In case you missed it, Donald Trump was indicted once again, this time for his attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 election in Georgia. But this indictment is different from the others, because it involves a RICO charge. RICO, short for Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, is most commonly used to prosecute organized crime. These cases can also be exceedingly complicated, and often take months to even make it to trial. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis wants to see a trial date within six months, but is that too ambitious? Stanford law professor David Sklansky (@d_a_sklansky) explains.
Read More:
Trump's 4 indictments, ranked by the stakes - Vox
Georgia Trump indictment: The 5 conspiracies at its heart - Vox
Florida man indicted (again) (again) (again) - Today, Explained
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I'll be honest. This episode has been a long time coming, as I'm sure you know, former president donald trump has run into a bit of legal trouble since he left office back in April, he was indicted for the first time
honestly, I was ready to throw what we had already done that week to the side and do a totally new episode, and I was ready to do that to more times in june and at the beginning of august. Two, thankfully
The rest of the weeds team, was able to get me to sit tight and patients truly is a virtue, because now three more indictment
Later the legal challenges facing the former president are coming into view and the like
this indictment out of fulton county. Georgia is unique. It's a regal charge, something that's most. Common
the associated with prosecuting organise crimes against the mob, but before we get into rico, here's a quick refresher for anyone not up to speed on all ninety one charges facing donald
I'm andrew program, I'm senior politics corresponding and box, and I cover
the investigations that have been going on
It's been indicted in four different jurisdictions. The first was
in new york earlier this afternoon, Donald from was arraigned one in new york supreme court indictment on thirty four phony counts are false, fine business records. In the first degree, then, he was indicted in florida related to charges the mishandling classified documents. This indictment was voted by a grand jury citizens, the southern dish.
In florida, nine by everyone to read. It fully understand the scope and the gravity of the crimes charged. Then he was indicted in Washington dc about essentially is plot to
day in power and overturn the twenty twenty election result today, Linda
was unsealed charging Donald J trump with conspiring
fraud, the united states conspiring to dysentery
entice and conspiring and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding and
Finally, he was indicted in georgia also about his efforts to overturn the twenty twenty election result in georgia, specifically every individual,
will charge in the indictment is charge
with one count.
Violating georgia's racketeer, influenced and corrupt organizations at can you walk ass through each of these cases?
like what do they each mean winded? They happen like what's going on here, so the first indictment that came down was brought by manhattan district attorney, Alvin brag, and so this was about
the hush money, payments that were made to stormy Daniels, who had alleged a sexual encounter with trump trump's longtime lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen, had paid her just before the two thousand and sixteen election. So she would keep quiet and trump reimbursed cohen for those payments, so he's facing thirty four counts:
of falsifying business records. So next was the second indictment overall and the first one brought by special council jack smith, who is leading the federal investigations into trump it was filed in florida, and it relates to a whole set of
classified documents that trump took with him when leaving office and kept with him
marilla, though his florida estate, eventually the
FBI raided rated mara lago and found a good deal more documents that were still there. This indictment came
down on june s by then on July, twenty
and there were a set of other charges added to them,
related to an alleged attempt by trump to cover up what the security camera footage.
marilla go actually showed about how he was handling these documents. What about the third indictment? So then, Jack Smith went ahead with his other indictment filed in august first in the district of columbia, and this was the big one about tat
his effort to steal the election. It is a pretty lean, clean indictment charging trump charging trumpet just for counts that are related to conspiracy or obstruction. Conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct unofficial, proceeding, obstruction of an official proceeding and conspiracy,
disenfranchised voters, so he's essentially trying for different ways to charge transactions criminally and
this will all be litigated uncontested in the courts as tron tries to argue that, though he was just exercising his political speech rights and what about this? Fourth indictment of georgia, so there
fought in county district attorney. Funny well is followed up,
her own election, related in tight men where jack smith's was pretty lean and stripped down. This is big and sprawling. Trump himself is charged with thirteen counts, but he is charged with being a part of an overall racketeering conspiracy,
under the georgia rico law, which is essentially
law modeled after a federal law that similar that allows prosecutors to basically say you are part of a corrupt enterprise that is trying to do a corrupt thing and we are going to basically charge you for that. So this is where tromp was indicted, but also allegedly part of the conspiracy are eighteen. Other defendants as well
as more than thirty unindicted co conspirators finding well, as is basically arguing that this was a pretty big criminal conspiracy to deprive
georgia, voters of the rightful result
their state, which was Joe Biden to victory.
