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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, the night Stalker Dtk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening, killing season is a true crime, Sega the story of double murder that went unsolved for more than thirty five years and a chill

portrait of a small town up ended by unimaginable violence in the summer of nineteen. Seventy five the valley, town of Grand Junction, Colorado is stunned by the grisly double murder of twenty four year old, Linda Benson and her baby daughter Kelly for Jim from and Doug rushing the two young detectives assigned to the case the investigation is a chance to earn their stripes and prove their mettle at for from in rushing pig, the woman's Mccurry Husband, a pipe fitter who works outside of town, as the primary suspect, but as their case against Steve Ban. And unravels the detectives find themselves short on leads and running out of time with the city on edge and anxious for answers and notorious serial killer goes on the lam and yet another young woman and her children turn up dead in the killing

he's an acclaimed journalist Alex French traces. The story of the Benson murders from the Linda and Kelly's bodies are found strewn across their second floor apartment to an improbable discovery, made more and thirty years later, that enabled new breed of detectives to crack the case and bring closure to those who'd watched justice slip away. Writing in taught atmosphere pros French has crafted at heart, pounding tale of tragedy, resilience and redemption set against the burning red vistas of the American SW. The book that we're featuring this evening is the killing season. With my special guest journalist and author, Alex French. Welcome to the program, and thank you for agreeing this interview Alex French. Thank you so much for having me. How are you tonight very good? Thank you Alex for joining us tonight. Incredible story, and

as we alluded to a notorious serial killer, so people will find this. Very, very fascinating. This book and this story that you have in the killing season now just be without giving anything away. I know that's my biggest cliche but tell us how you came to want to write this book so tell us how you came to write the killing season right. You know I've just about every day I kind of cruise to the you know through the headlines on the AP wire kind of looking for story, ideas and gosh. It was probably the spring of two thousand nine two thousand and eight or two thousand and nine. I saw a news item about this story. You know that after thirty five years in arrested finally been made, you know this.

It was a long story, but it basically mention that these two detectives, Jim from and Doug Rushing, had worked the case back then, and you know, had never left town and you know, for a long time they were sort of known as the guys who weren't so, these murders that they were assigned to solve and and stayed they had both sort of you know for years and years, never really been able to get over. You know these crimes and and and sort of what you know in the in in one thousand nine hundred and seventy five? They had gosh twelve homicides or eleven homicides in grand junction. After not having a single homicide there for more than a decade, and so this community was really just Really sort of on you on a razor's edge in terms of you know the tension around town and they were. You know they were sort of why the views

guys who who were letting everybody down that was that was hard on them. They were both young, you know, were in their early twenties and I. I contacted them immediately, and they said you know gee we'd love to tell her story. But you know we've got to do this whole trial thing and you know their appeals afterwards and You know it's probably gonna be a couple years before before we can speak to you. So I I waited I waited six years and and follow the story to the trial, and then you know, sort of you know just wait didn't, wait it and gosh two summers ago, some guys from Amazon dot com approached me about and then said to me. You know if you could tell any story. What story would you tell, and I just couldn't stop thinking about. Washington from so I contacted them right around the time I contacted them, like I think, a week after the

the the perpetrators final he'll was denied and they were able to speak to me. So I I went, I went there almost to be pulling spent GOSH two one slash two weeks in Grand Junction, researching and reporting and knocking on doors and and stuff like that. Now before we talk about before we get into this incredible tale, let's talk about a little bit about the Benson family, Linda, Steve, Benson and Kelly. Take it back the research that you've done and who are they people start off with the Steve Benson. This is so you know, there's not a whole. You know, I don't know who you know. Steve wouldn't speak to me. I, I suppose, for good reason, he's been he's going to send horrible things, He came from a tough family, you know, I, you know your brother Bob and not

I should note about them. You know, I think he came from someplace in the Midwest Indiana or something- and you know they settled around. You know Grand Junction when he was in his teens You know he went to Vietnam Server, you sort of the sort of it of it. Hell raiser and you know what had sort of a you know, a bad history with women. You know big drinker the party and I you for all sort of a tense purposes. It seems as though Linda Benson was sort of this world, or her name is when the catch him before she took his. Really settled him down. She was a yeah. I I I I searched. A lot of time was re route. You know, reporting this trying to sort of get a whole her personality and she seems to have been a just a genuinely sweet young lady.

I think you know she really had maybe this status life of anybody that I think I've ever you know what I eat, not that I ever met her but encountered just blew, hearing stories about her. You know her father died when she was two: he dropped dead in a duck blind. They were from Nebraska move to Colorado with Linda's stepmother. Or mother, and I'm sorry, her mother and her stepfather again Lawrence him right. Who is a degenerate alcoholic in abusive to her when she was sixteen Lawrence paid. He knows her. It'll to meet him basically saying it's either the kids or me, so she took the kids out of the house. There is abuse, you know me, she just had her. You know a couple. A couple of months before Linda die, her sister died of a you know: sort of a strange drug overdose

and I think she was just you- know- sort of a sweet, sad woman- you know sort of twenty four year old stay at home, mom but yeah. I think she was just a sweet sort of a sad woman and I think she and see we're just doing the best that they could Now tell us a little bit about their family life there in their daughter Kelly, and you could tell us, tell Errado sure, talked about baby daughter but also tell us a little bit about grand Junction where Junction Colorado really is geographically okay, so so I think, their life was pretty quiet. They lived in a sort of an upscale apartment, complex numbers of the chateau apartments. There were a lot of young families. And a lot of college coeds living around there moved in a second floor apartment that Steve paid for by working at as a pipe fitter in

power plant about GOSH for five hours north in Craig Card Colorado. Grand Junction sits on the western slope of the Colorado. It's about twenty five minutes from the Utah line. It is, it really is a striking place for much of the day, the the entire atmosphere there sort of glues, vermilion, there's the Colorado National Monument is there. It is. It is sort of Mesa in Butte and high desert, but for as far as the eye can see it is, we are uniquely beautiful but also sort of spooky kind of place, and it is, you know,

been a boom town. They were you know they, mine, minerals, there vanian actually uranium for the Manhattan project and there is a real sort of boom boom boom and bust mentality. Where you have a lot of young men moving into town, getting rich and then getting poor again, even quicker and I think one thousand nine hundred and seventy five in Grand Junction is sort of unique because you know you've got guys coming home from Vietnam. It seems like sort of oddly everybody I spoke to had some some story about a young man that they knew knew back then that died in a drop in a drunken rack. You know I think alcoholism was was fairly rampant. It was also the sort of place where, when men crossed each other, there was a fight. There is no sort of shoving. The just fought. You know, who is a lot of here, Steve, Bentsen's, dad and also the Russians dad for that matter. Were world war two that

in tough guys, you know Doug Rushing's dad was in the 82nd airborne, and so you had that generation of men who had had combat training, and then you had you know next generation, where young men, who were you going off to fight in Vietnam, so there was that sort of that. You know the the that sort of tension of like having been in war. Having been a soldier, you know, sort of you know, kind of the widespread loss of. Like you know, white privilege, in terms of you know, we were talking about a generation of guys who had sort of been betrayed by or felt like. They've been betrayed by the The command structure, Vietnam, women's Lib, was big. You know sort of we were sort of the sexual revolution was sort of in full progress. An around town, you know there is chicano movement was starting to sort of started, was beginning to sort of gather steam.

