The the the come everyone to episode, fifteen of true crime, all the time ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner and true crime, my gibson gibbey? How are you that a doing good man are you sure, you're free, I am frightened. Now, where we had a long work day, did and now we're in the studio recording you wouldn't have it any other way right. Where else what I wanna be probably home, with your family,

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most of you are familiar with Jeffrey dumb? We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted indonesia mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer, on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle ward takes us through the story, starting with Dahmer, his childhood and the first murder all the way through his death. The podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives, journalists and others close to the case to explore, or exactly what happened and how His killer came to be so. This sounds like a very deep dark and for me, anytime, you get never before heard audio from people very close to the case. Ahmet, listen to mind of a monster on pod cas spotify or wherever you get your pockets. Are I gibbs, Are you ready to tackle the case of christian longer? I am it's. it's a rough one sure guys scummy, scurvy anymore I think slow means yet

scummy is probably not harsh enough for this guy yeah he's a real pisa. You know what this is low heartbreaking. and really I mean to you to me. This has to be one of the worst things that any man can do. I think you- and I were talking for. We started comparing it a little bit too scott petersen lobe it, and you can make the case that this guy is worse than scott harrison absolutely absolute and that same lab is you. We know how bad scott pearson was but you know man is supposed to protect his family and this guy basically does the unthinkable right to his family. It's just on so many different levels from the trust factors to the absolutely. You know what what happens throughout the story that we're going to tell razor so many different levels. Oh yeah the term stuff. So, as we normally do, let's start with christians early life

britain Longo was born in michigan and nineteen seventy four He was raised by very strict Jehovah. witness parents. So, as pedant parents were Jehovah's witnesses, this is different. Then a lot of the cases that we talk about, though, because by all accounts the good childhood yeah from from statements he made in other people have made that basically, you know it was a good times in know, growing up and being involved with a church in good times and school, a major just no issues right, yeah, very strange riah, so I don't have any statistics on how many times you dropped on his head and I'll have any, but all red wedding. I dont have Stories about em animal view, yet torturing animals and that's something that maybe is well scott Petersen right was it. I think, the only other one that we did

yeah, where there wasn't some type of childhood yeah early on history, that people would look back and say well. This is the reason why this person did what they debray eddie the age, he was pretty painting in in the door to door ministry with the church. He was, I think, that's that's part of the Jehovah's witnesses, training that right that they receive from it to build the membership. Yet now I can't speak a lot about because I don't know much about, I don't either. You know one thing that was said was he didn't day until he was very late in his teens in today's world? Not that strange baby back then but now I think for rough, maybe for some by this, he's in a very strict Jehovah's witnesses household that that probably wasn't strange at all very pretty common. I would think it. I would think so

yeah, but he does get married at a very, very young age. He gets married nineteen years old there and so he marries Mary, Jane baker, ok, whose seven years older than him. mary or woman, yeah, guess nineteen The made her twenty six may teens young right in his young YA. Think back! you were nineteen o, especially you know not having dated not having you know her a lot of the experiences that most of us probably had grown up nation ship skills, getting skills things like that that you develop throughout our relationship, and maybe some of that will come into play here later on, but they they me Mary, jane bakers in the church as well, so that This time they meet is in a church in the church. Parking lot courtship lasted. I don't how long love at first sight, I've been too long because they got married when he was Eighteen years, all right now a theme: that's gonna come

in this case pretty much throughout is yeah they begin having money problems from the gecko number number one he's nineteen years old, so much money can possibly be making right she's twenty six, but I am not sure what she's doing at this point is not very good with money. Now, that's probably an understatement, because even for they get married. He goes out and buys her a three and a half carrot diamond ring on payment plan, I don't know how much our bad boy caused by this mistake number one. That's pretty expensive here, you know what is it three times your salary or what's the royale yeah yeah, and they say that's bs anyway right right, but I mean regardless of what it is just the fact that you gotta put it on a payment plan, you're setting yourself up for financial issues. That's just my financial backer

I I would agree at nineteen years old here is- is probably not making very much more on in a already. You know three and a half diamond ring was well way. Where than times in Abu, absolutely hamburg, inhumane hours, probably a car payment as I'm. Levy was working at a camera store, the time so yeah he wasn't making a whole lot of money, and so they are experiencing a lot of financial trouble didn have enough might have to pay the rent. the ring payment at this in time one month because remember is designed a payment plan for who knows how So he ends up stealing a hundred and eight dollars from the camera store that he worked out. and all the employees are questioned about it here,

including Longo, and he doesn't say anything so this is his first time getting his teeth, wet at the fang teeth way, I dont think that is the saying- is this first time he's into with you in the tea lighting, and why these getting into the theft. I do think this the first time that you he's done anything illegal right. Let's put it that way here and his conscious gets time So it does have a conscience here, and you know, the next morning. He goes back and he writes a check hundred eight hours, leaves it the counter, along with his of resignation, and so that mean that How'd you something about him early on right here. He did have some morals he had a conscience. This wasn't a guy, at least at this point that was

Was able to steal money and just say? Ah yes, that doesn't bother me at all right, so, basically, that month, rent didn't get paid had to pay for the ring. and he had to return the money that he'd stone One thing that happened because of this, though his room maids, who were You know also Jehovah's witnesses. They they went and told the the elders of the church about the incident and they longer was sanctioned. I guess at the church- and I think again we don't know much about that church. I really don't know why we might have some listeners that that might let us know, but I think it's the moral responsibility to alert the elders at the church when somebody does something wrong, regardless of how close they are to them. I don't know

to be a fact, but I'm going with you on that. I think it is flat is now, if you say it, it must be true, but apparently he lost some of his responsibilities within the congregation wife, Mary Jane. She stands by him at this point, but one big thing happens because this because he lost some of his responsibilities, one of the things did. Is they took away his and Mary jaynes ability to get married in the damn hall, which apparently was a big deal. I had to be huge and they both were from that church. So now you can get married, maybe same church that their parents were married, and so I am sure it was a blow I wish especially to were the wife yet, and I guess he no longer goes to the orders and he says unrepentant and he Basically at that point says he I,

