I was closed for eighteen months and tony you saved my life. If I didn't go to be am I would never reopens after covered. Two years ago it was covered now it's a looming recession and business as usual, what kind of anymore the business that survived the coming economic winter will be those that step up to serve in a new way, Adam revalue, innovate and anticipate. business mastery tony run and his team of need business experts will train you in the seven critical areas of business that you need to master. If you want to not only survive that thrive this winter season, so don't you stay afloat, dominate with thirty two one hundred and thirty percent growth guarantee see if this, His mastery is a fit for your business. Tony robbins dot com forward, slash business podcast when they came up with the idea for shazam. I thought you know it's going to be. People are going to hold their phone up in the air,

and then they're get to know the name, the sire that just felt like magic. It really felt merits yeah it's like you say how can that be? Hey everybody, its mary b and it's my pleasure to welcome you to the tony robins podcast. We ve got a gm free today, as we drop you inside the room of tony's business. Mastery seminar, Here, you witness tony one on one in an interview and what so cool about this one, as you ve probably never heard of this guy this guy, that you ve never heard of the war with dyslexia, who, over a hundred venture capitalists, turned away cold. He came up. The product that I bet you know and love. Let me ask you: this river held up your phone coffee, shop or a noisy bar and then marveled open mouthed that in a few seconds, able to identify the song and artist for you. If so, then you have our friend Chris barton to thank for it.

I was working on the app. We know today as shes em back in the year two thousand, when the flip phone. Still the hot new rage and snap. thing a cell phone could do was down mono fanatic ring tones. There was Chris with this grand idea and a relentless will to turn it into reality. Some of the most brilliant minds at mit and berkeley and harvard all told Chris. He was crazy and that it couldn't be done, but he went on to bring to fruition one of the most popular tech tools of all time. The first person we're going to interview is a person. You don't know the person, but I bet you ve used the product called shes am how much I have to say I'm on your phone. The man who created this when he came up with this product it was empty possible everyone's that it was impossible. He came up with a product three years before I tunes

Seven years before we have had an iphone, I mean literally before there is digital music. He thought of this idea of. Would it be cool if you could wave your phone in the air here, a song then in fifteen seconds, where the song was playing field What that song is that sets up that song and be able to make that happen, and he did it. He did it in spite of every obstacle you can possibly have, urgent and you get selling this business for four hundred ml in dollars. The apples, the fourth largest one a bill, If people have downloaded this up and today, if you have an iphone, you can say SIRI. What's the song its built into syria as well,

please stand up to the big here, but cofounder juice, Chris barton? Yes, there is such a pleasure to meet you in a privilege to be with you. You ve got a product that most of us around world all are delighted by can probably remember the first time we ever used it. I certainly the first time I did driving a car hearing, a song? That's what I'm dr and click add ons. them and go and all my god this song by pink fun ass. This is really cool and I use music and all my burns,

I am always hearing music and I was always trying to gather what is that we call this this the radio stations and say what was that song and now to have this at our fingertips. I want to know before we get into the journey Shazam I'd like to know a little bit about. You tell us what it was like growing up, and what do you think created this belief inside of you that says I can do things. People say are impossible Yeah, let's see, I guess I think growing up similar, my son. I have undiagnosed this alexia and eighty hd, and I had my own challenges of just kind of getting through basic academics and you'd, have to kind of cope and come up with your own coping strategies and find your own. Defining second wins or you just blew my mind because didn't you go to cambridge and didn't you get a degree? What was your degree at cambridge? That was a master's in finance and you're dyslexia yeah. That's while tells us damage that. How you made, remember when I was. I was an undergraduate at berkeley and I remember when I arrived. The first thing I did is they went

and got these syllabus for each class, and I thought okay, now, which causes? Can I take that the least reading involved and also at, and so I was kept people? towards majors and, and and that focuses- Is that not the least reading wow, because as a child so you'd you had this dislikes it? Did it make you more creative yes, I saw I teach by this. My son said I I I've read our dyslexia.

an eighty hd and what's interesting about both of them. Is that while they make traditional academics a challenge and they make it hard to get good grades, said people like charles schwab and richard branson or dyslexic or dyslexic, and it's a- I really believe it gives you superpowers. In fact, they call the thinking of of dyslexics. They call it big picture thinking like an ability to kind of see like orders of magnitude more variables at the same time, and almost just have clarity about. What's going to happen, just think about that belief, everybody you take what everybody else tries to make a limitation, and you see it as your superpower and you'll find it's benefits. That's how your life changes if your identity, mature identity shifts your whole world shift. So you go to school and what was your intention? What did you think you are going to do where you want to penury or no initially, I initially, I did start at berkeley as an engineering major switched out of that to economics and business, and I are gonna- did a traditional route. I would indeed management consulting in my first year

out of college? Wasn't really on my radar to start a company at that point, it was only when I was doing my mba, I went back to berkeley through my nba, still not realising that I want to start a company and it was actually in the first week of my mba programme, I was in the computer lab and next to me was a a guy that was one year ahead of me in the second year of his envy of the nba, and I said oh what what did you do before the NBA programme, Harold, and he said. Oh, I was an air force pilot and I thought air force pilot wow and then, and then he said ass. It were if you're doing now he said where I'm starting a company. It actually ended up going public that company a real estate company called ziprealty, and it was it on the web. it was a web and early web yeah cause. This is in that this is nice. Ninety eight, so it is yeah so so yeah he said I'm starting a real estate internet company and I thought wow an air force pilot, suddenly sturdy accompany and about now I have no,

