The The the hello everyone and welcome to episode fifty seven of the true crime, all the time podcast, I'm MIKE Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, MIKE gibson gibi. What's going on, do good man how you doing? alright matt, I'm doing good to get that in there whenever I get yelled at fifty seven episodes in and we really got it now, we do we get out

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Calm, slash, true crime, Ain t t use, use t tickets for ten hours off your order today. Thank you, hunt killer for sponsoring this episode. So, let's start out with our patriarch supporters, we had Amy Russia Montez recommendations Harry and kirsch saw Paul morale brandy, hindley, Alison, dimming, liane, west bang was I was again think we were talking earlier sounds like like a vampire family, vampire name. That's all is that his ideas are supporter of vampire. What would you say? It's a really cool name. It is a cool vampire, chic, troy, tempest, rebecca morgan, Jim Miller, said my flores crystal l, guinean. Try, you think, you're good, that's what I got man! Ok, it is your learn crystal reach out to me.

as this is a spelling. I've never seen before. Gotta get hooked cook on products, you can't even say hooked and you're gonna get hooked on public channing. Thomas almost said: chaining tatum, my buddy chaining tatum, supporting us drunk angie, barnes and then I'll pay pal. We had eugene pay supported this and then, if we go into the patron vol this week we selected scott k so big shot out the scott been a long time since border ok, gamma he's an ok guy, gotta kill scotty K, but with all the above around, pager on talking about adding fees and this in that, and then they turn right around and say you know why we made a mistake. We're not gonna do that. It makes it even that much better that you know people are sticking with this. We did actually lose quite a bit of paper on supporters over

thing which is, I don't, blame those folks they become back. I blame patria on because they do not put the chain gin, but You know worried everybody that they were going to do it run on a bank like it didn't think about it ahead of time. That's that's what you know really gets to me, because none of the creators want Nobody wanted to pass on extra fees to their patron supporters just to keep us so that we would get a little higher percentage volga. Now, though, we're fine they're not going to do it. So we're happy about that. So we gotta give a big shout out to maggie maggie were due in part to have Dahmer

and you know this isn't maggie's backyard. She loves, it loves it. So her writing and research on this one was amazing and then on true crime. All the time unsolved episode out right now on George smith, so we're talking about some newlyweds who go on a royal caribbean cruise for their honeymoon and the groom ends up missing. But it's more the just missing I mean there's a lot of evidence, suspicion of foul play, pointing to the fact that he was probably most likely murdered right and then you the investigation and those interests and doing the research. How many of these types of things happen on these cruises apis there's a ton of mount. Then there is the really so. It's an interesting episode. Everybody checked out went out. We have

Listener on our social media and she's really been good to us, and she do she did something really cool today, man, she donated her kidney just because tis a season to a total stranger yap, laura laurel argument. which was actually very, very amazing. So I'm glad you I remembered that gibbs, so we could give her a shout out your stuff, like that. I mean that that is totally selfless and yeah she's. Not getting any, out of that means not even help in a family member schedule shout out What did you do that to save a perfect strangers? yeah. I love that. I love that somebody in this world today are still stepping up to the plate and doing things doing the right thing, yep so good on her. It's an amazing story. Now we get to somebody not so amazing, because we're gonna be talking about Jeffrey Dahmer, the opposite of laura bad did so, where we left

off. In the last episode, Dahmer had already committed some murders he's working at the chocolate factory. We talked about that he was playing with his mannequin. He was doing a lot of stuff that a lot of people talking about the episode last week that we we talked about him masturbating a lot, but I sure did and the guy did and he did though he continues to do it so yeah, that's a really good chance, I'm going to have to say it again, so we're up to november of ninety. He eighty seven dahmer still living with his grandmother and he meets a man from Michigan by the name of stephen tore me. Twenty five years old they meet at a bar and Dahmer suggests that they go back to the ambassador hotel, so they run a room and they're gonna spend some time together, low quality time, low quality time together. Here

from damas own account of the story. He did not set out to murder. Stephen tore me when he had the idea of going back to the hotel with him. Now he did mean to drug him and rape him. While he was passed out. I could we talked about that a lot in the first episode yeah. This is his emma key legs for his victims to be, the acetate id lifeless, and so that's what he had in mind for this incident, but Dahmer says he woke up the next morning any found stephen lying underhand I'm all bruised up had bruises all over him and his chest was caved in. There was blood dripping out of the corner of his mouth now. At the same time, Jeffrey Dahmer is covered in bruises all up and down his arms. So this was a very fit

if goal encounter, but he doesn't seem to remember being counter that well, The end result is that your stephen ends up day, you're here say later that he has no memory of how it happened. What exactly happened that caused stephen to die, but Dahmer leaves the hotel and he goes and buys a large suit case, and this is what he uses to take the body out of this hotel. If you think about it, gibbs in vain of planning, murder. He really wasn't planning a murder he didn't have anything with him right. So some of what he sank does make sense loescher. He had to go out the next day because he did something he was not expecting today could give us a suitcase, and so he leaves the hotel was stevens by

in the suitcase and remember he's living with his grandmother. So he goes back to his grandmothers house with this suit case and once he gets the suit case down to the basement. This is where things go very, very dark. It's already. Darkies he's murdered a man, but now he has sex with the corpse so we're talking about necrophilia. At this point he gets a body in the soup

it takes it back to grandma's house takes it downstairs and zips it rolls them out. Does his little sex thing? Okay, as will make sure you know nah. I think you've been grasping at it yeah, but remember at this point, stephen is dead. He is in the state that Jeffrey Dahmer prefers right right. He can't leave, he can't protest. He can't do any. He can't say anything right and Dahmer is going to talk about this a lot later on, but he's also going to eight that he was masturbating constantly on the corpse he was slicing, parts of Stevens flesh off and then about a week after having this corpse of of stephen tore me in the basement, He proceeds to dismember the body as a long time to Have a body in year in your house. It's gonna start to smell

