I everyone welcome depths of five of the true crime, all the time podcast, as always on your host MIKE ferguson, I've got my obsession gibbey back with me again today, absolutely right off the bat. This is part three of the day. Raider, BT, K story so if you ve not listened to parts one and two, you gotta stop the podcast go back. download and listen to those first or you're missing out in this one's, probably not going to make as much sense

gimme. What's going on today, man nice to be in europe studio. Today, yeah. So This shows different in a couple of different ways. The first one is gibbons studio for the first time we got it all of our mike's in and everything set up- we were doing it by skype before but You know we're almost professional almost so from now on will be in studio, and hopefully the sound is good and Direction value continues to go up and up now,

most of you are familiar with Jeffrey Dahmer. We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted individual mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer, on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle war takes us through the story, starting with Dahmer, his childhood and the first murder all the way through his death. The podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives, journalists and others close to the case to explore exactly what happened and how. his killer came to be so. This sounds like a very deep dark and for me, anytime, you get never before heard audio from people very close to the case. Ahmet, listen to mind of a monster on apple podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, please that shows website it. True crime, all time, dot, com, while you're there make sure you click on the amazon banner for any of your amazon shopping

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case. The listener would actually skype in and and be a part of the show. So if that's something interest. You please reach out all contact information is on the page. I give you. What do you think? Are we ready for the final part of the Dennis raider bt case aga, think we are now. I am I don't know about you. I had to take up simple showers after or not not together. No, I don't want to start any crazy rumors, but I draw the line somewhere. Yeah you gotta, draw it somewhere, yeah, alright, so we're picking back up and september of nineteen eighty six and at this point raiders got his eye on a woman named Vicki regularly twenty eight years old mother of two and raider word. You know we again. We ve talked about this a lot, but here he's goin is trolling in stocking phase.

He would walk by Vicky's house a lot in It was said that he would hear vicki playing the piano. And so eventually she becomes a project again. You talked about that right can locks and honour yep as he does. Sometime after I things around ten o clock in the morning, radio shows up at vicky's door now did I this is somewhere along the line, whatever he does jobs and, right now before he goes, an authority. go somewhere any changes close and that's it onto the yeah the church or work, but he summaries changing clothes before he goes over there. Not so I think what I hope talking about. Is he changes into a telephone, repairman outfit right now that I'm going exactly so

the. I read that so he's got on the telephone. Repairman outfit complete with hard hat So he went all out for this one you know his ruse. He liked to call his ruses right he's gonna, sit close on then hit clothes I assume we're going to find out that he's got his hit. Kit them as well, He somehow manages to get Vicki to allow him in using this. phone repairman ruse to check the phone line and not again its eighty six those of you out there. Don't don't fall for that here it like he was fiddling with the phone messing with it. it's around with a mild, I think, was her two year old plan on the floor. I read having read somewhere part of the room was he said he had a as some kind of a new gas. That would make the phone better or something like that, but it was pretty

quickly after that dead, he tells Vicki that she and to be tied up rates were we're. Getting again too familiar to toy with raider, where he's got a gun tell person he's going, tie him up forces vicki into the bedroom as is tying rob battling the shit out of me: she's, pretty strong. She she'd kind of breaks, loose yeah she's, unlike one of the other ones, that I don't want to say, went along, but was giving him verbal em, a lot of time, but wasn't you're putting up a physical fight. right that wasn't VIC I mean she put up a pretty the big time battle, scratch team. clawing adding doing whatever she could ultimately rebate. Rater prevails here, he's bees, Your stronger- and he is at one point

able to secure her with ropes and he proceeds to strangle hearted death using pantyhose, not sure the first time that he used pantyhose, because them Talk about him, leaving some nodded pantyhose was that in the was that marine hedge in the last one can't remember. this was one of them was one of them, how we weren't sure if that was the literature or not, but at one when he did leave. You know some pantyhose at another crime scene another thing that he does with this victim that he did in previous situations was that he photographed the body in a bunch of different poses in that This is this. This is kind of the second time he's done that right, yeah. I believe it is the second time so it's almost like either He enjoyed that and wanted to continue that,

but he didn't remember from the home, like you did the last one rate where he went to the church and took the photos, write them when he actually removed and to remove that victim. From the home and re, like you said this one he just took them, took the pictures of a bit but again he leaves and her car and economies in a hurry cause. I think I remember that when he gets there, she tells him that her husband should be calling soon or honour on his way home soon. So he kind of cleans up pretty fast thinking that the husbands, you know, his way home. He I think, there's them some I read, raider stated afterwards that had the hudson come home. He would have killed him to hear the key was the year with men wasn't really is strong point now, then. I think he s why he made every attempt

try to steer away from from men, benin if they were in the house and such yet is part of his trolling phase. Star in phase he did ever and he could to make sure that the woman would be alone, you didn't working in the bright case because katharine's brother, Kevin came home and that didn't work too well for raider ready. He wasn't it or to handle things thing was cabin. Was cover So I think, after that he was, he was Larry. I ve had the tank with men pride, because he he was a little bit about a coward, probably when it came to that So Vicky's husband does come home, though not too long. After raider gets out are there and actually quick enough that He sees his own car being driven away by raider going in the opposite direction, Please said he couldn't identified the driver, but he knew and vaguely.