Grand Junction in nineteen. Seventy five is, but town that is small and yet growing. An also sort of seems to be a bit of a pressure cooker in terms of in terms of crime. So you talk about Linden, Steve have and they had a lot of friends in this, the shuttle building and but they really did spend most of their time. They were especially close with the grants. Maureen Grant Grant Gratton Gary Junior, who was three years old and they live right above them and in apartment. Three and eleven so tell us a little bit about the relationship and how close they were and tell us a little bit about. Maureen is very relationship yeah. It was really Linda in Maureen Maureen was nineteen when she moved it to the chateau. You know, I think, probably in the fall followed. Seventy four

it when it was really like a big sister to her on the spot. You know that their kids were about the same age. Gary juniors in a three Kelly was five, so they spent you know their days at the park for you, know, sort of in the mornings they would go and they would take their kids for a walk and then in the afternoon they would do yoga in one of the apartments and they sort of you know, since they they lived sort of one on top of the other. You know they would just keep their doors open and sort of run up and down the stairs. You know they sort of had a schedule on Tuesdays. They want to. You know, Taco Bell at Wednesday's there, but you know on wednesdays. They brought to it's the friendlies. You know there was always some sort of activity with the kids and. You know. There is a strange sort of a strange thing was Two women were very close, and yet there can't Stations a lot of the time sort of revolved around motherhood. You know the Isn't a lot of.

There wasn't a lot of kind of intense intimate personal talk about. About you know sort of about their lives. It was you know, about sort of there through lives beyond sort of the most, the more quotidian details uhm, you know when they had some other friends that that I think she filled in more. So put put more. Maureen is really the closest person to and at that time and sort of Gary senior worked out of town. I think he was a coal miner up north, not far from where Steve Work, but they didn't really like Gary Senior. He was sort of abrasive. You know again sort of a boisterous boisterous drinker, so yeah they had, they had a really uhm. They had a really lively social life. There. You know a lot of sitting out on the patio. You know a lot of a lot of beer, drinking and and and and sort of soft drugs and and having fun.

Now that tell us about the situation where her husband is Steve is not home when he works. He works with get out of town. So what's the situation, yeah they're not married but tell us how it comes that he's not there. All the time will say so yeah so Steve works as he was a union pipe fitter at a big construction job they're built building a big powerhouse up in Craig Colorado. So every Sunday at around four hundred am he would get outta bed and heat either. He would drive up to crack with a guy named Harold. Really- and you know they they work for a week. Steve would camp out in the you know when it was warm enough, he would Papa ten out by

otter creek up by the UN for help by the upper river in he would wake up in the morning any fish for his breakfast and the need to go to work, and then he he go back to the campsite cab, campsite and fish for his dinner. He saved a lot of money doing that during the winter. He would share hotel room with you, know eight or ten other guys, and they would split the bill eight or ten ways and he was. He was really sort of working for the weekend. If you know what I mean you know like this is this: he is winding Kelly down down in grand junction, so he was sort of you know for forties they're. You know three at home or or something like that. There was any talk, with Linda with Maureen about Steve being a threat at all. Was there any? I know that they weren't Some of the conversation was limited, but was there any call

station like that with Maureen? That marine was aware not that I was aware of you know this sort of the picture of yeah it's interesting the way my research sort of shook out was. I got in touch fairly early with the Grand Junction District attorney Ann. As they were really supportive for my first three or four days in Grand Junction, they opened up a conference room in the courthouse building and they just brought in all of the all of the files. All the photos that you know the crime scene photos the autopsy photos all of the police reports, all the all the notes that the cops actually took back in nineteen. Seventy five, you know Doug rushing still head and stuff too,

He like me to take a look at that, but I just had an unbelievable amount of you know. Every time the police would would interview somebody they would fill out sort of an interview report, and you know all this sort of the stuff that I read about. You know kind of Steve's, difficult history with women came from those police reports. You know they came from taxes or from people who knew in x or something like that by all accounts. You know other than sort of talking to win his family? I mean eight days they are sort of under the impression that Steve was still is still Steve. Is they think Steve is the killer I do not, but by all accounts it was sort of the loving gentle relation You know they were sort of you, like. I said earlier, like two kids, who really kind of doing the best that they could in, You know I you know. I don't think that or one

other kind of quotes, confident in the building there. Her name was Pat Freeman ever really thought of Steve. That way, you know I mean I think, certainly Pat had seen Steve lose his temper kind of an in a drunken rage one night, but but other than that you know he never You know they never heard of him. You know sort of touch when in a way that you want to be touched- or you know they were never, you know bruise marks. I know the police didn't pull up any. You know hospital reports for her with with You know a broken nose or a you know, a black guy or anything like that. So so, sort of from what I gather. It was kind of a you know, kind of a quiet, gentle relationship. Ok, let's talk about July 25th, one thousand nine hundred and seventy five. Why is it that Steve doesn't have a key? Tell us? The circumstances

The discovery that he makes service Steve Steve would do well enough to work. If you want to buy a new healthy, you know and he put down a deposit at the the Chevy dealership in Craig Colorado, and you know after work that night he dropped his his chevy comment off at the dealership and caught a ride from Craig down to okay Junction about an hour an hour outside of grand junction. He right he realizes that. The key is that he left in the glove power that the Glove Box of the car that he's trading in also had his house keys, so that when he arrived back to the checked, so he was locked out and that sort of started a well. I think we must have been the most horrifying sort of fifteen minutes of his life, where he sort of you know realizing something's, wrong and and

isn't able to you know, get inside any. You know begin to ask for ask the neighbors you have you seen window? Where is she you know? Why is the apartment block, why you know why the where the, where the shades drawn- and you know eventually he was able to spring up on a on a sort of a swamp cooler that kind of you know about half way between the second floor balcony in the ground. It was easy to kind of pushed himself up off the swamp cooler and on to a balcony, and he was able to slide. There is a sliding door he opened, the sliding door was off the tracks. He opened it let himself in and found the bodies there, and then you know what you call the police.

