This week on the verge asked, we talk about the playdate, the new little handheld thing. We get deep in the wall with Russell brand. Him talk about the new macbook in the new macbook keyboards and a lot about the T. Mobile, sprint merger. That's the verge, has come up now: hey, I'm ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of mint, unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. It mint mobile dot com, slash switch new activation and upfront payment for three month plan required taxes and fees. Extra additional restrictions apply cement, mobile dot com for full terms. support for the show comes from shop of eye to run a successful on my business. All you need is an idea and shop if I can take care of the rest shop, if I is a commerce platform to help run your business and their flexible templates and powerful tools make building and managing

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sure I'm a friend joke by coming up with all sorts of synonyms for enemy, and I'm just done with that. I'm here in neutral Russell Brandon is joining us today, high, so Russell we're gonna talk a lot about. While I yeah what away I was in the video. I was very careful to say quite away and really hit the and people really appreciate it. We had comments that were specifically like to thank you for hitting the age for doing it. Well, yeah waterway wallet quality sets its the news of the week. We gotta talk of the team. Murderer. We gotta. I thought these these macbooks. I just want to start with something fun yeah. I want to start with the playdate. Do you know what the play date is yeah? It looks really cool data. Do you want to you want to go through it? I know you have you have a lot of emotions about the planet you want. You want to walk people through what it is. So there's that there's this old school been around forever software company.

panic and a while ago there like. Well, we know make an maggots is fine, but we want to do other weird stuff, and so they became a video game publisher. They published fire watch and an upcoming game, which I have tried, called untitled goose game, and it is amazing you basically like walk a goose around and troll people and like break stuff with the goose it's the best thing that sounds erect yes, but now there there they decided there making hardware, and so it's this cute little yellow thing with a. I guess, apparently a high resolution, black or white screen. You know a couple of buttons its but play video games. It's got a crank on the side, a literal crank and the crank is like another controller. So, instead of like having you know, like you know, shoulder buttons or like a joystick, instead of just two

de pad, they have a crank and you play games with the crank. Certainly crank isn't like, like a battery power situation, you're not like winding up to play it. It's powered by usb, see yes, like those bob, it machines except a hundred ranking, so they announced this week and I got to say the the feelings at meal references. This thing made a gigantic splash because there's like like there's a corner of the internet of, like you know, like the really cool kids and all the really cool kids were connected to the software company in some way, because they ve been making mac apps for ever and they're genuinely like good, interesting people that are run an indie company, and so I am very excited for the playdate. I think it's amazing hardware think it looks cool where it was before he had to know that I just wanted to more facts about the planet. One. It's being by teenage engineering, yes, which is rad, and everything

if the company makes us great yup, two hundred and forty nine dollars when it comes out later. So that's all cool. Second, the business model for the games is super neat. Where one comes at, you get twelve. When you buy it, you get twelve games that they unlock on mondays every week. It had like outsized lacz like it was like. It was the only thing I saw on like my version of the internet for like an entire day, so good job, but also like man. Maybe maybe this isn't going to change planet. Let me just read to you at a sentence. Ok, story is about played eight, the most amazing and exciting product announcement for me, since the original iphone that our friend John grover, who is now prone to hyperbole how about estonia prone to competing products to the iphone the single most successful product of all time, that is literally restructured society, its fact yet

yeah? This is a gamble with the five points, clear mac I feel like group, These may be better steeper leadership, just an incredible set and I feel like there's a bet. It's like you know, he's like beings started hitting apple really hard hit Clearly, like ice lost, the faith but he's argue like one of those guys who like gets out of the army and becomes like the culture all like, hey, join our call. Maybe this is what I see what you're saying. Maybe this is legally sound like become like an android van boy, yeah exactly so. He needs you think he's an online, a windows pc. Here's how I feel at the played it you know, you discover a band, maybe like ie like thought you what really deep spot a fire southern are you in back in the day, you went to a record store and you like, oh my god, this ban is amazing. I have to tell everybody about it. I've discovered this amazing indy, bad Everyone's like I had a third, they ve been around flick, tired out. We know, then that's how I feel the players when I first saw it,

this is amazing- and I look at the arose like this is amazing- was like the broken social seen handheld gaming? That's, u arsenal burn. I will. I will say that there is something I think something about the innate appeal to two to people like myself. Is this this appeal to like with the moon, but now all we got a herd, forty characters. You know like that. The same innovation and whimsie that you can bring the app development, you can apparently bring new hardware development if you take three years to development in conjunction with teenage engineering you can get their yeah, you can get there here is why I'm excited about wine. It is, in fact a new its. It seems like a complete product right. Yes, it's finished so few things are complete.

at all anymore, for example, would you say that android is finished now introduced to kettles? It's like wholly incomplete? You can buy android phones and they're like yep. This isn't finished yet. Google shipped the pixel three with a whole chip in it that didn't do anything for nothing has finished. This thing appears to be finished like it. They it. They built a customer ass, its article we're linux kernel, but customers their own little screen this own interface idea with the crank there novel business model are going to play these little games for a week at a time then get a new one on Monday and also that novel business model in the games industry isn't like a loot box, scam, it's just a new business model, which is nice and then, on top of all of that, it's focused, it doesn't have a twitter klein on it. There's no potential for this thing to destroy

democracy we shall run video game, which I ask some questions about. Many the things that we discuss in the shower. Like that's great, I love it ass. A new way to watch tv. Thirty percent and it will destroy democracy no way. I'm soup into this I want want immediately is what I'm saying I get the love. You remember the peak from two thousand and eight. Yes, the twitter, the twitter peek. It was a bespoke single purpose, gadget it had a key. The black and white screen, and that was it. It was great. It was like a. It was like a to a pager for twitter, but it wasn't just for twitter. The twitter like got at it, but the second version was actually called the twitter peak. It was. It was right before phones. I almost bought one in a fit of peak now restless, afraid

as well as it may. I forgot about this, but I love it so much. If only I had a crank and minutes correct, there needs to be more weird hardware in the world and excited about this. I just think this the most exciting brought a since your life is incredible. Incredible sense, tat I was the fun we ve got all the fun we're gonna have today I want to start with fun now, let's move under the current geopolitical situation. Russell just go ahead and in thirty seconds or so tell us one of the following okay, so I there's like much like the m c. U, I think it's useful to divide it into phases, yeah, so I would say one of the huawei stuff which has been going on for a while before you start the the news that we're yeah that's phase two but then there are some news, which is: why always been in a lot of trouble. This week it's been the biggest set of headlines on our sight, yet its disastrous

the biggest rather android licence yeah. Last week there was sort of this week. A series of things that the government, it there's an executive order. That said the commerce list that that the department of commerce could like place. Restrictions on various you know come Is that sound like huawei, and they we weren't, really sure how they were going to do that and then, at the end of the week, the department of commerce sort of added huawei to the entities list and people were sort of like okay. We don't know how exactly how companies are going to interpret this and then, over the weekend sunday, Google was like ok, we had our lawyers. Look at this. This means we can't do business with waterway. So we're gonna not do business of how anymore trains we're not gonna licence andred through them and we're just sort of cutting ties, and then we ve seen you know it at first. It was like, is google just being weird? aggressive and was like no absolute every american company that quality works with like their laws.