and we know that has a funky smelter, because we confirm that with another. So we did gather that the anthony soul, episode? There are a lot of similarities here, there's a lot of differences, but there's a lot of some similarities as well till he removes the head, the arms, the leg from the body, but he also lays the flash from the bones completely and then what dahmer said is that he cut the flesh up into small pieces so that he could easily dispose of it. He put everything in the trash bags, except for the bones, and then he took the bones rap those up and smash them with a sledgehammer. This save a lot of work. Is man in your living by yourself, your grandmother larry with you upstairs honey. What are you doing down there and grandma does work, although project

sledge hammer makes a hell of a lot of noise, but I say it say it sounds a lot of work dahmer said that he did all this in about two hours really fast. It seems like it from that description, it seems like tat, would take a long time very it be really good at it. You know so after all of that he throws everything into the trash except for the head and he kept the head for two weeks, kept it wrapped up in a blanket now one point: he tried to boil the head in a mixture of detergent and bleach because he thought this was going to keep it intact. and all the while during this this two week period, he is using this skull for sexual gratification really grossman it is I mean there's this whole thing is There's gonna be a lot of on board,

nobly twisted grows, I mean you can use their fifty different adjectives to describe what he does her cook. Eventually the skull. It starts to fall apart because of all the the harsh the goals and he's handling in a lot here is so as it starts to fall apart. He smashes it up with the sledge hammer as well in the little pieces any gets rid of it and the remains of stephen have never been found. So this comes from Dahmer and Dahmer alone right. This is not like they found the remains of stephen tore me they amr just talked about it. After the fact I started savings skeletons and preserving other parts and one

lead to another. It took it, took more and more deviant, tight behaviors to satisfy my urges- and so I just spiral out of control workin here- a lot from Dahmer himself in this episode in the one thing that strikes me gibbs is he's actually very well spoken. He seems he is fairly intelligent. But then he just he had this unbelievable dark side and in all these interviews he talks about it like it's nothing I mean he does show a little bit haven't even know if I'd caught remorse, I think he knows it was wrong yeah because he talks at that, but it's very matter of factly and we see that a lot for a serial killer. Oh absolutely too, too much and unfortunately I think that's initially takes everybody back a step. You know there are this disguise

town it like he was January. His office job went today, but you hearing talking about keeping the skulls, and you know that the sexual connect, in the end. This is another thing you hear a lot. It starts out small, but then that's not enough right. Whatever somebody's doing is not enough to satisfy that frog demon that sexual component- and so they ratcheted and that's ok for a little while, but then that's not enough to satisfy the cravings either. It just keeps warning going and the next thing you know it's murder and its necrophilia, and it's all these horrible things. So after he committed this murder, dumb ready to find more men to say by his side. or urges you? He is a predator. This point he's visiting

hey bars, he's luring men back to his home that he shares with his grandma have to keep saying that you know grandma's grandma's turn away. Sometimes you know they. You know they're, probably not he's in the base most the time and I have a feeling that she's proud she was probably in bed by the time he's getting home from barbarism and she's not up it sure eleven. Twelve one, two o clock in the morning to watch your johnny Carson and went to bed and went to bed. Maybe didn't you make it up for johnny, but Dahmer word drug these individuals, their use saxon ball and then in lahti cases he would strangle them. The death and he's gonna talk a little bit about his type, but he didn't really have a concrete, what he would say. Is there

were men that caught his eye. You know he he preferred good. Looking men but age ranges very, pretty wildly know the the his next victim was fourteen years old. As a kid yeah yeah, he really took it to a different level. Really is fourteen year old was named james docs, tater and Dahmer said that he paid james fifty dollars to pose for some naked pictures for him, and this is a thing that that you're going to see a lot with Dahmer as well. He was really big into photography, not just as a ruse, but he would keep these pictures as trophies little tip if you're going to do nude photography, get the money upfront, nude modeling, get it up front. What does it matter if you get the money up front? If he's going to kill you he's just going to take the money back and you're not going to be dead, I'm just on outside at amr know you don't do it

if you're not going to be killed, they're not going to be killed, get the money up front cause for these people. It wasn't going to matter the minute that that he targeted then the other they made the decision that they were gonna go with them. Their date was do do they were in big big up to Dahmer was able to get james down in the basement, drugging strangle him the day and in this instance, you have different, then than the previous victim. He was already at home, he didn't have to transport the body, but he just left the body the basement for about a week again before he did was essentially the same thing as he did to Stephen kept the skull again placed all the rest. The remains in the trash this time What experiment with these skulls this time he boiled it. He was doing a lot of experimentation to see what worked, what didn't,

work, but eventually this one broke down as well, any anything skull. Get anyone get to my car, but you think of a skull is something very sturdy, but the fact of him boiling it and using all these detergents, and I think that it had something to do with them. Breaking down this when he said eventually essentially in turn into dust, wormy, bones, boris, so yeah, but he's also using the sculls yeah he's putting wear and tear Yes, I guess that's where he is. I mean he's here using them is part of his sexual gratification, so their wearing down, but he said his skull turned to dust it's use now, march of nineteen. Eighty eight dahmer meets a man named richard guerrero and is outside of a gay bar. It's called the phoenix and, like others, he's able

to lure guerrero back to his home and I say his home, but trillion rambles is grannies, he's living there, but he drugs in he strangled him to death and this one's a little tough, because it was said that he performed oral sex on the course of our work. One in though how was his dogs I don't want to say the word courteous goes out, not curious. What I mean- I don't think it does this guy, is really was not one, I'm trying to figure out right, Jeffrey Dahmer, but ultimately dahmer you. He treats this victim in the same exact way dismembering cutting up? keeping the skull and too it's no longer usable the very next month heap another man home drugs, him

by giving him some laced coffee, but something different happens here. Gibbs his grandma comes down and Dahmer would explain that new she called downtime she's like hey Jeff, is that you and he tried to- lay off like he was alone, but he knew that it was He knew his grandma knew. Somebody else was there, so he did not kill this man, funny thing happens right after this is, I'm off finally tells him he's got to go in september of nineteen. Eighty eight don't think the reasons wire. Probably that surprising home a lot of men late hours, but probably the biggest thing is the smell coming from the basement, where he- lives yet gives you know that was a very putrid very

strong smell that would a wafted all the way up through that house had to be rough living there. It did She had to have known brighton, maybe not what was going on, but something's, not right. Now, he's gotta get out here and then she kicks him out now a word from our sponsor better how you know when you're at your best, you can do great things, but some times. Life gets you bogged down. Sometimes you feel overwhelmed may not be showing up in the way that you want to working with. The therapists can help you get closer to the best version of ie, because when you feel empowered, you're more parents to take on everything life throat, z, I've used better help. Personally, I I found it extremely beneficial. I love the fact that I can connect with the therapist from the comfort of my home. If you're thinking of giving therapy a try better help is a great option. It's convenient flag,

