The last part of the BTK trilogy! We continue with the last two BTK murders, his resurface after a long hiatus, and his ultimate arrest. It's fascinating after he resurfaces how he wants to communicate with both the media and law enforcement. His lack of knowledge about computers leads to his downfall. Please visit the show's website at htt://truecrimeallthetime.com to see all the ways to interact with us through social media. Click through our Amazon banner for all your holiday shopping. Amazon gives back to the show with no extra cost to you. We have a new sponsor - Sock Club. Visit sockclub.com and use the discount code TRUECRIME to receive 15% off your order. Please subscribe to the show if you haven't already and rate/review.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I everyone welcome depths of five of the true crime, all the time podcast, as always on your host MIKE ferguson, I've got my
obsession gibbey back with me again today, absolutely right off the bat. This is part three of the day.
Raider, BT, K story so
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download and listen to those first
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gimme. What's going on today, man
nice to be in europe studio. Today,
yeah. So
This shows different in a couple of different ways. The first one is gibbons studio for the first time we got it
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Direction value continues to go up and up now,
most of you are familiar with Jeffrey Dahmer. We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted individual mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer, on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle war takes us through the story, starting with Dahmer, his childhood and the first murder all the way through his death. The podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives, journalists and others close to the case to explore exactly what happened and how.
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I give you. What do you think? Are we ready for the final part of the Dennis raider bt case aga,
think we are now. I am I don't know about you. I had to take up
simple showers after or not
not together. No, I don't want to start any crazy rumors, but I draw the line somewhere. Yeah you gotta, draw it somewhere, yeah, alright, so we're picking back up and
september of nineteen eighty six and at this point
raiders got his eye on a woman named Vicki regularly
twenty eight years old mother of two
and raider word. You know we again. We ve talked about this a lot, but here he's goin
is trolling in stocking phase.
He would walk by Vicky's house a lot in
It was said that he would hear vicki playing the piano.
And so
eventually she becomes a project again.
You talked about that right can locks and honour yep
as he does.
Sometime after I things around ten o clock in the morning, radio shows up at vicky's door now did I
this is somewhere along the line, whatever he does
jobs and, right now before he goes,
an authority.
go somewhere any changes close and that's it
onto the yeah
the church or work, but he summaries changing clothes before he goes over there. Not so
I think what I hope
talking about. Is he changes into a telephone, repairman outfit right now that I'm going exactly so
the. I read that so he's got on the telephone. Repairman outfit complete with hard hat
So he went all out for this one
you know his ruse. He liked to call his ruses right
he's gonna, sit close on then hit clothes
I assume we're going to find out that he's got his hit. Kit
them as well,
He somehow manages to get Vicki to allow him in using this.
phone repairman ruse to check the phone line and not again its eighty six
those of you out there. Don't don't fall for that here
it like he was fiddling with the phone messing with it.
it's around with a mild, I think, was
her two year old plan on the floor. I read
having read somewhere
part of the room was he said he had a as some kind of a new gas.
That would make the phone
better or something like that, but it was pretty
quickly after that dead, he tells Vicki that she
and to be tied up rates were we're. Getting
again too familiar to
toy with raider, where
he's got a gun tell
person he's going, tie him up
forces vicki into the bedroom as
is tying rob
battling the shit out of me: she's, pretty strong. She she'd kind of breaks, loose yeah she's, unlike one of the other ones, that I don't want to say, went along, but was giving him
verbal em, a lot of
time, but wasn't you're putting up a physical fight.
right that wasn't VIC
I mean she put up a pretty
the big time battle, scratch team.
clawing adding doing whatever she could ultimately rebate. Rater prevails here, he's bees,
Your stronger- and he is at one point
able to secure her with ropes and
he proceeds to strangle hearted death using pantyhose, not sure
the first time that he used pantyhose, because them
Talk about him, leaving some nodded pantyhose was that in the
was that marine hedge in the last one can't remember.
this was one of them was one of them, how we weren't sure if that was the literature or not, but at one
when he did leave. You know some
pantyhose at another crime scene
another thing that he does with this victim that he did
in previous
situations was that he photographed the body
in a bunch of different poses in that
This is this. This is kind of the second time he's done that right, yeah. I believe it is the second time so it's almost like either
He enjoyed that and wanted to continue that,
but he didn't remember from the home, like you did the last one rate where he went to the church
and took the photos, write them
when he actually removed and to remove that victim.
From the home and re, like you said this one he just took them, took the pictures of a bit
but again he leaves and her car and economies in a hurry cause. I think I remember that
when he gets there,
she tells him that her husband should be
calling soon or honour on his way home soon. So he kind of cleans up pretty fast thinking that the husbands, you know,
his way home. He I think, there's them
some I read, raider stated
afterwards that had the hudson
come home. He would have killed him to hear the key was the year
with men wasn't really is strong point now, then. I think he s why he made every attempt
try to steer away from from men, benin if they were in the house and such yet
is part of his trolling phase. Star
in phase he did ever
and he could to make sure that the woman
would be alone, you didn't
working in the bright case because katharine's brother,
Kevin came home and that didn't work
too well for raider ready. He wasn't it
or to handle things thing was cabin. Was cover
So I think, after that he was, he was
Larry. I ve had the tank
with men pride, because he he was a little bit about a coward, probably when it came to that
So Vicky's husband does come home, though not too long.
After raider gets out
are there and actually quick enough that
He sees his own car being driven away by raider going in the opposite direction,
Please said he couldn't identified the driver, but he knew
and vaguely.
you mentioned the two year old son Brandon, so he
walks in the house, Brandon stone the living rooms on the tens,
playing doing whatever dope does lookin for
Vicky, can't find her ultimately
it does, however, find her on the bed room floor. Behalf
the bed calls the police caused paranoid
that point, it was nine one one. I guess the deadline,
nine one one and eighty six, I'm sure we did probably didn
but she's Russell rushed to the hospital paramedic.