You pro cap! Thank you so much for joining us. Things are happening
so that's overview of trumps legal troubles. Now that we have the ten thousand for you it's time to zoom in on the most recent indictment, if you read this indictment, you'll see that foreign county district attorney funding will, as has crafted a narrative, alleging a corrupt enterprise and she charged former president donald trump and over a dozen co conspirators.
under the states. Rico along rico stands for racketeer racket,
corrupt organizations, that's is david, skal lansky he's a professor at stanford law school.
An expert on criminal law and criminal procedure and rigour
As we know it goes back about fifty years. Nineteen, seventy congress,
enacted and present sign in to love the federal rico statue,
And that is the model for reconstruction
in most states now, including georgia. All of these things
It's about the federal and the state level outbreak
kind of erector set for prosecutors. They let prosecutors, take particular crimes,
the authority already to charge and make a new crime out of them. The crime
of participating in it
surprise through a pattern of racketeering, activity and enterprise.
eyes. Basically, is any group of people who
are organised either in a formal,
formal way it could be.
a criminal gang it could be
Firstly, it could be
a union or a public school system, or it could be a group of people
who are working to overturn the results of the presidential election in a particular state, each rico statutes specifies particular cry
that can count their so called predicate axe list of crimes that
qualifying georgia's significantly longer than the list that can qualify
the federal statute, a pattern of racketeering activity,
As two or more of these specific crimes that are
related in some way, but the basic idea is that if you commit certain crime
in georgia- and you do that as part of a pattern that involves some sort of enterprise,
is either a formal organization or a loose collection of people. That's an additional crime,
prime of rico and it works the same way at the federal level,
That's so interesting, because this sounds a lot like conspiracy,
What's the difference between rico, an conspiracy charges, a conspiracy charge requires that everybody in the conspiracy be part of the same agreement, whereas a rico charge just requires that everybody whose charge
was participating in the same pattern of racketeering. Activity through the same enterprise, so rico charge can be much broader, not ever
He has to have been part of the same agreement as long as there are part of the same pattern. Racketeering activity
using the same enterprise. So I went
go back in time and I want you to describe what the lead up to this statue was like what was organized crime like prior?
to nineteen. Seventy was it all jesse? Now we ve seen the godfather was it was. Is this what we're talking about your kind of
so the phrase organized crime can be used in in two different ways. Sometimes, when people use the phrase organised crime, they mean any crime that is carried out in an organized way through some sort of system that more than one person is,
then? But sometimes when we talk about organised crime, we have something particular
mine the mafia.
the monopoly gum and the mafia was a bigger deal through. The first
half of the twentieth century than it is today, and rico is party
reason why it's no longer such a big deal in nineteen. Seventy congress passed a huge anti crime bill. They did all kinds of things, but one of the things that there was to create this new offence of rico and the motivation for the statute was,
concern about the mafia, infiltrating and taking over legitimate businesses, and that was the heart of what congress was trying to get at, but every
but he recognized even back then that you can't have a statute that
aimed at italian american criminals. So the statute cast
a wider net for my
her standing. The whole kind of point of this is to get like the big people at the top. The people aren't getting their hands. Dirty, I may recall, is like a lot of statutes.
patterns or combinations of crime? In that? The idea, often, is that you'll be able to get to the people at the top in part by,
going after people who are further down. Rico has sometimes been used to Sweden, people who
operate in a much lower level and criminal enterprises, but it has
so been used to go after people towards the top
Ironically, some of the most famous examples of that are anti
mafia prosecutions that Rudy Giuliani lad when he was the
the journey manhattan back in the nineteen eighties. Oh, how can you tell us a little bit about that
rudy giuliani, first game national fame.
as a crusading federal prosecutor in new york city, and
among his most famous prosecutions, were rico cases against mafia
here's, including very high level mafia figures. The biggest of these cases was called the mafia,
commission trial, which was a very significant.