And what what was the state not to get into every gory detail? But what was the state of the bodies where? Where where? Where were they in relation to each other and what had happened to Linda and her little five year old daughter, choose wondering why the you know the sort of in in the in the in the Words that follow the discovery of the bodies, the Grand Grand Junction Police dispatch, their crime scene unit to the

and what they found was when they had been stabbed in beaten, pretty viciously, but she'd been stabbed mostly in the chest, in a in a sort of a kind of a cluster pattern. Over her heart in her body was jammed up between a mattress which they kept on the floor. In the bureau, the space was just a little bit too small for her for her to fit into so she was kind of end up against the wall or the against the the bureau. A little bit Kelly. Was is in. There is sort of a strange hallway in the apartment, and Kelly was in that sort of a strange. It was kind of thing

is the living room and then you would walk through the living room into this hallway in this hallway had doors for Steven Mendez Bedroom and then for a bathroom in the bathroom and join too Kelly's Kelly's room and Kelly was sort of halfway between the hallway in the bathroom and she had been stabbed in a sort of similar, similar fashion pretty brutally- and I think six times what Steve like you say, is shocked and runs out of there. But what is once police come there? What what do they do with Steve? What is his state? What is his demeanor at that time and how do police initially assess on the crime scene? Well, so she was brought down the put the police station in call in question for quite a few hours. They did a physical examination,

you know they checked his hands and- and he was eventually let go. No, I I think he was did that. I think the police sort of right. We assess that he was in a just and complete and total shock And, and was also at the same time, a little bit aggravated that the police were really kind of can, but you know they could give police were looking him at know at him, as their primary suspect and made very little secret of that now, the crime scene? There was uh lot of blood, and- and there were There- was blood in places that led the police to believe that the killer had cut himself. They found sort of bloody the prince on the wall in the living room by a light switch. They found drops of blood kind of all over the kitchen uh,

and you know the fact you did, I mean it's sort of like this is sort of blood. In addition to kind of, like your average kind of cast on spray, so you know so they had a pretty good idea. They were sort of you know two plump droplets on windows, chess that you know led the police to believe that you know the killer I'd sort of lean down over her in blood on her and so they, you know, seeing that Kind of immediately tried to type you know they took scrapings of the blood for typing, so they also took blood from Steve Benson to to to match up to see if they could match it up with a blood test. Still, you know, I'm fairly certain that if you were to talk to um, do

rushing or with Jim, from the two detectors that investigated. I think they would tell you that fairly early on, they didn't think that it was Steve. Benson. Excuse me, I know from from told me on a number. I'm sorry Russian told me another number on a number of occasions that you know one of the things that they learned at the police Academy in Golden you know years earlier was that most of the time when the bodies are just sort of left at the crime scene, it's not a family family members will try to for the theory that the reason we were that sort of family members try to dispose of the bodies they try to hide. What they've done. You know maybe ten of Shane, but you know they. They thought you know kind of family members will hold for free. We have take the bodies away and try to hide. Do some place. Was there some element of you allow

to the idea that it might be something on the chest of both Linda and her daughter was it across, as you mentioned, and was in and was a determinedly across it wasn't on it. On Kelly Shots, but there was there was a cross. It looked like it was done with the tip of a very sharp knife sort of carved into into in his chest in it you know, sort of at the at the autopsy, the the for the friends. Do the forensic DR knew that he thought she'd been tortured. So what to do? Please determine from it. It is a robbery motive which she said was Linda sexually assaulted a does it look again. We just talked about, then it looks not like a family member, because the bodies were covered up and then there's

this obvious overkill and now you're talking about torture. So what could the police deem from the crime scene? What was their earliest conclusion, at least in our ideals of all, make consistently yeah? Well, nothing was taken from the apartment, they did a walk through the Stevenson days after the murder. They brought him back to the crime scene and he did a walk through in an eight they basically determined based on you know, based on the condition of body, and you know that she had a lot of a lot of material under a lot of skin skin material. Your fingernails. What they think happened was that it was an attempted rape that the assailant had has entered the apartment and and tried to rape her and she fought him off and he ended up killing her, and you know, because this happened late at night.

The struggle look, the little girl who went out into the living room and saw this. Strange manor house and you know, made a racket and he killed her in you know I think, as far as I can tell that's actually what happened you know and that, for the most part we had was their theory sort of from this. From the start, you know nothing, it's been stolen, Steve, Steve, that's alibi was, was really airtight. You know there were time cards. There was not a lot of. There were time cards, there were witnesses who saw him up around Hayden Colorado kind of

hours earlier. There was no real solid reason to think it was defense and other than you know, sort of you know what what people are saying about that surround town and just the fact that you know they always look at the spouse first in so I I think the police is where the you know, the sort of Grand Junction polices assessment of what happened in an apartment from the beginning was fairly consistent and and to this day I think, is actually what happened. Tell tell her I didn't serve as you point out in the book: cuz there's for those people that are not quite as old. I am in my 50s, so tell us about what the state of forensic technology was in science was in regard

the dna at that time, but regardless of that, what was police procedure in terms of preserving evidence at the crime scene sure so yeah new new dna technology, it to speak of? I I don't think that they actually You know the the suspect that you know the guy. They eventually get. Get him because of a blood test that he gives up in prison in nineteen. Seventy eight- and you know I don't think sort of dna testing- was. Going. You know kind of until around that time, the forensic science in the mid seventies. You know I mean we, I think he did it a good job of it. The you know the grand.