Never do anything along those lines again. I will never do anything illegal, immoral or unsafe. what we know. That's not true, or he and be the subject of true crime, all the time up, so yeah so fast forward a few years and at this point long ago is working at a company that distributes the new york times. okay and there's all there's really only one reason. I I bring this up and it's because while he was there, he would regularly read articles that were written by a new york times. Writer named Michael Finkle, Finkle is going to play a weird role in this whole story that will come down the pike, but staying in chronological order. This is the period a time where he's working at this, this company that distributes near times. One thing that I read a lot of was that

apparently Longo. He had called an addiction. But he really was in two cars club Well the thing: lifestyle, lifestyle. He had an image that he wanted. I think he had a image in his head. How he wanted to see his life or how he was going to be perceived by people, regardless of whether the job or the money that he was making were supported right. He still wanted to have that. You know high end lifestyle that op yeah? I start he wandered nice car. He wanted to all be wearing nice clams and be able to take vacations and europe No, because that David, he had maxed out basically every credit card they had before the birth of their their first child Zachary ass. I mean this. This is not a good path right talking about to start dounia. I naturally these not setting a good pattern. That's for sure yeah, the very very

responsible when it comes to money. At this point there, both working but after zachary, is born Mary Jane quits, her job to stay here. With the children. I mean that just makes the financial situation even tougher here. So the stresses gonna have to build up on on him right here I mean us, he's only one bring an end to the money now and then. Dimension. They have two more children within the next two years here Well, they had all these children very quickly, which is expensive by all accounts. They, you know they love the kids. They were yeah thrilled about having these kids but their finances just cap. What's a lotta diapers and milk MA well, we both know that we're. So one thing that long ago cannot do is go to his parents for help

And the reason tat he couldn t the reason that he said he couldn't was because a pride so he's very pride, full right to the point where, like we mentioned, he wanted people to think he was really doing well, so he can't go asked for help because then people are going to know that he's not going to crumble, the facade yeah- and I think that that's a great word because this whole his whole thing is- is about this facade of opulence in this image mess another good word, but about building this image that he can afford, which really in our world. I think, it's probably fair to say, there's a big percentage of population that lives like that. I think that's why you see the high amount of debt, bankruptcies and things like that when we get off on the

though, I think you're right, I think people live beyond their means. That's exactly what I was going to say some because of certain life events, but others, because they're chasing down to be like the smith or jones across the street. Yeah. Not knowing that they probably make a whole lot more money, but they're trying to keep up and have the new su v have the have the boat. Have the lake house or have the the new to you know two story: four bedroom, two bath, two car garage house: if you don't make the money shouldn't, be jason, that down that's tough fry right, but it's a good thing is that most people don't go to the extreme of christian Longo. That's the good right! So at this point, Christian starts a construction clean up business. Ok with a fellow member of the church of the parishioner,

as a parishioner and actually the business takes off yeah. He starts doing kind of well and in this business, but again he goes too fast and he he starts this rapid expansion of the business, so he's grown, he's grown the business too far too fast and it can't keep up yeah and what happens? Is the business finds itself in debt really back right and kind of light. His personal life he's spending more than what is bringing in your instead of building the business slowly and then once you got enough money expanding he went too quick to problem. It is a problem, so the the longer family credit cards are maxed out, they gotta get nothing come in, but

to everybody around them? It looks like they're doing great yeah I mean like he's just like you said you know they have that last a day I mean him yeah she's in the blind, america, but he's not telling her now he's got near east control on he's controlling the finances, but I mean there live in the they got that facade out there and he's playing it very well It's the one thing that he does to keep up this facade, as you call it, which I think is a great word. He exaggerates about the success of his company and he gets his father to invest tens of thousands of dollars in the business. So I mean he really at this point. Morals or out the door. I think he's down he's going downhill because he couldn't go to his father or money in the beginning, because out of pride,

alright, but now he can go to his father and say: hey I've got this business. I got this great investment for you. That's doing great. Do you want to invest in his father? Does yeah and it's not long after that do here. The next thing you know, longbows out he's got, does got a boat he's got to jet skis and he told some friends that he won the jet skis and contest. He bought two cars but again he's not making any money so one day he wakes up and there's a tow truck in his driveway re possessing his ford tourists, repo man. right. So what does Longo do? Is other car the breaks down around here. Either around this time or are not long after it. So he may he makes a fake driver's license.

so right now we're seeing this guys becoming a major con conard. Yes, so now he's really getting into some of the technical aspects of con artistry and con artistry about that, I know say: takes the fake driver's license. He goes to a pontiac dealer and he takes out a montana for a test drive and he just never brings her back traps. Who does that euro Christian longer by me? So talk about his wife being in the dark? You know she asked him after a while I don't. Why have we got any statements like boy win being built as brand new vehicle right, where where's where's the where's, the invoices statements, whatever the payments, so yeah going cut con. What he does is he gets on his computer and he starts making fake invoice.

And emails it to his own house, said that his wife can open works. three mihail, so he gets off like a quick, or something around. What makes upper yeah yeah, maybe just word. Word worry. I actually goes to the post office since its himself, so she can see estate It's when you start down that path of think of it, like a ponzi scheme, bright it's very hard to get out because you're taking people money from these people to pay returns to to money about other people you just can't get out of it and it just snowballs and snow Bobby when Peter to pay Paul, not another word, he wasn't in the same situation. I think he could, of god

out of this and stopped maybe the conning here, but for whatever reason he you know he doesn't his marriage to Mary Jane, not goin. Well, apparently you know she called her sister, in two thousand and she had discovered some e between christian and another woman that can't be good. That's not good for the marriage usually and my wife, not a big fan now she's she wouldn't be, but she can free question christian about it right and he allegedly, hold her, that she hadn't been any fun since the children came so she's. Taking care of the kid so because she's busy taken care, what three three carry carriage, she she's. No phone probably doesn't have any time for him here last they sheep. I wants to hear tat. He tells her he doesn't love or anymore. In spite of all this Mary Jane stays with him, but she

