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Good evening. This is your host Dan Zupansky for the throat. True murder, the most shocking killers in true, time history and the authors, written about them on January tenth, two thousand and thirteen Kendrick John,

since parents, we don't get the flavors of computer back in a big way, we're talking con king donuts, pumpkin, muffins, pumpkin munchkins, don't have holes. Oldboy, pumpkin, coffee, pumpkin, iced, coffee, pumpkin, frozen copy, pumpkin, latte scanned the exciting new cinnamon sugar pumpkin signature latte, which has got sugar and spice and everything nice. It's pumpkin flavored everything at Dunkin America runs on Dunkin and pumpkin cake, ipods to limited time. Offer participation can kick it used under license order their seventeen year old Son missing the next day. It's Kendricks School Lowndes High School in Valdosta Georgia in the gym students saw what they thought was a pair of socks, sticking out of the gym mat when they approached they told investigators. They realized it was a body

two lounged county sheriff. Chris Prine Kendrick Johnson died, while reaching into an upright gym mat in the old gym on January tenth, trying to retrieve a sneaker that had fallen inside instead. Kendrick fell in couldn't get out and smothered to death from positional officiation. The original autopsy report ruled Johnson's death, an accident stating that the teen suffocated, while getting stuck in a gym mat while reaching for a sneaker However, Johnson's parents weren't convinced it was an accident and they got a court order to have their sons body exhumed. The second autopsy report showed the teen's death was not an accident stating that Johnson had sustained non accidental blunt force trauma

ring in an autopsy. Eternal organs are removed and examined before return for burial when the private pathologist, who conducted the second autopsy on Johnson Open up fifteens remains the brain heart lungs, liver. Another vysera were missing. Every organ from the pelvis to the skull was gone and had been replaced with newspaper federal prosecutor. Now, Michael Moore is re opening the case these cases we're featuring this evening. The story that we were talking about is the Kendrick Johnson murder, with my special guest, Fred, Rosen and Beau Webster. Welcome back to the program gentleman, Fred, Rosen and Beau Webster my pleasure, sir, thank you very much, have a thank you. This is incredible story and I'm glad to be involved in any way.

A shape or form, as I had thought when I first was notified of this story with Fred rose, and this is an incredible case now. I think I really do believe this. It's gaining the. Tension attention that so really does deserve. So, let's get to a question, I think it is important. This, maybe we start off with you. First Bo Webster tell us what your background is and how you came to be involved with this particular case. The Kendrick Johnson case. Well, my name is Beau Webster, I'm a private investigator in Florida, and Sia my I'm a is Webster's investigative services out of Tallahassee Florida and back the first part of February.

I was called by the family attorney to come to Valdosta and look at the case If I was interested in maybe pursuing the investigation, my background is law enforcement and South Florida and Fort Lauderdale area for years, and I've had my private investigators, licensing agency for the past eight years. Where we do all types of investigative work. A lot of high profile criminal. Bases along with large murder cases. I I went to Valdosta and actually met the attorney representing the family and that, MR, MRS Johnson, at that time,.

And came on board as a investigator to try to determine what exactly happened to for seventeen year old Son, Kendrick, Johnson, ok, the same question for you, Fred, not everyone knows your reputation as an author, but uh tell us a little bit about your background and how you came To be involved with this occasion why, while I'm a true crime author, I've been a true crime authors for about the last twenty years. Actually part of that I was a columnist for the arts and leisure section of the New York Times. And I am, I worked on, the number of murder cases over the years, probably twenty some odd throughout the United States and

the net for Webster gentleman from Tallahassee in a courtroom, two thousand eleven SEP worry during the trial of Gary Chilton. I was working on a book called trails of death, which was about Hilton who's, a serial killer and killed people in HI and in three three states, and then I sort we continue to talk and to each other and, sometime around all I'd April of this year, vote called and told me about this: young man who's, who had been discovered in the old GM at this high school in Valdosta, I didn't even know it that's the was and you know I'm I'm Listenin, which is going down the the I ninety five corridor on the EAST coast of the United States. You know and he's gone, you know through the you know, the coastal area, and they both told me that he had this boy had been discovered rolled up in a gym that dead, and I took one

the photograph which look like his face. It didn't at the time. We thought that the you've been the face of the man. We since discovered it. It was either dead. The damage is the result of of of what occurred, but in any case it. It make much sense to me and, quite frankly, you know, I I I have a child and as as do most of the people working on this case and as soon as I I realize you know that the parents did at that point, at any other resources as far as anybody to investigate and then with exception, of course, Mister Webster. I said that I gave you know and then what I did was I got someone else involved who I work with and and I started investing meeting and working with bow and I was. I went down to Georgia back in June, but when I then went to see