Case and the mid nineteen eighties against eleven mafia leaders
Putting the heads of new york cities, five families-
It's indictment we mention five setting
in other indictments. In other cases, you ve got twenty mentioned in another indictment alleged. Another indictment of those defendants were tried and
an under rico and most of them were Senate.
two hundred years in prison in that case, and others like it played a cigar,
raw and reducing the influence of the mafia
Can you explain how
trying a rico case differs from trying a regular criminal case. What is that, like guys, really different in two ways? First of all,
we go introduces a bunch of new legal issues if you and I,
are charged where fraud, the prosecutors, have to prove that we ve committed fraud better for charges with combating fraud and with riga.
then the prosecutors have to charge not just that we ve committed fraud, but that we did it in a way that constitute
pattern and that we did it through the activities of enterprise. So there are dish
legal issues that get out and on when regos brought into play. The biggest difference, though, is that rico.
Often charged precisely
is. It allows prosecutors to sweep in lots of different events and lots of different of defendants
who ordinarily couldn't be combined in the same case or the same trial, and that means that you wind up with enormous cases,
with many many defendants. I mention that
The mafia commission case involved. Eight defendants rico case against donald trump in georgia, involves nineteen defendants and
when you have a case and mafia nineteen defendants and there were
I'd range of crimes that they ve been charged with committing. It creates all kinds of complications. You have to figure out. Can they
we tried together or is that unfair to one or more than the? And if they are tried together, how'd, you run a trial with with nine
team separate defenders. Where do they all sit? Where did their attorneys? Who gets to question the witnesses
First, how do you handle objections from nineteen different lawyers for nineteen different parties in the same case,
it can be very unwieldy, yeah.
Never, I have to admit, I did not stop and think about the logistical hurdles of a case this large their enormous. If you think about trial,
you ve seen. Either real trials are trials and movies or tv. You have two tables in front of a judge. The prosecutors are one table that offence is that the other table one side,
a witness, the other side guess the cross examined them. Sometimes there are objections
the two lawyers will go to sidebar with the job
and argue outside of the jury's hearing. If you have,
teams abandons and lloyd.
For nineteen defenders just orchestrating that figuring out physically or everybody sits, sets figuring out what order you're allow people to talk
who gets the question which witnesses when
very complicated okay, so bad three go one or one. Next up, what's gonna happen when the donald goes down,
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Ok, so we're back and David, we just learned about the federal right.
a statute? But now I want to talk about how state statutes can differ from federal ones. You mention
before that georgia has a longer list of what can qualify under a rico charge. Why is that significant?
living and because it means that lots of specific georgia crimes can be part of this indictment. So the product acts that are charged in this case include affair.
Says that seem narrowly tailored precisely for circumstances like the ones that are alleged to have occurred here. So Georgia, for example, makes it a crime to try to get an elected official to violate his oath. So that's a very close fit for what is alleged donald trump dead when he called
The secretary of state in georgia to swing georgia from Joe Biden column into donald trumps, Joe
I want to do? Is this I just want to fight
eleven thousand seven
in eighty love, which is one
For that we have that activity is also charged
the special councils indictment against tramp in Washington DC, but each charge in connection with me much vague
more general allegation that trunk was trying to defraud the united states or conspiring to deprive people of their voting rights. Similarly,
The fake electors scheme in georgia is part of the federal
in fact, in washington, DC its alleged by the special council. This was part of an effort to defraud the united.
states, which is a very general allegation. Georgia, makes it a crime to impersonate a state officer or to commit
forgery and both of those are also predicate crimes
rico in georgia. So the georgia
indictment against trump and his eighteen co. Defendants also less as part of the pattern. Racketeering activity, the forgery of the dock
men, identifying the fake electors as the real actors and the fact that the electors trident
ass themselves off as the lawfully selected electors from georgia. Similarly, it is a product
crime fur under georgia's rico statute to access computer records
our authorization, which is what some of it
men are charged with her.