Tried to revive or but know who wasn't to be, and she was pronounced dead. Not too long after getting to the house,
so bt case driving around in there in their car he's looking for a place
dispose of evidence and he autumn parks. The
the way card just a couple.
From their home gets out,
and ass. He had done on a yoke pretty.
it's all of his previous incidents. He walks on foot back to.
He had parked his own car and
ages. Clothes was a dylan's
I know I don't have. I don't have a written down, maybe he'll say it, because we do have him on tape describing it and nobody, by the way emailed me to tell me
don't ok, we stone.
I was shocked at the lack of listening.
Participation us.
We sure somebody from that area was gonna, emo in and say dylan's it department.
story, dumb ass, but now I did I was waiting on. It still might come so
You know that there are some things that happen to vicky's.
been bill after this incident, because
Raiders, never suspected of this crime he's not
backed it of any of the crimes and
as we have already said, two thousand for two thousand five is so disappointed.
its nineteen eighty six and no,
Where has lost his wife he's
ass. The mother of is too,
children, zig, estimate that another child too. He was
dad intensely for this crime
That's not too surprising, because normally the husband is typically this
and the sad eyes,
It said that vickie
killed. Then he had lost her.
it's also said that he was suspected of this crime for the next eighteen years. Until
was ultimately proven that it had been committed by dennis writer,
Luckily, he was not charge;
or prosecuted or even
jail
we hear that a lot on on some of these cases where people are
in exonerated now by by dna about
lot of people, I'm a big apology down the road
did the police force
from what it sounded like.
well, they should have the the
better. The spouse is always normally the
this person that is looked at, but
It is sad that this cloud of suspicion hung over him for such a long time. So let's hear rate or talk
the vicar dickie regularly murder. In his own words again,
it was a regular was another potential victim. I went through those different phases locked in on her, as I would call it and decided that I would try that day. I used a ruse as a telephone repairman to get into the house drove there in my own personal car around lunchtime during lunch hour or approximately that time and earlier in the morning that and like I actually went somewhere else and changed to change things, but when I called maya it close, close, close up basically different, you know things that I'd need to get rid of later, not not same kind of clothes. I had an eye on what other better word use it. The crime clothes were good clothes. I just hold it close anyway. I walked from a car as a telephone repairman as I walked there at dawn, the telephone helmet had a briefcase went to one other address just to kind of size of the house. I'd walked by it a couple of times, but I wanted to check a little bit more. As I approached it, I could hear a panel sound and with this other door knocked on them and told them that were recently working on telephone repairs in the area and went to her went to her office door asked her by shepherd telephone once inside. Did she allow you in? Yes, she did what happened. I went over and found out where the telephone was stimulated. That was checking the telephone ahead of make believe instrument and after she was looking away. I drew a pistol at her and asked her if you go back to bedroom with me this society, three fifty seven magnum know this. This was a different. The argued asked her to go back to the bedroom with you after drawing a pistol. Yes, sir, what happened? I told her. I went back bedroom, which I was going to have to tie her up. She was very upset and I think we, I used the material that was in there and that that's another thing not sure, but I think they use material that they had in their bedroom and after I tied her hands, she broke that and we started fighting and we've bought quite a bit back and forth. She was physically fighting. Yes, sir. What happened finally got the hand on her and got a nylon sock and started strangling the wrap. The stocking around her neck is what happened I finally gained and gained honor and in a third down, and I thought she was dead, but apparently she wasn't. But after after she was down and not moving anymore, I rearranged her clothes a little bit and pick some photos and a three one. I remember and then, after that I was lot of commotion. She had mentioned about her husband coming home, so I got out there pretty quick. The dogs were raising a lot of pain in the back doors windows roll all over the house, a lot of noise when we were fighting. I left pretty quickly after that, but everything that briefcase and enter I'd already gone through her purse got the keys in the car and use their car for my getaway car all right. You indicate that you thought she was dead, discover later that she was not bit yes, I guess the paramedics arrived and they tried to attempt over reliever river that fail that only she died there on the way to the hospital or at the hospital. I don't recollect you later by that she did die as a result of your strangulation. Yes, a couple of things are gibi
and almost every one of these. He says I thought she
was down but then found out that she wasn't
right. Have you ever noticed that oh yeah yeah? It's almost like key? He thinks he's killed them, but I think what is done is done
they they pass out right. That's what I was thinking in any.