you mentioned the two year old son Brandon, so he walks in the house, Brandon stone the living rooms on the tens, playing doing whatever dope does lookin for Vicky, can't find her ultimately it does, however, find her on the bed room floor. Behalf the bed calls the police caused paranoid that point, it was nine one one. I guess the deadline, nine one one and eighty six, I'm sure we did probably didn but she's Russell rushed to the hospital paramedic. Tried to revive or but know who wasn't to be, and she was pronounced dead. Not too long after getting to the house, so bt case driving around in there in their car he's looking for a place dispose of evidence and he autumn parks. The the way card just a couple. From their home gets out, and ass. He had done on a yoke pretty.

it's all of his previous incidents. He walks on foot back to. He had parked his own car and ages. Clothes was a dylan's I know I don't have. I don't have a written down, maybe he'll say it, because we do have him on tape describing it and nobody, by the way emailed me to tell me don't ok, we stone. I was shocked at the lack of listening. Participation us. We sure somebody from that area was gonna, emo in and say dylan's it department. story, dumb ass, but now I did I was waiting on. It still might come so You know that there are some things that happen to vicky's. been bill after this incident, because Raiders, never suspected of this crime he's not backed it of any of the crimes and

as we have already said, two thousand for two thousand five is so disappointed. its nineteen eighty six and no, Where has lost his wife he's ass. The mother of is too, children, zig, estimate that another child too. He was dad intensely for this crime That's not too surprising, because normally the husband is typically this and the sad eyes, It said that vickie killed. Then he had lost her. it's also said that he was suspected of this crime for the next eighteen years. Until was ultimately proven that it had been committed by dennis writer, Luckily, he was not charge; or prosecuted or even jail we hear that a lot on on some of these cases where people are

in exonerated now by by dna about lot of people, I'm a big apology down the road did the police force from what it sounded like. well, they should have the the better. The spouse is always normally the this person that is looked at, but It is sad that this cloud of suspicion hung over him for such a long time. So let's hear rate or talk the vicar dickie regularly murder. In his own words again,

it was a regular was another potential victim. I went through those different phases locked in on her, as I would call it and decided that I would try that day. I used a ruse as a telephone repairman to get into the house drove there in my own personal car around lunchtime during lunch hour or approximately that time and earlier in the morning that and like I actually went somewhere else and changed to change things, but when I called maya it close, close, close up basically different, you know things that I'd need to get rid of later, not not same kind of clothes. I had an eye on what other better word use it. The crime clothes were good clothes. I just hold it close anyway. I walked from a car as a telephone repairman as I walked there at dawn, the telephone helmet had a briefcase went to one other address just to kind of size of the house. I'd walked by it a couple of times, but I wanted to check a little bit more. As I approached it, I could hear a panel sound and with this other door knocked on them and told them that were recently working on telephone repairs in the area and went to her went to her office door asked her by shepherd telephone once inside. Did she allow you in? Yes, she did what happened. I went over and found out where the telephone was stimulated. That was checking the telephone ahead of make believe instrument and after she was looking away. I drew a pistol at her and asked her if you go back to bedroom with me this society, three fifty seven magnum know this. This was a different. The argued asked her to go back to the bedroom with you after drawing a pistol. Yes, sir, what happened? I told her. I went back bedroom, which I was going to have to tie her up. She was very upset and I think we, I used the material that was in there and that that's another thing not sure, but I think they use material that they had in their bedroom and after I tied her hands, she broke that and we started fighting and we've bought quite a bit back and forth. She was physically fighting. Yes, sir. What happened finally got the hand on her and got a nylon sock and started strangling the wrap. The stocking around her neck is what happened I finally gained and gained honor and in a third down, and I thought she was dead, but apparently she wasn't. But after after she was down and not moving anymore, I rearranged her clothes a little bit and pick some photos and a three one. I remember and then, after that I was lot of commotion. She had mentioned about her husband coming home, so I got out there pretty quick. The dogs were raising a lot of pain in the back doors windows roll all over the house, a lot of noise when we were fighting. I left pretty quickly after that, but everything that briefcase and enter I'd already gone through her purse got the keys in the car and use their car for my getaway car all right. You indicate that you thought she was dead, discover later that she was not bit yes, I guess the paramedics arrived and they tried to attempt over reliever river that fail that only she died there on the way to the hospital or at the hospital. I don't recollect you later by that she did die as a result of your strangulation. Yes, a couple of things are gibi

and almost every one of these. He says I thought she was down but then found out that she wasn't right. Have you ever noticed that oh yeah yeah? It's almost like key? He thinks he's killed them, but I think what is done is done they they pass out right. That's what I was thinking in any. Really verifying you know by looking for a policy on the seat there actually dead yeah just that that jumped out of me, because he said that on almost every one I thought she was down. He said a bunch of battle. Tara Pham right. I think almost almost every one he's had a go back. A second time around. It seems like

yeah, and he did talk about his hit close true crime. All the time is sponsored by better help. You know getting to know yourself can be a lifelong process, especially because we're always growing and changing. I know not the same person at fifty that I was at twenty. I have things that bother me worry me today that I don't even think about when I was twenty years old, better help connect you with a licensed therapist. Who can take you on that journey of self discovery from wherever you are? I've used better help and I've found it to be an extremely beneficial service. If you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try, you can do the whole thing online, they've designed it so that it's convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. All you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Discover your potential with better help, visit, better help, dot com, slash te cat, tch TT today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help. H e l, p, dot com, slash tikka, you know, folks, I love audible, audible. Lets me enjoy all of my audio entertainment in one as an audible member. You can choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog, including the latest best sellers, a new release. You also get access to a growing selection of included, audiobooks, audible, originals and podcasts. Like I mentioned, you can download a stream included titles. All you want. I liked the fact that audible goes with me. Wherever I go, whether I want to listen to a podcast or a different type of title. It's there from new members can try audible free for thirty days, visit, audible, dot com, slash te cat, tch, TT or text