The one of the people involved in the case, who was a paramedic who was the first on the scene, and that's when I knew that this thing was pretty serious, because that paramedic, when they try to talk to him, was extremely scared I've never seen an individual as scared is. This guy was an, I knew something was up, and so I just stayed on it with both. Tell us a little bit more about that conversation with the paramedics. Please. UT? whoever is better suited basically what happened was we went out to talk to this carnatic hooplehead identified through his investigation is the first

seen any have some some other information he was. It was just basically going to. Basically, all we wanted you, see, etc, etc, and he came out of house- and I I I I actually I I I I just wrote about this- is this something and he came out of the south. He was holding his son and when folks claim that he was there to talk about cancer Johnson, this guy's a flawless I mean he died in his voice that he was really your voice trembled and he was good art and he wouldn't talk to us. He was very polite. You said you know, go go talk to the the hospital that I work for some into the of that nature. He went back in his house closed the door boat turned to me and said Fred. These people are scared, and I you know I sort of looked around me and you know I.

It's a bit paranoid at that moment to be honest with you Dan and it it that's exactly the way that I felt the entire time I was in Valdosta, which is like somebody was watching, and I I'm convinced now that there are individuals there that we're keeping track of with us and I don't think we're being paranoid about it because will have to get to the truth, and there are people who don't want the truth to be out now for all those in the audience that you don't know about this case as of yet because we have a the significant international audience. Maybe we can. Maybe one of you can go through the official story as it unfolded in terms of what what the again the, what what character said? What and when and what exactly

did they impart to the public. So we're talking about the sheriff and we're talking about the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, so maybe Fred, you can tell us what or or bowl what exactly was the report in the beginning? Again bow you do about the story first, so maybe you can tell US What you first knew, what was the official line and who are the players, the characters that were imparting, this information to the media. Well, when I, when I started the investigation. Naturally, you know the the victim Kindred John Seventeen year old black male student was, he went missing January tenth from his third or fourth block, which would be somewhere between one hundred and thirty pm and three hundred o'clock on

and thirsty afternoon, which would be the tenth of January. And he was laughing in the hallway of the school and entering the gymnasium, which is the secondary gymnasium because they have they have a new or large facility that they play most of their most of their vast ball games in any any other kind of activities. Or in the the newer complex. So this is called like a secondary gym and there's their surveillance cameras in the gymnasium as well as you know, the surroundings of of the school, and he never reported to his third or fourth block. So he was missing and he went that evening. Missing

never came home, which was very unusual for him. To the parents- They would always have contact with Kendrick and he would call if he was running late and and let them know that maybe staying after for a basketball game- or you know some other activity at school and he didn't show up at home later that night and the parents will concern naturally and three clock in the morning four hundred o'clock in the morning. You know it's still a school night and he still missing and no word from Kendrick. And so then there is a mission report made the next morning and uh Kendrick's body was found around nine third between nine between nine thirty and one thousand o'clock on Friday morning by stew.

And by the faculty members of the high school, and that's when it's just it's the stranger case that I think I've ever worked and invest creation or in law enforcement. Where there's just so much so much evidence that that was never collected and gathered, and the sheriff's department naturally was notified immediately that there was a Body found in the gym and the body was found vertically wrapped up inside of a wrestling mat. And that's what alarmed everyone an all of a sudden, the sheriff's department becomes involved in an investigation and Georgia. Bureau of investigation was notified to respond as well

generally the corner is notified immediately when there's a death or a or a victim, maybe in a crime and The corner was not notified until later on in the day, which was maybe around between four hundred and four hundred and thirty in the afternoon, which is very odd. And the call glad Well, if I may ask what happens in terms of the players is this we didn't battles a boat that was you know summarize. It is, of course, extremely well within hours, the family is told by Stride Jones who's, one of the index