It was all agree like this means you have to cut ties, maybe, like the department of commerce, will back down at some point or maybe you will be granted lessons at some point, the future, but as of now like do not answer their phone calls, and so that's basically, what's happened, unlike its genuinely uncle one of the one of the things we ran on the site. The camera did a great job on was literally, can they keep making phones? If they don't? Have? U s parts which I think the answer to his? Yes, but again it A phone is not the review headline harder to making a desert land, but like just the question of whether they can keep doing the things that they ve been. Do it like? Okay, so they don't. They ve been developing. This plan, be operating system, which is the sort of all are native to Google supported android way before we're going to go all we're going to spend a lot on this. Why did the commerce department put them on the entity list? Also, why is it called the entity

Entity just means a thing that exists. I love that it is a call to be entity you're like a forbidden entity liking like you, we ve got our eye on it, so it literally sounds like their ghostbusters put sitting on other people, and some of them are companies lying learning, so it's none of them are spooky. Let's not get too specific about what the loans on this liturgy. Language really looks like generic word for thing that exists that they could come up with. It always makes me think of like while you know you you detect The ships sensors are picking something up like an entity out there So why did the loch ness monster? Why does any happened, trivia calls out Russell, that's my stick in the show. What do you know who we're ok separately from this? Yes, people have a lot of problems with wallet. There are a lot of concerns about waterway and it is tempting to draw a line between those concerns and what has recently happened right. So the concern

basically are they make network equipment like the companies that make network equipment are basically nokia which basin, finland, ericsson, which is based in Sweden. Always that's based in china ingenerable, it's a free country like if your version, in your building out five g infrastructure you can buy from whoever makes the best deal, and sometimes that's waterway, and but but I mean, I think, folks like At the end I say and various intelligence agencies are like, maybe not by the chinese one you like just as a favor to me and then they sort of the became a broader and broader thing in there were more restrictions and maybe this is building for a while way. That's me, that's been true, even under a bomb, and it was also like it was like maybe dont by the chinese one until I prefer it. If you didn't like are you really shouldn t like? Oh my god doubt without any like clear, like here's, the thing that we

that is gonna scare, the hell are you like? It's never like. We found this thing in the hallway hardware and that's why you shouldn't do it like it never got to that level. It's just that, like this thing is possible and there's nothing you can do that will make. It will make it worth it too, this level of risk, and so just structurally. This is a bad idea which is kind of a job, rag and I don't love, but I do think like fundamentally, you know that notably show the essay doing a lot of stuff like this internally, not like on: u s, hardware that use excellently but light it is targeting. The network infrastructure is like a classic surveillance. espionage thing to do so. It doesn't make sense, yeah, ok, so there's there and then, as things

escalated, and this is more under trump. There's a lot of specific stuff against Twa way that, like doesn't make much sense. So, like chinese companies tend to there's been alive trade secrets cases of like some goes to work for like monsanto and then suddenly they like get on a plane to china with the hot new corn seeds and then, like suddenly, you know those currency just being used in china by a different ip regime, and so we can really stop it. Like there's a lot of stories. Like that. A couple stories like that have been levelled against waterway. I don't find the indictment super convincing, like this specific trade secret case that has been publicly they ve been publicly charged with, is that they stole tapie, which is a phone testing robot me

by t mobile. That's literally just like a hand that son, I may I say how long a tap styrofoam break there. I'm gonna go ahead and see that doesn't that's not like an advantage, if I, as a t, mobile customer, I only I have received the benefit of that and I'm not worried about that technology falling into chinese hands europe, those that cause if there was cause that they could actually say out loud a why we're always on the entity list. A public court case would be something they could say right when a judge said you can't ship iphones anymore, because you're in a beef with qual comes something like there's a cause that you can point to a why you're not allowed to ship iphones, anymore, yeah and also like executive actions, while they tend to be like

It's a lower burden of proof, you're not like proving stuff. Usually, when president's do this sort of thing, they like want people to know why they did it so that people don't just think they're going nuts and like an end. So there often is this kind of pageantry of like will cure the here's. The evidence Like we first contacted, you know quite away at this time in their answers were not satisfactory, and then we ultimately decided that this thing was, and we just haven't gotten that, like at an that's, I think, to a large extent, probably just a bureaucratic failure that they got used to kind of you know trump, there's a lot of things. This way world just like sort of do something, and he knows it'll make people He doesn't care or just like that. There was someone internally and they just couldn't get it together. Make the case, but like the result, is if you're gonna try to connect the problem.

I'm so far away to like why this is necessary to do this. It's weird cause. It's like you're doing their work that they should have done already and, like me, they probably know stuff. That's not public cause. It's all national security concerns that I very much believe that their concerns about the way that our public, but like it's a little weird you gotta, say something well, so that the other piece of this Is so Russell just explained you know: what's got what do we actually know about quality and security concerns, but the other thing is going on with china. Overall is a gigantic trade war, and so it just so happens that at the exact moment that donald trump is trying to put the screws to china, he his administration puts waterway, are this entity list, and so the question of whited, while I get put on the list, no company gets to talk to them anymore like was it truly just security, or was it part of this trade war yeah and also so so we're leading up like there's been deasey. Tariffs are taken effect in june.

