Hello and welcome to under the skin. With me, your host and friend Russell brand. The person we're talking to TIM poll this week, you know tim pool is, is journalist activist and one of the biggest political youtubers right now he got four youtube channels and a subscription model site called TIM caste dot com. You should subscribe today his contents great he became known for live streaming or during the two thousand and eleven occupy wall street protests. Jan we've been doing, I'm back away after a week in switzerland and island and island. You did a lot travel here. How was it good. I been home, yet a bit lacheneur a wandering vagabond here that you like that. Sometimes I mean looking for its not moving. You sometimes crave the calm of just domestic peace here, just lying there. What is where you just lie. I'm a bed and maybe in the sofa

didn't just moved from soft bed. That's it! That's your domestic life saving drugs know what type of drugs, because, among other things, it won't ones can guess for drugs and the presence drugs. Are you live on anti depressants than you and me wondering leg, surprise at the fact that what the present now then we learn any trick trap bites. I know, but I bumped into a fun in dublin. While I was sitting on my own because what happened, I was sitting there having some wine and pasta yeah on the outside cause dumping, trying to be fancy yeah, If someone came up when jenny- and I went oh and it was that guy who submitted the question for ask me anything- the irish guy who talked about the limitations are described

instantly in different languages. Harry ooh yeah, he said he's irish is a yeah and how did the track go yeah. It was okay. I wasn't sure it was a bit weird to be someone walking up to me initially Did you send a chemistry jan? Did you fancy a trick? trap that with his then govern them, so large and that you are considering become in the third world in a through even circuits, hindering everything it here. nothing clearly, a third way, other something you're, not I think you are usually cycle yeah, that's not nice! Why don't you go? Well, this dating site. I tried it doesn't work for me. I've tried them for years. I've been on them on and off for ten years on, any profit dates. Look, I think you know proper date when

it's not proper? Do you need me to help you do I can tell what it'll help is you look gay on one of those good ones, not the ones that focus solely on sex? one on the boy hand, another hang for it. Why are you a brave man like a version of prostitution, everything's aversion. After tea. I don't want a man for someone to may be much of a not totally not paying for that you're paying our western people janet. yeah. This is luminary This is a model for colleagues. They don't get ghost advised the pod gases. Not I've already present with very present here. This is one thing: is you pay for one of the high quality once a year with people their serious, not hook up She looked up at anyone. Y all should be a third anyway. You couldn't

if me, the voice, do in some way. You look, you know, I'm a family, maybe I'm a man with cash. You didn't have to go on a dating. That's right, of course not. I was, day enough, anyway was now I was famous. Yet This is the same kind of like me very famous. There was a bit like a gentleman it's trying to get more like, but not even more like, but now I'm friends with them and then on his and the girl, that's great. But what I look for Jim. You the partner I've told you I want, but you, if he's getting to know farming out, the famous possibilities shows farming side like that is my dating, did not know we're falling out when drawing up the match maker of war or sex pig or

No, I'm a girl, you did. They just started images. You know, I don't like a static image. What are you like? A static image between her got started. It can do nothing. It doesn't appeal to me: I've never known anyone. You are stuck you like a slough vulgarity as I've moved my hands too much abused by a calorie. That is a miracle you say slender don't quite fit, and today you look like a character setup. You didn't listen geringer, like a cat, like you provide gas that was banned decanter What have you got the wrong turns of gorgeous play. compliant? You won't hear it. I will put the kinds of golf owen, the good use of a single. Why, this day time now well listen to the shops before we

the great marble go too far, Korea says I wish I'd been nearly early. I listen to the first episode today. How relevant it was. Thank you go back, listen to all of them came in the liver. Now. Was it I was it that guy genetics now the first episode of, under the current case, no perfect, professor rather than sulky away. He was good there. There are much more academics. In other words, it will we get porter the shower, MR my somebody, spiritual paypal. Sometimes it's more of what might be described as pundits to the right youtube. Is his I'd I'd like to get this guy since I like it when we have a spiritual woman on time. Why? Because everyone technically is as fair as a woman, Maybe you should they when talking about your journey

We always don't let your journey so can we have a year were an answer? Comes across a good impression of major economic drew back and I likes drugs. I thought I would solve everything, but it doesnt without fail day georgia. That wouldn't have been, I won't show it up to date. You know, I probably won't. Do it. That's prostitution. nothing's happened of it Your journey eventful, Jan everyone says it's eventful, who just people general what site round journeys of mine is right. In my silence, a proper le is no shame indeed, I can't deal this message and then I think, and then I forget they exist I'll help you. You're gonna, be me on updating out. I'm not gonna value of improve you sign up

a normal one day now, app not for sleazy, hookups right and then, Well, let's get you a nice. Sixty man from war. A lover of partiality Now I know they have to be landed, you're, a nice slender thoroughly and tall slender man and dublin? Who will ugly elder porcelain defenders to live in his life, their use, locking the door. Then he went off an income man, I've been niche and I've I've coached lot of people. My mind, a fancy, this block and I went. I did it for what it is open and just passed the ball over the last minute as our continent? I did all of the work and then went nick. I may is you re still together when I was less of the fate of innovative repair, maybe they they had said anyway. Name are ever more. My science me that was good. What you did

is it going to do a thing like earlier life, finite, more lively, and then, if you don't mind, if I were sexier marry, miss mamma, it does a red chair secondly, those factual apologizing, meaning. Then you may see annex anyway for good okay. So look here's told mohan bit more of a compliment, just want to reach out and give my appreciation for you and that ridiculous irish person he she just put Hibbert jenny about the banner the begin every show as we pumped up for the car I'd make a payment for copyright on relax into the sea have begun every year. I blah blah blah, have a coffee. Sorry, I make it a habit when I have a long journey through the country in Victoria, Australia, where I live. Your keema provides a lovely warmth in a woven between the contentious topics. You discuss be a guest on the show thanks a lot of people like the band to cancer. Yes,

John, is your conversation with the emma gilchrist was awesome. I thought so too rigid. You certainly have to. Let me know when you speak again yet again and again: I call on again burgundy. Why wouldn't I You didn't say: do you write? I didn't speak so on my mind, those keenest relief like an earth, nor I may take it from this. We subject matter closed a meal I also get quite a bit synchronise when listen to a podcast ps. I get stabbed with pins on a regular basis, or at least the physical experience of it. That's interesting might keep up the good work. so jenny and there s the team is very encouraging and inclusive. Wasn't it hey? If you listen to me, the noise is available to you on luminaries, guided weekly, meditation more. We can do this week, Jen on about now being here think not looking to go on

I not gonna like it obviously like to some. I'm not gonna lie being okay, learning to be alone be alive. Is it I am that painting that's one of the issues people have and they meditate they don't like sitting down on the road, What did you have? A methodical learning, sir pay for see the lazy free, wise and trot, authorise landmine on these, though that have been caught up the bumble? A no vote, I don't know what they are. Only one is now a married man, we want a good run, Annabel limbo, the relationship of lumber sees dumbo. Bumbershoot and, as is possible, although I have posted by past

bumpo why you're all go. Spend review can stop nine year old girl ro girls, anyone who saw wash, presumably all boys bumble boys of their own. When there's a lot of boy up point, that's the way to do it in it. They a gay man here gloves are off. Alright, let's get you settled down, I'm like. Maybe you don't want to be sure that maybe you want to be a wandering shaman, the shaman. You could be begin. Something's wrong with you. I've listened to about the noise on this platform also remember to come and see my tour, particularly in coventry, I'm really trying to shift those tickets in court because coventry, I guess what it is, is they furloughed everyone? Now core shift lt Do the ivy letting covered publishing a further on an ice crowds of warwick word university

Companies that get your tickets there come see. All rusty will be grateful to see you met. I'm took talking about myself in the foot person mailing list sign up to my mailing list. I've already told you to do that and check out my youtube. Videos that'll be a good one from this. Outside the TIM pole. Unless some go buns ryan, I covered legislation and regulation, Afghanistan or that kind of stuff you're. What got anything else drafting and note that where's this guy now set come and see me to feel tomorrow night. I could filled tomorrow night. I'm bet like I've done, a skinny filled, wasn t what and when turn is right in a low janus, only white reign in asia in one I'm feelin tells you did I deserve it. I didn't. I d, you said you just know put blank. I prefer not to further cuts in my mine work for a wouldn't I'll, take back it'll we may Bam meditation took give for spiritual techniques that are already take your my journey, sir,

food is an example. Gallantly trying to achieve equality with the annihilation of category nor successful. That's exactly right! We're in this era where it turns out. We were never works beneath the surface of the people. We admire the ideas that the finance on the history and welcome to Russell brand and tim pool thank you for coming on under the skin. Thanks for having me, I guess what people be interested in hearing forget them for a moment. What I'm interested in hearing is how you ve navigate it your your journey at, as is described at least from the outside, from what was perhaps regarded as a conventional, Liberal left his position to wherever it is. You are now and you think, but part of this migrate, erics process that you ve,

the gun is not about you and changing your own, changing political views, but something more complex around the kind of this of erosion of those taxonomy say something strange happening in the political landscape, something like two something those to do with ruthlessness, something this to do with performance, something this to do the loss real connection. I think it's tribalism. I think a lot of my politics, kenyans have stayed relatively the same, although on the second amendment, gun rights have become much more proponent of the right to keep and bear arms a lot of my positions protein. programmers healthcare, I'm I'm! I will say this: I'm ro a green new deal, and then I see the green new deal. You know from a cause, and it's not what I expected it to be. So in terms of where I fall ideologically. It say rather left libertarian position the issue is, I suppose, when you look at the amount,

