Rebecca Shaeffer was an up and coming actress in the late 1980's. She had already landed roles in a soap opera, on a sitcom, and in several movies. She had fans all over the world. But one fan in particular, Robert John Bardo, would develop an obsession with Rebecca that would ultimately lead to murder. Join Gibby and I as we detail out this case that would be the catalyst for many of the anti-stalking laws that are on the books today. Visit our website at http://truecrimeallthetime.com where you'll find all of our contact information. You can click through to our Patreon page if you want to help support the show financially. Please rate/review us on ITunes and don't forget that our new podcast True Crime All The Time Unsolved is out now as well. An Emash Digital Production
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hello, everyone and welcome to lapse of eleven to crime. All the time me mash digital production, I'm your host
Like ferguson and always, I've got my partner crime and co host MIKE
be gibson in studio with me, giving
It's going on today, good morning afternoon evening, depending on when you're listening or when we're taping or when we're tape- and you never know now- most of you are familiar with Jeffrey dump. We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted individual mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer, on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle war takes us through the story, starting with Dahmer, his childhood and the first murder all the way through his death. The podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives, journalists and others close to the case to explore exactly what happened and how-
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gimme. Let's talk about this case.
Involves the
talking and murder of actress, rebecca Schaefer right is probably from them.
First well known stalker case yeah and
I don't know what the demographic
actually a variety answers folk
that are our age,
gonna. Remember this for sure
Some of the younger.
Listeners, may not remember this because they
They may not even have been born. Yet this takes place in.
Canadian, I'm eighteen, eighty, nine so, but let
let's get into it. First of all, we have to start talk. We have talked about rebecca right. He knows
Rebecca Schaefer was born in eugene organ
On november six nineteen sixty seven
she was only child to Dana and doktor benson schaefer. Who apparently was a child psychologist right
she was raised in the portland area.
Began modeling,
during her junior year of high school
you wanted to be a rabbi early on. She did what yeah I did read that decided some
he stumbled and some modelling and it went well in the air
that out, because I didn't get the facts of why she won.
to be a rabbi and then all of a sudden jumped modeling. It's good that you bring it up, but I just didn't have a thing, sir love her. That really know the religion. Does she was yeah so
so then she went on and did some
local modeling, that she got good responses on that. So,
Yeah, look more like department store catalogues, I think even some local television commercials right so that egg,
no ahead. Muttered a letter moved to new york city on our own.
Around eighty four, I think here is what I had. Then she does
some modeling my she's they're, not
its success at it, because the fact that I
she was coast. She was just too short right. She was in the modeling industry. I don't know how it work, yeah, what you know it's it's crazy because
when I read where she was five, seven, which I would think
some of that at least average, if not above average, for of female yeah. I would think so gabby at least air
I think that's probably average.
in the world of high fashion, that's
It's considered to be very short sure. That's what I read and you know she even
move to japan in and eighty five
To try to get some other men
willing gigs in an even they told her. She was too short right
but you know I've never understood the world of high fashion. Anyway, I don't know who in the world buys all that stuff. I see,
people like on tv
walking down the runway
in some of the sum of the ugliest dresses I've ever seen.
You know I think, the way
standard as it sets their concept design and in the big story
Selina may sees the
Bloomingdale's the deadline set
maybe it's because where we live, but I dont see people walking around in any of that stuff. I think they distort take that concept and than they have been the designers tweet,
to be more mainstream,
I'm sure somewhere. Somebody where's that stuff, but not now not hearing dayton now
people with a lot more money than than if you're after wearing this stuff from high and fashioned show shoot a message headaches. So we know there is actually people wearing that stuff exactly,
I did want to say the mining wasn't going well, like you mentioned
but she did land a roll on
soap opera, one like to live yet when she was in new york. She goes back me york. She gets that.
that gig there and kind of leads on to a few other gigs yeah. I I don't. I never watch soaps, but one life to live was probably really popular, probably an hour.
I dunno. I think a lot of them have died off. Don't have that. I'm not sure I never was a soap person, but she
her character was caught any barnes and I'm sure there's some people. That will probably remember that right if they were usually a future
if you're big on in the soap opera it that some
that you watched you, you remember a lot of those characters, but I
her big break
comes and eighty six and
its then that she lands the cover of seventeen magazine right and that's
big deal. That was a huge deal back back then
Seventy magazine made it made a lot of people famous lot of models,
took him to another level. But it's definitely
at another level because, as I believe it
every producer catches that yeah and likes the way she looks right it. It puts her on the radar of these, like he said a television producer and
they are in the process of casting a new show called my sister, sam and rebecca. You gets the part right.
you know she wins the part of paddy
and she ends up playing
opposite of pam dawber
work and mending fame. Oh yeah, who is sam?
and don't know your member, the show, I actually don't remember the show it was short lived and was like on a year and a half yeah we'll talk about it, but it was short lived.
Dont, remember watching it specifically, but good.