Really verifying you know by looking for a policy on the seat there actually dead
yeah just that that jumped out of me, because he said that on almost every one I thought she was down. He said a bunch of battle. Tara Pham right. I think almost almost every one he's had a go back. A second time around. It seems like
yeah, and he did talk about his hit close true crime. All the time is sponsored by better help. You know getting to know yourself can be a lifelong process, especially because we're always growing and changing. I know not the same person at fifty that I was at twenty. I have things that bother me worry me today that I don't even think about when I was twenty years old, better help connect you with a licensed therapist. Who can take you on that journey of self discovery from wherever you are? I've used better help and I've found it to be an extremely beneficial service. If you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try, you can do the whole thing online, they've designed it so that it's convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Discover your potential with better help, visit, better help, dot com, slash te cat, tch TT today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help. H e l, p, dot com, slash tikka, you know, folks, I love audible, audible. Lets me enjoy all of my audio entertainment in one as an audible member. You can choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog, including the latest best sellers, a new release. You also get access to a growing selection of included, audiobooks, audible, originals and podcasts. Like I mentioned, you can download a stream included titles. All you want. I liked the fact that audible goes with me. Wherever I go, whether I want to listen to a podcast or a different type of title. It's there from new members can try audible free for thirty days, visit, audible, dot com, slash te cat, tch, TT or text
to five hundred five hundred: that's audible, dot, com, slash d cat or text, t c, a t t to five hundred five hundred. Well, it's a we're we're now at the last murder
murder would not occur
until nineteen ninety one. So again, we've talked about this before, but bt k takes breaks, yeah or to go yeah was he do I mean it was
five years right. I think there's very few killers or serial killers that can put off their factor acts
call it, gives us what he called it right
whatever, that is that driving them further,
of time that he does
tween crimes that that fascinates me because I
I dont think most serial killer,
we are able to do it like that, but he he some somehow does, and I I don't think that he committed any other ones in between cause. I think he would revel in taking the credit for
right, yeah, I think he would have. I think he I think he owned up to everything
and he even tried to take credit at some point. Four
for one for things that he didn't do it do right that that we were private talk about a little bit later
So it's ninety ninety one raider at this point is
is forty. Five years old, he
focuses in on sixty two year old name, dolores Davis and
actually did read what you and I
had touched on earlier? Was that at this point
had become very leary
of younger women where he thought
potentially a younger male could be involved in ice,
forty five years old, which not to give away anything but
about our age. I don't feel like he should have been that way,
but he obviously, although he was able to overpower women, vaccinated
in specimen like or yeah. Maybe that's what it is is not buff and right. It doesn't work out. People are going to laugh. That knows
we say that it so
focused on Dolores David
that's his project,
And she only lives about a mile
or to away from where he does, but
is no. There was no indications that he knew her personally
there was with marine hedge, but one
questions I that did you conduct.
but for me, is spent
with marine hatch weiss. Why so close? Why not go out a little fun?
there now. Ultimately, it doesn't matter right because
catch him all his victims,
the city at an don't know how big that city is compared to you know, say dayton
it's a lot bigger. So I'm, even if even if you were in dayton and did this
right. It would be very hard to come across money that
No, you know of you well wait a minute we talkin
part city. Are we talking wichita talking parts,
ok park city, I'm sure smaller than than which take as a lot bigger right
a park city I think, is probably a suburb of which at all,
is right. I'm guessing nobody's gonna correct me because nobody will send the email to tell me
what joneses yeah we're so then they're not going to correct me
and say whatever? I want that's right, too small
so yeah me. I do think that he's got a set on him because he has
problem. Like you, said,
a mile away, and he has no issues right. I mean he's picking his victims.
a mile away from his home. I can't imagine
We have no fear in essence right so, like you said,
is it stones is it he does
give a shit is ignorance, I dont think its ignorance and I think he well, I think you think
smarter than the police right, sir,
I think he thinks he's smarter than what he really is right and I add to his excitement level. Knowing that you know here he's doing something just in know future
talks are a mile down from where he lives, and I dare you to find out that it's me,
So, let's talk about dolores Davis. She's, like we said, sixty two she's living
hark city, and
she's running a house
is not close to other houses, so she's got a little, but a space perfect target perfect target
rate or while his smile he's doing is trolling and stocking. He notices dolores he's
or two at some point confirm that she single she loves alone. She has
You know neighbours there.
Close so, like you said, put perfect target for him
yeah again, we said this is last murder but gig.
To some very big links
create the opportunity to commit the crime, so he's
to be on a boy scout, camping trip. We
we mention that he was a scout leader. Dishonor same one,
other neighbour right. He he was on a scout keeping tribune and left and came home. Did this deed and cleaned up and in
back to the camp. I get he's using facets of
Venus crimes dead. So what's the point
there. They he thought, worked or he thought,
We're good ideas are excited ham right. Some combination of that the taking of the pictures he did in in a couple of instances
he used this and he's a cop
but ruses. Although they were different,
and then he uses this boy scout,
being trip twice first
I'll, buy the s cold night below
freezing. He has to invent an excuse to get away from the camp. I think last time I was at a headache: I've got to drive into town to get some some like that, wasn't feeling aspirin nerve. He wasn't feeling well or some, but
events in excuse and he d
I'm back to his parents, home and in north wichita. Again
saying that park city is up some of suburb, of which talk missed, that making assumption there, because he's he's, probably not driving that far too
Wichita changes out of his scout uniform gets into
he causes hit clothes and
his car, I think at a church
and ass he had in in previous
instances he set off on foot for
laura Davis's house.
when readership Zob dolores
still awake, apparently
he's reading a book in bed.
and he stopped- cannot not start but kind weighted
stout outside of her house. He waited
for her to turn off the light. Go to sleep. He
breaks through the sliding glass door dear uses a concrete blocky fines, which seems like overkill. Thank you definitely
hear him come another point how she had area that I would think so, so she
does because comes out. The bedroom
apparently, when I read taken some thinking
someone had driven their car through the house of a so so loud think pretty loud, but it turn
to be raider, so he is his feet
if he play this town boys he's on the run from the cops yeah. I think
goes back to one that
used in the first couple of murders, which was
either a vagrant or among the run, but the
The bulk of it is, I just need
food money in a car right again
I'm gonna die you up and I'm gonna get out of here. Some up.
Trying to think. Why uses that, I guess is it? Does he think why?
and he wants them to give up the keys to the car. That's his get away,
yes, and then does it, I'm guessing heat
Instead by telling him that look, I'm just on the run, I the keys to the cars and cash
the thai yeah that
puts him at ease he's thinking? They won't struggle as much because they think that he's just going to ties up and let us go just give him what he wants and all will be good.
but we know he never does that. Why
Thank you. I think it is absolutely right because in the previous one we talked about the fact
he actually, I think he told-
the victim wearily that he was gonna raper right in the previous couple.
think he had said that either in the press,
of tying up right before tying up. Well, she
obviously didn't want that. No no woman would write and she put up ahead
a fine, so I thank you
back to the one
or I just need this- this ness, but
The tie. You are you
we'll get out. I won't harm you type of play, so handcuffs this one at first at first.