political landscape and in many western countries similarities you predominantly have kind of a right, libertarian a somewhat right, authoritarian and left authoritarian, those very very few true left libertarians, and so I think that's confusing to a lot of people, especially If the people who will find themselves more right, leaning, more in favor of free market capitalism and like maybe like right, libertarian, is a more of a capitalism. They don't quite understand how you can a libertarian, but also be somewhat left, leaning, a lot of people online who like to claim their left, leaning but for some reason they defend violence against others, they defend state mandates. Are they a really good example of this? b. We saw anti fascists attacking people who opposed state mandates, which is I mean strange for someone who claims to be on the anarchist or libertarian side, not to say add to that. The minutes are right or wrong. I mean I personally disagree with them, but I'm saying just in this capacity to see the people

to be on the side of the individual freedoms and liberty. Fighting people in defence of a state mandate seems to be antithetical to what our position is supposed to be So for me, I'm always just like. Ok, how do we protect the individual and maximize civil rights and equality of opportunity for the effort for people? sure that you have a chance to to flourish, pursue happiness live your life and in that I do think there gotta be some collective cooperation. However, you can't force people at gunpoint to do it. That would be authoritarian, so it becomes inherently challenging and then you know think it's hard to describe. You know how I end up with kind of earth. local biases. I suppose I have you. No, I quite frequently ragged dammit rats, Aragon, republicans, but not as much, and I think it has to do with the cultural control and united left. When I look at

democratic party: they they win, they win an onlooker. Republicans, don't do anything! You know the establishments republicans weak? I do and a whole lot enough. so. I do not, however, want to rent too much, but I think ultimate, I'm trying to find a way. I think, when comes to everything I see politically, it's always an issue of is the some kind of authoritarian system you know suppressing, were on and oppressing someone's rights. I think very often we see with the what is typically referred to as the mainstream. More establishment left their relatively pro authoritarian And then, when you look at I don't I don't necessarily the establishment right, I guess we call the republican party same exact thing as far as I'm concerned, but then you have, the populists and in their tends to be

some agreement. I guess opposing authoritarian dogma, cancel culture supporting free speech, and these are things on four, so I kind of find myself in this area. Even if I don't agree on political issues with them, you know a bunch of things to say tim like one is that there's this critique that I heard of lichen, so seven ease like sexually over punk. Ah, there was saying like that: ashamed, then, because of the kind of political culture and the way that the be there are that time lined up that there was something essentially leftist about these particular types of all work, but now that the culture shift aid and the left has become more authoritarian and, to some degree, puritanical the the person whose offerings crew isn't that business net, not necessarily any in tick integrity? Connection between these ideas, all Adam cut, the english film maker who's been have alot.

Beside him and adjust the door him, I think he's. Brilliant. He and I have talked a lot about the left and, of course, Even in this last half century, you couldn't char how it everything for necessary. Is that your end? That tim, like it, sounds like set of some robot overly, has been allows it Alex stop. it was out. You allow legs in your house, Yes, every those without merits stirred her That was no. It was my reminder to do your show, because when upon a little early and site, god I had it set for for now, but yeah. As I do rather than show tonight, That is what I was saying as I was saying, but the most by doing so, because I that your eggs, causing unnecessary authority like much of the left there like I'm. So why why you know? control how the traditional constituency of the left has been about.

No speaking black about uk politics by feel like there is clear comparisons like this happen that unity for four for clean and have tony blair so popular centuries, business or in affable, charming leader that didn't really offer much in the way of changing, and I feel it was happening culturally ever since then. Is that that that that the populist voices of the right of gained a lot more traction with working people, regardless, broadly speaking, regardless of race, and religious identity by, in particular in my country, you might say, like white working class people open, we again like thinkers racy saw of irrelevant. Maybe this division around these I'm sure this thousands and thousands of divisions- if we look for him, but the idea now that labour law a never. Our version of the Democrats has any

of more roll emotional spiritual connection with working people is risible. It has become a kind of em cultural measure, polar earn. Ideologically logically lead in some areas thought towards which I personally so sympathetic by feel that the problem that I believe, is that these totemic issues have become not or not solely symbolic, but are actually I stretching from the fundamental purpose of a leftist police The organization of supporting the rise of ordinary people often have abandoned the idea. I think they have abandoned the idea and I think ordinary working people know we then not stupid. I recognize you they see while the relationships love through the media and these parties and where these people gotta go who's going to make a home for them who's going to speak for them. I I have no idea, you know

we had Dave smith, the comedian. Who may be running for the libertarian party in the u s, and he is It is a bit of a conservative values. A lot of people that we have on our show will have to some day conservative values or be politically moderate, and we agree on the freedom is we agree on the individual liberties, the civil rights we agree. The problems we see with the critical race praxis in schools and so on, I'm kind of like hey. You know I'd I'd love to negotiate with someone on my view of fixing the healthcare system, meaning it I've. we should have and united states something similar to what most countries have, which is a universal basic level of coverage, supplemented by private insurance and there's no conversation for that. there. You are in the dogmatic corner of the authoritarian left or, if you believe in freedom, then you're gonna be with people who say knots, gotta be private. And so for me, it comes down to what I think is more important. Well, the way

I usually describe it is at the very least with in a libertarian system that is based on more free market enterprise. I can still create microsoft and my system with my friends who believe in this, At the very least, were you not protecting individual individual rights? I wish you know like. Oh, I remember I did a commentary on the green new deal before it was announced when everyone was talk, about this idea of investing into green energy and infrastructure. I was all for it. I said this is fantastic. This is this could be a great thing where we we create. You know jobs, we tell you, know our side. Hey we're gonna, do something good that will make us energy independent. I think conservatives can get behind that

and then, when it came out, it had a lot to do with critical race theory, critical race, applied principles, free free hospital free for university, and I think that's the kind of thing where it's kind of a bait and switch so on the policy issues. I just feel like they're not talking to me, and so I just default to okay freedom and liberty. Right that that's that's the the best I can do for now. Do you accept then in terms of any kind of political fulfilment, and by that I mean the ability to live in a community that representative of your values and to express yourself as an individual's you want to that. You'd have to to some degree separate yourself and your community from they centralize structures and if, as you seem to be suggesting, you talk less of a cover up, you solely, use that phrase and an end. Does that indicate that perhaps the future for politics is beyond these central

asian models and among our sympathy to his people, the asylum. What difference does it make this theatre They you know them this bypass anthea session. We evolve bill these models that were kind of created it and go and representative democracy was more relevant. I am worried that we're drifting into hyper partisanship. You know, I think centralisation is always the way to go there. Be some central kind of agreement, maybe overarching constitution practice to put it where we're like. Okay, so these are these. Are the rules we're gonna use to engage with each other, but we disagree so I've. That's why? the? U s is actually great the states, the cities, the locality they each have their own implementation are version, but it's it's hyper centralizing and the problem is, you can look at it with media the more we will whose local, media and united states, because they Kansas in themselves in this new attention economy we

see the rise of the new york times. Building a massive subscription platform. We should the Washington post the wall street journal and then happens is for the average american, their hearing about national issues and less local issues. Now, for one, this can breed corruption at a local level, which the local levels where words at the federal levels is often my opinion, a distraction for for a lot of reasons. But then you end up with corruption at the local level. you end up with people dissociated from their own communities, and then you end up with hyper polarisation and centralisation, so the fear I have with this is You now, if you take a look at when Joe Joe Biden came out a few months ago and sad that we may need to have more more lockdown, more restrictions. This was at a time when tat, in Florida had been releasing their lockdown. They ve been easing the restrictions and mass mandates and all that stuff, and so when Joe Biden comes out and speaks saying those things here. You're. Not talking to read states,

and so now you you already have a situation where, over the past year, many I think it's like half of republicans, don't view Joe Biden as legitimate, like a third think that he didn't even win the election and so these people are already feeling like they're, not a part of the system when the present comes speaks in a way that very much so speaks only one side of the country. These centralisation is giving way to a splitting down the middle of some sort out or no, ultimately, what it would look like. But that's what happens when you go from decentralized communities with a weak central structure where they can indicate to centralizing everything and then factional ising. I think the whole system is gonna implode on itself, And I think a lot to do with the internet. I think it has a lot to do with our social media and the attention economy. I don't know what the solutions are. To be honest, you know people have a right to free speech. You used to like say more

thank you, your he used to say more river freaked me at least is as far as I am aware, that the felt that I think I guess enough Data from America was on the brink of some kind of civil, war and I still do dear. Yeah there's, but their theirs in data that I think, maybe you know evolved, that opinion billy? There was a? U gov data that show. I think it was of that there's five regions in the united states. There is the northeastern this, the southern there's, the heartland, there's that the west in the mountain regions and in each. Then there was a large plurality of people who wanted to secede from the union, inform their own regional governments. Essentially, if you, if you normalized for population in each by each state. I did the math. You end up with thirty seven point, two percent of the: u s: population wanting the country to break apart, that's

That's that's massive, because opposition to of a balkanization as they have united states is comparable to that in the third So you have about a third of people who are like. I dont care. You have about us a little bit The third sang shudder down and you about a third saying: nano keep it as it is and so when it comes to the yes or no vote, the people who abstained abstained in then you'll get what fifty fifty. So I don't exactly know what it would look like that. I think people have this misconception about what civil really means. So don't take into account that we are in what's referred to as fourth and fifth generational era of warfare, We don't necessarily use kinetic force to win wars. We use psychological operations, propaganda manipulation, and so, depending on how you wanted to find it look, we had a guy get shot the chests by an anti fascists after a trump rallying point. And we just had a shoot out in portland just a couple of days ago. It may the the kinetic aspect of any kind of civil conflict may keep itself constrained to these left and right,

measures in various cities that its simmer down a little bit. We're in kind of a low year has politics. In a week we just gotta for presidential election. I mean you look now with visa cyprus, I was young and I see a cat and I and we will have the audits in arizona. You know I I just talked with sea. and in the other day, and he's talking about audits in in in georgia and wisconsin and michigan, and all these states. This is persistent. These people aren't backing down, they don't view Biden as the real president and so If you have that rising sentiment, I'm not saying that we're gonna, see you know what one thing bill mar said was that their couldn't be a civil. Or because the mason dixon line would go through grammars kitchen, a reference to the london defied, the north north south? But I think that's americans have this issue where we view we view conflict or or circumstances or concepts through an american ones?