It is working for us sure of Chris Fine that there was no evidence of foul play and which is a very strange thing to say when you just starting an investigation least. That's that's my personal opinion on this. I've never heard of anything like this, and I concur with all that. This is the strangest case that I've certainly work and then, within maybe forty eight hours. What with with only the the preliminary autopsy results in not the complete autopsy results show, of course, tells the media that hundreds died by reaching into this Matt and it's huge Matt. It's like it's at least six feet tall and he reached in the worst his balance he fell in, he couldn't get out and he was in such a position that

he couldn't breathe and he died, and that's it end of story and and, at the same time, W Taylor, who is the superintendent of the school district, sends out a press release saying oh, this is an awful thing. We hope that the family will get over this. You know now it's time to mourn etcetera, etcetera. It's like everybody just wanted to sort of like pushing aside. In wipe it away. We one little problem. Then okay which is that the closing that Kendrick is wearing disappears. He is the mat disappears, as you pointed out, by the time the body is thank you to doctor Anderson, Dr William Anderson and in Orlando, for the second autopsy. The Libyans have disappeared any to date, this surveillance video has disappeared.

So what do you make of all of that? Yes, you make of all of that and at the same time, the most according to element. I think of this is this search heroes. Investigation does the autopsy. The results don't come out until May, the second and they claim against positional. A sixty, except is one little problem conditionally six, yeah I mean would mean that the boys lungs would have filled with fluid as a result of suffocation. His lungs in the report wait. The normal amount, which means he didn't die from positional, is Fixie. That is a key to understanding this whole thing, and he even though this doctor comes out with this report Gvrd refuses to take a look at it. They refuse

to review what the doctor is. That way, their own findings and said it the sheriff and they just close the whole thing. They don't say anything, you know you just fell in, Oh and I might get one other thing We have a an email from Eiji Bri Executive, in which this individual says, I for sure he was reaching for a book containing to get their stories straight. What I will be in in Albany dot com. Where I'd been reporting on this, they can't get their stories straight, yeah, it's it's. It's it some ways. It is mind. Boggling we can get away with it. Becaus the dealing with the authorities in Georgia, and you know I'm pretty straight forward and and some of the time and what I said right, walking into the nineteenth century: okay,

people people in the most. This thing that I really need to emphasize is this: if you african, American and you're in Georgia, your set in most places second class citizens in especially in a place like they'll prospect, your second class citizens, even though this is the twenty first century, people are scared. People, are scared and they're scared of the cops and they're scared of talking, and, of course, that makes the job that much tougher and now I'll just shut up and let both off for the rest of this show no what I found internally. This is BO the inside the core of that mad at them at is about six foot or a little taller than that, but the inside hardcore that Matt is around fourteen inches I in diameter, and

Kendrick shoulders from tip to tip were nineteen or a little over nineteen inches. I tried myself the Father Kenneth tried. We both made attempts to try to get our bodies inside of the core that Matt and we're unsuccessful. We were not able to do it. So that phone challenges that I mean there's just no way that he could conceive globally, just push himself down or jump into is the inside of that Matt and I sexy asian three retrieve what is it had to be either tennis shoes or a book There are. There are two different stories to that and. You know he was a triathlete, So we was in great shape core. Into is bad. He was very

strong and able to take care of himself so even if he was inside of a mad, he would have been able to knock the mat down and- and get out of the map, but it just. Doesn't make any sense, and probably a couple months after I started the invested well immediately after I started the investigation, I started asking for the surveillance tapes, which was never to this moment has no ever been given to Maine and I think the family, we may be just got some of these surveillance tapes in the last couple few weeks, but I I asked to go into the secondary gym where the body was found week. After I had began this investigation and the family attorney and miss you, Mrs Johnson and myself went