Done with regard to computerized voting records in georgia. It it's it's, so
fascinating, because I mean the crimes are so specific and the fact that I don't know it just is it.
So I just unlike how they are such per specific crimes that I would never think of, like you know
oh, I mean forgery, yes, but I would never think of making that a predicate cry
but it happens to be in while yeah it's another different
between the georgia case and the federal case, and it's something that, if their convictions, in this case
might later wind up being important on an appeal. There's been lots of them.
Geisha and in the federal courts about how widely federal fraud statutes should reach? And am I think
is convicted in the washington dc case? We can anticipate
litigation on appeal about whether the statutes that the special council has used. In that case,
is really are designed to reach and should reach the claim that bad trump his charge,
having carried out, where is it
georgia case the fear of the statutes for the contract. That charge is much tighter and much more. Natural
feels very best spoke on some. Yet how ya like yeah? Georgia has stature that makes it a crime to try to convince a public official.
I laid his oath and one imagines
that when that statue was pass, this is exactly the kind of conduct that the legislators had a mind. So we know that
I've been eighteen named, co, defendants have been indicted, and there are
So thirty unindicted co, conspirators what's up with that.
How do they factor in to this and why
They indicted betters that set out to me
Something happened to go home, we don't know
Why, though, not indicted? It could be that prosecutors are not convinced that they have enough evidence to convict those people
Hungary's without it could be that the prosecutors are engaged in pleaded negotiations with some of those people to see if they want to work out a piece
nightmare deal so funny. Willis is the district attorney whose brought these charges and she's playing to charge all nineteen defendants together. Can you talk about the advantage
if trying everyone together like what does? What does that do from a prosecutor?
perspective. It allows the prosecutor to tell a more complete panoramic story and it prevents what prosecutors call the empty chair defence. It prevents defendants frowned.
Saying o the person whose really responsible for this criminal activity is somebody who's, not even in the courtroom prosecutors?
are worried that if they try one
defendant and then another defended in the first trial defended. Why
We'll say all this was royal defendant, two's responsibility and he's not here and then in the second
I will defend the two will say what was really all defend at one and she's not here, and if you try everybody together, then there are pointing fingers that each other which prosecutors like because
they feel that they can then pursue a strategy of divide and conquer, and what about the disadvantages its logistically far.
More complicated to try a whole bunch of people together, but it also makes it more difficult to get to trial in the first place, because when you have multiple
and thence they can raise different legal issues and among
The issues they can raise is whether its fair for them to be tried together,
the day need have supper trials, so you can take it
long time to work through all those motions and get to the point where
You can have a trial, fani Willis, the district
the important country georgia has significant experience when georgia's we go law, she's indicted cases with that statute before and she succeeded in prosecutions women.
statute before but the cases in which she's use the statute. I think
show both the advantages and the disadvantages so before she was disrepute.
When she was just align prosecutor fanny was played a large role in a prosecution under georgia's rico love of thirty five educators.
the latter area who were charged wed cheating.
