Welcome everyone to episode, twelve of crime, all the time, for he and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime. My gibbey gibson, what's goin on give just glad to be here always always fun being studio, so well stuff gone on. Lately, man then pretty busy. So we did. We do you'd our first listener. Hometown episode does with Jordan turned out. Awesome I went

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you can support the show on patriarch for as little as two dollars a month. I gibbey that's enough of the house. Keeping lets us get into this crazy case of Donald harvey. Be bizarre. Am I be taught- I might be talking lightly. When I say crazy case, I mean you know what jumped out to me? Was you look at the guy? He, by all accounts, useless, kaliko, low, mild, mannered, almost meek, looking nurse, but. He becomes known as the angel of death, an racks up a victim toad. All that. depending on who you believe tat, who you believe Could range anywhere from thirty's in all the way up to one point. He said seventy right, so I mean that he either way

even on the once he was convicted, he's a very prolific serial killer. Yes, but says we dig into this, find out in his methods and reasoning behind some of this and one thing that's different about him. Is he basically used his job right as a nurse to do most of his killing. But the one thing you ve gotta see a picture this guy and we'll have pictures up on oliver social media outlets- this is to me the proverbial, don't judge a book by it's cover I mean. Would you agree? Oh absolutely, I think that's why he was so successful for such a long time is because you will never. He didn't look like a sewer no. I didn't know that. That's why my motto is no one and assume Everyone is a serial killer here

somebody mean that, because I think that, because I am sure, jordan or somebody beyond a pretty fast, but somebody get on that, so our let's start off and get a sound by of interaction between don harvey, and porter and I just want to give you. I just want to be able to hear what Donald harvey sounds like john. You now known, plants and used to do the settlers I know I'm in desert. He said I fantasised about taking you out and tie you down on top of an anthill and pouring honey all over you- and learning these units in July. in the eyes his eyes were dead

and I know he needs it. Every so often has a species we produce a monster. I was living in the eyes of wanted to kill me so much you're in the beginning is is dollar harvey. Sounds like he's just taken a head off above helium did get a very, very strange voice. Cargoes with his strange look, I think right and then what your hearing later is the the reporter yeah. I just I wanted to play that kind of towards the beginning. To give the nurse some frame of reference of No, they probably already seen the pictures is, will put those out ahead of time. It's discard, I gomer pile consumer serial killer. But were gomer pile just took out, took a head off in the helium yeah something like that. Yeah, it's a weird voice,

you, as always with. Let's start with the background, so Harvey is born and butler. your higher and nineteen. Fifty two for you and me butler county is very close, very close, not far away from us at all but dad doesn't stay in ohio very long because his parents move to boon vill Kentucky, which is small, community near the appalachian mountains. in an interview that I saw his mother, whose name was gaudy, she said did that Donald was brought up in a very loving environment. Donna was, you know just as great kid, a very good boy and the principle of his elementary school back that up as well? It said that he attended this elementary school for a year so that you know that's gotta, be a pretty small community right. So

this principle was quote saying: Donnie was a very special child. He was always clean. In a well dressed in his hair trim, neatly She she went on said. You know he was very happy child very sociable very well liked by other children. In other words, gives she just ever saw anything out of the ordinary with our hard yeah. He was good student. Do right, yeah he's a Yet we have when he gets under tie school, but that's not the whole story. No. Because you know both you and I digging little deeper found alive. Of information, which can say a lot found

some information about some very traumatic experiences that he has as a child, and yet we go back and talk about. That's it that's become, are repeating theme right right in these podcast exactly this I mean so. We know that his uncle and his uncle's friend would abuse him. and this and they start at the age of four. So we got to know what that does, but he, even even before that before that his father dropped him on his head six months old, where these little soft spot thing had were only formed, and we ve talked about that before head had trauma as youngster and how that plays in two later actions by some of these killers.

These are more than coincidences that we keep doing these podcast episodes and things or that come up are head trauma. Abuse traumatic experiences is not is not just a coincidence right, you know. So drop. The six months old at five years already falls off the track and has twelve sent a meteor long gash in the back of his head, and so that's like two separate occasions format the brain injuries probably and then like you talked about disabuse, knew at the age of four by the uncle on his mother's side, right

and then a year later, another abuse sexual abuse starts happening by an older neighbour. So I mean he's not being abused by one person he's been abused by two separate, bull and one other thing I read before. I want to talk about the abuse a little bit more, but there's lot of things. I read that said he had a happy childhood. You know his mom said good things about him Then you find some interviews that talked about you know his mom, bringing for strange men alive when his dad was not around and he saw Out of this, so I think he went through a lot of crazy stuff as a child, but let's get back to to the sexual abuse, because we know that has to that had to have played a big factor had to do, but one of the craziest parts about it is.

Both of these relationships, I shouldn't com relationship, its sexual abuse, both both of these sexual abuse cases they go on until Donald is twenty years old, these full grown man by the time, the sands- I don't know if you read this gave her what you take on. It is but in later interviews down here, If would say that by the age of eleven or twelve I forget which one, but he started to become almost hesitate to say this cause people are going to get pissed, but the you know he said this. He started to become more of a participant in these interactions. Well, maybe that was his way to get through. I don't know I just never. You know if his I quote was if his arm

was gonna have fun. He was gonna, have fun to air. That's pretty and he and he was- he was gay yeah, and am I assume that maybe this is about the time or at some point during this time is when he probably realised that he that he was going. But I doubt when really stuck with me, where you know you in about the kid at eleven twelve. I mean number one shouldn't be put in a spot where his being sexually abused at all, but number two. He's later claiming that at this in his life, he was starting to be a willing participant in and You know you can look at a lot of people that abuse other people and if you go back in their history, you find that such a good amount of those people

we're abuse when right when I have when they were kids also, so the site just cite a single continue, but I did I didn't. Pointed out to me. It was I couldn't find And him saying that on tape, but I read that in several different places for butter he's got off, If things go on now he does. But you can't tell me just the stuff: we talked about already din didn't warp his mind, some have it, it had to have met he would also lay. Say in in interviews when he was older, that he liked the fact that the old, neighbor, who was abusing here, would give him money when they quote played around so as we know, he did a lot interviews later after because even talks, it and later bauer. For eighteen years, people controlled his life right control what he did and then finally, he decided to take control of the outcome of his own destiny and that's country.

