Hello, everyone and welcome to lapse of eleven to crime. All the time me mash digital production, I'm your host Like ferguson and always, I've got my partner crime and co host MIKE be gibson in studio with me, giving

It's going on today, good morning afternoon evening, depending on when you're listening or when we're taping or when we're tape- and you never know now- most of you are familiar with Jeffrey dump. We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted individual mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer, on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle war takes us through the story, starting with Dahmer, his childhood and the first murder all the way through his death. The podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives, journalists and others close to the case to explore exactly what happened and how- His killer came to be so. This sounds like a very deep dark and for me, anytime, you get never before heard audio from people very close to the case. Ahmet, listen to mind of a monster on apple podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. So before we can begin today's show just a few announcements

that everyone enjoyed our first step town listener, hometown episode that was released dumb, midweek we'd like to Jordan very much for participating in this first one. Of what we hope will be many listener, hometown episodes. Folks, If you haven't downloaded this when yet, please do it was a great experience to have Jordan who, actually lives in the town where this crime occurred and was able to fill in all those little details that give me yeah you and I sometimes get critics not criticise, but poked fun. Sometimes we we dont, know some of the m local local establishments or write things like that. But I don't know what would you think gee you enjoyed it? Oh yeah yeah. Extra knowledge base. You know guy melodic spiral of difference. Yeah yeah, I like jordan,

yeah. We like jordan, but we're really hoping that you know this catches on and we a few other people lined up and down you. wanna. Do it at least once a month, but hopefully we People hear this. They say oh man, I I want to do that. I got a case that if you got a good case and you got skype on your phone yeah- that's all you need. We can skype you in and do it just to just email us at Well, you know how to emails here they find your butt you're as always find all the social media, info for our show at our website. crime, all the time dot com. You will find our email address there we love the interaction and keeps increasing on facebook and twitter instagram Gideon. I both love. It so keep keep it up.

Definitely visitor pedro page. If you want to help support the show financially and speaking of support three new recent financial supporters to the show I want to give a huge shout out to April and rebecca they play stir their support on patria, on and we also had our first monthly supporter through pay pal, which I didn't even know was possible. if that was jeanette. So thank you very much jeanette for your support. Wow. Thank you, yeah, all three of you. You really have no idea how much it means that financial support goes a long way towards helping pay for the production costs and in the media hosting and all of that- and you like, we tell everybody all the time you can patriarch. You can show your support for the show for as little two dollars a month so gibbey. When this episode drops

it's gonna, be a pretty big day for us. You know were obvious. They recording this in advance, because at the same time that we did episode releases. on sunday. Were also releasing our first episode of the new podcast, true crime, all the time unsolved right, so that a big announced we have. We think people are really gonna like it. this can be the same format as the show you listening to right now, the only difference. Is that cases are unsolved right and you And I were talking the other day in You know we ve been getting a lot of feedback people that are saying hey can, can you do more shows and we thought rather than doing more, shows on a regular show. We would start a separate

another podcast, basically the same name with unsolved, the added to it, and that way we're separating because I do know there are people that will love both of em. But there are also people that light. when a case is solved in all the facts are known, and there are some people that really like that story of an unsolved cakes and some people that drives me crazy. When it's unsolved right, I don't listening to unsolved but you're like this, but and but I think that's one of the reasons why we want a separate it here. You can. You can pick whose, but awfully you subscribe to both listen to both now have you know, other podcast to help you with your commute to from around the house or at work. And you know you can't sleep at night. Taken on listen to it, you know my voice all put your right to sleep or that were there Now, if you haven't already

please look for it in the itunes beyond your itunes, if you, if you use an iphone or on for your android subscribed to the show that way, you may make sure you get all the fields that are coming out. If your life, when you listening to the show just know that there is an episode of true crime, all the time and saw that is scully being released at the exact same time. Right so between Two in the added listener, participation, one that we do yeah. That should get you through your weak. I should get you three your week. Actually I saw gimme. Let's talk about this case. Involves the talking and murder of actress, rebecca Schaefer right is probably from them. First well known stalker case yeah and I don't know what the demographic actually a variety answers folk

that are our age, gonna. Remember this for sure Some of the younger. Listeners, may not remember this because they They may not even have been born. Yet this takes place in. Canadian, I'm eighteen, eighty, nine so, but let let's get into it. First of all, we have to start talk. We have talked about rebecca right. He knows Rebecca Schaefer was born in eugene organ On november six nineteen sixty seven she was only child to Dana and doktor benson schaefer. Who apparently was a child psychologist right she was raised in the portland area. Began modeling, during her junior year of high school you wanted to be a rabbi early on. She did what yeah I did read that decided some

he stumbled and some modelling and it went well in the air that out, because I didn't get the facts of why she won. to be a rabbi and then all of a sudden jumped modeling. It's good that you bring it up, but I just didn't have a thing, sir love her. That really know the religion. Does she was yeah so so then she went on and did some local modeling, that she got good responses on that. So, Yeah, look more like department store catalogues, I think even some local television commercials right so that egg, no ahead. Muttered a letter moved to new york city on our own. Around eighty four, I think here is what I had. Then she does some modeling my she's they're, not its success at it, because the fact that I she was coast. She was just too short right. She was in the modeling industry. I don't know how it work, yeah, what you know it's it's crazy because