to five hundred five hundred: that's audible, dot, com, slash d cat or text, t c, a t t to five hundred five hundred. Well, it's a we're we're now at the last murder murder would not occur until nineteen ninety one. So again, we've talked about this before, but bt k takes breaks, yeah or to go yeah was he do I mean it was five years right. I think there's very few killers or serial killers that can put off their factor acts call it, gives us what he called it right whatever, that is that driving them further, of time that he does tween crimes that that fascinates me because I I dont think most serial killer,

we are able to do it like that, but he he some somehow does, and I I don't think that he committed any other ones in between cause. I think he would revel in taking the credit for right, yeah, I think he would have. I think he I think he owned up to everything and he even tried to take credit at some point. Four for one for things that he didn't do it do right that that we were private talk about a little bit later So it's ninety ninety one raider at this point is is forty. Five years old, he focuses in on sixty two year old name, dolores Davis and actually did read what you and I had touched on earlier? Was that at this point had become very leary of younger women where he thought potentially a younger male could be involved in ice,

forty five years old, which not to give away anything but about our age. I don't feel like he should have been that way, but he obviously, although he was able to overpower women, vaccinated in specimen like or yeah. Maybe that's what it is is not buff and right. It doesn't work out. People are going to laugh. That knows we say that it so focused on Dolores David that's his project, And she only lives about a mile or to away from where he does, but is no. There was no indications that he knew her personally there was with marine hedge, but one questions I that did you conduct. but for me, is spent with marine hatch weiss. Why so close? Why not go out a little fun? there now. Ultimately, it doesn't matter right because catch him all his victims,

the city at an don't know how big that city is compared to you know, say dayton it's a lot bigger. So I'm, even if even if you were in dayton and did this right. It would be very hard to come across money that No, you know of you well wait a minute we talkin part city. Are we talking wichita talking parts, ok park city, I'm sure smaller than than which take as a lot bigger right a park city I think, is probably a suburb of which at all, is right. I'm guessing nobody's gonna correct me because nobody will send the email to tell me what joneses yeah we're so then they're not going to correct me and say whatever? I want that's right, too small so yeah me. I do think that he's got a set on him because he has problem. Like you, said, a mile away, and he has no issues right. I mean he's picking his victims.

a mile away from his home. I can't imagine We have no fear in essence right so, like you said, is it stones is it he does give a shit is ignorance, I dont think its ignorance and I think he well, I think you think smarter than the police right, sir, I think he thinks he's smarter than what he really is right and I add to his excitement level. Knowing that you know here he's doing something just in know future talks are a mile down from where he lives, and I dare you to find out that it's me, So, let's talk about dolores Davis. She's, like we said, sixty two she's living hark city, and she's running a house is not close to other houses, so she's got a little, but a space perfect target perfect target rate or while his smile he's doing is trolling and stocking. He notices dolores he's

or two at some point confirm that she single she loves alone. She has You know neighbours there. Close so, like you said, put perfect target for him yeah again, we said this is last murder but gig. To some very big links create the opportunity to commit the crime, so he's to be on a boy scout, camping trip. We we mention that he was a scout leader. Dishonor same one, other neighbour right. He he was on a scout keeping tribune and left and came home. Did this deed and cleaned up and in back to the camp. I get he's using facets of Venus crimes dead. So what's the point there. They he thought, worked or he thought,

We're good ideas are excited ham right. Some combination of that the taking of the pictures he did in in a couple of instances he used this and he's a cop but ruses. Although they were different, and then he uses this boy scout, being trip twice first I'll, buy the s cold night below freezing. He has to invent an excuse to get away from the camp. I think last time I was at a headache: I've got to drive into town to get some some like that, wasn't feeling aspirin nerve. He wasn't feeling well or some, but events in excuse and he d I'm back to his parents, home and in north wichita. Again saying that park city is up some of suburb, of which talk missed, that making assumption there, because he's he's, probably not driving that far too Wichita changes out of his scout uniform gets into

he causes hit clothes and his car, I think at a church and ass he had in in previous instances he set off on foot for laura Davis's house. when readership Zob dolores still awake, apparently he's reading a book in bed. and he stopped- cannot not start but kind weighted stout outside of her house. He waited for her to turn off the light. Go to sleep. He breaks through the sliding glass door dear uses a concrete blocky fines, which seems like overkill. Thank you definitely hear him come another point how she had area that I would think so, so she does because comes out. The bedroom apparently, when I read taken some thinking someone had driven their car through the house of a so so loud think pretty loud, but it turn

to be raider, so he is his feet if he play this town boys he's on the run from the cops yeah. I think goes back to one that used in the first couple of murders, which was either a vagrant or among the run, but the The bulk of it is, I just need food money in a car right again I'm gonna die you up and I'm gonna get out of here. Some up. Trying to think. Why uses that, I guess is it? Does he think why? and he wants them to give up the keys to the car. That's his get away, yes, and then does it, I'm guessing heat Instead by telling him that look, I'm just on the run, I the keys to the cars and cash the thai yeah that puts him at ease he's thinking? They won't struggle as much because they think that he's just going to ties up and let us go just give him what he wants and all will be good.

but we know he never does that. Why Thank you. I think it is absolutely right because in the previous one we talked about the fact he actually, I think he told- the victim wearily that he was gonna raper right in the previous couple. think he had said that either in the press, of tying up right before tying up. Well, she obviously didn't want that. No no woman would write and she put up ahead a fine, so I thank you back to the one or I just need this- this ness, but The tie. You are you we'll get out. I won't harm you type of play, so handcuffs this one at first at first.