Excuse because I mean that you know that this is about as far as you can get for you know in terms of skills there it's I mean I'm sure, he's great at flying, planes, and so it was very inspiring for me and I kind of thought why you can really just define your own path. You know, and you can, if you just want to do it, you just do it Well, I'm going to start a company as well, and did you have any idea what kind of company you want to start or when did you start something before Shazam No! I did not so at first and was the first company ever yes up until then, I had just been a cookie cutter management consultant. You know just traditional. You know check in for a job and and work hard long hours, but yeah. Never occurred to me to really start a company and what was the aha moment where you got the idea for shazam that so

and so it? Basically, we went through so I I first chose co founders before we actually knew what we knew, what brought the carpet yeah. So we thought okay. Well, let's start a company together. The friends of yours are people. You went out and got directly know, they're, actually, friends to friends, okay, fourth, one! There was not a friday. We had to hunt him down guardians, none yeah exactly the inventor, but these these two one of them was a classmate in business, school, and one of them was just a friend from around the city, both talented guys and you're living. Just to give you the context of the uk at that and so we were living while I was doing my mba at berkeley, but then I was doing ss and then I went out and did a semester at london, business school, and so I was in london where it got wrecked. And so we were- and it was in during that period rose in london during an internship and so on at microsoft. That I will we will decide motive tabled to start a company. We have no idea what, but some and we would really meet a cafes in london and just brainstorm, we're just

our idea is right him down on paper with somebody really companies you consider. You know there was the one that the way but I thought about doing that quite seriously. For a bit was contact lenses, selling take lenses and all I related care on the web this is nightingale yet so actually had we done that it would could have been very successful. I think one eight hundred contacts became a huge business person to do so. I just found that I couldn't get that excited about it. I kind of thought: can I wake up every morning going to sell contacts on the web yeah, you know, and and and as you know, you need to put in a lot of passion and energy to start a company, so the breakthrough idea. Actually what Shazam was not hey? Wouldn't it be great if you could identify a song with a mobile phone? That was not the breakthrough idea, because actually there were about six companies doing that, but that exactly what they are

embarked on trying to identify songs of the mobile phone, but one another, no real smartphones at that point right. This is early days. So so, as one was, sony corp and they had a little startup called e marker. It was actually a device that was not a phone, it was a little device. You clicked and and then there was one called the crashing. I can't remember the names of these kind of companies now, but anyway, so basically, what they were all doing is doing the traditional thing that one would do when you start a business which is just ok, here's a business on where to start. How do I go about it, and so does the logical thing working with existing technologies and building something was to monitor radio play, and so that's what they were all doing. There are monitoring the radio stations and with these services you say: I'm listening to this radio station in a one o five point three and then you enter that on your phone and then

would tell you, okay, here's a song, that's playing at this moment on the radio, because that was technically feasible, but we didn't know what songs were playing on the radio. It's not a hard problem to figure that out yet so the breakthrough or shazam was that I was thinking about that business cause I it was early days and no one had really taken off yet, and I thought I wouldn't be great to come up with something like that, but I was taking a class at london. Business school called strategic innovation taught by coastal marketers, and it was really encouraging to think outside the box about everything question. Everything else and- and I was thinking about if I created a business re good track. What's going on all these radio stations and it would be similar to these other startups, what could someone do that? Would leap frog me that we just leave me behind in the dust, if that's the strategic innovation, so you ve got in terms of your competitor. If you re not business exactly what would just where invest all these years, buildings business? What would you leave me in the dust written just make me a relevant, and then that was that was the breakthrough, because then I thought: what did you

just identify the sun like from the air, not from the radio stations literally in the air, and then you wouldn't have to enter the radio station, and only but it wouldn't just work for radio play you to use it in cafes, bars, clubs, movie theaters. Everywhere you go right. Shopping mall, where your son has is not just radio out there. Yeah that's wild. One of the things I try to teach entrepreneurs is: there's always two businesses running business you're in the business you're becoming an order to be the business you becoming you've got to think about. Would knock you often when you actually use the principle of pretty awesome. Tell me so you come up with the idea. You ve got some initial partners, you start as I understand, If you try to ask people- and they all say it's impossible- which lights your fire- which I loved to tell us more about those early days when it's impossible and then tell us how you got to your fourth partner, your engineer, is it every avery so yeah. So we here we have this idea and again, where non technical, guys, the three of us and

we're like oh yeah, we'll just invent as technology. You hold your phone up and its pattern. Nation, and it will hear the sound for the phone and these are ancient times rather than the euro. This is in two thousand and, and one were identified, the song great. Ok, now. How do we go about doing this going to Google type in a few things? A few queries and we start to realize: ok, the people that are really it danced in this audio area record sort of pattern. Recognition are basically that there are people who are focused on electrical engineering, with a focus on digital signal processing, with a focus on audio signal processing, and then it's among those people focus on audio signal processing. Some people had a particular interest in music, okay, and we find these people on the web. They published papers

done? Various studies and they typically had come out of places like mit media, lab or Stanford, had a guy of the center for computer research in music and acoustics, and maybe in this program, two or three phds would graduate each year and from without music phd music acoustics phd. So we go out and we meet these guys, a few of them that we find just reach out to them and we're like we have a top secret idea. You can't tell anyone, but we need to invent this technology that identifies songs on a mobile phone, okay, hitch and they said, I'm sorry. But this is not possible. How do I know every technology out there? I dont have any way to do something like that, and the reason is because you're dealing with in pattern recognition when you combine two core challenges Those one is scale or music and then

one is noise because you're in a bar, you got people talking and still being and recognize the song at any point in the song to wreck any point in the song, and it could be all kinds of audio challenges and so on. Any of the phones have voters that emphasize the human voice and deemphasize all other sounds noise cancellation. Just all these technologies working against you and it was just incredibly, we would capture some of the sound samples and you could barely hear the music, and so they just had no idea how to do it. We we finally found this professor, who was kind of famous in this little circle, of audio signal processing professor Julia smith, at Stanford, he was famous because he had invented the algorithms behind the armor yamaha synthesizers that are out there today and all yamaha. All electronic keyboards keyboard So we went to him and he said I have no idea how to do this either. But he said, I think, is a great idea and any I'd I'd be happy to be your adviser and help out and so that his first projects as adviser was, I brought him a list of names, and I said:

I found all these names and they're pretty much. You know they're all phds, mostly out of mit and stanford and berkeley, and so on, and I said I'm I need we need a co founder and we need him to be like a genius and so he knew all the names, because it's a small world. They go to the same conferences, and I just said: can you just rank the five smartest guys on this list and just get guys and gals, and and and and we were going to go after those people as our co founder, and I want them to be people that, because clearly they're all very smart or they were seized from mit and so on. But anyway, we said that we need them to be like an inventor, actually an abstract thinker, yeah

and some of that we're just going to go down to the core principles and really think about how can we invent this type of technology, and so on that list we had a little list of the top five and number one. Was this guy avery Wang that had done his phd under Julius? He had four or five degrees from Stanford and mathematics, all busy yeah, I think, he's probably still fifteen years old yeah I dunno he was he's one of those math geniuses. I think that you know now he I dunno how old he is today, but he was a young guy, but yeah just a genius, and so we went to meet him. We, we is actually only he told us later. The only reason he took the meeting with us is because we referred by this professor right, buddy, went out and medicine a little cafe with over berger and in silicon valley, and we pitched our little deck to him and said we need you to invent as technology and he decided it was perfect timing has his own started was failing. He needed something to do and he said

while he didn't think it was impossible. Well, that no, that is a problem yeah he he actually did think it was impossible. He still thought it was impossible, but I'll give it a shot. Yeah yeah, I thought I'd, give a shot and the one problem I faced is that he was he was he was he he kept facing kind of that brick wall feeling like. I don't think I can do it. You know he didn't. He was just here what he would. He was unsure, whether it be possible basically any- and I think he just didn't have he just didn't know if he could keep going, because he was trying for months working with julius to invent this and and actually Julius was such a positive. You know

we can do anything kind of guy. That's awesome that I would I would organize a barbecue and then to keep my co founder motivated. I would say Julia said. I think this is the professor. He did his phd under here julius. Don't you think this should be possible? It's gotta be possible right and Juliet's be like yes, it does and I thought it had to be possible, and so every would just feel the pressure, because it's like okay, they all have these expectations. I better invent something, that's wild and how long did it take before you got the first or first of all in order to do this at that time there is no spotify, there's no itunes. So how did you build the database? Forget even the technology of the noise cancellation, all the other problems, Now, how did you come up with a database that could be recognized, yeah so cause? This is early days right, yeah right of what year would this be? So this is basically when we raised our angel round, that was the summer of two thousand and and then our venture around a year later, seven and a half and itunes came in and what two thousand and four

it was about two and there are three or four around there and I have phone iphones, two thousand and seven and the app store two thousand so you're, like seven years before the phone three or four years before itunes yeah no database in those days you're buying stuff on CD, ripping it. What what did you do like a saw? If you went to a music store back then I know cause. I was looking at the stats and about two hundred thousand. songs in total water songs. So how did you get two hundred thousand songs into and out of it, So we were on, we will he also limited about cap capital. So how much did you raise verse, at seven and a half million dollars, which is quite a lot of money. That's what to do what to do what we were trying to do. You needed a lot of money, especially when you're starting from scratch, because we have to build our own search engine as well. From scratch, who'd you go to vcs for that money. We went to Vcs yeah and how many do you have to go to before somebody said? Yes, it was about over one hundred vcs

yeah you, when you give me a fist bump a gentleman over one hundred pcs, though no oh, my god, every every great article I've ever met virtually and virtually I'm sure there are some exceptions who has made it has always gone through one hundred two hundred five hundred. A thousand knows literally to get to that point that, as the dividing line from reality, turn your dreams reality or not, and I think read somewhere. What about you see said you something about no one of them where users I I went what they say my favorite highlights. He was a name. The vc of Adam is a big easy outweigh showed him the demo, and at that point we had an actual demo and added fight, a song and a text message games that the phone- and he said we'll see why anyone would ever use that had I. I was like that just prevented me so much, and I just that by the way,

to say: I'm have you ever heard the golden rule? The golden rule is here, as the gold makes it rules yeah the visa. make the rules, as I was well you're, not sure, but you went through more than a hundred bc. You guys don't ask me worthless you kept going. You get seventy five million bucks, which is not a lot of money for the level of tat. You have to do with s stage, so tell us. How did you even the bad ass. So basically, what we end up doing is we first built software from scratch that that would run on pcs and it would basically were rip cities take the fingerprints of the music we fingerprints from music. So it's mathematical descriptions of the sound ok and then we also so we built that would build that software. Then we hired about twenty five thirty eighteen year olds to work three shifts three eight hour shift twenty four hours a day

and putting cds into these computers running, are accustomed software and and then basically typing the name of every song and the album title and the artists, because that stuff is not all by hand all by hand twenty four hours a day. So we could launch in less than nine months holy cow? How many songs did you launch with, and we launched with one point? Seven million songs, so it'd be bigger than any music store. Yeah yeah it was. It was probably it was probably a good six or seven times that of one of the largest record stores at the time, because even those days you went to virgin or hmv or places like that in london. Here licorice pizza, and yet our records yeah. So literally, this is all done by hand. So then tell us the first version. How long did it take to get that? First version, and if I read right, I think you were on nokia with those little gray screens and yeah, you barely even text back then yeah yeah, you hit him and oh really, all people did with the phones was make phone calls and send text messages. The one innovative thing you could do on a mobile phone was download a ringtone. We all remember that.

It'd be like oh, and it was a monophonic ringtone and, and so we were like one of the first services that you could be other than making phone calls or sending text messages, and did you think it was going to just explode and what actually happened yeah. So I I was convinced because you'd show it to people and they'd say wow, I mean it's like magic, they couldn't believe you'd hold this phone up in the air is very rude bass. If the phone and then for if, after a few seconds, a text message or appear as the phone and it would say the name of the song, you show this to people. They were wow. That is incredible and except for that one vc, of course, yeah adam, and so we thought once we launch this. They have just gonna take off like a rock it out like a rocket ervic wildfire by them

reality is that we had to have a business model at a time and there was no advertising, no, that wasn't even a graphical user interface. So we our model, was much like calling for one one, which was each time you used it. You paid a small fee, fifty cents, fifty pence, and so that was a bit of a bit of a problem bit of a hurdle to usage. But but ultimately we learned that just getting the word out is such a difficult thing and it doesn't matter how great of an idea great of a product you have sometimes just getting the word out as is so much harder than you realize. I worked at dropbox. It was the same kind of thing, amazing product, but getting the word out was just so so difficult. So plus you were so far ahead of the time and transit tech. Ray Kurzweil is a good friend of mine he's one of the amateur. You know one of the greatest inventors of our time and his great skill is being able to tell you ten years from now what can be done? He doesn't know which tech I'll do it, but he knows based on compounding where it's going to be, and you have this vision. How did you know that we were going to go to smartphones? How did you know this was?