when I read where she was five, seven, which I would think some of that at least average, if not above average, for of female yeah. I would think so gabby at least air I think that's probably average. in the world of high fashion, that's It's considered to be very short sure. That's what I read and you know she even move to japan in and eighty five To try to get some other men willing gigs in an even they told her. She was too short right but you know I've never understood the world of high fashion. Anyway, I don't know who in the world buys all that stuff. I see, people like on tv walking down the runway in some of the sum of the ugliest dresses I've ever seen. You know I think, the way standard as it sets their concept design and in the big story Selina may sees the

Bloomingdale's the deadline set maybe it's because where we live, but I dont see people walking around in any of that stuff. I think they distort take that concept and than they have been the designers tweet, to be more mainstream, I'm sure somewhere. Somebody where's that stuff, but not now not hearing dayton now people with a lot more money than than if you're after wearing this stuff from high and fashioned show shoot a message headaches. So we know there is actually people wearing that stuff exactly, I did want to say the mining wasn't going well, like you mentioned but she did land a roll on soap opera, one like to live yet when she was in new york. She goes back me york. She gets that. that gig there and kind of leads on to a few other gigs yeah. I I don't. I never watch soaps, but one life to live was probably really popular, probably an hour.

I dunno. I think a lot of them have died off. Don't have that. I'm not sure I never was a soap person, but she her character was caught any barnes and I'm sure there's some people. That will probably remember that right if they were usually a future if you're big on in the soap opera it that some that you watched you, you remember a lot of those characters, but I her big break comes and eighty six and its then that she lands the cover of seventeen magazine right and that's big deal. That was a huge deal back back then Seventy magazine made it made a lot of people famous lot of models, took him to another level. But it's definitely at another level because, as I believe it every producer catches that yeah and likes the way she looks right it. It puts her on the radar of these, like he said a television producer and

they are in the process of casting a new show called my sister, sam and rebecca. You gets the part right. you know she wins the part of paddy and she ends up playing opposite of pam dawber work and mending fame. Oh yeah, who is sam? and don't know your member, the show, I actually don't remember the show it was short lived and was like on a year and a half yeah we'll talk about it, but it was short lived. Dont, remember watching it specifically, but good. This part leads her from aids to her moving from new york to california right, which is going to You have set up some of the story, but I did a little clip of my sister SAM just in case any by remembers it

I'd probably russell. This is my sister sam. I just moved in. We haven't lived together since we were kids. I was raised by her aunt and uncle things sure have changed. I used to dress her. I can't wait to wear it. Just makes up the haircut you gave me when I was three the if anything that I think the soundtrack may be sounds a little more familiar to me. Then the show it As you know, we hear this He's did put her in the spotlight because It was an actual set com on a major network, yet actually took off fairly in the beginning: it did. It was getting really good ratings, what they procedure and for some reason the second season and at a lot of people, talk about the sophomore slump right which

as happened with some shows fizzled out, and it did fizzle out in the the second season and it was cancelled rebecca would go on to appear in some other films over the next. few years. Nothing that the I really new over or remembered no nothing big right now. If I saw it. I might be oh yeah, I remember that yeah right, but by name and re mission right, these were not big movies and some are even made tv movies. I think that she did, but she was up and calmer right. and she I mean to the point that you know new york here and will bear that she was getting right to audition fur for a huge film, yet the godfather part, three godfather part three to be part of that would it would have been, which was not was now

godfather one in two no, but it still have. But it was a big picture. It had to be in the same movie would in a petition owen, damn that would that would have been huge yeah. I you know. I. if, for those of you, that no godfathers godfather time, favorite. One in two. I could sit and watch all day three I'll watch it so hard. But it's not me

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two: five hundred five hundred: that's audible, dot com, slash de cat or text tcp tee to five hundred five hundred. So I think we're getting at is lacking. she's, an up and calmer you at this point. She she still only. twenty very, very early twenty, their right and very attractive. She is a very attractive girl, still modeling. She was just on a sit com. What This caused her to have a lot of fans, I'm sure all over the world, and here that's That's what happens when you become a celebrity in especially You know if you are a very attractive person, and on top of that you're a celebrity you ten, to attract a lot of fans and she was a sweetheart. From all from all accounts, she she really was

the problem is: she had won in one fan in particular named robert John Bardo, who take his obsession with rebecca to the extreme right That's that's what this case is really all about, so I thought we talk a little bit about Robert Bardo just a little bit about his background he was the youngest of seven children. His mother was korean and Father was an officer in the united states air force, so the We moved a lot. You know my! I have some family that better air force a that's in and they moved a lot, so they travelled line and not use that as a derogatory term. But right you know they they, moved a lot and saw the world and it seems like he may make