This part leads her from
aids to her moving from new york to
california right, which is going to
You have set up some of the story, but I did a little clip of
my sister SAM just in case any by remembers it
I'd probably russell. This is my sister sam. I just moved in. We haven't lived together since we were kids. I was raised by her aunt and uncle things sure have changed. I used to dress her. I can't wait to wear it. Just makes up the haircut you gave me when I was three the
if anything that I think the soundtrack may be sounds a little more familiar to me. Then the show it
As you know, we hear this
He's did put her in the spotlight because
It was an actual set com on a major network, yet actually took off fairly
in the beginning: it did. It was getting really good ratings, what they procedure and for some reason
the second season and at a lot of people, talk about the sophomore slump right which
as happened with some shows fizzled out, and it did fizzle out in the the second season and it was cancelled
rebecca would go on to appear in some other films over the next.
few years. Nothing
that the I really
new over or remembered
no nothing big right now. If I saw it.
I might be oh yeah, I remember that yeah right, but
by name and re mission right, these were not big movies and some are even made
tv movies. I think that she did,
but she was up and calmer right.
and she I mean to the point that you know new york
here and will bear that she was getting right to audition fur for a huge film, yet the godfather part, three
godfather part three to be part of that would it would have been, which was not was now
godfather one in two no, but it still have. But it was a big picture. It had to be in the same movie would
in a petition owen,
damn that would that would have been huge yeah. I you know. I.
if, for those of you, that no godfathers godfather time, favorite.
One in two. I could sit and watch all day
three I'll watch it so hard. But it's not me
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two: five hundred five hundred: that's audible, dot com, slash de cat or text tcp tee to five hundred five hundred. So I think
we're getting at is lacking.
she's, an up and calmer you at this point. She
she still only.
twenty very, very early twenty, their right and very attractive.
She is a very attractive girl, still modeling. She was just on a sit com. What
This caused
her to have a lot of fans, I'm sure all over the world, and here that's
That's what happens when you become a celebrity in especially
You know if you are a very attractive person, and on top of that you're a celebrity you ten,
to attract a lot of fans and she was a sweetheart.
From all from all accounts, she she really was
the problem is: she had won in one fan in particular named
robert John Bardo, who
take his obsession with rebecca to the extreme right
That's that's what this case is really all about, so I thought we
talk a little bit about Robert Bardo
just a little bit about his background
he was the youngest of seven children.
His mother was korean and
Father was an officer in the united states air force, so the
We moved a lot.
You know my! I have some family that better air force a
that's in and they moved a lot, so they travelled line and not use that as a derogatory term. But right you know they they,
moved a lot and saw the world and it seems like he may make
move quite a bit to be military, said
kids and we will
that milk military pay, especially back then
Wouldn't have been that great, so
Seven kids,
I'm sure that- and you know that
talk about how he was gonna beat up by some of his assembling. So I'm sure there was a lot of
hiding in between the siblings right. So I mean they eventually settling tucson arizona and in like eighteenth nineteen, eighty, three,
and you mentioned him. You know it.
by all accounts he had a troubled childhood sure that should be
surprise to no one, because I dont think
as a case. Yet where we haven't had to say right now, there was one now now
they're, probably never will be won because
a troubled childhood goes a long way towards some of these individuals do and what they do
but you mentioned him, your kind of being beaten up,
I brothers and sisters
you actually add that he was abused by bye
one or more of his siblings, and then he got to the point where he had to be
and foster care which gotta be pretty extra,
to put one of your own
In nineteen eighty three yeah and put one year old, kids in foster care yeah, so either I mean to the point that he he was just too much to handle yeah and I guess he had threatened to commit suicide yeah and so that
kind of all boiled over in and lead into him being putting foster, and it was only was round. Fifteen yeah, I'm not
not sure what age it was when I did have gibbey was, according to one of his teachers, they
bardo, was a time bomb on the verge of exploding.
And now
apparently, when he was
Protein and
This may have been even before summer.
Their stuff. We are talking about here,
robust domain in search of samantha Psmith. This was kind of a a big deal
Samantha smith was, it, was a child herself she'd, be
famous for sending a letter to mikhail gorbachev,
She had gained a lot of notoriety issues like a peace activists back yet to already he's get.
Tourism stocking bright and
the authorities finding they bringing back to two tucson.
and you didn't
dichotomy here is, that is teachers all said. He was a good student,
I think he was somewhat intelligent right, but
he had a habit of writing his teachers threatening letters.
and as I think,
he mentioned. He was hospitalized a couple times right because of
When I read is so
fear, emotional damage right, but again
When you come from that
childhood sure,
you're siblings are abusing you, you threatened.
Commit suicide. You know that he didn't.
he didn't, have a great need:
sure part of the equation right then we'll have a strong supporting system there in homer doesn't sound like so
The point even drops
school right
yea drops out of high school.
Ninth grade doesn't even make it pass them
Grade, even though, by all accounts, he was a I
good student. I dont know how smarty is or what is I q was better in them.