Then he takes her back and ties are up much her how she she gets tied up this time. I know she strangled with the pantyhose again seems to be his latest sway to strangle It must have a fascination with pantyhose or some because it could he used anything ready, could use the phone cord lamp cord belt about any type of thing, angle, but he dearly like those nylons for some at least two or three times he used pantyhose. That mean that has some significance. It has too many. Does it again worry he's in the house. He takes the personal items now. This is where it goes. to the he did this to murders back re worried, takes her wrapped up in a blank and He is putting her in the trunk. I don't know if it's in his gets at this point in her car, so she her bodies wrapped in a blank.

In her trunk. Then he dropped it off point he realizes that he doesn't have a three fifty seven. right. He had it when he went into the house, but he doesn't have it with a male so now kind of her out worse my gun and you realize that is left it at the victims house. So he goes back to retrieve the gun. So is that this point is not afraid that he's gonna get caught for a coffin so he tries back. I don't know if it goes back at this point in his car. We knows no bounds there. Yet He does what he's there so heap. He goes back and gets, gets the finds the gun the gun, and then he, drives away and eventually dispose. the body like I was true three back where he just Canada,

the body on the side of the road under some trees. Yet for some brush on it or something yeah he's not going through any big effort to dig a hole or try to he's not trying to hide these bodies at all You know really weird: I e how he took it, another level. We remove the body. So then back to he changes back into a scowl uniform, ultimately ends up back at this got here right cup What things I had written down, apparently hee hee drew a sketch of the law his final moments sometime soon after the murder. I don't know that will obviously it must have been found in his possession when he's out we caught because I'm in the house they would have known about it right. The other thing is that I thought he threw her car keys on the roof. Idea why it makes no sense to me but doesn't mean

read it somewhere, I wrote down so it takes. is your body way off and her car, and that goes back and parks a card and throws the keys upon the roof. But that does not yet right. That's not the end of the story, because the very next night. He leaves boy scout camp again, He drives to the spot where he had dumped her body in takes pictures up. So I dont know if he in a hurry. Things went born right that first night and he forgot to, but he had been he'd. Gotten into this habit of taking pictures is probably is momentum, mementoes right and so that's. Were eaten away at him. That hey, I didn't take my pictures, so the next it goes back and he be photographs, the body

and ultimately ends up, have an encounter with the police officer place where he was changed. Clothes, I'm sure, maybe back into his boyscout clothes. It doesn't say that, but I'm not sure and other interesting fact, well. This one is that the losses son happens to be a law enforcement officer, he's the one I believe the body, and I had one thing and one other thing written down that that was interesting and that was that dumb guide said he's not trying to conseil. These bodies, but a pair where he had been dug a grave for Dolores for some reason they didn't use it. He didn't put her in it, but at some point he does go back to this grave, in the grave He has a mask on and using the old people.

or cameras that we all remember from back in the day, right and some type of a cord that he's rigged up today to set your phone on your phone, You can timer yet your camera, whatever on a timer back, then he must have deb, some kind of condition to allow to take us. What would now call selfie. lying in this grave that he had dug fur delors, but he's got a mask on beaches. A cave selfie me happy kay, selfie, but ultimately again, this is something that that they find pro weebly in his possession, because he you know he would have kept all this. This is all probably packed in a ticket. This is stuff that he would have pulled out from time to time maybe was up in the tree house the tree house a of serial killers do that right they take mementoes. They they

get em out later on and breed live. What day where we know he was doing well, we do know something is officially his last murder. In that I ninety one, we ve he told everyone that he's not caught until two thousand five, that's a long time it or where to go what happened where he doesn't kill anybody, apparently, because we think he would have fast to it. The only couple things we know and You touched on this in the very first episode. That was that in ninety one that's when he was hired as the supervisor of the compliance department, their impart city right. That's got all that power and he was. Giving the folks of park city a hard time. I think so You had said back then that that alone probably saved some number of lives, If so, I think it was an outlet for him for sure I guess

for me. The one thing I can't figure out is we we agree that raiders, a sexual sadist right, we agree with that. Absolutely so that that Paul and we'll caught. drags because he calls a fax factor ex does go away. I meet I just don't feel he if kills again, if he's not call, Would he have ever killed again and why Why not aware the compulsion or yeah me too, on frog demon, as you rightly called frog demon yeah, don't move so when did he start working at the church?. I don't know, I think he was at the church for quite a while. I don't know many actually cause. We know he took one body there right yeah at some point he was elected as some kind of president of the kind. Nation. They called it the other there's something.

and I dont know the answer. So it's just put out? If anybody knows, I think anybody it only person knows him right. and we got a lotta soundbites for furred dennis, later, but I don't have anything of him for I never. Read anything that talked about how he was able to satisfy this actual sadism part of his problem. these either the three or four hey. This is that he took before or this long long fourteen year period I think judge, waller arrest on either hand. Take he just wanted to know about the crimes and yet did not hear him talk about the delors Davis so let's hear that required