to the elders, rikers their stolen, the church right and she goes to the elders and cheap. She tells them about it because it's the right thing to do. Was the right thing to do and apparently, as you said, it's it's something that they're supposed to do. I don't know that, fact, but I'm really believe in your question. This am sure will be confirmed, but though the tough part about this one Is there really was no evidence that he had had? A it's a cool relationship with another woman right, but she did have these emails so once again he sanctioned it and, as most women would probably tell you even if he didn't have a physical, just. The fact that he had an emotional relationship was just as bad, if not worse, when you're, when you are having that type of conversation, that type of relationship sharing that information with-

if you bought your wife, I think that that probably hurts just as deep, if not deeper yeah. I I don't know what the the actual substance of these emails were I would agree with you that that women don't like that, the emotional fares, probably worse than a physical affair. I dunno, if that's the case, but I'm sure we'll have people tell us one way or the other. I I I think they could be. They would be viewed as equally bad bad you're, not you're, not gonna, be the happy with either husband of the year doing either one of them nothing's. That's for sure.

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get sanctioned by the church, whatever that means and in this situation, but in a kind of puts on his con artist had again and using his computer, he starts printing fake checks from different companies claiming that they owed his by his business money so he made a fake check with and other companies logo and wrote the cheque from that company to his company cracked because he felt they owed him money on that sure they owed him money. I think it was a way to get money from them. Okay, I think the premise was that they owed him money right. I don't, I don't know if they actually did well, maybe he thought they did.

Even now, I just think he was trying to figure out a way to get money so heap. He uses their their name on. A fake check makes a check out to his company in cash is if they spacex what you're saying that, because the companies end up contacting the police, and it's not that long before he finds himself and hot water and in a courtroom. Well, I bet this is like you, two thousand, so I'm assuming they didn't know him money. I guess it would be a crime to do at either way, but the I'm, going to go out on a limb and say him that say that they actually didn't owe him money. I dunno so long ago pleads guilty to the fake check, scam, swindle! Let me guess just based off of other stories that we ve gone bad, nothing really happened storm yeah I mean he gets three years probation of course, unlike other people that we ve talked about

He didn't really have much of a record at all. Ok, you know so they don't know about this debate only about he hasn't been convicted or suspected of of any of that other stuff. Ok, so that doesn't surprise me too much here is some. We talk about a lot of. Episodes how one slap on the risk leads to more and more thing and it. So it's so strange because their lenient about something But if you got a little bit, a weed ma am you're going straight to jail year in I don't get it. it's weird that so many people in jail- and I don't want to get offer on IRAN about other stuff. So here he has ordered to pay restitution payments to these companies money that he doesn't have obviously, because he's been misrepresenting his finances. This whole time right-

The reason why he's doing some of this new illicit behaviour are crimes or whatever you want to say here is because he d, I don't have any money, so they want him now to pay restitution, and it's at this point that the elders they actually read about this check forgery in the newspaper and he was basically kicked out, so he shunned ye shunned or whatever turned away whatever. The Jehovah's witness term is for this fellowship. Is that what it's called? Does whatnot this fellow this fellowship yeah good research gibson? So this is where Longo would claim that this is a period of his life. That was like a defining moment. Yes, because he promises his wife that he's going to be truthful

is going to be faithful, he's going to straighten out all their finances. He's going to stop all this crazy illegal to his rebirth, yeah yeah, I mean this is basically where he saying I'm going to be the husband or the man or whatever that I'm supposed to be right, but right before that or as part of that, he wants to give eat for each them to give a present to each other, and he wants to give corrective. I surgery for Mary Jane and he wants her to give him scuba and so they don't have any money and they're gonna turn yeah

I turned a new leaf, but before we do, let's get five thousand dollars of eye surgery and take a few hundred. You know one thousand dollar scuba lessons right, so I you know that's kind of like that's kind of like the smoker. That says you know I'm going to quit, but I got eight packs and I gotta smoke. All these. I got a small smoke on packs where they cost money they did. I can guess it's not quite the same know that makes no sense financially right, but nothing that he's done up to this point has made any sense: financially, no he's not a year of hunting and he has no credit because he's maxed out everything. I would hope. I have a credit at this point. While the problem is, he gets credit, that's not good by taking out a card in his dad's name. So now that I was into forgery yeah, I don't know if that was, I don't know that war party,

turn the new leaf must be programme. It doesn't seem like it. It fits in with that. He would go on to amass a hundred thousand hours first it's just a credit that couldn't be. I was going to say that couldn't be one credit card. If it was, it had to be a you know, special american express right a gold, gold or platinum, platinum, black card thing that they have out there right. So a hundred thousand dollars in debt in his dad's name that he put in his dad's name. Clearly didn't have credit card alerts back then Lifelock man, I wish they had a lifelock. We need to get Lifelock as a sponsor lifelike contact us. If this is a good time- and you would probably wish that you were on our show, so I think at this point gibi he knows

yeah. He's he's crossed the line that he can never come back from. He did yeah and so it's hard to turn back after you've spent one hundred that put your dad and a hundred thousand dollars. Debt right and They ve got creditors that are calling them all the time they get friends, indifferent. Church members that There are stopping by the house. There concerned about mary, Jane, especially sure and christian figures out that we gotta get out here and eat eat. He needs a fresh start, so he gets the fight made a gathering and even though, as part of his probation. And he's not allowed to leave michigan for sustained michigan, but he doesn't abide by that either because he picks up in and they move to some dinky warehouse in toledo here. So just crust crossed the you not far from michigan

to cross the line he had crossed the border there, but technically a violation of his his probation, twenty two mary jane that he was gonna renovate this canada, He warehouse into some type City loft right from cool loft project- I don't know if he had the means or the capability to do that like in his head. He thought he did yeah. This is the guy that at any you know in his head. He probably sees as cool lifestyle Being an aloft downtown, just trying to figure out different ways to get to it right seems to be What he's doing his whole life problem is is every lie, turns into more lies. To cover up lies, and you forget what lies you told, and then you have to tell more lies to cover up the ones that you forgot. The charity told it's just it's just a never ending pyramid of lie gab, so that we can talk about this warehouse little bit that because he oh it's him

