Welcome everyone to episode, ten of the true crime, all the time, podcast gibbey in the studio. What's goin on that's a good data it's always a good day when we're recording like being in the studio right now, it's very cold outside hats. What ten degrees where we are something like that, maybe a little, maybe a little chillier yeah. It's very

so couple shouts gotta give a shot out the cassie pearson she did agree Scott Petersen meme, and at giving every. By knows how much we love me, I love those names. You did a great job. We gotta keep em coming. We love em We didn't even know what a meme was. I don't think before we started this podcast in our infatuated with me, Jordan got his role, anonymous, yep, Jordan started this whole mean craze for then, a very special shoutout, Sarah, Sarah are newest, patriarch supporter, and thank you enough. Sarah furred decide to financially support the show. Really makes a big difference. So you you- can help support to show for as little as two dollars a month. By going to our patriarch page, you The patron link in all of our contact information on our website a true crime, all the time, dot, com,

If you love the show, please remember to rate review us on itunes now, most of you are familiar with Jeffrey Dahmer. We covered him in multiple episodes. What a twisted individual mind of a monster from iD is out with a fourth season about Jeffrey Dahmer on mind of a monster doctor. Michelle war takes us through the story, starting with Dahmer, his childhood and the first murder all the way through his death. The podcast features jaw dropping never before heard audio recordings from the detectives, journalists and others close to the case to explore exactly what happened and how His killer came to be so. This sounds like a very deep dark and for me, anytime, you get never before heard audio from people very close to the case, Ahmet, listen to mind of a monster on apple podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcasts so we have a few big announcements to make the

does that the wednesday after this episode airs, we will be releasing our first listener. Co host episode. It will be Scully be very similar to our regular episodes, bobo if cat listener on with us, who is from the area familiar with the case, and they should be able to add some great information to the episode I have. we're five other people that have expressed interest in and doing this if you after listening and you have a lesser known case, that you're familiar with or that occurred in your area, and you think you'd like to come on with us and be part of this new, snore co, hosted episode segment, definitely reach out to us, I dont know exists, finally, how often will do this love it will depend on. You know what kind of demand we have, but the year we won at this first went out there in and see what people think of it. So this

Second announcement is, is pretty big and that gibeah and I starting a new podcast. Hard cash shares the name true crime, all the time, but this one his unsolved, so Basically, the same logo word Just just have the stamp on it. That says unsolved. That kind of runs through the clock. and what we did is we. We made the decision that we're gonna stick with solved cases. On the regular t, catch show that we ve been doing and then we're just gonna start a new key cat unsolved. That looks strictly at unsolved cases, So if all goes according to plan, the first episode will drop on sunday, the twenty second, the show should be out on itunes some time this week, free to subscribe to

but we will definitely make the announcement again on next week's true crime, all the time like I said I had the same logo they'll just have an unsolved stamp running through it, so for all of you out their own social media near they keep saying you wish. We were put out more episodes. Hopefully this will help satisfy that true, I'm craving, I know were, were really excited about it. Some we ve talked about for a little while and we hope you like it. and in the last announcement is there We should be offering up some true crime, all the time merchandise for sale in the near future, so actually beyond the look out for that announcement on facebook, twitter, instagram. I'm sure make an announcement on the pod cat, it's episode right before we're ready, to unveil, but a lot of people been asking for

merchandise, and then we're gonna get some nothing better than to listen to your true crime, the time why your sipping, a cup of coffee out the crime, all the time mug. You know found, I'm gonna give top. This is top secret, but I found was what they call it. Skew whistle for peace, put on their key chain or the loved high pitch. Nor yet they run into any problems. Ask us a true crime all the time. So me what is better with you just and to a scary yap, so jus crime. All the time Gotta go out, it's dark at night. You get here rescue whistle attached to your key ring. no brainer right there at their gibbey are you re to get into this bizarre to crime story? I am stuffily a little different

where it's different for us in a couple of ways, a number one: it's a case of workplace violence and We haven't done one of those, there's a lot of mount there and I'm sure this will be the last one that we do. It is a little different for us so today we are talking about the case of all to Nolan who in turn, thousand was fourteen. commit a very brutal homicidal rampage at the place that he worked you strangely gibbey. You- and I talked about this before we went on air This is the second story where ten up so- and this is the second story that we're doing autumn man name alton and to me, that's not a name that that I hear a lot notes. Pretty pretty rare, dame China, in fact that fact toyed with the fact that you

two murders. That name is part of his are yet so a little bit about all? No one here, born in nineteen. Eighty four and grew up in a very rough neighbourhood of ida, bell, Oklahoma,. Give me I don't know few looked at it thing, but I did a little bit of research on ida bell because I've never heard of it. Not overly familiar with Oklahoma. So I wonder, do a little bit better, research on it, but yet all town looks like b, seven to ten thousand, people haven't been there. Been through. I went home, I saw one place. You had not been I'm in Oklahoma, but you know Oklahoma city, but yeah. I never heard of the place yeah I hadn't either. created in the southeast corner of the state. What thing that I did read about ida bell was that it some some rough patch to it.