that particular day. I had some commitments. I left those went to one place changed my clothes wanted another place to park. My car finally made arrangements on my kit kit, my clothes and then walk to that residence after spending some time with that residents very cold at night and reservations about going in, like I had taken place before, and I really couldn't figure out how to get in and she was in the house. So I finally just selected a concrete block and through through the plate, glass window on the eastern himalayan are worthless. Residents located on hillside, but I couldn't give you address was probably sixty one sixty two something on sixty two something north or south north north side. All right, so you used a concrete block to break a window like glass window patio door. What happened that noise? I just went in. She came out of the bedroom and thought that a car had hit her house, and I told her that I was. I use the the roofs of the thing wanted. I was on the run and food car warm warm up, and then I asked her handcuffed. Her doctor told her that I would like to get some food get a keizer car and had a rest assured. You want to talk with her a little bit calmed her down a little bit and then eventually I checked the. I think she was still handcuffed. I went back and check out where the car was simulated, getting some food odds and ends in the house that I was leaving then went back and removed her handcuffs and then tied her up and then eventually strangled her or say eventually strike well after I tied her up and went through some things in the room there and then and then strangled them when we were looking for something was a personal items. Yes, I'd take some personal items from there. You take personal lives and every one of these incidents I did on the hedge. I don't remember a thing as mickey's place. The charles would get the watch and the radio, I don't think identity and rights lions snow- I don't think so box. Yes, I picked some things but fox because hit and miss alright, but even if it was control situation where I had more time, I'd make something, but if it if it was a infusion and other things I did as I was trying to get out of there aren't sorted regard for the day was mad at you went around the room took a few personal things. What did you do then strangled her? What did you strangler with any hills? What happened I kind of like mrs hedge, I already figured out my ahead. You don't plan on leaving and put her in a blanket and drove her to the arbiter in the trunk of the car even strangled her to death. He hasn't put her in her car, her car or car in the trunk of her car. What happened? I really had a commitment I needed to go to so I moved her to one spot took her out of her car. This gets complicated, then the stuff I had close gun, whatever I picked up to another spot in her car dump that all ok then took her car back to her house and left that. Okay in the interim, I took her car back to your grouse. In the interim. I realized that I had lost. One of my guns dropped it somewhere. So I was just trying to figure out where my gun was so. I went back in the house realized I had dropped in when I went into when I broke the plate glass window, it dropped below the four right there and I found it right there. So that's all that problem anyway, I went back out through the keys checked the car all the way through the feasible top the roof of the house walk from her car back to my car, took my car drove it back and I either dropped more stuff off or I picked her up and put them in my car and then drove up northeast of Sedgwick county and dropped her off underneath the bridge the sea.

I can't see a but give me an hour, sittin here laughing as raiders talking, because meet me sounds like a bumbling idiot a drama keys at into where they were popping sound. You heard that was not us that was really dennis raider, like a ten year old kid pop in his mouth or who is trying to think just very very strange yeah again I know this is many, many years after he committed thea murder. But again I no remorse. No, basically just like he's just trying to tell you Pretty nonchalant yeah, so I went there did this yeah then I did that. But you know it's funny. It is a long time afterwards I don't know that if he had was given,

that statement the day after that, it would be any different I don't know it's a psychopath right here, he has no empathy now his we're going to hear later, a little bit more from him in his own words he's going to act like he does, but I don't think he does and I think he's you know still think that without him doing this, you you wouldn't you wouldn't have been able to find out. That was me ethic kansas, thing that he feels is still helping everybody out

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to get into the fat. Some fascinating parts of of the Of the case, where he's taunting the media and the police and his ultimate capture. I gibbs this is interesting part. For me, this is a part and waitin for you really is. I mean the murders are one thing you feel for the victims. There's some crazy, crazy thing, that happen, but craziness for me happens starting in two thousand and four so dennis raider, has not killed anybody for what is basically thirteen years. And like we set, we don't know if you was go planning on ever killing anybody again right or if he would, it just lived out the rest of his life ass, a. Church member compliant officer, husband, father, where

No not yet this point he's in the clear can do whatever he wants. He doesn't have any come on down on him. So, but what happens is weak? to some milestones. Rights what's the matter, Get to some anniversaries of the original killings and the wichita press as they we do in in a lot of areas where you have a point famous unsolved crime. They come out with some stories. I think there were some book. written, maybe you know about, beat. kay and things like that. Greater depth jealous. I think you get jealous when he starts to see these stories up again and starts, which he had done in this whole time he starts indicating again with the local me, yeah so in march, two thousand, for he sends a letter to the witch while and

which he claims that the murderer of Vicki regularly and he even encloses some photographs of the crime scene he's got a photocopy her driver's licence. That is able to include, I mean no doubt right. They they get this. The police gets this. They know without a doubt that whoever sent this letter betake as BT kay The interesting thing about the letter is that the rich in addressing uses, is bill. Thomas killed, which obviously stands for pity you and I can figure that out rigour out anybody can and we're not that bright, so they that's his first letter and that kind of you a kind of ramps him up there again letters receive. There is even more publicity. It's in the news. You know yet nor hyped up his prey wherein some paeonies like the old days- and he's all jazzed, so

of two thousand for He sends a word puzzle to alone station and in june there is package found taped to us. Sign in Wichita, which contain very grave big descriptions of the terror, murders and the results sketch that he called he called. The section thrill is my bill now, that buddy enclosed a chapter list for proposed book It was entitled the bt case story. So he's going all out this boy he's just saying I'm back it killed anybody. But I'm going to scare the living shit out of everybody in the wichita and surrounding area yeah take notice. I mean that's what he's doing he's telling everybody notice, you're still here, don't think I went away so people probably relaxed in that thirteen year, drought

and I guarantee I don't know what the gun laws were in the native kansas in two thousand for I imagine gun sales went through the roof if they can, Carry I imagine that people were new flocking to get. So in July, rater drops a package into the return slot at the public library in this path. It contains a whole bunch of weird staffing. There's a claim in there that he was responsible for the death of a nineteen year old, named jake Alan a city called our bony, a kansas that had just occurred, you're that month, claim was ultimately ruled false and death was was determine, be a suicide, but like we talked about he's claiming responsible Eighty for things that he didn't even do