in theory, there are going to be more trade talks, they're trying to cut a quick trade deal. It looks bad if you say like hey this piece of technologies and national security risk like throw it out and burnt. We can't have it in: u s borders anymore, and then you go and cut a trade deal, and then you come back in your life. It came out with everything's fine like that. That is what I like it generally. I'm shooting, like you, can say, hey their bad, like we're, not gonna. Let you import them for tariff reasons, but, like you, don't want to cry wolf on like state espionage, things again, because you have this whole iraq war problem of like there is this evidence that plausibly cannot be made public and you need people to just trust you and they get. It may be really important at some point, the trust that you I've thought about it. It's a bad idea to a road that what you are saying it's there, it's like them see you with four phases.

oh yeah, wizardry widely through the forfeit I mean no. No, I only had two phases eyes are not actually that up on empty. This is like early were only to all tron but like the first phase was while way has network hardware problems, and it's like, all right, maybe I was a little bit more evidence like the interests and there's not a smoking gun but, like I think, the standard for let's not put this cell equipment in our kind free like in what is fundamentally a very like a perennial target for espionage. Let's, just like be a little more sort of tightly controlled about that. I am like fundamentally willing to cut them the benefit of the doubt on that. It's a very plausible case that there and we had Geoffrey starks in the rich house this week, who is a Democrat or for obama yeah, and he was saying we might need these rural carriers to rip out all their equipment and replace yeah. Well, unlike he's an fcc commissioner,

so, he's thinking about like the integrity of american networks and like the fcc, has a lot of leeway over that for this exact reason right. So that's a totally legitimate thing for an fcc commissioner think about. Unlike again it's you, don't really need the standard of evidence. It's not a judicial thing, because its risk collar yeah boy what's happening now is, and this is the the wildest part of it to me. So Google was folly. Phones are like a thing in america, you so when we're talking about ten, while we make and sell the phones, we're not saying, can they make an seldom in america were saying? Can they make an seldom in europe in india and china so like? What is the benefit? of stopping micron from selling flash memory to this fund that will be like, even if they are just rules of the chinese state. What is the now

national security benefit of us, keeping that flash memory out of this phone like that. That is then going to be sold within China, so that and that I genuinely Joe no. The concern is also okay, so let's see it's not a national security thing. It's just that we always bad and they ve done bad things to us and we're gonna do bad things to them. Gee. I mean I'm saying it in like a silly way, but that is sometimes how it works. Like nation states interacting. Sometimes it gets dumb like ok, but that case isn't specific to wow, like their other companies that have also been implicated in trade secret stuff. There are other companies that are also like uncomfortable, close with chinese intelligence. So we ve seen people making moves around DJ. I it's like. Ok, these are they just

we decided this to zt he already. Well, I mean d e. It's like alright, like that. You sort of have the same network thing but like he thinks, may cut Zt a deal yeah at the end of it all. That was the thing so commerce I mean they can have, and this is more akin to like what happens when you interact with it

foreigners justice, where it's just like alright, like we want to. Let you back in you're out for seven years, we're going to do these tests. You have to pay this fine, but there's like this path towards you being allowed back into the game again that has not happened. It would be cool if, when they did this, they said we're doing this preemptively. But we want to cut a deal because again, then we would know, while this was happening and what they were talking about. Yeah we Jones and I'm worried that if it's kind of a screwy thing they did, they might do it to another company, maybe they're doing all of this to psych china out which doesn't seem like a great plan. So I just don't think wall. Is that scared of this moment right here?

and I Russell has heard me- say this many times like to me. This is like step one along like a four step path to the dissolution of the entire, like current world economic order. This is where we get into the mc, because now we have four stage yeah we'll just like go with me on this, like I'm kidding. The reason dual went first is because Andrew does make them any money right that that was reason they like first- the gate wore away. Well, they won't mainly what first, because they were the first one. The government put the screws too, because I figured that was like the fastest way to make an impact on while way, because their already very close to being the number one undisputed number one phone company in the world, their trading places with samson all the time, but also like any google's making money. When you do a google search off the hallway, but you need to google searches in china is an area in europe I'll sure sure, but google like doesn't transact for android today.

Making announced to shareholders that can make in an announcement that can put out a press release. We withdrawn the andrade licence for play services from walla They don't get to use it anymore and there's no there's no corresponding like loss of revenue, but right, like it's out material impact on Google's bottom line, because phones will still be in the world. Do a google search as well like that's the red rage, if you're micron with your micronesia, were cutting off one of our biggest customers when you ve gotta, do all the work. If you're cocom we're cutting off our biggest customers, intel were cutting off and our biggest customers you impact is your bottom line. You're like not make those sales anymore, really bizarre company? That has not said anything. It is microsoft, yeah

We're cells windows to what we want. We makes great windows laptops, they ve pulled the wall, we laptops off the store, but they have just like for a week, no commented us on whether they're gonna yank the windows licence from wall, which is so you're saying they have to like line up their disclosures to their shareholders, so they they'll get sued by the ssc right? They have to leave her get em. They have different, disclosed material information about their financial performance like the sitting. So then there's room I shall always had this like plan b, which is where we make our own up, we're going to make our own competitor android we're gonna, make our own competitor to windows. There's rumours, they've been stockpiling parts for three months or for a year they have built up a three month stockpile of parts which could have also change the financial results of all these companies are buying reports than they need is a disaster in the making for a huge number of companies. Google, since his play, and I get in trouble, unlike europe, sues them and you ve, chrome and search in the place or

That's a licence on top of the andred open source licence right It's our inner is open source and we all know that chinese companies take the open source android. They builder. well version of it they sell in china. The chinese market is very different than here, because there's no play store or whatever, because a ghouls not allowed to operate there, but like open source, is still a contract like the whole way open source works. Is that you take the code for me and you agree to my contractual license terms. The I will contribute your code back, that you won't like go and make it proprietary. So if I take android and make my own version of it and say now, it's proprietary, Google can sue me for breaching the contract right, that's the that's like the mechanism by which open source says open yet so they can't just take a sp and make their own version of it is super unclear, like this breaks, a fundamental part of open source

you have. No one has ever really thought about what happens if the code you're giving away In the license under which that code says open is preempted by like federal national security concerns, so you leave your place where huawei might do something about that. Let me throw one more log on that fire of intellectual property problems that they're running into an arm, which is a british company, has decided well, there's enough american technology in the way that we know we distribute our processor designs it. We also cannot do business away, and so there are two kinds of processors that enter runs on until a few of them and armed ships, and now why Armand saint? We can't talk to hallway, which is like the thing that every everything that's

