In 2014, Alton Nolen committed one of the most shocking acts of workplace revenge violence in recent history. Join Gibby and I as we walk through the details of the case, the possible motives, the religious and racial aspects that caused a media frenzy. We have several big announcements in this episode that you do not want to miss! Visit our website at http://truecrimeallthetime.com and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook/truecrimeallthetime. You can help support the show on our Patreon page for as little as $2 per month.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome everyone to episode, ten of the true crime, all the time, podcast gibbey
in the studio. What's goin on that's a good data
it's always a good day when we're recording like being in the studio right now, it's very cold outside hats. What ten degrees where we are something like that, maybe a little, maybe a little chillier yeah. It's very
so couple shouts gotta give a shot out the cassie pearson she did agree
Scott Petersen meme,
and at giving every. By knows how much we love me, I love those names. You did a great job. We gotta keep em coming. We love em
We didn't even know what a meme was. I don't think before we started this podcast in our infatuated with me, Jordan got his role, anonymous, yep, Jordan started this whole mean craze for
then, a very special shoutout, Sarah,
Sarah are newest, patriarch supporter, and
thank you enough. Sarah furred decide
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Really makes a big difference. So you
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The patron link in all of our contact information on our website
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If you love the show, please remember to rate review us on itunes now,
most of you are familiar with Jeffrey Dahmer. We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted individual mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle war takes us through the story, starting with Dahmer, his childhood and the first murder all the way through his death. The podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives, journalists and others close to the case to explore exactly what happened and how
His killer came to be so. This sounds like a very deep dark and for me, anytime, you get never before heard audio from people very close to the case, Ahmet, listen to mind of a monster on apple podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts
so we have a few big announcements to make the
does that the wednesday after this episode airs, we will be releasing our first listener. Co host
episode. It will be
Scully be very similar to our regular episodes, bobo
if cat listener on with us, who is from
the area
familiar with the case, and they should be able to add some great information to the episode I have.
we're five other people that have expressed interest in and doing this if you
after listening and you have a lesser known case,
that you're familiar with or that occurred in your area, and you think you'd like to come on with us and be part of this new,
snore co, hosted episode segment, definitely reach out to us, I dont know exists,
finally, how often will do this
love it will depend on. You know what kind of demand we have, but the year we won
at this first went out there in and see what people think of it. So this
Second announcement is, is pretty big and
that gibeah and I starting a new podcast.
Hard cash shares the name true crime, all the time, but this one
his unsolved, so
Basically, the same logo word
Just just have the stamp on it. That says unsolved. That kind of runs through the clock.
and what we did is we. We made the decision that we're gonna stick with solved cases.
On the regular t, catch show that we ve been doing and then we're just gonna start a new key cat unsolved. That looks
strictly at unsolved cases,
So if all goes according to plan, the first episode will drop on sunday, the twenty second,
the show should be out on itunes some time this week, free to subscribe to
but we will definitely make the announcement again on next week's true crime, all the time
like I said I had the same logo they'll just have an unsolved stamp running through it,
so for all of you out their own social media near they keep saying you wish. We were put out more episodes. Hopefully this will help satisfy that true,
I'm craving, I know were, were really excited about it. Some we ve talked about
for a little while and we hope you like it.
and in the last announcement is there
We should be offering up some true crime, all the time merchandise for sale in the near future, so
actually beyond the look out for that announcement on facebook, twitter, instagram. I'm sure
make an announcement on the pod cat,
it's episode right before we're ready,
to unveil, but a lot of people been asking for
merchandise, and then we're gonna get some
nothing better than to listen to your true crime,
the time why your sipping, a cup of coffee out
the crime, all the time mug. You know
found, I'm gonna give top. This is top secret, but
I found was what they call it.
Skew whistle for peace,
put on their key chain or the loved high pitch. Nor yet they run into any problems. Ask us
a true crime all the time. So me what
is better with you just
and to a scary yap, so
jus crime. All the time
Gotta go out, it's dark at night. You get here
rescue whistle attached to your key ring.
no brainer right there at their gibbey
are you re to get into this bizarre to crime story? I am stuffily a little different
where it's different for us in a couple of ways, a number one: it's a case of workplace violence and
We haven't done one of those,
there's a lot of mount there and I'm sure this will be the last one that we do. It is a little different for us
so today we are talking about the case of all to Nolan who in turn,
thousand was fourteen.
commit a very brutal
homicidal rampage at the place that he worked you
strangely
gibbey. You- and I talked about this before we went on air
This is the second story where ten up so- and this is the second story that we're doing autumn man name alton
and to me, that's not a name that that I hear a lot notes. Pretty pretty rare, dame
China, in fact that fact toyed with the fact that you
two murders. That name is part of his are yet
so a little bit about all? No one here,
born in nineteen. Eighty four and
grew up in a very rough neighbourhood of ida, bell, Oklahoma,.
