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You are now listening to true murder, the most shocking killers in true crime, history and the authors that have written about them: Gacy Bundy, Dahmer, the night stalker Btk every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers in true crime, history, true murder, with your host journalist and author Dan Zupansky good evening, ambitious attractive in full of potential five young college students, prepared for the new semester, the dream, the beginning,

careers and starting families. They had a lifetime of experiences in front of them, but death came without warning in the dark of the night. Brutally ending five promising lives, leaving behind three gruesome crime scenes the Gainesville terrorize the University of Florida. Testing, an ominous shadow across the frightened college town, what evil lurks inside him? What demons drove him to kill? What made him. A monster of all time The featuring this evening is a monster of all time. The true story of Danny Rolling, the Gainesville Ripper, with my special guest journalist and author, and attorney Jt Hunter, welcome back to the program, and thank you very much for agreeing to this interview. Jt Hunter thanks man glad to be here Thank you very much one. The worst killers in true crime history. Thank you very. Such a monster of all time

You bring us right, two. Seen and I get to describe this is this is in Parchman, Mississippi in Mississippi in Mississippi. You take us to the reader right to nineteen eighty seven, but tell us a little bit about this Parchman Mississippi prison you talk about when he was transferred there and then he angered a guard there, so he was put in a very bad prison, but a a really bad place in a very bad prison. Tell us about this parchment, Mississippi State Penitentiary well March men, and it has a the Tory at reputation for being really hard on the prisoners. There there's a there's a really long, interesting history in Parchman

We want to take the time to look into it, but uh. It definitely was not a place that that folks wanted to be sent to do serve their sentences on in Danny rolling when he went there. He had a really rough time there. He was news, but not really, for what I gather really older part of the prison there. That was in really bad condition, and so he you know he had Endura quite to bit while he was there in it apparently really affected him. You know not just physically and emotionally that psychologically as well. You talk about that. He thought well at least it said to administration that he was because he was a cop son. Former cops did he want to be transferred to administrative segregation, so we're talking about placed in a place. That's not so desirable. For an inmate would be segregation in any prison correct.

Yeah I mean being being isolated and not having much contact with anyone else. It's like a prison within a prison from understanding. Now something right out of the sounds like a fictional movie. You talk about I've seen that she could be or could not be depends on if if someone were to believe what this person was saying- and you talk about this Gemini, you describe this prison in these horrid conditions, and his sanity tested by being in this prison. What is Gemini.

Well, Jim at night is something that Danny rolling identified as the I believe that the cause of the murders he ultimately ended up committing and the way rolling explained it was given. I was this sort of demonic force that I don't get that spoke while he was serving. It is hard time there in Parchman other these really miserable conditions and that offered him a way out of the way. It is with a survived the experience, and this is something that he Apparently believed occurred and ultimately ended up acting on you say that Gemini is gave him.

The ability to embrace the assurance of vengeance and pledging revenge for the countless injuries inflicted upon him and a new sense purpose had washed over him. With this, you didn't take the reader to August twenty six, one thousand nine hundred and ninety Gainesville FL an a couple students Christina Powell. First, we talk about Christina a policy, seventeen years old and she has moved from Jacksonville to go to the University of Florida in Gainesville. The classes were start. She leaves before the weekend so tell us. He has a relationship with close relationship with their parents. Tell us what happens on that weekend and August, one thousand nine hundred and ninety in Gainesville. Well, this is the weekend before classes are scheduled to start there at the unit

Florida and Christina was a freshman. She was an incoming freshman there at the college and she had moved into a new apartment there and- so along with her roommate another freshman college. There. And they were, you know doing what any college kids do when they're getting ready to start their semester. They were you know there. Trying to get their stuff moved in, there were you know looking around trying to find some sort of part time jobs to work during school and getting supplies for upcoming semester. All these sorts of things And she was there for the weekend and normal I guess she called home quite often talk to her parents and her parents didn't hear from her for several days And they really worried about it and,

it openly ended up driving over to Gainesville to see what was going on to see why they hadn't heard from her daughter. Thank you. You talk about right at the apartment that they had to break in. There was locked dead, bolts and soon as they they broke, and basically they could smell the as you as you right, they found Sanja Larson choose eighteen years old, her Christy is a roommate they find first. What is the I know this is graphic edition of Sonya. What how do they find her and what's the condition? Well, the the body was already starting to show nine. Decomposition and there were. You know readily apparent that she had been stabbed to death. There were stab wounds, visible,

