The the welcome everyone. This is the Christmas spectacular episode of true crime all the time. This episode should drop right before christmas. So play some of you out. There are listening to it right now on some new fancy phone or tablet. Maybe a computer, that you just opened, but either way we, and I want to wish everyone a very merry christmas in that right, giving it is a rice havin, a great one.

Now most of you are familiar with Jeffrey dumb. We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted individually mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle ward takes us through the story, starting with Dahmer, his childhood and the first murder all the way through his death, the podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives. Journalists and others close to the case too blog exactly what happened and how His killer came to be so. This sounds like a very deep dark and for me, anytime, you get never before heard audio from people very close to the case. Ahmet, listen to mind of a monster on pod cas spotify or wherever you get your pockets. So we ve a few shout out for this episode, Jordan and texas Send us an email claiming that she is our biggest fan.

Jordan is also the one that made the very funny meme of all in common mentioning the hair was funny. I was wanting, mentioning don't accept, candy or frankfurter sprinklers. So no she's. She was listening closely. You can see that on our facebook page or if you follow us, said tc all the time on twitter, thanks Jordan. I really love the meme yet was Merry christmas to you definitely we've get to more shouts roberta annie, and these are actually second time shouts and that's because they are very first donated on our patriarch page. If you had not been out to the later on page. Please visit it. You can get their through website at true crime, all the time, dot com look for the page, on button and if you click on that it'll, take you straight to the patron page.

we're adding new content, all the time, some content on there that is available to patron. We supporters, but you can see port to show for as little as two dollars a month, the only sound like Sally struthers, but that is far less than a cup of coffee a month. rights are less than one star bucks a month. You can help support to show If you're using itunes, please go out and take the time to rate the podcast you can write. review as well? If you want you, have you love this Oh, it's a great way to help support us and it gets some out there, and seen by our rating. So we appreciate So, as I mentioned, this is our christmas spectacular and what gideon I thought we would do: who is. Instead, focusing on one crime or or syria

killer murder. We would go through and give our favorite smith crimes will go back and forth. Taking turns talkin about him that Gibbs is right. I have that right. You made a start. Well, you look like you really want to get go and I can tell jumpin jumping to chance. So I'll start, I'm gonna talk about the convene a massacre, so this is two thousand and eight so you're you're going to be low on the light side. Yeah yeah, I don't want to jump out to the gate with really gruesome one yeah. So, let's start with a mask: yeah: okay, sorry, I may have some, we have some funny ones in here. This is not one of them at all, or they can't wait for me to get in because I got a funny So we'll go back and forth marijuana make it too dark all.

at the time we got to we've got to bring a little lightness to it, but this one is dark. Unfortunately, so it's christmas eve night, and around eleven thirty p m, the man name brew, pardo, who had, Rented, a santa suit at a local costume shop He puts on the santa suit any heads over to a party that being held at his former inlaws place. So at this point You know, we know that bruce's no longer married again, someone is he's not invited to this party bright right, but he's gonna head over anyway problem is that bruce is bringing presence. And normally that's, not a problem, but the presence there bruce is bringing include a home

in flame thrower sweet. I don't I dunno how you make a flame thrower, how you get one of those I mean you can get. Can you buy I don't know this says he. It was homemade. He actually made this point to put this together, and on top of that, yet four, nine millimeter handguns, nothing they're, gonna Hadrian gunnar, have nothing wrong with having hand and what he's gonna do with em, what he's going to do with them? That is definitely something wrong, so pardo there's the home and right away, he start shooting at random. I mean he's always proud. gotta go I'm picture like a turn. Tino type film gun in each hand drop in the clips and grabbed the next right. He he runs and start shooting at random, fortunately right off the bat he shoots an eight year old girl and this girl