Function, police department clearly did a very good job with the technology that they had available to them, so they They were doing serology, which is you know, blood typing, but that was kind of about it. You know they could do fingerprints, but that was really you know that was still a really time consuming and frequently fruitless, You know sort of discipline, so yeah I mean it was really just blood typing. You know blood typing in and kind of on the ground police work. Now with that, you see that Steve Benson is got an airtight alibi, despite what the city folk believe, despite what the media has conjured up and but then you also in this tale include other people in other victims, as you

reduce of the rushing detective, rushing and detective from, and so let's talk a little bit about twenty four year old Denise, all of a sudden, Oliver's, and and tell us why you have included white. Her case is important to this story, full, so one thousand nine hundred and seventy five in the midwest in the in the sort of in the west. You know the kind of From you know, really from Oregon Oregon to Arizona is terrifying girls were just disappearing left and right and and- We know where they were going and you are what opening to them here. Okay, usually some some jogger in a park, we would find some. You know a scholar, some bones are You know a girl would wash up in a river and she's been. You know you know

tortured and killed there. You know I mean just just to take a terrifying time to live in the west. In in all over sin is the sort of she was August? Twenty four and newly married. I I mean she had a high fight with her husband. I took the bike out and was last seen at a gas station where you know kind of months later they discover TED Bundy's his credit card there. That afternoon you know Bundy is really sort of a catalyst for just the feeling of you know justice to sort of feeling of fear that you know he was grabbing girls everywhere, and there was just that there's just that atmosphere We were scared. This was truly nineteen twenty five truly kind of the era of the drifter You know there were. There were no

no real way of you know people you know kind of keeping tabs on each other. You know there's no still! No cell phones, there! No, can you know there are no real computers, a cell like the police are going to instantaneously, be able to trace credit card receipts or atm use, or anything like that, and that's really what TED Bundy was doing around that time was sort of going on these hunting expedition is around you, know, Colorado and Utah, and so he's sort of He sort of part of that Grand Junction also sits on interstate seventy, it's the largest city between SALT Lake and and so it's a major thoroughfare for all sorts of sort of you know once he re guys were passing. You know you know, passing through town. I think that you here, with a two or three of the ten of the FBI's most wanted were caught around

they were caught on or around. I. Seventy here. There is a large transient population. I mean it was a really. You know like I said before it. It was a small town that was bracing for an oil ship, boom. There was sort of an influx of new money and just. People started showing up in town, and Nobody really knew who any of these new people were. There were transients, you know like I said there were sort of truck drivers and you know in all these people. You know all these people sort of stopping often mixing with the local. You know every so often there be, you know a big bar fighter. You know a stabbing you know the things were really sort of about to go bad there. Now you talk about in your book that the extent that the police in Grand Junction went to the extent that they went to try to find the

the perpetrators of these murders- and so they looked at peeping, toms and flashers and stalkers, and prank callers and sex offenders. Tell us what the police rushing's and from in the police force do what's their next. What's the next step, an what is the extent as I alluded to two try to find the perpetrators yeah I mean they did hundreds of interviews I mean they really left. No stone went on as far as they had the the chief of detectives flew to Quantico to meet with the FBI, and they did a you know. The behavioral analysis unit was a kind of a new thing in nineteen. Seventy and so you know, the chief of Detectives, Texas went to Quantico to meet to spend a week with to be real analysis unit, and he came back with a sort of

generic sketch of you know like out of out a mannequin forty seventeen year old with you know, like you know, since you have to sort of you know or attachment disorder or something you know like They were looking for a young man who, he knows did not like being in the in the in the boys, locker room after Jim and was into and had maybe set fires and me had me- be tortured animals Had you know somebody would have tattoos or you know they, they thought gosh. You know like they were looking for somebody who maybe worship Satan. You know they sort of this laundry list of you know. Kind of one of the investigators would later call it sad, scientific, wild, ass guesses, you know

And so yeah I mean the to the: were they just didn't? Have the technology to solve this case at their dipped at their disposal? There was really nothing that they could have done. You know, I'm not sure that I'm giving up too much by saying, like a dream, you know like one of those pictures that I was talking about was involved and so yeah I mean you know there. There was literally nothing else that they could have done. I mean they just for not getting an answer. Then there was the idea that you had mentioned that they thought that the perpetrator had cut himself and serious enough that they notified all the surrounding hospitals to be on the alert for somebody that might have one them. What was their progress or what was their success in that lead again

nothing I mean they they were. You know that they were they were. You know there was a guy, like you know, a guy who had cut himself. Building. You know like in sort of any enclosure for his chickens. You know, I think, on some roofing He cut his hand. You know there was a young guy who cut himself working at a steakhouse. There was a guy who got a pencil, a pencil point through the sort of the outside of his hand what he was wrestling with a friend you know there is, I mean it was just they just nothing they just you know they went after windows. Other in law. Guy large Lawrence Hammerite, who was you know, sort of you know, I mentioned earlier kind of a I did, but I did generate an alcoholic need sexually abused. Linda She was young and I couldn't they couldn't get anything on him. Like you know, he

by about his alibi, but then there was just nothing. There was nothing that they could put on him, you know, rushing said to me once like you know, you can't lock a guy up for just being an asshole and they had not. You know they wanted him. They wanted it to be him, I think, really badly. You know he was a really good suspect and they just they just didn't, have the evidence they just. You know. They had all the sort of blood evidence this all these you know there. Is it a drop of blood from the crime scene that was on on the outside of a check box? That was just a perfect simple. You know perfect sample perfectly place, they found it. You know there was just there was just no way to to match it. You know I mean it will if this this case just really needed the an act. Now, in your book, you talk about young girls, turning up dead everywhere in the western United States, Washington Utah

Colorado found naked frozen out in the woods, raped, beaten, mutilated, strangled, skulls caved in. And the other women had vanished and so was nobody, so it was dozens, a girl. So what is a tell us about agent, Bob Perkins and the connection with junction and what they do with this sort of information that they're getting from these other states about missing women and murdered women. So I think Bob Perkins had just noticed that all these girls that were missing

Kind of look alike: you know they were all you know, late teens, pretty long, dark hair that they parted down the middle in he started. So this is. This is actually sort of funny when, when I was reporting so talk to junction to to to rushing in from about one force with that and Doug made it clear to me that even in nineteen, seventy five, the free serial killer wasn't really being used at all anywhere. And Perkins Perkins just noticed that these goals- all look alike. You know when they were all sort of you know the ones who covered for you know that all the same thing it it you know all died in sort of a similar manner. You know brutally, and he just he started to formulate this theory that you know all of these deaths were connected and that you know that suspicions sort of links up with accounts of this guy named

Head who's driving, you know I can beat all around the you know right around the western states grabbing girls either there had been a a couple of buddies potential victims, got away and and gave being a police police reports and here's one of GOSH one of my music Old friends and first reported really really bizarre activity. I think maybe it was in Washington, state or Utah. Maybe. And so they knew about the new serve theory about this guy TED. He was, I mean he was really, I think the you know kind of it all the harbinger, a harbinger of bad things injunction. He he got the sellers and on on on April, twenty. Fourth, now what was the rushing in from react?.