I'll Nolan would grow up in in this kind of A part of about that. Apparently there was a lot of crime and there were a lot of murders. place, so another nother person that grew up in a Farrier tough neighbourhood programmes, tough childhood, I'm guessing. I could not find a lot about his childhood. we found in a lot of cases. We ve been able to detail out people's child It's much better. In some of our other cases, but you have some the things that I did find were that in us as I said this, a very, very small town, seven to ten thousand people right. It had a lot of murders, so that's pretty strange. For easily ass a low population over such a low population, and childhood friends later on. After the incident that. We're gonna talk about

They would say that all was filled with anger and resentment. And that he had a temper, and a tendency towards violence from a very early age and it tends to come from the way you raised nor upbringing upbringing has something something here in your early life causes Rick I mean you'd, you're, talkin, nature, verses nurture their and bright. We don't know exactly what it was, but obviously there was something in him that caused him. Filled with a lot anger and resentment, but very interesting fact about this very small town of ida bell was that who of altenburg childhood friends would also turn to be murdered really Yeah very I found it very strange, so he friend that was found guilty city of childhood childhood friends that a later I'll be murders.

He had one friend that was found guilty of murder and two thousand thirteen. And killed his boss, ETA, sonic, restaurant, so another place violence there and that's strange right so little connection, their parent lead. He shot her multiple times, starting the point. Blank shot to the bay her head stole the days deposits for the the sonic Restaurant She had honour that. That's the friend right so friend was he ultimately plead guilty him and was sentenced to life, and I assume he still fur Nine thousand dollars and yeah yeah, and we can talk about Craziness of that, but makes a lot of sense, so second friend childhood friend that he had murdered a woman and her batter Apparently he anna and another, a kind of person accomplice state.

This woman multiple times and and killed her, found it very strange that you know these are. out hood friends of his. They grew up in the same neighborhood, an appeal, lee they grew up in the same situation, so so clear, as this was a pretty rough negative words, I'm guessing by I don't know the areas I don't know. If you call it projects, I don't know if you call it just know the neighborhood, but for three people that knew each other that ended up committing these crimes times like that that would be weird. I to me that would be weird in the big town, but a town. The size of seven thousand eight thousand nine thousand whatever it is to have three child, friends there they are there, Then there are already childhood friends and have done anyway. May I add yet, though we know,

no, but I may I do know and have been known people either I worked with a merlin across and a signal ah straight or in the same. Neighborhood emit commit murder right right, we have got into the those we ve got him just over a few of them but these weren't you yeah. These are childhood friends that you know I used to play football weather or anything like that. So, let's start off. You know as we like to do playing clips. Let's start off with the the nine one one call and then we'll talk about what we hear:

I work tomorrow. Nine one one where's, your emergency food, more of your home or two. Sixteen of you are gonna wanna talk to someone in the building. I was just informed that I am inside daily office or in the office front. Office of the building can hear a lot of screaming we're actually going to different office, but someone just handling the weather out in the building in front of the building, there's our main entrance, and you know that we we know that if you stab someone out to them now, laceration non sixteen dammit they're paying NE your speaker phone one. Second, okay, then down on that page, sixteen lh kind of okay, so we don't know where the person when he went through our front office went to the shipping office has set out a woman in our customer service. Depart. Okay. Did he know? You know she is an employee? Ah, ok, thank you lock that door. He can yeah we're trying. Can you hear this? In the background hand, me back yeah. It sounds like he's running around out that a gunshot or for finding volunteer we have gotten shot the guy now he's in the hallway, outside of the center of the building in a hallway in the center of the building.

We can hear the nine one. One call and we hear them talking about all too nolan through the VON foods right again, ultimately can ending up with gunshots. so, let's talk a little bit about what happened in a minute. I don't This didn't. This didn't take very long, no it happened unfairly fast right, Oh, no one enters the bond foods And he immediately counters before your old Colleen hovered right. in the one. I think some type of administrative office. What I got from the research giving correct me as we go, but he he encountered her like from behind. By came up and her from the high right and

Please lie seven her head with a knife I could probably reaching around. I think he re you know so you know he had a parrot nice any reached around and slipped the neck and then continued to sever the head. We're going to talk about what kind of story this became, but right yeah I mean this was not to be too graphic, but it was a decapitation right. It was a beheading. If you want to, right so a little bit about Colleen, she was free, am more oklahoma. Born in germany, probably on an air force base, it doesn't say But she lived in Montana and was he's in Montana. She met. your husband in montana, and then they settled and more oklahoma a daughter, Colleen was an avid hockey fan