What is it? What is said about this part is. I think this was his niece on his ex wife's side, while she's, actually excite. to see him when he comes in the door rise, so she's running to greet him and he shoots her sat in a horrible. He ends up. Shooting Many many members of his his ex wife's family and then he uses the makeshift flame. Through that we talked about to basically set the whole play. On fire. In the end, nine people were killed. Either gunshot wounds or flames, and this cloots his ex wife and former in laws. Besides the nine that were killed, three others were wounded, so they

ro girl was shot in the face, but she lived. So that's the bright side of the story. Right she had severe injuries, but they were not life threatening a sixteen year. girl was shot in the back and twenty a woman, suffered a broken ankle. While she jumping out of the window trying to get away from from the sky one Survivors called the authorities during the attack after escaping Please calm in the fire and rescue com, and it was said that the fire that region all did from this flame theurer sword as high as fifty feet in the air while by I might, if he had gasolene were or what, but it went up quick handle. It took eighty firefighters, an hour and a half to put this fire out. So is

many of pretty substantial, because the fire was so intense, the only way tat they could identify. The victims was by dental and and medical records. So it doesn't stop there, though right so he's committed the deed right, but he gets away the police don't get there to getting so part of What's on? He gets out the santa outfit and he puts on some street clothes and he drives a rental car to his brothers house and that's. It is about thirty miles away its at his his house where he would ultimately die from a self inflicted gunshot wound so nope his brother wasn't there at at the time. So he leaves the scene changes. Clothes goes back to his brother's house and shoots him to laser and that's where he decides

shoot himself here. Ok, I'm not sure why air may obviously he's not right in the head at this point, or he wouldn't have done any of the as it is doing it right. He had purchased an airplane ticket, air canada. It was thought that his initial plan was to flee to canada. It was all We discovered that his flight itinerary was actually from los angeles. two moline or illinois notice. How I said Illinois will make sure you say it right and not. Illinois now come on, so he had parvo had called a high school friend a couple of days before to say: hey, I'm going to come out and visit year. So that's what ultimately, they said that why he was going to to moline at so, crazy story. Yeah yeah, that's the only other thing that I had on that was you know he

did suffer some third degree burns which I guess to be expected, he's using a flame. Third, it try to melt down this house basically, but when please find him, After he shot himself, they find seventeen thousand dollars in cash on him inside a girdle. I don't why wise were in a girdle. But yes, I guess that's where he's hiding highness seventeen thousand dollars, they find the rental car that he had, let you know parked his brothers house and they find the santa suit. Obviously they find all bunch a handgun. And I think they recovered two hundred rounds of ammunition and then, when they go to his home they find something else which is described some of the readings as a virtual bomb factory really yet,

this guy had been planning this for a long time. You know. Obviously he made the flame thrower. He was making sure whatever method he used was going to take care of them. Sir, do some do some? Do some serious damage? Yeah? No doubt So that was the kaweah masker. It occurred in two thousand eight. Now that's a bad sanna that is a bad santa at santa we'll look so on a lighter side will go from dark delight, yeah, so I just got the short little one here that it as fine it funny. You know it's in our home nearer home town dayton, ohio. This is christmas of twenty eleven and thursdays. Sir gentlemen name terry trent, so he eat he gets wasted on math salts, so bad, I just want to make sure right bath salt,

is the one that causes people to other people's faces off again: and you know sometimes either zombie a factor or great regret the big story? A while, you know back in the future. Go here. Basalt call caused some mighty two miles of asia So that's it! That's a whole mother hockey, psych sergeant yeah. Well, you know you're into that zombie stuff. Aren't you yeah you like shooting them? I think I like I like walking dead the walking dead, so anyway, so this terry trent, you know he is wasted on these bass salts and he is he walks in the back door of his neighbors house, and he just starts to decorate the place for christmas. I mean Jesus he's high on bass, just desires, he's gonna you know, get it all christmassy. Well. What else would you do if you're high on bass, I yeah well at least he's not eating anybody's face right now, so that's good, but so

he likes candles and decorated: the house, the coffee table the kitchen table he even takes the time and hangs a wreath out on the garage door and then, of course, he's blaring the tv with some kind of christmas show on and he sit plane with the the toys underneath the christmas tree that belongs the kids that live there right. So Well, the eleven year old boy that he wakes up here in the noises and he he goes to his moms roman wakes. Her up in forsake look downstairs and they see is strange. Guy does having a good old time house, decorated, tv blaring. So, of course, she calls the dayton police and you can figure out what happens from there, but some guy just pitcher this guy in a pitcher coming home. and get some guy high. On whatever

sit nunnery through your tree playing with your kids toys. I think it's on balance. That would not work out well for me, when an exact you know what's funny when you said you were going to do this, one that when this one was on your last, I looked it up and one of the one of the quote: said what the hell are you going to do in dayton, ohio yeah, I kind of funny s excitement around here since we live here so that the story that one is don't do battles Basalt, even around anymore, I used to hear about em it is ago, but yeah. I don't think you can buy them at the convenient stores like he used to. I sure, as hell hope not I don't want to buy my face and I don't want anybody in my. living room, I made your kids toys