move quite a bit to be military, said kids and we will that milk military pay, especially back then Wouldn't have been that great, so Seven kids, I'm sure that- and you know that talk about how he was gonna beat up by some of his assembling. So I'm sure there was a lot of hiding in between the siblings right. So I mean they eventually settling tucson arizona and in like eighteenth nineteen, eighty, three, and you mentioned him. You know it. by all accounts he had a troubled childhood sure that should be surprise to no one, because I dont think as a case. Yet where we haven't had to say right now, there was one now now they're, probably never will be won because a troubled childhood goes a long way towards some of these individuals do and what they do

but you mentioned him, your kind of being beaten up, I brothers and sisters you actually add that he was abused by bye one or more of his siblings, and then he got to the point where he had to be and foster care which gotta be pretty extra, to put one of your own In nineteen eighty three yeah and put one year old, kids in foster care yeah, so either I mean to the point that he he was just too much to handle yeah and I guess he had threatened to commit suicide yeah and so that kind of all boiled over in and lead into him being putting foster, and it was only was round. Fifteen yeah, I'm not not sure what age it was when I did have gibbey was, according to one of his teachers, they bardo, was a time bomb on the verge of exploding. And now apparently, when he was Protein and

This may have been even before summer. Their stuff. We are talking about here, robust domain in search of samantha Psmith. This was kind of a a big deal Samantha smith was, it, was a child herself she'd, be famous for sending a letter to mikhail gorbachev, She had gained a lot of notoriety issues like a peace activists back yet to already he's get. Tourism stocking bright and the authorities finding they bringing back to two tucson. and you didn't dichotomy here is, that is teachers all said. He was a good student, I think he was somewhat intelligent right, but he had a habit of writing his teachers threatening letters. and as I think,

he mentioned. He was hospitalized a couple times right because of When I read is so fear, emotional damage right, but again When you come from that childhood sure, you're siblings are abusing you, you threatened. Commit suicide. You know that he didn't. he didn't, have a great need: sure part of the equation right then we'll have a strong supporting system there in homer doesn't sound like so The point even drops school right yea drops out of high school. Ninth grade doesn't even make it pass them Grade, even though, by all accounts, he was a I good student. I dont know how smarty is or what is I q was better in them. So what's he began doing start? working as a janitor, jack jack in the box.

I know that in turn in that time, you know that eventually get sir rested a few times right. You gets arrested for domestic violence, disorderly conduct, In a social life, shocker mean we can see this again and again in some other killers, you talked about that they have you no criminal, you know a pass them Yeah, I even hybrid that some of his neighbors said that he exhibited unexplored and strange and threatening behaviour towards them. That's when they really don't wanna have Yeah psych, psychotic neighbour, so where we are, he's sixteen years old, give or take working as gender jack in the box. This is the I believe fall of nineteen eighties nineteen. Eighty six. Becomes

fan of the television show my sister SAM important pillar. He becomes obsessed with the character paddy, which we already said is played by rebecca Schaefer right. to the point where what I had the research I had done said he. He built a shrine to her in his bedroom. I don't know what what that involved. But I'm picturing that my head of nothing but pictures posters and come scary, Yeah, I mean that's, that's full on its git, Into full obsession now think back when I was a kid I had one up, couple of posters, Michael Jordan, fair fawcett, ball, firefox it Charlie's angels three, the Sahel warrior, but you know yeah, but wasn't obsessed right. So I

When I think of those work shrines either radical A posters of folks I, I don't wanna velvet cause. I was, can end Elvis better. Yet, You wouldn't call that a shrine. No, I mean this thing, you're on your dad would keep morrison. Although pictures and that's a shrine. This sum is stuff that he's a touched. The somehow you got hold of a vessel probably what, if you're, listen? That's not true at all, be working so well. you know, look let's talk about, you got the shrine, but again you know them rebecca is getting tons fan mail, tons of letters, A lot of the letters that she's getting our from Bardo. becomes obsessed right Writing all these letters to her You had made mention that she was a great person.

And one of the things that she does is like you, and I talk about we try to respond to everything that we get now we don't get. Near as much as what actual celebrities kid we get people on social media that email us. You know when I have a dialogue right. but what she does she response. One of his letters and in writing back. saying that His letter was the most beautiful that she had ever received. And on her letter she draws a p sign heart and she signs it with love from rebecca right there is the problem, and what does that do to somebody? That's obsessed right. Just. Solidifies day they feel You feel the same way they feel about you rat. He is you know in

in a warped persons, mind he's telling him that she loves him. Now you- and I would get that in just think. that's just some trying to be not right course. Because when you celebrity does not love me, but to him and in the way that his mind is working at that point in time he thinks it's swell. She loves me right that very day the that he receives that here it's in his Journal that he will to become famous to impress her dough gibbey you're in june of eighty seven. This when. bardo tries to go to to burbank studios and my understanding is that you, like you, mentioned here, a couple times, because the warner brothers.