when do occur like what gave you that insight when people still just using the phone to make phone calls, I think it was just I I was at myself during business school had bought my first mobile phone regulate mobile phone like a flip phone and a flip phone yeah done. ebay. I forgot what kind of brand it was, but I wonder if it was even nokia but anyway- and I bought that and I kind of thought I could just feel how everyone was getting mobile phones, It just happened. You do remember that day when suddenly it went from being. I know a third of your friends headphones to suddenly like everyone. Headphones are all very rapidly interesting writer too, and I just thought all these people can walking around with phones. They need something to do. There's gotta be something they can do with these funds and- and that was definitely a contributor towards the Shazam concept was like- is we're going to do something that everyone can do with a phone? Not just your computer, Is it's something that is going with you everywhere you go so when you've got a nokia, you do this first exposure, it's hard to get the word out that you thought it would take off and obviously didn't at the level

I hoped, were you able to make money at that us recycling? We were really struggling. We we had a marketing budget that was part of the seven and a half million dollars, and we had we made web banner ads radio ads. We even hired people to walk into bars and just tell people about Shazam yeah, so we're doing everything you can our first married,

as the uk and we when we were when we launched, we were usable by anyone with a mobile phone so because it was just all you needed a phone that could make a phone call and get a text message, which was all funds right. So you didn't need some kind of advanced phone to to use shazam, but we we learned that just the amount you spend on marketing to get make drive awareness to someone was just more than a little bit of money that we made everytime someone says amd, and so we struggled, we barely survived where we actually had two rounds of layoffs. We probably were near bankruptcy for the entire six year period between launching in two thousand and two and the app store coming out in two thousand that I read somewhere. I think in two thousand and three or four like two or three of your partners left the company yeah and then I know you did you simultaneously. I read that you went to work at google ventures. The innovation, and also you just mentioned

and what he caught box and dropbox, it was that happening simultaneously, so you were trying to manage both. So basically, I my full time role. I moved over to Google, and that was two thousand and four when it was an interesting two thousand person company and it's right before it went public right, maybe a few months before it went public and and I just my main launches animals a board member, I was that artists working board member in twenty hours a week on top of my google job. For many many years just doing everything I can to try to make this baby a success. Then you went to dropbox. Tell me what are the lessons if I may ask what stood out to you from your experience at Google did any of that help you later, as as an entrepreneur and innovation and then same thing with dropbox? What did you learn there yeah? That was

alert so much at both places. I mean just the the way those two businesses went around about building taking a core disruptive technology and then making it a so addressing such large numbers of users in a scaled away and really being at the forefront of technology. And and technology development. It was just fascinating. I mean I I was lucky enough when I joined Google, my job was, I was a business development guy, a partnerships guy I'm non towel, so my job was mobile mobile partnerships. I was actually the first mobile partnerships guy at google, and so I had to do the relationships with a t and t and verizon, but also you know, european companies like vodafone and and and nokia in Finland and so on, and I but just being in that environment. I learned so much about things how you think, as a business as long term and up from the founders the way that the founders of Google would approach. Everything like it was a clean slate. They were, they would say or down to

oh, how do we hire people? What we say in the interviews? You know: how do we motivate people? How do we choose to promote everything they which basically, throughout all the standard stuff and then start from scratch and everything's innovation even down out of a group? People yeah, that's really amazing, and what about dropbox would drop? Us is also amazing. I. I just think that company is just so amazing as an example of how drew in a rush thought about the problem, because, if you think about it, basically they were also like Shazam was there were many music recognition attempts before there were multiple attempts at cloud type services before dropbox and none of them took off because they were, He experiences where you had to download a piece of software and then every time you wanted to upload a file you at click upload and every time he wanted the file back, you click download, and so they and and then they can. I said: ok we're not could even think about the cloud problem. We're gonna give that to amazon. Let amazon do all the cloud stuff we're going to focus on the front and experience and it just make it seamless and so on?

way they did. That is basically by conquering synchronization and synchronization is one thing they conquered, and the second thing is integration with a file and folder system so that you can really look like if your own folder, and so they did that. So well that, basically now you just had a folder on your computer. If you, if you put a file and there it was in dropbox, it was in the cloud no uploader, no download and one early dry. Russia once said to me. He said chris, we had zero steps and all our predecessors had one step: click, upload or click download right. He said and chris the difference between zero and one is infinite. Wow. Why it's? I always talk about that to our team. That complexity is the enemy of execution. I can make it too complex. You've took something unbelievably complex that made it so simple for the user. I mean that seems to the secret dropbox, certainly for google, certainly what you did as well, I'm curious, how did you keep the business funded when you're

I to do layoffs and things and keep it going and there's no real distribution channel how'd you do it. Did you go to more money, more vcs that would have been. That would have never worked as say. I don't imagine them giving you any money at that stage, yeah and you would dilute the point of non existence. But let luckily we did- and this is something I encourage heard so many entrepreneurs to think about is that we found an easier. way I would like to see revenue is like oxygen. You need accidents survive, you need to keep breathing, you need revenue to survive as a start up to two break, to bring something ends: a pay, the bills. You can't just keep your eye on funding and sometimes the revenue can come the easier way to get revenues to go after something that might be a parallel to your core business and selfish fishes. Am we built a server to just monitor radio stations, because it turns out it's not interesting, because we found out that we had an amazing, highly efficient technology, and there were companies that wanted to monitor, wanted to know what was playing on the radio. In fact, monitoring

the petition is well. Actually nowhere ask happened. Be am I pay our guy power to get paid exactly even smarter, why they pay out a bill and I was here to artists for other royalty and up until back, then they were estimating, what's played on the radio, they had people to list. to radio stations ready it down and in listening to wonder in a radio play and then projecting that up to one hundred percent it was very, very archaic wow, so they ended up licensing our technology and that brought in millions of dollars in revenue, doesn't make you profitable at that stage or defeat the doors it didn't make us profitable well, but it brought money in and then actually what we ended up doing is selling that business for a big chunk of money while and that money that came in, then it funded the company for several years, wow, the name shazam. Where does it come from, and I heard a lot of people want to talk you out of it? Tell us about that yeah. So so, basically, when it came up the idea for shazam, I thought you know it's going to be. People are gonna hold their phone up in the air,