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we can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Discover your potential with better help, visit, better help, dot com, slash te cat, tch TT today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help, h e l, p, dot com, slash ticket, alright, so want to what was described as santa line slaying. So this happened act. I don't even have the year to be honest with you it was back, I want to say, was in the eighties and it happened in cleveland. And twenty one year old, Tyrone howard and his pregnant wife had taken their three sons And this is where I, this the one. The reasons why I like this is because

one of the sons is actually terence howard, the actor. So a lot of people are probably recognise. Terence howard, he just been in a ton of movies. so this is actually a tear. Towered is actually one of the three sons that is. Going to see santa claus at hague, bees department store in cleveland. So they're waiting on line to see santa claus Also waiting in line is thirty, six year old, jack Fitzgerald, who had three of his own children and his wife is pregnant as well, but is he's got justice? Three children with them is in line. His pregnant wife is shopping with their with their own daughter at one point there They get into an argument so that tyrone, howard and jack Fitzgerald are arguing rosalie about One of the other cutting in line

now will say: there's a lot of information on there's quite a bit information on line this, but there's a lot of differing stories. So somewhat some of this idea, the way I say it may be ambiguous because as many times your hear it said one way earth see it said one way, you'll see it said the complete opposite way, but I think this part is is pretty unanimous that air arguing about one of the other cutting in line, and so an altercation ensues and what was said in the argument- is really what most of the witnesses differed on. And so what was said in who initiated. If that's what you, I think, a lot of people said it would,

One way and a lot of people said it went the other way, two sides, every story that which there is there is, but the end result was that fits Patrick. Who, I believe was white howard was african american fitzpatrick grabbed howard, Pending up against the wall and needy men, the growing that that part was pretty well substantiated. That was not one of the parts that was differed among the witnesses, but right somehow, howard's growing begins bleeding, apparently from a previous injury did he'd had and howard, obviously didn't take kindly to be in need and the nether regions and-

He used the sharp object and stabs Fitzpatrick several times in the thighs and in the neck, and Fitzpatrick falls the floor. Howard fleas a scene goes to his mother's home. Hours later, he turns himself into the police Fitzpatrick at this points taken to a nearby hospital, but he ultimately dies from the wounds that that he, received so howard's charge was second degree murder. He plead self defence at his trial, and this is where it really gets into the he said she said because. The howard side is that its patrick used a lot of racial slurs against them in in the argument so rachel

rachel pay crime rate racially motivated altercation, maybe as much as it was about cutting in line at least that's what you know will was alleged trial, but that was denied by howard's wife, so which is kind of strange bright, but she did testify that fits pattern. It said dumb, said made. This quote doing things like this has set your raced back five years. Howard testified that he had cursed at Fitzpatrick and that's what led to the altercation after the the line,

Adding so again it was really hard to pieces story together because there were so many different versions. Fits patrick's widow testified that a security guard had separated the two men at some point when they were having the scuffle right, but that's when howard pull the knife from his jacket any lunged. If its pattern and re establish multiple times, howard and his wife mrs testified that, while how howard was pinned against the wall, a woman handed him a nail file which he used to sell stab fitzpatrick. That would be supporting the self defence, but the nail file was never covered, and this supposed woman that had eight come to his aid with the nail file right.