down the road ahead it. So I may just we'll just run through a little bit more background me, like you, said he got these and bees and high school buddy. You dropped out pretty early right. He didn't say anything belong at all, which is kind of a mother. In a similar thing that we have, we seen with a few other serial killer there. He got asian bees with probably what was little effort, so I am saying, he's probably was average to above average until it had above average entirely. I guess he got bored with school and he ends up dropping out and he moved to Cincinnati, just down the road from us and he ends up taking a job at a fact So he's laid off from this planet. Nineteen. Seventy adds right at this time where's mom, causing and says

Danny danny you gotta come back home to kentucky because your grandfather said no, I said dummy twice. I did and so harvey spending so much time with his grandfather, had marry my hospital tat, which I think is a catholic hospital. I think it is because the nuns they start to get to know him he's in there all the time visiting and they eventually ask him if he wants to work. There is an orderly. This is where story just is so crazy with so many twists and turns, but here you ve got an eighteen year old kid whose, and They asked him to be an orderly note, no problem. He starts work the next day. What's he doing is an orderly he's changing bedpans that seemed normal right.

and then had talked about him, inserting catheters and passing out. Medication. I didn't seem normal to me at all. I don't know back then, if there in Kentucky. That was no way, they don't really have a lot of the year, regulations in place in canada. as in that it be o k for some women no training. MRS Aigner enough there to be in our an re. What now dan yeah so to put a catheter m because faction and stuff like that can occur right I mean nineteen. Seventy two me doesn't seem like at long I mean it is a long time ago, but doesn't seem like that long ago. It's not the stone age no, but he got an eighteen year old kid with no medical training and you're saying here's a catheter ticket. You know for some years ago, so it was a lot of a lot has changed

Take this and Mr Johnson's johnson, who ha be mister johnson Johnson may are there would be missed mrs jensen. Now I mean we're making light of it, but it's it's the fact of it. Just that blew me away to think that an eighteen year old kid and they're saying do this: in they're, giving him access to This medication sure yeah. That today would you know, I'm sure it was controlled substances oh and absolute. Today, yeah, I mean, I think, the nurse they have to sign it, the safes and you gotta put in the code right, so so when I read damages it's it's crazy. But this is the point where things start to turn: dark rabies it because it's only two months into this job at the hospital when dollar harvey commits, is first murder and I dont know that will be able to talk about

these murders, khazars of damn many that he committed, but they are the first one. donalds working the evening shift and he goes check on this stroke, victim name, logan, evans and The harvey, obviously in later interviews, the man rubbed shit on harvey's face, so he rubbed feces Oliver yeah we're ok, shit. We're But this really angered dom pray lost control yet he loses control and in up smothering this. Mr Evans, where the sheet of blue plastic in a pillow some kind, a combination of the two, what was freaky, was it it said afterwards? He listened to the man's heart, be with the staff stethoscope. Now

this guy even hasn't stethoscope. I don't know, but he listened to his heart, beat until it stopped ass. That's freaky, that's freaky, but also think is freaky that afterwards, that cleans up. The patient gets him in the shower. You know I mean to me that's freaky to that. He goes to that, but that's his right. That's how his covering up right. So he cleans up the patient. He takes a shower yeah, but there's obviously there's feces and all that, but you right in and then you just go, he walks out need, tells the nurses the what had not what happened right that the man is past has passed away and no one questioned there was no questions like a normal event. Oh yeah, that happens right now. We talked about harvey being called the angel. death and he was given the nickname angel of death,

and he would always claim after he was caught, that he was a. He wasn't serial killers. Much is he was a mercy killer. You killed people that were suffering and in this but obviously this is no mercy killer. This guy was not dying. He wasn't putting this guy of his misery. He just got really upset and killing we're going to see that and in some other cases in other work This is where he did you put folks out. I must put folks out of their misery, but people that were suffering really bad and probably closer to death, and he killed them. this wasn't anything like that. True crime, all the time is sponsored by better help. You know to know yourself can be a lifelong process, especially because we're always growing in change. I know not the same person at fifty that I was at twenty

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hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot, com, slash d, cat or text, t c, a t t to five hundred five hundred the the second person- and this was, I think, the very next day and correct me. If I'm wrong, As you know, you- and I always have our own notes. We do our own research, but that was pretty. I think it was a within a few weeks, but I had the very next day he accidently killed somebody early because by using the wrong catheters, okay and so, this. One probably was not even so. We need a tent. Was not there yeah. He didn't mean to kill this guy right, but he was just bad at his job. as nation, your kid that shouldn't have been using a catheter on people in the first place and then Like you said a couple weeks go by and then I think he does It is first mercy kill. I have it is some elizabeth wyatt, apparently she

I have been telling him she was ready to die and she told him that she wished she could die. So he turned her oxygen supply very low and in about four hours you know she was dead and a nurse and nurse founder and we're gonna see a lot of different ways that dog harvey killed people but oxygen tanks was a big one right, you control. The flow of flow of any good could shut it completely off, but so far so it is called a couple people. maybe one guy by accident, if I had my facts straight, nobody has suspected anything now. One of the things that we have to talk about is. He is in an environment where none one he has complete access to patients

the time she's alone, with right, he's alone, with patients right And these are a lot of very sick people who. could die on their own, possibly so, there's a lot of opportunity for him to kill and get and for people not to question it. I guess as as yet I'm getting up for for a killer he's in the perfect, perfect environment. And I think after these first couple he realizes that hey nobody's gonna catch me. in this they haven't even question. No basic question in the fact that these people died so he starts to ramp up in, I think within.