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but just after he moves into this apartment, Jeffrey Dahmer is arrested for drugs and sexually assaulted a thirteen year old boy that he had lord back to his apartment. This a thirteen year old, laotian boy and My apparently offered him fifty dollars to pose for some pictures. He did end up taking some polaroid pictures of aim and then a god Sexual nature, and in this instance, Dahmer gave this boy some type of irish cream le coeur any laced it with some tablets of house on your he used. Various things use different types of sleeping pills. Whatever he used these crushed up tablets, it did not

this thirteen year old boy out and he ended up leaving the house. So we talk about this on past episodes gives how lucky now he went through a traumatic experience bright, but how lucky this boy to be alive. Oh big time no aig tap that he was in the grips of that type of serial killer very lucky. You are now that kids he's about our age. If he, if he's still alive, I don't know he didn't die in this encounter. His family ended up taking to the hospital because he he got sick from these tablet. And then they go to the police and the police ended up arresting jeffrey Dahmer at the ambrosia chocolate factory where he's working and he ends up getting convicted second degree, sexual assault, an enticing the child for a moral purposes. He initially pleads nigh

the oldie. Then he changes his plea to guilty and he actually gets sentenced to eight. years in prison for this bees. Gonna do like fraction. Now he is gonna. Do like ten months, I think, tops but before he even serves any time he would kill again, and this would be twenty or your old, anthony, seers and sears was an aspiring model, your good looking guy. They met at a bar, in march of nineteen. Eighty nine is a couple months before he he's going to serve this, sends and actually do homer, would say later that he was really trying hard not to kill anyone during it's time because he knows he's about ready to go he's going to serve some time, but in his words this guy started talking to him. He was incredibly good looking. So he invites the man back to his grandmother

house because he's back living with his grandmother again after being arrested and again, he drew exists. Man, Anthony sears, strangled him after they had had some concerns, tool sexual contact ethic emmi. He could have left it at that right. They had said but he was summoned to move around and that's not what he wanted and again he would have sex with the corpse ultimately would put the body in the bow tab and then the next day would cut off the head would lay the skin off of the body stripping the flat matching the bones: Amelia just the same thing, the same cycle in autumn

we getting rid of the body in the trash. Now this is the first victim where Dahmer would keep a long term. Trophy you know, Anthony sears was somehow very attractive to Jeffrey Dahmer and in some special way, because this is the first time he's really going to keep a trophy for a long period of time, but the details of that are astounding because he preserved his head and he preserved his genitals and some solution of ass, a tone, but that's not even the kicker. He took all this shit to work, of kept it in his work? Locker me just when you think, like this details, bad ok, now this details a little worse ages, the level of the private of jeffrey downwards, like it knows no limits right, there's no into it. For him.

And when he does ultimately move again out of his grandma's house. He takes all this with him. And that's why I say there was some action to anthony sears. That was different? Maybe then too then to some of the other victims, because you can't keep anything like that long term that he was gonna take with him. This was the first time, so he does this stretch in prison and in may of nineteen. Ninety he gives an apartment, nine, twenty four north twenty fifth and this was not a nice area- was described as one of the poorest most dangerous, areas, a mere, very high crime rate, the neighborhood was predominantly african american, but somehow through all of this gives Jeffrey Dahmer was able to keep his job

chocolate factory. Every time you say I want to say willie walker gonna too, but he does. He keeps his job even given work, release him type of work, release programme where he went to work and then he had to go back or somehow they. He was able to keep it I was just really shocked by that, so this apartment was close to his work. It was cheap but again very in a very bad area and this is gonna- be the infamous apartment that If remembers from the tv in pulling vat Let me we're going get and all that, but this is the place and within a couple months of moving into this apartment. He murders two men so he's working in and pretty quick succession. You were, one of these men was named raymond smith. He also

by ricky lee beaks and, as Dahmer tells it he offered raymond smith fifty dollars for sex at his apartment. He gave him a drink mixed with what dahmer said worse bunch of different types of sleeping pills he ends up strangling him the next day he would take polaroid pictures of the body after he had posted in a suggestive ways. The hands up dismembering raymond smith is well boils the arms, the legs, the pelvis and big kettle always took it up a level now you've got there. She got a little witch's kettle. This is the thing with them: yeah it's never it's, it's similar, but it's more got to be more to get that same type of gratification. This time he does.

all the a lot of the bones in acid, but again he kept the skull and he ends up spray painting the skull, and I think he did this with with the anthony sears skull too, because he's going to keep both of these. But something happens in between this victim and the next victim, because he actually has another encounter where he's word a man back to his house. You know he's got. Do the exact same thing to this. Man is well, but Dahmer makes a huge mistake ends up drinking the wrong drink. He drinks the one that is least and causes him to pass out, and this guy robbing robbing blind great man and takes off a little or medicine, but were not much of his manner but yeah, but again think about this guy until later on. When all this is going to come out, man imagine just thought. He began in some free me.