She was never identified, never came forward and never testified at trial, so the mystery woman yeah mystery woman. I don't want to say she was made up, but they can never substantiate the facts about it. Today, they'd have video yeah tmz, would pray, be there right at some point. So I did read where the jury foreman said that the you have raised did not come up as a factor in the jury room and after long deliberation. Howard was convicted of manslaughter He was originally charge with secondary murder, so they only convicted of manslaughter and he received a sentence of one to twenty five years in prison and that this is the the really interesting part He was paroled after eleven months for good behaviour. Eleven months. That's it that's it me. I I personally know people that of

been in jail for a lot longer than that and never killed anybody so firm serve a crime. The other must have been something there where, obviously there is something there for them to give him. The lesser charge of and slaughter, and then there was something along with his good behaviour that allowed the prison system or made them think that he was a good candidate to be eligible four pearl. It is said that he had no per a previous criminal record but unforced. he and his wife divorce shortly after is released from prison. So she waited eleven months and then been divorced. Then divorcing should enforce them. Wives, zennor yeah, but it's over by the at the reason. I pick this when and the why I thought it was so interesting was the the terence howard connection

resting in I get that famous actor it was that show is on cnn empire empire. Had a watch it I think that's the one he's been in a lot of great movies, he's a great actor. Oh yeah, yeah he's he's pretty he's pretty he's a a list yeah. So at you know, iron man has been an old iron man's and herman yeah he's, maybe not all of them, but he's the m Wendy in the very first one. Wasn't he the The air force guy. He wasn't and I think that don cheadle title takes over after that sorry we're getting away from true crime here, a little bit so the moral to that, the more moral to that story. Moral, more, is a walk away, walk away, yeah something happens while you're in line walk away like a kenny rogers song, yeah.

when we say it now. Please do not. I don't think anybody wants to hear that on christmas morning you know a fur, we should have started the podcast outwards. Let everybody now that if every time you hear gibbey say an angel gets its wing. Yes, yes that way. You know that you have to take it. Take a drink. I can gain christmas. In game. Yeah. Sometimes I say I'm a lot and before the podcast is over. I'm sure you would feel pretty good on this christmas eve christmas day, pretty little woozy, even so here's ears a quick little funny thing to happen when christmas time and corset this is. This is not in the united states, but this is a real quit, whereas it you gotta, tell it isn't. Isn't chile chill out there so anyway report earlier woman told her neighbours that she picked out the best christmas tree? and that in our kids there they were now

holiday ever because of this as well. They should be sure yeah. So you know in the neighborhood goes to look at the tree. It turns out what she picked out was assert gigantic cannabis plant and on it's dinner on purpose. I you know, I think she's played it off as she did it by accident. I mean I don't know how you get that mixed up with the christmas tree, but they look pre, not that I've seen a lot of cannabis plants in person and I've seen em, maybe on tv, but they looked very, very different. now, I don't know about chile. Maybe maybe- is a term like a christmas tree. I don't know what christmas trees look like in chile but say well. I thought I just thought it was funny that I, that that was one of the as our rapporteur will you can see, you can see how we went right, so I picked the little darker.

and you obviously went lighter, which makes which makes for good. We don't want to be too dark. On christmas, I art I do have a little bit of a little darker one, but not too dark okay, real quick here and in it it's. I you know we gotta, we get some fans down in Kentucky. yeah. A lot of fans are turkey yeah, so this one is in Ashland kentucky notes and order, one. It's just we're going back to the late eighteen hundreds, but I just thought it was for our for our fans in Kentucky. They get eighty something else to to here. Besides the you know, the the uk basketball team all time winning do not disparage my uk wildcats. They got big game coming up pretty soon. Yeah Greg had a bunch of big games coming up every game's important to them. It is

so anyway, this is, this is ashland ashland, Kentucky and there's a robber given see seventeen years old, amputee, his sister fanny fourteen in the front emma she's fifteen. They were asleep and some one breaks into the givens And very very early in the morning they decide to bludgeon them to death and they in the the method they use, was crowbar in an axe that can't be a good way to go yeah. I can't imagine a court mean crowbar that has to I think you could go pretty quickly, but a friend of our age on it you know, but our might take a while. Yet that's just that when there would not be my my method of choice now, not only do they do this than the killers

to go ahead and set the house on fire and the course the neighbors they see the flames and they rushed over to try to help and they pull the three bodies out and they see that the sculls or smashed to pieces and delayed later that I go ahead now. I was just going to say it didn't take much to set a house on fire in the eighteen hundreds back, then it was probably pretty easy. Probably didn't need a homemade flame thrower. No, not like your one story now that they would go up pretty easily. I would imagine so the dock thousand he looks at the bodies and he realized tat. The one girl was raped before she was murdered and ultimately they they they find three men queues. of the crime in one is George Alice. One is william Neil one is george craft. Throughout the trial later Alice in any kind of recurrences, whole confession, but heat he good in a back, then they they they hunger,