In two. You know TED Bundy, being a potential culprit in Linda Bentsen's, murder and her and her daughter Kelly. How far do they go in and. Tell us about their yeah. Well, you know I mean investigation into that yeah. You know what Linda's you know the sort of it's it's strange. You know the the the Bundy Bundy struck in grand junction in in April and making good, if you know, as as the as the book as the the Bunny Investigation WAR on as a sort of started, collecting good intelligence on him. You know it yeah after he was stopped in SALT Lake kind of I think that was in the fall, maybe August or or September, and

sort of started. Put that you know there is a a kind of up a a kind of regional call to arms amongst police departments, about this guy TED and what, where he'd been, and what he's done in as they started to look for him, You know rushing in from remembering that Bob Perkins had had sort of like pointed to all of these girls who sort of look the same like you know, Linda Benson, like Denise Oliver's, and you know pretty brown hair long that they parted in the middle from in rushing definitely checked on Monday's whereabouts. On the night of the on the night of the murders, and there was just no way that it could have been it could have been Monday. He was another one that was actually fairly easy to eliminate. I think it was based on credit card records.

It is incredible, though, that that that's where Bundy was on April. Sixth, and yet he was not the killer of these two women that is and you're talking about a place. That's what twenty thousand people. Yeah. I think it was about two and and twenty five thousand people yeah yeah. I mean it's just I mean he, he I think he struck in. Was it and tell you ride an asp in? I think he grabbed a girl in Snowmass, which is not far from from Grand Junction at all yeah. He was definitely that area. You know that I seventy corridor, you know it's Denver to salt Lake in a couple hours and and there's really not much. You know, there's Grand Junction in their sort of a couple resort towns along the way, but really really not much ASP in you know tellurides not far.

But yeah. It's kind of amazing. I mean just all of the all. Just the concentration of evil around that time in that place is really staggering. It really is absolutely so rushing and from our again hard at work and trying to find who is the culprits. How do police proceed? We're talking about him signing for a lot of time, there actually in there actually really sort of interesting characters. You know sort of in the tradition of you know, sort of I was I've been reading. A lot of. I think I mentioned this to you earlier. I've been reading a lot of Cormac Mccarthy at the time and and also a lot of sort of hard boiled writing. So It was sort of like really thinking about like two traditions and sort of you know the western or you know, sort of the border, trilogy books and also sort of old, detective novels

yeah I I was reading the David peace over the Red, the David Peace Trilogy. Right around that time too, and the thing that I love about rushing in from as characters is that they're both you know when this happened. You know they were both detectives, but they were so both like twenty three and twenty four years old. So they were really. You know they were kids, they were children And they were you know, you know sort of in and out I was sort of trying to operate in this. You know the tradition of, like you know, A hard boiled detective novel, but these guys were just like the softest boil, guys boiled guys there ever were you know, like you know Jim was like a wealthy kid is, do you know who's got along to local golf club and Doug, you know was sort. Had a dad. That was you know bad.

All I can really violent an Doug really sort of dependent on his mom and his sisters, and to this day is he's a really soft spoken, very sweet, very sent, sort of guy, and so you know it was sort of fun to interact with those characters and sort of like try to understand how to completely innocent twenty three year old, kids or dealing with this. You know with these murders. And I and I- and I really truly believe that they were really trying to just get by you know they were. I think they were really just trying to survive they ran down. You know. Really every lead. There was, I mean I I think you know I I I I think that they were two very different guys. You know w sort of soft spoken and from a sort of to these days, it's sort of as a a real chip on the shore

and they were you know they complemented each other? Well, you know from the first guy to sort of like now down the door, but rushing wants to around a lot longer and sort of like look at evidence, or he always wants to do the actual interview. He knows that he was re thorough very for very analytical cops. They really you know they ran it out. They ran it out to the end from told me the day that he knew that they weren't going to catch. Him was the day that they were given a new profile of the killer and they were they were interviewing Man between the ages of eighteen and forty, one who got pornographic materials sent to their house and on the top of the list was like from best friend who was just this really

you know gentle guy, who there is no way that he had killed when the fence and just no way he knew it, and he can. You know that was just sort of the end point for them. You know that but that that was that afternoon that they realize they were never going to catch the sky, that he was just going to walk, free and get away with it. Hey sure enough. So here goes yeah when cold it it really went, colds kind of about a month and a half after the bodies were discovered, or so you know by month month and a half after that. You know Jim and Doug sort of stopped working. You know, eighteen hour days and, and you know, started playing golf again. Yeah now tell us briefly about the KEN Bottom trial, whose can bottom

then. Why is? Why? Is this part of the story as well and how well you know I mean Martin was a really intelligent, super intelligent fellow who lived in town. You know kind of you know by all, You know by all accounts, sort of a super really guy who worked as a film producer, I believe in he lived with his wife Patricia and their two boys, the younger one is. And I can't recall the name of the the older boy and they lived across the river you Ray Avenue not far from the Chateau apartments. They lived across the street from a young woman who is in her early 20s and had two boys. Her name is Linda Miracle, and I

It was in MID August about a month, or so after the and gals turned up dead, bottom, along with Linda Miracle and the miracle boys vanished? And just you know, nobody knew they went? I mean sort of. It was clear that they were snatched from this house. You know there was food still on the table and you know I think one of the burners on the stove was still going. But they just they didn't know where these two women had vanished issued a sort of thought. You know. Pat bottom, is, you know very on happily married. Maybe they all took off, but you know that they were weird things like cap off, kids were still there and sore her glasses in six. In one of her shoes was still there. You know like things that people, presumably we take with them if they were

You know, bailing on an unhappy marriage were still in the house and so uh you know there was never ruled a homicide. You know nobody know nobody, no homicide. Until the bodies were found, gosh eating six or seven weeks later. Maybe you know, like I think late October right And yeah I mean there was just a sort an orgy of evidence pointing to come off of blood on this car. You know why are you know that when the bodies were recovered, they were the hands were bound with sort of a pretty heavy. The wire yeah, and so they you know they can matches on wire cutters and wire, but

you know I mean what I really wanted to do with this book and with the you know, with Bundy and with the bottom, the bottom cases really just trying to create atmosphere. You know, and- and you know, some sort its atmosphere. It's it's sort of you know there was a lot of. There was a lot of talk around I found that all of these murders were linked together. You know: why else would all these young women be going missing? You know it's, it's a it's. You know they have to be connected if it's not if, if it's not Bundy, it's got somebody else and- and what's going on that, all these all that all these women are disappearing in so somehow from in rushing and up investigating this this this bottom case hill into this day, you know bottom has since been mister. Bottom a sense been twice convicted of these murders.