Then he takes her back and ties are up much her how she she gets tied up this time. I know she strangled with the pantyhose again seems to be his latest sway to strangle
It must have a fascination with pantyhose or some because it could he used anything ready, could use the phone cord lamp cord belt about any type of thing,
angle, but he dearly like those nylons for some at least two or three times he used pantyhose. That mean that has some significance. It has too many. Does it
again worry he's in the house. He takes the personal items now. This is where it goes.
to the he did this to murders back re worried, takes her wrapped up in a blank
and
He is putting her in the trunk. I don't know if it's in his gets at this point in her car, so she her bodies wrapped in a blank.
In her trunk. Then he dropped
it off
point he realizes that he doesn't have a three fifty seven.
right. He had it when he went into the house, but he doesn't have it with a male so now
kind of her out worse my gun
and you realize that is left it at the victims house. So he goes back to retrieve the gun. So is that this point is not afraid that he's gonna get caught for a coffin
so he tries back. I don't know if it goes back at this point in his car. We knows no bounds there. Yet
He does what he's there so heap. He goes back and gets, gets the finds the gun
the gun, and then he,
drives away and eventually dispose.
the body
like I was true three back where he just Canada,
the body on the side of the road under some trees. Yet for some brush on it or something yeah he's not going through any big effort to
dig a hole or try to he's not trying to hide these bodies at all
You know really weird: I e how he took it,
another level. We remove the body. So then
back to he changes back into a scowl uniform, ultimately ends up back at this got here right cup
What things I had written down, apparently hee hee
drew a sketch of the law
his final moments
sometime soon
after the murder.
I don't know that will obviously it must have been found in his possession when he's out
we caught because I'm in the house they would have known about it right. The other thing is that I thought he threw
her car keys on the roof.
Idea why it makes no sense to me but doesn't mean
read it somewhere, I wrote down so it takes.
is your body way off and her car, and that goes back and parks a card and throws the keys upon the roof.
But that does not yet right. That's not the end of the story, because the
very next night. He leaves
boy scout camp again,
He drives to the spot where he had dumped her body in
takes pictures up. So I dont know if he
in a hurry. Things went born right that first night and he forgot to, but he had been
he'd. Gotten into this habit of taking pictures
is probably is momentum, mementoes right and so that's.
Were eaten away at him. That hey, I didn't take my pictures, so the next
it goes back and he be photographs, the body
and ultimately ends up, have an encounter with the police officer
place where he was changed.
Clothes, I'm sure, maybe back into his boyscout clothes. It doesn't say that, but I'm not sure and other interesting fact,
well. This one is that the losses son happens to be a law enforcement officer, he's the one I believe
the body, and I had one thing and one other thing
written down that that was interesting and that was that dumb guide said he's not trying to
conseil. These bodies, but a pair
where he had been dug a grave for Dolores
for some reason they didn't use it. He didn't put her in it, but at some point he does
go back to this grave,
in the grave
He has a mask on
and using the old people.
or cameras that we all remember from back in the day, right and some type of
a cord that he's rigged up
today to set your phone on your phone,
You can timer yet your camera, whatever on a timer back, then he must have
deb, some kind of
condition to allow
to take us. What would now
call selfie.
lying in this grave that he had dug fur delors, but he's got a mask on beaches. A cave selfie me happy
kay, selfie, but ultimately again, this is something that that they find pro
weebly in his possession, because he you know he would have kept all this. This is all probably packed in a ticket. This is stuff that he would have pulled out
from time to time maybe was up in the tree house
the tree house a of serial killers do that right they take mementoes. They they
get em out later on and breed live. What day where we know he was doing well, we do know something
is officially his last murder. In that
I ninety one, we ve
he told everyone that he's not caught until two thousand five, that's a long time it or where to go
what happened where he doesn't kill anybody, apparently, because we think he would have
fast to it. The only couple
things we know and
You touched on this in the very first episode. That was that in ninety one
that's when he was hired as the supervisor of the compliance department, their impart city right. That's
got all that power and he was.
Giving the folks of park city a hard time. I think so
You had said back then that that alone
probably saved some number of lives,
If so, I think it was an outlet for him for sure I guess
for me. The one thing I can't figure out is
we we agree that raiders, a sexual sadist right,
we agree with that. Absolutely so that that Paul and we'll caught.
drags because he calls a fax factor ex does
go away. I meet
I just don't feel he
if kills again, if he's not call,
Would he have ever killed again and why
Why not aware
the
compulsion or
yeah me too, on frog demon, as you rightly called frog demon yeah, don't move
so when did he start working at the church?.
I don't know, I think he was at the church for quite a while. I don't know many actually cause. We know he took one body there right yeah at some point he was elected as some kind of
president of the kind.
Nation. They called it the other there's something.
and I dont know the answer. So it's just
put out? If anybody knows, I think anybody it only person knows him right.
and we got a lotta soundbites for furred dennis,
later, but I don't have anything of him for I never.
Read anything that talked about how he was able to satisfy this
actual sadism part of his problem.