and then they get to know the name, the sire that just felt like magic. It really feel like merits yeah it's like you say how can that be, and so She's am actually has been it's a comic serious. You know it's it's been used. Is actually a originally, I think, arabic, folklore, it comes from and actually means to conjure magic, and so, in the end, the oak billy bautzen comic series. This letter boy would say: shes am a lady, but would strike down from the sky and he would become a superhero and has been used in the other car, similar match your identity as a superhero, listen, but people to talk you out of it. I was one of a co founders. That is, there isn't one of things you learn reverie one here who has co founders you're? Not always agree on everything in life everything in your business and that can be one of the struggles and ass though in am

hunters. That is amazing guy. I always like to say here's this: the productivity of ten super humans, but he he just said that name is terrible. He's like that's a terrible name. We've got gotta, get rid of that. You know, and it wasn't just him by the way I had v sees as well as we'd pitched to them and they have the gold and, and they would say oh, but you gotta gotta change that name. You can't call it something like identifies, Wong or somebody like yeah yeah, something really emotional that moves you right. Oh my gosh, but how did you do you just persisted and then yeah. I was very nervous because at one point, after raising the venture money, we heard this big marketing who had run out of marketing for capital radio group, which is the largest radio group in the uk, and I I said: okay, now we're going to hire an agency and we're gonna evaluate what name to use for launch, and I thought oh, no, don't give her a bunch of Zam. I just felt so just emotionally attached to it.

And luckily he included? Oh, you guys have made enough traction with this name so far, even before launching oh okay, we're partners we're going to stick with it and I was like. Oh then continuity saved. You tell me: when did you know it was going to work? When was the breakthrough? Was it itunes when one of the breakthrough happened for you and then how did you get tied up with apple yeah so the day the apps, were launched, was definitely the day and it from that day, for you run it from the very first day. Yes from day, one of them was an app invite apple one. It's a showcase amazing things that would show off their new phone number. The iphone had been out a year during that year. They they were reached out to various companies, a small set of companies, some of them gaming companies, for example, and they kind of thought, okay, what a great showcase apps that we can co develop, actually even give they provided guidance on what it could look like and so on and and and socialism was right up,

gate at the opening of the alps door. Their wishes am, and they may immediately had this concept of ranking out. It's based on popularity and shoes and then the app store just grew and grew and grew and grew and grew with more and more apps and more and more people and more and more phones and sure am to stay there in that top twenty or even top, no top one hundred a very by country in time, but it is always remain one of the most popular apps and am and so I remember that in those first few years the appstore apple it produced reports. They they publicly release and say here the topmost, downloaded, shouts and you'd, see like google map side and in our skype and thy face and at facebook and then their wishes. Al and after I have to admit, I did reach out to that venture capitalist by the way and that well- and I said It- turns out we will use this loss of lumber early respond, drew back very loud

yeah he did actually at that time I was working on Google and he came out. He's attitudes have lunch and we had lunch, and we just laughed about. How is this you can predict the future air. You can predict the future. I wish it was great illustrate that wants you to free up. Originally it was a free up, we had initially had a model where you could use it five times a month and if you wanted to use more than you paid for a premium version ashes am I so that was at one of our many generations of business models I mean she's them must have gone through, which is an innovative, more business models and it did on technology, and so did you see how soon before you, you knew that apples taking off how soon before that converted into motivation and for your sins, people are doing it for free, initially and so forth. Tat will I mean so, is complicated that we always had revenue streams, it's just that they would. They would change over time. I mean we are in initially it was pay per use on the on text or Then there were licensing models which I skipped over by the way our industry,

I will use the six survival years where we had better be business. His licences. We also licence should answer. There were like verses to them that we pay loaded on and phones and samson found out. So that was alive this model per paper phone, then the apple in the alps door, and then we had this or of certain percentage of paid users that, though we have and that actually people start to download a lotta, itunes, music. We actually become I think the number one I feel it of itunes down those three hundred million dollars a year of music, download it and apply to ask your man, that's it. Credible so sold at that. But what point did apple bridge you, or did you bridge ample to say by the business and did you have any sense that you're gonna be all self from four hundred million dollars? So yes and ate it,

That was our and I would say that was it within our target based on the venture capital round and on which you raised. At that point, I will keep it going. I we raised actually close two hundred and forty million so when you raise you need that you need to make sure you sell for a big price tag. Can keep everyone happy and an apple approach? You did you approach them, how to know the best they say. Many of the best acquisitions are acts that come out of close relationships. That's alright right and there's no doubt that she had a close relationship. already I mean for years when and went when apple would release new versions of its o s for iphone and so on. We would they would. Sure that she's am already was up to speed rate for the release of the new. Oh ass. We were worked very closely with them on optimizing. The experience to flow through experience to the itunes download, because you are such a big affiliate, dry, where are them? So there are many things we are doing with apple already and we had a very close partner relationship, oh also, by the way we powered siri. So when you use siri to identify a song that was Shazam

and that was a commercial relationship between shes am and apple. What you did that start happening as I started using like a year ago, it over. Yes, no! No. That was a few years ago that was before it was apple bought shazam, so apple watch examined twenty eighteen, I'm going to say it could have been anywhere around twenty fifth. Another example of you know the technology is there, but people don't a lot of people didn't know to use it usually sound, but Are you saying that what he has a european integration to a great extent gerardi bear? How did the path the price come about? So we we worked with a top tier investment bank, for the road show of the emanate processor, goldman sachs, who didn't amazing job and so at their just incredible that they just open the door to all the big decision makers at all the big companies. So, as you might imagine, we went through a process where we're having conversations confidential conversations with lots of the largest technology companies. That would be good fits witches am, I am, and I think, the of the apple ultimately the fit between avalanches em.

The strongest I mean apple cares deeply about music they've always been the dna, it's part of their dna and itunes. I think at one point itunes represented eighty or ninety percent of all digital music in the world and obviously the spotify is a real competitor. Now and streaming music by apple music is definitely up. There is as well as the other leading service, and so it was just a excellent fit between and then the other aspect that was excellent fit. Is that, fortunately, shares am had always been obsessed with simple, beautiful experiences that people loved and we had a very high ratings in the alps door. People love shes, am they love and they just let them, and that fits very well with a user experience focus of applause.