for sure it was being down there were? There was baboons that could be seen on her arm on their leg and chest area You know you can imagine the bloody canoe, the body the body was very rich quite a bit of blood, found all around there. Now you talk about two that there was also a large piece of flesh was cut from her upper thigh and then another scene is coming. The perpetrator coming through the upstairs there was that you say a second scene ghastly scene was downstairs. And it was a new body of Christina Powell. What is one of the things again very unusual that that. That they encountered when they saw the scene. Christina Powell well like like Sonya Larson she'd, been stabbed to death multiple stab,

moons to her, but you know like similar to what you mentioned about the flesh being cut from leg with Christina her. Both of her nipples have been cut off Yeah in her body had been arranged a certain way. You know it indicating that the ever had murder at at you know state your body in a particular way Vander AIR out to the side of her head and placed her in a certain position. There Those other unusual things like you say there was he upset only posed uh her with her legs spread, but also there was some effort to be able to clean up the scene, the dish, soap, and also that that he bound these women with duct tape and that he had taken the duct tape away after he left.

This this murder scene does what, in this little college town on the very beginning of the college year. Well, it certainly certainly freaked already out, I guess would be way to kind of sum it up. So I made everyone very much very much, very, very much concerned. Nobody had any idea Yahoo. This killer was that had that had killed too young girls inside their own apartment. So there was a lot of fear in Gainesville Liberty, new we've done it could have been anybody. It could have been. You know some humor. And so how do police proceed in terms of trying to. To deal with, this looks like someone

killer on the loose a mad killer on the loose. Well, you know they they started organizing, but we could investigating the the murders, but before they could really even get going too far with their investigate these murders they they found body so right on right on the heels of cover the other body showed up. Now you talk about this third victim. This is Christa Hoyt and very interesting Lee. She was working also part time as a clerk in the records bureau of

watch what county sheriff's office and she failed to show up for a midnight work shift and so coworkers send a deputy to check on her and that's how she was discovered again, the locked apartment in when he looked inside. What did he find that Crystal Hoyt's crime scene Chris? This crime scene was really I mean there all all these beans were pretty gruesome, but but Christmas was the most gruesome what had been. And her body. She had been cheaping killed similarly to the other two victims, but her uh. She had also been decapitated and dumb. Her head been placed on a bookshelf next to the bed, you were, her body was positioned. Her body had been propped up on the edge of the bed as if it was sitting there

and her head was put on the case. Site position. Does Just looking at the at the body, so the head, the head, was facing the body as a crystal was looking at her, but decapitated body there. You also talk about police. Afterwards, again they were, they were looking for some sort of witness and the her landlord told police that on August 25th he had noticed the gate, LATCH had been unlocked, and so He just mentioned that to her and she thought. Well. Maybe it was maybe a television repairman or something in the area, and he hadn't thought much of it, but in retrospect he told police at what he had noticed with the latch. Now this is the third victim in gains

so in two days you talk about the Gainesville Police Chief Waylon Clifton. He calls of the Florida department of law enforcement for help. He knows he's over his head by a long shot with this Disney yeah, the the it's too much for a coincidence to have the two girls bodies found one day and then the very next day tour. Find this other body you killed in a similar fashion. So so all the signs were pointing to the same killer. Having done this and so yeah, so Gainesville was in a place that. Had experience with a lot of murders and to have this mini app in all. I want yeah. Certainly he decided you needed to call in some outside help. You talk to that is this general area, but at least Florida for sure and close by that another

the serial killer, that terrorized college town a decade before who was that that would be upset by the very well or serial killer who killed? You know he. He killed the different states, but in in in Florida and in Tallahassee Florida. The Koreas for having attacking build number of state university students up there and it was ultimately caught, not long afterward, I believe around the Jacksonville area. But but yes, it said Bundy was was certainly a notorious killer and then you know rolling ends up having a sort of a set

way of going about doing things you know, instead of instead of killing college students, Tallahassee Florida state, killing college students in Gainesville University of Florida yeah. Let's get back to more Unfortunately August 28th, one thousand nine hundred and ninety two more bodies are found this time one was a male. Manuel Taboada a three year old and three- see, Paul's is twenty three years old too, and their roommates uh, and this is about a mile from Christa Hoyt's home so the general area there stabbed to death, but tell us what a little bit about the back round white race. He moved in with men while a little bit about the background about these two people. Beef we talk a little bit more about the crime scene, itself, another ghastly affair in

In many Thibodeau they were friends from back in high school, they went, go down in South Florida and they became friends there. Near Miami, and they were. They were a little bit older than the other victims. They were both twenty three bi, believe Whereas the other victims were refreshing around one thousand, eight hundred and nineteen years old, so there are a couple years older. They had known each other since high school and they were really friends and, as you indicated. Tracy. Then you know a little concerned about her safety, so she decided it would be a good idea to be roommates with with Manta because well for on many was, was a male obviously, but he's off to a very large male. He played high school and football. He was six foot two.