these either the three or four
hey. This is that he took before
or this long long fourteen year period
I think judge, waller arrest on either hand. Take he just wanted to know about the crimes and yet
did not hear him talk about the delors Davis
so let's hear that required
that particular day. I had some commitments. I left those went to one place changed my clothes wanted another place to park. My car finally made arrangements on my kit kit, my clothes and then walk to that residence after spending some time with that residents very cold at night and reservations about going in, like I had taken place before, and I really couldn't figure out how to get in and she was in the house. So I finally just selected a concrete block and through through the plate, glass window on the eastern himalayan are worthless. Residents located on hillside, but I couldn't give you address was probably sixty one sixty two something on sixty two something north or south north north side. All right, so you used a concrete block to break a window like glass window patio door. What happened that noise? I just went in. She came out of the bedroom and thought that a car had hit her house, and I told her that I was. I use the the roofs of the thing wanted. I was on the run and food car warm warm up, and then I asked her handcuffed. Her doctor told her that I would like to get some food get a keizer car and had a rest assured. You want to talk with her a little bit calmed her down a little bit and then eventually I checked the. I think she was still handcuffed. I went back and check out where the car was simulated, getting some food odds and ends in the house that I was leaving then went back and removed her handcuffs and then tied her up and then eventually strangled her or say eventually strike well after I tied her up and went through some things in the room there and then and then strangled them when we were looking for something was a personal items. Yes, I'd take some personal items from there. You take personal lives and every one of these incidents I did on the hedge. I don't remember a thing as mickey's place. The charles would get the watch and the radio, I don't think identity and rights lions snow- I don't think so box. Yes, I picked some things but fox because hit and miss alright, but even if it was control situation where I had more time, I'd make something, but if it if it was a infusion and other things I did as I was trying to get out of there aren't sorted regard for the day was mad at you went around the room took a few personal things. What did you do then strangled her? What did you strangler with any hills? What happened I kind of like mrs hedge, I already figured out my ahead. You don't plan on leaving and put her in a blanket and drove her to the arbiter in the trunk of the car even strangled her to death. He hasn't put her in her car, her car or car in the trunk of her car. What happened? I really had a commitment I needed to go to so I moved her to one spot took her out of her car. This gets complicated, then the stuff I had close gun, whatever I picked up to another spot in her car dump that all ok then took her car back to her house and left that. Okay in the interim, I took her car back to your grouse. In the interim. I realized that I had lost. One of my guns dropped it somewhere. So I was just trying to figure out where my gun was so. I went back in the house realized I had dropped in when I went into when I broke the plate glass window, it dropped below the four right there and I found it right there. So that's all that problem anyway, I went back out through the keys checked the car all the way through the feasible top the roof of the house walk from her car back to my car, took my car drove it back and I either dropped more stuff off or I picked her up and put them in my car and then drove up northeast of Sedgwick county and dropped her off underneath the bridge the sea.
I can't see a but give me an hour, sittin here laughing as raiders talking, because
meet me sounds like a bumbling idiot
a drama keys at into where they were
popping sound. You heard that was not us that was really dennis raider, like a ten year old kid pop in his
mouth or who is trying to think just very
very strange yeah again
I know this is
many, many years after he committed thea murder. But again
I no remorse. No, basically just like he's just trying to tell you
Pretty nonchalant yeah, so I went there did this yeah then I did that. But you know it's funny. It is a long time afterwards
I don't know that if he had was given,
that statement the day after that, it would be any different
I don't know it's a psychopath right here,
he has no empathy now his
we're going to hear later, a little bit more from him in his own words he's going to act like he does, but I don't think he does and I think he's you know still think
that without him doing this, you you wouldn't
you wouldn't have been able to find out. That was me ethic kansas,
thing that he feels is still helping everybody out
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to get into the fat. Some fascinating parts of of the
Of the case, where he's taunting
the media and the police and his ultimate capture.
I gibbs this is interesting part. For me, this is a part
and waitin for you really is. I mean
the murders are one thing
you feel for the victims. There's some
crazy, crazy thing,
that happen, but
craziness for me happens
starting in two thousand and four so
dennis raider, has not killed anybody for
what is basically thirteen years.
And like we set, we don't know if you was go planning on ever killing anybody again right or if he would, it just lived out the rest of his life ass, a.
Church member compliant
officer, husband, father, where
No not yet this point he's in the clear
can do whatever he wants. He doesn't have any
come on down on him. So, but what
happens is weak?
to some milestones. Rights
what's the matter,
Get to some anniversaries of the original killings
and the wichita press as they
we do in in a lot of areas where you have a point
famous unsolved crime. They come out with some stories. I think there were some book.
written, maybe you know about, beat.
kay and things like that.
Greater depth jealous. I think you get
jealous when he starts to see these stories
up again and
starts, which he had
done in this whole time he starts
indicating again with the local me,
yeah so
in march, two thousand, for he sends a letter to the witch
while and
which he claims that
the murderer of Vicki regularly
and he even encloses some photographs of the crime scene he's got a photocopy
her driver's licence. That is able to include,
I mean no doubt right. They they get this. The police gets this. They know without a doubt that whoever sent this letter betake as BT kay
The interesting thing about the letter is that the rich
in addressing uses, is bill. Thomas killed,
which obviously stands for pity
you and I can figure that out rigour out anybody can and we're not that bright, so they
that's his first letter and that kind of
you a kind of ramps him up
there again
letters receive. There is even more publicity. It's in the news. You know
yet nor hyped up his prey wherein some paeonies like the old days-
and he's all jazzed, so
of two thousand for
He sends a word puzzle to alone
station and
in june there is
package found taped to us.
Sign in Wichita, which contain very grave
big descriptions of the
terror, murders and the results
sketch that he called he called. The section
thrill is my bill now,
that buddy enclosed a chapter list for proposed book
It was entitled the bt case story. So
he's going all out this boy he's just saying
I'm back
it killed anybody. But I'm going to scare the living shit out of everybody in the wichita and surrounding area yeah take notice. I mean that's what he's doing he's telling everybody
notice, you're still here, don't think I went away
so people probably relaxed in that thirteen year, drought
and I guarantee I don't know what the gun laws were in the
native kansas in two thousand for
I imagine gun sales went through the roof if they can,
Carry I imagine that people were new flocking to get.
So in July, rater drops a package into the return slot at the public library in this path.
It contains a whole bunch of weird staffing.