They don't seem to understand that the world exists and the spanish civil war, for instance the russian revolution We take a look at what happened in the: u s with state versus state, north vs south, and it's very unique to the united states based on its structure. This massive union of different jurisdictions, but you take a look at the spanish civil war and you can see pockets erupting of different factions declaring different regions. So again when, when I say civil war, its iron up, I've tried to to to veer away a little bit from saying civil wars simply, but because I think people dont understand it. They assume I'm saying that California has got to declare war on taxes are something which I dont mean that, but you could see different factions popping up ultimately you could see factions forming allegiance. Is our alliances with each other, and Ultimately, I think when people are already ready to kill each other are already wishing for the death of each other on social media. I think What work we're gonna go into a psychological conflict sets that's what of fit generation

warfare, as a reference to manipulating some online through using fake accounts to convince them that a certain ideas, popular Fourth, generational warfare is more, is, is similar, but does involve physical conflict and things like that: propaganda, ops, false flags, etc. I'm looking at twitter men and I'm seeing people celebrate death wish for death o overtly. These are verified. Blue checkmark, high profile accounts, the loading and wishing for death. That that's you know been escalating so I'll I'll put it this way. I'll put it in simple terms. In two thousand and eighteen, we saw proud boys, antifa, right wing left wing groups clashing, and it was some of the most violent conflict. I'd ever seen. You know in the us, I'm not I'm not that old, I'm thirty five, but I had been at occupy wall street. I had seen you know, anarchist, antifa and stuff like that I saw people throwing a maid at old women eyes. I saw improvise explosive devices, I wouldn't rate as too dangerous, but dangerous mortar shells being thrown

it was twenty eighteen, and so I was I was that that's when I started saying if this continues to escalate, because we have already seen the culture war bubbling options. Gamer gained twenty thirteen. If this continues where at the level of kinetic skirmishes of physical violence, then I I don't see why people will back down when they're being threatened. This way and the police aren't intervening they're going to get angry or they're going to spread more media they're going to challenge each other. More so and the violence will continue to escalate. so. I've had a few people challenge me on the notion saying that I was completely wrong to imply that there could ever be a civil war in united states, and this is backing of twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty first I'll say that I first bring this up because there was an article, I believe it was in the atlantic where they said that they pulled dozen or so, or a large number of national security experts who said that they felt the second civil war in united states was probable, ranging from some estimates of thirty percent some

Ninety per cent in I see an article like that, and I I take that expert opinion, apply it to my own experiences and come to an agreed but then we see you know what we see a princeton professor coming out giving an interview which, which was published in the hill saying we are in a cold civil war. There's a rush oligarchy, said the same thing in his years ago. So I remember as a reason I had last year during the election cycle, you know talking about the prospects of what would happen if trump did win reelection. What would happen if Biden won and that I feel that a civil war is possible, Afterwards, you now give one example: we had a guest who kind of ambushes me when we start to show any said so less utopia, civil wars coming you said that people violent you said things are in a break down. Well what happened, and I simply

founded on January six. A large group of trump supporters broke their way into the capitol building to shut down the electoral college. The electoral college vote and they have their response, was oh yeah. That is kind of crazy. Isn't it if, if I were to tell you that in two thousand and eighteen based off seeing this violence that you know, eight hundred to one thousand people would break their way into the: u s, capitol and and and shut down the process by which we we formalized our president. I don't think people would have believed me. They would have just said you're crazy. So now we're dealing with the many of these defendants from the capital riots are in solitary confinement, their their their supporters are saying this is political imprisonment. These people are being mistreated. We just had Owen shroyer of infowars one of our alex Jones. He I believe he works for Alex Jones and he was

arrested. Apparently, they said that he was standing on the steps which was trespassing so now there's another high profile arrest. Many people on the right view this as the Democrats just trying to crush out any trump supporters, overt acts of political oppression against you know his against them. Idea and their ideas, and I see that as where we ve gone from the culture war being an online battle between you know, left and right or or credit woke ism or whether we want to call it populism, magua, whatever it eventually bubbled over and to physical violence in the streets, which we saw for an extended period of a few years I think ultimately culminating in. I think his name's aaron danielson getting shot twice in the chest as he was walking from. He was leaving a trump rally: the sky with the the black lives matter tattoo, on his neck shot. Him twice killed him odd, then that then you get the obviously trump's government went and hunted that guy down and killed him so

that the pope, the political violence is here. I know it's been worse in the past, but it can. I ask a lot of people. I ask you know older people come on the show. Have you ever felt it this way with the hyper polarization, the escalation of violence? Nation say no, and so where we at now. Just this past weekend, a group of right wing individuals, trump supporters, were trying to put on what they call the summer of love. Anti fascists show up and threw smoke bombs and objects. Then you get there wing groups that new that would happen, shut up, shut up for the fight, then engage with them, and then you get roving street battles throughout portland, where the police say they refuse to intervene. and then to people end up in a shoot out. People are docking hitting the ground. Boats are flying, what I I wondered, how long it would take for us to get to the point where boats are flying where at that point now, luckily nobody was shot, but they give understand too, for one. Maybe it all ends right now, maybe that was the

people saw the gun battle. You know it was a shoot out between two people. Importantly say this has gone too far. We gotta stop I post I don't believe that, because we saw charlottesville and even after charlottesville, which is several years now. It's still happening and people are still fighting, and I think people made are realised when you read the history of either the spanish civil war, the russian revolution or weimar germany, it's not like it happened overnight when well read history, their reading. This can this this condensed version. Where it say. You know that the Boston tea party happened. The Boston massacre happened, americans declared into and but allow these people dont understand. The american revolution was twenty years long, that these Famous moments like the tea party in the massacre were years apart from each other. we read history. We think it happened like the next week so so what I see is now twenty twenty one speaker gun battles in portland. That's that's insane. We ve got

Joe Biden's approval rating among democrats, of course, eighty five percent among republic disapproval, among republicans ninety five percent, but among independent we are starting to collapse as well that the and the fervor. We saw against donald trump, eighty one million votes, and I I genuinely believe I don't. I don't think they are. I don't believe the fraud stuff. I think I think people anti elected trump. They said no to this man and they came out, So what happens in two thousand and twenty two when republicans take the house back in the? U s, what happens in twenty twenty four when you get a trump or to santas the hyperpolarization, the tribalism is not the escalating. I wish it was, but the the the mental values and moral frameworks of both parent factions are so divergent. At this point, I dont think does abridge crossing over a good example, is Actually this story, right now a journalist was attacked by anti fascist and I believe it was in portland there's a video of it you can have. watch the video them calling her a slut shoving her

sprang with paint and and and making her and right now. If you go on twitter, all of left twitter says it was actually the problem. There they are so tribal list on and on their worldview. They will not accept fault for their own side and obviously I think the right has its faults. I think the problem who shop to fight are causing you know equal troubled to a certain degree, and people have just have their sides that they want to fight them. They're, not interested in what is true there interested in what they believe and there it shouldn't confirmation by us. I think, when independent voters are swinging away from binding which they are and they might vote. Republicans we didn't well, I think, solves any the problems. You'll end with a massive reaction on a scale much worse than we saw twenty twenty with the riots, because people are entrenched. You know that I want to back down from what they believe to be true or their worldview, and I think I just one final thought: unless a simple way to explain the difference, I do not think he will

per se a large movement of truck supporters embracing critical re supplied principles, critical praxis you see that you know that the left will obviously be very in favour of their vision of equity and equal outcomes and mean a racial quotas. The right won't do that, and so long as you have two governments, you know fighting over control of one centralized system where they want to implement their moral framework. I think it ultimately ends up with some kind of implosion, Well, too, I mean you said a law I mean starting with the stuff. He was saying about, like the breakdown of catchy sausages. British thing you have to experience. Sorry, my cats eating my bangers. I apologize that. The first be said about the breakdown of local medium and how that leads to polarization

the herbs of a obviously, I suppose, literally a kind of dislocation- sense that you're not connected to place- and I can say that like many that, though, this of the way that the public conversation is conducted requires also facilitates at least ongoing. Escalate and I'm like you and it seems as well that there's less and less room for compromise for coming together and acceptance. I feel like that when we live in the in an abstract and conceptual mind and in a sense, culture is an abstraction. Is this an expression on when people are black vote in on beliefs and fight in on beliefs with it that way it becomes a sort of a battle? The the

or of ideals that may not actually even particularly relate to lift experience in the same way as a localised culture. Might you know, I keep feeling strongly that I agree. I agree with you that I don't see how there is a solution on Darth. Models and systems that are currently in place, they seems abysses heightening that first said that pressure cooker. Is he in up and not an see, a point of compromise? I am what I find serve both comic and tragic that is the way trying to live within models for which we are not evolved, win not evolve to deal with the amount of information to be deluged with data about various perspectives from across the globe and how those past perspire

gives conflict with our own and to have those notions of conflict continually stout, and I feel that a great deal of the territory being fought for in this ongoing cultural war is kind of ultimately irrelevant and the function that is performing. If I, if I could look at it from a utilitarian perspective, What is it doing means that many people's time is occupied by feeling that they are under threat from this other, whom, in actual real practical terms, could be made irrelevant if we lived within different systems of governance like this, if you want guns have and if you guys, want to raise your children. This way raise your chosen. This way view want to do that, but light that why We are continuing to pretend that a centralized.