To the gym so that we could go in side of the secondary jam take photographs, take measurements to see where all the surveillance cameras are placed to get ago. The idea of you know what the inside of that Jim looks like and we were told at the front door of the administration office that you're in vestigator is not welcome here today and I mean it really floored me an alarm- the that you know what's going on here. Why can't we go into the gym. And I was turned away, and I was told that expect that call within a week that I could return and then go back into the gym and That call was never made and back probably two weeks after school broke for summer session for summer break that's when I had received notice that

we could go into the gym and take a look at everything. Take her measurements, take photographs and to the secondary gym at that time, which was months after the fact Anne it's I mean it's just very frustrating to me, and I know how frustrating it is for that family too. You know to have to go this. They were allowed to go in the gym that day, but I mean that time use. There's no no evidence whatsoever, probably to gather and all the info nation and all the evidence that we've asked for and all these months at nine or ten max actually ten months now all the evidence, is not available? It's either been destroyed or it's being held somewhere, but I not seen any of the evidence, the at the closing anything

That would pertain to you know to KEN Ricks body or any type of dna that might have been gathered now you talk about the family, but the family has been, has been adamant and Ann dedicated to this cause. So once they've got the official explanation from authorities they Stage daily protest at the courthouse, they were instrumental in the now high attracted attorney, Benjamin Crump and, as a result, they were successful in court getting to be able to exhume their son's body for a second autopsy, so Fred Tell us about that, endeavor that initiative to do that, and what has resulted from that. Second autopsy report sure

Let me just add one thing that, as far as Ben Crump is concerned, oppose being modest Ben Crump was hard at both recommendation. 'cause Bonos, Mister Crump from Tallahassee. So he went amended that to the attorney who is representing the family and that's how He came on board relatively recently now. What happened in terms of the of the second autopsy is that the family petitioned to to disinterred body for a second autopsy. They will. The petition was granted and what makes it interesting is that the petition was granted on. May the folks and that made headlines,

At that point they were very little and there was very little in the way of publicity the following day on May second, the authorities stole the headlines back. That's when they released the results of the first autopsy where they claimed in his position. Six ea shun about six weeks later in the middle of June, and broken comment more on this because he was there. Kendricks body was decentered. You know the vault placed on a flatbed truck taken. Two

Orlando Florida were? Dr William Anderson performed the second autopsy when he body was presented to doctor and a single he he you know he opened up the the body. That's when discovered the organs were missing, but he did something that the first autopsy that had not been done. First, what's not see, and that was he dissected, Kendrick Snack and he discovered a severe hemorrhage and in his opinion he died from one hello to the neck, which caused his heart to stop. That is his opinion and what again, what makes this interesting is that that is that second, autopsy results are widely accepted within the african american community

that within the the white community. Not so it's not so much so you have you. If you have this this, this harmony going on and in it you have, and so, which makes it very very difficult to to get to the truth, because for every step forward that we make in the investigation, somebody else will come back and say you know with some sort of explanation that that that the the second autopsy doesn't have any valid results. For whatever reason, people have actually gone after Dr Anderson, his reputation in order to discredit the results of the autopsy, but it was that autopsy That really we were waiting for the results came in in September and by that time the US attorney.

A Michael J more for the Middle district of Georgia had received the report from the attorney left the family and he'd already started to view the materials and I kid around with Mister blow when I get him on the phone, those actually met him a couple of times. I've only talked on the phone, but when I talk to my girl, are you a federal federal officials during his money. Can you ask and he's a real regular guy, and he is, he is really concerned with getting to the truth and and so that Second Autopsy is really what started to propel things forward and begin to gather some steam- as you pointed out regarding getting attention right, I'm right, the other, the other, the other

thing. Is it's so I guess mind boggling it confusing Dan on this is that there when the funeral arrangements were made for Kendrick, but there were no. He was heavily involved in very active than in all the sports programs football basketball at the high school and when he was buried there were. No, no teams are no players at his funeral, which is very odd I mean it's, it's it's hard to understand, and then, when I was out doing the preliminary investigation and pounding the street every day. Talking to you know with this is and people that might be able to shed some light on and then give anytime of information that might be helpful