Give me I don't know few looked at it
thing, but I did a little bit of research on ida bell because I've never heard of it. Not
overly familiar with Oklahoma. So I wonder, do a little bit better,
research on it, but yet
all town looks like
b, seven to ten thousand,
people haven't been there.
Been through. I went home, I saw one place. You had not been I'm in Oklahoma, but you know Oklahoma city, but yeah. I never heard of the place yeah I hadn't either.
created in the southeast corner of the state. What
thing that I did read about ida bell was that it
some some rough patch
to it.
I'll Nolan would grow up in in this kind of
A part of
about that. Apparently there was a lot of crime and there were a lot of murders.
place, so another nother person that grew up in a
Farrier tough neighbourhood programmes, tough childhood, I'm guessing.
I could not find a lot about his childhood.
we found in a lot of cases. We ve been able to detail out people's child
It's much better. In some of our other cases, but you have some
the things that I did find were that in us
as I said this, a very, very small town, seven to ten thousand people right.
It had a lot of murders, so
that's pretty strange.
For easily ass a low population over such a low population, and
childhood friends later on. After the incident
that. We're gonna talk about
They would say that all was filled with
anger and resentment.
And that he had a temper,
and a tendency towards violence from a very early age and it tends to come from
the way you raised nor upbringing upbringing has something something here in your early life causes
Rick I mean you'd, you're, talkin, nature, verses nurture their and bright. We don't know exactly what it was, but obviously there was something in him that caused him.
Filled with a lot
anger and resentment, but
very interesting fact about this very
small town of ida bell was that
who of altenburg childhood friends would also turn
to be murdered really
Yeah very I found it very strange, so he
friend that was found guilty city of childhood childhood friends that a later
I'll be murders.
He had one friend that was found guilty of murder and two thousand thirteen.
And killed his boss, ETA, sonic, restaurant, so another
place violence there
and that's strange right so little connection, their parent lead. He shot her multiple times, starting
the point. Blank shot to the bay
her head
stole the days deposits for the the sonic
Restaurant
She had honour that. That's the
friend right so
friend was he ultimately plead guilty him and was sentenced to life, and I assume he still fur
Nine thousand dollars and yeah yeah, and we can talk about
Craziness of that, but makes a lot of sense, so
second friend childhood friend that he had
murdered a woman and her batter
Apparently he anna and another, a kind of person accomplice state.
This woman multiple times and and killed her,
found it very strange that you know these are.
out hood friends of his. They grew up in the same neighborhood, an appeal,
lee they grew up in the same situation, so so clear,
as this was a pretty rough negative
words, I'm guessing by
I don't know the areas I don't know. If you call it projects, I don't know if you call it just know the neighborhood, but for
three people that knew each other that ended up committing these crimes
times like that that would be weird. I
to me that would be weird in the big town, but
a town. The size of
seven thousand eight thousand nine thousand whatever it is to have three child,
friends there they are there,
Then there are already childhood friends and have done anyway.
May I add yet, though we know,
no, but I may I do know and have been known people either
I worked with a merlin across and a signal
ah straight or in the same. Neighborhood emit commit murder right right,
we have got into the those we ve got him just over a few of them
but these weren't you
yeah. These are childhood friends that you know I used to play football weather or anything like that. So, let's start off. You know as we like to do playing clips. Let's start off with the the nine one one call and then we'll
talk about what we hear:
I work tomorrow. Nine one one where's, your emergency food, more of your home or two. Sixteen of you are gonna wanna talk to someone in the building. I was just informed that I am inside daily office or in the office front. Office of the building can hear a lot of screaming we're actually going to different office, but someone just handling the weather out in the building in front of the building, there's our main entrance, and you know that we we know that if you stab someone out to them now, laceration non sixteen dammit they're paying NE your speaker phone one. Second, okay, then down on that page, sixteen lh kind of okay, so we don't know where the person when he went through our front office went to the shipping office has set out a woman in our customer service. Depart. Okay. Did he know? You know she is an employee? Ah, ok, thank you lock that door. He can yeah we're trying. Can you hear this? In the background hand, me back yeah. It sounds like he's running around out that a gunshot or for finding volunteer we have gotten shot the guy now he's in the hallway, outside of the center of the building in a hallway in the center of the building.
We can hear the nine one. One call
and we hear them
talking about
all too nolan
through the VON foods right again,
ultimately can ending up
with gunshots.
so, let's talk a little bit about what happened in a minute. I don't
This didn't. This didn't take very long,
no it happened unfairly fast right,
Oh, no one enters the bond foods
And he
immediately
counters
before your old Colleen hovered right.
in the one. I think
some type of administrative office. What
I got from the research giving correct me as we go, but he
he encountered her like from behind. By came up
and her from the high right and
Please lie seven
her head with a knife
I could probably reaching around. I think he re you know so you know he had a parrot
nice any reached around and slipped the neck and then continued to sever the head.