rocco model needs to be the basis for this, but because that for me becomes this of the battle line upon which much of this is forward as a big challenge here. I've, long thought about this, there's a lot of libertarians who say: listen stick this year the united states is set up in a way so that you can have your rights in your state and if your states Yea guns you're good to go. If a different state says no guns, then we'll congratulations. You can live there. If you'd, like the challenges first, I agree. I think that if we kind of let people live and let live. This is a very libertarian ideal to have you know if you want to live in a state that allows you to do certain things by means of california. Wants to legalise marijuana on, say, Kentucky doesn't, will then go live in California. Like pot. The problem is civil rights. When I looked to the civil rights era and the fight that my family had to fight, might my grandparents, their relationship was

literally illegal under. U s miss education laws, you couldn't even cohabited and when the supreme court said you must respect the rights of people of of any re, sir, you know creed or nationality or or sex, and then it wasn't until three years after civil rights were one. We got the supreme court ruling for loving the virginia which allowed my my grandparents to stop running away. So that the challenges, I think, I think its correct, that the united states, ultimately supreme court, said for the for the entirety of the country. You cannot description on the basis of interracial, marriage and things like that. But that means a centralized authority rained down morality on everyone else. It was during a civil rights area. A lot of the arguments were, you know when they were arguing for aggregation, they said it's a private business. They can do what they want and there's a big chance. ginseng, while I dont want to IMF infringe on someone's right to life. Liberty is present pursuit of happiness if they want to run their business as they see fit. That's typically how the libertarian parties

this. Is it but I don't. I don't agree with that, and that means as a bit of a serious moral conundrum in weather. You are actually for a principle decision or your personal morals and much as I can say personally, I am in favour of protecting the individual's rights. I then to the very obvious question. While then do you think the government should mandate a business, allow black people or international couples or gay couples to use their establishment? And to that I say well, yes, I do. I think I have a simple logical explanation for it for my view on this, you know if you are in, the commons utilizing public space facilitated by taxpayer dollars, you should not be able to. You know this accommodate somebody simply because you don't like the way they look. It's arbiter, but you can ultimately say gotta my store if their screaming or something like that. But then people come back with the sea. You want the government too

They your morality over other people and, unlike yeah, that's tough. If We were to decentralize to a great degree. Would we end up with racism and bigotry and all that stuff massaging Ian If we centralized too much do then just have the government shutting down individual, image reality with some proscribed minos, supreme morality, and I got want I of want that either. so that's why I'm usually just like men of novel. isn't it in your example, you know lots of the racist, in refusal to allow people of different races to you know so of the use various facilities. Of course, like ms and visual agree with you, it's just given that we are seeing the results of centralisation? How it kind of plays out my hope, is

and these are naive on- is that the cases of extremism by philip- and you know I feel I have only just revise some saying it- that much of the conflict. it's conducted in the online space is already somewhat ephemeral due to the nature of the medium within which it takes place now and a note, as as you have done over the course of this conversation, the disparity between this, the order, wine vitriol and the real life violence, even though that is to use your term. There is, of you know, kinetic conflict or a ton of learn and be using from now on by the way I've enjoyed that and but so my sentences is the law of that from the idea that people are defending something that easy ineffable. While the idea of note this issue, I am, this is how I want to leave. I keep returning to the idea that we have been a primate evolved to living groups of a couple of hundred people and our poor out. The hardware can't cope with how we're being

I invite you to live. Furthermore, though, I have this deep optimism about human beings and I I would also love to get where your soul will miss your spiritual or moral perspective. Stands him by spiritual, then obviously means some sort of theological dogma. I mean is of a general sense of values around compassion, kindness and will unity oneness. So ironically, my belief in decentralization and empowerment of the individual and empowerment, direct empowerment of communities is under and by the idea that actually we are one inch by inch of somewhat metaphysical consciousness or into terms I imagine you could take a guess at by looking at a few of my tattoos might be it a kind of vague notion of oneness and this being a sort of a temporary exe should have this kind of one lesson regardless. Who cares if we leave, as if we are one it? My lend us a certain amount of compassion in our dealings with one another, my thoughts, my point, I feel that they'll be,

a few people that would actually go for the forlorn racist, no black people or why people are gay people were not selling europe kite cause your guy. Neither these incidents have become so isolate aid that we could deal that we could yield it. I say in general, you are free to govern your own community. A however you want these are our universal principles that we would consider mandate under the what was formerly known as the united states. Equally, between all people, no violence towards one another da da da da to have a basic. You know ten mound, ish sort rubric, But why, within that, if there is a whole group of people say we only one black people living near, we only one why people even if occur, no, I mean. Do you yield that, in order to just break down this ongoing thing that oh Molly facilitates going. Centralized, however, is the states, power or corporate power or more nefarious variously than either the interwoven.

Interlocked ongoing heizer other is dominated us for many years, and every now and not not gonna, be slain as long as we we're bickering about comparatively small issues, although I acknowledge their significance that the fracture of the city. You know if we were to totally decentralized as degree where we sat govern your community as you see fit. I think ultimately you'll end up with more conflict, which is it's really hard to navigate, so unexampled would be if what about race. You know it could literally be hey. Everybody here were big fans of you know the cowboys. Then another community says we're big fans, the packers, and so they say we only want cowboys vans living here, eventually that to view those who out more outside of their community as others, and what I, what I've tippit.

experience when it comes to protesters and police and basically anybody gangs they will not read out their own. So during occupy wall street, for instance, there was some assaults that occurred. Some women were sexually assaulted and the official Well, I guess decision from occupy wall streets facilitators and was that they would not reported to the police because they didn't want negative attention from outside forces whereas my attitude is lucky. You gotta report this report, this person of the cops they carrying otherwise there and do it. There are more people. and so my concern, as you know, you don't cry to the. What do they say? Don't you don't cross the blue, the blue line, the police, they don't snitch on each other and then you have the the activists saying snitches get stitches. There is an unwillingness among in communities to internally police themselves because they have a unified goal or they do want to cause harm to their ability to effect change or a few resources accrue resources,

Oh this is this, is it this is the challenge I find myself in typically, you know why I sit down and I really try to think about all of what the saloon These are what the problems are. What will happen if we take this action? What do we get? Ok, what would have tried this action? What do we get and then ultimately, unlike man, I wish I could. I was arrogant enough. I consider myself to be aired. yeah. I guess, but about arrogant enough to think I know how to fix all these problems and it's really easy to point out problem. Was in solutions, and so I guess I just knew no typically comes out contrition. If, if we're, if we're, decentralized and then you community aid in community be separating each other, refusing to police themselves internally and then eventually bolt than a says: hey some,

from your side, robbed us and they said well we're not going to do anything about it, because it's our kid and then people fight with each other or recognize that one of the challenges, of course, with trying to provide alternatives, is you also have critiqued in the abstract? As they say, soviet sports are follow. Ups of what we call football, you call soccer, unlike us, have found that famous managerial edict that you know like the the one of a football manager few years ago, of the national teams at the teams. I pick have to play. You know if you're, fine, you'll get your teams, you know we should have played him at the back. This person should have been played further forward.

It should have been wider. You all hypothetical none of it matches my teams play, he said, and obviously this is true in in the organization of any system or server or even from fantasizing imagining how life might be lived, different name and, of course it's. You know, it's unlikely that we will be replacing this sort of fast approaching armageddon with a near perfect utopia. But while I get a sense of is this is what I most strongly feel that there are certain ecological imperatives that must be observed. Certain pella the economic imperatives or are, in particular with regard to inequality that need, gently to be addressed, and we must have an understanding of what we are. Basically what we all mechanically, even though I think many of those models are quite out, they ate regardless of robots or even eight, is no model. I suppose it's a history, but are looking at

What are we evolved to do and as as long as we are living in systems that are taking it like that, we're not speaking personally, as a so of you know from my position as a recovering addict for, like I'm confronted with so much stimulation the mai, primal desires for procreation office, a status or wavery asia so continually provoked mobutu, culturally inane. Wisest of you know, of course. I know both of empirical thought. I feel that when I look at the life I lived as a kind of a life of devotion to a set of ideals that are palpably downloaded by my culture, become famous drug sex. All of these kind of cliches really- and I feel like yeah.

It's. How? How might these energies have been better directed? How would I have coped in a community that was connected to one another and nature that had a set of shared ideals that were living in the quarters to what you might call universal principles, although I recognize how strongly those ideas are contested and I'm just as superb bring this to like to slightly honing in on some of the things you've been saying to him when you were involved in occupy Know was august, probably acting in a movie in new york when you were probably down there, and I was sort of like being a movie star and stuff most popping down and visit in that encampment. You know, unlike fascinate, I've been involved in counter culture and protest. My whole life when I was a junkie when I was a kid, I was an app to have left wing protests and arrested several times for most of my frivolous and foolish involvement in such things and bobs fascinated by occupying our food. Something important was happening of all interesting rhetoric emerged.