Less than a year. He kills what twelve to fourteen people give or take yeah at this kentucky hospital alone in less than a year, and am you know we don't have to talk about every one of the but again a couple more, he killed by accident one- was very significant and for sure that I want to talk about her in july of nineteen seventy. So this is still nineteen. Seventy right now we're talking about and dollar harvey. killed a man name then gilbert the reason why this one was significant was because it was his first premeditated murder. It wasn't because he got angry, it wasn't because he was bad is job and accidently did sought me shouldn't have.

this was in and not a mercy, killing Ben and donald get in a fight. And somehow I dont know how does I don't know how old this been character was. If you eighty one yeah he's eighty one years old news older, I wasn't sure of his exact age yeah, but he beats the shit out of him. Hits him over the head with a bat right, nazi him bed painted face. So knox dollar harvey out who, by all accounts, was not a very big guy. I I thought he was a burglar, some like that any and got scared and any move ahead, knocked him out so anyway. Obviously that may donald harvey mad annie. He waited until later at that night, when Mister gilbert was asleep. and he goes in and again he's using the catheter and use day. When I read was a

email sized number twenty now. That means nothing to me because, but our nurse nurses out there will know yeah what that means. If you're a nurse, I'm sure you will So, instead of a smaller number eighteen for men, that's that's exactly how it read the research. What he did then was was neck was crazy and I don't know if you, if you want to talk about that, what about the coat hanger, yeah yeah, that's that's yeah, but so he so he stuck a coat hanger through the catheter which resulted in the puncture and in the infection would set in as a result of that, it's all disturbing Alright, you can't make this stuff up like if you were writing a book, and you said I'm going to write this into act number two: it this kind of stuff is hard to make up and what the guy dies. What two three days afterwards, because the result of the info,

right that occurs in his what is bladder anti now that he is coat, hanger went in and punctured his bladder or bower, and you know he ended up. You know going into shock and a coma and, and he died. I think, like you, two three or four days later, but all ruby does is take out the code hangar switch the cat there's back to duration idea right again, nobody ever nobody thinks of any has been a question it down by ever says a word again. He kills. You know the next person with the oxygen tank method, the person after that he killed. They didn't just in turn the auction on this one. He said he wanted to end the patient struggles because they were having a hard time breathing.

But ultimately the guy ends up dying of a massive heart attack so than one. I think, there's one more after that with the faulty oxygen tank- and this is this one. You know he commented that this lady smelled mad- and that was one of the reasons why He wondered at. He wondered at yeah. This lady was suffering from leukemia. Now wish, suffering. I mean she suffering from leukemia, but was she physically Frank, I'm sure she was sure and in she could at the smell, could have been the the chemo key, a cabin yeah, I'm a man who knows, but it most likely could have been. The chemo drugs

I a lot of different things, but he decided on his own and her suffering. I guess the point I was trying to make was: I don't know how much she was suffering. You know it's like a play on words. She was suffering from leukemia for sure right, but was she suffering to the point where she wanted to die? I don't think she was telling people that I think he he assumed that, Well, he didn't like the way she smelled and decided to end her life yeah. So this one was hit. He first tried to killer with the whole plastic and pillow method that he had used in his very first murder. but at some point I guess another nurse or somebody comes in and interrupt seem. I don't know what they thought. He was doing what they saw him doing that again. Nobody ever connection with any of this report's seem right, but here to stop because this person interrupting so yes

wait a little bit and then he has to use the fault, the oxygen tank method, but ultimately kills the woman that way Now we move on to december, and I won't talk about Margaret Harrison a little bit. Because this is where, by my accounts, give this is the first one where we started messing around with pain medication get into the pharmaceuticals. My dear so it's almost like the was a board. Was he thinking of different ways turn to try to murder people? I don't know you can't you get in this guy's head everything that I read said that you know he's been evaluated a number of times throughout the years I mean he's sitting not very far from where I live right now you know it's a twenty minute drop

from from where we are in the studio to wear this guy's new homes where his home as yet. But at this point I think, he's permitting and he's using demurral, morphine coding, here's another one where he gives, of this woman all these drugs- and sitting there and he's monitoring her pulse, just like he did with the guy where he was checking his heart rate with the stethoscope he's monitoring her polls and waiting for it to drop to zero. I mean that's it's just morbid. I mean, if he's doing this and you know, he's intimated. I just find it so hard to understand how nobody knew what was going on that

That's what blows me way. Well, you know not, because I want people to get bored but will just go through. You know smothered where the pillow used a faulty oxygen tank again faulty gas tank again overdose of morphine. I mean this only takes. To march. We said he started work when so tat. I may that's agus demarche of ninety so anyone yeah we're in march of nineteen. Seventy one, approximately ten months or so and he's already killed more than one among here, and not strange, think they'd have some chicken bout. I mean, I know people going to pass away, in hospitals and nursing riot needs a lot of work to do, but it seems I thought that someone was said man we're losing a lot of people Where every time we lose one donald harvey's involved. This weird an eighteen year, old donald harvey is,

was in the room exactly the right before died or something you bought it. Somebody would coup in. I don't know, but It brings us up to march and This is when he leaves he decides to to leave the hospital. I mean, there's a reason he leaves right march, thirty. First, nineteen, seventy one. What I have account of is that he's he's drunk and he's disorderly, but he's already left the hospital his last day was on march twenty seven okay, so this is so he so this is, after he leaves the hospital. Yet what you're gettin to his? According to my count. His last day was march. Twenty seven, ok, you go ahead with the march thirty first cause. I think, that's a very interesting he is he's he's he so he's drunk in disorder lie, and he was arrested for burglary and wise being question about