We're going to talk about what kind of story this became, but right yeah I mean this was not to be too graphic, but it was a decapitation right. It was a beheading. If you want to,
right so a little bit about
Colleen, she was free,
am more oklahoma.
Born in germany, probably on an air force base, it doesn't say
But she lived in Montana and was
he's in Montana. She met.
your husband in montana, and then they settled and more oklahoma
a daughter, Colleen was an avid hockey fan
What I read is, above all, she just had a real joy of life and she
especially close with her family, and
most of all her granddaughter. So
We again we
We try to talk about the victim.
says as much as we can, because we don't want
all of these podcast just about the person that that perpetrates thee,
the criminal act so he's
Decapitated, Colleen hovered and
From there he runs into another employ so I'm ain't so that I do you want to step back a little bit
talk about how it brood up to this point here. We
We definitely can there. There is
couple of things. I've got
a little farther down in my notes right, but we can
we can do it now, because there was
in different reasons that led up to this altercation, her son altercation, that's rampage
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without a statement that said.
Tat, no one had just been terminated from from the vote.
Foods because he worked there too. This is
september, two thousand fourteen and right.
After this happens. They they put out a statement saying he been terminated.
later on. They were correct that from
the research that I did and say that he had been suspended. So you ve got that that's that
one factor, and then I think the fact that you're, probably referring
The most is
his issues with Tracy johnson here.
basically the reason he gas, suspend it so
Well, we know we know that.
he is employed there he's he's must be working
and tracy- is but on a job.
For three or four days right. She she just was released.
prison she d
some.
and his unrelated, but you know it's it's a good point to bring out.
She just came out of prison from some check fraud, shoes and she serve some time
That is the surfers job.
geez. I believe this is our fourth day into it
and she's workin on the simile line, and she sees alton
You know he's there, but he's guph office, not working and she's, not afraid to say sometime in sheep,
says you know you need to do your job,
get busy.
Stand around and
who off she bay.
it tells him? You know your lazy. Well, of course he doesn't like that,
You know he make some comments and make some racial.
aw comets towards her
Scully. You know says something like you know, I don't like white people and a few other comments so
that's what that's that's, what leads to harass go ghost hr files that complain or somebody else, also files a complaint.
So then they pull him and to get his story, and at that point
you know he gives his stories well and at that point they decide to put em on suspension.
We even told the leave cause
One thing we haven't talked about. So all
com,
There you go. I knew I was going to say alton coleman, so you thought was gonna, be me and I did think it was can be. Alton nolan was muslim, he was, and
there was a lot of information that he
I had been trying to convert some of
fellow employees and I dont know,
that also lead to the lake it was spencer was, can was a combination that he was making religious
comments
and racial. Racial comment was a combination and we're going to talk a lot more about the fact that
that he's muslim and how that plays into this story because it becomes a huge fat after after fact, here yeah
so so he leaves goes home
turns within fifteen minutes. So he's not gone very long right now and I have- and I have that he he brings back a large bladed knife- use
pairing yeah. I think pairing knife as something that I use the little up an app right. What that's you know everything that I read it. He went home and got appearing I've. So I don't know what is pairing might look like right, but I what I have as a large bladed knife that you'd used to cut up like heads of let us right.
So a chef's knife, a chopping knife or whatever they call that I dunno. I think it would not that you couldn't do it, but a paring knife would maybe be a little tough.
right then you could do you could do that with any
sharp enough, I guess, but you know that use, does no pictures of the evidence after so there's no way for us to actually see
the size of the yeah, we're just one life, but we're just going off different media stories released. But I think the key is that you know he's he's pissed off
he just been suspended.
he goes home gets a knife,
because we know that at this point here
turns to bonn foods for revenge trade. I think that's
that's pretty well known and any scott,
history of what you said.
He's got a history of rage,
round to his friends right. You know where he grew up and then so
and I don't know what we're gonna dive into a but he's got a history, and I think we, let's, let's finish with the actual, what happens at bonn foods and then we're gonna talk about his
streets and in some of the other things but cause
is already gone back where he talked about calling hovered and
it was important that you took that detour, because the next person that
He encounters is Tracy Johnson
and that's the reason why I know that's the reason why you want to take a detour because it sets it up. My
standing is that he had three targets.
The first one was Tracy johnson nets.
the individual that head
in his eyes. Probably gotten him suspended the other two I couldn't. I couldn't find their names
and maybe you have em but I'll have, but it is IRAN.
that because they were not injured, he never got foreign.
to get to them right in the plan.
I think it was the he was
We wanted to go after the two animals
that made the complaint.
and then the hr person
but and that would make sense because in his mind,
its revenge, and it's all about this suspension. It's the people that caused it.