May I feel, is interesting. The way they were, this not go syndicate lists of ideas of direct democracy, communication assembly. All of these ideas were fascinating in its taste, is heartening to hear about of the ordinary practices in an ordinary failings and crimes that human beings committed against each other sexual assault, violence, the kind of things we expect from human beings surprise. That resolution was not able to be reached. I'm surprised, I am not surprised really. That of the unwillingness to communicate with systems of justice that are already being were few it at its disappointing is disappointing. I just want to other insight. You forgive me from inside there of the EU have summit. You won't say you know, there's a lot of people want to defend the romanticized version of what occupy wall street was

Boy? Do they not like me because I'm effectively in a positive, though I never know, really consider myself to be aligned with some one based on tribal value? It's like are you? Are you? Are you a good person? Are you ready, correct occupy wall street was a microcosm of the macro chasm. That's what people, inside the camp called it, because as much as you know, your perception from the outside was of direct democracy. It was anything but there there were a group of people, they call themselves facilitators, and so they would choose who gets to speak in the in the general assembly and end by nature of that. You can't I have a true direct democracy if they would look at someone and say you know, based on our our system and our belief, you're not allowed to talk. Therefore, no proposals from you but I'll give you the really good example? as someone who is a friend of mine, I mean I'm friends with the people. I understand how humans are and how systems work. Someone donated a macbook to occupy wall street saying I hope this will help you guys organize

I was talking to one of the facilitators and you know I don't have any like administrative involvement simply just being there and talking with people was the extent to which you know I was involved. I was filming and things like that and I said, hey here's an idea. Why you put the computer on one of the tables, insecurity and then allow well to sign up for fifteen minutes of internet usage, so they can talk to their families. That way, everyone can utilise this this new computer and she said, but I need a computer I said well, I e out, but I mean this complete, was donated to the collective, not to you and she said yeah, but lot of work, I have to do so. I think I need it and I just when you whatever you know, I I I at it you know, I see these people saying that they want to do right and they don't buy. I genuinely I I really believe them that they're interested in some kind of new way of living, some kind of utopian world, because it's always been throughout. History is

people say I'm the only one who can save the people. I am the good guy. I must have the power and of course, whenever they get it, then up enough killing. Lots of people are imprisoning them or, at the very least, depressing certain traditions or rights or or it just as an end up working out the way they think it was. You know I would also my friends gives rise to work and fund raising for nonprofits. No matter what you do, you will hurt someone and help someone. because your actions are neutral for instance, I said when we go out here and we fund raised first greenpeace, because we're upset about the room forests being torn down There'S- union worker at a factory who makes toilet paper, who is being negatively impacted by our efforts to try and save trees, and, of course they would be mad at us in hate us saying that we are bad for trying to destroy their business.

and not truly understanding- and I certainly think there is a right wrong- I think some people are factually correct and some people are factually incorrect But if you don't even if someone is incorrect, they'll still feel like you're a bad person infringing upon their rights and your attacking them it makes it really really difficult to try and figure out a way to bring people together to actually solve these problems. In other, just go occupy wall street. I think, ultimately, what I'm ends up happening is. there, there initially worrisome right, leaning into well we're down there. They got they left because the structure of occupied didn't fit their world view in their way of living, notably the people who could sleep in the park were not those who were more free market, NEO, conservative or libertarian. They had so they had leave. But the people who didn't have jobs tended to be more freegan, dumpster diving. They said I have no problem sleeping in the park and I can because my food came from a dumpster,

and I don't mean that disparaging may literally at occupy wall street day, dumpster dived for food to give out to people if you're, okay with living that way, then you have an advantage in controlling a space like that, and thus the the the politics that come out of occupy wall street tended to be more of the critical race theory and socialist. You know alignment what you mean about critical. Can your distrust explain what critical race theory means to me, so I understand it there. Yes, so I it's it's a very, very complicated issue with two different views based on whether you find yourself in a politically left or right, the left tends to define it as a legal framework for investigating how race intersects with, I tend to view it as a reactionary movement by what out what we call identity arians, who oppose the civil rights movement so on the right

critical race theory typically is used as an all encompassing term for cancel. Culture, woke ness, re, spaced policies and things like that and its fairly nebulous as a lot of people who can recognize, there's something wrong with an anti terrorism, but I think it's not being laid out properly for most people and I think critical race theory, when not used in the correct factual sense can feed is the average person. So I took to give to give an example of my perspective on critical race theory. Is that to quote Derek bell, and our first quote Derek bell, then quit kimberly crenshaw, Derek bell, argued in favor of plessy vs fergus and which is the historic ruling in the united states from the eighteen hundreds that said, segregation was legal, so long as people were treated equally. I obviously oppose that ruling, but Derek bell. A prominent, critical race theorist is absolutely in favor of it and he's been since the nineties, or probably that the critical race theorists viewed civil rights in the united states as a trick,

it was described. To me when I was covering the ferguson riots in the baltimore rights, was that white liberals didn't like that black people had their own separate, but equal communities with prominence like black wall street? That's why you had the clan. They were democrats, that's why you had the arming of black wall street the tulsa massacre, and so ultimately, they decided the way to crush blackness was too the great them into a system where white people controlled politics and economics. This was that was circulated during the baltimore riots, where they sad segregation was a good thing. I disagree with that now what we're seeing in terms of occupy wall street and their application of critical race theory, which I would which is literally called critical race praxis, which is theory and practice, and then, Derisively referred to it as critical re supplied principles, because if the acronym crap they started I think that occupy wall street, like if your perceivable white, straight or mail, you are not allowed to speak

and thus you had members of the community or dedicated and hard working who are totally excised from from any kind of involvement. One guy I knew who was, I think, your spanish, but his fair complexion left crying because here yet I dedicated so much time and energy to you know to to the park and to the to the protests. And, finally, when he you know he kept trying to speak at the general assemblies and then ultimately, what they called the spokes councils they say progressive stack because you are a white male, you aren't. I speak sorry have a nice day and when you'd respond without actually I'm latino, they say: ok, well, you're, passing for white, so our decision stands you're not allowed to speak. They would create a list. I would say who would like to make a proposal everywhere their hand, and they say what we're going to do is going to allow you to speak based on your race, your gender, your identity, your sexuality, your religion, and so you'd literally to stand up and say hi, I'm

mixed race, high school dropout from the south side of chicago an atheist, and I would like to put my name my. I would like to speak. Okay, yeah, we'll put you at number three because of your your privilege. So that's that's what happens when you take the the ideas of critical race theory and an end into practice? You get this strange raced based identity areas on which, I did to terrorism is identity plus area nazism. You know a form of government and control and so that's what we're seeing now and that's what I I am one hundred percent opposed to, because I view it as reactionary if you're familiar with what reactionary means. It's a reference to the french from french revolution when v v monarchist. I suppose the anti revolutionaries reacted to the revolution and tried to stop it. Typically. Now

we use the word reactionary to say that you're pro status quo, I'm absolutely not in favor of the status quo, I'm in favor of universal healthcare, ending the war wars, total government form and discussions around term limits, and things like that in the u s. But when I look at democratic politicians, Joe Biden, for instance, and blood row wrought removing donald trump span uncritical race theory. What I see is an effort to return. Us too, were wine, the clock back before we. We we said no to an end to terrorism, what people need to understand is that identity. Base law has been the rule of the world since humans it emerged from the dirt or whatever in another. The case It has always been the first thing. People would sees your race for the most part, or your language. It was the identity you held, the english and french that each other, the irish and the english they hated each other, and then something magical happened in the united states when the founding

arguments and statements by brilliant individuals like frederick douglass rank so many americans that we must stand up for what we have written ourselves, that all men are created, equal and, of course, men, meaning humans, not even just males, and in nineteen sixty four, we ultimately decided the law cannot be based on your race and that may be one of the first time in the world, or I may make a bit of a nightmare. A marrow centric perspective, but one of the first times we have had a society say that your race is not relevant to the law will now what's happening. Is we had a good good couple decades? Obviously, the critical is the arrests kept captivity? Crenshaw Derek bell are really good examples and than their their subsidiaries. People like Avram candy, have to say no. We need to back law based on race ebro? and he is a really good example of the destruction of their policy. In my opinion, can do you has a very famous quote where he wrote in his book how to be an actor

he says that the only solution to pass discrimination is present discrimination and he said he he goes. Say that the only solution to present discrimination future discrimination this why see harvard, for instance, setting different standards for people who are asian or white or hispanic or black. To me, that's evil, I genuinely so the easiest way to explain it is with wet at harvard asian person needs to score thirteen hundred on there s eighty in order to get admittance, and they say it's because we have too many asians and my sponsors the complexion, the hair color. What does that have to do with the individual if you believe in those policies to the critical race, theorists or or the practitioners espouse the anti racist. Then I want you to be the one look into the eyes of the amount, born or or immigrant or whoever little

in child and say you are not allowed to go to an ivy league school because you look too much like them. It's an insane concept and so that's what they think they propose to bring back, Now that the interesting thing about you from candy, where I say hypocrisy, is his eye- energy is that any law that creates Spirit based on race is inherently racist, systemically racist. I dont completely disagree. There's dangerous things. You got it you gotta navigate and in an assignment like that, but now it what's happening in new york city with the vaccine mandates the least vaccinated population based on race, as the black community. I think only in the in the thirty thirty three percent, or so of the back many in europe vaccinated. That means the overwhelming majority of the black emily is barred from restaurants, gems, theatres, libraries, museums, basically, every pulse combination, whereas from Canada come out and say that deal the plaza has introduced systemic racism overnight. Not to mention that in that mandate,

only required to have a vaccine passport like your per year, proof of vaccination the excelsior pass? You also need a government issued photo idea. Now we ve been over and over again and united states that requiring I d for voting is racist. Minorities are typically unable, or in many circumstances, are more or less likely to be able to get an idea. If that's the case, Where are these critical race practitioners to come out and condemn what's happening in new york city? They don't do it. Instead, they just want to see they want to make money of books. They ago do a corporate seminars and when push comes to shove, when there is actually something that could challenge their tribe, that you know their tribal faction. They, the completely ignore it So so for me outside us to end on this. You know idea of quick grace theory. I'm

second generation mixed race. My my grandfather was white. You met my korean grandmother during world war two and they were forced to flee twelve different states in the. U s, due to its called miss agitation laws. It was illegal for them to be in a relationship and it was illegal them to even the live together. So my grandfather had to pretend that my grandmother was the maid and that my mother and her siblings, were that the children of the help, but eventually people in these states caught wind and realise that this was a loving family. Well, that's illegal, a prison. Worthy trespass. So my family had to flee. my mom grows up experiencing that and she said that you know billy with some the racism, with vietnam and stuff she's she's happy she's, half asian, so she experiences it. Now we get into my dad, who is also why My mom was half korean, I'm a quarter on the quarter korean a little bit, japanese, and once again you have my family. now. My data, my mom now living in a world where it substantially more acceptable. Still, when I was a kid growing up in chicago