I like windows laptop? Basically, it's an arm right, so, okay see now you've got arm, saying: okay, we have to. We can't do business with anymore. We have withdraw your license toward designs. What does that mean right like they already have the designs they make the, Who's gonna stop them at all, as it is the choice, These state authorities must show the way office imbue like her. You are this car the british company and because of american trade action, that contract was withdrawn, our arresting you for ip infringement like that's, definitely not happening. These are all just pieces of paper and so you end up at this place where, like the fundamental contractual nature of a west in open source, like behind every contract, is like a gun right right that's the go on there. If I make you a promising, I breach,

you can sue me and like the government makes me like perform. That's how that works. So if you take all that away like a legal fiction, you might say, etc. Legal fisher, just the reality of how we enforce promises, because right now that these are collect if action problems. So if you take away the ready to enforce the andrea opensource licence you take away, the ability to force the arm licence and while we just makes the stuff anyway and uses the code anyway at some point, china's like? Why are we in the world trade organization which is like we're in it, because we read to have these ip laws or we have these ip laws we're in this organisation and I were not respected, and anyway I mean I wouldn't be the first time china had like sort of played to the list, On my ipod, nano study are our plaintive already showers. Pushing way over an extra we're out right in medicine.

It may make so much of the stuff anyway, they like revoking the piece of paper that says it's ok is, like almost meaningless in this situation, but give you always, engineers are still just working on the arm ships by taking away the piece of paper doesn't like cut your key code, access to the building site like this, it's item at its super, dangerous, because europe, removing the authority that makes the contracts effective, so tat Warren had this great peace this morning about you know, okay, so so there you get alternate components you get this alternate. You know that the armed ships, it means they're, going to like fork from the new stuff, that arm is developing. So ok, they're headed off in this other track and his, point, was just laying out all right, you're, making phones without android you're, making laptops without windows. This is a hard road like you can do it, but.

it's much harder to succeed as the huawei sized brand that you were before this week. If that is the path right, Doug absolutely agree: just think an event hobson who who was a microsoft and play before he was a by usage. China was one of the top microsoft markets in the world. but by legal usage. We have the size of argentina like there's ran, bit in mass of piracy in this country. It an inch one this country to that country. We just sit there. ours is good and there is bad and unjust if you, if you make these moves, you start withdrawing these pieces of paper. I suddenly the piece of paper no mean anything anymore. I did want to make a point of clarification.

are too like primary open source licences. Lennox is a sort of viral licence. If you use linux, you have to keep it open source apple, which brought the unix, which is under that a different licence. That, I think, is the best deal licence did not open source its its modified unix colonel for a long time, so that there is that slight differentiation- again, android is- is based on lennox. So therefore it has that more viral andrea is mostly licence on of the apache to point a licence. Does this thing bet there's lots of licences but its built on lennox, which is which is gps sure, but at the end of it,. J, the reason open source works. The mechanism of that via our activity is a if you sign up to a contract that makes it viral its active in opensource, is a hack. It is that relies on the existence of extremely strong copyright protection right so because

I wrote the code and I invested with, like total copyright protection by the government, I can write a contract that makes you have to do stuff You use it. So if you don't have really strong copyright law, if you don't really sound contract law, open source fails. So then you'd go to a place like china, which does not have tremendously strong copyright law. The viral licenses fail, like you, know, public public domain, open source or mit- that, like just hey, don't sue me if this breaks otherwise do whatever you want, but still a contract that the mechanism. This is the thing we don't think about it. We take it for granted because we assume the government exists right and that we have some recourse if something bad happens, but all this stuff like it's on public servers and it says, like license. Synergy, p, L or like you'll, get wikipedia and like the wikimedia license licence, and, like all of that is educated like there's a functional government that will enforce these contracts rights. This is all and I'm to get angry tweets from the efta folks about this, but this is

so why you would want to bind on aligned countries in the regions into some sort of trends, fact. Pardon you wanna leverage over the way, so that the point of being tp was like at the time when we didn't like copyright hypothetically. This was where teepee was like this massive one of these weird trade deals wherever it's just seen a room in brazil somewhere. No one has any idea what's happening and it's like the gloss on at the time, which I very much was convinced by was this. Is the? U s exporting it's bad copyright provisions to the rest of the world, so they can't, you know, have a mickey mouse cartoon in brazil because the our role would collapse, but like now you get it and so trump one of the first things he did was back out of it as like, an anti globalists, a measure which was like one of the few

cookies, that I think the left got from the trap elections but then, like now, you look at and you're like. Okay, if we're looking at a fracturing of the global copyright system, which is kind of what we're talking about here yeah, then that's the kind of Then you'd want to have around just to make sure there's more people on our side who can't buy the weird off brand huawei phone that that's pirating, android. It seems like a very sensitive moment because if, if, if let's say there wasn't a ghost nation that we just haven't, heard about and and trump or whoever, whoever was like well, if, if you're not going to play ball, while were I take away all of your chips and all of your partner's every everybody. We have any influence on we're going to tell them. They can't work with you and if weiwei dies you know, then, apparently, that's that was an effective.

Dick, if, while way manages to make replacements for every single- u s, partner, that is no longer an effective negotiating tack technic with anyone in China yeah I mean that Israel is always the biggest any love and they also operate and managed economy like they will be able to like making for placements- and I heard they have friends in the treaties- anyhow. I would basically put this maximum complexity leg. Thinking about whether or not the entire underlined Foundation of open source is broken by what might be it a sum unrelated national security concern, our answer, Ours is a wild place to be, but that's kind of the level, whereas they can take android and make it proprietary, because Google's aren't allowed to do business with them and ultimately, as pie requires you to be in some sort of contractual relationship with Google, but they give all the code away.