Mary, jane together, three young kids. Here they had no kitchen. running water, water, no plumbing I mean it's just camping indoors, camping indoors near and This point is lying to his wife. He's basically told her that he's paid the rent for six months in advance in order to stay afloat. He goes back to forging caching more checks, so one thing happens. Gibbey during this move, or as a result of this move, I should say It was that Mary Jane he or she drifted out of touch with her family. You she's got a sister, Sally and apparently yeah she was probably pretty close to her family. So what happened is immediately. They start to worry when she's not contacted them within a certain period to talk right, because I I don't think this was a set scenario where they went over to her house in or her families house and said,

Hey we're gonna move. I think they just picked up in bolted yeah yet ever and they her family had no idea right so our sister is out looking for her. And I'm not sure why, but she has some idea about toledo because I'll drive around in toledo right and I'm not sure why that was, but there had been some tip so our sister sallies canvassing, the area and spots or dog policies that its prey, lucky because toledo's, not a small city but lucky for her. She came across the dog ass. She actually speaks to Mary Jane at this point again,. Mary Jane, tells her everything's. Ok,.

She doesn't want to leave right, so the ultimate conclusion is that Mary jane refuses to leave christian and doesn't want to go back to miss him with her sister, that's the bottom line of, but neither both clearly there on its pretty strong at this point, husband and wife, it has to be even with all this for her. Knowing everything he's done again, I mean how much is he share and we don't know but but she's gotta know most of it is at this point yeah. She has to Longo goes on to you. He starts killing machinery and he's trying to sell this merci machinery and all. Why can't say the word machinery he's trying to sell this machinery and the cops are or on time but Before he can be charged because again he's got stories. Stealings this machinery Annie, we told you he's, pass him bad check.

The police are closing in on him, so he picks the family time to go and says boot. Brad, here now again. So essentially, at this point there running from the law and one story that I really liked as they get a kick out of. It is. So merry. Jane's driving in stolen suv Christian Longo is driving in a stolen, penske moving truck and she doesn't know these are stolen. No, no. I don't think she knows allows chasing after yeah. I think she's is taken here. We go one of those crazy things he wants to move again yet because She will say later to later on the people. that she had no idea that anything was wrong. You're. Basically, This move around their stand at camp sites, theirs. very little money cause. They have nothing. I think she does knew that there was some issues

early on right. But she didn't know how about the stealing of the equipment, machinery and all that other stuff that he was doing that led the for the police to you know want to pursue them yeah. I don't. She has not disappointed. He's wanted right right, but her family is worried still, because now they can't find her until EDA. They know she's, not there anymore, and They basically follow missing persons report christian law well, those parents are also worried and are trying to get different law enforcement agencies to help because they don't know where they are either. There's no contact between crew. mary, Jane and either one of their families. At this point, so eventually christian decides for whatever reason I don't know how he came to this conclusion, but that the fame

needs to go all the way out to work here, they're, making this track in stolen vehicles to their making the track out thursday that cheap, cheaper hotels, motels in the some campsites and that I have a lot of money, the run out of money so to the point that he he ends up hockin her wedding ring to help get them where they need to be, and then, on top of that in its report that on the way out their different different, stops along the way that he was slowly getting rid of personal belongings at different locations, getting rid of photo album books getting rid of some of the kids toy. Some of the sum of the clothing and leave him at trash container sites throughout and so this his not his stuff, Mary jane staff and the kid starve. Yes, yes,. It comes into play later, not foreshadowing, absolutely it's important, but eventually

get to their new home state, which is organ I give so when they get the organ They ran a small vacation house, I guess, and on this little town called wall word, you know they're only there a few weeks and they fall behind on the payments, because again imagine that yeah they got no money right. You know, like you, said: they've he's hawked most of the things that have already here and they have no net worth nothing to fall back on. They have no crime. Cards, because they had no credit right, left, maxed out everything They were upon her ring, so what else is going to do right? Nothing, nothing! A value! Somehow Longo convinces the manager of this very nice bay front, condo complex that he's a telephone company employees.

and that is waiting for a paycheck based on this story alone. This tells you kind of con man. Christian Longo is oh yeah, just based on this worried the manager allows the long goes to move into a fifteen hundred dollars a month condo with no money up front. So again, just another kind of insight into what type a con man this guy and he was able to pull off some yeah. He got to move them to her to a place that didn't have the pudding money down so long ago, gets a job part time at a starbucks cause that would help pay the fifteen hundred bucks right because part time at starbucks that yeah, that might cover my cover, the fifteen

the fifteen hundred bright and it s not even like starbucks starbucks, it's inside of fred meyer starbucks inside of another store right he's humiliate, because we talked about the fact that he strives to be this all true successful person he once these fancy car. Is he so where nice close look at this, he wants european life. Yet he does. He want everything so when he does, he tells us ass. He tells all the employees there at starbucks that he's basically rich. There he's got this internet business That is making all this money from that he only is taking this part time jobs because he loves starbucks coffee. So it's how he deals with his ego around here