I think wednesday, or they don't mess around they. They there was no puts you in prison for a while. Fiji gave you a dental educator. Let you appeal for yeah like when you become a lawyer, while you're in prison, so you can appeal your own case. Right is so anyway. I will say that, with the recent cases that have been cropping up where people have been proved denizens by denison by dna. Right, I don't want to say it's a good thing that we do that. But it might be a good thing that we don't do that anymore year, because how many people did they hang the next day a oh and then maybe they even the the day after found out some evidence, and they were my. I guess that guy didn't do it. yeah. Well, they probably like. Let's take that back yeah, let's just move on folks, you know yeah, I dunno what they would have done, but that you're right they did not mess around back in those days know. So. Yesterday I mean, even though he he recanted

they went ahead and lunchtime and then eventually, the other two. They they were hanged, also after their trials. So I mean back in eighteen, eighty one ounce, sir, so I know what tenor out more about that is number one they had crowbar as in eighteen. Eighty one right but true crime and murder. It goes back as far as you can it's human nature. It goes back to the beginning of time right right. There was a cave man that wanted something. So he took the big rock and he hit the other cave man over the head and killed. Him goes back to the bible, man, yeah cain and abel. It's definitely not

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Currently was a very respected family man, he was a doktor decision, area very nice area of LOS Angeles LISA. Wasn't nineteen fifty nine, I'm not sure about right now, the problem with doktor harold perils and is that, He ended a murdered his wife in cold blood on christmas, so apparently the family had a nice dinner, put the two younger kids too bad. And as soon as that happened, doktor perils and went and got a hammer from his garage he returned to the bedroom and palm his wife's head repeatedly geese yeah guilder, his eldest daughter, Judy.

Must have walked in because she saw what was going on and then the doktor goes after her. And he swing in the hammer at her and attacks her it's her in the head. Luckily, the wound kind of grazes off it wasn't like a real landing blow right, but he had a couple of times, but they were all kind of you know grazing type blows, so she was based We just wounded and stunned she's screaming out, don't kill me, her screaming that alerts the neighbors who call the police. So at this point I don't.

and never did really find out what drove doktor perils and that there is no information. I found that really just be married. It could be we ve all. We ve all been there at some point, what he does after the after his oldest daughter gets away and she screamin. He knows the police are common. He basically gowns a bunch of pills And I thought and an basayev which I'm sure they didn't have at that point killed himself and he was dead before the ambulance even arrived. So the good thing about that is left all of his other children alive. Right. His oldest daughter that he attacked didn't die and he didn't go after any of the the two younger kids at all, I'm sure mentally. Fine. After all, it is all the I'm sure they they lived. A great life right had no trauma

Whatsoever, I'm sure they can't wait for christmas to come around every year. Yeah. I really hope they're not listening to this. That would be, I hope, not, but I would feel bad about it. Can you can write to MIKE ferguson at I'm all the time. Actually, this murder occurred on december sick. So am I Around the holiday was around realities limited on, but interestingly enough, but what really capped it for me and why I wanted to put it on the list was that you know it was December six they already. They lived in this big mansion and that's why I guess it's called the loose Phyllis murder. but they had the mansion all decked out for christmas right lights, tensile,

whatever you had in nineteen fifty nine, they had it, they had all of the they had the christmas tree up already and they had all the presents already under the tree. So I mean that's pretty early, I guess at least in my household December six to have everything ready and maybe some families do it like that. But you know we wait for santa to bring our gifts and then make sure everything's under the tree. You know christmas eve. What am I talking about Ok, kids, to this right there better, not be any kids. Listen to this, I'm tellin you right now. So, as I say, the christmas tree is up the presence or wrapped under the tree. And they remain there today, really That's what I find so interesting about this that they remain there today. This house is still there really an appeal

lee from what I read how old what I was reading is. But this is then a destination for visitors and arrested in the group some in the a to visit, who owns it. I don't know who runs it so the family said after your list don't open those. I gather presence behind. Yeah freaky. I am, I know it was born, and sold many times over the year. Re but for whatever reason they They must have known what happened there right and maybe they bought it too. I don't know what what what state was, as it is, california, so California alas, angels so night, you haven't in nineteen, fifty nine, maybe one of our elephant. We do have a lover. We do have a lot of listeners in law