There's a claim in there that he was responsible for the death of a nineteen year old, named jake Alan
a city called our bony, a kansas that had just occurred,
you're that month,
claim was ultimately ruled
false and death was was determine,
be a suicide, but
like we talked about he's claiming responsible
Eighty for things that he didn't even do
There is no doubt in my mind that if there were additional murders other than the ten he would have you
would have said he already. You know he had
ultimately missed the ten. He would have admitted to write anything else. I believe so
we we get october, two thousand for
and a manila envelope is dropped into a. U p s box in wichita
and this one's pretty safe, because
contains a series of cards that have
images on em they're they're. Just there. It's.
Adage of children and just these terrorizing images that are
stood on these cards. Also
included is a poem which threat
the life of the lead investigator? That's on the bt k case.
and this is
Crazy raider. Is he
includes its own fate.
Autobiography inside it
package which soup
Mostly contains details about his life, there
False right he's not given them real details right
these details were at some point released to the public.
He was smart enough to you're, not give them re real details. I guess so
there's a lot of packages here so
for two thousand for the police. The!
please now get a package from the bt kate killer, its found
in a place called murdoch park, and in this this package
greater puts the driver's license of Nancy fox, which
the police had known, was stolen, they never found her driver's license
Also in there's a doll.
at raider
somehow had bound. He bound
the hands in the feed any tied, a plastic
bag over the stalls head to show how
Did I I guess I mean we're terrorism, you now
sit around in his panties plane with dolls industry house.
in his tree house doing this thing I don't know
he could have. He wouldn't have been caught right,
He may have never been caught dna, but would have
maybe caught up with him at some point, but.
There's a good chance. He may have never been caught like the zodiac has never been cod right.
could somehow put this, maybe maybe this replaced.
Sexual aspect of it.
this taunting may
he got a similar thrill out of this, even though he did do you know what
thirteen fourteen years after his last murder,
So now we're all we're all the way to two thousand five
january-
raider leaves a he tries to leave a serial box.
Bed of a pickup
at home depot, but the owner
throw it away.
tosses it out, and it was later retrieved from the trash and the only reason that the they
looking for it is because raider
in a later message, asked what happened to this the box.
So that was something he tried to do that just didn't land. It didn't work because it's really proud of his cat and mouse game yeah. He. He really was now this.
the first time because of
I guess
formation that he had given the police. They were able to actually get a surveillance state,
from the home depot parking lot, they saw a figure driving
a black cheap cherokee stop
actually leave the the cereal
box in the pickup. Now they can't make it out. They don't know who it is it's pretty bright. You know distance shouldn't have to make a vehicle yeah, so they got the vehicle they can't tell who,
Exactly and then, in february, just a month later,
more postcard sent to local tv station.
he leaves another cereal box in a rural location. This one has one another doll
it's all bound up in
One is apparently meant to symbolise the murder of Josephine.
terror, and I know it's been a long time since episode one, but
Josephine was the
eleven year old in the
terror family that was was hung in the basement. So I cyril boxes
reference serial killer. Agnes, that's my thought. He business doesn't realise how they spell it or what that's that's my thought we know he's not here the smartest.
and I'm I'm torn on. That
I think in some ways he is intelligent and in some ways he's not
then again it could be part of the game right. He could be acting too. I think he strong people all fight act.
less intelligent than he is. I don't know yet we talk,
that where he did that his writings.
then, we get in to him
writing some letters to the police.
And in these letters raider asked the police if he can put information on a floppy disk.
and whether or not a feed. If he does this, can they trace it so
police and in their gone back through like newspaper ads and some things like that in a few
I've got some of these pictures. I've got the postcards. I've got the m some of this communication and so
Look for that on
sir gram in facebook. Another place.
But so the police are answering his question. Fire newspaper
in the wichita eagle and what do they tell him? What are they gonna time? Yeah
We can't we can't trace any
formation on floppy disk by all
Lastly, we all know now that they can write.
no date as ever, really gone
as ever deleted mushroom
yeah harmonise their that's. Why tell my kids be careful? What you put on the web, because it a live forever
a lot of that same thing goes with hard drives, and you even
race, a hard drive, there's some thirteen year old kid that kid.
In about three seconds, pull everything up that was ever on problems. She bleach it whatever that is whatever that software is. It was in the new sternly election god.
Must have missed that. I thought there you, I thought you were gonna, give more secrets. I thought we were gonna get gimme. Some can give too much worse. So now we ve we ve done
The part where raider one
to put information on a floppy it this
be his last communication with the median in police,
and he sends a floppy,
asking some most people nowadays, don't even know what the hell floppy disc is, but a lot
of us in our house
have to be. I mean we're in our forty, so yet he at least be in Europe
Thirty, probably to remember floppy disk, maybe
then we're talking, which floppy does the great big fight them.
We had the one that was actually floppy right or the one that was like the harder plastic through an average one yeah. I think
this time. This was the the
smaller plastic. One.
but he sends a memory ex floppy disk.
the media and the police.
February of two thousand five. Also, he puts in this package photo
b of the nineteen eighty nine novel about assume
oh killer. It was called rules of prey,
andy golden colored necklace with a large medallion
Any of that other stuff means
and I never read exactly what it was supposed to represent. Whether was the
the necklace in the medallion. I never read. If it was some, he took from a very came from the crime scene or work. It was supposed to symbolise something I just never got. I never got it.
The police have the disk its
not very hard for them to incur
The men
Data that's embedded on the disk
has basically this bunch a word documents that
had been saved on this disc
so they are able to get this method data on their off of it and it base
clean, tells them that it was you
was then these documents were saved at the christ, lutheran church, and
document was marked as la
being saved or modified by dennis than ever.
Ass name, but you said Dennis not
hard for them to
church has a website. So they do a quick search. The churches website and turns
That Dennis writer is the president of the
congregation council its at this point that police
began to survey o dennis raider. I mean they thereon right. He's he's almost as good as cod. At this point pretty much yeah
because don't they drive, buys housing.
They see a black sheep in the parking and the driveway and a new start, putting it an altogether,
yeah, they do the dune surveillance. They know he drives the black cheap
It's also during this period that they get a warrant for the
medical records of Dennis raiders daughter.