The people that carry it out, but you go, let's go back calling covered because
wasn't part of any of it. Now she was
jason in saying in the wrong place as it a year
time she just happened to be the first person that
he encountered him and because of that, unfortunately, she she lost her life right and so the
dressing part is so he does. What is that he did to to her
he comes up behind from her slits throwed cuts the head on
right, however, that motion happened. She put up a struggle, I mean sheesh,
he kicked over some chairs and the office.
I can imagine that anybody wooden right as an area you could turn in the room she was and it was you could tell there was a little bit of struggle so
Meanwhile, Tracy
she's back in the locker room, changing closed innovation.
And she can hear the screaming
She says she doesnt realise she thinks it was his people messing around. She didn't know
think severe so
she hears that and then
she comes out in
walks into the that office.
And she sees the first
damn laying bare, but you can't tell
the heads been severed right, you see a lot of blood
I imagine it was had there been a lot, so I d like it. Would
body for iter out,
and there is a lot
commotion going on. She says
we she went back to
locker room too.
Retrieve something, and then she went.
to go back and sit with the victim to help arrived
on her way to returning back to that office. That's when she came face to face with alton and at that point
That's when you know that more details, but I believe that that's the point when he wrote
is to her- and she basically says that he's
I feed away, but one
makes his move at sight within a second and have two seconds he's on her, and she
freezes because she just doesn't know how to react to it in with it,
time. He takes a knife to her
right side of her neck. Yeah me he's trying to do. Yeah he's trying to do the same thing and
tries to diseases
male millimetres away from heading.
major artery right.
At that point that
when there
co worker.
Slash part time sheriff
takes his shot. Yes, so he here
flash tracy up. He
he wanted to do the same thing to her that he had just done to Colleen
but, as you said
and it was actually the the companies
the mark vote
and so far and wide.
Through our boots here he's obviously family, but he.
He happened to be a reserve deputy with the outcome.
What county, sheriff's department and
for whatever reason he had a rifle. I don't if he kept it for protection in the office, but
He shot, no one with the rifle and that's what stop the attack.
And you can hear that on the nine one one because
there's some loud.
Cops and somebody
says. Oh that's, does your gunshots you're getting back to tracy
and I guess I'll know, and for that matter they were hospitalized, but ultimately they they both survive
that's gonna strange and I think in a thick, for both of them
There are the same hospital small tank, you know them
tell him more right. Yet more oklahoma work a homo, so I'm guessing
it probably doesn't have a lot of hospitals. This is probably the trauma one center they have in the area. I dunno we're going to get in trouble now because nobody will lead us everytime. We talk about towns, people say we're ignorant because we don't know how big they are and you know most towns have.
Their trauma. One centres that people
but they would send this type of medical emergency to an tracy makes a comment that is. She was uneasy, knowing that the person that try to killer was just you know, if you'd
was down when you be
absolutely, I would be there's no doubt
Tracy does maker recovery and
We actually have a clip of her citizen to that.
He started slicing my neck and got a hold on my face and got a hold on my right index finger and wouldn't stop and I'm screaming for help and didn't think anybody was going to come around. He got a millimeter away from my juggler corn and to me it would happen quickly, but it seemed to last forever. So
I mean that scary yeah I mean
I can imagine. I can only imagine what it must have been like for her
you mentioned kind of freezing and
To see what she saw in the amount of blood and then to see this man now coming,
to her. I think
people not
trained in that type of response,
would do the same thing here I mean any,
the feeling she she's canada. She can be tough
stand our ground
because she was able she wasn't afraid to speak her mind to him about
I'm not doing his job in for him to
being lazy
we all want to? Do
well from time to time right so so she'd have it.
Speaking of his been. I don't know if that's because she was new on the job and she wanted didn't want to be worry about losing her job because someone wasn't doing their share or because you know
said she. She did do a small stint in in
you know, and maybe that tougher under up a little bit and she felt that you know she was she wouldn't. Let me buy you a railroad, her,
and maybe it's what saved your life too. I might have so she was toughen
and even though she froze for a while, she didn't let him now. Also you gotta give credit to
bond, because without him
She probably does not survive yeah. I don't believe she would. I don't believe she would be here today and I think she she just she understands that too, and and really, if you think about it, not just her. If more,
fond doesn't, have this right
for I was able to put out no one down and we were
are we talking about three or four of the people. There, many more people right, so
it was a good guy with a gun,
that stopped a bad guy, which is also podcast that
become out soon to throw that out
I mean I definitely think Tracy today I mean she still fills the blame for some.
Cause she's the one that made the initial complaint against him and she feels
This is what caused his rage, and so I think she feels in a bad, because what happened?
I think that's natural, but not warranted right. I mean she didn't her
actions lead to this, but they shouldn't have right right. She didn't she didn't bring this on. You know those in her full solely on the shoulders of all nolan and his
decision making sought not think Gibbey we get
The criminal record cause you you, you cannot
touched on a little bit and it's important
So about
Oh no, I'm because he did have a criminal record use
acted on.