They got some free stuff come to find out. He was intended to be a mannequin victimized and, in the same way, that all these other people have that would have been a tough night on the couch gibbs us that on the news and and know that you had that encounter and that could have been Things have gone. A little differently had been some rough feeling fisher. Some sleepless nights, I would think but not long after they encounter. He does meet a man named edward smith, who get raymond smith. Edward smith, be nervous of you're a smith. He gets edward back to his apartment. Drugs even strangles him, but this time He doesn't try to do some of the same things. He doesn't use the acid. He doesn't tried to bleached the skeleton, or you know, do some of the things that he's done in the past. Now

try putting body parts in the freezer. So again, we're talking about experimentation with Jeffrey Dahmer, and it's all about keeping these individuals with him right in some former capacity or function or something so oh, if I put it body parts in the freezer, will they last longer? Will they yeah trophy yeah? That's that's the type of road that he's going down, but it didn't work. It didn't work the way that he thought it would so he does end up using acid on the skeleton and for some reason it was said that he put this goal of edward smith in dove and exploded on days. Like aids, like a mad scientist, he just ease trying all kinds of different things in summer. Are there in the world things are not working. Bodies expert to figure out what works and what does in about three

goes by in september, Ninety ninety he meets a man named earnest miller earnest I was twenty four years old, dahmer offered earnest miller fifty dollars to go home with him, but it wasn't for sex mean. That's that's not what the fifty dollars agreement was. for it was said that dahmer setting one to listen to his heart and stomach like a doctor, and this is going to come out later from an inn visual who actually got away from Jeffrey Dahmer It's going to relay this same type of information, but when they get back to the apartment, Dahmer does want things to turn sexual and he's told that that's going to cost him more money, but we know gibbs, that's not a problem for Jeffrey Dahmer, no matter how much he's paying it's gonna get them that monies never leaving his person right it might for a minute. you'll get them in the door and asked me to come back to it, because you get

ernest miller lace drink, but apparently the sedative sleeping pills. It's not strong enough and he ends up actual slitting his throat. Instead of strangling him, an earnest bleeds out pretty quickly any dots Dahmer take some polaroids of him like he had done with other victims. He dismember the body he cut off his head and Dahmer would say that he would have a conversation with the head, as he was doing his work on the rest of the body like wilson, like Wilson, from cast here he eats is having some serious mental mental issues conclusions now this time he takes the heart. He takes the biceps and some other pieces. A puts him in the fridge because he's gonna eat em and a lot of you

no Jeffrey Dahmer. As a cannibal, I was reaching out that when the cannibalism started. the irish and they are our muscle It was a way of making me feel that they were a part of me. first. It was just curiosity and then it became Compulsory that mean that is Jeffrey Dahmer. Talking about Him branching out into cannibalism in eating the heart eating the the bicep the arm. So just to see what it was lying here. Also say that part of the room The behind eating parts of the victim was that by doing that, he felt like that person would stay with him, but at the same time he talks about that. It gave him some type of

sexual gratification. I don't know how the hell that happens, but for him it did what turn him on? No things were crossed and they do get crossed with with some of these serial killer. Biscuit major lacrosse man, but he would. Also keep earnest miller score. He would pain it together, the painting these skulls and keeping them as trophies predominate, met a man at the mall by the name of David Thomas invited him to his house to have some drinks and again he talks about offering to pay this man to pose for nude photographs. Drugged is Bank, but Dahmer would make some statements about this man later on that, once you got back to the apartment he realized. He wasn't attracted to this man and Dahmer was big on it, action, you, that's that's how he selected as victims. He was careful in any in that region.

Really visual visual person. He wanted only attractive people, and for whatever reason, once you got back, he changed his mind. And you didn't think this guy was. He wasn't attracted to him, but he killed deem because Didn't want to guide wake up. What's he gonna? Do it already drug dealing, so we ended killing this man- strangled aim dismembered him, but he didn't keep anything didn't keep any trophies didn't put anything in the fridge. Didn't do any of that because he had no connection to this man. He wasn't attracted to him now what he did do as he did take some photos. and it was said that some of these photographs were taken. Why The murder was was happening in these photographs would later be used to help. I d david thomas, as he was ourselves in the foot Graphs Dahmer would next kill in february of ninety ninety one, and this would be

seventeen year old man that Dahmer saw at a bus stop again, he used the. I will give you money to pose for some new photographs and there were some possible sex talk as well this man, his name- was Curtis stronger and they did. engaging in some oral sex. But then he drugged and strangled him and dismembered him, but with Curtis, stronger Dahmer would keep the hands the skull and the genitals. And again it was said that during this that he took photographs notch of the corpse as he was dismembering the body. So he was taking photographs of him doing his work. I if he was calling that a souvenir gibbs and he was using that later on for sexual at the had a lot that he was using for sexual ratification. There's there's no two ways around here. He talks about the law

yeah in April that same year he meets a man named arrow lindsey, an lindsey goes back to the apartment, he's drugged. But this is one that a lot of people remember, because air lindsey is the main that dahmer spare minute on. He tried to drill a hole in his skull and ended this whole you he poured hydrochloric ass. He said he was try again beer minting like a mad scientist. He was trying to was this individual to be almost like the bottom ized, where he would still be alive? but wouldn't leave have any thoughts wooden protest against whatever Jeffrey Dahmer wanted to do. This was his like dream. I gives go back depths of one we talked.

The mannequin. What he wanted was a live mannequin right, that's what I believe dear, I believe, are too So he was experimenting on how he could make that happen, but didn't work. The man actually woke up with a hole in his head and by Jeffrey Dahmer. His account asked him what time it was imagine. No. I cannot imagine. I can't either he drilled a hole in this I had the guy wakes up asking what time it is and says I have a headache. It would be the worst headache that anybody could ever have. You have a hole in your head. So what is Dahmer? Do he drugs him again and he proceeds to strangling because the experiment didn't work and with arrow, lindsey Dahmer would cut off his head

would keep the skull. He did even more experimentation with the body he tried to preserve it. He tried different things: cold, water, salt he's all kinds of different things to see what would work none of this, that he was tryin was workin. Killing was just a means to an end that that was the least said this factory per, enjoy. Doing that. That's why I tried to create the living. Zombies was sir. a gas and the drill, but I never work. No killing wasn't wasn't the objective. I just wanted to have the person under my complete control, not having to consider their wishes, to keep them there. As long as I wanted, it's not easy to say that. But that's that's what the modem! I don't know. Maybe I felt I had no kind