Well, a billion downloads is I've already read. Is that was announced years ago, so it would be. It would be like north of that by now yeah, it's exciting. What an exciting field tell me: what did you experience when you sold the company? Was their excitement? Obviously, was there any sense of loss because you built it? Was it a dream fulfilled and did it change your life in any way? Yeah I mean, I think, first of all it it was such a wonderful outcome as an entrepreneur, because it is your baby, and I was told she was impossible. Yes, yes, I'd say it was so satisfying to see. Okay, this this is now out there and people use it, and then the awareness is incredible and I was just telling Dana gee, I'm never going to like a grocery store and then suddenly right in front of me in line the persons has, what's that song It's behind the counters that lick it out. Shazam and this whole interaction is going on right in front of me. At those kind of moments are just so satisfying this one

in the wild and and yeah and then and then for the ultimately, when you, when you care so deeply about this baby, that you're so obsessed with and then it ends up where it ends up matters. And the fact that I ended up with apple made me so happy. I know apple made. They actually made them. The first thing they did is remove all the advertising we needed advertising, and that was the the last of the business models that we got to. The big ended up becoming our primary revenue stream because we had to survive but apple, didn't The advert had a mirror, so they just remove that and then the app became even cleaner and faster and more beautiful, and it just fits so well with with apple the company. So I was, I've always been. I was delighted from day one that that's where I ended up and then finally, I could stop obsessing wishes

I don't call apple and say now you need to change this. You need to change that. You know they keep continuously improving anything and what about the economics? If it did it change your life radically, and what are you doing today like? What's your what I have so many entrepreneurs? I was fortunate to accompany apple's, well mat for as much as yours, but a vr company and they're really doing some nice things to it. So I know that sense of satisfaction, but on the economic side you know some people's lives are really changed by it. Some people aren't much and I know a lot of entrepreneurs. They gotta start the next thing I know some entrepreneurs is like now, I'm just going to go, enjoy my life for awhile and what what's your life like right now and what are you, what are you doing with your life? What's fulfilling for you yeah? So I haven't I would say I'm a little bit of a hybrid of those triggers, but yeah definitely so it was nice to have a financial outcome and it was a good one. Not it was not a good outcome, definitely yeah, and so that gives you the financial freedom to choose what you want to do and I spent a I love to build

spend a lot of time. With my son lights here I saw the thirteen eighteen and, like me, he is dyslexia. He got all my bad genes, dyslexia aid and you're good to separate her writings that so I wouldn't want to see what he's going to great he's. Like daddy, I got the cleft chin from YO. He calls it the bunch and he's like yeah, I'm not superman yeah so I just tried to teach him. I try to give him the learning that there's really working. You know like that you're. These are your superpowers and if you can get just like richer brand then, and that shows what you can get bad grazing caught in high school and still be superstar and made one day will be an entrepreneur, so I love putting a lot of time into that night. I, with my son, am I do have. I am incubating start up, because I I wanted to start a new company, but I did I wanted this one It would not be nearly as high pressure but still be meaningful impact. This is impacts. Driven start up is it is it impossible

We can be very challenging, as they actually love the technically challenging about. So it is computer vision. official intelligence Leon yeah and its own, and basically my goal is to see if I can prevent drowning in swimming pools, using cameras and computer vision. Wow so yeah. So that's that that's the idea see the best way to think of it is like think of it like a smoke alarm, except it sits in a swimming pool and then the written. The way you compare it to a smoke alarm is that you don't ever think about your smoke alarm. You don't come home and turn it on say. Is the smoke alarm on it? Just always on always there in case a fire starts,

and sadly drowning or something that occur every year in swimming pools is actually one of the things the number one cause of accidental deaths for children under the age of five in the united states even exceeding car accidents, gunshots, poisonings wow- is that amazing and unsafe yeah. So so, basically, this startup is called garde and the goal is to think in a similar kind of way of like how can we think in a disruptive technology way, but also create a very simple experience? That's key, very simple they get here. He also that's easy for people to have complex in the background, but simple that the press symbol for the user any and just suddenly, if god forbid, some semesters drowning, and it could be it adults as well and in one of the famous adults, one of william shutters wives doubt drowned m one of Michael Jackson is, I think, cousin.

is round or something so and so yeah. If, if that were to happen, this would recognize the event by using computer vision. Much like a self driving car recognizes someone crossing the street and just very, very sophisticated recognition of visual events, and it makes an alarm that would set off alarms Oliver, Oliver, that house and yard and then because it turns out that in most drownings is actually someone home? It's just that it's silent, drowning as a silent event. In the movie is people say, help help but in reality, underwater musing about this. This is that that is completely wrong, but interesting if there was something gazing, was not not there that's released into the water that they can hold on to that. That will be the next step, be an interesting pieces so that they can to save himself from the moment that yeah that's very cool. I love your drive as always to do something that lives lives in europe. it gives so much joy to people. What gives you the most joy gosh, I ain't. No, I really! I love, I love being in the outdoor.

it is- and I love hanging out with my friends and the people that I love my family and friends. That is you just realize that the basics in life, the the things that are free, are the best things and down and a really I just have so much gratitude for my family and my friends and respect the ability to spend time with them. Ass, beautiful or we're gonna go for three quick questions. People teen, seven, give it up or, ladies, where are you in the world? I mean San francisco Javert, Let's go everybody given up on your question chris, so just now getting started in my abs in in a high and you're doing what I wanna be doing. What are three things I need to focus on

to actually do what you're doing. I think I think. Ultimately, the most important thing is to focus on the end, end user and to make sure you're really keeping yourself in check with what what does the end user experience. What what are people going to? How are they can experience you're you're up and how much benefit you going bring to them has to be It is a saying that some, maybe I have read that- is it a vitamin arisen painkiller. Have you ever heard that before and and so, if it's a vitamin, it's a little bit better. But if it's a painkiller we all jump ibuprofen or tylenol whatsoever and you're really happy you had it

and so you really want to think about is what I'm offering a painkiller. Is it really just solving the problem and making it a hundred times better and and and and I find that many entrepreneurs take, it serves obsessed with their own vision that they sent has lose sight of what other people think. So I think that, having the day humility to always keep yourself in check and constantly ask you what was not good enough about this. How could this be improved? Tell me what's that about it, that's what I've been reviewed and butter where no back east, she really this phenomenon, she'd works of people. Individuals do not try to convert it to an app she's done. Miraculous work. Great to see you back you thank you, so much giver had everybody I was right. Are you guys in the world We're from my intifada might be given up my uncle Toby Gotham city by public money, where