Sancho said everybody knows about them the loss this murder, mansion, citizen, us email, because I just thought that was so interesting that they left the presents wrap they left the tree up. They left everything for visitors. I want to know which, in the presence that might ruin it, I dunno could be something really cool, It teak like, but there's a no trespassing side. So this is not. This is not a so the family still owns it. I guess- or now I read it so I read that it had passed so it's what so strange somebody's keepsake of brutal, oh five by a house and I'm not imagine a mansion even that up as a sign that every time I see it, I know a woman was I'd like to get that backstory killed by her husband.

even with the no trespassing sign it's not stopping people from walking on proper to try and trying to look in windows and and view it at the expense of keeps because people are into that. So what do you got for us? So can you lighten up a bit. Gonna go or go dark. I was gonna, keep keep the dark thing just for one more time herrick. As you know, I've got some friends over pittsburgh paean. I thought they might enjoy. Just sir christmas murder So this was a go back about a hundred years, but I do find it in resting. This was actually a whole holiday dinner party that usa holiday in the how'd. You get back years ago, the first hour of the day, We want let folkestone actor. So, is a holiday dinner party

as a young man, John Johnson, his wife, Amy, have their friend Daniel over Daniels wife had a mutual friend named george castle and they all gathered together at the johnson's house and they were spent in a nice evening celebrating christmas with good food. Drank ventures, started airing their past grievances? I guess you did that back then right, gonna, like the christmas new year's thing, talk about your past grievances. Get over overcome, or the sign thought up so yeah airing of grievances yeah. What was called the with the with the metal pole, festivals, festival, best threat, as well as for the rest of their, way they they were, they were airing their grievances with each other. The booze started making its rounds.

So about seven o clock. After an argument, over old grudge turn a little better Daniel. He grabs a gun and he tries to shoot John Johnson John's wife Amy sees him that the gun is going to be pointed at her husband, so she leaps and to her husband's defence and jump right in front of them which she had taken the bullet to her right side. Of course, at that point, do, you realize what he did and we know Baxter. and runs out of the house. However, at that point was too late that the the wound that Amy suffered was fatal so again assists in here? They are everybody enjoin holidays, we ve all been there get together Is your family, your friends, your relatives and start talking about things in the past and in some I met some of these family events. It get heeded,

It gets no heed it. You know in this, of course, this one well too far. Somebody pulled out the gun and. decided shoot. Somebody aura an old arguments. I it it over a card games. Isn't it our gambia cousins, cheating? It can be. I know some of your families. Listen to you, I'd be careful. I do some people just get mad cause. They lose yeah that makes them mad, makes them mad get upset and walk out on some people get upset cause. I eat the last of the certain food I like at mine and they want to know why I didn't save it for them, and I say too bad too bad. So sad, once a year I get to eat this food. So first, forget the way to be highly yet you down with Alan I've done without one so the time for one more day they would do yeah. So I'm going to talk about the charlie lawson murders.

And I'm gonna go back a ways to nineteen twenty nine and this happen just before christmas. Charlie lawson, who apparently had a very large family, his wife fanny nor again got a couple of fannys here, the retard about really here that name anymore. It s not too much. Nowadays. He's his children are Marie seventeen arthur sixteen carry twelve may bell seven june thanks for raymond too, And Mary lou four months, while so one too three four: five: six, seven kids, A lot of cold nights in that house yeah seven, some kiss a lotta kid, so we know they were doing they weren't sleeping

one and do the math on Marie seventeen and arthur sixteen sonya so anyway. are taking is his family on what was described as an uncommonly lavish trip to buy new outfit I'm assuming they didn't, have a ton of money Firstly, the seven kids that many kids. so they needed these new outfits because they gonna take a family portrait. Problem is that the new outfit that they bought would turn out to be burial clothes for everyone. So christmas day, this is when Charlie lawson begins slaughtering his whole family were so. This is not at. This is not a cheerful, Christmas is your now again amending on yeah this, which are probably be our last one amending dark nice. So he starts