I would talk to faculty members and students and faculty members just said that they could not talk they they are forbidden to talk to anyone one pertaining to the investigation, and that I would have to go through their subordinates there. You know, because they would, which stand a chance at losing their jobs losing their retirement. So when you've got people that probably know something, and you can't talk to him, because they're scared and they've been threatened. Then you know it is hard conduct an investigation like that I mean they've even had they've even had faculty members, I guess, leave the school for whatever reason, but it's a sad thing, because this fee family is just having to relive this for ten

and chop Willie eleven months now and and with mister Michael Moore, the US attorney, coming on board here last week when he announced it now, the Department of Justice is on board in looking into it. That has been just a big big help in this case and he's just a a great guy but you know, is looking for justice. And I have met with him on two different occasions. And had meetings with he and his staff two percent, you know all the evidence pertaining to this case and now they can go ahead and move forward and hopefully there's just this right around the corner. Well, you know I've been reading a lot of stuff online in the last little. While

say the story is really gaining a lot of steam, CNN and CP, and, like I mentioned to you, four thousand comments just got

one article so, but the thing is, is that what you're saying? And some of these articles is that there have been some suspects from the high school itself and another suspect from another school, and what I want to mention this to is that even Michael Moore has said that he has he's warning. His jurisdiction is limited as a federal prosecutor, but he said, after a lengthy review of evidence collected by authorities and the family's own investigation of an investigator that sufficient basis exists to warrant a formal review of the facts. Now for us, folks that aren't so familiar with these kinds of things. Tell us what exactly can potentially happen from this. What would be the likely outcome if he does this review and again as a review of re opening of the case or what,

exactly is revealing. What can the review actually lead to? Can I can I take that one, certainly sure, okay, first, what when Michaels uses the end? I I call I'm sorry, I call Michael, but it's just the way it is. You know when you talk like I said when you talk to this guy he's he's he's a regular guy and when, when he, when he's actually done, is opened and then special investigation, Okay and it's a federal investigation versus a county or state investigation and what he can do is he can do one of three things he can charge basically in three different areas, one, all rights violation that is, can Johnson lost his life because he was african

American an. Essentially. This is a hate crime. That's number one number two he can prosecute for if there is corruption on the part of state county agencies he can bring some score, you can bring a criminal action against them for this. So if he finds out that, as we suspect that you have a where you have county and state conspiring to obliterate the truth- just like they've obliterated the evidence he can take action and prosecute in federal court now. The third thing he can do is he can use what is known as the Rico statutes in the states which Origi

they would decide to prosecute the mob or the mafia that have been used successfully to prosecute. When you have a conspiracy, exactly what we're talking about here, where you have a number of different agencies that get together and conspired to conceal the truth, and those agencies can be anything from police agencies It could be, it could be school agencies who could be whatever it might be. But he follows that evidence, and so we do and it's it's it's it's very his start. You know I was it's, it's a sparkle really, because if he He has to make a decision about who has venue is it? The state is at the FED government and he's gotta go on the basis of what the evidence is and A lot of the evidence that he is looking at is the evidence that

BO has gathered in cluding, identifying suspects. So what's happened as we speak, is that Mister Moore has got. Agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation to come down to making Huis met with, and then they would dispatch two valdosta to begin very investigation, interviewing interested parties and then that hill? All of that information into account and make a decision about what he's going to do. But I do well, Sir, that's exactly right. Another question I have is: is that the second autopsy you said it has been. I challenge to a certain degree by some some members of the community. Obviously the police and the people that that the for

autopsy saying that the death was can be attributed to the blunt force trauma and then the heart attack or the heart, stopping, wouldn't it be prudent, I guess to have their own in Vestigator do their own autopsy or is that is that in the realm possibility. Tell me about a color ideas about that. You, I think I will well. I mean it's, the sex I mean we're talking about the second autopsy being performed because you know the body was transferred. To Orlando, and that's where Doctor Anderson perform the second autopsy and and his conclusion was it. You know there was trauma to the body and trauma to the right side of the neck and right side of the jaw, but there you've got

in a g b r I and the local law enforcement agencies it. I guess you know, word hotel naked with that focus. On top, being then Macon Georgia and that's where you know the conflict, Ben and that's where the firm Our initial autopsy first autopsy comes back that there was natural causes as a fixie ation we all knew that that was not the case. I don't know, there's anything you want to add to that or not, but The second autopsy is to have another autopsy done or is is