child or young adult, that got mixed in with me actuality and I ended up- doing what I did was my way of feeling in incomplete control, at least for that situation creating my own little world. Where I hand the fine say finding. Looking guy that I could and having total mastery over him for as long as I wanted lust played a big part of it, trolling lost that That was the motive. So there you can really here, Jeffrey Dahmer, talking about kind of what maiden tick. Maybe the reasons why he did what he did a lot of it about control a lot a bit about last ten mixed up with sex

you're very interesting to hear dahmer in his own words lot pieces to the new pieces to that pose lot layers yet layers, you mean the guy did some horrific, horrific things but again, you just when you hearing talk, you don't worry see him. I don't. I don't see it. On the surface mean this was like in his soul, he just day a bad guy, but out Lee many had a job right. He was able to snow people camouflaged these things that he was doing, but he's murdered a number of people at this apartment already and neighbours are starting to complain about the smells they should and you would imagine that that they would there also starting to complain that there some chainsaw noises at all hours. Low leather face action, Yonah well in an apartment complex, you dont,

we expect to hear somebody using a chainsaw, not cutting a tree or anything like that. But we know what Jeffrey Dahmer was using it for, but what dahmer would say two people, neighbours and he would say frazier broke, and that that's what that smell, all the spoiled meat and things that's where the the smell was coming from. He also said his fish died at one point, which is a little less plausible: new, gives this parted. Ninety ninety one down is murdering people at an astounding rate, one nineties at the club and and by the name of tony who uses there in tony hughes, was deaf and mute and Dahmer actually passes him a note inviting him back to his apartment for drinks and when he gets this montoni hues

back to his apartment. He drugs even dismember member's any keeps the skull and just a holidays later, but he just these not satisfied right things- are s, waiting at an alarming rate just a few days later, he offers money to a fourteen year old boy named conrad senate, though so phone, it's a very hard name to say when they say for you, you can try. That's ok! I don't I don't like mispronouncing victims. Names is a very tough needed is a tough name say. Is a fourteen year old kid he offers this boy. Money to pose need for him. But there is an unbelievable connection here, because contract was the younger brother of the boy that Jeffrey die had molested back in nineteen. Eighty eight three years earlier so it's unbelievable when you think about the fact that you, he victimized two boys

and the same family, two brothers, he drugs, this boy he performs oral sex on him wise out and at one point he takes this way into the room where the body of tony hughes is lang member, he just been killed. Just a few days earlier and he's lying nude on the floor meet you. You can't it's hard, to imagine this in your head gives how horrific this would have been this disc it ends up passing out from a combination of the drugs, and the abuse and all that. But at some point he does. wake up any manages to get outside of the house. He stumbles out of the apartment. In these days, dazed he's woozy. It was said that he was bleeding from his wrath. buddy, spotted by some women on the street. And they actually call nine one one on hi day.

It. Brightened the day broke up and then he's gonna fall out. He has he been like he has no clothes on. He was really hurt, and I you know I ain't got the recording fit, but thank the corner of twenty fifth. The day is just around the corner and a lot. We try to help people trying to help I just right. Now and again am I gonna drop them or whatever. So she said he was butt naked a couple of times, but these are good samaritans. I mean they are trying to get this kid. Some help and police respond, but incomes, Jeffrey Dahmer talked to the police as they're investigating, and he tells them that that this kid's nineteen years old that they're lovers and they just you- know- he'd been drinking that gotten a fight so he's telling this story to the cops and they believe him

We let him take this boy back into the apartment. That's amazing! It is amazing. Fourteen years old, nineteen years old, there's quite a difference there to some. You got somebody's naked, bleeding incoherent, yep out of bleeding out of the rear end, and the police handling of this incident it's gonna come under a huge amount of of higher and scrutiny later on which it should end. It should because, from all the details, everything you read, they should have done more public report. Fast till neighbour saw the boy staggering legged outside the apartment just a month ago, and they called police, but no longer that no further police brushed aside the incident as a domestic disputes between lovers regarding

the victim on iraq, synthesis phone. I confirm that on may the twenty seventh Ninety ninety one in the Milwaukee police department had contact with the accused, Jeff, Dahmer and the victim this is a matter of grave concern to me and the entire department the Sir involved will be suspended from duty pending the outcome of this investigation. How do you feel about the fact that seemingly donner slip through your fingers back in may and that these instilling victims would be alive today? Possibly of those officers had investigative? I wish I could feeling into words for you today right now, I can so obviously that's a press conference later on, but I wanted to play it here. You hear the quest

We know, there's gonna be more victims and the cops could have stopped, even if gibbs they would have run him. I meet his background or registered sex offender They should definitely done more for sure, just some really amazed that they didn't even get his is I mean you know I hate to I hate to bag on the cops, but man, sometimes they just get it wrong this one they get wrong. I do believe they did. was so sad about it. Is he ends up killing this boy by every measures should have gotten away tried to get away. Was essentially handed back to free dahmer by the police and hands up killing, dollars. Next victim would be a man, a mat turner actually met in Chicago and somehow Dahmer is able to talk matt turner into traveling to Milwaukee

I didn't think again: it's all around some, the guy a photo shoot he's drugged. He strangled he's dismembered and with this victim, Dahmer takes the head and organs, put them in the freezer and the very next month he goes back to chicago any lures. A man named Jeremiah Weinberg, her back to his house drugs aim and with Jeremiah he injects boiling hot water into his head traffic. I do that suck it up into a syringe from like a boiling pot, I guess and then stick it and so my head. I guess and then pushed the plunder. That's all! I know why you think that's gonna be better. I think he's just. Experiment just experimenting. I dunno what other word to use his trying different things, but it throws this man into a coma and he dies a couple days later again, I think

another instance where he's trying to keep some alive, but essentially libitum ized and he's trying different variations of the DRC. living in the acid now is trying boiling hot water in that very same month. So we're still in july of ninety ninety one this as we call it, gives the frog demon d, the urges They are so strong for Jeffrey Dahmer right now. Its peak season at some point almost like one one victim a week. It seems like that meets a man named oliver lacy and again uses this I'll. Give you money. If you'll, let me take nude photographic you they do have. Sex, but then dahmer drugs, lacy, but his