What I read is, above all, she just had a real joy of life and she especially close with her family, and most of all her granddaughter. So We again we We try to talk about the victim. says as much as we can, because we don't want all of these podcast just about the person that that perpetrates thee, the criminal act so he's Decapitated, Colleen hovered and From there he runs into another employ so I'm ain't so that I do you want to step back a little bit talk about how it brood up to this point here. We We definitely can there. There is couple of things. I've got a little farther down in my notes right, but we can

we can do it now, because there was in different reasons that led up to this altercation, her son altercation, that's rampage You know folks, I love audible, audible, less me enjoy all of my audio entertainment in one as inaudible member. You can choose one title among to keep from their entire catalogue, including the latest best sellers and new release. You also get access to a growing selection of included audio books, audible originals in podcast. Like a mention, you can download a stream included titles all you want. I like the fact that honourable goes with me. Wherever I go with our want to listen to apply, cast or a different type of title. It's there from new members can try audible, free for thirty days, visit, audible, dot com, slash t cat tc, eighty or text he

to five hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot, com, slash d cat or text, t c, a t t to five hundred five hundred hey. There are can't fans. I want to talk to you about etsy. I love to shop on etsy for beautifully made items from independent sellers. Etsy sellers have everything from statement pieces like rugs and sofas to daily staples like outerwear and accessories shop, jackets, jewelry furniture, art and more made for all budgets, and any occasion I've been able to find some really great handmade. True crime related things on etsy and I feel great about these purchases. Someone put a lot of work in to these items and I love them. We keep them in the studio. You owe it to yourself to check etsy out. I know you'll find something on there that you really like whether it's something true crime related or not. Maybe it's a new coat, maybe it's a great new pair of shoes, new to etsy use the code new for ten percent off your first purchase. That's code, new maximum discount value of fifty dollars offer ends june thirtieth. Two thousand twenty three c terms that etsy dot com, slash terms for home style and gifts, shop, etsy, dot com etsy has originally the police would.

without a statement that said. Tat, no one had just been terminated from from the vote. Foods because he worked there too. This is september, two thousand fourteen and right. After this happens. They they put out a statement saying he been terminated. later on. They were correct that from the research that I did and say that he had been suspended. So you ve got that that's that one factor, and then I think the fact that you're, probably referring The most is his issues with Tracy johnson here. basically the reason he gas, suspend it so Well, we know we know that. he is employed there he's he's must be working and tracy- is but on a job. For three or four days right. She she just was released. prison she d some.

and his unrelated, but you know it's it's a good point to bring out. She just came out of prison from some check fraud, shoes and she serve some time That is the surfers job. geez. I believe this is our fourth day into it and she's workin on the simile line, and she sees alton You know he's there, but he's guph office, not working and she's, not afraid to say sometime in sheep, says you know you need to do your job, get busy. Stand around and who off she bay. it tells him? You know your lazy. Well, of course he doesn't like that, You know he make some comments and make some racial. aw comets towards her

Scully. You know says something like you know, I don't like white people and a few other comments so that's what that's that's, what leads to harass go ghost hr files that complain or somebody else, also files a complaint. So then they pull him and to get his story, and at that point you know he gives his stories well and at that point they decide to put em on suspension. We even told the leave cause One thing we haven't talked about. So all com, There you go. I knew I was going to say alton coleman, so you thought was gonna, be me and I did think it was can be. Alton nolan was muslim, he was, and there was a lot of information that he I had been trying to convert some of fellow employees and I dont know,

that also lead to the lake it was spencer was, can was a combination that he was making religious comments and racial. Racial comment was a combination and we're going to talk a lot more about the fact that that he's muslim and how that plays into this story because it becomes a huge fat after after fact, here yeah so so he leaves goes home turns within fifteen minutes. So he's not gone very long right now and I have- and I have that he he brings back a large bladed knife- use pairing yeah. I think pairing knife as something that I use the little up an app right. What that's you know everything that I read it. He went home and got appearing I've. So I don't know what is pairing might look like right, but I what I have as a large bladed knife that you'd used to cut up like heads of let us right.