even any ability in terms of, I really know how the protocol for this, but would not be a good start. Well, she sure you using logic. Eight and you and your aunt, but you but see the thing is that the first World CUP he was challenged. First, I I mean I so it wasn't that the second what's up, she was challenged by the authorities. They didn't, they ever challenged it. They just said we're not going to look at it. They dismissed it. They never asked Adam and and and that and set- and they they're they're not being has Estos Manderson said. Have you call yourself a scientist, when you're not open, and the answer is I'm sorry you're, not a scientist. If that's, this is the way you gonna ask now in terms of doing a third autopsy uh sure I mean I understand exactly what you're saying I don't know how practical that would be

it's not, but it's relevant quite frankly, because it's not going to happen. The state is not interested in doing this. They're they're saying hey this. Is it and members? significant members of the of the White community of backing up the state. So it's a bit, you know if they're not taught see your beautiful opinion, I don't I don't know what do you think I don't think that's going to happen. I don't. I don't see that happening. I would really be surprised if it does, but I don't see that happening at all. I think they've uh. I think everyone knew from the first autopsy that that was not the case and the second autopsy would reveal exactly what everyone thought would happen in the results, and that was that there was trauma to the body, and so now I can't see a thing start up to here.

I mean that would naturally be left up to now. It would be left up to the government and to mister more if they, if he called for a third autopsy, but I just don't see that happening and it so we we've done. We've done so much leg, work on this case and so much paper work and so much paper trail. I mean we've got my paralegal that does a lot of great work for Maine, mad men, that was Stephen R Andrews LAW, firm that he just drawn up motions and drafted so many documents asking for all the government state, Gov and law enforcement agencies, the corn, or funeral homes, our yes first, you know with

just ask for so much information and we've gotten some of it and some of it. We haven't You know we we ask for the county. Commissioners, to have a meeting with US months and months back and they said yes for a while ago heading set it up, however you're going to have to you're going to have to be with our county attorneys. When that meeting takes place- and I said that's not- a problem will be glad to address everything we have with them as well and the phone call never existed, they never got back to us and uh. The school board was the same way. We've asked for meetings with the school officials and that we wanted them to be present so that we could address our issues and find out exactly what was going on in the school and this minute we've never

at that meeting as well they've, never gotten back to us. What's the question I have, and maybe you can answer this fred- is that you know, despite Michael J Morse being able to you know convince you that he's a you know, he's dedicated to finding out the truth in this war room. Okay, is this going to lead to a murder indictment? That's if he does, he have the the power first or what are the stages that they can go that that This can be a possibility, 'cause, that's what we're looking for is to find out who murdered Kendrick Johnson and if he, if you say in the Georgia Bureau, investigation is not going to help out and then the other.

I want to ask. I'm sorry for the convoluted question was what he begins of the organs in both of your minds. Is there any significance? This is the significance at all to those missing organs. What went? Let me answer. The first question, which is the at the first question, is that, if you ask, was welcome Mister Moore do in this two more charge of murder. Absolutely he is if he is, if it falls under the aegis of the. I will go over that if you can show that that can Johnson was denied his civil rights by being murdered by the five individuals that by Webster has already identified. The answer is yes, the answer is yes. Yeah are in terms of in terms of the dragons. I think that that the the organs being missing that would not

in an uncommon thing ten years ago in a special in some some more remote, then he's in the United States, where you going to do is look at it. From this point of view, organs are all organs of a person who do, you think has been killed or evidence good. Ok put it together, the organs are missing from that is missing, building is missing this year. There this video is missing. Somebody somebody's some buddies are hiding something. And one of the great things that you have done then, is result of our last conversation about this back in June uh. The visual heard this in Georgia and he came forward as a source. An Ibf known him. The s

after the Marvel, comic book character because uncommon Loki, and he has helped me understand. Well, that's what I like to be african American in Georgia and specifically in Valdosta, and he has really helped me to understand what going on there, and this is the kind of stuff that I haven't written about yet because in writing get me that com I'm doing there of the new stuff. But when I do the book on this and and then I'll, be to really get into this, because to me this is what's really interesting, which is the the the the the fear is that people put up with Dee Dee Dee between the races and