we're manning this time gipsies with trying to keep this man alive. He turns to chloroform, but that doesn't work so he ends up strangling. So it's almost like this cycle of now going to try this and when it doesn't work strangle the person, I'm then dismay for them I'm going to keep some of the body. Parts have sex with the body part you're going to have sex with the body part. Sometimes in this, He puts the head in the hard in the fridge he put some parts in the freezer, but somewhere around this point, yours, it's kind of amazing, because dollars a has been able to keep this job at the chocolate factory for quite a long time, but his work foremans was slipping. He gets fired so now has even more time on his hand, so things are happening so quickly in this month of July nights, nanny

one with Dahmer is able to lure a man named Joseph braden, half back to his house, and this is she gonna be dollars. Last murder, victor braden off twenty five years old. They, they are intimate. An event Dahmer strangling, kills me leaves his body laying around the house for a few days in them, He decides to come back to the body because he's I do whatever it is he's going to do with it. He finds maggots everywhere on the body on his sheets. A skin starts to crawl. Even talking about it, he cuts off the head, he puts it in the refrigerator, but he takes the torso and he puts it in a big yeah, like fifty five gowan drum puts acid. In their he's, got some other victims in there is well, let's disturbing that made. The whole thing is disturbing

I mean when I can remember on the news and a lot of people will the they actually captured it on tape them wheeling out this. Fifty five gallon drums but on July twenty second, I mean five. Six peoples is six person that we're talking. in July alone, he's a to get a man named Tracy edwards, to come back to the house offered him money to again take nude photographs but Tracy's going to survive this encounter. He's gonna lived to talk about it and he said when he got to the house immediately, noticed the horrible smell of death, and he saw containers of acid around the house and Tracy Edwards is is different from from most of the victims. He's he's not homosexual. He was headed

sexual, but at some point there having drinks, Dahmer gets out handcuffs him and is able to get one handcuff on, but he's not able to get to Second, one on so Dahmer pulls out a knife because he's not able to sit subdue this guy. And he is able to force him into the bedroom, and what Tracy Edwards would say is that in this bedroom there were pictures of naked men everywhere plastered on the walls. The movie exorcise three was playing and Geoffrey Dahmer talks about this, give he was mesmerized by the movie. The exorcist number three there's something in that one that he connected with and edward would later say that we saw the big drawn in the corner and he said he could tell. There was something and there it smelled horrible and then edward, said something very strange happened: die

we're just set down put the knife down started looking at the tv that was playing exorcise three movie and just started rocking. back in fourth chanting, almost like He was in some kind of a trance this is kind of foreshadowed it before, but then Dahmer looked back. This is when he said that he wanted to list. two tracy Edwards heart beat and that ultimately he was gonna eat his heart and this whole time Tracy Edwards is trying to play K. Dahmer, say and he's a friend he's, not gonna leave he's trying to calm jeffrey Dahmer down One point he says you I gotta use the bathroom and then trade edwards, finds his perfect spot and he's a punches Jeffrey Dahmer right now face any bolts out.

the front door? He was listening to my heart because had a point he told me he was going to eat my heart if I hit him in iran, so not very long, but that's a clip of Tracy edwards. What do you do in this situation? Hit him in the face and hit him in the face and run yep that he was lucky to get out of there alive, because so many people before him in that exact situation, they never made it. You know what any dinner party he's the year he's: or by sitting around. What's in here that story by how he got away. Some people might be able to talk about that pretty easily some people, It would be trip so dramatic. They would never want to bring it up again. You didn't have enough yesterday, but it would be one

I have a story to sit and listen to, but things roll on pretty quick from here cause Tracy Edwards goes to the cops he's able to lead police to Jeffrey Dahmer. His apartment he'd been there for about five hours and police are questioning Dahmer and he he does admit to handcuff

Tracy edwards, but he says you know kind of like he did with that that boy earlier on, you know we were this. Was sex play he's trying to play all of this off to the cops? What else can he do it worked before? It did work before it shouldn't have, but it did, but it doesn't take police very long. They find the knife that he had that he was holding Tracy edwards, essentially a hostage with this. They see a drawer. It's got a bunch of those polaroids. You know right away, gives some of those polaroids they're, not just of nude men, they're of nude torsos, dead, yeah dismembered in the process of dismembering me right away, police. no. That Dave stumbled onto something and Dahmer knows it too, because he tries to fight him at one point, but they getting down pretty quick they coffin and then they go to the refrigerator and inside the refrigerator they

and a severed head on the shelf me. What are you thinking as a police officer? At that point You open up the the meda they're in the frigid air and there is a human head on the shelf. I think I would have thrown up. I know you would have you got a week, constitution, for this kind of stuff year. But when it's all said and done and investigators comb through that house, they find for severed heads seven skulls blood all over the place. Two hearts part of somebody's bicep muscle human organs and flash in the freezer, and it was said that you had been there while was stuck die like it was frozen together. They find two whole complete skeletons. A pair of severed hands, a couple of severed penises that had been

served in some kind of solution, a mummified scalp and then the big fifty five gallon drum that was filled with when they got ahold. Of that thing, it had three torsos in that were dissolving an acid, and it was said, found a total of seventy four polaroid pictures and These you know, had been so unbelievably brutal. It's hard to imagine what these pictures even were. I it's not something even one inside your head know. I can't even imagine flipping through all those the chief medical examiner would come out and say that it was like going through a museum taking a part of the museum, more so than any crime scene. He'd ever see, some neighbours here had complained of a stand were almost a year, but they never imagine what might be positive. A walkie police were led to an apartment in this building after they were black down by a hand up ban who claimed he had been

and while they discovered upon their arrival, was almost unspeakable numerous pieces from as many as fifteen human bodies, including three heads preserved and a refrigerator. It's obvious that there is has been a number of human specimens found within the the apartment and to a certain extent they have been there some time. A hazardous materials team reading from air tanks confiscated a number of items from the suspect's apartment. Among them we say photographs and drawings of dead, mutilated bodies, and about of ass. It always believe this aspect, and I have used the acid to dissolve body parts. Aber reversal say they heard sign in the apartment at all hours of the day and night I fear the neighbour years, sawing off boat, hours day and night. Maybe you no one wants to call and the smell. When a smelting surprised, many only the only thing is in the research did talk about. This is a rough area, so

