Say average asked Tom warrant joins us show we talk about microsoft, samsung, Hell earnings little bit tesla and casey newton. it's the show. We talk about what is going on cherry on spotify with the little apple earnings at the end. That's coming up on the chest. Next, hey, I'm ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of mint, unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. It mint mobile dot com, slash, switch new activation, an upfront payment for three month plan required taxes and fees. Extra additional restrictions apply cement, mobile dot com for full terms,.

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indication you'd like we'll get his instigated. I know where he is he's tearing down a tree in the backyard. All know is that occasion is a tree, the ethics. It's been. It's been a big projects to run one tree for dinner, but our answer. Yes, I've torn down notaries Tom war is here at every turn. Aren't you in tat it sucks. I feel like you, could you could chainsaw tree at any now, I'm back or back yeah. I think I think they will get very upset. If I go to a park and chopped up a tree, I don't think Well, it's like the to the two upper centres of car heart america, texas in brooklyn, I'm wearing car heart right now it was, is far more expensive to buy in brooklyn. So much more anyhow, peterson vacation Alex. Is here, thomson adjourn aside what microsoft stuff simpson into and a little bit later. Casey Newton is gonna dress. We are talking about neil young and spotify with Kc, which we'll just see where that goes, we'll just see where that takes.

alright. Let's start with earnings, it was a big week of earnings, earning season. Yet again, a little inside baseball for life, stuff, J, cass rackets runs earnings for us and I feel it every quarter when you send the email, that's like its earnings again yesterday. yes to perform an amount of enthusiasm that is getting increasingly desperate it put an emerging in the subjects: londoner, spicy, visa up truth of tech report. It cause it every three months. You have to do earnings coverage, so here we are again. So microsoft, I've soft is there having a moment right there Tom, thereby Activision numbers are great clouds it gone gangbusters. What? What? What's up with microsoft? How attitude arrangements pretty The same is the same as normal, slightly cloud services office. Will this stuff is culture,

in heavily to their bottom line, but they will surprise elements this time, and this is obviously windows. I mean he might call it a surprise, but over the past year the pc market has been booming, as it was in twenty twenty with a pandemic, so surprising, surprising. I dunno depends on your stance really, but that was, I think he was like something like twenty five percent up on windows or iam revenue, which is quite a jump for windows, because it knew the position it was in before the pandemic as well so and then they that she predicted that surface would be down down in africa single digits of revenue percentage, but that didn't happen. It was actually up, so that was kind of surprising as well. So maybe they found some chips, the debate to ship more than they expecting did people just love the plinth. She is just as busy as them for the shape, who doesn't love a plinth, everyone hated

Apart from some people bought at any rate raised, there has payment me paris, penny. Who is she private off surfer windows and devices which encompasses service? He had a blog post above us as it adds like it's. A corporate blog first reply. We can see that the genesis of it was like I gotta figure out. People keep buying pcs So there's like wrote down all of his thoughts. Could it's unusual? No one is expecting this. Obviously our independent mac- and here I think, A lot of people expected it snapped back right. about the pieces early to work from home. But then I just kept buying more pcs and it hasn't seem to have stopped vienna. Think he's blow prices of sea uses a bunch of lies, stats that they colorful have have you never will the usage numbers that they have, but it is kind of interesting because it does show that people, perhaps using pcs more than they were before and in so different ways.

I know. I know for sure that I pick up my phone less now cause I'm just stuck indoors. So it's like. I don't have that time where I'm traveling to an office as much anymore. So not listening to podcasts on my phone I don't these saw tossed. I was using my phone for a lot more, so I can see why which true, if some of the stats they've backed up with but yeah, I mean like the whole blog post was like for Louise. That's an interesting figures about usage. You know just percentage stuff that doesn't really mean anything because if he doesn't every night was all based on the worst by the way is when I'm looking at twitter on my laptop and then I pick up my phone and then I open twitter, and I don't know what I've accomplished you just chasing the notifications just make sure I've missed anything yeah yeah. Well, he called at three trends. I it's it's the three trends that blog post, I think are, interesting, because you would have called them at the beginning of the pandemic. But it's interesting to hear microsoft scenario, The rise in hybrid workin learning shifts,

entertainment habits and distribution models which has just dreaming and check in consumer habits for everyday tasks, which is a little fuzzy here, but I think it means Tom's at home and picking up his phone less pretty much yeah, I'm pretty sure, that's what that means right yeah. So you would have predicted that at the beginning of the pandemic is the sort of like ongoing increase in the is sales surprising to you, yes, and no, I think there's still that one ongoing reality for a lot of businesses, especially like that that would probably thinking last year before macron arrived. You know, reporting