He just his ego will not let him just to do something worthwhile work and work at starbucks and make an honest right wage without coming up with some story of why he has to do family struggling, they got no money. Even after he's making these very small paychecks, I assume working part time, he's not gonna, be making a ton of money now, so that money is not there he quickly the ran on the condo is not getting paid. They got no groceries to feed the kids made. Things are just not there not gone. Why not better now, git so low one point that your longbows gotta get gas and he has no money so he runs in, he pulls into the gas station pumps his gas and has to drive away without paying. Oh that's a low point for him. I did. I say it was a low point. I think you should things get really

add, but I don't know how yeah I'm surprised. It hasn't already been doing that some people just do that for kicks yeah but you're right. So I I think you mean, I think he tells it as a low low point for him, but really is it a low point for him? I don't think it is. I mean I think, the low point. was maybe, when you charged one hundred thousand dollars on your dad's credit card or hawked your wife. Perhaps your wife's readying, that's a big deal you to get your stolen vehicles out further out west, So the one thing he knows is that again he's not can be able state this condo because he can't pay. The rent is not told his wife yet. because it leaves her and that each she's in the dark, basically all time sure he's telling for one thing and usually it's that the exact opposite of what's going on. So we get to the night of December sixteenth, two thousand one-

and this is a night at longo- would describe as the beginning of the end so now gives we ve got to get to the gruesome part of the story and we we ve, talked about all the different things that have kind of lead up to putting christian Longo in the position that he's in? And you know he did all this himself- he put himself and his family in the situation. In a very bad situation right- and we talked about the night of december- sixteen two thousand and one- this is basically where he starts to hatch his plan fast forward. Three days later december, nineteenth two thousand and one. a man called the police about a gruesome, find the body of a small boy floating face down in the water near his lot at the army par

you're. Obviously they get the the body out, they take pictures and they do all the things that the police do, and digitally enhanced photo of the boy because it had to disney enhancing, because you know what happens when people spend, some period of time in water, and it's not good. No, but they've got so they've got this photographed and they're able to release it to the news. Media couple comes forward after seeing the picture on the news- and this is a couple that had babysat the children- I guess from time to time: okay they're in oregon and they come forward and they say that this child- and this enhance photo, looks a lot like Zachary Longo. Now we've got a fast forward three days later, so this would be the twenty second divers are searching, but like an area where Zach was found and they discovered the body of a small girl she's been weighted down,

with the big rock in a pillow case. Here, the pillow cases tied her ankle to gives both children found only in their underwear her in the same place. We know four year old Zachary and this would this little girl were, would turn out to be ceety Longo. So that's too the Longo children found would be for days five days later. Drivers are searching waterway and they find two suitcases. adam marina, underneath the doc that is adjacent to the current condo complex there, where the longest lived. Unfortunately, when they open the suitcases. One suit case contain tiny body of madison. She was the little two year old,

there were some clothing in there and then there was a dumbo that would have been used to wait down. The suitcase near the other suit case had some hair taking out of it and when the ends up that they found the now It remains of mary, Jane Longo, strange first, two kids just had their underwear on I'm guessing this. Second, the third one doesn't really say how our body was found but then the wife was totally make it yeah. I didn't say whether madison was naked, but it said. Did you said there were some clothing in there with her so sure I ll, I think the I remember reading that heat. He chose to pack extra clothes in there to keep the body from moving around because she was so tiny, so he wanted to consecrate his ear that he took the time to put clothing in the pack around her and then threw the dumbbell in there, on top of it, to make sure it weighted down, but but anyway,

sick guy, so they would do autopsies on all for the bodies and they were determined that all four had died of asphyxia and then also when it came to Mary Jane. There is evidence that there was some blunt force trauma to her face so likely she had been either punch. Turn hit was something hard right, nor face there. There was some evidence gibbey I read, but there were. There was also conflicting reports that Zachary and safety member. Those were the two, the first to them found that they had also died from drowning, which obviously they can tell if years, water in

you're basically saying they were thrown into the water still alive yeah, but I read conflicting reports on that. I read some that said that they they were drowned and some that said they weren't you know either way is bad, but I think what it will be. I think it would be worse that you would torture your kids by throwing them into the water alive. Well right if they drowned. Yes, that means they were they after days or even more. There are alive at the time that he put them in so initially. You know the police are looking for christian Longo. They've got to question him to find out what's going on by the next day. They already have charged him with murder. So I mean we're talking very twenty. Seventh is when they find the two suitcases. The twenty eighth of december is when he's charged with murder, but he's nowhere to be found. No right he's bolted again. Yep after killing all four.

Members of his family and pretty quickly. He makes the f b I's ten most wanted list. He does, and you know he was even profiled on America's most wanted. John Walsh's show and fairly popular back. Then it was, I used to watch it all all right and apparently Christian's parents even were on the show- and cooperated with giving information to try to help find him till they get any I that the shower I dont know if it came directly out of america's most wanted or not. But there was a tip that lead authorities to mexico.

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long ago- says that he's Michael finkel a travel writer for the new york times. So he's basically assumed yeah. This Michael think those identity, while he's hiding out in mexico right. So I guess he's pretending to be this finkel guy right. think on I'm going go online hall, so either a key meets a german photographer to add to his facade again and I think maybe they're all. Maybe that would make sense if he's portraying himself as a as a writer yeah he's selling it to everybody down there. He meets a photographer, that's kind of a she gets interested in the stories that he's telling. Even though they're not true, it's an it's kind of a natural match, maybe the real michael finkel is now embroiled in this, christian Longo saga and it would I want to be like that

bizarre twist of this story, so I want to play just to little audio above of the real michael finkel, I received the most on the phone call of my life, a reporter in Oregon, called me up and he told me that a man who had been on the fbi's ten most wanted list had just been rested in mexico, where, taken on my name and my identity, compounding all of this- I just found out there had impersonated munich, the exact same time that I was basically have identity stolen ass, my own identity. I had made a terrible mistake. I had lied in an article that are

for the new york times magazine, I had done, was called a composite, characterise combined a lot of these together to make one character and was caught for this fired made a really terrible judgment error, and I, like my editors, who is one time act for which I have not forgive myself and handed enough. I handed in falsified story and at that, it's almost to the hour day, most confounding interesting material. I've ever had failed in my lap. He had read many of my articles. In a nutshell, he was he was a fan. He said, he'd always wanted to be a global. in journalist and when he was on the lam in mexico, he assumed what he called his dream job. It was the most complicated intricate bizarre relationship of my life was not journalist, subject to in any typical way. He took on my identity first, which is not the way.