and what you don't. Let people believe there. It's amazing, beyond with everything that we've talked about. I've said here tonight. I've talked to two of quotations in in Valdosta who want to maintain Zacks Kendrick died from positionally situation, which is about the same as say. Thing that the starship enterprise exists. You know I mean I'd like to believe it does, but it doesn't. I'm sorry not yet in a couple of centuries, your arms- you know my apologies to Bill Shatner, but you know the it's just you know sort of with such an issue question. You know at then, in the long way, around Mister Ward can absolutely bring murder charges and again boys being being very much more circumstance than I am

and and but the fact is, it identified the suspects- okay well he's, analysts and Mr Miller issues with those information to help go and the F B using this stuff is leaves, and turn the alabasta and- and if I was those bad guys- and I was listening right now- I would say that one she make a deal real, quick and because otherwise they throw the book at you yep. So maybe it is a good thing that in some ways that he could say that that there are federal prosecutors. Looking at this case, because it was really obviously a concerted effort for this case,

to go away, that that looks pretty obvious. Absolutely hate to have those same authorities may be charged the wrong person or admit that there there may have been foul play, but then again she was shoddy investigation, so maybe in the end it will he good at federal prosecutors. Look at this because it looks like a big story. Looks like a that's what I realized when I first looked at this that this instinctively there's so much going on with this not only cover up, but there's it's a very very incredible story, I said you gonna make it as it is now. I guess it's been going on for a number of years. In that town and in that county, there's a a lot of cases where you know people are just they're scared to death, and they don't know where to turn they don't know who to talk to. It took a

long time to get any kind of space build up in these people's. You know so that they would talk to you and And you know so many of the kids or juvenile, so you have to have the parents present when you talk to and the parents are even trying to get the you know the children, the shoe to partake and and give you you quality information and it's hard to do when you, when you first start out because of you know the flats and and people they're just they're. And talk they have. They have nothing to say and we've really gain enough trust in these people that they have come forth and Now we just have to in the hands of of the Department of Justice- and I honestly do believe that you know

right person is there to lead this attack and that being mister more now, the family has been instrumental in having this case. Stay open and stay alive stay in the public eye. What is the families? Are they feeling optimistic at this point based on. Red hat, I don't know if you want an answer that or not I yeah yeah. I mean I think that the family is, is they've been used to being lied to at least that's related. They feel I haven't spoken to them lately, but I don't think optimism, though, is is, would be the correct

no, I don't think that they are optimistic. I think more, like the realistic about what can and can't be done it it. It is. There is now a concern and public relations campaign. Since Mister Crump came on board the film. This is also, at a public relations person, that's been harder to work out of Atlanta, and so very periodically, releasing information. I can also tell you that she, CNN, it is Has been on this from the beginning, I'm actually an bows that we're working with NBC and they've been on this actually since way before CNN, but we

we're building it. You know what I mean: we're not going out there and saying you know Xy. Really in you know just for the sake of saying something would would lead us and we're continuing to investigate so, while Mister Morris in his investigation. We're not stopping. We are not stopping. We are involved actively investigating this case, an in actively investigating the suspects. But I mean even though yeah even no. This is gone. This far I mean on a daily basis, I am still doing investigation work on a space and will continue to do that until every has solved in the suspects, never Josh Justice for what they've done and it will happen it is going.

Happened. This is not going away, not be able to kick this under the rug as they as the authorities have tried to do the state authorities. This is not it's not going It happened not now not in the glare of international publicity it. Going go forward and they will eventually there. Will be a murder indictment. And I I think it's going to be sooner rather than later, what I'm most interested in in reading your book Fred and again, I congratulate you guys before hand for this, because I'm just fascinated by this I'm sure many many many people will as well is. There is a murder investigation, I'm very curious to see the circumstances of why this young man was killed, but I'm also even more intrigued