I just like the lawyers on twitter, like their brains, are broken by this. Are you ready cause? I have an excellent quote about the future of walk away from the ceo fahrway. This was sent to me by while we represent its interview, he did with china. Estate media and they seize. On the metaphor of the the interviewer says, another media person took out a photo of a bullet ridden aircraft. I was also given the same photo. I heard that you like this photo very much and he said yes, I had this feeling that the aircraft was quite like our company, so our it goes. I saw our current situation is that we are repairing our quote aircraft during it's flight so that it can make its way back home while yet so just so, it's it's just and bullets, and, like you,

You shot up in a plane with just regular bullets and like plausibly, make it back, but it's not like a great situation also, if you came to the virgin you're like the virgin situation. Right now is that we're like a bullet ridden aircraft it's DR strong leadership, so ass, I want ass. We women this role. I would ask one question very, very directly: it's the one I say in the comments and our siam a certain comments in here youtube video chat rooms. Watched excellent. Has the government made any case it like? I read. These comments are like the government. This is all fake. we do worse stuff, there's backdoors an hp network equipment rising gotta building new worked at spies and everyone. Yet it is a fact two years ago, that boy york very possible for the: u s, government, to also be bad, because

I've been talking to the chinese gonna, be a bad one and imply that the? U S, government isn't bad the end that we should not all just rise up and tear down our oppressive errors. Speak involves lying there. Cribbed obey them. Ok here is here is the thing so like what you will get If I'm going to assume you meant cryptography and we're just going to move yeah? So the thing is what you get is like officials on background, saying they have concerns and leaking things to reporters. You get retired army officials, you get like military. Adjacent people saying this is a huge concern, and so I did this piece will come where we were just like tell us what the problem is and they're like. Well, I dunno what the exact problem is, but I can tell you: this situation of having a while way you know, equipment in our five.

Networks is unacceptable. What you really want is someone who works for the government to get in front of a podium and say here the problems with waterway. This is what we were looking at. This is why we did this here. Are the aim contravene? double prove that there are weapons of mass destruction, structure, yellow joe. We allocate iranian someone. You can, really trust telling you so big trust. Like look, I get that we're not gonna get proof you never know who to trust in this world. I just want someone to make the kids like this. There are reasons for why we did this, even if you don't agree, and that really has not happened, which I It is part of why the response to this has been so chaotic is like. I can impute move gives to them and assume what they were looking at might have been something like this, but I think that is to say something about it.

Yeah I've been on this show we like do our best to not give like google the benefit of the doubt I feel like. We cannot give the government the No it's early like yeah. This august case. I've heard a specifically about the five g thing is like look, even if the hardware is like pristine in perfect, there's no way to build five g infrastructure without requiring the company that made it to be able to issue software patches yet, and so, if we can issue a sophomore patched to the infrastructure, then they could potentially be influenced by the Chinese. Government to issue a software package that is somehow detrimental. Even the tiniest government could just hacking. You know if there's a pipeline to deploy software that Chinese governed can just sort of bread,

we can and not tell huawei and huawei will be. Like I mean we heard this a lot with prism stuff where Google was like. I had no idea the nsc was in there and like they really did have no idea. The nsl was in there. It's just sort of it's hard to really defend against that, and I think that's a legitimate thing, but that doesn't explain why we can't have an american flash memory chip in a european phone that was built by huawei

hmm. So I dunno, maybe there's a reason- maybe we're worried about them. Stealing the flash memory technology. That's cool, just say that for both both sides of this it feel very cypher punk, where one cypher punk ideal is the break from the. U s government's perspective, you want to be able to audit your hardware hardware like, ideally, I could make my own phone and I could source it from basically random manufacturers just to make sure that anybody who's trying to attack me directly has to do a lot more work to intercept all the different. You know random packages to install whatever spy stuff. So that's like pretty cypher punk the idea that you could potentially audit your supply chain and therefore be more provably safe. The other thing you should probably have in encryption, no matter what, because it's a you know the fact that someone could spy on you know it'd be bad if

I could just turn off our infrastructure and that something that end in encryption does not solve, but then being able to read your messages is something that, in the end, encryption could, theoretically sol yemen. Heroin turns on end and encryption. Eighteen t can insert adds a debts Isn't that worth the price I'm willing to pay. We will come to eighty. We have gone on way too long. Will I promise you? I miss you listeners and friends. We will transfer eighteen ts bullshit later in the show, we're going to have an ad or income backward talk about some macbook keyboards, hey, I'm ryan, reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation. We decided

Two deflate our prices due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of meant unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try: men, mobile dot com, slash, switch new activation and upright payment for three. My plan required taxes, and these extra additional restrictions apply seem at mobiles outcome for full terms. The support for this show comes from american. Express business. Running a business is no easy feet. American express business cards are here to help whether you are small business owner ready to expand into new markets, or your business is just taking off american express business cards

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dear yeah. Tell me about the secret new material. The macbooks remain of now of a god. Ok, so apple did something apple did something is like the the heart of our show. Yeah apple did something which our friend joker pointed out was really heartening for mac fans, and that is they put out a spec bump for the macbook pro apple, just randomly spec bumping one of their macs is a thing that they like didn't used to. Do they like stopped doing that for years and now they're just back in it doing it. So it's a very good sign, but they couldn't possibly spec bump the macbook pro without addressing the keyboard issue.

And so they did they. They got on calls with a you know, a bunch of reporters one by one by one and I've got to be one of those reporters and they said we're doing three things number one: the butterfly keyboard four year replacement program thing applies to all butterfly keyboards, even the thing we're releasing today, so that's great for two. We fixed our like mac stores or apple stores, so that repairs are way faster and I dunno how cause that repairs were ridiculously intensive. You gotta take the whole damn thing apart to get to the keyboard but chirp and then number three this

new macbook pro has still a third generation butterfly keyboard. However, it is built with quote new materials that make it less likely to have double key presses or missed key presses, and if you have a computer with the third generation butterfly keyboard, this is a generation with the silicon watch model to call it in it and you get it repaired. Then you will also get the keyboard with this quote: unquote: new material- I don't know what the new material is. I and everybody else who got this call asked. An apple is just straight up, not saying so. Here's my number one thing, it's new material, singular like they made. A new material yeah that this first reason, I just find that so funny. It's like I just keeping thinking about the the the the scene at the end in the middle of iron man, two where there are spoilers for iron man, two thy brainier boylike tony sarka to invent a new element, but they are like

didn't know what elements were their writing it. So it's just to try and a whole. What do they do that in the basement? Now I agree at this: the map of the world. It's a new labelling. It's like let looks jumbo size a speck of dust, you know, let's see, there's a brake on the ground right in the brick. Impeding my ability to put my through all the way on the ground as the bricks and the way you know of I make my shoe out of a new material yeah. Can I now step through the brick, This is a very interesting amazing thing to say about get aboard reliability. Here's what we know right now, we know that there is a very long red thread and run it post. That is scott relatively compelling evidence that maybe the problem isn't just the dust or the dust at all. It's actually some sort of metal fatigue and its possible that what they ve done is like