crime, dart babbling, incoherently about how he committed merce, had think he said, he'd kill. I killed fifteen people at the hospital. I'm guessing. It was so bizarre out there that the police probably is thought to disguise on somethin gaze pray This guy's drunk it wrongly aim here who would kill fifteen people that they also check it out? Probably Where do they die in? I don't know because they could have we found out that he worked at the hospital and they could have looked into it. A little bit question for quite a while and in, but at the end of that they just there's stuff in that they fine there. They just don't believe in god. I don't believe only at the sum to correct

a few weeks later. He goes on trial for the you know, the berkeley charges and you know he pleads guilty, and you know they. They they reduced down a petty theft and like he just pays a fine and yeah walks away from that then yeah and then I think around that time, and then he thinks about getting into the military and he does what won't you say it won't tell us, I mean he he he joins the united states, air force service there for less than a year and he gets his discharge and well a year later march of us, seventy two. They don't really say why he was discharged, but the rumor that time right is that you know his. Will you call him a commander superiors? You know they learned of some confessions to the kentucky police and at that time, that they just do not want to deal with any of of this in the future with him. So they went ahead, released him from the military.

I think that was one of the reasons and and one of the other thing That I read was that while he was in the air force, he had tried to kill himself. He had depression with an overdose of nyc. Will he tried to kill him sick, commit suicide, a bow. In your diving into some of those mental issued right here

actually, you know, had had some severe depression and and some some different type of I don't know if it's what type of mental illness he had, but he had severe depression for sure absolutely added. I think he at one point he tried to set a fire in a bathroom of an empty apartment building and just sit there and fix he ate himself and he couldn't do it and now I think that was before he even joined. Therefore I think that might have been back when you were talking about when he got the burglary charge or right right around that time. But after he you know after he gets out of the air force, he tries to kill himself. with an overdose of a couple of different drugs. All of this after he gets out of the air force's. His behaviour justice is crazy and it all ultimately leads him too.

Being sent to the mental ward of the vienna hospital yeah for tree mammy. I think his parents at that to say hey here. You can't stay here anymore, summers every two right yeah, so it goes iranian way. Talks. to control his inner demons. His frog northwest I maybe he didn't say, a frog demons like BT, cable. It so, but he's got these inner demons are speak until him unable to control them. He's dead siemens, so I made, but there is another thing right: we talk about the abuse as a child. We talk about. You know you talked about had drama now. Organ enter demons and men possible? Meanwhile, illness, depression and yeah? No, I mean there's, there's it all ties in yeah. He's got he's got a lot of stuff,

so it said he so he stays in the mental war to make its psych from July. Seventy two two august and of august so they of that year, but then he minute himself again a few weeks few weeks later right because he try to commit suicide again at the hospital and you know it didn't work, and then they had a place them in restraints them mental hospital. I know was around a few weeks in indiana Dylan twenty one. Electronic electro shock therapy treatments on how this is back when they used to do alive. Electro shock therapy yeah when I thought that that stuff, what when they thought it was worked. I guess he went through twenty one of those

and then it was october of that year mid october, that he was real released from the hospital so and and what what's he do after that? Well either way. I'm gonna laugh about this. Well, what first to us, where the timings released, don't forget. His mom gaudy was really disappointed with the hospital for releasing them because he didn't she did take. Her son was ready to be released, but yet so so just just just a few months. After again is life back in order right, ye starts work in it. they nurses aid it damn gyre hospital cardinal hill rain. So we talked about this in another episode about how,

people we got so people. I hear that can't find a job but disguised, kill, em killing people guess I'm back. Then they didn't do a lot of employment searches right here. He just me just got out of the mental ward the vienna hospital and goes is able to you, know, get this job at cardinal hill and then a and he works at like two or three different hospitalized will say that time, he's working part time, cornhill he's working part time at a couple, a deaf ear, election and other lexington good samaritan hospital, and you know, well. First of all, they say he doesn't kill anybody during this time. No right he's he's at tour we differ in hospital. I don't know what's going on, but somehow is able to keep the urge. Well, that's why They say there speculation that he didn't I have the same type of access, unfettered access to patients that he had when he was at marry me

right and that's why he kept moving around at sea because my he was trying to get another job where he would be able to give that. But again he doesn't have hit a nursing degree he's not. I know he has no medical training. What however, other than the ten months he spent at term mary amount as an orderly right, but I think that the others there is two things you can say he was able to keep at it hey where you can say he never had the opportunities that he had while he was at the at the marymount to carry out these things that wanted to do you know. One of the things I want to talk about is weak. Mention that the doll harvey is a homosexual, but he has a number of relationships- and it seem like- no problem

forming relationships, keeping relationships. He I read it. He had in a one that lasted ten months. He had one that lasted five years in which the heathen lived with. You know this other guy and so the reason I bring it up- is he's not alone during this time. Part of this timeframe that we're talking about here, the loner in the basement no type of individual social yeah he's out there. forming relationships and keeping them so, but I did want to bring

after relationships cause. That's something. That'll player come into play a little bit later. I dunno gives I think, we're getting up to no nineteen. Seventy five and harvey moving back to to cincinnati- and this is where you know he gets a job at the to the Cincinnati v. A medical hospital yeah he's working the night shift there, and this is where he would spend, I think, the next ten years and he would ultimately murder at least fifteen patients twenty. He he's a nursing assistant right. He goes there as a nursing assistant, Yes, and there are some I made us a few different things mean he's working in housekeeping he's workin. Somehow he gets a job as the cardiac catherine station tec is always usually f interfere, is at an end