Which is in burma. The burbank studios warner brothers lot, which is where my my sister standards being take an he I took it in fact security guard to see rebecca and the first time the security guard, Turned him away: no dice, no dice, not letting parent liese carrying a five foot teddy bear and a bouquet of roses that doesn't stalker on and I dont know what does but ok fight five foot taber a good sized study. That is a good sized, but there again Nothing to dangerous right then, and there right, but this in time when he comes back a month later, he s got a knife, but again and they don't let him in there doing their job. got no reason to beyond the lot. So yes, so he you know he's at a lost cause, I can't get an answer doesn't know how to get to her. So I think

is discouraged Does an apparently yeah he returns the tucson after going to get to get into the studio, and he writes in his diary- and I I one. I stress this because he says dont lose period with period. The word period spelt out. What's that mean you are alarming: he's gonna do whatever it takes right, he's gonna make sure he gets under these, not taking no for an answer. Now. What The ultimate goal is idle, we don't know at this point, but whatever it is, he sang I'm not hey, I'm not gonna, lose do whatever it takes now something happens: he's back and to tucson, and this is that upsets him.

Upsets bardo. He sees rebecca schaefer in a movie. and the movie is called the class struggle in beverly hills and this movie It has a sexy nora. You know, canada, a bed, seen with a male actor. And that really upsets bardo. You again in his mind, separating the fact that he seeing so thing on, ripped it on screen. I think his mind, is working correctly at this point in time, because he's enraged by the fact that she, kissing or making out with this guy in a movie scene. Currently this is what's starts to set him off because he

size than in there that Becker has to be punished for Her immorality ass, he called it even going to the point of you take it diagram, drawing a diagram of her body, and working all the different spots where he planned to shoot her. It's at this point that he asked says older brother edgar to buy him again so. He goes to says some justice. following this, so he goes to the studio twice Can't get in gets frustrated goes back home. then he cannot stocks Debbie give senator For for a short period of time, that doesn't turn out to be anything so now he sees this movie she's in rebecca.

lane and bad. Next to a guy. He gets furious thing. isn't an gonna, be another hollywood whore. And so now he's asking his brother the go, get em again yeah yeah and then this is worth it strange for me because. Normally, you would think we. You have an obsession with one person he had. and I think he had an obsession with, Or tried to have an obsession with a bunch of different people. For what reason I dont know what was what was the end? Ultimately, I think he just wanted to be famous yeah. I think so too there. There is some some evidence and, and some people talking on others, search that I did. That said that all Lee. He wanted to be famous because why why the stocking more

more people figuring out. this person can't be you know him gotten into and then going on to the nearest some of the actions that here ex some of the he carry some of the things that he does move inform cannon make you It really makes you think, that's what he wants. You want to be famous. Ah you talk about catcher in there. I hear yet, let's talk about it because ultimately he ends up and with The catcher in the rye book, when the thing goes down, It's all said and done we're going to talk about here miniature. That just Harkin's back to chapman hinkley- and for whatever reason catcher in the rye is will I will say, related inner.

turning your twined with a lot of these to those that are there, trying to relate to that the the character holden. Is that what it is I mean, obviously the the character is I mean you got three copies on your desk. There I mean I do have a copy on the bookshelf. Yeah I know. characters, disillusioned and you know so I think It's easy for some of these folks to relate to that character. But it is something that a lot of them have this book in their possession at the time they do what they want. They do right Before we get to that, you know Bardo is just sitting tons of letter still to rebecca likely talked about he's got a shrine is room. He even sent the really. and a crazy letter to his sister who in tennessee it said that if he couldn't have rebecca nobody good.

That's a warning. If I've ever heard exactly of one and it's really so at this point hops, a bus in tucson and he's heading four hollywood and he's gonna down rebecca. And so we're gonna work. sporting can up to July, seventeenth of nineteen. Eighty nine. Bordeaux is in Now in california, trying to fight Rebecca Schaefer he's a call agents office he's he's trying to find out where she lives. I think he even went as far as To people on the street showing the show pitch her picture here and saying: hey: do you know where this person lives? It ends up that. He pays a private detective torrent fifty dollars to help find her

like wait. Why did you do that? I know you got some information on that. Well, I mean he found out Somehow he found out that the attacker Teresa cell baino, my saint last name right, so llanos algeria, pisa. Yes, so her attacker, you know he pay, a private detective Find out where she lived in west hollywood and he was a to obtain that information for her attack. and to barter copy copied, but the same thing off at once. There is detective to forty bucks. What another attack, or did that crazy part about it, though, Neither one of them knew is there, in nineteen. Eighty nine. You could just Walk into the caliph the in office dollar phil a form

with a little bit of information. You can even lie on the form about what you want it for right and you could get somebody's address s crazy. Now we're gonna talk when we about aftermath like we always do right what changes about as a result of that case, you know, it's one of em, but so there each of these people paid the detective to turn her fifty the detective. Probably just went down and pay the dollar kept two to forty nine