Drug charges- and I know you- you ve got some
notes on the years and stuff, but what was that?
Two thousand well yeah, mama, probably multiple, multiple ones. I mean the first thing was that you know he was arrested in two thousand and six for having cocaine and the intent to distribute. So that's his first thing on his record and that's a pretty.
Ig, I mean cocaine and trying to distribute it will yeah. When you get intent to distribute that's a that's, usually pretty serious, and then then he gets arrested again in two thousand and nine for possession of marijuana, which is
today not as big as you.
To be but hell is legal in most yeah now obliges us, so many states have legal so, but he eats.
Is it for possession marijuana naso driving with a suspension licence.
but then in two thousand and ten, that's the big ones
Is the big one and is the one I really want to talk about, because the there
fascinating aspects to this one, he has a traffic jam
He decides that
and I get you have more information on this one. But it's it's a female officer right. Yes,
Is a theme officer. The stopping and you know they.
I don't have the specifics on it, but the end result is that he,
overpowers. Her beats her up.
He's charged with batter yes battery. Is this altercation with with the police off
we're gonna hear from this police officer a little bit, but at this point she could have shot
and she didn't, because he,
can a beat her up and flat.
While our main there and then then ensues this this twelve hour, man he's ultimately captured
And then I, but he escapes detention and in two thousand and eleven, but he ultimately serves two years of a six year sentence.
And he's released in in two thousand and thirteen, but I want to go back to this two thousand and ten incident because it's it is really interesting and we've. I've got a clip of of the
police officer talking about her.
Interaction with Nolan.
it's not something that any law enforcement officer wants to do, but in at the time when, when we struggled there was a brief flash of of time that I would have actually had the opportunity to do that and would have been within my rights to do that. But of course, looking back if there was any way I could have known that then could have prevented the tragedies that happened two days ago. I definitely would have done that. Well, I had planned to take the day off, so I was in the guard in the garden and channel four called me and our local channel four here in town, and they called me and told me what was going on and they said you know this is the same guy. We're looking at always c n dot net and they were looking and seeing that this guy is the same one that assaulted a trooper back in october of two thousand and ten album the town of Langston. Then we had a big manhunt for him, and I said that was me. I was the trooper that he that he assaulted and as soon as I realized what what was going on and they said that he had possibly beheaded. Somebody I mean I got goosebumps all over my bodies. All I could do was just thank god that he didn't kill me when he had the chance to do so and then, of course later as I began to think about it, then I was just overcome with guilt that I didn't take the opportunity to kill him when I had the chance to do so.
Give me I mean you can really here in her voice that
You can hear the struggle with the fact that sheep
possibly could have killed this man
back in two thousand ten when he assaulted her that would have
Ultimately meant that
Killing that happened in two thousand fourteen would not have occurred.
She says she's. She was well within her rights and she would have been because
yeah: you sought a police officer in
most the time you're gonna get shot, but she didn't
Whatever reason, obviously, there was no way for her to know that
These events were gonna unfold four years later, and I feel bad for a because you can
You can tell that she's really carrying around a lot of guilt-
bout. This again.
kind of like we talked about Tracy Johnson.
It's probably hard not to feel some.
built in these situations
ultimately.
the decision making of
two nolan is what led to the answer.
in two thousand fourteen all these,
that
and before
although you both
The police woman in an tracy johnson may feel some guilt about it. Break there. There's really. They shouldn't
it was that individual here I mean, like you said he
this time. He was also ordered doing anger management classes. You know
his release and I don't know he completed those
Clearly, he he didn't learn anything from. If he d have, he did complete em, they did that
How do we know that in over the previous job before
can it varn? He also
as released from that job for Heaven personnel issues,
I don't really know the details and that clearly he had a track record of issues.
So here's a question for you.
Given all these jobs with this,
doing this record. That he's got well
I'm wondering, because
he had a criminal history, and we know,
pretty extensive, I mean, like I had
a bunch of parking tickets and I had a marijuana charge. I mean he had a pretty yeah, I mean he was wanted for assaulting a police officer yeah, it's a pretty extensive record and then we also know- and I'm not trying to keep bringing it up, but I don't mean to bring it up.
In that way, but Tracy
did have a slight bright criminal history?
Maybe the bar on foods just do a background check where I may be, or maybe they did, and maybe they
we're trying to do community serve.