It is founded on our homework a question was for Chris actually in regarding the app development. Yes my question is with the advances that we ve had in technology. If you had to go to- the whole development in today's arrow. What would you do that would have? set up a process for shazam. Well, I wouldn't have had to build a search engine from the ground up or just outsource it to amazon. Now

and yeah. Many things would have been a lot easier because really actually like the app. What you see in the app is just a frontend to an entire experience and most of the complexity and and really heavy lifting of Shazam is behind the app layer and and and so what we built behind. While it wasn't even an app at the beginning, it was actually a voice phone call and a text message, but was obviously you know a what's called a Beowulf cluster p p c. What similar to what google built stacks of pcs, in which the and within the rounds we stored the fingerprints of other music. We built this huge database of all the music constantly, adding all the latest releases every week and down and then and does the end end experience, so it would all that stuff would have been,

it's literally one hundred times easier. If we had started the company a few years ago, instead of in two thousand and one and we would have been able to then put our resources into different things, and so what those different things are- and I would say, comes back to that piece of advice I gave earlier to all entrepreneurs which is go find that early that low hanging fruit revenue. What can you build that will start bringing in revenue right away, we'll start paying the bills? A lot of people don't realize that in the early days of google, the revenue was a big check from yahoo each year because they weren't running search for yahoo and that paid the bills while they built that business to what we now know as google, and so that type of thinking, I think, is the step forward if more resources into. Thank you, Brian one, more question, ladies and gentlemen, one more it's plant Were you in the world miles?

I am in birmingham in the uk and other give it up guidelines. You my question is what is going on in your mind where you are thinking of this is incredible. My jaw dropped when you told me this new style between poles. My jaw dropped to the floor. I was like what what is going on in your mind? What's this high end that allows you to come up with your stinking to get to that stage where you come up with the idea, because it's just phenomenal my jaw dropped. You mean because nobody else had done it. No way to destroy by the way my my father did his university degree. hasty in Birmingham universities that your ear in his amazing. So you know I find that I am. The ideation process is

it's more of an art and science, but I do think that we all can sit here and come up with ideas We can you can brainstorm ideas and sometimes you just stumble across ideas such as a combination of things where you experience something like in my case. My son was growing up as a toddler at is with his mom There was a pool there and I thought oh, my gosh, like that's it that poor, you think of it like a fire pit, that's a real risk, and so it, and maybe a very aware of the fact that the real something that needs to be You know, as I realise, as apparent it's hard, you can build fences, and ray keep an eye on him all the time, but you you don't know if you can have a foolproof solution, so that was inspiration, but there were also aspects right of, I believe, as an entrepreneur. Sometimes when you conquer problem that really hard you giving yourself an advantage.

because many many other entrepreneurs or even large companies are not gonna, do a very good job of that and you have the advantage of doing it as well as you possibly can, and I kind of thought part of solving this problem as it you're working with the infrastructure of an existing there's a pool in the ground with concrete all around it and pull equipment have to decide how we can work with that environment and introduce this new thing that needs consistent, power and so on, and how are you going to implement it and create a user experience that doesn't involve jack, hammering concrete all around the pool and spending one hundred thousand dollars to install something? So I liked those challenges. The hardware aspects of the of the

the idea. So so I guess in a nutshell, what I would say is that, as you kind of navigate through different ideas, I think you you almost it's. What I like to do is to think about these kind of certain aspects of it. So what's doable what hasn't been done and what can I do much better? What we? What could use brand new approaches and my unique thinking? I often think that the secret weapon that we all have is as business people is judgment right because we all have resumes and experience and contacts and things like that, but those are kind of controlled and measured by other people, but your own judgment that you have one hundred per control that that's just all you and your judgement is that secret thing that ultimately leads to that success. Outcome years later and people later go. Oh wow, he was right. He had this non consensus, insight that that we just didn't see and if you look at so many successful startups, whether as air,

bnb or google or skype, or anything that is a non consensus insight they had. It was ultimately their very good judgment and knowing what the right thing to do is so, as you go through the ideation process, it's using applying your judgment to think about what what are the good ideas, what are the ones that really have legs and almost like playing out in your mind? You know whether this is going to be that has the potential to be a successful business and that that applied for this. This drowning thing I felt like this is something that needs to exist. It needs to be affordable and needs to be somebody that people can put an existing pools and can feel people can feel safe and we need to be able to save lives, even if a parent is just their attention, is distracted and they're running to get lemonade. For a few minutes we need to be able to save lives in those situations.

what's your timeline on this, I'm curious? What's your timeline on this product? Do you have any? This is a this is going to be a multiyear project yeah, whatever oh yeah, it's going to mean hardware alone. They say it's hard and it takes a long time and I'm not at the stage of actual hardware development but yeah. It's it's gonna, be a long term project, Do it well and also, I would add miles as he said earlier. It's also having enough passion behind your judgement, because without that passion you don't have enough fuel to push through those years when it's lean and nothing is working as another one. Thank you for your miles. Let's do one more by the way Tracy. And she's, so fired up in her room near the fire. Alarm went off, she's joining energy or the fire department. As their thing, I stopped. The others do not mince words within its ahead. Let's go one room eleven team eleven year with barbara, give it up for barbara the. Barber where you in the world.