Usually a journalist and subject meet, and it was he. We wrote each other more than one thousand pages of handwritten letters. We spoke on the phone fifty one times I visited with him in jail well in the very end of our relationship after his trial. In a letter he confessed to me that he murdered all four members of his family he's blamed his wife for initiating the crime, which is something that I do not. Leave at all. I had psychologists read some of his letters and they diagnosed him as what's called narcissistic personality disorder, extremely inflated sense of self. He thought it was very important that family. His family's fortunes were diving and that, if He wasn't going to be around to take care of his family. They wouldn't be able to survive without him. He puts it pretty succinctly there. Now, Michael finkel, as he says, was fired from his job at the new york

times, but he would go on to write a book based on his interaction with Listen Longo kind of a romance really did tend to turn into a romance a little bit. The book would be called. Truce worry they made a movie out of it. A few years ago here with James franco, wayne christian Longo, an jonah hell playing finkel, finkel and movies, pretty good. I enjoyed it, but it really plays up the angle the relationship between finkel and and longer right. It is what most of the movie here is about. Really wasn't about the correct even though, even those part of It- yes, it's really to spend a whole lot time on yeah. More overview I mean, obviously that interview they d. It kind of jumps ahead in the story a little bit, but we gotta go Yeah, so this is january, thirteenth of two thousand to the fbi and the

and the federer alleys they catch up with the long ago. They arrest him and zach after this that you know Longo starts to tell them some detail I about what happened in the days after his family died. He never says that he killed them. He never confessed to the crime, what it does say is that, after december, sixteen when his family is not around missing, I want your he's down, I'm right, but he says that he I went to blockbuster We ran the movie he's trying to distract himself by for his family being missing. He go

here he's goin to the gym to work out. He attended these starbucks christmas party that they held at a local pizza play, which was which was strange because I saw actual video of one of the co workers there and she said he acted like. Nothing occurred just you know I haven't at the party have a nice time and but that's the con man can do right right. They can definitely do that. There was one, not I'm assuming this a different coworker, but one coworker. would say that Longo had told him that his wife had left him for another man, so he's trying to stir he's trying to set up some stories. Possibly customs, like Petersen, will bit yeah analyze p, so with tat, can maybe help explain right what he knows. His already happened the day after

her christian Longo, here's the reports on the news that the body of a little boy had been discovered in the water which we know to be his sons. Agri Longo picks up his final paycheck from the starbucks any drives the san francisco. For some reason he applies fur another, a job at another starbucks and san francisco, so like he was gonna they are beyond, but he doesn't he bolts and that's when he heads to mexico caddy says I gotta get out of here mean any goes to two can coon at that point. You know he's telling them kind of play by play. as he gets theory rents, cabana, which we said he spend time with. A group of british travellers, smokes alot of pie, he toward some of the ruins and

all the while he's pretending to be this journalist, Michael finkel, and, as you talked about you know, he's kind of getting close to this travel for photographer, whose name is janina so, one thing that I found very interesting is that he does tell a fell. A federal agent that it's his looks and his speaking skills that he felt had helped him get away, with so many different cons and crimes. You know whether it was the the way that he looked. People trusted him. He had a trusting, look about him or he was well spoke in people trusted him more than they would the average of the average joe maybe and there had been to that because he did get away with a lot of these a lot of these things and he was able to

khan his way through life, therefore, for quite a while, when great existence but he wasn't working. He was definitely able to have the house of cards in his favor yeah, so you know that I think one of the things gibi that he does tell f b. I agents is that he sent them to a better place. I mean I think that was a quote. I sent them to a better place. He will never say the words I killed them now: think or say that he does tell him that much later on, but he will not tell the police did he kill them, but I sent them to a better places, pretty damning so in itself? So as lawyers are preparing for a not guilty plea and capital trial on for charges a first degree- murder? Ok, that's what they're prepare!

four and there's all these, this pretrial activity, there's a bunch of defence claims about the fact that Longo was tricked into returning to the? U s that he wasn't told of all his different rights and things right before he was brought back. Then I think, but they were trying to do, was to get the death penalty off the table right. I think they were because I long ago, apparently didn't know that oregon had the death penalty right, because what I read was the first that he learned of it was on the flight back to oregon yeah. That's what I heard too, that you know. Basically, that's when he wrote I see that you know they had that, and I dont know him. Him, knowing that fact what it would have changed

I assume he was. He had already made the decision to kill him kill his entire family. Here I don't think he thought he was gonna get caught, most people don't know, but would he have driven to another state and done it

yeah. I doubt it right, but I I found that interesting, that that was the first time he learned of it the fact that they had the the death penalty. If I understand right, though, before the trial even began, he he first pleads guilty to the murder of his wife and two one daughter, madison yeah with without any deal yeah, because his lawyers are trying to negotiate with prosecutors to avoid the death penalty. But, like you said, he goes ahead and for whatever reason pleads guilty for mary, jane and madison, but he will not plead guilty to killing sadie and Zachary, which is strange, very strange. So if you've already admitted to two, why not admit to the other two? But the court is for

I guess because he won't they're forced to enter a, not guilty plea on sadie and zachary on those two charge: okay, yeah, the defense goes through the natural things they try to get a change of venue, that's denied, which makes the I mean it was heavily in the media so you'd want to. But again it was heavy in the media. So where do you go and they always yeah most most of the times? They try that on these big high profile cases right- and I think the the the judge whose his name was huckleberry- most. Whether huckleberry Amir huckleberry hid his axe me. I don't know why shouldn't be his name's rot robert Huckelby huh. I wonder how many of will know what you just They were movie that was to like that movie, but you he d, basically, rules based on what you just said, which is we'd, have to move this thing out of the whole state too.