put better metal, and that is that less is more reliable in some way. We also know that I fix it has like ridiculous micron scales, and that means that they are trying to measure the density of whatever this new material is, and so they are actively working as a record this to tell us what the new material is. If you are fan of the upcoming hbo show in the previous books, his dark materials. This is very amazing because the like dost actually play significant locks up there called they started so anyway. I've just say apples as that when it suits them, will tell you that the back of the much is made of sapphire that the

casing, is made of seven thousand series of women this year, its eight thousand series aluminum that the the front crystal of the camera is made it like. They are happy to tell you what materials they are when it suits their marketing purposes, and they can get the quote in the story. when they're like our keyboards, have been broken for three generations of this product. This is our fixer like it's a new material in a which is like won't tell that. There's no information here. Yeah I mean they. They like they held a press conference for interrogate, That was a different. I yeah has a different guy, but there's like the obstinate lake. I don't even know man too sick, just say: there's something wrong and they they finally upon it, took him three years to do even say sorry, what you're gonna have to draw up as a butterfly to get an apology.

casey Johnson has been doing nothing but writing of her tears as she can't get apple to admit she exists. Yeah apple should definitely talk to casey Johnson, I'm just yes, she's an excellent reporter and she has been on the story. They should definitely talk to her. Do you think they fixed it up? That's my answer. It was a resolute already answered this question so that spectrum sir good right the slip ups are fine like they there there's more turbo that faster bade obey speed. Although the thing is they didn't significantly change the way that this thing handles thermals and a bunch of people, especially, you know, youtube creator is our already disappointed in this generation of max, because their thermal envelope meant that they couldn't you couldn't crank up the You know the processor speed when you need renders quickly is as much as you want

I feel, like this design didn't work for them. Like fundamentally, we've been, we've been they've, been cracking away at it for, however long and it just call it right- I mean it's it's one thing: if you're, comparing like the iphone two to a wall they fought for, but we live in a world where Lenovo has some some spirit captured of the thing had keyboard in you. Don't like real laptops exist that are a pleasure to type on. The thought was trying to say so I took a roundabout way. There is hardly know, always captured the spirit of the treaty. To hear its name is Steve. Yeah. It's spooky it's on the entity list. reboot you're right like Linda, was known for great keyboards. That's the thing. Apple used to be known for fantastic. I'm words, an ok downward I can't I just don't know what they're playing out with these

but why are they so committed to it? The rumor there's a sixteen inch macbook that will have a new keyboard design at some point in the in the future that will know maybe see, invites one out. We got em a hundred and eighty four Debbie Debbie DC, like they're they're gonna, stick to that they, if, if they no internally like this designed, is fundamentally flawed. The only question is how long are they going to run out the clock before they like release a new design and like how what's the cadence of the new design going to look like because the suitors there's a new laptop that has a different kind of keyboard. Everyone has got to say well done by the any. axe right now wait for the new one to come out. That has a new design like that is what's going to happen, and so apple needs to contend with that very real fact and so they're going to have to like try and release them all at once, they're going to have to just like hope that this fixed it and that it won't be a problem anymore. I don't know what they're gonna do. I think that's all

Be a true statement. Yeah yeah, I mean I'm just very hesitant to buy a new macbook pro. You might have heard the fan, and my two thousand and fifteen macbook pro with discrete gb. You several times that said. They also announced another fix your problem, that a lot of you that vlad had this, which is the flex gate problems. This is to me just more extremely strange apple messages, they call dieter punch say we were pearson, you max our new twenty nineteen macbook pro with made a supersecret material fix a keyboard by the way repair, tension already raw already in place for this brand new product yeah great. They did all that there's you know, At the same time, no one answered no previous know: nothin bayonets, repair, accession. The display issues that people are having on these machines, which has been called flex gate. I don't love gate name so, but whatever

vlad had this problem, it's the one where you get little pillars of light at the bottom of your display and people believe it's because there's a cable that is too short and gets cramped, so fixes larry make the cable longer They are outside to Sicily to very common problems, these machine, but then also quietly at a sort of like later On the day after we got there keyword feelings out there, like, oh, by the way, this too, and I suspect they could announce a display, problematic keyboard like what is a laptop. In view like both halves of this or broken we're taking measures to fix the let's be cleared, they have class leading touch pats. Its is and then they have a little crap. Your touch, the top of a team.

In case. You want to do some sliding or add. I honestly think it's great, like they're they're thinking about maxtor they're, updating them good at some point, they're already halfway hatchery looking at slowing sales cause it just a little too scary to buy right, and I wonder why it is the duty of all who, by a macbook air, know that their taking a risk on these keyboards did a macbook, arrogant, updated with this new material. Now nothing is being updated with new material. Even computers are currently have the third generation. I specifically asked so like once you're like you, so that what are you in turkey as we like the the next macbook air that comes off the line, be you this new material. We have known ass possible future products I see, I'm just saying tony stark did not start using the circle. Chest thing feel the triangle when he stuck with the alright yeah we're going to take another break, it's a zombie. I wish all of you.

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always called apply to tell you it's about. Well, you know, about called the jason of emotions. If you are not aware of these challenges literally the slowest emotion, jason is ok. When you have information and a computer right, we think of it in a ones and zeros right, but then it gets. You know you When you look at it in a different way? It's like a string or a number, you nord, it's an object or something, but we You want a sin that data over the wire fences. Let say you're amazon and you decide to make a wearable that monitors people's emotions right If you want to send that data over the wire, it's a fifty fifty chance, I mean you're gonna. U something new fancy like jeer, pc, but you're, probably gonna use the old trusty sidekick, serialization format, jason as I just

Bloomberg, has a story that amazon's working on some wearable I've been interested in this concept of effective computing for a long time like it, it's really cool to imagine computers that are paying attention to your emotion and can interact with that emotion like, for instance, like let's say you are starting to get angry. A computer could warn you before you act out and anger, something like that really cool ideas of that know. These are explored years ago and is cool that some company is thinking of doing it. The fact that its amazon, which sits kicks back in there seattle offices and listens to your private home alexa conversations is not exciting to me at all, but a got me thinking of what cyril nation format, unlike think just trying to think of that that data structure of