also you know assisting with some autopsies so which I think he probably felt omair, but Eventually, army will pray talk about, but he becomes like the more supervisor at some point. Unlike ass early ass, this later on down the road, but but he starts killing people pretty quickly, because I think at at at this the hospital he finds that you ve got the acts. That access is right right. I think all that bullshit about being able to his demons and check. That's why I really think that was bull. I'd a lean more towards the fact that he still the urge. and the only reason why he did Lee shit is because he could he just you know, because he wasn't killing people on the streets right here. At this point he had only killed people

that were weak in the hospital and sick already, and maybe that was due to nature- I don't know- maybe he was too afraid to or just had no desire to try to kill anybody. Other than up to this point, writer become right, yeah we're in now is in ohio again right off the bat he's using that old, reduce oxygen flow method. he killed. A man was never indicted for that one and that that's why we say we don't what the number is we, finally know how many murder, reason and things he was charged with and and confessed to. But he also faces at some point to a much much larger number. He does At some point, there were three or four different people that I'd in the word and later

I will say that he thinks he had something to do with their death, but he doesn't remember for sure, did he kill these four people maybe and it just because he had killed some the people he couldn't remember, I dont know because one of the things I read mike was that, and I think they he kept day diary of the journal, a pretty meticulous diary of them with no on each of his cry right so for him to say that he wasn't sure He had anything to do with it. doubt. It doesn't sound like. I think you don't keep data notes and not I write on summer. I think you keep among all because you're trying to track you're his in his mind. You know he's becoming this and maybe going back and reliving it and reading the details and maybe that

gives him a rush as well. That'd be that'd, be tk yeah, but he's not going to kill four people and somehow forget to write in his I read the and its programme His diary Amini hides it and from understand he. He hid it behind a picture frame and that's where you know the police eventually find that diary. But, yes, I I. I definitely think he knew how many he knew that he bet he did. What at each of these vital, as I think that too would jump to nineteen. Eighty because we got to move forward in time or so much information here, he began he begins dating a guy on and off and after a fight We re retaliate against this person by putting arsenic in his ice cream and this was a significant act, because it was the this person outside of the hospital that Donald had tried to harm.

up until this time he he'd only and things to people that were in the hospital and keep him mine for all these years. Somehow he was able to amass tons of arsenic and cyanide and yeah that definitely comes and later we're. So may he finally seat so he's these finding ways to bring this stuff home outside of the hospital He had to have been stealing it by little or maybe chunk pay chunk. However, right this, this whole time

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together and and this relationship with wood go on for a while, but it would who cause a lot of friction at one point, Donald finds out that Carl's been going to the work every monday and and fooling around with other men, and he starts feeding carl small doses of arsenic to make himself on sunday so that he can go to the party? on monday and play around, I mean as guys it's just it's devious right I mean he must have been just thinking, devious thoughts, all the time. Oh yeah I mean he was, I can't make sense of it. I wish I could, but I guess you'd have to be

in that state, to be able to remaining a census on that same time. Right in this is how his temper was right. Was he got he an argument with his his and and charmer hurt Helen Helen met metzger may! Yet? yeah, so he gets an argument with her and he he laces. Whenever beverages with the hepatitis right, he used to have a Titus sara. I don't know how he gets it. It was on that. I don't want to. I dunno why I'm laughing, because that's not fun though, but so he knew you know She nearly dies from that and then so this. If this was a different neighbour and then he gets in a fight with Helen and he puts arsenic and one of her pies, and then she, eyes a week later at the hoss hell I mean so man and the one the one you were talking about the hepatitis b that The reason I laughed and it's not funny

the reason that he did. That is because he thought- Somehow in his mind at this woman- and this was a woman was trying to split up his relationship with coral how this woman's trying to- I don't know how. But that's what he thought and, like you said, poisoner with have a hepatitis b and and I read even even stole like some type of trade infected with aids, like he said some blood. There was infected with aids, hiv infected with hiv and positive. So I'm mean he and first for how to get in all this stuff out of the hospital cyanide arsenic, Hepatitis b. Vials of HIV the positive blood in it does no one between psych fees upset with you you're dead, yeah. It's not like I'm upset with you

oh yeah, let's sit down in yeah, you have taller than you know. Media's goes right off right off the edge, so talked about diane You went over the Helen, metzger murder, which you know it was a big one that take that that took us into three, and this is where he kills Carl's father as bizarre and tries to kill the mom to write. He tries to take our margaret and plays on success. with her and lucky for her that you know that he's not you know he breaks it often, Carl, because I think she would have been she would have been killed as well. Ass, a he kills car Carl's father thar snake and then he kills car brother in law. Down I read was an accident. I guess I had been using some wood alcohol. all to remove adhesive labels, but he had

solution in some type of vodka bottle and when cool his brother in law came over. He party my drink from this vodka bottle and, and the sky was sick for weaken. He suffered a heart attack, so may or may not have been an ax yeah. You don't know what this guy you dont know, which ones are real looking at is pass. You would you they're, all real right exactly if nobody, if he didn't, have his the a record. He did maybe say off that it was an accident he did but I just assume that he means to kill. Everybody was I'm too, and that was eighty four, so that moved it eighty four, when when he killed cross brother in law and harry, he kills a few other people, but of no. He killed an ex boyfriend because zalm as donald aimed this, Sir James Peluso had asked down

to help him out if he ever became unable to care for himself. So I guess you know this james peluso was ill. Donald, make seamen a daiquiri with arsenic and some pudding. With arson. Ages got arsenic and cyanide everywhere, where they need is keeps in his pocket in case he needs it, but again here I don't know whether to believe him or not. Now said his death had been expected. Because he was having a bunch of cardiac problems so there was no autopsy performed right so maybe one of the reasons why he still doing some things in and not getting caught and then an eighty five. She kills again over coral. He kills a neighbor s wilson, Wilson apparently believe that karl was cheating him on his utility bills, so cloudy killer MIKE he put arsenic into