we had white supremacist vandalized our home. They didn't like the fact that, even though my mom was mixed race. It's still a mixed race family with mixed race, kids, and so we got break through the woods We got to our you know our our address placard ripped off pamphlets about white supremacy and race, mixing littered on our on our property people breaking into our garage and the that bad. You know I suppose it is ultimately slow down. My mom told me, you know worry what they once they realize you act, white they'll be okay with it, they'll they'll realize you know we're not. You know, foreigners or something like that, which is a crazy thing to grow up experiencing. When I was younger growing up in this neighborhood, we had. I had a filipino friend I had a polish friend from Poland. I had a spanish friend. We had black friends because no, the area of Chicago eleven was was very diverse, metropolitan and you know I remember thinking to myself when I was a teenager at all that bad stuff it s not going to. Every day it happened. A handful of times, like those people are gonna, lose

because me at all my friends right here we're all different races. We skateboard together when we grow up we're gonna, say no to the division, no, to the race based everything and just be like people are people. Man and then I went occupy wall street and I got to expire and the overt racism that is critical re supplied principles, critical race, praxis and now I see this escalation, Donald trump tried banning critical race theory trainings, not by name, I don't think he's, explicitly that critical race theory. He said trainings through government contractors that will spared someone based on race or things like that, which is a violation of the law. The violation of nineteen sixty four civil rights act oh Biden reverses that decision, and now we're seeing more this implementation were seeing universities favouring this favouring people based on race. We had at the university of dearborn Michigan. They created whites only digital cafe, we are seeing I think it was in seattle. They did our diversity training for whites. Only at a

therefore non white, only and now, the most egregious and shocking thing, I've seen in the sacramento unified school district, they have proposed what they call racial affinity groups where they are advocating for white children to form white racial groups, to discuss the history of white people and form a war racial, collective, that to me right away. I said: ok, these people are the clan. Ok you! What? What? What are you I think's going to happen. tell all the white people to band together based on their race. No, we wanted to end white supremacy, so we say stop making laws based on race, and now it is the critical race practitioners we're bringing it all back. When when I was younger, and I was thinking about school. My parents told me never to being asian tell them your hispanic, if you have to because they were discriminate against you, based on your race and they're allowed to do it that something you have to tell you know four makes on mixed stock and pretend to be something else.

The washing my parents have to say that to me came to another realisation. If I not falling in love with someone who is asian. Does that mean that my kids will be disadvantaged because of this perceived white, jason tennis or something like that, if I have kids with a white person, they're going to disparage the whiteness of my children. How do what how do you navigate this this world, where they want to judge you, based on the color of your skin, your hair, color or the shape of your nose? I think it's shockingly evil, terrifies me that either purple pretty much among the democratic party its ubiquitous, I don't like the Republicans, I don't agree with them, I'm not pro life I'm I'm protests. I am for universal health care, what I'm sayin, terrified because we already solved with a vaccine roll out canada, the? U s, different region, We're trying to implement vaccine distribution based on race, and I saw that I said how can I be in favour of a universal? call system if racist

are going to seize control of that system and then say based on how you look, you don't get medication, so it's tough, I don't I all I know is. I can tell people to not judge people based on their race, but its if it's it's endemic, the modern left, The united states is overwhelmingly pro critical race praxis. They they say it's just teaching racism, but my family's experienced what that means, and I'm seeing it manifest now in the real world and it a genuinely scares me. they they they. They try to accuse me of being in a far right or whatever simply for interviewing people who are white nationalists, but I interviewed a soviet general. I interviewed muslim migrants in afghan refugees Tell you this there's nothing more alarming. To talk to a critical race practitioner, and then go talk to a white nationalist and realize they completely agree walking to enliven. Can it I was talking to a white nationals only a few weeks ago.

Telling him how absurd his ideas were, because they were based off just just this collectivization of blame, which makes no sense, and he went when, when it came to us, black lives matter. He expressed how happy he was with it, because what we're doing was forcing white people to segregate and create white communities and that's what they wanted, and I said yeah, I'm not surprised if the route core of your ideology is that you think the law should be based on race and that your race should stick together. It's no surprise, is that they agree on most things. I should say everything, but most things, and I say most it's because lives matter, you know, activists have come out, is a singular marxists and The white nationalists are not marxists, but they they. When it comes to identity based politics, they agree anyway, there's my rent so good rent him. I mean I recognise that this is approved. Obviously Personal for you ran, has her lover emotion, personal motion? I don't I wouldn't

big to undermine the value of what you're saying on that basis and if anything, it increases the value in. There is obviously something that you have felt and experienced someone it's not as involved. In that conversation, it feels to me that overtly war is being expressed. Is that some key the redress needs to take place. While I feel when I'm zoom back as best I can with my limitations, is that it is impossible to redress this historical or systemic problem by using the same kind of ideological algebra that create those problem, That is what we are saying that we are aspiring. To an equal, fair love. being and generous culture, then that is what

we should pursue, and I feel that we know like when you might of when you you've said some of those examples. One of the things that keeps a current amazed I can hardly believe that, whilst there is no in their. There have been historical events. That would mean that people from send demographics would have had comparable historical experiences and therefore likely trauma and their economic evidence suggests conditions have been influenced on mass and the if the intention, most somehow address, evident and obvious injustices practiced. We know not least opponent, members of your own family? If I could ever be addressed him addressed, that is something that ought to have and I suppose what I believe is the best way to address that is by creating inclusive and loving cultures now

one of the areas where I suspect we may differ in our perspective on reality and show this limitless number. But one of the ones that comes to mind is the thing that gives me hope is mice. When you talk about the laptop example there in occupy right, I know myself I know I would have wanted to keep that laptop if I was in a position of that person. But why I don't feel like you know. I certainly am not yet of one of those great souls but would go. Do you know what he s share the laptop or everybody where I reckon I am davies, I really want to keep this top? I know that this is wrong and I will not keep the laptop I would yield. We must vote for ways the best outcome for this laptop and for me, this acknowledgment availability this acknowledgement of our individual floors, the possibility for redemption in both its traditional commonly understood, meaning forgiveness and is more esoteric, and

aegis remaining, at least from a judeo christian perspective. You already when you are redeem, do belong back to the how you no longer belong to yourself redemption is something that I'm inspired by and I feel there are rate cells out their andy in fight for our go further than the you know like you go through these, these a incremental in eschew straw, as you slice down trying to stand a man or woman, a person, you know like fools on one level, lime, petty and jealousy secure on another level on gracious in kind on another level, I'm driven by desire and surely ultimately, culture is the expression of this of emotions that we all feel to some degree the minutes

now, though, in varying that it levels of intensity and why? What I believe is that there is the potential in human beings to overcome the primal drives that lead to conflict and selfishness. I believe in this I believe, it's possible for me as an individual to overcome my own greed. My own lost my own selfishness and, I believe, that's not unique. I think that live in

been fortunate enough to be given systems to help me overcome those feelings, and I would add that I believe that my tendencies toward greed, selfishness and lust cause I have to feel like and that they are. This is my apostasy. My apostasy is light, but I was embedded in celebrity and I believed in it, and I stick because those values are not a confectionery. They are roo it in primal, need for attention, power, status, etc. That they're not nothing, is not like some sort of one or men or culture that has no basis in what you might call the real

if viscerally real, you know, and they have been overcome through a combination of circumstance, failures, experience and learning, and now I find myself in this place fruit or la lava, free months of program, recovery to reaps of plain and explicit team that I think it's possible to overcome selfishness and greed, and I I find myself believing that people are ultimately beautiful. And when they behave badly. This this malady is an expression of some kind of trauma or bad conditioning, not that That does not mean I am extricates people from culpability or waiting and justice in consequence or any that stuff, but that there is some weeks ago, I'm not an eyelid and I'm not a pessimist like. I believe I have a set of values and I feel like that even like. Are you now imagine if we were to get some an uncritical rice theory folk on here is lucky most vehement exponents and

and practitioners that, if you were able, I know how hard it is when dealing with dogma from anywhere. It is the intention of this to create These fallen loving world where the loving you? Where is this? If Albania like, I feel that we be able to get yeah? But you know I'm a parent and I've been showing my limitations on an almost daily basis when it comes to practicing. While he was in the field. The path to hell is paved with good intentions. I think, for the most part, people genuinely feel that something good that is helpful, but there is in Yang. You know there There is good, there's evil within good. There is evil than evil. There is good and you'll end up with as much as someone fine redemption, someone can find corruption so I don't I don't do that has necessarily pessimistic. I think it's just you know the bounds of the universe and that No without night, there's no day as such, so were constantly striving to do better, but I feel

based on my experience at the very least, there is always going to be this great conflict between good and evil, and I mean that in terms of subjective sense of what you feel to view to be good, what what someone else mused good. The critical race theorists, obviously believe they're right over tribalism to form a collective and adhere to the authority structure, believe they're working towards a greater good. Nobody is the villain around story right, but I can tell you: I have met some people some wondering act by wall street. We discuss nihilism, we just oblivion and the heat death of the universe, and this was a brilliant individual, whose very prominent activists today and the conclusion we had in this is wonderful. Philosophical discussion was well, then really matters other than you know what we decide matters. My response was well. I said then I'll choose to create a positive to the best of my ability, something positive for people or I'll try to strive towards something that creates comfort and love and