It is either a just that there's a lot of you know. A large faction of people around town that are are absolutely sure that he's innocent. You know that it was somebody somebody else to do the count. Notice- this role even more of a monkey wrench into the story and to add sort of again. I think Your story is to that. No, He knows who anyone really is and that's why, when people point fingers it low it's like they might be a logical suspect, but it turns out that they're, not at all so the yeah everybody's, already yeah everybody's a suspect and nobody's done it. You know I mean it's just um you know there. There are. There are sort of a number of other young women downtown who, after the bottom, disappearances and- After all, that's going on more women are disappearing, you know there, another girl sort of in December is found strangled in her bathtub.

And they don't know any, never find that guy either. You know I mean it's just there was just sort of there is no relief, even sort of you know I sort of often feel, like you know, like an arrest just this is something that frequently will offer relief and then- just no relief like that either you know and and sort of, I think the police department. Really. We almost lost control of the town, the people, the people were so scared, It in. I think in a lot of ways. That's what I really wanted. The first half of this book to be about as sort of a town unraveling sure let you know that that certainly happens

You know and sort of that real feeling of fear around town sort of pervades, until the middle of like one thousand nine hundred and seventy six or sort of fall of seventy six when uh when Mister Boffin is convicted. One other thing is that a guy named Steve Gold in nineteen, seventy, six or so- and this doesn't come out a little bit later, but he sees something about TED Bundy on TV and sees Bundy's face and at that time says later on. He says that I recognize that guy, and I saw him at the chateau, so tell us a little bit about just this little part of the story but yeah. You know it's funny, so Steve good with this sort of he's still a character he's one of the guys I found and he had a he had a roommate and these eyes were sort of they're making a lot of money tending bar to local it'll. You know sort of it'll at a local local club.

And they were really into like racing hot rods. And and they go to his buddy Clint or in the parking lot at the chateau one night, and they saw a guy use the night that when the vessel murdered, they see you guys sort of like we've deportment building and and you know, look like he was sort of like you know, sort of clutching at his hand or something and go got it, give him a good book in the eye and the way it goes put it to Maine. He said I thought I thought we were going to rumble like the guy. Just was scary, looking and and look at them very aggressively and yes, so I think I think he waited like what like six six months or eight months to contact the police with this, and he was sure that it was TED Bundy. The funny thing was that you know that that testimony was largely dismissed.

Because there was some information that Steve was sort of, like God. What's the phrase just like visually unreliable, like he had once he'd once claimed, to see in airplane crash on a golf course and swore that he saw the airplane crash on the golf course, but no airplane ever crashed on the golf course in Grand Junction, so they were just sort of like you know this guys this guys fruit loops. You know sort of nuts so that in eighty eight his testimony was eventually dismissed, but yeah I mean they ran down everything I mean, and it seems like the the best in case, which is officially closed in seventy six every every couple years. Somebody would come forward and claim to know something, and they would you know there is you know one of Linda's, mom or Linda's mom Barbara had a had a husband.

She had several husbands. I think she'd been married like eight or nine times, but she had a you know. One of her sort of many husbands came to the you know the police and, like you know, seventy nine or eighty and I think Barbara did it. You know I mean it was always sort of It was always sort of being opened in shot, and you know they. Into it or you know, there'd be a lead and they go and get the boxes, but yeah sort of strangely it, yet they just never. They never got their guy. Now, let's talk about the change of guard at the grand Junction, CO, police and terms of the re investigation or they're going to reopen. They get some money from Colorado State of Colorado to open up some cold cases and who opens up the cold cases. And how do they proceed? Tell us about this yeah. I think it was

I think it was essentially you know the federal federal money that had been given to the state during during stimulus during during the great session, and it was much it was money that the State Department could never actually say figure out a way to spend it. So they they give it to the department for to open a cold cases and so what they did was they called in you know, a lot of these old cops had stayed around guys had had you know, sort of headed up the department in the 70s theater in Grand Junction, especially getting RON Smith, who is kind of the chief of detectives and he he ran a kind of a private detective agency after retirement and- and you know all all these guys talk, it's a it's, a really small, really tight knit community, as is, but they came to him, and they said you know, we've got, we've got the. Federal money and we're sort of we're looking for

cold case to investigate, do you have any things sort of strike you as appropriate, and he said oh yeah, you know the Benson case they asked, you know they asked another. The police asked another retired detective. He he gave them the same answer. You know they got to Russia. From and they they gave him the same answers. It was very clear early on that is going to be a lot of a lot of evidence that maybe they could use, I think, is right around thanksgiving of two thousand and eight or so they called in a guy named Larry if there was ever a gentleman who is like sort of made crafted by the Lord to be a law enforcement agent. If it was this guy I mean he is no sort of big strawberry blonde guy with you know, sort of fists like hammers and huge forearms and the thundering voice in the gigantic mustache, and he had been

You know that ahead of forensics- and you know at a police department in gosh New Mexico for years and years and years before retiring and moving to Grand Junction and starting a second career in law enforcement, and they thought he would just end up being. You know, sort of the perfect person to spearhead this thing. You know he took all these boxes of evidence. You know all of the exhibits. All the notes in organized and digitize things in really We created that the the investigation from nineteen seventy five, that from rushing in the sort of other small team of detectives that work with them to put together.