There is no doubt in my mind that if there were additional murders other than the ten he would have you would have said he already. You know he had ultimately missed the ten. He would have admitted to write anything else. I believe so we we get october, two thousand for and a manila envelope is dropped into a. U p s box in wichita and this one's pretty safe, because contains a series of cards that have images on em they're they're. Just there. It's. Adage of children and just these terrorizing images that are stood on these cards. Also included is a poem which threat the life of the lead investigator? That's on the bt k case. and this is Crazy raider. Is he includes its own fate. Autobiography inside it

package which soup Mostly contains details about his life, there False right he's not given them real details right these details were at some point released to the public. He was smart enough to you're, not give them re real details. I guess so there's a lot of packages here so for two thousand for the police. The! please now get a package from the bt kate killer, its found in a place called murdoch park, and in this this package greater puts the driver's license of Nancy fox, which the police had known, was stolen, they never found her driver's license Also in there's a doll. at raider somehow had bound. He bound the hands in the feed any tied, a plastic bag over the stalls head to show how

Did I I guess I mean we're terrorism, you now sit around in his panties plane with dolls industry house. in his tree house doing this thing I don't know he could have. He wouldn't have been caught right, He may have never been caught dna, but would have maybe caught up with him at some point, but. There's a good chance. He may have never been caught like the zodiac has never been cod right. could somehow put this, maybe maybe this replaced. Sexual aspect of it. this taunting may he got a similar thrill out of this, even though he did do you know what thirteen fourteen years after his last murder, So now we're all we're all the way to two thousand five january- raider leaves a he tries to leave a serial box. Bed of a pickup

at home depot, but the owner throw it away. tosses it out, and it was later retrieved from the trash and the only reason that the they looking for it is because raider in a later message, asked what happened to this the box. So that was something he tried to do that just didn't land. It didn't work because it's really proud of his cat and mouse game yeah. He. He really was now this. the first time because of I guess formation that he had given the police. They were able to actually get a surveillance state, from the home depot parking lot, they saw a figure driving a black cheap cherokee stop actually leave the the cereal box in the pickup. Now they can't make it out. They don't know who it is it's pretty bright. You know distance shouldn't have to make a vehicle yeah, so they got the vehicle they can't tell who,

Exactly and then, in february, just a month later, more postcard sent to local tv station. he leaves another cereal box in a rural location. This one has one another doll it's all bound up in One is apparently meant to symbolise the murder of Josephine. terror, and I know it's been a long time since episode one, but Josephine was the eleven year old in the terror family that was was hung in the basement. So I cyril boxes reference serial killer. Agnes, that's my thought. He business doesn't realise how they spell it or what that's that's my thought we know he's not here the smartest. and I'm I'm torn on. That I think in some ways he is intelligent and in some ways he's not

then again it could be part of the game right. He could be acting too. I think he strong people all fight act. less intelligent than he is. I don't know yet we talk, that where he did that his writings. then, we get in to him writing some letters to the police. And in these letters raider asked the police if he can put information on a floppy disk. and whether or not a feed. If he does this, can they trace it so police and in their gone back through like newspaper ads and some things like that in a few I've got some of these pictures. I've got the postcards. I've got the m some of this communication and so Look for that on sir gram in facebook. Another place. But so the police are answering his question. Fire newspaper

in the wichita eagle and what do they tell him? What are they gonna time? Yeah We can't we can't trace any formation on floppy disk by all Lastly, we all know now that they can write. no date as ever, really gone as ever deleted mushroom yeah harmonise their that's. Why tell my kids be careful? What you put on the web, because it a live forever a lot of that same thing goes with hard drives, and you even race, a hard drive, there's some thirteen year old kid that kid. In about three seconds, pull everything up that was ever on problems. She bleach it whatever that is whatever that software is. It was in the new sternly election god. Must have missed that. I thought there you, I thought you were gonna, give more secrets. I thought we were gonna get gimme. Some can give too much worse. So now we ve we ve done The part where raider one to put information on a floppy it this

be his last communication with the median in police, and he sends a floppy, asking some most people nowadays, don't even know what the hell floppy disc is, but a lot of us in our house have to be. I mean we're in our forty, so yet he at least be in Europe Thirty, probably to remember floppy disk, maybe then we're talking, which floppy does the great big fight them. We had the one that was actually floppy right or the one that was like the harder plastic through an average one yeah. I think this time. This was the the smaller plastic. One. but he sends a memory ex floppy disk. the media and the police. February of two thousand five. Also, he puts in this package photo b of the nineteen eighty nine novel about assume

oh killer. It was called rules of prey, andy golden colored necklace with a large medallion Any of that other stuff means and I never read exactly what it was supposed to represent. Whether was the the necklace in the medallion. I never read. If it was some, he took from a very came from the crime scene or work. It was supposed to symbolise something I just never got. I never got it. The police have the disk its not very hard for them to incur The men Data that's embedded on the disk has basically this bunch a word documents that had been saved on this disc so they are able to get this method data on their off of it and it base clean, tells them that it was you was then these documents were saved at the christ, lutheran church, and

document was marked as la being saved or modified by dennis than ever. Ass name, but you said Dennis not hard for them to church has a website. So they do a quick search. The churches website and turns That Dennis writer is the president of the congregation council its at this point that police began to survey o dennis raider. I mean they thereon right. He's he's almost as good as cod. At this point pretty much yeah because don't they drive, buys housing. They see a black sheep in the parking and the driveway and a new start, putting it an altogether, yeah, they do the dune surveillance. They know he drives the black cheap It's also during this period that they get a warrant for the