Certainly not perfect. You know I've might I am no perfect person, but but try to to strive towards positivity at the very least, towards correct creative constructivist, And their response to me was sure, but if nothing matters, so what don't you want to just watch it all berne and expressed to me their goal was to shake things up to create. Chaos of life. Wasn't boring. This people exist. You know, they're, not tat. I dont know if its evil, its chaotic I do think that as much as you can find redemption for someone, someone else could ultimately become. I don't know disaffected and just say: what's the point I'll just take the money and then you corruption. So I wonder if, based on everything, we know about the universe so far, what we think we know with the laws of thermodynamics, read the golden ratio for every action. There is an equal and opposite reaction. Is it futile to believe that we could ever conquer bad, or do we accept

there. We will just strive towards this eternal battle between two great dragons, the two great wolves and maybe there. just reality? I suppose in others absent flows there acting in waiting. There is authoritarian despotism that we will try to stop, but sometimes can break through when, when our guard let down. I don't want to believe that we're inherently trapped in a world where you know fascists and authoritarian will keep coming to power somehow, but throughout history we can see dictators emerge, they kill people in that we stop them, and then we get comfortable and dictators emerge. So, how do you convince people to pay attention when to throw back to your point about what we've evolved to be it gets pessimistic to say, but I feel like it might not be possible so too, to elaborate. We only live for so long That means that our influence on this world is limited, not by the time we were born at a time when we die, but a time

I was born. I was born nineteen, eighty six, so who's president reagan right and then eighty eight was was h, w bush, but I'm too young. To remember any of that. I enter, into an understanding of politics around two thousand as a young teenager with bush vigo and I still don't understand it. I then come to adulthood during obama I woke up with a lot of bush and protesting the worn stuff like that and that changed my perspective and then obama button Biden. I had a conversation with a socialist voss. We've had him on the show my show a couple of times and when I was talking about Biden's corruption and the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the protests against the obama administration for the bailouts he said I was like fifteen. I have no idea what that what that was. He was young. So the fact that we enter into the world already in motion mean Our understanding of history is gonna, be limited and so not very familiar with stress how generational theory they call it does that the four turnings and they say that were in the fourth turning

basically that every eighty years with great conflict that leaves a star a strong lesson with society that leads to prosperity and you go through the next generation where it starts to slow down the next generation where it stagnates and then finally the fourth turning is where it begins to collapse. I think that's because humans didn't devolved to live in a massive system like this and to retain knowledge of past lives. So, of course we forget our history so of course, were doomed to repeat it. I was born at a time When the item I mean I was a child when the cold war ended, I was four or five years old. I have no idea what was going on, and so I don't know the horrors of of of communism. The same way that my friends, parents do, or my parents did from watching tv. My friends, parents actually having been in the soviet union and having to flee so well into a world, just not knowing our history and when we try to learn it. We can't really grasp what it was like to experience. Those

once we're rendering now a world where the next voting class that's entering, didn't, experienced nine eleven, and so they d understand a world before the patriot act. The lockdown tv, the warrantless spying and I

like many of them are becoming inherently authoritarian because they don't know any world outside of authoritarianism, and they see them as opposed to a lot of the things I think, there's a very brilliant communicator and you're really able to convince and relay really difficult ideas and a wonderfully passionate in a way, in a way that I can appreciate. Suddenly, while I feel like a thank, you might becoming, one watt bulb where I have to necessarily find. Let's see, I see these things as highly temporal and at least he's not like a sort of a mystical analysis. It's a highly pragmatic one in the the movements of the spheres through a thrower,

civilizations in the fleeting moments, surely in the vast consider tariff their limitless cosmic grace. I e we just. Let me know like we're with down among the clocks. Everything happens, a human scale to us. We born we die they, we ebb, we flow cultures come and go, but I feel that there is a potential through our consciousness for two. If I asked to interact with eternal to be expressions of the eternal. The emergence of apparently universal principles such as kindness or compassion or love, and if these are, of course some in their surely ways of disk in them by a chemically, but are also ways of understanding them, spiritual aim and my senses.

That is why we as we reach the point of being able to attain view and log vast tracts of knowledge that we falls upon us to be able to practise in a single lifetime. An awareness somehow of eternity turned not make all of our systems an expression of our animal nature of any impression of our competition and expression of our fear and our desire recognizing that they are going to be in the mix as they are in an individual life, and I know that it's naive to expect that any individuals, redemption or any small communities experience could be scaled globally. The analysis of the darkness of fallible mortal to apply, but for me

I feel that we operate on a very narrow bandwidth in the way that we understand analyze incorporate an instant she ate reality. This is what we do. This is how we ve been through. These are our progressions, and I feel that what spiritual practice I e meditations psychedelic experience, shaman ism may offer- is the potential to bring forth new ways of organizing says I wish not gonna be so novel by what it may also juggle. Well, you know so little if our trail, though that wouldn't be novel for an elbow or light light, but what it might mean is that we invite new ways of setting up our values when it will, I think of, as I enter service, basically a short trump sky idea. All of the assumed nomes I e! This is the united states. This is united kingdom gdp is how we gonna run it

basically going to be a version of democracy, that's manipulated so that the expressions of that democracy, a highly limited and don't affect the interests of the most powerful strata of the society near those of the things that I think will be challenged, I think, could be challenged by populism. I didn't chat. and I watched Bannon did their dress the oxford union and, as you might imagine, they were not a warm crowd, but he warned him up with hot hot the truth that day light came in. Inspired from the rainy like colombo or something of his two shirts and macintosh- and he said you guys- are never going to own a house in ease of impact, how what went down two? thousand- and I am stuff that you know a lot more about them- make and he said light in populism is the future or we are discussing. Now is whether is right wing or left wing, and when he said that I felt this. Is this something very interesting and what this man is understood? I feel that there is potential like that. Some wherein all

pie in extinction. Rebellion need black lives. Man in all of these attempts to challenge there is a germ of some. potent you know like an end like keenness of live sarajevo moments of those gun bows you describe of our while was that the bullet that triggered the movement that became the civil war in. I see a different narrative of potential for different narrative. Yeah acknowledging there is this need for tribalism, nation, acknowledging that there is a need for an agreement on universal principles, a accepting that there's always gonna be a degree of conflict, but to recognise that the things likely need to change our probably housed alongside that, where power most commonly resides, who does the system staying the same benefit most, who benefit most? If this does not change if this change stays as this intransigent kind of. great lack of ideological con flab is never going to lead anywhere because somebody

never go to accept the serve the mad mathematics if the vat semantic madness you ve just described, others are never going to accept people's rights to be connected to tradition and pageantry. That means a lot to them because of deaths and wars and things that connect to them. Now I feel, there's something emerging. I think it is possible for human beings to live better, and I recognize that that that there will probably be a moment of great chaos before that comes around, Perhaps that's where we headed that supposedly, what's gonna happen according to the stress how generational theory, we also have something called through assiduities trap, which is a reference to one. There's a rising economic power set to displace the dominant power, a war breaks out, and so that's china in the? U s, I will say, though, I completely agree with you on the shaman stuff. I think I've ever done. Psychic Alex I've missed, smoked, we'd like couple times in my life. Not a fan, I don't drink, they don't really

any drugs of any sort of probably caffeine. That's silly! You know, I think, is very like say: caffeine, drugs, but man would this world be greatly benefited from the empty and suicide in iowa people need to have like an inward journey and meditation and philosophical conversations and, in my experience, there's a lot of people. I knew to be what we would call uninitiated uninterested selfish. And then someone convinced on the trash rooms then, all of a sudden they became more worldly, came more compassionate, it's like it. It's like it gave them some kind of understanding that have before I've had a lot of those people come to me and say to him. How could you say this if you ve never done trims yourself and on why? You know why? I just it's not for me I guess, but I think there's something really profound and inside Alex. That would be greatly beneficial to mankind. I absolutely do what excites me about is the they seem to be architect

experiences. I like you. I did them. You know psychedelic drugs when I was a kid, but this is new getting them for twenty years ago. That stuff for me now cause you know my my abstinence based recovery. But what excites me is what you have described, that it seems to function as a kind of initiation which alters the perspective of the individual and breaks down. the structures of the individual, and you can see how it might be a kind of a disorientation how that mile right neurologically by chemically, but because of the archetype, all information cause of the consistency of the experience that suggests to me the possibility that as well, William James, said in them in a variety of religious experience that they are all realms of consciousness, that we are separated from just because of the way we are how we ve I break out frequency and if you get a taste of that, what could be called a penny over the weather is induced to loosen agenda. Cleo proved meditative proxies breastwork, both for which I used the possibility of recognise

I think knotless of the dark version of do you know the great hole and that that you know that the solar event that nz all anyway, but but but but but to say well actually that in itself, whatever it is that we are an expression of exists beyond that. The idea that consciousness may be a fundamental component of the universe of the universe, not an inadvertent consequence of evolution that we are expert. Tons of that that we have a relationship with that that we can therefore prioritize that over our need for trinkets are written all the time tim to this or ghandi quote, we go get over our love of trinkets. He said, and this was in a bloody four- is a wherever we're obsessed with gadgetry. India is a country of seventy thousand villages appointing throwing the brits out and then replicate in the exact systems of governance that they imposed upon us just with indian people which these exactly what they did they in it, we should have seventy thousand autonomous villages that run

themselves trading only when necessary, democratically run within the meaning of life in this kind of these a base. These ideas I feel like that, have gone on for a hundred years ago. The blink of an eye and a culture, blink of an eye for the evolution of us She's these things in alignment with a river kept reverb river vacation, a liberal or liberated and ization of the human spirit, so that it doesn't become dormant and cerebral. Hear that people like you, I think empty men and no tradition- have met very many at all. With a brilliant mind, a great capacity great intellect it can, I sometimes think, can synthesize a very heightened stay cause, I'm pretty clever too. You know Why have the day have to draw haven? If I do say no, it else is going to say it's a little late, for I mean you're, very smart. Thank you team. Thank you. Just make the conversation a lot more balance