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So he gets or information. So it's got her address, that's what he was, after, which as to the morning of July eighteen eighteen. Eighty nine. bardo he's wearing a yellow shirt here. ouch rebecca, is building an rings, the doorbell rebecca at that time. I think lived in unit. For you like me, to About he's carrying a copy of the catcher awry. Ruby it opens the door and she talks time very politely, as said, with some, we think she was a very nice person but she does say to him. You know I'm right, busy. You, ve gotta leave, and this goes back, two godfather three, because everything I read was she she's up for this role and she was weight

for the script to be delivered, spoke, be left on her front door act think it's one of the reasons why she had No problem going the door because she kept thinking which the script script when the door bell rang because run or thin. Thirdly, buzzard worked better come worked as a buzzer, but he couldn't communicate through dinner com. It was broken this idea just the boss, so she just knew somebody was at the door for her unit right. So every time it rang she came because she kept thinking of the script so Piss Bardo off even though she was polite she's a celebrity. She said you know, I can't really talked you right now. I'm busy here walks away steamed. And thinking that she was rude to him, even though she probably wasn't So what's he do it? to genes strong nearby restaurant He ordering waters.

Among in rings and slice cheesecake J, I found varies strange combo. just on your rings, no hamburger. No, no! meat, just hanging rings and cheesecake the about like you- we talked about in the beginning snakes and eighty nine. I just don't think celebrities were taken. The same kind of precautions they were now. I mean even even somebody on a brand new television show would not. come answer the door. If you writing their doyle. I dont believe not today would not not in today's world, but back then you get. think we didn't have, the same amount of paparazzi. We didn't have the internet. All of these social media outlets that we do today and bay, sickly, what that has done, and in today's world it left This feel or let some

or feel that their their basis we very very close to the their favorite celebrities. I think you mentioned early on, he had to do a lot of work to feed. Like Hell, you know sending letters I mean who sends a letter wins It's time, you actually wrote a letter put stamp on it and mailed it not counting bills which china and and, and nowadays most people must be that do that use stamford stamp yeah three year he pay did in a pay. Everything digital online, so he's our genes restaurant eating his, weird order of onion rings and cheesecake and. when he gets done with that, he goes back to rebecca, is building about an hour later thirty it's an hour. I read differing accounts bright. He rang the bell this time sheep. She comes down again again.

like we said she probably is thinking that it's this script forgot The three she he's in her house coat. Opens the door and this time I think she I dont know how anybody knows exact what she said other than him in a must, The information coming from him or or peoples is he yeah. She does by all accounts- and it's probably his account say something like now she's a little more agitated. She says: you're wasting my time. Please leave me alone, I'm busy something to that effect. bardo respond I pulling a three fifty seven out any shoots her. Something like I forget to give you this year. and I think he headed in a bag her on the way I didn't, but so at this point you know he shoots her and point point

can a chess right yeah me he's close, I a thrifty, seven that would do. Major damage. Yes, the three fifty seven, depending on what kind of bullet it is a sizeable round some neighbors hear the gunshots? Apparently there were a couple of gunshots. I don't know how many times he shot her. Some reports said to and some really loud screams there, rush to shavers a door. They find her body clad in a black robe and at this point She's twitching and the four year so she's tightened She still alive. even though, when this neighbour checks are pulse, he doesn't find anything. So not. You know that just nervous

yeah, another system still twitching or something the paramedics say that when they get their versus light pulse, that's why they pronounced the hospital. But you know you got Richard goldman across the street, he runs over What's the neighbor you're talking about it is an ace, I'm sure he may not have been a doctor. So who knows how he's checking for Paul right but you're right? He hears the you know, he's alerted by the shot and that in the in the two loud screams and of course he sees what probably, is bardo, runnin, away, yell, sure, yellow giant kiki here many of the other neighbour well, listen billy in the next door. He also heard the shot and screams and ran to help, but again, tommy there was little. He could do exist,

but but you're right, because they do rush her to cedars sinai here, and it does say that she for about thirty men, very saint, Paul, sitter work on her, but ultimately you know pronounce her den I think when you get the people on the scene, actually thinking that she was dead, you know but but not pronounced dead. You know it's kind of so at this point, barton, takes off again. I don't know if you have this, because I don't have this information might, but he ends up in in tucson the next day I dunno. If he takes the bus back I actually didn't see it. I don't know how he got there, but he he gets back to tucson yeah, I'm sure he probably took a bus or or something he could even hitchhiked people are still hitchhiking. Maybe back then, but that's a long way to hitchhike from California to tucson

but things start to get crazy with him. We have several motorists, Call nine one one and reporting that a man is running around and traffic on it. they ten report. Is that he's trying purpose we too to get hit? right, not trying to dodge cars on the highway he's trying to get some might run him over on the highway. Please there, the taken into custody and he confesses to the murder immediately from from all accounts stated waste any brownie think they knew he was at that point, but I mean they do faxes susie confesses they facts. All this information. to los angeles and witnesses are able to confirm. Yet this is the man that that we all round the neighbourhood and that that we saw running they d, the

listen tucson arizona, obviously couldn't have known or even asked him if he was the man that shot rebecca, safer, they wouldn't even them now. So for whatever reason he did what he wanted to do, what he felt he needed to do and. he was goin back shit, crazy, runnin around the highway. He obviously one to get caught, were killed in the many he's caught. He he confessed to them. So I got a little tape from from Bardo here it is pretty powerful stuff,