add Wilson's pepto bismol wow again, Let me just get into my pocket full of right course. El arsenic would make main interest. And again I don't want to make light of it, because I feel bad furred. These victims, but at the same time- and mister Wilson probably suffered because he'd it took him like five days to die so those problem if an agonising five days of this arsenic poisoning in the end. This is where I think, right after this is when I talked to you earlier about. He somehow promoted to morgue supervisor I don't know why I don't know what qualifications he had or well qualifications. You need a tap and nineteen eighty five, but it would seem to me that you would need more than what dollar harvey would have possessed right exactly because, unless he had

back to school, which I didn't read anything about a hanger and how could he have? He did technically didn't finish high school. Yes, I don't know how he got promoted up the chimney just well liked her, where he killin just so I really don't right- there was something really big that happens. Not too long after this in July. Of eighty five in and that's when you leaving work, because right now, at the vizier consent now he's leaving work, the security, hours notice that donalds kind of acting suspiciously, and they search his Jim bag and find out that he's he's carrying a thirty eight calibre pistol he's. Also, got some hypodermic needles, of course, as urging gloves a cocaine

spoon which I'm not sure how is differ, from a regular spoon, various medical tax. Here's the big one she's got to a cop box which we have talked about here, but I am a biography on a yeah. That's a big one yeah I didn't know you were there was a lot of stuff about him in the occult that I kind of left out he was kind of dabbling in the call to one or he tried the people to let participate and in some of these he's here. They would. It comes up again in his life about them magic and one point he joined the neo nazi national socialist party was doing just a lot of weird stuff, triumphant somewhere. I guess and later on. He would claim that he wasn't sympathy,

or of the neo nazis, but he was their gathering information for his friends that that wanted to try to destroy the party disguises list biography that he's got on cyril Or what do you know about them? It's I mean it's he's not really one of the well known ones. No, no, and actually I his name was like charles so bra. I wasn't sure how he pronounced his sobhraj Sobhraj yeah. lifted out, because I didn't want to miss pronounce it and get caught a dumb ass, but now that you ve brought it up, and I say I've had to try it right now. I actually enjoy it. When people call me a dumb ass in social media. It makes me happy you're, so So what are they do with them when they do it in fun? Yet so got with all this, but that's the crazy as part of this whole thing don't find em fifty bucks for the far right and as far as is job, they don't even firing

No, I mean he's given the option to resign because they let him resign. So it's not. On his where he doesn't go on his work record, but that that's the key right we keep saying how's this this guy, who keeps haven't all these weird scrapes with the law and is just kinda. lying by. How does he didn t after job. What this is how you would get, because these things aren't following him, because instead the hospital doing what they probably should have done, which is fire there? I don't know when evidence they had, but in reading it he had a lot of crazy stuff with in any the gun, which that by itself should have been grounds. Fur, Surely this point in time we're gonna hospitals right, you didn't call me, surely right now Surely the unjust blankets? Please don't call me earlier so this point. You think he be done, we're gonna hospitals. He had been met.

in you right in and not giving up our professions, but in the professions that wherein, if we were to do some of these things and now granted we're talk. This is thirty years late, sir, but even back then I think being fired for reason that probably should have been enough to keep him from getting a job in the same city, because, what he does. He just goes to drake memorial, which is still in cincinnati, really should have blacklisted from knowing the city but from the industry now in today he would I wish I could see back. Then maybe you moved the phoenix arizona they no your record, maybe, but he's he's just a ass, the city and I dont know how far drake is from the ba, but it doesn't matter to same city. I give you so at this point, we're up to where harvey. Urging his new job. That door

memorial in Cincinnati again, No suspicions raised about the reasons I he left his previous job, so really quality background checks, yeah, even if they did a background check. would they have gotten me hit because he wasn't fired, and true right, he legally to resign yeah. So, legally, what could you know His former hospital even have sad and he's always been good at doing this. He works in he. He he he good, into their system by commissioners part time right, and then he worked his way into the full time as it she's done. Add a couple of em worry. He comes in his part time we've taken, the stuff that nobody really wants to do the really crappy hours and he works himself into a fulltime job, and why do you think he does at all? I think it's to keep suspicion

well that plus, is it also because of what we talked about? Is he you know doing part time to see why He can get in how absolutely more more so that I think he's gettin. Any he's scanning he's taken them Sorry he's like a lay of the land figuring out. What can I get you can't I much? What can access what kind of freedom are they gonna? Let me have you I agree so then I mean even for days later he kills another patient. The exact same way, Seven days later I mean these this. He speeding up he's goin fast, yet he's on a role and again and nobody is so far- is putting anything together this time killed a man by putting rat poison in his pudding. Died of an apparent heart attack took so one thing: I've taken away from all this is: don't eat the pudding and hospitals and nursing home. That's what I'm taken away: one

one of the things I respect- nurses, my moms and are absolutely here and if she's listenin to this- which she better be high, mom she's a great nurse, but this guy was scary, yeah and there's a couple reasons for that. It's because I think for me is the trust that you have to play in nurses and doctors, and I mean it was technically a nurse origin, see aid yeah. I don't think he was ever nurse. I think he's a nurse's aide right and there's great nurses aid out there. But but I mean anybody in the hospital because you're you're in a comp use in sure situation that got access to you you're in a compromise they write, so you're putting your trust in the whole hospital system. I'll put it that were exactly and and obviously you can have somebody bad in any scenario any industry any any any type of work. You're gonna have great people in europe.