Are able to match her,
dna. I mean they don't even need his dna right
I'm not sure why they took
dna as Webster.
They day was easy for them to do that, because
have they didn't have to give him heads up that they were doing this.
So they wanted to make sure right, so they went and got them.
Dna.
before they went any before they went to him yeah so yeah they did
testing the dna and it comes back that its
it's a family match with
the seamen collected at earlier bt, K crime scene. You now go back to the fore
episode and even into the second. We are pretty graphic right.
guy left seamen everywhere. So wasn't your: they
obviously had samples of
Dna in and it came up as a match-
so they took that evidence. They took the black jeep and
at that point they knew they had enough and they
operator in February twenty fifth,
two thousand five when he's pretty close to his house
think they stopped in young people
to or from. But I did right. Error is down the head which tops
he's bomb unit truck to swat trucks,
cavy. I, which I assume is
this bureau of investigation fbi here, which we know is that
oh bureau of investigation. Eighty f,
he wasn't going anywhere now, so they had their head,
five six seven different
agencies can
John on raider and this.
This part, I rode down act I thought was, was really I think,
security was her mark up,
paul borders on a subway yeah. He just for the perimeter was right to strike
the perimeter permanent, but I had written down because I've found it. You know
I'm a humorous. I know it's hard to be humorous onward. Talking about such gruesome stuff, but
So they have raider in handcuffs and
The officer says
middle. Mr rater, do you know why you're going downtown and Dennis says
Yeah I've got my suspicions. Yes, that's all that's! Ices.
they. The police search, his home vehicle
they got. All these agencies are collecting all every
bit of evidence, computer equipment, they did collect data
pair of pantyhose from his shed. They also searched his church. His off
sit city hall,
a branch of the park city library, not exactly sure why they search that sad, because he,
I think that's where he may have the need
put some doubts and YAP here, so they removed
computers from everywhere
took his home computer. His work computer so
after his arrest, apparently raider talk to the police fur
Several hours- and it was
then that term- I guess he d
give a reason for why he resurfaced ethic married. We touched on it right there.
At the beginning of the segment but- and it was
because we have had several different reasons, but one of the big ones was
the release of this book called nightmare in Wichita. The hunt for the bt k strangler, which was written by
a man named Robert baby, I'm not
if he didn't like the way was written, but basically what he said was he wanted the opportunity to tell his story his own way.
he also in this is callouses I'll get out, but he also stated that he was bored
has his children had grown up and yet
It's a lot of time on his hands with nothing to do with I dress up. Dolls bind up dolls
scared the shit out of how many p
live in which tolerant all at that time in the surrounding areas? So
in February twenty six, that the witch top police department held their press conference
and they were able to announce that they had raider
in custody. Is the prime suspect in the bt k killings? They fall?
We charged him on february, twenty eightth, two thousand five
you know ultimately raider plead guilty to all ten murders. He gets.
ten consecutive life sentences, because I don't do that
at that yeah what seems like a lot better
It was said to be
a minimum of a hundred seventy five years with no chance for pearl is a long time. Yet
he's not get. Basically here is never get you never get any will use button what's alter.
Environment worries and their twenty three hours a day.
to come out for one hour of
What terry yard play eat and all that kind of stuff? So where are they say they do that for his own protection, because we know how they are
some. I wouldn't kill someone here, somebody what I got home so she for what he did to instantly here.
For a couple of different reasons. Right you. I think you are right to say it for what he did. Kids,
yeah josephine. First one right san, also fur notoriety notoriety. Exactly we ve seen that another case
is where prison, bread, yeah
get an amazing amount of notoriety from killing a big time. Yet, sir,
killer, though so he's in there.
think I read
New now, they've now valleys
It's like three hours outside of his confinement for good behaviour.
Am I a lot of the victims? Families are happy with that. They felt that he shouldn't get any special privileges that teaches
he'll be confined to twenty three hours in his.
Tiny little cell,
and- and I agree- I mean it's a fact that he gets out
sell for one hour to the sea daylights partly too much yet
thinking as as it as a dad or your husband
if that were a member of
I family, I dont, think I'd feel real good about that. I guess
the thing that gets me and not an absurd and want to get into a death penalty, debater or anything like that, but here
Kansas did reinstate the death penalty and ninety four, but
because his last murder was in ninety one. He was an eligible
even though they didn't catching you,
ten or eleven years after they had already reinstated the death penalty.
So there was a lot of evidence.
We touched on a little bit, but I wouldn't
just kind of go through some of real quick, because now,
it came out at trial because he confessed, he played guilty.
They had the dna which we talked about see men had dinner
from underneath fingernails of Vicki regularly
because she fought so
viciously and all that matched the did.
Of analysis on his grammar and writing in and they had some.
Computer communication type staff. They re butter to match
the matter that they knew that you pay for
That killer used to report the seventy seven murder was just blocks from his eighty t, secure
the ethical dimension that rate
lived on. The same shred is marlene hedge. We talk about that. You mentioned it in the very first step, so but Julie
terror and catherine bright. Both worked at the common company right. They put that together
well not. It was stated they're not doing the same exact period that rater work there. I think one of them was on one of them wasn't. I know at least I believe this
first victim, think Julie was but
sure about bright but they're at the same time, apparently
Confession took sixteen hours over sixteen hours and we ve played
the trunks of it. We're not yeah when his actual confession, but we played some stuff from his his. It wasn't
police confession right. What we're playing is from courtroom right, where the judge
asking him, but man out I'd like to listen to some of the actual. Please
confession, but it was so long that reportedly took over twenty
these two report at all while and it said that he went-
all ten murders in grisly grisly detail. We get to the centre.