after full, into a kind of a different part of my being a kind of in an active innocence, become as children tipped side. They are good book. Now that there is, there is something in our seas. We not just thoughts and emotions. We not just our culture, there's something in there this, thing in their bodies, and you know the reason that is often awakened through these plant based experiences, because it means that is no accident, because it is part of these solutions may be there at him, a soul. I it's interesting. I I hear a lot of similar ideas from many of my christian or catholic friends about a greater something within us, something more than just our our our thoughts and feelings. There's a lot of people, you have had some relation in conversations when it comes to faith. We add a couple guests were overt atheists and then, after having the conversation, they stop saying for atheists. I dont consider myself to be atheist or agnostic. I do believe in god, but I dont believe in

this theistic version that you'd you gets depicted in media on fantasy of, for you know a human like entity of some sort. I think that there are absolutely is something greater than than all of us. Maybe it's just the system itself, the universe itself, and we are you know existing manifesto Many of you know small pieces of it are somewhat that, but I do think there's something more to everything I think. There's purpose I think we can try and find it and You know, I suppose I would. I would agree with you in terms of you know, making things better advancing new knowledge changes things I don't want to make. It seem, like you know, we're we're doomed to an eternal struggle that never progresses. I I think life gets better. I think people can can accrue more information and with that comes philosophical understanding, theological understanding whether you're in a four against any of these religions. But I am fascinated by our developments with psychedelic sti indian things like that, because it finally feels like we may have discovered with the anti, especially some kind

window to better understanding whatever it is. Lists beyond the veil. I think I think people experiencing that, will welcome to have a greater sense of of the of the one I think is, as are you referring to it. kind of like you know they view themselves as the center of the universe than when they had this experience. That goes beyond their own individual perspective and and and really chain. The way of thinking they come to realise that, in our probably all what we are all part of the exact same thing and there's there's something bigger to strive towards like what you said about the other, the villages. You know decentralized, villages. I you know this

A lot of people on the right that they say to the the big culture battle. Is globalism vs nationalism? I don't see it that way, because I wouldn't put myself in the camp of the the davos elites and the world at the world economic forum that the the the international monetary fund or anything like that. But I I do think a one world system would be amazing so long as it's not an authority. Ryan, you know crackdown. I guess you know that my vision for a better world is regional autonomy. Your village. Your town, you're community, can lead the way they want. The can peacefully interact with other communities, their free travel there's no war. It might be a bit utopian, but I think you know as much as the utopia of always failed so long as it comes from a place of liberty and respect for you. No individual communities, we don't have to worry for the most part about gulags in concentration camps or anything like that we do have to. We do have to worry about that from the desperate to want to seize the power, though,

and that's that's, that's one of the challenges. I think we face in trying to strive towards that world of decentralization is watching out for those that would you know, try to usurp or see steal power. I dunno man, it's a. Tough questions. Gonna take is more than a lighter lagging over. how's the idea that soon sovereignty is conventionally based on the idea that the state or the sovereign offers protection to the population in exchange for taxis and subservience and like this, so I d goes on there. If we were free to create our own communities, how do we protect him I was in london today. You know, I don't live in london and live in the countryside and like, and they said they were gearing up for an extinction. Rebellion protest, their wishes flavored in this country as a sort of somewhat middle class, ecologically oriented, definitely liberal, laughed, but certainly doesn't is much more. He p in new wage mother rather than the kind of arms. seal of alignment. I know: there's a lot of com:

with them and how they should lie, not with a locked down people how abbe antidotes down people rather a niece of those caught the kind of movements of emerged out of that. But whenever I see their police even in spite of my awareness of many of the narratives that are indisputable, are around brutality and of authoritarianism on some level. When I see the police, I think these are ordinary people from ordinary backgrounds. You know when, when my condemning something for being institutionalized is very important to remember the role of the institution, in that under the way of redeeming, changing altering, improving anything like that risk here is not to condemn individuals within it and, mr obvious legal reasons to do so light bicycles, when I saw the police of a kind of warm about those guys, which is not how I felt when I was twenty in in over the placard with my bomb, our protest yeah, I might disagree a little bit

I I mostly agree when I, when I look at issues of the police, I typically see regular p all many of whom are just doing the job, but there is an inherent problem with. Institutions that the institutions are made up of those who hold it up, and so I mean I last year I was much sang abolish the police that stupid. Why would we do that now? Very much sang abolish the police, nothing personal against the good police officers who want to help? I think the issue is that it's beyond the police is a system of I think in the: u s an absolutely great legal system, but there are problems which result in oppression. And so as much as I think the the mainstream has tried. The mainstream democrats have tried to eschew the notion that they are they. They tried to veer away from being labeled as abolish the police and advocates I've grown more towards in favor of it. I

that too much of personal responsibility has been given away the idea, that we need a police department in big cities to make sure bad things don't happen, I'm not so convinced anymore, and it's probably because I've been talking to a lot of libertarians. You know they're they're, very much, if that, unlike the cops, but you know, while about the middle of nowhere, I couldn't call the cops anyway. They wouldn't make it here. So it is. It is incumbent upon me to be responsible to myself. Now I will say this about the police is a loaded term. That means something you know a specific. If you want to break down what it actually means, it's also simple, to just say, get rid of all cops. It's basically like, I think, we'd be we'd, be better off right now, with a police force, acting as arbitrators instead of a violent. I have an institution with a monopoly on violence. The idea that you know police get to be armed and go around and take your guns away. Then you can't defend yourself, because they've decided that I think is-

problem, and so that's really. What turned me around on this? I was talking with Michael malice and he said all cops are criminals because in the united states he he he. He means it to a great extent, but he said one example is in new york city if he tries to get a gun to defend himself, as is his right, that is, that is protected by the constitution. A police officer will arrest him and he will not be able to defend himself in a city with a high with with an escalating crime rate. I started to think about that. And you know I I thought about traffic. There are people driving cars all day everyday. I know cars aren't designed to kill people, but when I crossed the reed. I'm not worried about someone blown, stop, sign or read like hitting me, though it can happen. I typically think people don't want to hurt me and so when I moved out of the country on a minimum I live in west virginia work in maryland. It's you know. On the on the on the state line, I see people with. All day every day in some big ones, and they dont want to hurt me

So I'm not really worried about what you know the people, because there is a tendency people. I think I think to do good. Then I think about the systems that we see now with the past year, without police have responded to the law. Downs? Have the police are responding in australia, and I said I think this is causing us more problems than we think it solving. I talked to a friend of mine who lives in the suburbs in baltimore and I you know, there's a back when I was very much like a volatile places, a crazy idea. You know police provide a service and she said where we live All they do is give us tickets for bs reasons and climate blue stop signs when we didn't and we now have a crop high crime right anyway. So why do we have a police department- and I said kay? Well, I guess, if you know, if you live in a community and you dont want it, that's up to you, but you know for these bigger cities, I think you need departments, and then I started seeing what was happening with the lock downs. The this the state demanded that people not be allowed to work

Meanwhile, what walmart is allowed to stay open? No, no! No kidding. There was a gardening shop, but he was in michigan they provided. You know, plants and potting soil shut down by the state, but Walmart's gardening section was allowed to remain open. That kind of disparity between the wealthy and the massive powerful and the working class was enforced by police. Who said, look I'm just doing the right thing to help. I dont think they helped anybody and then you look at tat during the I it's! The rights were stopped by the police. You know that often times the police stood back and did nothing in new york city in portland. So then I started thinking you look. If I can defend myself from a violent criminal in some of these states, you can in some places not not others.

if they're going to enforce unconstitutional outright illegal actions of corrupt politicians. At this point, I think we would be at or be better be better off abolishing it to a grant to. You know to to to the extent that we have maybe, like you know, we would still have investigators and district attorneys, but this this beat cop stuff I am not convinced its working right now, I'm just genuinely not have him yourself, pricing, political enigma, and your car complex man team is really lovely tools. You could frazier How do we get to talk again? Is again layer of here go government dinners, basically the truth of it and then it's prevented me over there, and I know you. Do you procreate a lot of content I'll make sure to promote your stuff note. You need it and sm absolutely fantastic to speak with you. I really really enjoyed it. I really appreciate I you guys reaching out have me on and if you ever find yourself in the states, you know wherein the harper s ferry, I feel free to set us up.

Yeah will do my time and thanks to your expertise, I've learned a lot of things. First start left, libertarian regional autonomy, some lovely phrase, these things connecticut conflict Can any conflict forgot, throw them down and let my my fire risk genetic conflict thank the slovene speaking with him at random and push it. That was me talking. tim pool. I hope you learned a lot from nicer he's very clever his name. Yet he spoke atlanta, it's good in it when you're doing a podcast and they seem very nice yeah. I liked him a lot. Sometimes I want to just relax everyone. Don't you get relaxed? you didn't. Do it more relaxed, not relax. You ve got your ideas are bombing, some other people can more relaxed level very slowly. But I rather like Why reminded recommend bench peer reviewed, and this happened to hoddan doctrine. it's a present that you book at a recommend, someone that you want on the page. Who else are you going to recommend this one recommendation, but they only need one workers

I would listen to that one too. What if they go? Hmm, I never knew of choice yeah, and then they don't tell you that alright, fair enough. Okay, what we've talked about today, sign up to the main, unless Jenny's gonna we're gonna we're going to get Jenny married off cafe to a woman if you keep thing of the moment, but I figure you might be happy with a woman really maybe I think, there's probably a lot to be said for same sex relationships, certainly sort of me. you're gonna, be a gay man. Some of the day work everyone's jesse, If someone within the minds debate to watch, they haven't been bothering me with it. That's what they do, though, is like buffet with it. I've heard things as they are then leave things as they are is it actually find your personal sovereignty but find the buddha heard within you become who you are become? Who? U r, o lord shriek began playing watching?

Everything was given me a good, but you don't wanna go pledging dollars, my shop animal work, about the noise fly, revelation, come and see me commentary, listen event, Shapiro! Thank you! Listen to under the skin right Thank you to under the skin, by the skating, less so than the.