I have a bad apples. Are we're not trying to scare anybody away from hospitals are especially make so she found the regime's anytime soon. I love you. I might get a call from my mom pierre, you again, the next person he does poison, this was one day later. He is really, you knows really going fast, now on? May second, nineteen? Eighty six. This is kind of a big deal because he's having a lot of relationship trouble with car. He stole with Carl Carl still there yet carstone picture, but they ve been having a lot of trouble there arguing alot Donald is become parents, boy that car is somehow out to get him, which is crazy. If you think about it, she's kill everybody and poisoning people that he thinks is out to getting right he's out to get everybody, but now he thinks cross out to get him avers here

yeah, but either way the two of them breakup, and this is in may of eighty six that very same day he kills a woman cyanide three days later, he gets an employee that his employee evaluation. He was rated as good on six out of the ten criteria and acceptable on the other four okay, so you know he's middle of the road or halfway decent average, an average review. He got an average review. I didn't say anything about the fact that he'd been killing people right about averaging about once every three days or so he weights about month and then he kills and individual with arsenic, and then this is where it starts to go arson

cyanide, cyanide, cyanide, arsenic, he's, basically just going back and forth about every week or two weeks, he's killin somebody to his reckoned up like tat some people are mean. Is it just its rays unions point in time I got so. What do we see he started. Does one do the timeline started drake in april of eighty six? So it's it's. Very similar to his last job in about ten months. You know he'd, racked up fifteen. Twenty twenty kills twenty twenty some yeah. It all adds a lot that that. So that is a lot like you said. The cyanide is like his choice it's a lot, because it's in this is not a, and we may do this case. That simple,

but he's not a long haul trucker who is picking up people in different parts of the country in different jurisdiction, right yeah. The this is have a lot of people in a short period of time dying at one would all have similar cause. I mean they don't know what cyanide ripe, but it's heart related or whatever, but that's just a lot of people being checked out of a facility in a very short period time when somebody new just start working there yeah, you would think, and and again I don't know how many people in a given period of time would I my hospital like this, but it just seems like at some point the sooner than it did there would have been some suspicion raise you think. So Now we're getting delight march of eighty seven and he kills a couple of people he killed a man on the sixth of marge and a woman on the seventh. So this is backed the back

he kills them both the same way and its using, and I know what a butcher this, but it's the attach all that's what I'm gonna call it also deck at all her deck deca call I like that, might be it, but it's an it. He's ever mover antennae used with a cloth me bags hooker. So basically he fed both of these people. This and he's ever. Over and somehow poisoned dumber killed them that way, and how did he know that would kill him. I don't know the man he it at a he actually fed it to him. The woman put it through her one of her tubes, as well as put some inner orange juice, and so again here You know he went cyanide, cyanide, arsenic for a lot of the time and now experimenting with weird. What are you fine and the removal of the medical care which he doesn't have

two because we know he's got enough cyanide to poison the whole hospital. He seems like he's just doing this for kicks at this point, I mean he's been doing this for kicks now, he's just trying to the different see how it works, but now we're getting into the end right were coming to the end of the dollar harvey saga. This

his last kill and it's a man named John Powell will spend a little bit more time on this, and John Powell was brought into drake memorial. He had suffered severe head trauma from a motorcycle accident and he was there quite awhile. He was in a coma. I think he was on a respirator for six seven, eight months, something like that, but pau kept having bout after bout of pneumonia and you know all the while his you know his wife is by his side. Doctors can't figure out. What's going going on, they can't seem to fight off this pneumonia and eventually power succumbs to this number in dies and the one thing, and I guarantee that this is some donald harvey didn't think about, but under oh hi law, a motorcycle accident always has to have an autopsy, because now

these other people, to my knowledge, had autopsies. They were either the early are they illnesses which didn't require? Didn't it didn't, seem a suspicious that they died. The profound this doctor layman. He conducts the autopsy on on John pow and as soon as he makes the first incision this smell of bitter almonds fills the room, apparently so strong its pain. fall to the nose in an almost knocked out, and so how bazaars is right so what he smells in the scientific world they say only sixty percent of humans can smell that. Luckily, he was one of them, because I've ever ever somebody else. It did that the fort the forty per somewhere in the forty four yeah. They wouldn't never knew tat. This guy was poisoned, which is crazy when you think about it that this is

such a strong smell here and in order that they say cannot people out, but only sixty percent of the people can now your dream? Genetic either. Have it or you don't have the ability to smell it, and in this case they ash even interview him any talks about it and he talks about how lucky you know he was to be able to smell is so because if he d the continuous. How long does I mean. Obviously we know this is the. This is white brings down the harvey, but if it doesn't work out that way hey how many more years and how many more victims, because you know he's not going to stop people like this, don't just stop on there I mean we know he loves cyanide, arsenic, all that stuff, and I we we know it's, because it prevents the brain and the heart from getting oxygen, and he takes some kind of perverse pleasure in

watching, but they ve taken there last year. So anyway, doktor layman knows right away cyanide, since it off to samples of toxicology, its confirm that its cyanide, Cincinnati police departments contacted and lace homicide. They start they launch a false investigation. Now what I read gibbons, you tell me what you think. The first suspect was his wife, which is normal. That is normal right and she, when she was, the first suspect and and that's what they do right. I mean if, if you showed up, you know dead tomorrow, they're going to look at your wife as number one suspect as well. They should and probably mean number two yeah so but yeah. So that's what they do

in and they'll go through that process with her yeah, I mean, of course, she denied it. Detectives asked her to take a poly polygraph and she does and she passes, because, obviously she didn't do it and so there next step is they be they begin to take part. grass from all the nurses and the medical assistance in the ward, and it just so happens that there's one person that calls in sick on the day that they're scheduled to do this polygraph, and that would be one donald harvey. Imagine that yeah, the police think that's odd. They look into it. They see that harvey was regular now he was regularly caring for MR pow, so all of a sudden near the antennas europe, so the police they go pick him up for questioning, and this is saturday march, seventh, nineteen, eighty seven and they have