Ah I'm in Vienna what you your question. Creasy shouted the picture with all these cities, and I thought that such a huge task so How did you start to go for it? Did you buy the city's job? What to do it did you do. I think you'll always be in front of such a huge task and you don't get started or the one point. Five million or one point: seven million songs. Words did you go buy all the cds, you say that you how'd you do. Also this. Actually, it is so I like to talk about this concept. They call creative persistence, we asked aunt em, and so it's because all entrepreneurs were all have to be persistent, but I think it's really important is this kind of this. This bring them together. Creative persistence, well you're, not you're, being persistent but you're, also

Really think outside the box and lee of unique ways to solve a problem, I saw this go on a lot. I google and dropbox, for they solve so many different things like when they ingested all the books in the world for google books search. They invented a thing that just turns pages of books, so they could stand them on a scale of away, but so in the, so this city's, without where the start up, and we have a limited amount of funds. We need this much for marketing in this much for hiring inside and so without how it it turns out that the number of cities we needed. This is an error of total cities available in the uk market is one hundred thousand cities. So if we had bought that call it at the time ten hours a sea,

right. That's that's not billion dollars and that's a lot of money or start up only have a certain amount of funding. So the creative part of our persistence is that we went to the company that was the biggest distributor of cities at a time, so is actually had more about four or five times as many cities is the biggest record stores, which I don't care about. Fifteen thousand unique cities instead, I could at a time just had this company called had one hundred thousand cds, and we said: wouldn't you love to have a digital copy of all those cds cause? The world is coming digital, smart and smart, and then so we literally formed a partnership where we up co located on at their warehouse outside of london. Had our twenty five to thirty eighteen years. Was located at their site going into the warehouse, picking a cd from those racks, pulling it out, putting it in the computer typing the new songs and

the returning it again and they didn't charges a penny for that expert really because it was a bit shared the outcome without what I love, as some people just persist asking for something, but you ve got a good way to add value and when you add value with that kind of creativity, that's really I'm so It was the question barbara giver him. Thank you very much. Oh, wait a high my name is Hannah ends. You know because we're talking about music and I have the chance to speak to you- Oh, I'm so nervous, literally sharing the thing is I want to do the same as you do. I want to be people to new perspectives and kind of led them to their deep feelings and change your life for me, because music is so deep in me with because of my dad and everything that

those icons and the the interviews? changed my life and I to be that percentage and the thing is in america there. So many open minded people. We live in Austria, like the german culture and asking culture of kind of conservative and honest peace, because I don't know many artist, it we'll talk so open minded about it, and I want to be there and my question is. I still have some fear talk, about, and it's gonna a big project, its I need to develop the skills because I still think I need to. singing skills, the songwriting in everything- and I no. I just wanted to share that with you. I see that you have that you have, I can see of the passion, definitely have the passion and that's the most of the aspect,

over the contact lens thing. If you wake up in the morning, you like, I just can't see myself when selling contact lenses on the web. That's hard. I can see that you have the passion to be a musician and involving the musician industry. So that's it. it's important thing, but yeah? I would I I I'd say: go for it. You know I go for it, it's a it's a it's that the key is to navigate your way into the music industry and find the people that are already there and already experts and network with them in and asked him all the questions you can think of one of the most successful business people ever met, one of very young

It's a multi billionaire and I asked him. You know how he became one multi billionaire and he said to me- and I shared it earlier in this week, so I dunno, if you heard it, but he said, proximity is power. You know, if you look at somebody like bill gates, you know bill gates quit harvard and he didn't have any software for this company called microsoft or the original the company went to altera, and yet he told them I'm going to go. Do this, but the real secret, besides being very bright and persistent, was he had direct relationships that I b m through his parents are on the board of directors and as you connected with apple and started, build a relationship, then you had proximity for someone to do it. So my my advice to you is number one: stop caring about how conservatives and conservatives there's some of the greatest different radical types of music has come out of germany and

in the past hard metal, crazy stuff. So, while there is a conservative culture, there's a segment that is extremely creative, that comes up with things. No one else does in your culture and so, instead of finding the limitations, find the strings or decide what every great leader as create your own culture right, that's what a leader does you know they don't look, they don't adapt to the culture. You've. I'm sure you've heard the old phrase that says you know reasonable people adapt to the culture unreasonably both adapt the culture to themselves. That's why all breakthroughs come from unreasonable people, I'm paraphrasing, that's not the right language, but that's the essence of it, and so it's like you have to then find within

itself that I have so much passion, so much certainty, I'm going to build that certainty and instead of being overwhelmed by all the things you gotta do to say. Let me just make sure every day I'm making progress every day, I'm going to take a step forward and I'm going to consistently get in proximity with brilliant people that are doing things in the direction of what I want to do and if I have to work as a janitor, which is what I did in the beginning day and night. While I was still in school to get around people, I would be a janitor at this place where I wanted to be around his executive. Quite honestly, I'd read all his his memos and things in the middle of the night, so I could think about how he thought, because I didn't have access like I have today so get yourself in proximity with people who are making things happen and you, and if you do a great job at anything, you do for them. When you work your guts out, you will become appreciated as you're appreciated. You become part of their culture as you come back, culture you'll get new insights and then opportunities will happen, and this

and by the way, told me one point: is that what you want to accomplish, and I gave him so my dreams and goals, and he said well, those are big. He said how many you know private equity guys. Do you know how many people, investment bankers? Do you now, and I said now I don't know. Maybe he doesn't. It was how we spend time with, I said, none he said I want you to go and I was myself, but I dont you have something to give. I would have to give something I just my ma am You're right, I don't know, I don't know what I'd really want yet or how to do it, because it doesn't matter we're gonna want to be around you get around them, and I did this for months. And then suddenly one day sure enough, you said they're gonna want to do a deal with you, and then somebody brought me this deal and the deal at the time. You know maybe about forty million dollars in two when I'd never made four million dollars in a year working twenty our days and then that deal fell apart afterwards. We want change the deal, and I learned from him when somebody wants it

in the video. Don't get pissed think about what you want, and I put that in a new deal where I made four hundred million dollars two years later. So proximity is power, but your in proximity keep your passion alive, keep making progress and make sure you're trying to innovate, grow every day in some way face your fears. Every single day you'll find it'll change. Your life give ran. For clear, first of all, everybody knew I want you to stay longer periods, press your job, yes, so you hear Chris, you know this highly technical business and trying to solve. technical solutions, but you know you can become in credit successful any product or service. If you take some of the same

all these Chris is living. He doesn't talk about it. You see him liberties demonstrating it by who he is that's why he made it through all that time it got to the success he had. The tony robbins podcast is inspired and directed by tony robbins in his teachings it's produced by us team, tony copyright, robbins research, international.