So what's he began doing start?
working as a janitor, jack
jack in the box.
I know that in turn
in that time,
you know that eventually get sir rested a few times right. You gets arrested for
domestic violence, disorderly conduct,
In a social life, shocker mean we can see this again and again in some other killers,
you talked about that they have you no criminal, you know a pass them
Yeah, I even hybrid that some of his neighbors said that he exhibited unexplored
and strange and threatening behaviour towards them. That's when they really don't wanna have Yeah psych, psychotic neighbour, so where we are,
he's sixteen years old, give or take
working as gender jack in the box.
This is the I believe
fall of nineteen eighties nineteen. Eighty six.
Becomes
fan of the television show my sister SAM important
pillar. He becomes obsessed with the character paddy, which we already said is played by rebecca Schaefer right.
to the point where what I had
the research I had done said he. He built a shrine to her in his bedroom.
I don't know what what that involved.
But I'm picturing that my head of nothing but pictures
posters and come scary,
Yeah, I mean that's, that's full on its git,
Into full obsession now think back when I was a kid I had one up,
couple of posters, Michael Jordan, fair fawcett, ball, firefox it
Charlie's angels
three, the Sahel warrior, but you know yeah, but
wasn't obsessed right. So I
When I think of those work shrines either radical
A posters of folks I,
I don't wanna velvet cause. I was, can end Elvis better. Yet,
You wouldn't call that a shrine. No, I mean this thing,
you're on your dad would keep morrison. Although
pictures and that's a shrine. This sum is stuff that he's a touched. The somehow you got hold of a vessel probably
what, if you're, listen? That's not true at all, be working so well.
you know, look let's talk about, you got the shrine, but again you know them
rebecca is getting tons
fan mail, tons of letters,
A lot of the letters that she's getting our from Bardo.
becomes obsessed right
Writing all these letters to her
You had made mention that she was a great person.
And one of the things that she does is like you, and I talk
about we try to respond to everything that we get now we don't get.
Near as much as what actual celebrities kid
we get people on social media that email us. You know
when I have a dialogue right.
but what she does she response.
One of his letters and
in writing back.
saying that
His letter was the most beautiful that she had ever received.
And on her letter she draws a p sign heart and she signs it with love from rebecca right there
is the problem, and what does that do to somebody? That's obsessed right. Just.
Solidifies day they feel
You feel the same way they feel about you rat. He is you know in
in a warped persons, mind
he's telling him that she loves him.
Now you- and I would get that in just think.
that's just some trying to be not right course.
Because when you celebrity does not love me, but to him and in the way that his mind is working at that point in time he thinks it's swell. She loves me right
that very day the that he receives that here
it's in his
Journal that he will
to become famous to impress her dough gibbey
you're in june of eighty seven. This
when.
bardo tries to go to to burbank studios and
my understanding is that you, like you, mentioned here,
a couple times, because the warner brothers.
Which is in burma. The burbank studios warner brothers lot, which is where my my sister standards being take an he
I took it in fact
security guard to see rebecca and the first time the security guard,
Turned him away: no dice, no dice, not letting parent liese carrying a five foot teddy bear and a bouquet of roses that doesn't
stalker on and I dont know what does but ok fight five foot taber
a good sized study. That is a good sized, but there again
Nothing to dangerous right then, and there right, but this
in time when he comes back a month later, he s got a knife, but again
and they don't let him in there doing their job.
got no reason to beyond the lot. So yes, so he you know
he's at a lost cause, I can't get an answer doesn't know how to get to her. So I think
is discouraged
Does an apparently
yeah he returns the tucson after
going to get to get into the studio, and he writes in his diary- and I I
one. I stress this because he says
dont lose period with period. The word period spelt out. What's that mean
you are alarming: he's gonna do whatever it takes right, he's gonna make sure he gets under these, not taking no for an answer. Now. What
The ultimate goal is idle,
we don't know at this point, but whatever it is, he sang I'm not
hey, I'm not gonna, lose
do whatever it takes now
something happens:
he's back and to tucson, and this is that upsets him.
Upsets bardo. He sees rebecca schaefer in a movie.
and the movie is called the class struggle in beverly hills and
this movie
It has a
sexy nora. You know, canada, a bed,
seen with a male actor.
And that really upsets bardo. You again
in his mind,
separating the fact that he seeing so
thing on,
ripped it on screen.
I think his mind, is working correctly at this
point in time, because he's enraged by the fact that she,
kissing or making out with this guy in a movie scene.
Currently this is what's starts to set him off because he
size than in there that
Becker has to be punished for
Her immorality ass, he called it
even going to the point of you take
it diagram, drawing a diagram of her body, and
working all the different spots where he planned to shoot her. It's at this point that
he asked says older brother edgar to buy him again so.