The best in case allegedly, you know his into is, I think, serve as he was getting. It's happened as he was getting to the end of this article, a destination, but they got that's when that the the DNA match came back in so it's it's sort of it's sort of really works neatly for them. In terms of you know that the timing that your board finishes his investigation, he sort of as he sort of has come to the same conclusion that the cops in seventy five did. You know that there is nobody in it. It did make sense in anybody around town. Did this. You know everybody had served. Alibis. You know that, finally, they get sort of you know they they get. The was somebody never suspected now. Let's talk about

because that's where they get through Codis and it's a match- and you alluded to that. His dna was in the system since seventy eight tell us what his. Austria career criminal like was and and then and then tell us who Sandy Higgins is and how they came to speak to San Diegans. Yes, Sir Jerry was just room, I just I mean a bad guy, I mean just you know. Like I I think I think we could is really the only the only work for him. You know we got caught for his first report. He was fifteen. I think he did. You know like five or six years for that first offense, and on the on the on the very day that he was at least he was picked up again and brought to an extra dated to Colorado, for

rate that he committed like a day or two after his after his first assault, and he played he put the you know he pled guilty and one when away again, for you know another seven years and then you know sort of drip around and ended up in grand junction who was passing bad checks did another four years and it was just sort of he was in and out over and over again it just yeah. I mean I, I can't think of anything to say about it other than he was just a real like just a really rotten character, you know during during my research I actually covered a really sort of gosh, probably three or four hundred peach stack of letters that he had exchanged for with a woman after he was put back in jail in nineteen. Seventy eight for

for a a repeated tempted murder- and he I mean these letters are just I mean I I mean it's just sort of kind of like a map of the cycle paths mind if they're, if they're sort of fascinating So that has got this use. A guy who's sort of in his life is never really done anything and has a really. You know high opinion of himself and nothing. Nothing is ever his own fault and you know there. There are sort of all these really dad sexual innuendos, and I just really a guy who's, clearly, not comfortable with who he is and he's. You know you can tell he's you know, he's lonely in these desperate, and you know We can sort of every once in awhile. You sort of like he'll write something and it gives you a glimpse of sort of like you're sort of reminded like oh, this guy is a serial rapist. You know I mean it. He was just

yeah. I mean a really bad guy. I think in seventy four he was released from prison for passing some bad. Checks and he met a woman at in Denver named Cindy Higgins. Sandy was a divorcee who had moved to. Who had moved to Grand Junction, I think from Chicago maybe, and She had a waitressing job and she met Jerry at a nightclub and they just sort of fell in together. She lived really hard You know, and I think they were sort of you know they were sort of a mess together. You know, I think they were in a in a lot of ways. It seems like they were kind of perfect for each other and in in just that they really were kind of a mess together. You know there was.

You know, like a lot of a lot of boozing that went on so you know. They found Jerry, found a job at a print shop in Grand Junction and then after injunction? They were in California for awhile and they were back in Denver and then they were sort of. I think he went, went up to work in the oil patch like Wyoming or Idaho, she went with him until eventually they they broke up and then he can in another rape and he was in jail again from traffic, is from seventy to like ninety, eight or so or seventy seventy seven thousand and seventy six to ninety eight yeah. When he was really So it's crucial tell us about how hard was or not hard. It was getting the information from Sandy Higgins about the night that, despite this.

Dna evidence. They need a little bit more evidence, and this certainly is a lot more evidence in terms of him coming to the home and what she witnessed so tell us about that, and how hard or easy it was to get that information from Sandy Higgins. Sure so that they could have Shin police they they can mean a sort of a a little cold case unit to work on this case together and in the end, besides Leri Bullard, you know, Larry Board sort of took the stick, the case to think they conclusion that he could, which was that nobody Grand Junction committed the murders. Then they had the dna evidence that the I came in if they prove that this guy Jerry Numb Neck who's, the stricter was the culprit and with the police they needed to do, was they needed to figure out if you're tearing of Nick was ever in grand junction at that time, where he lives to see. If there is any sort of proximity to defense and play

if he had known, Linda, Benson and and what was the connection because they didn't have a murder weapon. So they need all this, the the you know it and and they also needed a dna sample to test against the sample that they have from nineteen. Seventy eight enter test against the samples that were taken from underlings when his fingernails and from the the bread on the on the on the cereal box in so they dispatched these two detectives, Crockett and Bennett, both really great guys from Grand Junction and and these guys start travel in the United States. Tracking down people who are friends with cherry In the 70s- and they got the those names through looking at the visitors logs at the prisons were Jerry had done time and just sort of then by word of mouth. So

you know, and they sort of worked in these circles. So at the center of the circle was Jerry and since they didn't want to um, they don't want to tip them off about the investigation. They started on the outside of the circle, which is a sort of common common device or sort of a common strategy that a lot of journalists like Bob Woodward would use, and so they sort of started, circling Jerry and so the first round of people that they wanted to talk to are the ones who are sort of farthest from him. So it was actually they started by talk and with the woman that he had raped in the past and sort of figured out what was his mo. And then you know. Eventually, you know they talked to some other people, that sort of New Jersey in the 70s and then just when they thought that they were getting a little too close. That's when they got their arrest warrant in brought Nemnich in so after they brought Nemic in they

it may have him in custody, that's when they got on the road and they started talking to people that they knew were really close with Nick in the 70s and eventually they they get, This sort of little town Winnetka that from yes sort of on the border of it Joy and Indiana, and she in this sort of scrappy old House and she's. Clearly very lady. They could you know they could smell the cats from outside and she just had. Just very little memory I mean, I think, had sort of been erased by a life of boozing. And she she just was not really able to recall anything at first and then you know that they thought I think Benetton Going into that interview had thought that that was going to be the one that sort of wrapped it up for them

oh yeah, you know we knew when defense from acts or you know Jerry. Took in the like to her, because why or yeah we used to have threesomes with the bensons, I mean there would be something some some recognition of the name. You know this interview is going to be. It was going to yield some result for them, and Sandy didn't remember anything until the next morning when she calls Bennett on his cell phone and says you know, I do remember Jerry having an injury. He came home one night and I remember because he was wearing my favorite. He had these sherbert yellow server, yellow nylon, pants that I used to love on him and they were covered in blood and then she said you know, and then the next day we took off too Denver, and so they, you know, I think, Crocker and and and Bennett

then go to Rhode Island and they find the guy that jury in Sandy had stayed with in Denver, and it turned out that you know Sandy could not remember the address where they lived in right because they were trying to establish proximity, and so they, how were staying with in Denver was this guy named George would work in a liquor store and Jerry had passed. Two bad checks in this liquor store. And the guy George who went walked. You know, works behind the counter and was putting jury up its sleeve. These checks for thirty four years, because he is positive that he was going to encounter Jerry Nemnich at some other point in his life and wanted like. I want my fifty dollars, so I'm and on these checks. Jury had scribbled out their address in Denver and had written on the checks. Two thousand eight hundred and fifty Texas Avenue Grand Junction Colorado.