Shooting up his whole family with a shotgun. he shoots, carrion may bell first. And then starts to go after his wife, the boys. They all try to hide sousa here. The shots. and maurice is screaming, but eventually he finds them all and he kills every one of em. Even the poor, little four month old, Mary lou case. Maybe I maybe we should end it with one of your funny ones. Yeah so there I'm sorry, there was one survivor and that was arthur. Sixteen who was not there when he returned to the farm or he escaped and went and got a police officer. They returned to the to the farm to find out that his father, charles,

he had committed suicide. The probably the craziest part of this story that that I had read was the motive rights on some of these other ones. We China may be known the motive some of em- we really didn't know as much about it this one. It was alleged and I'll say alleged. Even though this is nineteen, twenty nine certain things matters, but it was alleged charlie and his oldest daughter, Marie had been having an incestuous affair. So hard word to say it's hard, I can't say yes hard to think about I was asking you to try the outskirts got any say illinois right, so a friend of reason again Marie, as is the seventeen year old daughter, even claim that

he told her. She was pregnant with charlie's baby, my father's own, her own fathers baby. and both charlie and his wife knew all about. So the theory is that charley was so aid up with guilt, or he was. So unwilling to be a dad to this child that he was going to be having with his seventeen year old daughter, that. He didn't know what else to do any just snaps. These slaughters. The whole family either way. The reason why I want to do this when last is you probably goes down as one of the most heinous christmas murders, keep in mind. This happened actually on christmas. This is probably the one of the most heinous murders and in united states history, so

on christmas he wasn't happy. So he decides to take out the whole family and then himself so just taken himself out and let in the family. Their own lives. Why I've never understood that writers We ve seen that in a lot of news, Media story- is where Somebody went on a ram page and they killed a bunch of people then killed themselves. Cheerier first story: yeah was then, Why not just kill yourselves and be done with me? I'm not advocating that anybody should commit suicide well. But if europe and is to go out and a large number of people, and you know, you're ultimately going to kill yourself just take care of yourself yeah. I don't get that I mean, or is it fame? Is it not obviously not nineteen, twenty nine? No, he wasn't looking for fame, but which is even string.

For nineteen twenty nine having been taken. You know Europe you're better with her was shot gun than I am, but I'm just thinking how fast you had to be ass yet to be with a shock and back and nineteen twenty nine to go around the house to shoot the wife and seventy it's. Yeah one got away, but still I mean you'd have to be pretty good with a shotgun depends on what it corral em, all smith. I get it off at. I think, there's a double barrel mania and I'm sure the kids were shocked to but they were scattering running aid. They just probably words shocked what was happening. What said they there, they tried to hide and, of course, the he found them and they were probably pretty easy. Tar it's very good I'd take them. so yeah. Sorry, it ended on such a downer. You gotta have one you get somethin, something too go out on her

wish, you wish, you don't have another giant christmas we'd tree story. I wish I tat. I came finish. The sandwich now alright gibi, so we wanted to do just kind of a a hodge podge of of christmas stories for people. You know they didn't have to pay too close attention to they could listen to one on their new, their newly unwrapped gifts, but we definitely want to get a christmas episode out and we wanted to daphne tell all of our listeners that we wish them a year. very merry christmas and a happy holidays. Happy holly

is and again how unbelievably grateful we are for the number of people that have been listening to the show. It's it's beyond, I think either of are. We can have a magic that it would take on this quickly. So so again. Thank you very much soon as a message lesson to. Let us know how your holiday went yeah. Definitely we we love the interaction of family, though those of you that have been in Iraq. with the sun, twitter and facebook you know we're very responsive email. We e mail from a gentleman in ireland yeah the other day which, I just thought was amazing: it was pretty cool and he I think he ended it. Up with keep. You know, keep up the good job lads and I was doing it in my head with the with an irish baroque yeah just the think, when we're out in ireland. So that was pretty cool so for mike and yet be.

We really want to wish you a merry christmas and I'll, say stay say: fan keep your time taking I the.