I didn't have an identity of what I wanted to do in life, and I was always looking for my greatest source of happiness and it always would be that public failure, that's what happened with michelle says, never met the guy. There seen the guy, but they want him sleepy want to have a personal relationship with him, commercial advertising or show and her personality. She was very open with her personality and she's still a stranger, and I I interested in he interests me in the show. I bet I'd, be the magazine. Articles person I haven't read those magazine articles feel like I know the way they talk about themselves through family lines, both the positive movement and took point to become famous. You feel, like you know these people, it's not like they're strangers, because you see them on tv or see them at the movies people feeling like they've, been with you all your life, because you're always hearing about them- and it's like you always hear about when you know they have a relationship with another person or whatever happens in their life. It's like you're, along for the ride their life. To me, my victim wasn't a stranger because, like me, not so much a magazine articles, I saw the person on the tv all the time I felt like the person was accessible, all right so

yeah. That was that bardo years later,. Talking about giving a little bit of insight about. You know his action and how he felt in in- and things like, There was actually one other audio clip that I really wanted to include gibbey, and I know you liked it by eta- it's so hard to hear it. I don't even think people could have heard it, so I thought maybe you could just out of that kind. I have a re account of it in our borrow. You know when he's describing the his the owner He's ascribing incident himself right. He saying she had this kid voice. Sound like a little brad or something I said, I was wasting your time wasting your time, no matter what I thought that was very cows thing for her to say to her fan. You know I grabbed the door gun stone the bag grabbed by the trigger.

a come around in a pal and she's like screamin scream, and why and it's like, oh god, so this is what you know: the tape that he's on saying that the hear from him a worthy it would be better. It's just. I could not find a good enough. copy that I think people could have even understood it. If you really want to hear it, you can go out on the internet and find it and try to decipher what he says and there might be some that subtitle it yeah it's just, but just to see his face and his expression as he saying it, because the the differences, the one that we played happen that was years later, that's older, right, bardot and the one that you're talking about is from a much much sooner right. After he's right, this is how it is being reviewed by the third. I guess the state psychologist or the county psychologist to determine. If he's a ease extradited to California,

from arizona his Defence attorneys were pleading that he had an unstable mental condition. Dude, childhood abuse. I don't know That's true, but he definitely was unstable and some capacity, The issue always becomes, did he know right from wrong? The very interesting thing about this one is that- the prosecutor in this case was a young marcia clark who later, obviously, everybody knows become famous her work during the o J simpson trial and I got some great audio of her that I want to play. I get completely

albin completely committed? In all my cases, there was an emotional aspect to this case because of because of the nature of the victim. This was just such a sweet, innocent, vulnerable victim who did nothing but spread joy and light to everyone around her and to have that life. Snatched away so brutally is a is an incredibly horrible and depressing experience. The first time he went to her door. Ah, he expected to speak through. The intercom did not expect to see her and unbeknownst to him. Her intercom didn't work. She came directly down the hallway and open the door and startled him. He was on prepared for her personal appearance and when she came out straight to the door, he couldn't respond in time. She took control of the situation and he was intimidated.

It wasn't a very intimate contact that he engaged in in order to commit the murder he went up to her face to face he strode up to where she stood as she opened the door she was leaning over. He grabbed her by the arm to hold her still to immobilize her to make sure that he would succeed in hitting the target, and then he raised this very large gun firing. It hearing the loud report of a three fifty seven magnum that site. That sounds like a cannon, especially in the acoustical conditions. He fired it in directly into her heart and he saw the spurt the artery, the arterial spurt of blood as her heart literally exploded in her chest,

bartos motivation in killing Rebecca Schaeffer was the quest for fame. He wanted to be famous, he knew of no skill he had or town he had. That would make him shine, and so he chose the easy way to the top. If you will, and the one way he knew of to get fame was to kill someone famous and attach himself in a parasite like fashion to the fame that that person had. I feel like setting up a hit on diane cannon at her hollywood hills home. This is all fantasy, of course, but so was my love for rebecca and she's dead. He considered Madonna rejected, considered tiffany even went to her concert but wrote about how he noticed the heavy security and rejected it. Debbie Gibson was another one that he tracked all the way to new york found her to be inaccessible, rejected. Her then came rebecca Schaeffer. I know where she lives. I can get to her.