You're pounds. So he was. He was a big big guy and you know she, you know reasonably enough, figured that if she room with him that should be pretty safe. You also talk about that. It's fascinating that, since these murders are fraction there in on people's minds and they've created such panic among these calls, due to some of these college, students have changed their mind or prior to said, come on back home, it's not worth it, but it is the it was interesting to Father even employed, her daughter to hang around many stay by many be careful and they talked about the murders. They did talk about keeping her safe. They had joked about it. I had mentioned it. They had spoke about it, they had cautioned there. Then you talk about many getting home from bartending at about one hundred.

Forty five am tell us what he does when he gets home and what she's doing then tell us what happens shortly after at 3A yeah. That's one of the you know. One of the scary thing about the case is that in our streets he's on the phone talking to were her family talking to her friend a good friend and no they're all worried about the fact that these other bodies have been discovered there shooting her warning her to be careful and no is it turns out when she's on the phone having this conversation that killers outside watching her on the phone the whole time. So, as you said, many had a job party Meaning, I think depending is there games. Well, he came home early in the morning, one hundred and thirty ish and and came into the apartment and checked on. We need to check country after we got him and if told

hey, I'm home I'm tired, I'm going to bed and and then went to bed. Now you say that someone, obviously rolling was was watching and you get this information with the incredible acts. That you have to information afterwards. What does Dan Rolling to How does he again? Do you imagine a couple people aware that there's a threat and this guy this is offensive garden. Football is six foot two hundred pounds. How does Danny rolling do what he does well, if you gain the apartment he he enters in there and goes to many bedroom. First You know he waits a while before before he entered the apartment to do from time to he sound asleep and then one,

the energy goes into many department and stands over him and take that might have one of these large Marine fighting knives or called Kabar knives, and he takes one takes that out and while many sleeping on his back, he plunged straight down into his chest and from there, then he wakes up abruptly, obviously and gas and there's a there's, a. Is a struggle there, for it was described as a really bloody. Rough struggle that went on many fought for his life, but ultimately he was overcome, obviously caught cot by surprise when he was sound asleep and he was he was stabbed to death

very, very bloody crime scene, and then all that was happening. Tracy gone to bed as well heard the commotion. Peered her door down the hall and saw the killer come out of Manny's room. And you know she screamed and close the door lock the door gateway, but he pursued down the hall, kicked in the door and attacked now you say It's very interesting to that Tracy his friend LISA the next day couldn't reach are. And so she calls another friend called Tommy Carroll and that's their bodies were discovered. The gate work, gator, Woods apartment, neither body been mutilated, but another fascinating part of this was when he had gone there. There was a black bag

and he ran to obviously alert police. What was the in crowd. Strange thing that was seen by police After he mentioned this bag, what tell us about the the bag yeah? This is an interesting back to this this bag. That was mentioned that I believe it was uh. The gator would apartment maintenance, guy or no maintenance, Curity Baker there at the apartment, complex, was the one that you open the door and when, when he opened up the door, he saw the the bag was there laying there in the floor beside a body this black bag did you mentioned, and

the door was actually believe it was unlocked when he did that so when he opened it and saw the body in the bag there and the bag, they closed the door back after that 'cause. You know. Obviously they saw this body there, so they kind of shocked and it closed the door back and went to notify the police and when the police did show up and go back into the apartment, the bag was gone. Now, what did that label will? Just, I don't jump ahead, but what does that indicate to police that. Compared to the other crime scenes, what had happened with this bag? What does that indicate was different from those other crime scenes? It indicated that the killer was still inside the, When you going to visuals, went there to check on Tracy

The killer was still inside and was interrupted and whatever he was wanting to At the time we had the other difference there. There was this black bag that was apparently seen, but the other difference was the the body there weren't, you know display and then you sort of manner like you had, like the other bodies, have been a few other crimes games. So another indication that the killer had been interrupted. You've had to flee the scene before he had wanted to. You talk about too, that the headlines in the newspapers now our last kill the tool. Now five. And you're talking about the headlines and they also talk about in the articles hundreds leave the school change them. Like I say parents they get out of there. Now. This is a five dead in three days. You also chronicle in the book to the the residents in this panic bought out the city supply dead bull.