medical records of Dennis raiders daughter. Are able to match her, dna. I mean they don't even need his dna right I'm not sure why they took dna as Webster. They day was easy for them to do that, because have they didn't have to give him heads up that they were doing this. So they wanted to make sure right, so they went and got them. Dna. before they went any before they went to him yeah so yeah they did testing the dna and it comes back that its it's a family match with the seamen collected at earlier bt, K crime scene. You now go back to the fore episode and even into the second. We are pretty graphic right. guy left seamen everywhere. So wasn't your: they obviously had samples of Dna in and it came up as a match-

so they took that evidence. They took the black jeep and at that point they knew they had enough and they operator in February twenty fifth, two thousand five when he's pretty close to his house think they stopped in young people to or from. But I did right. Error is down the head which tops he's bomb unit truck to swat trucks, cavy. I, which I assume is this bureau of investigation fbi here, which we know is that oh bureau of investigation. Eighty f, he wasn't going anywhere now, so they had their head, five six seven different agencies can John on raider and this. This part, I rode down act I thought was, was really I think, security was her mark up,

paul borders on a subway yeah. He just for the perimeter was right to strike the perimeter permanent, but I had written down because I've found it. You know I'm a humorous. I know it's hard to be humorous onward. Talking about such gruesome stuff, but So they have raider in handcuffs and The officer says middle. Mr rater, do you know why you're going downtown and Dennis says Yeah I've got my suspicions. Yes, that's all that's! Ices. they. The police search, his home vehicle they got. All these agencies are collecting all every bit of evidence, computer equipment, they did collect data pair of pantyhose from his shed. They also searched his church. His off sit city hall,

a branch of the park city library, not exactly sure why they search that sad, because he, I think that's where he may have the need put some doubts and YAP here, so they removed computers from everywhere took his home computer. His work computer so after his arrest, apparently raider talk to the police fur Several hours- and it was then that term- I guess he d give a reason for why he resurfaced ethic married. We touched on it right there. At the beginning of the segment but- and it was because we have had several different reasons, but one of the big ones was the release of this book called nightmare in Wichita. The hunt for the bt k strangler, which was written by a man named Robert baby, I'm not if he didn't like the way was written, but basically what he said was he wanted the opportunity to tell his story his own way.

he also in this is callouses I'll get out, but he also stated that he was bored has his children had grown up and yet It's a lot of time on his hands with nothing to do with I dress up. Dolls bind up dolls scared the shit out of how many p live in which tolerant all at that time in the surrounding areas? So in February twenty six, that the witch top police department held their press conference and they were able to announce that they had raider in custody. Is the prime suspect in the bt k killings? They fall? We charged him on february, twenty eightth, two thousand five you know ultimately raider plead guilty to all ten murders. He gets. ten consecutive life sentences, because I don't do that at that yeah what seems like a lot better It was said to be

a minimum of a hundred seventy five years with no chance for pearl is a long time. Yet he's not get. Basically here is never get you never get any will use button what's alter. Environment worries and their twenty three hours a day. to come out for one hour of What terry yard play eat and all that kind of stuff? So where are they say they do that for his own protection, because we know how they are some. I wouldn't kill someone here, somebody what I got home so she for what he did to instantly here. For a couple of different reasons. Right you. I think you are right to say it for what he did. Kids, yeah josephine. First one right san, also fur notoriety notoriety. Exactly we ve seen that another case is where prison, bread, yeah get an amazing amount of notoriety from killing a big time. Yet, sir, killer, though so he's in there. think I read

New now, they've now valleys It's like three hours outside of his confinement for good behaviour. Am I a lot of the victims? Families are happy with that. They felt that he shouldn't get any special privileges that teaches he'll be confined to twenty three hours in his. Tiny little cell, and- and I agree- I mean it's a fact that he gets out sell for one hour to the sea daylights partly too much yet thinking as as it as a dad or your husband if that were a member of I family, I dont, think I'd feel real good about that. I guess the thing that gets me and not an absurd and want to get into a death penalty, debater or anything like that, but here Kansas did reinstate the death penalty and ninety four, but because his last murder was in ninety one. He was an eligible even though they didn't catching you,

ten or eleven years after they had already reinstated the death penalty. So there was a lot of evidence. We touched on a little bit, but I wouldn't just kind of go through some of real quick, because now, it came out at trial because he confessed, he played guilty. They had the dna which we talked about see men had dinner from underneath fingernails of Vicki regularly because she fought so viciously and all that matched the did. Of analysis on his grammar and writing in and they had some. Computer communication type staff. They re butter to match the matter that they knew that you pay for That killer used to report the seventy seven murder was just blocks from his eighty t, secure the ethical dimension that rate

lived on. The same shred is marlene hedge. We talk about that. You mentioned it in the very first step, so but Julie terror and catherine bright. Both worked at the common company right. They put that together well not. It was stated they're not doing the same exact period that rater work there. I think one of them was on one of them wasn't. I know at least I believe this first victim, think Julie was but sure about bright but they're at the same time, apparently Confession took sixteen hours over sixteen hours and we ve played the trunks of it. We're not yeah when his actual confession, but we played some stuff from his his. It wasn't police confession right. What we're playing is from courtroom right, where the judge asking him, but man out I'd like to listen to some of the actual. Please confession, but it was so long that reportedly took over twenty

these two report at all while and it said that he went- all ten murders in grisly grisly detail. We get to the centre. and this is something that to me. I just found very very strange because we at is he sends the ten life sentences hunter only five years, no parole, but raiders allowed to speak at his sentencing, which, I guess is normal but he's allowed to speak for twenty five minutes which seems like a pretty long time you ve got to lips that I want to play from his sentencing and then talk about him a little bit but they're just so strange. I had to include them.