I don't know why, but it sounds so much better when marcia talks about it. Here number one she's a hell of a lot smarter than we are but Madonna was one. That was one that I did not see. Yeah we didn't talk about and dyan cannon right now madonna was star. Yes, I mean it was Well, I guess eighty nine and late eighties. Yes, she was getting very, very big yeah. It was the climbing up very fast, but I think it does corroborate what you and we're talking about which is you know, he fixated on rebecca schaefer by. Yeah he was, he would try to fix aid on other people out there who, like anybody, he thought that he can get access to who's going to I'm, Just think about how those people feel how lucky they have tiffany Debbie Gibson right. You know

because by all accounts it could happen that it could have been them. like to hear marcia talk here. She sit together in a way that uses. Furthermore, let us, but of course frozen involved and not in in all of it. So right she's got a lot of the details, so I think we know the trial was. as you would imagine, the trial would go here, he's convicted capital murder he Did for a non jury trial in change for. I believe them taking off the death penalty incorrect. So what you had my yeah so no jury. They They argue both sides argued in front of the judge and he stone face through the whole thing yeah, except except for when they play was that you too saw song, they call an exit and he is he's jam in it you mean you watching him and he's in

he's in that chair and he's- I mean he's he's you know- saying the lyrics in as I carry oki nigh yeah had a bad irene. He knew he was as you all sudden when that music came on, that they played as like some took over in his body, and you can just see him iraq and back and forth with it saying the lyrics. And it was very strange- it was definitely definitely strain we don't. I don't have that in audio, but you can definitely find that on the big part of the song that the hears it talks about, you know hand in the pocket finger on the steel, the await heavy his heart, he could feel was bearing beating Beating my love and that's what they can relate backed why he liked it. So he's ultimately sentenced to life. pearl on number twentieth, nineteen, ninety one Bardo yoke I had some some words for the judge that were

you quote the idea I killed her for fame is totally ridiculous I do realise the magnitude of what I ve done. I dont think it needs to become pounded while a bunch of lies because she's an actress what you make that yeah he's basically saying that I do kill her for fame. So. What is that? Why did he kill her? Because is obsessed with her and he was mad, that she was in love, see I just By the whole thing, is you now, there again we ve talked about this before. how do you jump into the mind, of somebody, that's not having rash, thoughts and then try to The puzzle pieces together to make them fit right is very tough. can't do it. You can't make sense of What somebody's doing when in there

it makes sense to them in their head, but it would make sense to anybody else. I guess that's what I'm saying so We talk a little bit give about the the aftermath of this case and there was there was a lot that happen because of this case in and why the big it's quinces of barred killing rebecca four had to do with what we talked about his methods methods that were used to obtain shapers address right and because of that, the government passes the drivers, protect privacy, protection act, which a bit some state departments of motor vehicles from closing the home addresses of of their residents, which is an all fifty states. Now you know Why? Why? Wouldn't I wouldn't they ve

that before you know why, because not never happened or if it It happened. It wasn't a big enough deal too. forced to change now, was this was a huge, celebrity stir fucking murder, the other it did because we use the word stocking it cause california in particular, to pass anti stalking law and that was ass the ninety ninety became effective. Think january. One of t ninety one, law was the first of its kind. Now lee like you said, all the states with mere that wonderin. Well, they jump on it and carry through and so canada put in a national anti stocking law that can a mirror that and say time within a year of her passing no los Angeles police department begin their threatened

unit to deal with talking harassment, cases as well, which makes sense amidst when majority the you know, if you ve gotta, think I was talking back. Then it was stars in us where the stars was. You know even now mean california's yeah. You know where most of the stars are yet they they instituted that threat management unit and, The one thing that found in resting about the law that law. they passed the anti stalking law, it helped convict this guy named Jonathan norman Who was sentenced to twenty five years in prison for attempting to carry out threats against director Steven Spielberg. Really no, if that was the first instance or just the most famous instant of the application of that law. Think there's been, there's been some some some pretty big stalking cases after I am sure there have sense Just so you know some

good. That came out of something so terrible. It is an end because of that you know because of the stocking aspect I did Talk about that a little bit so I have clip from an from an expert who who goes, two, it does stocking a little bit and I thought I would informative,

In my experience, a stalker is a person who sets his mind on pursuing a specific person. He wants to control that person. He once that person to be intimately involved with him. He will not take no as an answer. He is uncompromising in his zeal to enter into and maintain a relationship of this person, no matter what obstacles he encounters, he will ignore considerations of law. He will ignore the potential impact on the person he is pursuing. He is a law unto himself when it comes to this pursuit that stalking sought- MIKE Davison was some good information about stocking and from that guy was saying. I mean that fits bardo to a t, absolutely

He didn't give a rat's ass about any consequences. No. You know he wrote in his diary that he wasn't gonna lose period. We use, do whatever it took And I guess when somebody gets it in their head, like that? When it becomes tough to stop somebody because when once when, there's a person that wants to do something some harm to you, and they have no fear of cost winces near that It's a dangerous dangerous and it's always dangerous. When some I to do harm to light. Is when there, in that mental state, where the key the don't matter and there will into either go to jail or trade their life too. To you, that's scary, and I think, that's where he was at. I just don't He cared

what happened to him. I served on life in prison. Is it from prison so because we want to talk about. You know it talk about the victim, rebecca schaefer. By I also found some other clips of some folks that had been victims of of stocking not killed, but they just a little bit of them sharing their. What they went through I found very interesting.