He goes to says some justice.
following this, so he goes to the studio twice
Can't get in gets frustrated goes back home.
then he cannot stocks Debbie give senator
For for a short period of time,
that doesn't turn out to be anything so now
he sees this movie she's in rebecca.
lane and bad.
Next to a guy. He gets furious thing.
isn't an gonna, be another hollywood whore.
And so now he's asking his brother the go, get em again yeah yeah
and then this is worth it strange for me because.
Normally, you would think we. You have an obsession with one person he had.
and I think he had an obsession with,
Or tried to have an obsession with a bunch of different people.
For what reason I dont know what was what was the end? Ultimately,
I think he just wanted to be famous yeah. I think so too
there. There is some
some evidence and, and some people talking on others,
search that I did. That said that all
Lee. He wanted to be famous because why
why the stocking more
more people figuring out.
this person can't be you know him
gotten into and then going on to the nearest some of the actions that here
ex some of the
he carry some of the things that he does move inform cannon make you
It really makes you think, that's what he wants. You want to be famous. Ah you talk about catcher in there. I hear yet, let's talk about it because
ultimately he ends up and with
The catcher in the rye book, when
the thing goes down,
It's all said and done we're going to talk about here miniature.
That just Harkin's back to chapman hinkley- and
for whatever reason catcher in the rye is
will I will say, related inner.
turning your twined with a lot of these to those that are there,
trying to relate to that the the character holden. Is that what it is I mean, obviously the the character is I mean you got three copies on your desk. There I mean I do have a copy on the bookshelf. Yeah I know.
characters, disillusioned and you know so I think
It's easy for some of these folks to relate to that character.
But it is something that a lot of them have this book in their possession at the time
they do what they want. They do right
Before we get to that, you know
Bardo is just sitting tons of letter still to rebecca likely
talked about he's got a shrine is room.
He even sent the really.
and a crazy letter to his sister who
in tennessee
it said that if he couldn't have rebecca nobody
good.
That's a warning. If I've ever heard exactly of one
and it's really so at this point
hops, a bus in tucson
and he's heading four hollywood and he's gonna
down rebecca.
And so we're gonna work.
sporting can up to July, seventeenth of nineteen. Eighty nine.
Bordeaux is in
Now in california, trying to fight
Rebecca Schaefer he's a call
agents office
he's he's trying to find out where she lives. I think he even went as far as
To people on the street showing the show pitch her picture here and saying: hey: do you know where this person lives? It ends up that.
He pays a private detective torrent fifty dollars to help find her
like wait. Why did you do that? I know you got some information on that. Well, I mean he found out
Somehow he found out that the attacker
Teresa cell baino, my saint
last name right,
so llanos algeria, pisa. Yes, so her attacker, you know he pay,
a private detective
Find out where she lived in west hollywood and he was a
to obtain that information for her attack.
and to barter
copy copied, but the same thing off at once. There is detective to forty bucks. What another attack, or did that
crazy part about it, though,
Neither one of them knew is there,
in nineteen. Eighty nine. You could just
Walk into the caliph
the in office
dollar phil
a form
with a little bit of information.
You can even lie on the form about what you want it for right and you could get somebody's address s crazy. Now we're gonna
talk when we
about aftermath like we always do right what changes
about as a result of that case, you know,
it's one of em, but so there each of these people paid the detective to turn her fifty
the detective. Probably just went down and pay the dollar kept two to forty nine
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So he gets or information. So it's got her address, that's what he was, after, which
as to the morning of July eighteen
eighteen. Eighty nine.
bardo
he's wearing a yellow shirt here.
ouch rebecca, is building
an rings, the doorbell rebecca at that time. I think
lived in unit. For you like me, to
About he's carrying a copy of the
catcher awry. Ruby
it opens the door and she talks time very politely, as
said, with some, we think she was a very nice person
but she does say to him. You know I'm right,
busy.
You, ve gotta leave, and this goes back,
two godfather three, because
everything I read was she she's up for this role and she was weight
for the script to be delivered, spoke, be left on her front door act
think it's one of the reasons why she had
No problem going
the door because she kept thinking which the script
script when the door bell rang because run or thin. Thirdly, buzzard worked better come worked as a buzzer, but he couldn't communicate through dinner com. It was broken this idea just the boss, so she just knew somebody was at the door for her unit right. So every time it rang she came because she kept thinking of the script so
Piss Bardo off
even though she was polite
she's a celebrity. She said you know, I can't really talked you right now. I'm busy here
walks away steamed.
And thinking that she was rude to him, even though she probably wasn't
So what's he do it?
to genes
strong nearby restaurant
He ordering waters.
Among in rings and slice cheesecake J, I found varies
strange combo.
just on your rings, no hamburger. No, no!
meat, just hanging rings and cheesecake the about
like you- we talked about in the beginning
snakes and eighty nine. I just don't think celebrities were taken. The same kind of precautions
they were now. I mean even
even somebody on a brand new television show would not.
come answer the door. If you
writing their doyle. I dont believe not today would not not in today's world, but back then you get.
think we didn't have,
the same amount of paparazzi.