So a chef's knife, a chopping knife or whatever they call that I dunno. I think it would not that you couldn't do it, but a paring knife would maybe be a little tough. right then you could do you could do that with any sharp enough, I guess, but you know that use, does no pictures of the evidence after so there's no way for us to actually see the size of the yeah, we're just one life, but we're just going off different media stories released. But I think the key is that you know he's he's pissed off he just been suspended. he goes home gets a knife, because we know that at this point here turns to bonn foods for revenge trade. I think that's that's pretty well known and any scott, history of what you said. He's got a history of rage, round to his friends right. You know where he grew up and then so

and I don't know what we're gonna dive into a but he's got a history, and I think we, let's, let's finish with the actual, what happens at bonn foods and then we're gonna talk about his streets and in some of the other things but cause is already gone back where he talked about calling hovered and it was important that you took that detour, because the next person that He encounters is Tracy Johnson and that's the reason why I know that's the reason why you want to take a detour because it sets it up. My standing is that he had three targets. The first one was Tracy johnson nets. the individual that head in his eyes. Probably gotten him suspended the other two I couldn't. I couldn't find their names and maybe you have em but I'll have, but it is IRAN. that because they were not injured, he never got foreign. to get to them right in the plan.

I think it was the he was We wanted to go after the two animals that made the complaint. and then the hr person but and that would make sense because in his mind, its revenge, and it's all about this suspension. It's the people that caused it. The people that carry it out, but you go, let's go back calling covered because wasn't part of any of it. Now she was jason in saying in the wrong place as it a year time she just happened to be the first person that he encountered him and because of that, unfortunately, she she lost her life right and so the dressing part is so he does. What is that he did to to her he comes up behind from her slits throwed cuts the head on right, however, that motion happened. She put up a struggle, I mean sheesh,

he kicked over some chairs and the office. I can imagine that anybody wooden right as an area you could turn in the room she was and it was you could tell there was a little bit of struggle so Meanwhile, Tracy she's back in the locker room, changing closed innovation. And she can hear the screaming She says she doesnt realise she thinks it was his people messing around. She didn't know think severe so she hears that and then she comes out in walks into the that office. And she sees the first damn laying bare, but you can't tell the heads been severed right, you see a lot of blood I imagine it was had there been a lot, so I d like it. Would body for iter out, and there is a lot commotion going on. She says

we she went back to locker room too. Retrieve something, and then she went. to go back and sit with the victim to help arrived on her way to returning back to that office. That's when she came face to face with alton and at that point That's when you know that more details, but I believe that that's the point when he wrote is to her- and she basically says that he's I feed away, but one makes his move at sight within a second and have two seconds he's on her, and she freezes because she just doesn't know how to react to it in with it, time. He takes a knife to her right side of her neck. Yeah me he's trying to do. Yeah he's trying to do the same thing and tries to diseases male millimetres away from heading.

major artery right. At that point that when there co worker. Slash part time sheriff takes his shot. Yes, so he here flash tracy up. He he wanted to do the same thing to her that he had just done to Colleen but, as you said and it was actually the the companies the mark vote and so far and wide. Through our boots here he's obviously family, but he. He happened to be a reserve deputy with the outcome. What county, sheriff's department and for whatever reason he had a rifle. I don't if he kept it for protection in the office, but He shot, no one with the rifle and that's what stop the attack. And you can hear that on the nine one one because there's some loud. Cops and somebody

says. Oh that's, does your gunshots you're getting back to tracy and I guess I'll know, and for that matter they were hospitalized, but ultimately they they both survive that's gonna strange and I think in a thick, for both of them There are the same hospital small tank, you know them tell him more right. Yet more oklahoma work a homo, so I'm guessing it probably doesn't have a lot of hospitals. This is probably the trauma one center they have in the area. I dunno we're going to get in trouble now because nobody will lead us everytime. We talk about towns, people say we're ignorant because we don't know how big they are and you know most towns have. Their trauma. One centres that people but they would send this type of medical emergency to an tracy makes a comment that is. She was uneasy, knowing that the person that try to killer was just you know, if you'd was down when you be absolutely, I would be there's no doubt Tracy does maker recovery and

We actually have a clip of her citizen to that. He started slicing my neck and got a hold on my face and got a hold on my right index finger and wouldn't stop and I'm screaming for help and didn't think anybody was going to come around. He got a millimeter away from my juggler corn and to me it would happen quickly, but it seemed to last forever. So I mean that scary yeah I mean I can imagine. I can only imagine what it must have been like for her you mentioned kind of freezing and To see what she saw in the amount of blood and then to see this man now coming, to her. I think people not trained in that type of response,

would do the same thing here I mean any, the feeling she she's canada. She can be tough stand our ground because she was able she wasn't afraid to speak her mind to him about I'm not doing his job in for him to being lazy we all want to? Do well from time to time right so so she'd have it. Speaking of his been. I don't know if that's because she was new on the job and she wanted didn't want to be worry about losing her job because someone wasn't doing their share or because you know said she. She did do a small stint in in you know, and maybe that tougher under up a little bit and she felt that you know she was she wouldn't. Let me buy you a railroad, her, and maybe it's what saved your life too. I might have so she was toughen and even though she froze for a while, she didn't let him now. Also you gotta give credit to