By hiring people leave,
It's only coming out of jail to give them a fresh start, or maybe in that area, for the wages that they paid. Maybe that was the the type of workers that
they they received. I dunno I mean who knows right, yeah we're not from the area. We don't know
we ever gonna get a lot of emails. Well, I just think it might maybe it's more of a work release, type of maybe they they like fresh start type of I'm going with the fact that they probably didn't do
background check like a back back there,
what only talking about two and a half years ago and start to get a job today without most places.
some form back background check, but maybe you know it's a smaller outfit they're not
publicly traded, probably
required to do yet
and we business varied as supply not required to do background check where support it
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Now we're in the after.
stage
incident and its
Yeah the the incident was bad. There's no way around that terrible. What what all nolan did was was horrible. He ruined
people's lives and he killed a woman
and then he ruined.
even you. Tracy's life was probably
it ruin, but it was I'm sure she was scarred for life.
and even people that
heard,
I imagine they had. You know it
affected them. Patriciate, emotionally traces even said there. You know she attempted to try to go back to work, but she basically went to work
you know what she returned. She walked in and basically ran out and went home and never did decided
return again and I get
I don't know the go through what she went through to see what she saw.
I don't know how you could ever go back and I think it be tough to go back there.
in clear. I mean she. She couldn't thank the ceo of
more fond. She was absolutely so thankful for what he
but even own that he's he's there. She still just couldn't go there anymore after going gone with through what what she went through. So I get
I don't remember one, but I don't know you really returned to any
any workplace after going through that. I don't know if she has not since then I think would be difficult to ever.
feel safe anywhere for that
the aftermath what became the biggest issue of this case was
No one's religion
Well sure right. He had read the relief
in part, because
he d, get in trouble. What work for talking about you know trying to convert people to become muslims
At the same time, he was also saying that doesn't like white people right so easy
we get the race aspects to it as well,
this will there's one thing that- and I say this to the n two
towards the end of the podcast, but
It really happen several months before the incident and that's that
It is actually
odin had changed his name on facebook
to your keen years real. So I hear adopt.
a muslim name which
is nothing wrong with people. Do that all the time you're in the muslim religion, but I like advocates.
And I know you're going to cover it, and I think it's some has to do with a lot of the facebook posts.
Social media posted, he starts put him out there right. I mean he slowly drop in these different posts of more of the islamic american. You know he is new,
going pictures of beheading seas.
He's- showing the nine eleven pictures in days-
praising this.
The twin towers, burning on nine eleven praising the action of that he's.
A picture of himself at a mosque in oak oklahoma city
currently making a hand sign of the nicest fighter
these are all post from his facebook page
You said you said: osama bin laden on one of my other isis commanders and
on these
these posts in these pictures he's also
making comments that are saying.
Some of my mother muslim brothers. While these urge these
some of the people there
hey america, the most we are talking about- osama bin laden and his and other isis commanders, and he saying you know-
These are. My muslim brothers he's obviously showing a lot of anti american sentiment and rise point
and even makes. You know, he also discusses the jewish religion seized were discussed for it. I guess right
so he talks about that on his his post
in so many other strange things, daddy, post on onest facebook, radiation,
Oh study is from these born in jerusalem, Israel.
Puts out there. We know
true right any put
we're things after there graduate from high school in two thousand and eleven. Yet he got
from college. In two thousand and seven I saw that. I mean it, it's it's bizarre.
he and he was just even acting very strange near. We
talked about the fact that it
come out that he
before the incident had been trying to confer several employees to the muslim religion,
lee after the event or the incident. He
he told law enforcement officials that he had been spending a lot of time watching videos of beheadings online.
before the incident occurred he's watching. You know why,
type of video show beheadings.
he's watching. I saw or isis tight
videos, that's that's what I
and that was big. You remember that before
that time. I think there were two
Can
we're journalist or yeah, and and actually you can, you can view m- ran on youtube.
If you could stomach get there, you can go on youtube and apparently he was in
I want to say
cheering on. He might have been cheering on right from from
everything that I read so that so FBI's brought in yes,
determine
is a say.
crime is just a crime
terrorism is a terrace crime. You know so
I don't think they were sure at this point and I'm not
sure if it wasn't, a combination of all all
I think it has elements of
racial motivation, and I think it has elements of terrorist dick
motivation right. I dont think you.
Came back religious heiress. I dont think you
I think, there's a workplace violence. I think
because he made the comments, I think it was probably more racial that he was upset with these two women.
In this age, our person dad
most lost his job. I think he took some of the.
islamic terrorism method said he learned in
lies those Y yeah. I get what you're saying. I think the reason for what happened was not
If he wanted to be a terrorist. I don't. I don't believe that I think it was revenge right he was upset, but the fact that
he had been watching these
videos of your eye.
His beheadings and the fact
He be heads calling
hovered right that you know,
It just made for a huge national media
story, and
no they. So they were interviewing people at the mosque that that he attended
it was confirmed that he
started
or he had began worshipping at one of the mosques therein in Iraq.