Stun guns, mace shotguns rifles baseball bats, and this definitely definitely absolutely changed. Everyone's attitude and behavior in this community didn't yeah. It was. It was the proverbial mass panic and everyone's said they cleaned out the the local supply stores have all these sort of defensive weapons and. Shotguns baseball bats. All these sorts of things, stun guns. And uh there was. There was a mass exodus of students. Hundreds thousands of students left the University of Florida at the best of their parents, that worried parents- and you know out of out of their own fear for their own safety as well. Yes,

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audible. You can go back and relisten anytime. Even if you cancel your membership, didn't like your audio book exchange it no questions asked start, a thirty day trial and your first audio book is free, go to audible, dot, com, slash true murder or text. True murder, two: five hundred thousand five hundred, that's audibled com, slash true murder or text. True murder, two. Five hundred thousand five hundred. You can do it with audible, audiobooks. Now JT we talked about the panic.

There was an suing in Gainesville. How do police approach this and, at the same time, where is Danny rolling well in response to these, multiple murders in Obviously you seem to be there the work of the same killer and there seems to be a serial killer on the loose there in Gainesville the the Gainesville police there, they they combine forces may have the uh the sheriff's office there Lucia County sheriff. Office. They have the city of Gainesville police a man they also have the University of Florida police there and also brought in. Florida Department of LAW enforcement, so it combined forces with all these agencies to form a task force to investigate these five murders. In these five teams will students,

You also say that even bring in profilers and again the famous John Doug, US another. One came named Jim Wright, they're very taken very seriously. These profiles emerged from this, becomes a suspect and when John Douglas looks at them and Jim right? They think that this is a real good suspect, based on some of the search stances in some of the background of this perpetrator. What happens with his Edward Humphrey nineteen year old part time student at DO diversity Florida. How does he become a prime suspect? Well, during the investor action, the police had been interviewing residents of different apartment complexes where the murders took place or as part of that they spoke to some some students. There are Florida, he told

police about a former roommate that they had in they describe this roommate, as acting very strangely and dumb having you know, voice things against females like his ex girlfriend and things like that listen, also apparently yet had a some sort of fixed ocean on uh one of the victims on a Tracy pause and it lived at the gate apartments for some time. So the police learn this. This. This person be shot up on the list of suspects, and you came there top suspect, and you mention his name at the Humphrey. He was The nineteen year old part time student there University of Florida. He was, he was a big guy over six feet tall and over two hundred pounds.

He had you know it in researching him. They they found out that you have had a number of encounters with various beliefs, over over the years and recently as well, and they also discovered that you had a history of manic, depression and and a lot of strange behavior in the past, so you certainly someone they were. They were focusing on. They really thought He going to be the guy that they had done right now. You take us in the book so at the same time, we're juxtapose back and forth from Danny rolling Danny Rolling's past, and you talk about the I guess, the progression and eva solution of this guy as a criminal and then as a killer on a rapist and the killer. Tell us about

the background. What happens to him? They? There is, of course, when we get later in all kinds in the mitigating portion. Of the sentence. Ng! There's all kinds of stories come out about things that could be in big, We have something attributed to this killing spree later on, but tell us a little bit about Danny rolling. In his background that you chronicle in the book yeah, the the way the narative is, is presented. As you said it. It goes back and forth the chapters alternate between between between the prisoner who we meet the very beginning of the book and parchment prison who, as it turns out Danny Rolling, and so We follow the this prisoner, how he ends up in Parchman prison and then what happens after he gets out of from prison and then

we follow that thread all the way up through into them. In Gainesville and then move forward from there, so the. Play rolling, had a had a rough past. We talked about his time, Parchman prison and you know, obviously he did things to The merit being there, as you said he did have this- this you know escalating. Background of crimes that occurred. And it it all traits back to his his family life. We had a very. Domineering, father figure of very very rough figure in a court, Danny Rolling. His father was abusive not just to Danny, but to his into his

other as well, and there are a lot of infinites is between father and son in the past and a lot you know degrading Millie Eighting and you physically violent incidents between father and and in the end you're rolling in those are all detailed in the book in this. You know this leads to a but really violent confrontation with his father when he gets older, Alamo Building in him. How are you a gun, fight with his father and he ends up shooting his father in their home and uhm? You know, and also in the time period, meeting up to that as well, Danny rolling as as the teenager, he starts this lifelong habit of keeping in windows Is introduced to apparently by a friend to his there when The teenager

peering in the window of a a neighbor house, where the daughter get cheerleader leader, you know the local high school, you know seeing her undressing and things, and so this is something that Daniel becomes essentially addicted to for the rest of his life and something he he does. You know there after this peeping in windows, eventually go graduates in two breaking into homes- and you know course there's some robbery. Some stepped involved in that, but it's also escalates into rate. You know violent encounters with women in these places. You would not have spy on these women and then raking her houses in rates down. This escalated as well, and you know it really as we see it with the ultimate only

both of it, is the murders in Gainesville and it turns out. There was another merge before the games will ones as well. Let's talk about the Grissom's. Youngest was Sean that said, Tom and she's. There's three Julie, I believe, tell us about the three Grissom's and The crime scene, the police, found there yes, so the Grissom's was the the Father news. Fifty five I've. Sean was the boy he's a in Julie. Who is twenty four? She was the daughter, so the three of them were found, murdered at Clown Grissom's home, where were Julie, was living with her father. There