Emotion like is it sad and then like the value? Ten and ten is the most sad or do they use decimal numbers? You know it just just got me thinking, I'm going to suggest that we already have an answer to this question and it comes from an open source consort called unit code, sometimes you're feeling smiley sometimes you're feeling grimace, sometimes you're, feeling dancing woman knows you're feeling hoop yeah, not litter. because I be gross, if that, if that's true make sure you wash your hands, no eight. Did you see that caitlin story, kaitlyn tiffany, who hers was push button used to be british, poorer, snout the goods advance She had a a story this week online, Ads can now be targeted. Based on your emotions,

new york times will now allow advertisers to think they can my read their articles and predict what emotions you will feel than you can target the ads. This is the way caitlin says these are the emotions ranked in descending order. By how much I would want to be targeted based on this is this is really the list its willis submission to it all board amused indulgent, optimistic interested, adventurous, self, confident, inspired, informed, competitive, happy nostalgic and then turn fearful hateful hopeful sad in the mood to spend in feeling love. While you got a feel for the reporters, articles get tag as making readers board yeah really advertise for the board demographic against russia. Those new sea serpents. I think, for whatever reason,

readers wilder on this page will be feeling board yeah, I'm with I'm just I want everyone to just feel competitive when they read my This is why I got box haleran. It's it's hilarious is always alright that those in a fun that's. How do they do that fun children. There is yet more policy news. I'm glad Russell is here with us t mobile has been desperately trying to buy sprint yeah for a while. Now I just want to point out to preface this conversation that one of t, mobile's lobbying, strategies quest to buy sprint is suspend hundreds of thousands of dollars, trumps hotel in DC. That is true, which just makes just makes me sad. Maybe they're just going there, because it's the finest

Tell him the area tat just at another level of service. Does what I hear from the white house communications to the really like a wedge salads also all the government officials or their suggests easy bribing anyhow, they have been, I would say, rebuffed for awhile my quest to buy sprint, but the fcc actually not the fcc, a g pi chairman of the fcc yeah announced this week. He would be willing to support their merger because they had it read some conditions. The conditions importantly are not public and there's no order before it like the whole FC we have two. She hasn't voted pies just been like that. makes him promises, and I, like em, some willing to support it well

a sort of know a little bit so they're, going to deploy a five g network covering ninety seven percent of the EU s population within three years and ninety nine percent of arrogance within six years. This time span, notably coincides with the roll out of five g t mobile will not stop the march of time. Merger approved take laptops about to break. If you give me what I want, I will buy a new laptop and also be of the peace on the site by Karl beauteous amazing, on this, like in general, the fcc in particular, but also the government in general, is not great about like coverage maps yeah we're not like good at it. So actually,

king on this is gonna, be bad. If there were any mechanism for checking on any promises that people make before mergers anyway, which diffee yeah they play like, tend to not be great So, as I pointed out so that the deal that budget pie said was good, is t mobile and grant promised to build a five g network which, by the way the reason that they want to merge right gmos- I got a better company than sprint. Sprint owns better, so from an t mobile, so that the rationale for this merger is we'll just by sprint these. Why Ngos can just like hang out we'll use their spectrum and build a great five g network, but they'll also increase jobs. They'll employ more people because of the promises made to add your pi or will we laid off because that's what happens emerging doesn't matter. That's the case. The cases they are better spectrum, where better in executing we'll take a special,

Finally, our supplies and say: ok, they promised to build a five g network and they promised to cover this twenty people, and if they don't do that, then we escalating series of fines that we like devastating to the business where this I like the bargain in the deal so then you're like okay. Well, how will you how you make sure they're keeping their promises so Russell's pointing out it when the piece by Carl bowed, but there are no national like universally recognised coverage maps. we don't man, there's only one cover trap that everyone agrees on like the carriers should submit their own. And in the deal itself? As far as I can read, the mechanism enforcement is t mobile will submit report cards to the government saying how well it's done they had a call in mckenna was on the call, and I think they asked

What else will you do to make sure? And they said oh well t mobile will pay a third party to check to it. If you put all of this up making promises. To the government and all this enforcement all their side. Do you think, three years from now like t, mobile and spread as solo companies like subscribers to them would have better service than than in this thing in the future, where they're a combined company. If the, if you really believe the problem is sprint, is it as great special it bad management like there's one really easy way to fix that problem right. You just change the management of the company or or t mobile, buys their spectrum or t mobile, visor spectrum, and you don't destroy right. You don't like reduce the number of competitors in the market. If you are a disclosure, comcast is an investor in VOX media. of urge your comcast, even like cats,

sing about trying to get a move is another raised by spread congress like recently good at executing, I'm also by the so people have put this forward as, like all less nightmarish alternative means, you're, not reducing the number of players. I find it more nightmarish because I don't think like this is this like vertical integration right like oh, wouldn't it be great if comcast is just another like or go, ninety shenanigans have, but we live in a world of go. Ninety should and could ask exactly that's it give it never, like if you're disney and you're looking at eighteen t read my baby bought like this is like my favorite of the crazy nightmare scenario. there's just many other scenarios by which you maintain the number of competitors vying for consumer dollars, as opposed to

reducing that number, which has known bad outcomes, should simply be nice to have a carrier with more spectre. Well sure there are two of them their avert their due. Finally, we know we know at so so the fact that t mobile and sprang can't merge seems to push me into the arms of eighteen indian rise. If I walk quality or you do something with sprint spectrum that isn't taking it out of the equation. mobile, successful company people like t mobile, they like this, terrorists are getting from it. They they like that. It is a disruptor. They, like the n carrier attitude, at all of that exists because the eighteenth he was prevented from buying it right. So what if you just do it again like? That is an outcome that is known and it's not like capital won't flow to these markets, because competition is scarce right. There is churn in the system. There there's a proven way to be a disruptor. It just seems like sprint failed, and now they just like when to quit

but that's I'd crap! You hate her front of things. I just think that the promise is being made in this. Agreement are a great, but there are the promises that were already made. It is the thing they said there are you and that's ridiculous call them promises? Second, the mechanism of enforcement is like litter, a t mobile grading, its own test, which is ridiculous. Am I by the time the bill comes? Do I sincerely doubt many members of this current fcc will even be there anymore right, like that's just the nature of the game so like who cares?