We didn't have the internet.
All of these social media outlets that we do today and bay,
sickly, what that has done, and in today's world it left
This feel or let some
or feel that their their basis
we very very close to the their favorite celebrities.
I think you mentioned early on, he had to do a lot of work to feed.
Like Hell, you know sending letters I mean who sends a letter wins
It's time, you actually wrote a letter put
stamp on it and mailed it not counting bills which
china and and, and nowadays most people must be that do that use stamford stamp yeah three year he pay did in a pay. Everything
digital online, so
he's our genes restaurant eating his,
weird order of onion rings and cheesecake and.
when he gets done with that, he goes back to rebecca, is building about an hour later thirty
it's an hour. I read differing accounts bright.
He rang the bell this time
sheep. She comes down again again.
like we said she probably is thinking that it's this script forgot
The three she
he's in her house coat.
Opens the door
and this time I think she
I dont know how anybody knows exact
what she said other than him in a must,
The information coming from him or or peoples is
he yeah.
She does by all accounts- and it's probably his account say something like
now she's a little more agitated. She says: you're wasting my time.
Please leave me alone, I'm busy something to that effect.
bardo respond
I pulling a three fifty seven out any shoots her. Something like I forget to give you this year.
and I think he headed in a bag her on the way
I didn't, but so at this point you know he shoots her and point point
can a chess right yeah me he's close, I a thrifty, seven that would do.
Major damage. Yes, the three fifty seven, depending on what kind of bullet
it is a sizeable round
some neighbors hear the gunshots? Apparently there were a couple of gunshots. I don't know how many times he shot her. Some reports said to and
some really loud screams there,
rush to shavers
a door. They find
her body clad in a black robe and at this point
She's twitching and the four year so she's tightened
She still alive.
even though, when
this neighbour checks are pulse,
he doesn't find anything. So not. You know that just nervous
yeah, another system still twitching or something the paramedics say that when they get their versus light pulse, that's why they pronounced
the hospital. But you know you got
Richard goldman across the street, he runs over
What's the neighbor you're talking about it is an ace, I'm sure he may not have been a doctor. So who knows how he's checking for Paul right but you're right? He hears the you know, he's alerted by the shot and that in the in the two loud screams and of course he sees what probably,
is bardo, runnin, away, yell, sure, yellow giant kiki here many of the other neighbour
well,
listen billy in the next door. He also heard the shot and screams and ran to help, but again, tommy
there was little. He could do exist,
but but you're right, because they do rush her to cedars sinai here, and it does say that she for about thirty men, very saint, Paul, sitter
work on her, but ultimately you know pronounce her den
I think when you get the people on the scene, actually thinking that she was dead, you know but but not pronounced dead. You know it's kind of so at this point, barton,
takes off again.
I don't know if you have this, because I don't have this information might, but he ends up in
in tucson the next day I dunno. If he takes the bus back
I actually didn't see it. I don't know how he got there, but he he gets back to tucson yeah, I'm sure he probably took a bus or or something he could even hitchhiked people are still hitchhiking. Maybe back then, but that's a long way to hitchhike from California to tucson
but things start to get crazy with him.
We have several motorists,
Call nine one one and
reporting that a man is running around and traffic on it.
they ten
report. Is that he's trying purpose we too to get hit?
right, not trying to dodge cars on the highway he's trying to get some might run him over on the highway. Please
there, the taken into custody and
he confesses to the murder immediately from from all accounts
stated waste any brownie think they knew he was at that point, but
I mean they do faxes
susie confesses they facts. All this information.
to los angeles and witnesses are able to confirm. Yet this is the man that that we all round the neighbourhood and that that we saw running they d, the
listen tucson arizona, obviously couldn't have known
or even asked him if he was the man that shot rebecca,
safer, they wouldn't even them now. So
for whatever reason he did what he wanted to do, what he felt
he needed to do and.
he was goin back shit, crazy, runnin around the highway.
He obviously one to get caught, were killed in the many
he's caught. He he confessed to them.
So I got a little tape from
from Bardo here it is
pretty powerful stuff,
I didn't have an identity of what I wanted to do in life, and I was always looking for my greatest source of happiness and it always would be that public failure, that's what happened with michelle says, never met the guy. There seen the guy, but they want him sleepy want to have a personal relationship with him, commercial advertising or show and her personality. She was very open with her personality and she's still a stranger, and I I interested in he interests me in the show. I bet I'd, be the magazine. Articles person I haven't read those magazine articles feel like I know the way they talk about themselves through family lines, both the positive movement and took point to become famous. You feel, like you know these people, it's not like they're strangers, because you see them on tv or see them at the movies people feeling like they've, been with you all your life, because you're always hearing about them- and it's like you always hear about when you know they have a relationship with another person or whatever happens in their life. It's like you're, along for the ride their life. To me, my victim wasn't a stranger because, like me, not so much a magazine articles, I saw the person on the tv all the time I felt like the person was accessible, all right so
yeah. That was that
bardo
years later,.