I'm standardized house that case was successful. There were in most of the fence black guilty twelve a moment to trial. Eleven of them were convicted, but that took a long time
The case took a year and a half from indictment until the point when trial began and then the trial itself stretched on for six months as district attorney,
Well has also used georgia's weaker statute to go after
wrapper jeffrey Williams and his record label why
so which will assess all
is charged has been operating as criminal gang twice
Eight defendants were charged under georgia's rico statute. In that case, several them have entered into play deals, but there are eight defenders.
who are still scheduled to be tried. The try all and in that case actually started.
this pass january, but we still haven't, finished, jury, selection and act.
is, when you introduce this, many different
Hence, in this many legal issues, it can complicate things but before trial and during trial, yeah
I have to admit that this Donald trump case is the first time I've seen georgia's rico laws in the news. I've been following the wise l case, and I can tell you I did not have young thug and donald trump facing similar charges on my twenty twenty three bingo pard. What does willis affinity for rico charges tell us
I think she's comfortable with the statute and she's comfortable with big cases involving lots of defendants. She doesnt seem afraid of these cases.
And she seems very comfortable web- try
to address the complexities in a rico case and you
in the law, too.
Allow her to present a panoramic picture in court, and also
law to sweep in lots of people with
I hope that some of them will decide to plead guilty and cooperate with the government yeah. I'm I'm glad you brought up the Y s l case and how long it's taken so trump is booked and busy. This next year between all the court cases and his presidential campaign, the ga da wants to start that
while in march and the d o j once its trial in january trumps, lawyers have said that to go through all the terabytes of documents that they need to for the federal case that they're gonna need a twenty twenty six
day- and you know that sounds like a long time, but when you just think of the sheer volume of you no documents and discovery, it does seem reasonable. I mean what should we expect as far as timelines?
The time line is, is the whole battle here were used to thinking of the battle in a criminal case
being what happens at trial, but in these cases
The real battle is whether theirs
Try all at all, sometimes criminal defined
and will say. I look forward to vindicating myself in cork. That's not anything you every year from donald trump because from his perspective, any criminal trial in which he's a defendant.
Is a disaster set aside for a moment the possibility that he'll be convicted and sentenced to prison, which I think is a real possibility in all these cases? The
The fact of a trial is a disaster for him. It's a disaster because it takes them off the campaign trail and it's a disaster, because it's completely inconsistent with his whole method of operating his strategy is to act. The
man to be the tough guy, the guy who's in charge, and he likes to talk in settings where nobody contradicts him.
Nobody tells him what he supposed to talk about. Nobody challenges him, that's not working.
Happen in a trial in a trial that is,
she is run by the judge. Who applies
of evidence and
the relevance. The discussion proceeds at trial through proof that has to be introduced in court and trump for the most part, will be sitting in cork. Listening to other people
talk about him, so that this is, as far as can be imagined from the
setting that he delights to be
and which is when he's on some stage in front of an adoring crowd. So his whole strategy in the weeks and months to come will be to stay out of court not to have a trial and
The question is: how successful will he be in that endeavour? I think some of these kids
is likely to be able to move faster than others the why
in dc prosecution of tromp, maybe
the one that is most likely to be
he tried soon, because it is stripped down case
It has only one defendant, its narrowly focused on donald trump and its true trumps lawyers.
have suggested that the volume of documents in this case means that the trial should be scheduled until twenty twenty sex, but
that the judge is gonna, buy that and I think, from
Lawyers know that the judge isn't going to buy that one more quick break and will jump into some of the unknowns of this rico case and the complicated legal landscape trump is facing fox created. This is advertiser content brought to you by until we really only seen the tip of the iceberg on what's possible, where they,
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Ok, David,
There are a lot of what s right now and that's because this is a gigantic case with some very
serious and some very obvious implications, but before
You get into what that guilty verdict could mean. I want to talk about logistics. Are we going to do
the this trial happen during the primary, or are things gonna get shuffled around?
I will be surprised if this case can go to trial, asked
Finally, as the dossier says that she wants to go to trial, she said that she would like to see a trial date within six months, but I think with nineteen defendants,
how does a real stretch in that?
An case that fanny was
cried under georgia's weaker statue. They took a year and a half to get the trial after indictment
that's, why I sell case is still edge.
Ray selection and watched.