Sean was there for the weekend, staying with them and the three of them found murdered in nineteen eighty nine. In Shreveport LA and it was a another, violent murder scene stabbings. All three of them have been stabbed to death. And Julie had been. You know there are signs that you know we have been raped, well is being murdered and you know like these, like several of the scenes in Gainesville, Julie's body had been left certain way on the killer stay. Your body a certain way and uh, it was uh not just another, another, really sad violent murder site.

And you know it turned out that rolling had been fired from a job. The very day of the murders the same day that the family is murdered by have been fired from a job at a restaurant that are in Shreveport, and you know I don't know how far you want to jump ahead but You know it turns out they're looking into it to the. Rolling, Danny Rolling head. You know he granted the same park said you we ran out, and you know what it could have bumped into her various locations. Fire this and he was in pain, and so you know it wasn't, wasn't just a pure random sort of killing you obviously had contact with Julian targeted her. Now, let's jump ahead to, we have the funerals, chronic

funerals for the five people- and you say early that morning: police it spotted a man in camouflage pants knee For the third crime scene, and yet he got away and they they sent police dogs, helicopters. They couldn't find him yet at the same time that they had that incident very again, movie, ask you, say the police announcing that they're very close to an arrest very close to and uh who well they have their sights on and Humphrey. You know they were convinced. This guy was there guy And you know they also, there was also another name that came up is uh. The one that they're looking at as well. You had a. At at his own, violent history and apparently had attack a woman with a knife or something so they

They definitely had these suspects there high up on the list. You know she's, which was was at Humphrey. Do. You talk about July, one thousand, nine hundred and ninety. He those two Tallahassee Danny rolling closed the Tallahassee again, the the place where TED Bundy, Perpetrated his crimes but he's using an alias called Michael Kennedy, Junior, he checks in to a travelodge with this stolen idea. Id pardon me and tell us about this. Recording he makes to his family. In Sarasota, and then tell us about the content of that recording what's in that and then, where does he go August? 23Rd yeah, so rolling arrived in Tallahassee and Did and you he purchases constantly, the weapon, the Green Barn, Ison uh

from there. He goes to Sarasota Sarasota Area and this is where, while he's there staying at a motel there's where he begins, this tape that you mentioned you know it's just one of these old paper quarters, audio tape, recorders and it's a message to his family and uh he's just you know, kind of blend know his his bots. You know kind of reflecting back you know the bad relationship they've had father and son and uh. Thoughts about his mother and things like this, and then it ends up continuing this tape. Recording after he gets to Gainesville. In the arrives in Gainesville in MID August surround the 18th. I believe it was

all by Greyhound and Gainesville Skull, and he checked into a hotel again but after about about a week or so he checks out of that selling ends up setting up a camp in a wooded area there in Gainesville set up a tent it in what area there and at he does, that is when he continues this tape recording to his family and there's a lot of prominence statements in the tape. Recording series: his family and especially the end of it. You mentioned that you have something else to do. Yes, And obviously, if something has to do and that's when the take stops- and you know turns out that from there's when he started pepper

events that led to the first murder. You say to that on the tape. There's a whole lot of singing going on, Touhy, writes his own songs and so he's singing. A few songs on the tape as well use right in the book again. This is eerie. We mentioned that. Jim and I rate in the opening of this and right in the opening of your book. We talk about the German. I the demons that the voice that he was in bodies him, I guess and But, interestingly enough, I'm a fan of this movie like a lot of call exorcist three, You say that in this, in this case, campground that he has the he staying at just previous to this incredible murder spree he. Goes to the theater to see extra three This is three as you write, the movie features a decapitation in a killer possess by demons. What's that demons? Name

in that movie, and what is rollings astrological sign tonight is the the demon name and that's also rolling sign, so you know coincidence, or it would be influenced by the tone the make up this yemenite story. You know that the question that lingers out there, what he you know he yeah yeah. He insists that it was just pure coincidence that you that you are there and saw this problem? Had Gemini was the name there, but this demon but uh yeah, getting back in the opening of the book and This encounter with this gemini demonic, forced there. There certainly seems to be some sort of connection there.