I dont know: if maybe people didn't wanna call they they weren't used to calling police. They didn't want to call the police. Maybe they were into some shady stuff too. I don't know, but you would thanks. Somebody would have alerted authorities that sums goin on Add the damn chainsaw that he's using it two o'clock in the morning I gotta be up at five, I'm going to have problem with it yeah. I would have a huge problem with that. Now Jeffrey Dahmer, It might not be the person that you want to knock on the door and start bitch into though it's true he might make yellow it might give you, coffee and the next thing you know year. Nobody will ever see you again. You SAM, follow your head. I think about that. Stuff gives the older I get used to be a real hot head. When I was younger, I've tried to tony down a little bit because you just don't know who's on the other side yep. I tell people that all the time could be you you don't know what I'd always think. I could

and into another gibbey, and then you go I'm in trouble the quiet ones. Yet the look out if it is it is, but you ve Dahmer confessed these pretty quickly. He started to confess quickly took a while to get it all out me. You're talking about a lot of murders allotted details took a couple of weeks. It it was said, maybe sixty hours of of interviews, he waved his right too Turning to Seti, wonder confess it also. Ultimately, he he confesses to murdering sixteen people in wisconsin. What is essentially four years right from about eighty seven to ninety one, sixteen people and then Stephen hicks. He would tell police that cause. You know they asked him gibbs. Why? Why did you keep the skulls? Why did you keep skeletons and different in this and that and Dahmer would tell them that he was

planning on making an altar from the body parts of his victims? A talked about that this was gonna, be a place where he would meditate and he would garner his power from this alter some sick shit. Man, you're really is Jeffrey Dahmer is it's a he. He something else was a whole nother level. Here he is he's a whole nother I mean there are. There are people that will get two that are worse than him, but not many mean he is. He is really up there you his trial starred in january of ninety two, and there there was a lot.

racial tension you're at this trial, the majority of these victims were african american. You know there were some caucasian victims. There were some asian victims, but a large part of the victims were african american and that caused a lot of racial tension, coupled with the fact that you know not only were they ticked off at jeffrey Dahmer for what he'd done, they were ticked at the cops for what we already talked about and after it came out, that they could have stopped this before a good number of victims were killed. Dahmer started out pleading not guilty, even though he had confessed to all the crimes. I don't get that we heard that sometimes you know as we're goin through these cases, and I never do understand that. Then he changed to say that he was guilty by reason of insanity and, of course, the defence word

They had all the horrible details of what he did and basically they said no sane person, a person that was in their right mind would do these things and there's that there's a part of you that has that they get. That is true, but I dont think he was insane. I really don't. I think, was evil? I think he was. He doesn't foul of the sound and saying to me so lucky knew what he was to do. Right. Thinking knew what he was doing. I think he knew it was wrong. I just don't think he could stop himself. Almost like an alcoholic or compulsive some made its addicted to something he was addicted to this. He got addicted to it. He eat it. Couldn't stop being so. Or you didn't want to stop himself one of the other and either either way doesn't matter some addictions kill me. I believe he he knew what he was doing

the jury didn't buy any of of what the defence tried to offer up. They founding guilty on all counts only took about ten hours to deliberate, and originally he got fifty consecutive life terms, and then he got another one a sixteenth later on, but I wanna play a clip of this stir of arab lindsey? One of the victim it's during the year of the impact statement, because it's very powerful says the airlift. Whatever your name is a I'm mad. This is how you act when you are out of control. I don't want to ever see my about the god. Do this again, Jeffrey at the

I she went off on him, Joram satan there, one source you do tat she was probably spot on that then she called him up a whole bunch of other name, but she went Glamour, man yeah, I don't either and a lot of people will probably heard that it was played not with all the cuss words, but it was played on the news quite a bit back in the day yeah and there were a lot. There were a lot of other impacts statements to, but then Jeffrey Dahmer addresses the court. Any only talks right and take the stand, so you really talks in court at the very end when everything's kind of said and done, I didn't never want freedom. Frankly, I want a death for myself. This was a case to tell the world, but I did what I did nothing reasons of hate I hated no one I knew I was sick or evil were both now

believe I was sick. I should have stayed with god. I tried and failed who created a holocaust and if I could give my life right now to bring their loved ones back, I would do it. I am so very sorry. I deserve whatever I get because of what I have done. We taught we touched on this in the first episode. Gibbs, the one thing that Dahmer does is he does take responsibility for what he did. I mean even in the in the first up zone in the car, where he saying you can't blame my parents. This was this was on me yeah, but it's easy to take responsibility when you got life sentences. Oh, when you're already caught sharing, it's easy to sit back and do that and try to sound like you're the somehow you're a better person well, then you're, right or your right, but there are. There are a lot of people that don't write. There are a lot of people that I didn't say I was with somebody else or I was made to do this by whatever you know, let em all burn with you with

specially here man, I just the things he did so dahmer- goes to prison. He segregated from from general population because he be the target man. But at some point he actually asks prison officials for them to let him be around other inmates, because he knew what would happen. He did say he wanted death. He did and that's what you want. That's what you do you go to the general pop and guess what nah. So guess why, in july of ninety four, a man named as vol, though dorothy prisoner. He try slash Dahmer throat with the shank, taking really slash too good with the shank and that's where we must We got kind of superficial, whom is it the knife it didn't. He wasn't really that hurt by the attack, but his family, Mountain said that Dahmer was ready to die in kind of your point.