Talking about
giving a little bit of insight about. You know his
action and how he felt in in- and things like,
There was actually one other audio clip
that I really wanted to include gibbey, and I know you liked it by eta- it's
so hard to hear it. I don't even think people could have heard it, so I thought maybe you could just out of that kind. I have a re account of it in our borrow. You know when he's describing the his the owner
He's ascribing incident himself right. He saying she had this
kid voice. Sound
like a little brad or something I said, I was wasting your time wasting your time, no matter what I thought that was very cows thing for her to say to her fan. You know
I grabbed the door gun stone the bag grabbed by the trigger.
a come around in a pal and she's like screamin scream, and why and it's like, oh god, so this is what you know: the tape
that he's on saying that the hear from him a worthy it would be better. It's just. I could not find a good enough.
copy that I think people could have even understood it. If you really want to hear it, you can go out on the internet and find it and try to decipher what he says and there might be some that subtitle it yeah it's just, but just to see his face and his expression as he saying it, because the the differences, the one that we played happen that was years later, that's older, right, bardot and the one that you're talking about is from
a much much sooner right. After he's right, this is how it is being reviewed by the third. I guess
the state psychologist or the county psychologist to determine. If he's a
ease extradited to California,
from arizona his
Defence attorneys were
pleading that he had an unstable mental condition. Dude,
childhood abuse. I don't know
That's true, but
he definitely was unstable and some capacity,
The issue always becomes, did he know right from wrong?
The very interesting thing about this one is that-
the prosecutor in this case
was a young marcia clark who
later, obviously, everybody knows become famous
her work during the o J simpson trial and I got some great audio of her that I want to play. I get completely
albin completely committed? In all my cases, there was an emotional aspect to this case because of because of the nature of the victim. This was just such a sweet, innocent, vulnerable victim who did nothing but spread joy and light to everyone around her and to have that life. Snatched away so brutally is a is an incredibly horrible and depressing experience. The first time he went to her door. Ah, he expected to speak through. The intercom did not expect to see her and unbeknownst to him. Her intercom didn't work. She came directly down the hallway and open the door and startled him. He was on prepared for her personal appearance and when she came out straight to the door, he couldn't respond in time. She took control of the situation and he was intimidated.
It wasn't a very intimate contact that he engaged in in order to commit the murder he went up to her face to face he strode up to where she stood as she opened the door she was leaning over. He grabbed her by the arm to hold her still to immobilize her to make sure that he would succeed in hitting the target, and then he raised this very large gun firing. It hearing the loud report of a three fifty seven magnum that site. That sounds like a cannon, especially in the acoustical conditions. He fired it in directly into her heart and he saw the spurt the artery, the arterial spurt of blood as her heart literally exploded in her chest,
bartos motivation in killing Rebecca Schaeffer was the quest for fame. He wanted to be famous, he knew of no skill he had or town he had. That would make him shine, and so he chose the easy way to the top. If you will, and the one way he knew of to get fame was to kill someone famous and attach himself in a parasite like fashion to the fame that that person had.
I feel like setting up a hit on diane cannon at her hollywood hills home. This is all fantasy, of course, but so was my love for rebecca and she's dead. He considered Madonna rejected, considered tiffany even went to her concert but wrote about how he noticed the heavy security and rejected it. Debbie Gibson was another one that he tracked all the way to new york found her to be inaccessible, rejected. Her then came rebecca Schaeffer. I know where she lives. I can get to her.
I don't know why, but it sounds so much better when marcia talks about it. Here
number one she's a hell of a lot smarter than we are but
Madonna was one.
That was one that I did not see. Yeah we didn't talk about and dyan cannon right now madonna was
star. Yes, I mean it was
Well, I guess eighty nine and late eighties. Yes, she was getting very, very big yeah. It was the climbing up very fast, but I think
it does corroborate what you and
we're talking about which is you know, he
fixated on rebecca schaefer by.
Yeah he was, he would try to fix aid on other people out there who, like anybody, he thought that he can get access to
who's going to I'm,
Just think about how those people feel how
lucky they have tiffany Debbie Gibson right. You know
because by all accounts it could happen that it could have been them.
like to hear marcia talk here. She
sit together in a way that uses. Furthermore, let us, but of course frozen involved and not in in all of it. So right she's got a lot of the details, so
I think we know
the trial was.
as you would imagine, the trial would go here, he's convicted
capital murder he
Did for a non jury trial in
change for. I believe them taking off the death penalty incorrect. So what you had my yeah so
no jury. They
They argue both sides argued in front of the judge and he stone face through the whole thing yeah, except except for
when they play
was that you too saw song, they call an exit and he is he's jam in it
you mean you watching him and he's in
he's in that chair and he's- I mean he's he's you know-
saying the lyrics in as I carry oki nigh yeah had a bad irene.