But next to all this is the department of justice. So this is the really funny thing which seems like they're not sold by any of this, while so historically and craig me, if I'm wrong here, but I remember hearing that, like anythin anytime, there's one mergers, these mergers, there's these two tests and the fcc test was always the harder one to clear, because the fcc c test was just is this of benefit to consumers, whereas the department of justice? It'd be like: is this: creating a monopoly such that, like the resulting company, is going to be so scary that we have to intervene with the force of law and break it up, and so No it's easy you be like. Oh, this is mostly fine, but it does seem like slowly threes fewer than four. So maybe no and now it's been flipped because we have a area business friendly, as I think, the polite term for it at sea chairman and the anti trust sort of divine

vision of the g o J has been getting along salty, like it's getting its gang spicy over their spicy aunt salty, it's like that. Rita hopes of justice, absolutely when I think has put under difficult. If I think of a spicy, not Should the reader do what remains The nutritional value remains to be seen, but so it's a little weird because we know that there was a recommendation with in the d o j written sort of to stop the merger and then some reporters, hold of that, but also the d o J has not officially made it's decision, and so it seems like it seemed like this political limbo of everyone's waiting for that. But but definitely you know folks are hyped for the d o J to make a move Yeah, I just what is it doesn't seem like they are that they know what they want right like the there? Ports are DC airlines

The agency has said we don't recommend it, but they haven't convince the commission, like the dehydration up in a fight, it's almost like they dont have skin in the game, because these are not their businesses and it's not theirs. design at that means they. I honestly don't know that means it is theirs to decide it's there. It's not. There were busy. says to buy and sell, but they're the ones who approve such buying and selling, but why? What do you mean because collected action problems exist in society? In wireless spectrum, in particular, is a scarce resource and property is only of value. In the context of the state rustle of that area. We did earlier say that behind every kind and so battalion, likely jaded, where this year, we like that That's the argument against, like everything right

Let me just give you like a really dumb example bright. You paul you and I are neighbours. game. We share. We share a property line that you do not actually does not. Act yes, we are very far away to be treated like a spiritual, erect. We're neighbors bill, I kind of ethically you and I are neighbours and I just did to walk over and build a shed in your yard right. We ve greed in some way that, like that properties, Where's in this property is mine. How do you get the shed off of your yard? I don't get it. What? How did you get into my yard, swap over water and put it there sousa gear invading mice, my market, yes, yes, that is true. I have like violet did your proper. Are you a stealer assure yes, How do you do you guys do? How do you stop this problem? I attack you right. So I think we have done our society is right. We

generally removed the ability for people to just straight up attack each other and we ve, given that ability to this right here, we have two willing participants. It's like I've got some property. Other persons like I'll watch your property and I'll, give you some money, so they're like okay, but there's a there's, a saying like there's no power in yes, when you're a government regulating there's no power and just saying okay, that's! Okay! That's fine with me! So these government agencies sit around and, like I don't know, I can't think of a concrete consumer harm to any of this, but I just don't like saying yes, because then I have no power over these companies that I didn't build and don't I don't own but they are thinking of concrete consumer arms that that's the whole gay right. The department of justice took eighteen time warner to court. They wisted lou early every consumer harm they could think of, except the one that was important republican party.

Leaving that neutrality whatever and they lost rights. I it varies like this function. Where you get you, you get some recourse, but that's their job is to identify consumer arms and their job is to say like in particular for the fcc for them to say. Wireless spectrum is a fixed amount of territory and we have to like partition it up. So it's used in the way that best serves the public. And so here I just like, I think it is wild that the trump fcc and the trump d o J I dislike at odds with further, it is particularly funny because pie is entire. Like mode to weaken the assisi right he's like handed off a bunch of enforcement What do they have? Tc he's handed off a bunch of authority, other agencies. Nobody, days, like it's cool that you'd agree to this deal or exactly what they said. What happened is enough for you, but we are just now.

Pay attention to you pretty funny to me at the boy like that example, though, like all contracts are backed up with a gun. if I agree to sell you a bunch of stuff and I take your money and I don't deliver the goods. What is your recourse, except to have the state show up? It's you would just. I have to shoot me right, you you would you would have to do the violence and like we've just like set that aside and like in all of these circumstances. It's like a very thorny question of like how much do you want the government to start doing stuff? What if we built a gymnasium across both your yards and we train. Proud olympic athletes, their tiny just wasn't either didn't belong here. You know Russell. our eyes saw. Who can I can? I read, isn't really living. I have one last terrifying. This happened while we were tom, while we are talking trump pad, one of his press conference

be sort of rambling. Any said said, quote ways very, very dangerous, and- and this is a paraphrase he could imagine it be included in I'm sort of trade deal o my god. Those are the sorts things, their intention and friend of the show fcc. Commissioner, just corrosion? Worse said, these comments are going to require Some more explanation. That's like I feel like all news out of the trump white house should just be like prefaced issues. Accurate by those words yet so lightly to drinking in washington dc tonight. Yes, it's a very fine thing. We forgot by the way to dunk on eighty. Indeed, at all in the show, and I just wanna play my own peace, which is an agency is plan. It sorry, I

india, focused on the unworn or media, I described a distant nightmare world yeah, it's terrifying. What they're planning to do? That's why you should break them up Paul. This is why you should become a cypher punk, so it doesn't matter. Every subscriber will be forced to watch the justice league movie tat to make their fellow we gotta do this, This is my new mood whenever one of these big companies does something horrible like I just I missed this story. Google just tracks everything you ever by. I viewed as this wonderful opportune, d to sever my relationship from a horrible company that is like it's hard to get the enough inertia to cancel everything all the time every day, because every companies being horrible to you constantly but when they do really hard a really bad really mean that's where you have the energy to leave and I m very excited to start quitting google

ordered to leave us someplace to go, require some competition. My friend, my will build operating santa. I am all for Market dynamic just requires marketplace participants or here's my other option, it sort of the army. Russell's gymnasium idea one single gigantic corporate overlord- that I'm in charge of think about it. I know you're gonna transition from this into like a casper mattresses. We gotta go, that's the virgin I love your all was heavy this week, but it was important, Yes, I'm glad you're here happy to be here. You can listen to a much more fun potentially to be. A button actually caitlin are going after it is this season. Is amazing check it out. It's over a reserve. I think they're do there, you should Listen to it there about, have an entire series, and, unlike death in this go for it there's going for its fun.

You can start the process for your favorite podcast app just hit the link in the show notes also rate and review us on apple podcast, which is a ratings monopoly. So that's where we want you to go. You can tweet at us, I'm at reckless theaters outback on posit future Paul Russell where you at Russell brand, I'm very nice Rock'N'Roll. I was kidding I'll. Definitely let you use my

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