yeah. He had to have known that people are gonna, come after him and an engine pop. I think he was ready for it. He was ready to accept it. Whether because he didn't want to sit in prison for the rest of his life and so to know, but he you have to wait long because on november twenty eight nineteen, eighty four He was a sign. This work detail with two other convicted murderers. So basically three murders trying to get some work done. That's what you got her pillow power struggle who who tells who were who's the who's, the boss, who's the supervisor. In that situation, so one one of them. Man's name was Jesse Anderson and the other was christopher scarborough and at some point during word detail. They were cow alone by the guards guards weren't right there and scarves ended up beating both of these men with like a like a bar or from a bar bower dumbo

and geoffrey Dahmer would die about an hour after the beating. This other me Jesse anderson died a few days later, nato out to get you didn't just kill Jeffrey Dahmer. He killed another person owners around Jeffrey Dahmer met his death this morning, while working as a janitor or cleaning a prison bathroom another inmate, spected of beating him to death at this prison in wisconsin authorities. say: Dahmer died of massive head injuries, a second in may injured in the attack as in critical condition. Work was fond of the sea. Is a body bouman online too many, including Dahmer zone attorney, comes as little surprise wasn't shocked because I I thought then Jeffrey Dahmer would end up this way. I don't know what happened with that bloody broom handle gives try to figure configured out. There could have been some extracurricular.

activities going on. I think, maybe so that I don't think anybody would have batted an eye at, but he was definitely killed with like a he wasn't killed with a broom handle. He was kill with the like. Metal pipe, but you know what you hold onto when you're lifting weights or something like dumbbell yeah, like the the barbell or the part that bright you put the weight on the bar. Christopher's carver, so he's the man that killed Jeffrey Dahmer and he come out later and say why he killed him in the reasons were kind of odd are kind of different than what you would think it wasn't because he was a serial killer, wasn't because Christopher sky, Never was african. American and Dahmer had killed it, but it wasn't anything like that. The reason that he was disturbed by his crimes, but what really put

scarf or over the edge was that apparently Jeffrey Dahmer had this habit of taking his food at chow time, and he would form it into look like severed limbs and then he would pour ketchup on it and he wouldn't eat the food he would just leave. It sit there for everybody to see and apparently scarves got tired of seeing that shit and he beat him to death this is a key was doing on purpose. You know where they said turning him, but he was. I I think I e was taunting other everybody. I think he was asking for in a way I dont know if he was or not, but it. Why would you do that in any place filled with killer? especially when they say hey, stop doing that. You're pissing me off. Will you keep doing it you're asking for something the other he wasn't. He got what he s were now scarborough. Would

so say that the prison guards could have stopped in, but they did you they could stop them before. He killed Jeffrey Dahmer, but they let it happen so Jeffrey Dahmer the will and basically said he. I want any type of service. He went to be cremated was he was cremated and apparently his ashes were split between his parents, so just to talk about just a few random things gibbs as we wrap this episode up after he was arrested and convicted and and all of that Jeffrey Dahmer, estate and you say, estate, it's kind of a strong word for what Jeffrey Dahmer had right. He had a shithole apartment, but it was awarded to the families of a number of the victims who had sued him and at one point the families got together and they were going to auction off the stuff from his house. They were going to auction off the refrigerator that

house that held their their family members. They were gonna, know auctioned off all these peace and unity. oh people would have oh long, there's people out love that of man. There would have been a lot of, people probably lining up to buy a piece of Jeffrey Dahmer, have something that get that fridge and put their peanut butter and jelly sandwich in it dunno if they would have used it to store actual food and it would not be fd a safe at this when I don't think, but a lot of people said no, that's not right here. Could you you can't do that So what happened was there was some type of civic group that raised a bunch of money to give to the families and they took off his possessions and they destroy them good for them, for it should be that whole apartment building was demolished. Thank goodness, and now it's a vacant lot still creepy his father and stepmom still live in ohio, nothing and one point his his dad

he wrote a, but you hurt his dad and in some of the interviews yet his first step, so he wrote a book called father story and He gave us a good amount of the proceeds to the victim's. You got it. You gotta, give me some. Some crime for that year and, if you believe Jeffrey Dahmer there. He really said that his pair were not to blame and they didn't do anything. To him to caused him to be this monster that he ended up becoming his mother died from cancer in two thousand and his brother David. We talked about him and in the first steps, Jeffrey Dahmer actually named him. He changed his last name, don't blame It's a very little is known about him, but Dahmer I mean that name just evokes like a sense of dread and there's not the. I don't think it's a very common name so due to walk around being David don

yeah people. Would it's not going to take them long to figure out hop culture, dahmer rifkin right? There are certain names that you hear when you're like yeah, so I mean it's not like you're, David smith or David Jones right, David Dahmer is going to stick out again. So that's it for the the story of Jeffrey Dahmer, one of the worst that we've done. I think yeah. Thanks for the nightmares tonight, yeah you're welcome alright gibbs. So let's cleanse the palate a little bit lets us play. A couple of voicemails can be carried out here in new Hampshire. I wanted to thank you so so much for my little present with the mug. I love everything. It's a christmas super early christmas, the atom, and I love your podcast. I listen to it all the time and you guys do an awesome job and keep your own time ticket and have a great christmas. I know thank you so much kelly, glad you're enjoying them

dice is that where my mug went yeah I had to send your mug to cal hope she washed it out. I hope she washed it to there. It always cracks me up, never gets old to me. It probably gets old the listeners yeah, but it's older me. I know the high desert married outta, Jacksonville florida. I work at. U p s and we're going to keep these guys want to. Let you know that I just love your show and it gets me through the day, especially these long days or peak season at you. ps have a great christmas, and thank you remember, though seasons. The hours can ask us. Hello. U p s, you might have trained mary back in the day, maybe down in the jacksonville area. No, no ten years, though I know exactly what she's going through This is a rough time a year for postal workers. You p s that acts very busy throughout their hope in it, but we appreciate the voice. My mary thank you so

large our gives, I don't know that was you know not not as many voicemail zone a thousand not declined your path. Nah, that's gonna take a lot more than that. I think where people needed more voicemails, that's what it is. You got to go home and watch some comedies or something to oh yeah, but that's it another episode of true crime, all the time so, for my aunt gave me stay safe Keep your own time. Taking The

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