they've worked with the police, but there's honestly not so much they can do. They can assign somebody to stay with me twenty four hours a day and that's basically what it would what it would entail this is. She has threatened to slash my throat, but usually it's not me that he threatens and he's threatened to kill my husband and he's threatened to kill girl friends of mine. Have any male friends especially make him hostile there? There was a dead animal left on our doorstep. We've gone through tires and tires tires and left nails the tires, and he uses a brass roofing nail. So we always know it's it's him. That's left the nail there lots of times, he'll just call and tell me he's seen me that day what I'm wearing and that I look nice wearing. I had a job where I needed to be on top of things and I couldn't be, and it took me a long time to even try to catch up with my work. I stayed by myself a lot I retreated. I just I just was very alone and that's the way I wanted it. My my friends would try and get me to come out. My mother tried to get me to stay with her. I stayed alone in the house and I I took the attitude that if, if he really wants to get me he's going to manage to do it, so there's no point in running and hiding anymore, I'm going to stay put my situation involved to an individual who picked me out of a crowd and developed, apparently some sort of love obsession and in the beginning, it actually initially started nine years ago or ten years ago now my contact with him was limited to phone calls. He had gotten my name and was calling my home and leaving messages for me and they were pretty benign. They were innocuous invitations to dinner and that sort of thing- and I didn't accept any of them. I never acknowledged the phone calls that were returned. The phone calls this went on for about three months and I also got a couple of notes. Love notes are sort of flattering little cards from him and I didn't think too much about it other than to be annoyed by the attention, because he was not a person. I wanted any kind of attention from

In other words, the stocking might start with a phone call which is a fairly remote type of contact, and then it might escalate to a later and then it might escalate to sending photograph, and then it might escalate to coming to the person's employment. Then, at last like to come into the person's home and then to a face to face, encounter and then ultimately to murder. The opposite: every three different women can the counting the eggs and says that they ve had with stalkers in and that's all it's pretty scary I'm betting that there's one or two. Of our listeners that, if not more then, through some form of stocking experience, comes out of the sums on maybe more stream than others sorry, I'm definite? Sorry! If that happened to you, you have to go through that cause. That's of time for sure

You can hear it bessie, the first that the third woman sounded very strong. I think she was putting on a very strong bravado sure, but the to you could really tell, and especially the second one. What Toll something that takes. And I dont know if she said it, but the first woman that talk- I think it had been ten years goin on. ten years on long time and to work on it? hold that just takes on your life. It would take over thing you heard from the second woman where you know she was I believe the house it can really haircut we destroy your life re sickly in what can be done. about it, now nowadays, much more, but still, if they don't know who it is, are you can't prove its it's in a to prove

you can go to court in. You can get restraining orders and things like that, but you know even grown up. You know my baby sitter had a year or sister her ex boyfriend stopped her and eventually murdered her. So why? In In a restraining, orders are one thing, Restraining. Orders are for people that obey. Rules I guess I would say it's only. It's only peace, it's a piece of by piece of papers. You have some by the dozen obey rules and, like we talked about is willing to die. if are willing to do at all costs risk, ever consequences even up to death you know, a restraining order is not yet I dont say it's not worth it, but that's it. Legal step. You happen to you, you have to take that step, but it can't stop everything so right eye and to play some of these I found them. Can heart wrenching, yeah because we were talking about a case that

bob stocking. the one the good thing about this borrow case, eyes to entice talking laws, and things like that is that there is low hey back down the road for him. If you read that, how do you know he's somebody? imprisoned year, two thousand and seven in another and made its and therefore lie finally get a hold of woman in stabs him eleven times course survives bud It's a little low pay back. You know, eleven times eleven times it survives that how do you survive living on that abs, stab wounds? Oh yeah, it's probably one of those homemade shanks or is it I've always forget ones than one's a nasa shake I can ship whatever right there, not long enough to do much damage shiv somebody with a shank, something like when you shank somebody with a shiv. I forget anybody out there. It's been a prison now right. I don't know what it's called yeah, but yet

So we can laugh about this part because two and made weapon made. Weapons were founded, scene, he was treated like you said, survived his return to prison, the other the aspect. Was them serve eighty two years to life for sex degree: murder which sets That's a pretty serious sentence for second degree. Eighty two to life but I mean currently as of as of right now he still serving life since cracked. He is at the arnwood state, prison, unblithe, California, unless some cow for taxpayers taking care of yeah unless something has changed, but them. I give you got anything else on the on this, ah and murder of even over such a long time ago. She took on a depressing man to think about. Some

while young beautiful purchase bianco, I think you mercians life being taken. I think what you think about is in. No kind of goes back to the m, the can't to cakes right, you think about some. May that's that's an she. She was even younger, but what would Person have accomplished, now rebecca schaefer was poised to do She probably one of the biggest stars. You cut it. I've been. You know yeah, we're not gonna robin whenever now and always had that feeling when we were doing the the so Huckabee case him with the murder Saint Sandra. Can't because just the back of my mind. I always think you what would this person be doing they were. She beat it today. Had somebody not done you know, taken their life or so so guess will sign off yeah yeah.

MIKE Ferguson, gibbey, that's gibbey! stay safe and keep your own time taking the.