the community, the family of victims, dishonored the snow and resolve self same. The call I would call the sexual predator the day is my final judgment. The court presented by the state or powerpoint presentation with very powerful, like a couple of things on my way out for the last but overall most of the is to the county I'll be proud to have a good steak. The evidence was there earlier dna blocking the way that I was going to get out. It is the remorse responsibility and corrections concepts of apology. The old me started: whatever it was factor as sexual predator volcano was the building. All those years was the hotel, probably the most devastating upsetting. Looking at everybody is the. I just don't know the center very selfish, the explode on that day and it did continue off and on the honesty. Shuffling is honestly, probably the first thing to the people that I encountered. The interest in ada was fine I'll, take your money and leave the honesty, my family, the lie chief piece of interest from employers in the county, the taxpayers' money. The responsibility is, I had pride back then some degree of trying to drop down so that the media seemed to brave the attention of the media. The years that, despite presentation during the presentation, all the archives that you can understand that I didn't think the bottom line of the old is a selfish, very just associated with society substitute for my own purposes and for the victims. He talks about being self centered. He is

Scully describing himself as a psychopath cycle. as self centred on aid, feel empathy for others, has no prob with hurting others has no deal no shame. No remorse. Now. I think is putting on an act mike. You think too, yeah. He was going down the standing ovation for the county and away they yeah. He congratulated the press peters and what thanks for Asking me what a good job they did and binding me in but evidence, Appointed matter he news caught and the one thing I think, Raider was able to do. a very early age, as I think he learned how to live in in two different worlds?. ready at one world where he was a husband and father. He had multiple jobs that he was able to keep fur

Indeed, periods of time- and he had all that canada of compartmentalized. Then he had this other area where, froggy the frog frog demon that you talk about right factor, eggs. I never checked runway project here and he he said he knew what the age of ten something wasn't right with him. Yeah Was different binding he had I think you started early learning how to on this side. I'm norm and on this side I let my freak flag fly he fell away to be deceptive without being caught is able to do Successfully for what thirty years since he started killing but even gone back to, like you, said, aged ten. He was able to do for a long time,

yeah I mean he so dreaming that I mean there's been books right lot slot even gaining gonna use, catalan aspiration for even king on one of his books. Lots books, lots of movies another what the red dragon book they did. All I did read that, which is part of the. science and lambs France, Reinsurance shows thomas hairs, definitely intriguing, intriguing killer. yeah yeah. He I mean he was fascinating. He's he's one that I knew I I wanted to do early on. I guess we're gonna, do a mix of. egg timers. In the end, smaller ones will probably do a bunch smaller ones before we do the next big timer. But let me play the sentencing The second sentencing clip because it it's absolutely fascinating what he too. is to say in the time that he has

The gameboy and I hope, it'll fit on the media because he uses some of this for the leader cause. I didn't notice much of the time or grandparents' farm, let into as a kid at the high school for two years walked the halls. The wine shared the same teachers, although they would have been over the opponent just like I did probably the village of the above water, the status, the animals the show. I realize that several years probably hasn't gone hands. I don't think the sails. I was always pretty good animals. I have. I have a fondness for animals. I have pets, I dunno she had and I read somewhere. She had her last christmas, the wonderful time the opposite. She was a wonderful person, and I did I did tracker. Was the wonderful young lady, the organized hard worker, the hedge she's, a neighbor, the one about my way to a gardener? I love the garden, the flowers, the church, the drive into wisconsin the air force. I was an air force. He was a husband as a husband, although I always wanted to be a pilot always had a fascination with aerodynamics. He was a pilot and even thought about taking private lessons in the car. Our threads were close. The failure carol is a lot like my wife, the kids and she was working for the last like a daughter that age, the barbie dolls, the draw the someone mentioned that she was like peace and hot the two he was just like me. One time avoided all the many many many memories, the the glory, but had a lot of memories as a kid. The dogs and then you'd have to have in your kit the choir, the people I didn't know very much of the fireplace and the hyperspace music. That's one thing I always wanted one with was the church that I went to St Andrews, the hope of someday

I don't know why, but that makes me physically sick to my stomach, actually find it find right. You know, to say that He was so alike that the victims were so like him and he was like them. I was in that court, and I was one of the victim's family out. A piece I made sick anyway, but to say that like poetry, like poetry, were lot alike in our day, the dog at a dog. I don't know what it says about me, but that one made me more. I had a more stronger reaction to that one. Then I did He talked about each murder. for some reason, and I that says about me, but results. It was almost like he was eulogizing each the ten victims and saying how great they were, but I killed them.

I don't know there was this sum is why I want to play that clip. There was something pretty sick, actually yeah There was something about that. I just had to play so gibbey. When we made it, I may we wrapped up what c to be. What was ultimately be an upright four and a half hours on bt k here. But there was this so much formation to him again some people may say we spent too much time when in the tumor detail we're getting a lot of feedback that the people liked the details. I there is some happy medium in there and will find it as we go along or we just need people to keep giving us feedback yeah. You know he used twitter and use the facebook and instagram Let mike- and I know how you feel, but I think you some of these are fascinating, but People know who Dennis rader BT k is in

A lot of the other ones that will do may be, are gonna, be late, Well known, but that's it that's it further. The Dennis raider story for me for you, this wrapped up in its raider saga,. Stay safe and keep your own. time ticking.