Cape, the average leave and even then might not be able to to do it pretty doubtful so that the prosecutions case I mean was was pretty soon. For you know, they're they're angle was skies, it cold, hearted killer and that he killed his entire family because they were too much of a burden he couldn't. He couldn't provide for them. He couldn't take care them and they're worse. There was some evidence, according to the prosecutors that he had planned this months in advance, so one of the things that they had was his computer. Yes and they find some pretty interesting stuff on there re gives they did. I mean they even

I found a website called hitman online hitman online, so which apparently offered all kinds of different advice, advice or different ways to murder people and get away with it. I suggest that you, don't google, that right now it will not look good for you If you do something for ad or of course our search histories are not making us look good now, if anything haven't been very much point yeah if something happens, non fault of my own, I'm pretty much screwed regardless because of my web history, yeah, it's pretty dark so at this point, but yeah, so that so they find this web I called hitman online different types of method of murder and they also find saddam. A bitch

areas that have information scribbled on the margins, gives almost like he had taken peoples, a bitch worries and started to put in your family's information contemplate up in their own right. We also remember you know what we were talking earlier about how he started isolating his wife jane from Mary family right, yeah death. I think that was part of his plan at a certain things, certain things in motion, but one of the two craziest things was that I guess he had built up some frequent flyer miles on his credit card. At some point, and he used those to fly, and I can't, I can't remember, I think, was south dakota. He flew somewhere crazy,

just to send a postcard while back to her family. So they thought that why she, they would think they ve always were in south dakota, yeah and look any further pass that so the guy's got no money, but he's got some four when flyer miles, one hundred thousand dollars worth of credit cards probably build it. Yeah no kidding no thought about that here, so he sends his postcard just to kind of lay a false trail yeah, and I got a kick out of that because that's just I mean to go to the. At length, pretty extreme because remember, gettin, killed in and then killed. Em. No he's just try, and to a certain stage, even know if that point, if he is but maybe it's because you talked about him starting to discard thing goes back up you know, Harry is on the way out. You know from toledo too,

in on you know, he is get rid of personal belongings and- and I can say from family photo books to the kids clothings the kids toys there there baby books, I mean. Why else would you do that, Yeah, especially if you, if you have no money, I would get rid of it instead of trying to find a place to put a hawk, it sold it somewhere, exactly yeah, so, but what One thing the prosecutors did have a problem with they had no direct evidence right all this circumstantial evidence and they had a lot of it here but they had no direct evidence, the link longer with the killings There was a witness that could play sam on this bridge. I guess and that that played some significant, and- and there was a man that contacted authorities after he heard about the bodies on the news and said that he had had an encounter.

The man in a reddish minivan that stopped on the bridge saw its playing into him either throwing the bodies over the bridge or right. You know getting rid of the bodies that way and scooters would say that it was the two older children and those are the two that were found first right, Zachary in safety right that they were thrown into the water so that they were kind of matching that with with these sightings or these stories about people either. in him on the bridge or meeting him the bridge. I think one thing that was pretty damning to his case was a couple that was staying at that same condo. and apparently they had heard some really loud what they called dry. Giving sounds coming from a new.

by room mickey, get that when you drag idea a body in the suit case here, especially a yet a hundred ten pound. In a your and you're dragging on and then Think longbows own statements were used against him near the statement we talked about that he had aid when may so Maktub seldom centre to a better place. Yet the prosecutors use that against him, but I do want to play one clip from from the prosecutor. He placed his hand. Our throat began to squeeze and in a violent struggle. She fought for her life, but she wasn't over able to overcome the defendant. I have three or four minutes she was dead. Let me ask you this chris,

Is there anyone else? We need to be looking for for the death of your fair years. His reply, not that I'm aware of that's not a good sign, no right so he's asking christian or the law enforcement is asking christian Longo. Yet there is anybody else that they should be out. Looking for- and he says, that I'm aware of ripe. So give me the defense we know has to do their job, that gotta mounted defence for christian Longo Now they go about doing it in some crazy ways, but I don't think they have much to work with one thing: the defence claims says that the family was still alive on december, seventeenth and that they had visited Longo work. and then they went on to say that there were security, tapes

from the Fred Meyer, which is the store that the starbucks was in and those tapes would have proved that the family was still alive, but the tapes had already been destroyed or recycled. You know taped over and that's really. The problem with a lot of this case. Is that a lot of the evidence that would prove that what he was saying was true or not they didn't have it right, perfect common me. The other thing that the defence tries to do is say that the. The two mary jane madison and zachary and safety were disposed of in very different manners and location and, and so they were trying to make that a big deal and say you know why he killed the to order. children and by drowning, then asphyxiate

the jane and madison right and I think that's where it gets strange right because he says like I was saying she takes him to work right. She picks him up and he saying that when she picks my party has honours or house coat, doesn't have anything else on. She's barefoot pick them up in a house code and she he is acting kind of distraught is what how he sells it and that the fact that the kids weren't weather, which would be strange cause meant having a two year old and little kids. You wouldn't leave them alone forever, who they arrive back to the condo, and he saying that you know Mary Jane begins to start whimpering and acting kind of strange right and I guess

His next claim is that he finds little madison lifeless on the bed, so I I got it back yet, because this is christian Longo on the stand. Yes telling his side of the story, his version and it's about two days into his testimony. Yes, that he starts to reveal what he says happened in the deaths of his children. Here's the master manipulator, I think jerry scene, it they're, seeing this kind of man and action. So what Longo claims gibbey is a. He found madison little madison lifeless on the bed. He began to shake Mary jane trying to get in. who's out of her in tells him. You did this. You killed us and that's when Tells him that the other two children or in the water so so he's trying to put the blame on her? Yes, I am she d minute that sheep with the kids

the warriors trying to put the whole thing on her and then he goes on to say that's when he lost control he wrapped his hands around Mary jane neck and strangled her to death. We know, that's all bullshit, we know there's not much, but that's what he tells the jury, and then he tells them that so after she was dead, he decided to go ahead and dispose of the the bodies and two large suitcases right. So he's got to get rid of madison and get rid of Mary Jane. He went to his baby daughter and then he suddenly- and this is where for me, it gets when he's already sick, but it really gets disturbing that he suddenly realizes that the child's still alive this assist

laurie. This is what he's down the jury now he's. I stand and we're gonna hear fine. We're gonna hear from him in a minute. Not all this, but we're gonna hear any sane. You know, even though she was breathing. I thought of her as dead at this point, and here he said that he began smothering madison. He stopped saw her breathing again, so he groups this little girls throat. He used in his big means. Hands on this little girls. Throat am strangled, her strangled her, and then he asked to put her in a suitcase put it's too big for her little tiny body and he feels it up with clothes. And here we go. We ve heard this before to make it more com,