Talk about two that he he has a gun. We mentioned that he talks about later that night you're right about that later. That night he was caught by security guard peeping in another window, but he gets away August. The he robs a bank with a gun and And he tells again you capture this. He says there better, not be any dye packs and, of course, there's dye packs in the explode but more interesting thing is that police officer sees two men walk into the woods one white man, one black men- I guess thinks it's kind of odd any calls for backup, and what did they find at this campsite. Even though again. Danny Rolling- is able to escape what did they find at this campsite yeah? So this is August 27th and it's the same date that crystalloids body is discovered is when

Yeah rolling rob this bank there in Gainesville is the fur she and banking he use a gun as part of the robbery, as you said, and the exploding ink in the in the bag of money. As he's running away, you know the explodes and then the next. The next day there is when the police who are, you know, investigating the aware of the robbery bank robbery in the area and when they come upon these two men White male with black male that you know they go on, you know, stop basically and the black male stops, but the white male takes off running. He runs into so the words cemented area near by the police chase him into there and they end up coming across, but the campsite there Bowling's campsite and there are the campsite they find quite a few things. They find the no so

the bag of money. You, the inks, paying money, find the ski mask, used in the robbery and the find a gun as well on, other things, and this is also where they find the the tape recording actually also, they find the tape recorder and with the tape there, but they don't. You know ever listen to it, apparently, and so quite quite some time later,. Nothing is he's these he's guy and he has a lot of luck. A leader, your trip is that to again to the demon, but where does he go next because again, police are still not on his trail. Are they fully. No, they they're still there. So after at home review, you know I had since been arrested in Brevard County in floor

for assaulted his grandmother so he's in, custody and I'm facing charges for that. But they still, you know they still like him for the murders of the five students so bowling, not even on their radar. At this point. You don't have any idea that that rolling I rolling could potentially be the one that committed the murders so they're still after on three of the still think he's there got right. Meanwhile, rolling is you know from Gainesville. He robbed his bank and he goes from Gainesville. I goes to Tampa commits some home Asians there stealing things so rob the grocery store there and some other thing Your car, while he's there and the ends up in Ocala Florida and rob the Winn Dixie Grocery store there in Ocala, and just so happens that when

does that but there's police nearby there then they're able to respond pretty quickly and so a chase ensues. A car chase ensues until he crashes his car, again kind of kind of like a movie scene. Like you mentioned or you know this car chase and crash the car, and then we've put, but it's been been arrested, but again, so they take him into custody. They arrest them for the robbery again, having no idea that connected to these murders, that are no so so dominating the the efforts of the police and games. And indeed this another incredible part of this story is that Humphries now is just destroy. Wait in the media. When does the Gators information and the media runs with the allegations and uh he's destroyed. Meanwhile, you say that they,

text Ann Rule and current, Experience with TED Bundy and being this roman premier, true crime, writer and investigator, former former police officer, she was asked, Humphreys was there man? What did she say. I'm trying to remember exactly what she said. I don't recall exactly. I have to help me out there a little bit, but she didn't think he didn't think he fitted. She said that he wasn't sophisticated enough. She said the definitely the case resembled. Bundy was addicted, Murder, but she said it was too young and she I think so not sophisticated enough because yeah. I guess I guess you being comment too as well, because it

it's it's an observation conclusion that some other folks that looked at the case back to that it just didn't seem like home, for you, you know, had the the ability to pull these kind of crimes off and be able to get, away with it like this killer. Had you know, even though that, even though the crime scenes were very bloody, you know messy that sort of way they were also very cleaned in another sort of way. In that there was but any real evidence left behind for you investigators to to make a case. So you know these people, like you mentioned rule and then some of these other outside folks that looked at it. You know didn't think that that Humphrey would be able to do this sort of thing 'cause. He was so pistol organize

as an individual, you know, if you did this, you know it's a history of mental illness, among other things, so yeah. I was an interesting observation you put into it. You read in Sept, one thousand nine hundred and ninety rolling pleads guilty to arm robbery at the Winn, Dixie and uh he. He please for leniency, but he gets a life sentence with the habitual felony offender as offender's. So while in custody make statements about the Gainesville Killer and things like they'll, never catch him. Then you also write on January Wildgen, A February ninety one tip from Shreveport residents, Cindy Dobbin, who had met him. She said fifteen years earlier at the United Pentecostal Church. What did she tell them? And and

what did she tell them and and regarding the gruesome murders and her experience this man fifteen years earlier? Well, she thought she called in to the you get that they take a hard look. Danny Rolling, as as a suspect in the murders based on her past experiences with him and You know at the time. I don't believe that they gave it priority that you know. Ultimately, it merited. Unfortunately,. So how is it they come to? Take a look at Danny rolling because you right masterly that. Basically, the the police, no matter what what even when they find can Shin with the gruesome murders, with the other