by why it's the cover up to go all the way to the juror Georgia Bureau of Investigation that could include all these people, so there certainly to really very fascinating stories. But I think the most interesting to me is a cover up with, It really is, and you know a hive told a lot of people that this is. This is case where it it's unbelievable. How much the white community is behind this and people would not under bandit unless they actually, you know, talk to the white community, but there's so many people pull there, thousands and thousands I mean it just goes on and on of how much Port there is from white community wanting justice and just thinks that you know this. This crime we done to this? Seventeen year old is is uh. All four and there's a lot

support out there and you know if anyone, that's listen, into this radio. Talk show today That, if anyone has any information that they can pass on, you know we would great really appreciate it, because you know it. Comes down to would you want? I mean we all have children and we love them very much. Would you want your child? to school on a daily basis. A murderer or murderers. That is response for committing such a heinous. Crime. I know I wouldn't and I would put my foot down and I just hope that someone, you know will- come forward and we are getting a lot of great value. Information from people that we're in contact with on a daily basis and we just hope, continues and

you know, I want to thank you for this air time, because it certainly does help. I know when we had our first one, Our talk show back in June, we got phone calls from all over and and it's just great so that there's a lot of you know, there's a lot of attention to it and People are interested and and they will how to do the right thing and you know thank you very much. Well, I again, I want to thank you guys at. I appreciate even being involved in this case and any

hey at all, because I was just outraged at the case just looking at it very, very simply and and again trying to be objective and and think well, maybe maybe I'm just being emotional but instinctively. I knew that there was something definitely with this, and so I'm glad that this case has caught the attention of the public and more. Poorly caught the attention of federal prosecutors and the second autopsy, and some of the things that have gone on have been encouraging to me, and so I really appreciate what You guys have done as well and I'm really looking forward to further developments in this story. Now I just wanted to mention two. We talk about people contacting yourself and myself, and there was somebody just on the phone and normally I do not have that as part of the feature of the program. But if some

They were to want to contact either Fred Rosen Bowl Webster myself. You could contact me through Blogtalkradio and then I would pass on that message. So there was somebody just waiting in the queue, and so I wanted to mention that you just never know who is calling in what kind information they may have so so. Gentlemen rollover almost wrapping up here. We've got a couple more minutes and sure, so you were saying that you're still pursuing every kind of all all the leads in the investigation. We're at this point to do so, you're still furthering that what is the next? I guess what is the next? thing that you are going to be doing. I guess in the very very near future regarding this case bo uh

Well, I plan on I plan on being in Valdosta. You know soon and there's is there's several people that I have that I want to make contact with and I feel that it's going to be a very important part of the case and I plan on doing that in the very near future, and still Having contact with Mister Moore may be once you're a couple times a week, giving more information because, like I said we, we have interest that parties out there that were in touch with every day and as we gather more information were, pricing, everything and all the information again will be turned over to the federal government and they can

They can take all this material and you do. They need to do but hi. I really feel optimistic about it and I think it's starting to move at a at a quick pace. And again yeah. I just want to thank you for for the year time, cuz it does help and I approve h your concerns and hope to have a lot of good information here in the very near future. Wow. You're very welcome table Ann This for me I'll, be continuing to report on the case for ebony dot com and and then at sign. Okay, if we are a, I plan to begin writing a book on the case where I can really start getting into the some of the some of the issues that we discussed tonight that don't see the in as well to a daily journalism and

yeah, I you, I too would like to thank you very much and because you've been instrumental in helping to push this along and get justice, for. This young man and for his family, like as a very welcome- and I hope, the very best from this program tonight and just from the on going. Investigation that you, gentlemen, have have done, and I wish the best for everybody. It's just. It seems like a growing movement of awareness that I'm so hang out on on the web, and I think that what everybody's concerted effort, the family, the the attorneys, the investigators, the Red rose an excellent true crime, writing Ebony magazine and all the articles of, appearing on on the on the web, just

in the last little, while, especially with the information with the surveillance, video being posted people love video. So I mean I. I really think that this case is going to gain national attention as it so deserve it deserve early. Does an I think that will be looking forward, do not not a happy ending, but at least justice being done and- and I think people can pat themselves on the back when that happens by caring. And I sharing the information and and demanding justice for this young man Kendrick Johnson. So I want to thank you. Gentle both this evening, and I wish you the very best and hope to hear from you very very soon with some real good news concerning the Kendrick Johnson murder case

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