Will let me refer this and other cases that, after the bought that the person's dead they they want to give comfort yeah it blows me away, I mean they were able to say you know Mary Jane had no history of violence. She had no temper by all accounts she wasn't a big woman she's a hundred ten pound year. She wouldn't price probably be physically able to do All these things got. You know, dump the children to be tough, tough, it be tough. with these big heavy rocks that were attached to lift the children with these big rocks dump him over a bridge to maneuver debt type wait. We are not very plausible at all, but to what we gotta hear from long been saving this one, but you gotta hear him talk the bible says you should not lie.

The Bible actually says if there is resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous, they gave me an ultimatum at that point. They said because I was still fairly adamant that I wanted to date, Mary Jane, and they essentially so, you can either live under a roof or you can date. Mary Jane and I chose to move out that next week ended up to probably close to twenty five thousand dollars. I was upset about that. I felt that at the outset. I reason, but this was something that she needed. I think internally I was, we thinking more about what am I gonna set of people now that our foreign tourists, who has been another someone I can see. My car driver was a bright issue with as much as I think, an inconvenience to the emerging. She would think about my comfort in the comfort of the kids over her or the comfort of anybody.

silver over her own. You now lot there and I had to kabul alot of that stuff together, but he's talking about some of the things that we mention the tourists and he's talking about that his pride couldn't handle the fact it did. The tourists had been repossessed via the one I took from that was the end of it. Cause he's really saying these very good. Very nice things about his wife and how she would put her every day, else's needs ahead of herself right, compassionate, so I don't know how that plays into his story. Well, I think we all accounts- and I think it was mentioned several times there- that Longo was probably their best witness and the defences worst

write his own testimony. You know he he he he screwed himself yeah. I wish I wish I had more of it yeah, but there wasn't a lot. online, but I wanted people to be able to hear him, so the jury gets a case right. After all, the testimony said and done right and on April seventy thousand and three parents. They had deliberated for about four hours they finding guilty of aggravated the murder of two of the children for you. Zachary and three road safety to piggy back. What you are saying one under said in an article that it wasn't circles actual evidence alone that convince deem it was long, goes own testimony yeah, it's basically what you were saying he was his own worst enemy exactly on the stand

so give me we talked about earlier that he had already pledged guilty to killing Mary, jane and madison right. So basically, all they had to convict him for was for the murders of Zachary insane which they did and then the jury had the only phase, which was determine to determine and whether or not he should get tee a death penalty, so the prosecution obviously were. They were arguing for the death penalty and they said that this man was a professional com. artists. He manipulated everyone. He came into contact with and if he was not put death row and ultimately put to death. He would pose a danger whether he got out, but he would also pose a danger to the prison population is what they argue here. some strange things happened while using

harsher, aided in the county jail awaiting trial, yet that they brought up you know he committed a bunch of different infractions just in their handful. He is caught chipping, a hole in his cell window or as part of some type of an escape plan that he was caught right. Writing letters to other inmates, even female inmates, which you know the communicate with other inmate inmates. That way was not allowed. They also caught him doing that. Now, in the defence side, they said there was no history violence. They argued

some of the things that we said in the very beginning, which is he had no signs of being violent as a child. He never beat his wife. He never started any fights, but then the defense also talks about how his biological father was a violent alcoholic, the abused his mom and with sometimes also not only hit his mom also were hit him yeah. I think that's one thing we didn't talk about in the very beginning right, the the father that we talked about was actually has stepped fire and that's where it is happy childhood was was about and there and that's where the Jehovah's witnesses. You know religious aspect came from his step, father and mother, but that, as you said, his real father was apparently not a very nice guy right, abusive

you're, pretty abusive here, allegedly allegedly so on April, sixteenth, two thousand three the jury comes back, and they sentence Longo to death for all four killings, good for them exactly several the jury. Others would even say that they thought he did pose a threat, not just because he had killed four people, which should be enough on its own bright, but they cited his intelligence and his ability to con people in any situation, as as a factor ass for them in determining that he should be put to death. So long Longo is currently incarcerated on death row at the organ state prison. They still have capital punishment, so he still eligible for death, But apparently they they've had a moratorium on executions since two thousand and eleven, so I dunno

that walter emily mean less, they lift that more torreon he may spin. The life on death row does on hold yeah. So right now is death is an home or a gimme. That's the story of a christian Longo, ultimately he's a bad dude. You know a father that kills his wife and in three very small children. Yeah he's you can't get much more, and I know it and because he's a typical comment I mean, even though he's in prison he's still going at it. Right I mean he's. I guess: he's allowed to have a cell phone and he's still campaigning. He wants to repay society by giving is donating his organs rang the hell allowed to have a cell phone on died, but he's he's got one, they say, and then these he's really true

I ain't hard to put that facade out there- that he's a good guy now by doing this, but the courts rejected it. So hopefully they stay with that and eventually the moratorium list, but yeah I mean what another sick individual that we cover tonight yeah. Definitely we cover a lot, but this guy- and we talked about this and peterson right with the intimacy of the murder I had something to do with the how heinous it was right and you gotta put that in this category and then you have to multiply it yeah, because now you know, peterson was killed. His wife and his unborn child right Longo killed his wife and three very small children, the innocence. It's just trust,

it's the trust factor. Yeah like we talked about. Alright, you want to go down. You want to lay down at night next to your spouse, significant other close your eyes and not worry that you're going to wake up with something bad happening to you now, you're going to freak out every woman. That's listening right now be wary. all right, everybody, that's it for stay safe and keep your own time. I'm taking the