bond, because without him She probably does not survive yeah. I don't believe she would. I don't believe she would be here today and I think she she just she understands that too, and and really, if you think about it, not just her. If more, fond doesn't, have this right for I was able to put out no one down and we were are we talking about three or four of the people. There, many more people right, so it was a good guy with a gun, that stopped a bad guy, which is also podcast that become out soon to throw that out I mean I definitely think Tracy today I mean she still fills the blame for some. Cause she's the one that made the initial complaint against him and she feels This is what caused his rage, and so I think she feels in a bad, because what happened? I think that's natural, but not warranted right. I mean she didn't her

actions lead to this, but they shouldn't have right right. She didn't she didn't bring this on. You know those in her full solely on the shoulders of all nolan and his decision making sought not think Gibbey we get The criminal record cause you you, you cannot touched on a little bit and it's important So about Oh no, I'm because he did have a criminal record use acted on. Drug charges- and I know you- you ve got some notes on the years and stuff, but what was that? Two thousand well yeah, mama, probably multiple, multiple ones. I mean the first thing was that you know he was arrested in two thousand and six for having cocaine and the intent to distribute. So that's his first thing on his record and that's a pretty.

Ig, I mean cocaine and trying to distribute it will yeah. When you get intent to distribute that's a that's, usually pretty serious, and then then he gets arrested again in two thousand and nine for possession of marijuana, which is today not as big as you. To be but hell is legal in most yeah now obliges us, so many states have legal so, but he eats. Is it for possession marijuana naso driving with a suspension licence. but then in two thousand and ten, that's the big ones Is the big one and is the one I really want to talk about, because the there fascinating aspects to this one, he has a traffic jam He decides that and I get you have more information on this one. But it's it's a female officer right. Yes, Is a theme officer. The stopping and you know they. I don't have the specifics on it, but the end result is that he,

overpowers. Her beats her up. He's charged with batter yes battery. Is this altercation with with the police off we're gonna hear from this police officer a little bit, but at this point she could have shot and she didn't, because he, can a beat her up and flat. While our main there and then then ensues this this twelve hour, man he's ultimately captured And then I, but he escapes detention and in two thousand and eleven, but he ultimately serves two years of a six year sentence. And he's released in in two thousand and thirteen, but I want to go back to this two thousand and ten incident because it's it is really interesting and we've. I've got a clip of of the police officer talking about her. Interaction with Nolan.

it's not something that any law enforcement officer wants to do, but in at the time when, when we struggled there was a brief flash of of time that I would have actually had the opportunity to do that and would have been within my rights to do that. But of course, looking back if there was any way I could have known that then could have prevented the tragedies that happened two days ago. I definitely would have done that. Well, I had planned to take the day off, so I was in the guard in the garden and channel four called me and our local channel four here in town, and they called me and told me what was going on and they said you know this is the same guy. We're looking at always c n dot net and they were looking and seeing that this guy is the same one that assaulted a trooper back in october of two thousand and ten album the town of Langston. Then we had a big manhunt for him, and I said that was me. I was the trooper that he that he assaulted and as soon as I realized what what was going on and they said that he had possibly beheaded. Somebody I mean I got goosebumps all over my bodies. All I could do was just thank god that he didn't kill me when he had the chance to do so and then, of course later as I began to think about it, then I was just overcome with guilt that I didn't take the opportunity to kill him when I had the chance to do so.

Give me I mean you can really here in her voice that You can hear the struggle with the fact that sheep possibly could have killed this man back in two thousand ten when he assaulted her that would have Ultimately meant that Killing that happened in two thousand fourteen would not have occurred. She says she's. She was well within her rights and she would have been because yeah: you sought a police officer in most the time you're gonna get shot, but she didn't Whatever reason, obviously, there was no way for her to know that These events were gonna unfold four years later, and I feel bad for a because you can You can tell that she's really carrying around a lot of guilt- bout. This again. kind of like we talked about Tracy Johnson. It's probably hard not to feel some.

built in these situations ultimately. the decision making of two nolan is what led to the answer. in two thousand fourteen all these, that and before although you both The police woman in an tracy johnson may feel some guilt about it. Break there. There's really. They shouldn't it was that individual here I mean, like you said he this time. He was also ordered doing anger management classes. You know his release and I don't know he completed those Clearly, he he didn't learn anything from. If he d have, he did complete em, they did that How do we know that in over the previous job before can it varn? He also as released from that job for Heaven personnel issues, I don't really know the details and that clearly he had a track record of issues.