He knew he was as you all sudden when that music came on, that they played as like some
took over in his body, and you can just see him iraq and back and forth with it saying the lyrics.
And it was very strange- it was definitely definitely strain we don't. I don't have that in audio, but you can definitely find that on the big part of the song that the hears it talks about, you know hand in the pocket finger on the steel, the
await heavy his heart, he could feel was bearing beating
Beating my love and that's what they can relate backed
why he liked it. So
he's ultimately sentenced to life.
pearl on
number twentieth, nineteen, ninety one
Bardo yoke
I had some some words for the judge that were
you quote the idea I killed her for fame is totally ridiculous
I do realise the magnitude of what I ve done. I dont think it needs to become pounded
while a bunch of lies because she's an actress
what you make that yeah he's basically saying that I do
kill her for fame.
So. What is that? Why did he kill her? Because
is obsessed with her and he was mad, that
she was in love, see I just
By the whole thing, is you now,
there again we ve talked about this before.
how do you jump into the mind,
of somebody, that's not having rash,
thoughts and then try to
The puzzle pieces together to make them fit right is very tough.
can't do it. You can't make sense of
What somebody's doing when in there
it makes sense to them in their head, but it would make sense to anybody else. I guess that's what I'm saying so
We talk a little bit give
about the the
aftermath of this case and there was
there was a lot that happen because of this case in and why
the big
it's quinces of barred
killing rebecca
four had to do
with what we talked about his methods
methods that were used to obtain shapers address right and
because of that, the
government passes the drivers, protect privacy, protection act, which
a bit some state departments of motor vehicles from
closing the home addresses of of their residents, which is an all fifty states. Now you know
Why? Why? Wouldn't I wouldn't they ve
that before you know why, because not never happened or if it
It happened. It wasn't a big enough deal too.
forced to change now,
was this was a huge, celebrity stir
fucking murder, the other
it did because we use the word stocking it cause
california in particular, to pass
anti stalking law and that was
ass the ninety ninety became effective.
Think january. One of
t ninety one,
law was the first of its kind. Now
lee
like you said, all the states with mere that wonderin. Well, they jump on it and carry through and
so canada
put in a national anti stocking law that
can a mirror that and say
time within a year of her passing
no los Angeles police department begin their threatened
unit to deal with
talking harassment, cases as well, which makes sense amidst when majority the you know, if you ve gotta, think
I was talking back. Then it was stars in us where the stars was. You know even now mean california's yeah. You know where most of the stars are yet they they instituted that threat management unit and,
The one thing that
found in resting about the law that law.
they passed the anti stalking law, it helped convict
this guy named Jonathan norman
Who was sentenced to twenty five years in prison for
attempting to carry out threats against director Steven Spielberg. Really
no, if that was the first instance or just the most famous instant
of the application of that law. Think there's been, there's been some some some pretty big stalking cases after
I am sure there have sense
Just so you know some
good. That came out of something so terrible. It is an end because of that you know because of the stocking aspect I did
Talk about that a little bit so I have
clip from an from an expert who who goes,
two, it does stocking a little bit and I thought I would
informative,
In my experience, a stalker is a person who sets his mind on pursuing a specific person. He wants to control that person. He once that person to be intimately involved with him. He will not take no as an answer. He is uncompromising in his zeal to enter into and maintain a relationship of this person, no matter what obstacles he encounters, he will ignore considerations of law. He will ignore the potential impact on the person he is pursuing. He is a law unto himself when it comes to this pursuit that stalking sought-
MIKE Davison was some good information about stocking and from
that guy was saying. I mean that fits bardo to a t, absolutely
He didn't give a rat's ass about any consequences.
No. You know he wrote in his diary that
he wasn't gonna lose period. We use,
do whatever it took
And I guess when somebody gets it in their head, like that?
When it becomes tough to stop somebody
because when once when, there's a person that wants to do something some harm to you,
and they have no fear of cost
winces near that
It's a dangerous dangerous and it's always dangerous. When some I to do harm to light. Is
when there, in that mental state, where the key
the don't matter
and there will into either go to jail or trade their life too.
To you, that's
scary, and I think,
that's where he was at. I just don't
He cared
what happened to him.
I served on life in prison. Is it
from prison so because we
want to talk about. You know it
talk about the victim, rebecca schaefer. By
I also found some other clips of some folks that had been victims of of stocking
not killed, but they just a little
bit of them sharing their. What they went through I found
very interesting.