In january, and neither of them
cases have some of the additional complexities that this case has neither those cases. For example,
bob organ involve efforts to remove the case to federal court which
case does involve mark meadows. One of trumps co. Defendants in the latter case has already said that he wants his case moved to a federal court. Other defenders, including tromp, may joining that request.
That's yet another layer of complication and then, of course, we have the complication that the defendants in this case, including trump, have legal complications elsewhere per day
charlie tromp, whose facing three other criminal indictments and
sure, that's part of trumps lawyer strategies.
Will be to try to use each of these cases against the other two
try to use the new york florida
in case to slow down
georgia case and to try to use the georgia florida new york case to slow down.
washington d c case. So I think, each of these cases
This involves its own challenges by particular
we with nineteen defendants and the range of legal issues that the georgia case raises a trial,
six months from now. Strikes me as ambitious. I'm glad that you mentioned the mark meadows request, because to me that request
The reason behind it seems very obvious, you know if it's federal
and then you know one of your coat offence becomes president, you probably there's a potential
pardon error. You know you could be more hopeful towards that, but I kind of I kind of want to talk out more.
of that tease out more of that, not just the results. But what would have been to this case if its moved from georgia to a federal case? What would happen so? I dont think its clear
that it would mean that a conviction would be subject. Presidential pardon, I think you're probably would not be subject to presidential pardon, even if it's a move to federal yeah, because I'm, if its moved her the federal court, it's still a trial
or state crime. The only thing that changes is the court room and the procedural rules that attached to the trial. So if the case gets moved
the federal court, the federal rules of criminal procedure get applied. The federal
We have evidence, get applied and the jury is drawn from
the area that is covered by the federal court, which
be larger than fulton county, so one possible advantage for
defender, like meadows in moving the case to federal court. Is that jury, poor change and you might get a more favourable jury pool.
Another possible advantages that his lawyers may feel that a federal court is a friendly or venue for them because they
are more familiar with federal procedures. Member state prosecutor's will be. I'm gonna be interested to see whether trump joins in this request, because
think it has advantages and disadvantages for trump for tromp, as for matters
it may mean a more favourable jury pool by it
I also mean that once the case gets moved, it can move along faster rather than more slowly because federal courts in june
ro, more used to large complicated cases, and it's not clear that trump would be better off with his case in federal court nominal ass. If I had to bat
I would bet that his lawyers will join in the request.
such is. That is yet another thing that could slow things down, at least in the in the near term. Every edition
A legal issue, I think, is good from trump's perspective, because it creates more things that have to be argued about and what trump wants mokes. What his side wants more most are things that we have to argue about in court, where tromp doesn't
to be sitting in court as a defendant. So legal issues are perfect in this regard because he he doesn't have to be in the courtroom
you can let the lawyers do get out. I think the jury. Poor thing is so interesting because
You know fulton county is bright blue, like if its atlanta
and then you know I was listening to our colleagues over at today- explained they did a wonderful apples,
when the news initially broke in
Lord kind of in general has trump fatigue met.
A little bit over it. Even even the report.
tens? When you look at his relationship with the governor like they, they are right
to move on yeah, it's hard to know how that would play out in a criminal case body.
It might well, meaning that the larger jury pool when you wind up here
tromp or any other defendants, because there are lots of republicans in
georgia, who seeing fed up and done where the effort
to overturn their election results in
not all in their state governance. So what would the possibility of moving this
from you know, fulton county to federal court mean that the mandatory
in time. Changes like what does that mean? As far as sentencing do we know it doesn't change
in terms of sentencing, because it would mean that the procedural rules, the rules that about how the court operates, would be the federal rules and not the state rules, but the substantive law that gets apply that the criminal prohibitions that sentencing provisions. Those would all be.