So here's a question for you. Given all these jobs with this, doing this record. That he's got well I'm wondering, because he had a criminal history, and we know, pretty extensive, I mean, like I had a bunch of parking tickets and I had a marijuana charge. I mean he had a pretty yeah, I mean he was wanted for assaulting a police officer yeah, it's a pretty extensive record and then we also know- and I'm not trying to keep bringing it up, but I don't mean to bring it up. In that way, but Tracy did have a slight bright criminal history? Maybe the bar on foods just do a background check where I may be, or maybe they did, and maybe they we're trying to do community serve. By hiring people leave,

It's only coming out of jail to give them a fresh start, or maybe in that area, for the wages that they paid. Maybe that was the the type of workers that they they received. I dunno I mean who knows right, yeah we're not from the area. We don't know we ever gonna get a lot of emails. Well, I just think it might maybe it's more of a work release, type of maybe they they like fresh start type of I'm going with the fact that they probably didn't do background check like a back back there, what only talking about two and a half years ago and start to get a job today without most places. some form back background check, but maybe you know it's a smaller outfit they're not publicly traded, probably required to do yet and we business varied as supply not required to do background check where support it by thermidor back over one hundred years of quality, craftsmanship, thermidor delivers unmatched performance in the kitchen and beyond. Thermidor is leading the charge and luxury cooking. They are committed.

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and even people that heard, I imagine they had. You know it affected them. Patriciate, emotionally traces even said there. You know she attempted to try to go back to work, but she basically went to work you know what she returned. She walked in and basically ran out and went home and never did decided return again and I get I don't know the go through what she went through to see what she saw. I don't know how you could ever go back and I think it be tough to go back there. in clear. I mean she. She couldn't thank the ceo of more fond. She was absolutely so thankful for what he but even own that he's he's there. She still just couldn't go there anymore after going gone with through what what she went through. So I get I don't remember one, but I don't know you really returned to any

any workplace after going through that. I don't know if she has not since then I think would be difficult to ever. feel safe anywhere for that the aftermath what became the biggest issue of this case was No one's religion Well sure right. He had read the relief in part, because he d, get in trouble. What work for talking about you know trying to convert people to become muslims At the same time, he was also saying that doesn't like white people right so easy we get the race aspects to it as well, this will there's one thing that- and I say this to the n two towards the end of the podcast, but It really happen several months before the incident and that's that It is actually odin had changed his name on facebook to your keen years real. So I hear adopt.

a muslim name which is nothing wrong with people. Do that all the time you're in the muslim religion, but I like advocates. And I know you're going to cover it, and I think it's some has to do with a lot of the facebook posts. Social media posted, he starts put him out there right. I mean he slowly drop in these different posts of more of the islamic american. You know he is new, going pictures of beheading seas. He's- showing the nine eleven pictures in days- praising this. The twin towers, burning on nine eleven praising the action of that he's. A picture of himself at a mosque in oak oklahoma city currently making a hand sign of the nicest fighter these are all post from his facebook page You said you said: osama bin laden on one of my other isis commanders and on these

these posts in these pictures he's also making comments that are saying. Some of my mother muslim brothers. While these urge these some of the people there hey america, the most we are talking about- osama bin laden and his and other isis commanders, and he saying you know- These are. My muslim brothers he's obviously showing a lot of anti american sentiment and rise point and even makes. You know, he also discusses the jewish religion seized were discussed for it. I guess right so he talks about that on his his post in so many other strange things, daddy, post on onest facebook, radiation, Oh study is from these born in jerusalem, Israel. Puts out there. We know true right any put we're things after there graduate from high school in two thousand and eleven. Yet he got from college. In two thousand and seven I saw that. I mean it, it's it's bizarre.

he and he was just even acting very strange near. We talked about the fact that it come out that he before the incident had been trying to confer several employees to the muslim religion, lee after the event or the incident. He he told law enforcement officials that he had been spending a lot of time watching videos of beheadings online. before the incident occurred he's watching. You know why, type of video show beheadings. he's watching. I saw or isis tight videos, that's that's what I and that was big. You remember that before that time. I think there were two Can we're journalist or yeah, and and actually you can, you can view m- ran on youtube. If you could stomach get there, you can go on youtube and apparently he was in I want to say

cheering on. He might have been cheering on right from from everything that I read so that so FBI's brought in yes, determine is a say. crime is just a crime terrorism is a terrace crime. You know so I don't think they were sure at this point and I'm not sure if it wasn't, a combination of all all I think it has elements of racial motivation, and I think it has elements of terrorist dick motivation right. I dont think you. Came back religious heiress. I dont think you I think, there's a workplace violence. I think because he made the comments, I think it was probably more racial that he was upset with these two women. In this age, our person dad

most lost his job. I think he took some of the. islamic terrorism method said he learned in lies those Y yeah. I get what you're saying. I think the reason for what happened was not If he wanted to be a terrorist. I don't. I don't believe that I think it was revenge right he was upset, but the fact that he had been watching these videos of your eye. His beheadings and the fact He be heads calling hovered right that you know, It just made for a huge national media story, and no they. So they were interviewing people at the mosque that that he attended it was confirmed that he started