for five murders that they'd still think Humphreys involved. Somehow those tell us how they progresses to the point where finally, Danny Rolling is identified. Well, there's old, there's communications between the Sri or police in the Gainesville investing there's there. Hey and. Some of the detectives from Gainesville will go up to Shreveport to to you, don't talk to the the Gators, you know read the case file, one. I see the similarities in the prize. There's certainly some the real similarities there that raise some red flags, but potentially committed by the same guy in, and you know, meantime Danny, rollings and in jail

from the robbery sentence and so the the games go. Please start considering him as a as a possible suspect as well in variable to get dna samples from him. He gets a tooth taken out while he's there in jail. And they're able to get ahold of the you know the bloody gauze and stuff. That's leftover from that procedure and use the test of DNA and ultimately that dna comes back as a match for. I believe it was the Sonya Larson. I think it was. Maybe it was the crystal wait, a minute not matching, but one of the bodies. It ends up matching crying scene there, so they certainly strong evidence pointing at rolling by that point.

Now is very interesting too, because this story, I mean we're not going to have enough time to go into this, because it's such an involved wild story once they have him in custody, uh there emerges and inmates again Amazing about american justice is how many people want to come. For word once they're in prison and turn in form. It there's a robber, Bobby Lewis, a death row. Now his seized doing a life sentence. And Sandra London just tell us about Sondra, London and Bobby Lewis, and what these two people worth thinking of doing and planning to do well. Your body, though, is he said he was the use and make their he. He heard about Danny rolling in you know the end up working the same.

Floor area in the prison or Daniel is being held, and so he he went out of his way. Eight introduced himself to meet Danny Rolling, struck up a friendship with them Danny currently impress the my body blues had at one time escaped from death. Row walked out of the prison in broad daylight by person, making a one of the guards there essentially, and so that really impressed Danny, and so they struck up a friendship, and today he started feeling details about some of the crimes that have been committed to your body. Lewis, again so Bobby Lewis reached out to Sondra London he knew from before, because she is a true crime. Writer and dumb you know, I've been working on some some books with some of the Spare including Bobby Lewis, and so he reached out to her start telling her about his contact with,

Danny rolling in that eventually led to Bobby Lewis. Talking to investigators about times, and you know kind of one of the odd things about it is Danny. Only seems to know the whole time Bobby Lewis is sharing this information, but keeps giving them the information anyway and then ultimately uses Bobby. Yet as out the confessed to the killings, the games are killing. The controversy is, though, that Sondra London becomes involved. Much more than would say, a tip journalist would again involved in writing a story. Tell us what the controversy is regarding her. Yes, Sandra becomes romantically involved with Danny and she starts. She agrees

to work with him on writing and story, and so you know they're going to they're going to write the story about Danny rolling. Murders and everything- and you know, make money off of this and You know meanwhile, Danny also he's also kind of it, this artist and he makes these sketchy awesome, drawings and things in addition to being a songwriter, and so he's sending these things as well and she's. You know selling these artwork like to collect sort of things and making money off of that and she enters, and please book deals and interview deals with these different media outlets and things and I was making money out for this as well to be like the exclusive source of Danny Rolling story. So, as you said, it starts, it's a big controversy in the on the fact that she's trying to profit off these crimes he's trying to profit basically off these crimes, and

so it it's a whole. Another thread of the story really. We he goes to trial. Obviously this is a death penalty case and that's why we have this. We can say right now: it takes sixteen years to get to uh for Bush to sign an order for the death warrant sixteen years later, and we could talk about the trial as well, just he goes to trial, you know what I thought was incredible and writing a book is that when we got to that sentencing sentence ng the forces. Want this person put to death and then, of course, the forces that don't but in the death penalty at all, I found it again even more over the top than normal, considering the crime scene photos that the jurors would have to see and yet everybody in that

The new jurors got to see the blown up photos of the crime scenes blocked out for the more gruesome parts would just I couldn't imagine the family and everyone having a juror those kinds of photos just to be able to try to put this person the death which took forever. Yeah it was, it was a lengthy process as you definitely this is going to be. You know. The the interesting thing in the case here is that you know the the day of jury selection. You know the the prosecution and defense were all geared up building their case up over a month. Months and months, yeah getting ready for what they anticipated would be a long trial to determine guilt, but the first day of trial, their jury selection that first day of jury, selection, Danny informed the judge. He won

and uh guilty- and you know It'S- it's stunned everybody, except for with a judge in the state attorney who, for you, know several days before but everyone else in the corps was done because they are expected. This long involves grueling trial, but again you're not reading guilty to it and kind of dramatic sort of fashion. You know his statement to the book about why he does bad and everything as well, but so from there they guilt has been established to the rest of the trial is just devoted to you know whether the destiny, it should be imposed, and ultimately it is, after you know, testimony from a lot of psychological experts about. Why did he did what he did in his capacity to understand it and all these sorts of things, and that's all detailed as well in the book, but he does end up ultimately receiving the death penalty