they've worked with the police, but there's honestly not so much they can do. They can assign somebody to stay with me twenty four hours a day and that's basically what it would what it would entail this is. She has threatened to slash my throat, but usually it's not me that he threatens and he's threatened to kill my husband and he's threatened to kill girl friends of mine. Have any male friends especially make him hostile there? There was a dead animal left on our doorstep. We've gone through tires and tires tires and left nails the tires, and he uses a brass roofing nail. So we always know it's it's him. That's left the nail there lots of times, he'll just call and tell me he's seen me that day what I'm wearing and that I look nice wearing. I had a job where I needed to be on top of things and I couldn't be, and it took me a long time to even try to catch up with my work. I stayed by myself a lot I retreated. I just I just was very alone and that's the way I wanted it. My my friends would try and get me to come out. My mother tried to get me to stay with her. I stayed alone in the house and I I took the attitude that if, if he really wants to get me he's going to manage to do it, so there's no point in running and hiding anymore, I'm going to stay put my situation involved to an individual who picked me out of a crowd and developed, apparently some sort of love obsession and in the beginning, it actually initially started nine years ago or ten years ago now my contact with him was limited to phone calls. He had gotten my name and was calling my home and leaving messages for me and they were pretty benign. They were innocuous invitations to dinner and that sort of thing- and I didn't accept any of them. I never acknowledged the phone calls that were returned. The phone calls this went on for about three months and I also got a couple of notes. Love notes are sort of flattering little cards from him and I didn't think too much about it other than to be annoyed by the attention, because he was not a person. I wanted any kind of attention from
In other words, the stocking might start with a phone call which is a fairly remote type of contact, and then it might escalate to a later and then it might escalate to sending photograph, and then it might escalate to coming to the person's employment. Then, at last like to come into the person's home and then to a face to face, encounter and then ultimately to murder.
The opposite: every three different women can
the counting the eggs
and says that they ve had
with stalkers in and that's all it's pretty scary
I'm betting that there's one or two.
Of our listeners that, if not more
then, through some form of stocking experience, comes out of the sums on maybe more
stream than others
sorry, I'm definite? Sorry! If that happened to you, you have to go through that cause. That's
of time for sure
You can hear it bessie, the first that the third woman
sounded very strong. I think she was putting on a very strong bravado sure, but the
to you could really tell, and especially the second one. What
Toll something
that takes.
And I dont know if she said it, but the first woman that talk- I think it had been ten years goin on.
ten years on long time and to work on it?
hold that just takes on your life. It would take over
thing you heard from the second woman where you know she was
I believe the house it can
really haircut
we destroy your life re sickly in what can be done.
about it,
now nowadays, much more, but still, if they don't know who it is, are you can't prove its it's in a to prove
you can go to court in. You can get restraining orders and things like that, but you know even grown up. You know my baby sitter
had a year or sister
her ex boyfriend stopped her and eventually murdered her. So why? In
In a restraining, orders are one thing,
Restraining. Orders are for people that obey.
Rules
I guess I would say it's only. It's only peace, it's a piece of by piece of papers. You have some by the dozen obey rules and, like we talked about
is willing to die.
if are willing to do at all costs risk,
ever consequences even up to death
you know, a restraining order is not yet I dont say it's not worth it, but that's it.
Legal step. You happen to you, you have to take that step, but it can't stop everything so right eye
and to play some of these I found them. Can
heart wrenching, yeah
because we were talking about a case that
bob stocking.
the one
the good thing about this borrow case,
eyes to entice talking laws, and things like that is that there is low
hey back down the road for him.
If you read that, how do you know he's somebody?
imprisoned year, two thousand and seven in another and made its and therefore lie finally get a hold of woman in stabs him
eleven times course survives bud
It's a little low pay back. You know,
eleven times eleven times it survives that how do you survive living on that abs, stab wounds? Oh yeah, it's probably one of those homemade shanks or is it
I've always forget ones than one's a nasa shake
I can ship whatever right there, not long enough to do much damage shiv somebody with a shank, something like when you shank somebody with a shiv. I forget anybody out there. It's been a prison now right.
I don't know what it's called yeah, but yet
So we can laugh about this part because two and
made weapon made. Weapons were founded, scene,
he was treated like you said, survived his return to prison, the other the
aspect. Was them serve
eighty two years to life for sex
degree: murder which sets
That's a pretty serious sentence for second degree. Eighty two to life
but I mean currently as of as of right now he still serving life since cracked. He is
at the arnwood state, prison, unblithe, California, unless some cow for taxpayers
taking care of yeah unless something has changed, but them.
I give you got anything else on the on this,
ah and murder of even over such a long time ago. She took on a depressing man to think about. Some
while young beautiful purchase bianco, I think you mercians life being taken. I think what you think about is in.
No kind of goes back to the m, the can't to cakes
right, you think about some. May that's that's an she. She was even younger, but what would
Person have accomplished,
now rebecca schaefer was poised to do
She probably one of the biggest stars. You cut it. I've been. You know
yeah, we're not gonna robin whenever now and always had that feeling when we were doing the the
so Huckabee case him with the murder Saint Sandra. Can't
because just
the back of my mind. I always think you what would
this person be doing they were. She beat it today.
Had somebody not done you know, taken their life or so so
guess will sign off yeah yeah.
MIKE Ferguson, gibbey, that's gibbey!
stay safe and keep your own time taking
the.
Transcript generated on 2023-04-09.