or he had began worshipping at one of the mosques therein in Iraq. They go oklahoma city and may they said he wasn't very outgoing people, described his behaviour is as odd and so that he was a little weird, but there his behaviour didn't really raise any red flags, No one had attended services. Where sermon it. At least this is what the the director of the lompoc society and greater Go home. A city said: was that no when the attended services were sermons were delivered against beheadings, like those emitted by ices militants No one's actions did not reflect the police of Islam and I was wrong, the saw you mom yet that aside man so I did find their on line that that I, a play in this,

from a person there stated that they attended contradicts the stately, does contradicted a little bit, but person states that they attended that same mosque with them. Alton no one

I observed the teachings of islam. It took two years to learn what I know about Islam today to the public. The mosque will not promote terrorism or any kind of radical acts, but when they're among friends and congregants only they will promote the true teachings of Islam, which include the offered to non muslims. The choice, rather that you must convert, live under islamic rule or be fought against jihad for similar jihad. For the sake of a laugh when I was attending the mosque, I was specifically told, for example, concerning suicide bombings in Israel that we do support these acts because, as it was told to me, this is the only weapon the palestinians have, but do not mention this to the media, because they would not understand the only time that beheadings were discussed was in the means of which you confront the infidel, as it is related to in the koran that when you meet the unbelievers you should smite at their necks contradicts a little bit. Now again, I don't know how accurate this is. I don't know if this person really attended the mosque or not, but this

this was that this was a a credible news outlet that this was on. I didn't just pull this like a ran from somebody. This was an actual interview right from credible news show, but the thing that I took away from it was the fact it. He stated in the koran it talks about. You know and and smiling at their necks, and I think that's where a lot of that. The beheading in the deck and their behavior from that interpretation. I guess that's the and I think that's why they're were us. There was so much argument on many sides You know with the fbi with the power, Q share with the attorney general's office with other agencies, some thought it was radical islam

right. Radicalism, I think that terrorism style others thought was racially motivated. Some just said: hey is there? Was this a work place, violence in action? and even if it was- and I think this is where we We see a lot of issues when, talk about religion because talking about one individual. That did something and you have to be very careful of painting with a brush all of the people that practice that religion, and sometimes the media doesn't do a great job of that you. I want to make sure that that we don't do that, were not we're, not painting, Oh, no, not at all muslims and in a bad light whatsoever where there's theirs simply given the. tell the story as it as it unfolded the radicals in every everything

yeah. I mean you know you can look at every race, religion, every segment of the population, and you have certain people out of every one of those segments that has the ability to do something bad remain. A clear example is we're talking, no oklahoma here. So we have oh go bombing, which was radical. but it was an islamic radical. You know christian radical that you know blew up the fbi building yeah tat. They yeah right back and forget the now, but it's been a long time ago here. You know that there is a radical extremists on the other side of the fence. So you know they look. This case, I think out. They come down to? What might that? It's? It's not terrorism. And I don't think you're was on her way what you

I think, and really what we think doesn't matter hole now. I think they got it right. I don't think it was an act of terrorism. I think it was a series of events, these spend chin now. I won't say that so of the radicalism may not have played into it. May at this is watching the beheading videos and he starting to look osama bin laden and other isis commanders as what it was when I went to users idols, I mean. That's has to play some part in it, but I dont I'm not sure this that ought no one would have gone out and done something you don't that was the motivating motivating factor that got em right once he was there. I don't that I took over at that point, then. I don't think that was the motivation.

I think, when he was when he was there. I know that even Tracy makes the mentioned now when he went to run torture. You know he does say somethin in arabic, but europe But she doesn't remember what it was, but the the motivation behind the crime was the fact that he, to go there and take care of the people that too a man revenge for revenge I think I think the motivation, was revenge, but when he gets there he doesn't just stab Colleen. for no, he uses methods that he's learned from watch an online video right now. Do you care that a tear. I don't call that a terrorist attack. This is the message method that he used, but I may its heinous none. The less leaders I mean, let's talk a little bit about what ultimately happen you

all no one is charged with murder in five other felony Yes, this is where things start to get. Since I start this is where things get You know a weird in a different way, because now is in the judicial system. he's already areas in jail and they're trying to prosecuting anyway to plead guilty. But the judge. Doesnt letting plead guilty because he just not the judge from what I read is not sure that all to no one fully understands the consequences of his guilty plea, and I think she also wanted to be sure she she was on to make sure she took the cautious route so when the verdict was rendered that there was no chance for him to have a retrial. She didn't wanna put