And, as you said years and years years years later, the sentence finally carried out warrant is signed by the you know get Bush I get at the time and the sentencing date or the execution date with schedule. There was talk of people being suspicious of the police. The guilty plea at the last minute. What was some people's idea? The motivation for him doing that. Well, he claimed that it was to spare the families of the victims from having to. Indure hearing, the customer e, seeing the photos of their lost ones and all these kind of things, but other people think that he was doing it

uh out of completely out of self interest. But you wanted to try to avoid the death penalty and that's the whole reason why I went ahead and pled guilty as they try to avoid getting in touch center. In this, it was interesting too, when you have these death penalty cases that there really does come out at least uh For part fiction or completely true, there is the background from the mothers and the Father's and the brothers that come and try to say things to to war, what to avoid based, basically the death penalty, even though it seems hopeless what were the kinds of things that they said. I thought it very, very fascinating that it came out that an incident that James his father had witnessed when

he was a child. Tell us about that incident. That came out basically at this the penalty phase of this trial. But there was a lot of family history in the rolling family there of mental illness and. Danny's Father James. He had his own mental illness issues and when he was younger, he had witnessed his Grandmother. Deleted his grandmother that killed his grand father. I have, if I recall correctly, they were at the kitchen table Yeah, so this is something that a James had witnessed when he was younger, and so this is obviously.

Impacted games in and something that that got passed along you know in you know, you kind the the father visiting the sins of his father, so to speak on on Danny Rolling, eventually as well so the family had that this history, mental illness, other members of the family, had these sort of Mental issues as well so that all he running the trial and one of the really interesting things also, I thought was Danny Danny, you're explanation as to ultimately why he had stopped killing when he did. You know he killed the five in Gainesville and then stop right to pick up there's nobody any idea who he was at the time. But he stopped the explanation he gave her this later was that he had you know in the kinda demonic sort of contract. He enter to list this jump

that he has agreed that he was going to. You, know vengeance and make equivalent to what he an indoor. And so since he was imprisoned for eight years of his life, he was going to murder eight victims and so each of the five in Gainesville and then you know, as it turns out, he killed the three Grissom failing Others as well showed her. These eight victims in total yeah. Not to say that this guy's, a good guy in any conceivable way, but shortly before his execution bowling. Shreveport Reverend MIKE Hudspith. He ship them

send him a letter or slip them a letter. Pardon me confessing to the three Grissom murders of nineteen. Eighty nine. I was very interesting. I thought yeah it's another another one of these kind of cinematic kind of events in the in the Tory that you know the gruesome murders when they when they happened. You know that the Respect in at a at a suspect in mind, they had you use an ex ex boyfriend at the top suspect in candlelight. There's a similar parallel there with at home at Humphrey was kind of dragged through the media, the public it is, it is a damage and things the same thing with Julie's ex ex boyfriend. He was you through the same thing, you know, for those murders and he actually came to the execution was with outside, with the crowd that was Gath. There are you know the pro in the against and come you know,

which is all the time hoping that rolling would finally confessed to the killings, the measures that you know he learns afterward that that role had sent a letter and to this I've there they're giving him a letter when met with them and After the execution, the letter was revealed and in the letter rolling confessed to the ticket Re Grissom's. Well as well. Lot of really interesting, read the story, absolutely there's a lot of a lot of a block and a going. All the same time, yes, absolutely It's also interesting that you take us, make the reader right into the x fusion itself, and fascinating when they ask him if he wants to say anything and he

breaks into a song just before the chemicals throw flow through his veins. Very, very fascinating, a remarkable book JT. Thank you very much for coming on and talking about a monster all time. The two story of Danny rolling. The Gainesville ripper has been fascinating. Thank you JT for those that might want to just check out your the work. You have a facebook, page or website. Let us know yeah, there's a publishers, Rj Parker, publishing and there's a there's, a website, rjparkerpublishing Parker, publishing, dot com, and you know all the books, all my books or available on Amazon DOT, com, easiest ways, just the plug Jt Hunter and the books should pop up, including the latest wanna monster of all time. Yes, thank you

very much Dt hope to talk to you again real soon. It's been a pleasure goodnight thanks Dan, always thank you.

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