download harvey in the room and their bout rate, a strap him up to polygraph machine and instead of right before, thereby way to do it. Harvey says I killed John pow just right out straight out He said it was easy. I just injected cyanide into the g tube and I'm all everything I read it was like harvey was he was now tasted. He wasn't even nervous. He was completely relaxed yet again and kind of like became. Bt came right, yes, nonchalant like just down it like this, when I got a bag. Oh I got my coffee. I want some are: obviously, if that me a new me or you and we had done something and we were getting, we were being interrogated by the police. May I would be

covering swayer governance, where nervous, probably shaky angry. But these people don't data have that same mindset in their mind doesn't function the same the same so, all in all, he confessed to, I think thirty three murders so that you had. I do in a that spans seventeen years, but as the days would go by, that number would grow to set yeah goes to fifty two and enough to say in writing all the way up to seventy. Please were sceptical their concerned about his mental stay, as they probably should be right. A guy just said: I killed seventy people they having checked out by I trust in and following that examination the, since ninety prosecutor's office makes the following statement.

Donald Harvey is saying competent, but as a compulsive killer, he builds up tension in his body, and so he kills people travel. That was the statement that they may be a hard. We keep saying it's mercy, killing, gray right and that's what he's telling his court appointed attorney the whole time. I said powell was in pain. He was breaking out in cold sweats. I just kept thinking. You know the guy's not going to get better. I just thought what I was doing was right, which is such bs and he he throws out some stuff right it did. He talks about a fascination, black, magic and tat. It's one thing we didn't dive into too much. There was a lot out there about him in the cold. I dont really think it had not only either. I think it was more of his weirdness turkish law and stuff yeah, because it didn't you didn't everything I read it didn't happen till after he had already started. Murdering right

in murder because of that yeah, because he was into the call. I think he got into the occult, because he was a weird little shit. That's just two cents, and I know you love this part, so the investigators they go to his house. I guess up until a certain point, you're all right after he was called he had been telling them a lie about where he had gotten the cyanide from you. I don't know if he said he was getting from the house

I do each time or whatever they go to his house. They open up a cupboard and he's got thirty pounds of arsenic and cyanide yeah thirty pounds. That's a lot man, so he must have just been taking it constantly cause. He was using a he was using it. The mounted he used to kill John powe was a milligram yeah, so I mean he'd had enough there to kill thousands and talons mean he could have gone on forever yeah. It could have been a Jim Jones kind of a thing. Ultimately, they strike a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to twenty four hospital murders. Now we know he killed a lot more people. This is in ohio right because right now he's dealing with Yeah just what's happening since an area, but he plead guilty to twenty four hospital murders gets twenty years to life. I think free to those right on. Then he gets one life sentence for that that lady neighbour, the friend, were

well yeah the neighbor, the neighbor lady, that he dog was yet he put the arsenic in her pie yeah. So he gets. He gets a license for for that as well, and you know, I think they look into it. They they investigated some other some of the other deaths for a couple of years, but eventually they they close it I mean the guy's got. You know, he's never to get outright consecutive life sentences yeah. Apparently it took a twelve hours for harvey to. Step by step tell every detail of his seventeen year. Killing history, the July ninth tapes back then take want to try to find their wish. I got there were some terms, sure, there's good audio well, I don't know where it is. Has allowed people are going to say: hey where's, the audio cars are used to that. In the end, it was the biggest issue with this would there's no

There was an audio out there there's a great interview that they apparently did at lebanon, correctional institution yeah. But it was a french media group media group and they everytime. He would talk, they would talk over right, so you couldn't pull any sound bites out of it, but it sounded like it would have been really good right. So again, twelve hours a little probably I bet you was similar to bt k. As you know, he just went down. Yes, why did? But again he had names dates. He even had some of their the patient's patient numbers. Right I mean in his memory yeah and plus the plus. The detectors did have his journal, yet right, so that they have that that accountability. Also,

It turned out that he kept saying he was a mercy killer but again, like we said that wasn't his motive, even though he tried to pass it off as though was made number one if you killed one or two people over a period of time that were dying so like it take care. What's his name, Jack Kevorkian right, he helped heating care. Technically. This is assisted suicide made. Nobody kills this many people, and we already know some of the facts- don't support that these were mercy there. was something I read that and I move he said this in our view or not, but there was something that said he wanted to be featured in the guinness book of rural wherever that too, that he wanted to be the number one. Yes, I I mean he's not, but he was working for when he sees prettier is high up there on the list yeah, but he's nowhere near number, one.

so after he's done with ohio, so then they taking to kentucky the aid me. I plead guilty to a council murdered there. One count of manslaughter get some eight more life sentences and twenty years further for the manslaughter. So the only other thing that I had didn't Nineteen, ninety one interview with the columbus dispatch and they yeah- and you touched on this a little bit earlier, but they asked him straight out. Why did you kill- and he says well- people controlled me for eighteen years and then I controlled my own destiny. I controlled other people's lives, whether they lived or died. I had that power to control. Then they asked him. What right did you have to decide that? And he says after I didn't get caught for the first fifteen. I thought it was my right eye.

it myself judge prosecutor injurie, so I played got so I mean to me this sounds like somebody that was, you know. We know he was abused. He was probably felt powerless in his life and this gave a tremendous sense of power to do why what he did I mean that's the only thing that I can wrap my head around the only other thing that I had was that it said his first scheduled parole. Hearing is set for two thousand forty, seven who believe ninety five, ninety five years old. So so until now step, the for my can gibbey stay safe and key your own time taken

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