Collins family in tracy through something like that again so soon yeah. She says she was aired airing on caution, sure that there's gonna be no future retrial so so the strange part about this is it still going on. I mean this has not been resolved, obviously he's in custody. as of I think it was, August two thousand, sixteen the My and in the lawyers were still going back and forth in arguing about his men stayed and whether you he was the competent to stand trial A couple of things that that I read were. that no one had refused to cooperate with his attorneys, because he he can't thought did they were part of some big. Spear sea, along with the judge,

to doing man, which I don't know how they could be. He was already is already done in writing cell fan. He wants to plead guilty, but. I read that that he he wasn't a very good defended in the fact that he wouldn't he was willing to work with his defence attorneys. The defence They have to mount a obviously in every case they they tried to frame it as though there there I was mentally incompetent and then on the other side. Prosecutors are saying no he's he's these difficult to deal with. But he's definite, competent and I think tat Commission believed that he was competent from the gate go in their growth. Definitely right on this one. Here I do, I gotta thought they were going for the death penalty. I don't know why they wouldn't, if it

This should be a case that would warn the death penalty. I would think so right now. There really nothing going on until they did The judge is satisfied that. His mental state is such that he fully understands. What he's doing by entering this sum guilty plea I read the prosecution, basically things that as soon it comes back that he's competent. the judge is going to accept a guilty plea and Gonna move forward with the sentencing at his thing. It's crazy. That has taken this long to to get I did too, and I actually read a quote from this guy named garv than isaac sees a defence attorney and is actually the president of the Oklahoma bar association so, say he's a well respected attorney oklahoma-

and he said it's it's very very unusual for a job to reject it a guilty plea in any case But he goes on to say in this case he believed, Is that what the judge? did, was right in that area. Examination of all. Nolan some mental state is is worth it worth worth. In the time I guess too, to accede. the time frame to make sure right that sum of vertical It overturned? Yes, a basin what you said I just went in a much longer fashion, so that better hidden and a different way, and I if you read anything else gibbey but as far as I could find out mean there is really no time table now what can, I have, to you, know, follow back up with it given update. You know if we ever anything ever develops from it.

Because I I couldn't even find where his competent when his next competency evaluation was do right and obviously everything moving forward hinges on that. But yeah. I agree we can. We can stick, update on the end of a future episode right with canada can keep an eye on it. So gimme me gay thing else now this was interesting and a little bit of So what I want to use a little bit of what the difference of its, ratio, if it's a workplace of its terrorism the little on it as it is a different type of case for us right and right is one. One murder and then you know attacking somebody else, but it, in the end those things are bad. What

I think drew me in to the case. Was all these ancillary things? You know and we have him getting in trouble battering this police woman, a really sir sound that, in stingray tissues like a bag back, bad young man eyes back. I with rage issue. I think that's a given by right wing when you ve got this police officer that is low. Back to. and ten saying you know I had. I wish I had a right to. this guy, because right. We were struggling and he was oh sure files. She feels filling guilt, but she price fills maybe should have shot him? And you know these two people would be Colleen will be alive and tracy will be traumatized for rest of her life, because I don't know if that the the police woman ever has come out and said that, but it will

Surprise me that in moments along with other people. She she would say, I should have shot this individual If I would have been the none of this would happen like we we talked like you talked about. The other interesting piece is really. The race, verses, religion, verses, revenge and in examining that again, taking a look in, seeing which one which one is it. I think haven't rivalry saw, I'm curious with the listeners and may be there their. Let us know either on your facebook your instagram or your twitter, how they have. How do you like these cases? You know we we do

big ones right we do some of these are more well known ones, but these ones that are lesser known but interesting. Yet do they like em, I think I like to, You're that feedback, and along with that I had loved feedback on what they think The motivation behind this terrible murder yeah. We you I talk about all the time we love the interaction, the listeners in and weak said from the beginning rate. We talked about. Trying to do a mix of we're gonna the big ones, but you can't rushed through all the big when you can't do. Bundy gay see Dahmer back to back to back right- it's and a lot of people have said they are. They enjoy some of these ones that they ve never heard of, or maybe they kind remember him, but they dont know the details.

And then some people really like what I'll I was called the big timers gonna do all of em. Don't worry about that? You know what do add gain and we're gonna do Joe john Gacy and because I we're going to do zodiac. You know we're going to do zodiac because that's my all time, favorite, probably a five parter, but the add on humming that'll, take in between you know we we we try to find some of these cases that are interesting and less well now, but I like your idea making. Let us now because we're only here to do. To give the the audience what they want right now we can't please everybody all the time and we found that out pretty quickly right if some people that light. So the things that we do in some. Don't

like some of the other things that we do, but that's our I leave it out. Tell us exactly so anyway. Let's wrap up this pursued, you everyone for listening you as always stay safe and keep your own time taking.

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