Georgia law, which I know sounds odd. You would think well, if it's all georgia law, why would you be
in it to federal court and it might not moved to federal court precisely because job,
only cases involving stay crimes are handled in state courts. What complicate things here is that there's a statue of federal statute that says criminal defendants have our
Tat move their trial from state court to federal court if they have a plausible defence
centres around their federal responsibility and that's it that's what medicines metal says. Look my defence and he says it's a good one is that I was just.
pursuing my duties and doing my job as the present chief of staff and that's my defence, and because it might events and because it is at least a plausible defence. The statute says we can move this trial. The federal court because, as a big fat
oh issue involved that has to do with the supremacy of federal law to state law and that's what the federal district court is going to have
decide whether there
really is a plausible defence here
that arises from the federal position that matter
had at the time when a trump joins in the request, the issue,
the same with regard to tromp. Would the federal court would still be
in georgia, or would it be like somewhere else it would probably be
georgia, I mean it. You could conceivably move the trial out of the state by
that's generally not done, and I doubt it would be done here so the trial would be held in georgia. It would be in
federal court, though in georgia, and not an estate court. So we ve already established that this is one of two rico cases out of georgia that I have had my eye on. The other is the way I sell case and we ve seen in that case peep
Take plea deals. Are we going to see the same
I agree in this other case, like our people, gotta start sing,
lange birdies like white: when are we about? Does he take place? I thank you all
completely deals with nineteen defendants? The odds that all of them will decide to go to trial is
love and that hasn't happened in other cases.
where will us has charge lots of defendants, it's just the law of numbers that when you have this many people
bob is unlikely that they will all decide.
they want, throwing their lot with the lead defendant in the case.
Particularly when, even if trump wins the election, he won't be in a position to pardon any of them before. I let you go, I'm really curious about your thoughts on this case in the grand scheme of things like what is this telling us about our judicial system and our politics, and you know, there's the state of our democracy right now, yeah. Well, the jury is still out. You could say
because I think donald trump is putting american democracy to a task in all kinds of ways, one of the way
She's putting it to the test is by pressing to see whether our legal system can deal with the kinds
the blatant violations of the rule of law
Now that donald trump has been engaging
for years and we ve never had a president who
try to throw out the results,
the election in which he was voted out of office,
by gaming, the electoral college, by putting together fake groups of electors,
by pressuring the vice president of violate his oath and pressuring a state secretary of state to violate his oath. So
it's not clear whether our legal system and our democracy are
to these challenges. I think the indictments are good news in the sense that they suggest
Our system is at least help me enough to get these charges filed and to start moving them towards trial, but it remains to be seen,
whether the system will be strong enough to actually get
to trial. I think they will be by we'll have to say
david skal lansky. Thank you. So much for joining us on the weeds, adjective is a lot of fun.
before we go. I wanted a circle back to that conversation we had earlier with andrew, because none of this,
happening in a vacuum. I asked him what this could mean for the twenty twenty four presidential race. There's nothing stopping.
trump from being a presidential candidate he's going to be on the ballot.
the republican nomination and voters pick him here,
get that nomination and then he'll be on the
It in the fall of twenty twenty four likely running and running against Joe Biden, and you know, there's a
it shouldn't of how long these trials will take. Some of them have dates that events
we don't know with those states will move, but it is possible he could
found guilty or even sentenced to prison before the twenty twenty four election by, even if that happens, you know
there's, no automatic, like magical legal track that just knocked him out of contention for the presidency has toby on the ballot and it will still be up to the voters
What I mean is it is hard to gave out exactly how they would play out because it's pretty unprecedented situation, but I think most people's assumption at this point is that you know if he went
the election he's gonna be the next president.
The nineteen co defendants have until noon. On friday august twenty fifth to surrender,
themselves to the rice street jail unfold and count me. Donald trump is expected to turn himself in four booking on thursday to stay on top,
this story and the rest of the news had to vocs dot com. That's all for us today. Thank you to Andrew pro cop and David's skal lansky for joint me.
Our producers to feel alone, erika long engineered. This episode, Kalen pansy move, fact checked it.
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Transcript generated on 2023-12-18.