And Crockett, seeing that immediately knew that two thousand eight hundred and fifty Texas is about is a little is a little it's little trailer on a sort of on a corner in a pretty nice little development like it's pretty nice little trailer park, you know it's like it's clean you know, and it's about a mile and a half from the chateau in Crockett knew it that was sort of like one of the big moments for them that that that date, they proximity to sort of about you know maybe like a mile a mile in eight. If it did did that the the Democrats and it's in the in the chateau- and that was that was really one of the things that I think he'll be deal for, those guys was was getting that address quit so that only you know you sort of some of the the the please one with one place. Where is sort of the police department

failed was there is an old cop name, Wilcox that lived right across the street from from Jerry and um in sandy, and he said that you know that screaming, and fighting and sort of we've heard noises coming from the the mnemonic residents all the time and and will just never looked into Jerry. I mean it. Never. It never occurred to him even after he saw him with a you know. The bandage on my hand, to look into incredible now. What we will we have to talk about the trial. Little been, which is very very unusual, as you know, is that NAM Niche takes the stand. So tell us a just a little bit about the trial but especially manage taking the stand for them. For them, then, that your name Nick, I'm I'm I'm, I I we sort of sing them to check

I think that the the pronunciation goes either way, but he was, was represented by a really really skilled defense team from Denver- and you know just rushing said to me sort of years later that he thought that Nick was going to get off. You know that the this is defense team has created just enough doubt that he he thought that the jury might buy. It. And then Nick takes the stand and gives just sort of the most outrageously really just the most outrageous testimony. In the history of perjury. I mean just you know really just unbelievable. He claims that, like you, know, he's at the

one night and he gets talking to what is it like? A six foot, seven indian- and you can't tell if this this you know this in need- is male or female, and the in the Indian says. Oh hey, you know We take me to get a little marijuana, and so they go to the chateau and then the guy disappears and he it's around and he's gotta pee. So he goes into the chat. The hallway to look for this six foot- seven indian, but you know like. He see him, but he does see that there's a door open and it happens to be the door were we're winding and Kelly are and just as he walks in he's he's he's he's figure who we can't tell if that figures, male or female, coming at him. With the knife raised over his head and Jerry's gotta fight the knife out of his hand, and he does the guy drops the knife and runs out of the apartment and Jerry picks up the

life and throws it in the kitchen that so the blood got everywhere and then he he can see. You know the bodies from uh from sort of the kitchen area, which is actually an impossibility because of because of the weird hallway that I was talking about earlier. The bodies were blocked from view, and so we have this just in I mean really the most poorest testimony ever and and he is convicted. I you know, I I I I think the which can fairly quickly. You know, I think that jury spent a lot of time, sort of going over things and um and and kind of reviewing all of the evidence because they wanted to get it, get it done right. But in the end, I don't think there was ever much question that his testimony was just ridiculous. Yeah.

Now what what would you say in terms of you know you you right in the epilogue OB post about the story itself. So what did you come away for from from this story the killing season. What was in the most profound, I guess the fact of what what really struck you. I think, after reading this book, what struck me was I've. You know for me, it's all about from Russia, For some reason you know I mean like so in the years in the years since those murders, Steve, Benson, disappeared, sort, has lived his life entirely off the grid. He he It's largely as kind of a permit are

Mcgill, Wilderness and New Mexico, and- and so you know, he did it. What what struck me is just the way that these murders thirty five years ago have just utterly destroyed lives. You know like Steve Benson, as has been on the road sort of Hiding from this- and I don't think, fighting for and and I'm not saying that he's been hiding from it because he's guilty of it, I think what happened to him find finding finding those people who were you know that the two people in the world that he love the most so utterly wrecked him that he had to run away. You know you know when Linda's family, you know Linda Linda Step sister and her little brothers like Linda Step sister, was just absolutely ruined by this. She went she she went,

she lost her mind. You know she. She had problems for years and years and years, one his mothe to who I also I mean she lost two daughters like I, I feel for her now upgrading, but she was not a woman who had a really profoundly positive impact on her daughter's life, but nonetheless, no parent deserves to lose somebody that way. And then for for rushing in from who, I think you know, Doug told me that he went to one of those Dale Carnegie. When is Dale Carnegie Conferences, they had one of the holiday Inn and I think in in Grand Junction or in Golden a couple years back, and he got to thinking about. You know there question that he had answer during one of the exercise, which was you know if you think really honestly with yourself. What is the most profound thing that has ever happened to you like? What is this thing? That is changed your view of the world most and he thought he thought he thought

and russian couldn't think of anything that happened to him. That was more important. In that case, you know same same, but from you know these. He he quit the for service sort of you know asked to leave the force shortly after shortly after those murders are not too long after those murders and he he don't opened up and has had a pretty successful, One is an accountant, but again you know he would find himself thinking about that case. What did we do wrong? What what? What did we miss? You know what what did we? find? What could we have done better over and over again for thirty plus years and in Finally, there's some relief. You know I mean For me. It was always about sort of that kind of redemption. You know like I'm not sure, I'm not sure Steve Benson's ever going to get better.

Or he's ever going to feel better. But with that what happens then, but like at least at least that part of his life is over now you know at least he can do something else and the same thing with rushing in from you know. At least those guys can can rest easy on that now. You know, I think the thing that I got most out of it was just sort of that feeling of relief in that redemption. For those people. Yeah, it's a it's an it's an incredible tale of how much misery and tragedy one small area can insure and be touched by this, the Arnold to some credit Evil for such a small area for a time that we again don't think of nineteen? Seventy five is a good old days, but it was a more innocent time and yet the evil that was present in this area over a good

create years and then, like you say, thirty five year cold case cast a APOLLO on on neighborhood in the community as well too so sure incredible story. For those that might want to contact you due to Facebook. You have a website tele. Sorry, in my case, worker I'm on twitter, or if you want to reach out to me directly, how you can reach me on my email: is french dot Alex DOT M at mgmail dot com? What I want to thank you very much Alex are coming on and talking about the killing season, incredible story, and thank you for this interview. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me on.

Well, I hope to talk to you again sometime soon and thank you and have a great evening goodnight. You too, bye, bye,. When you drive with uber what moves you moves us? That's why we maintain auto liability insurance on your behalf, so you have peace of mind right from the start. What moves me? That's! A big question, definitely family! I just want them to know. I do this for them and then I'm ok when I'm out there boo What moves you moves us get started with auto liability coverage when you sign up to drive with us at uber dot com, Slash driveexperiences, uber mayberry

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