and this is
something that
to me. I just found very very strange because we
at is he sends the ten life sentences hunter
only five years, no parole, but
raiders allowed to speak at his sentencing, which, I guess is normal
but he's allowed to speak for twenty five minutes which
seems like a pretty
long time you ve got to
lips that I want to play from his sentencing and then
talk about him a little bit but
they're just so strange. I had to include them.
the community, the family of victims, dishonored the snow and resolve self same. The call I would call the sexual predator the day is my final judgment. The court presented by the state or powerpoint presentation with very powerful, like a couple of things on my way out for the last but overall most of the is to the county I'll be proud to have a good steak. The evidence was there earlier dna blocking the way that I was going to get out. It is the remorse responsibility and corrections concepts of apology. The old me started: whatever it was factor as sexual predator volcano was the building. All those years was the hotel, probably the most devastating upsetting. Looking at everybody is the. I just don't know the center very selfish, the explode on that day and it did continue off and on the honesty. Shuffling is honestly, probably the first thing to the people that I encountered. The interest in ada was fine I'll, take your money and leave the honesty, my family, the lie chief piece of interest from employers in the county, the taxpayers' money. The responsibility is, I had pride back then some degree of trying to drop down so that the media seemed to brave the attention of the media. The years that, despite presentation during the presentation, all the archives that you can understand that I didn't think the bottom line of the old is a selfish, very just associated with society substitute for my own purposes and for the victims. He talks about being self centered. He is
Scully describing himself as a psychopath cycle.
as self centred on aid,
feel empathy for others, has no prob
with hurting others has no deal no shame.
No remorse. Now. I think
is putting on an act mike.
You think too,
yeah. He was going down the standing ovation for the county and away they yeah. He congratulated the press
peters and what thanks for
Asking me what a good job they did and binding me in but evidence,
Appointed matter he news caught and the one thing I think,
Raider was able to do.
a very early age, as I think he learned
how to live in in two different worlds?.
ready at one world where he was a husband and father. He had multiple jobs that he was able to keep fur
Indeed, periods of time- and he had all that canada of compartmentalized.
Then he had this other area where,
froggy the frog frog demon that you talk about right factor, eggs.
I never checked runway project here and he he said he knew what the age of ten something wasn't right with him. Yeah
Was different binding he had
I think you started early learning how to
on this side. I'm norm
and on this side I let my freak flag fly
he fell away to be deceptive without being caught
is able to do
Successfully for
what thirty years since he started killing but even gone back to, like you, said, aged ten. He was able to do for a long time,
yeah I mean he so dreaming that I mean there's been books right
lot slot even gaining gonna use, catalan aspiration for even king on one of his books. Lots
books, lots of movies another what the red dragon book they did. All I did read that, which is part of the.
science and lambs France,
Reinsurance shows
thomas hairs, definitely intriguing,
intriguing killer.
yeah yeah. He I mean he was fascinating. He's he's one that I knew I I wanted to do early on.
I guess we're gonna, do a mix of.
egg timers. In the end,
smaller ones will probably do a bunch smaller ones before we do the next big timer. But let me play the sentencing
The second sentencing clip because it
it's absolutely fascinating what he too.
is to say in the time that he has
The gameboy and I hope, it'll fit on the media because he uses some of this for the leader cause. I didn't notice much of the time or grandparents' farm, let into as a kid at the high school for two years walked the halls. The wine shared the same teachers, although they would have been over the opponent just like I did probably the village of the above water, the status, the animals the show. I realize that several years probably hasn't gone hands. I don't think the sails. I was always pretty good animals. I have. I have a fondness for animals. I have pets, I dunno she had and I read somewhere. She had her last christmas, the wonderful time the opposite. She was a wonderful person, and I did I did tracker. Was the wonderful young lady, the organized hard worker, the hedge she's, a neighbor, the one about my way to a gardener? I love the garden, the flowers, the church, the drive into wisconsin the air force. I was an air force. He was a husband as a husband, although I always wanted to be a pilot always had a fascination with aerodynamics. He was a pilot and even thought about taking private lessons in the car. Our threads were close. The failure carol is a lot like my wife, the kids and she was working for the last like a daughter that age, the barbie dolls, the draw the someone mentioned that she was like peace and hot the two he was just like me. One time avoided all the many many many memories, the the glory, but had a lot of memories as a kid. The dogs and then you'd have to have in your kit the choir, the people I didn't know very much of the fireplace and the hyperspace music. That's one thing I always wanted one with was the church that I went to St Andrews, the hope of someday
I don't know why, but that makes me physically sick to my stomach, actually find it find right. You know,
to say that
He was so alike that the victims were so like him and he was like them. I was in that
court, and I was one of the victim's family out. A piece
I made sick anyway, but to say that
like poetry, like poetry, were lot alike in our day,
the dog at a dog.
I don't know what it says about me, but that one
made me
more. I had a more
stronger reaction to that one. Then I did
He talked about each murder.
for some reason, and I
that says about me, but results.
It was almost like he was eulogizing each
the ten victims
and saying how great they were, but I killed them.
I don't know there was this sum is why I want to play that clip. There was something pretty sick, actually yeah
There was something about that. I just had to play
so gibbey. When we made it, I may we wrapped up what c
to be.
What was ultimately be an upright four and a half hours on bt k here. But there was this
so much
formation to him again
some people may say we spent too much time when in the tumor
detail we're getting a lot of
feedback that the people liked the details. I there is some happy medium in there and will find it as we go along or we just need people to keep giving us feedback yeah. You know he used twitter and use the facebook and instagram
Let mike- and I know how you feel, but I think you
some of these are fascinating, but
People know who Dennis rader BT k is in
A lot of the other ones that will do may be, are gonna, be late,
Well known, but that's it
that's it further. The Dennis raider story
for me for you, this wrapped up
in its raider saga,.
Stay safe and keep your own.
time ticking.
Transcript generated on 2023-04-09.