They go oklahoma city and may they said he wasn't very outgoing people,
described his behaviour is as odd and so
that he was a little weird, but there
his behaviour didn't really raise any red flags,
No one had attended services. Where sermon
it. At least this is what the the director of the
lompoc society and greater
Go home. A city said: was that no
when the attended services were sermons were delivered against beheadings, like those
emitted by ices militants
No one's actions did not reflect the police of Islam and I was wrong,
the saw you mom yet that aside man so
I did find their on line that that I,
a play in this,
from a person there
stated that they attended contradicts
the stately, does contradicted a little bit, but
person states that they attended that same mosque with them. Alton no one
I observed the teachings of islam. It took two years to learn what I know about Islam today to the public. The mosque will not promote terrorism or any kind of radical acts, but when they're among friends and congregants only they will promote the true teachings of Islam, which include the offered to non muslims. The choice, rather that you must convert, live under islamic rule or be fought against jihad for similar jihad. For the sake of a laugh when I was attending the mosque, I was specifically told, for example, concerning suicide bombings in Israel that we do support these acts because, as it was told to me, this is the only weapon the palestinians have, but do not mention this to the media, because they would not understand the only time that beheadings were discussed was in the means of which you confront the infidel, as it is related to in the koran that when you meet the unbelievers you should smite at their necks contradicts a little bit. Now again, I don't know how accurate this is. I don't know if this person really attended the mosque or not, but this
this was that this was a
a credible news outlet that this was on.
I didn't just pull this like a ran from
somebody. This was an actual interview right from
credible news show, but the
thing that I took away from
it was the fact it.
He stated in the koran it talks about. You know
and and smiling at their necks, and I think
that's where a lot of that.
The beheading in the deck
and their behavior
from that interpretation. I guess that's the
and I think that's why they're were us. There was so much argument on many sides
You know with the fbi with the power,
Q share with the attorney general's office with other agencies, some
thought it was radical islam
right. Radicalism, I think that terrorism style others thought
was racially motivated. Some just said: hey is there? Was this a work place, violence in action?
and even if it was- and I think this is where we
We see a lot of issues when,
talk about religion because
talking about one individual. That did something
and you
have to be very careful of painting with a
brush all of the people that practice that religion,
and sometimes the media doesn't do a great job of that you. I want to make sure that that we don't do that, were not we're, not painting,
Oh, no, not at all muslims and in a bad light whatsoever where there's theirs
simply given the.
tell the story as it as it unfolded the radicals in every everything
yeah. I mean you know you can look at every
race, religion, every segment of the population,
and you have certain
people out of every one of those segments that
has the ability to do something bad remain. A clear example is we're talking,
no oklahoma here. So we have
oh go bombing, which was radical.
but it was an islamic radical. You know christian radical that you know blew up the fbi building
yeah tat. They yeah right back and forget the
now, but it's been a long time ago here.
You know that there is a radical extremists on the other side of the fence. So you know they look.
This case, I think out.
They come down to? What might that? It's? It's not terrorism.
And I don't think you're was on her way what you
I think, and really what we think doesn't matter hole now. I think they got it right. I don't think it was an act of terrorism. I think it was
a series of events, these
spend chin
now. I won't say that so
of the
radicalism may not have played into it. May at this
is watching the
beheading videos and
he starting to look
osama bin laden and other isis commanders as
what it was when I went to users
idols, I mean. That's has to play some part in it, but I dont
I'm not sure this that ought no one would have gone out and done something you don't
that was the motivating motivating factor that got em right once he was there. I don't that
I took over at that point, then. I don't think that was the motivation.
I think, when he was when he was there. I know that even Tracy makes the mentioned now when he went to run torture.
You know he does say somethin in arabic, but europe
But she doesn't remember what it was, but the
the motivation behind
the crime was the fact that he,
to go there and take care of the people that too
a man revenge for revenge
I think I think
the motivation, was revenge, but when he gets there
he doesn't just stab Colleen.
for no, he uses methods that he's learned from
watch an online video right now. Do you care
that a tear. I don't call that a terrorist attack. This is the message
method that he used, but I may
its heinous none. The less leaders
I mean, let's talk a little bit about what ultimately happen you
all no one is charged with murder
in five other felony
Yes,
this is where things start to get.
Since I start this is where things get
You know a weird in a different way, because now is in the judicial system.
he's already areas in jail and
they're trying to prosecuting anyway
to plead guilty. But the judge.
Doesnt letting plead guilty because
he just not the judge from what I read is not sure that
all to no one fully understands the consequences of his guilty plea, and I think
she also wanted to be sure she she was
on to make sure she took the cautious route
so when the verdict was rendered
that there was no chance for him to have a retrial. She didn't wanna put
Collins family in tracy through something like that again so soon
yeah. She says she was aired airing on caution,
sure that there's gonna be no future retrial
so so the strange part about this is it still going on.
I mean this has not been resolved,
obviously he's in custody.
as of I think it was,
August two thousand, sixteen the
My and in the lawyers were still going back and forth in arguing about his men
stayed and whether you he was
the competent to stand trial
A couple of things that that I read were.
that no one had refused to cooperate with his attorneys, because he he can't thought
did they were part of some big.
Spear sea, along with the judge,
to doing man, which I don't know how they could be. He was already is already done in writing cell fan. He wants to plead guilty, but.
I read that that he he
wasn't a very good
defended in the fact that he wouldn't he was willing to work with his defence attorneys. The defence
They have to mount a obviously in every case
they they tried to frame it as though there there
I was mentally incompetent
and then on the other side. Prosecutors are saying no he's he's these difficult to deal with.
But he's definite, competent and I think tat
Commission believed that he was competent from the gate go in their growth.
Definitely right on this one.
Here I do, I gotta thought they were going for the death penalty.
I don't know why they wouldn't, if it
This should be a case that would warn the death penalty. I would think so right now.
There really nothing going on until they did
The judge is satisfied that.
His mental state is such that he
fully understands. What he's doing by entering this sum guilty plea
I read the prosecution, basically things that as soon
it comes back that he's
competent.
the judge is going to accept a guilty plea and
Gonna move forward with the sentencing at his thing. It's
crazy. That has taken this long to to get
I did too, and I actually read a quote from
this guy named garv than isaac sees a defence attorney and
is actually the president of the Oklahoma bar association so,
say he's a well respected attorney
oklahoma-
and he said it's it's very very unusual for a job
to reject it a guilty plea in any case
But he goes on to say in this case he believed,
Is that what the judge?
did, was right in that area.
Examination of all.
Nolan some mental state is is worth it worth worth.
In the time I guess too, to accede.
the time frame to make sure right that sum of vertical
It overturned? Yes, a basin
what you said I just went in a much
longer fashion, so that better hidden
and a different way, and I if you read anything else gibbey but as far as I could find out mean there is really no
time table now what
can, I have, to you, know, follow back
up with it given update. You know if we ever
anything ever develops from it.
Because I I couldn't even find where his
competent when his next competency evaluation was do right and obviously everything moving forward hinges on that. But
yeah. I agree we can. We can stick,
update on the end of a future episode right with canada can keep an eye on it.
So gimme me gay thing else now
this was interesting
and a little bit of
So what I want to use a little bit of what the difference of its,
ratio, if it's a workplace of its
terrorism the little on it as it is a different type of case for us right and right is one.
One murder and then you know attacking somebody else, but it,
in the end those things are bad. What
I think drew me in to the case. Was all these ancillary things? You know
and we have
him getting in trouble
battering this police woman,
a really sir sound that, in
stingray tissues like a bag back,
bad young man eyes back. I with rage issue. I think that's a given by right wing when you ve got this police officer that is low.
Back to.
and ten saying you know I had. I wish I had a right to.
this guy, because
right. We were struggling and he was
oh sure files. She feels
filling guilt, but she price fills maybe
should have shot him? And you know these two people would be
Colleen will be alive and tracy will be traumatized for rest of her life, because I don't know if that the the police woman ever has come out and said that, but it will
Surprise me that in
moments along with other people. She she would say,
I should have shot this individual
If I would have been the none of this would happen like we we talked like you talked about.
The other interesting piece
is really. The
race, verses, religion, verses, revenge and
in examining that again,
taking a look in, seeing which one
which one is it. I think
haven't rivalry saw,
I'm curious with the listeners and may be there
their. Let us know either on your facebook
your instagram or your twitter, how they have. How do you like these cases? You know we we do
big ones right we do some of these are more well known ones, but these ones that are lesser known but interesting. Yet do they like em, I think I like to,
You're that feedback, and along with that I had loved feedback on what they think
The motivation behind this
terrible murder yeah. We you
I talk about all the time we love the interaction,
the listeners in and weak
said from the beginning rate. We talked about.
Trying to do a mix of we're gonna
the big ones, but you can't
rushed through all the big when you can't do. Bundy
gay see Dahmer back to back to back
right- it's and a lot of people have said they are. They enjoy
some of these ones that they ve never heard of, or maybe they kind remember him, but they dont know the details.
And then some people really like what I'll
I was called the big timers
gonna do all of em. Don't worry about that? You know what
do add gain and we're gonna do Joe
john
Gacy and because I
we're going to do zodiac. You know we're going to do zodiac because that's my all time, favorite, probably a five parter, but
the add on humming that'll, take in
between you know we we we try to find some of these
cases that are interesting and less well now, but
I like your idea making. Let us now because
we're only here to do.
To give the the audience what they want right now we can't
please everybody all the time and we found that out pretty quickly right
if some people that light. So
the things that we do in some. Don't
like some of the other things that we do, but that's our I leave it out. Tell us exactly so anyway. Let's wrap up this
pursued,
you everyone for listening you as always stay safe and keep your own time taking.
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Transcript generated on 2023-04-09.