go back into the office and now they're, like can yeah. That was two years ago. Just feels like it. But boy is that staggered? You know like businesses, thinking, oh we're, probably gonna go back to normal, then the reality hang that things aren't going to go about. Some of them were like who knows, it's probably gonna, be another veteran and who knows what's going to happen basically, and I think that rallies hitting again bulls hitting last year and the stuff they're going to hit again this year. So I think I wouldn't be surprised if sales dip off a little bit this year cause you just cause the windows eleven refresh stuff. You know if I think up everyone. Who's needed. A pc. Pcs, probably bought one by now that odious, but between twenty twenty and twenty and twenty one, so faint twenty I mean to be a bit different, but yeah, I'm not that surprised that twenty twenty one was still a big year for pc sales. To be honest, so you think it was more driven by the companies and not as much by like people at home,

yeah, I think is, is a mixture? Isn't it because she used to go a little people, I think at the beginning of the pandemic. The reality is that like schools, obviously don't have these devices for one per people right, so the z rally a flight people having to scramble and get to those particular sort of consumer devices, and it it's probably the reality if, like Hell, I've got some crusty old laptop at the time. How am I supposed to remote work and then the real core of reality is the businesses are looking. Oh, we you know. Are we still using desktops? A lot of people are using laptops. They have been over the past decade, but some shops are still. You know like desktops to shipped those to our employees or tweak upgrade into laptops as zoe so difficult decisions to make

I think that creates a new sort of like cycle of buying from from businesses, and they are the main consumers really have pcs right now. They they drive like an ease of growth and pcs. Really, so I think that that's pretty much what's been happening. You know what's interesting, monica that great piece about how all piece like the the market is totally reshuffled garb old categories of enterprise. Laptops are consumer, that's like it's all. Just there all the stuff I'll. Just one thing now the gaming pcs are going webcams eggs, everyone who wants to do a bunch of stuff on the same divestment in what strikes me The most interesting pcs are at the high and now like there's a lot of really nice premium, pcs, then you are talking about how surface was surprisingly up. The whole point of the surface line was too like dr the high end of the market and prove that they can compete with apple. A thousand dollars, and now I'm not sure they need to make that thesis. Isn't the point anymore?

the issues may be why there are like forecasting down but there's still selling a lot. That's what's the next plan for surface because the market, is sorted out that there's a lot of action above a thousand dollars now well that's already interesting question and is this is hard to answer it because they've experimented a lot with surface and some stuff hasn't worked. I would say, like you know the pointing to the geos as something that hasn't really worked so far. Maybe the thirty oration might work, but not just got andred eleven. It took scott way, another two is for android, twelve, the next I'm such a late hour, performative really pulls out a dual in the corner what she loves doing it'll be running andred, eleven or twelve, maybe hopeful

and in this the surface studio right now. That was a cool sort of experiment to reedy, and that was very you know, going off the apple base of creatives and stuff, and I don't think that's that's not ready health, but I don't think he ever necessarily will spice do, but that their core is kind of like the surface laptop and surface pro those two tablets and whatever different models. They do to target different sections of the market, but it's like today carry on just iterating on those like like a mac but put quid or do they try and do something new like the surface laptop studio, and this was code here-

Plinth is like: wasn't there a dual screen laptop for awhile? If I could have sworn they announced? One like I feel, like I wrote about why the neo came and it went away. Then they killed. It cancelled. Basically, yeah like that. That sort of stuff was definitely so. You prevent democrats that can have ones on the move and move super busy, and how can we work whilst on our laps and all that stuff, but like that's just out, when don't answer the, maybe your device like that might come back eventually. So, what's the big question for that, my guests like what would it Is that like this is what I'm saying so the initial thesis was don't make garbage we're going to make not garbage and you'll see that people like right in a did it. Like I mean you have to you, put yourself back then they were like. Don't use garbage sixteen by nine screens surface laptop! we'll have a nice for by three screens like they were. It was.

In a barrel improvements to compete with apple at the high end of the market. They did that then they were like in the form factors right there like this. One has a kick stand this one flips over. This was the studio, looks beautiful. But what? If it didn't have a jp, there was any good like they were in it. You know it They're kind of like the whole market is doing that and I think my quotas maybe the next thesis was dual screens right. sobs idea was. We will push the market we'll take the risk, but nobody wants

it's just that there doesn't seem to be one of those anymore. I think that the next experimentation phase will probably be like they've pushed a lot about. Repair abilities are like modularity maps and that sort of stuff, but also like chip, experimentation like cause they. They got me into doing arm stuff, so potentially with amd, there's less rumors about that, so they willing to experiment more without an onset to us, isn't it we have to see they've already shipped an unarmed surface pro x and a couple of those, so they want to make a good arm product is experiment. That would be a good idea. Maybe something that doesn't have a call kinship wasn't citizen crescendo amount from com was under category is, like next year, the good armchairs coming but keep adding say. I've heard that

what ten years he makes a good arm ship for fountains, but timah the one the repair bill. East of is super interesting because they launched as super office at two hundred and forty nine dollars surface laptop and se. I think that that's gonna be an interesting market for them. If they can push offer items to go that way as well. I oversee and enjoy and push apple to solve the what about say, but gaming like they. They they just like they've gone real hardcore into gaming. They were always hard trading, but like it's it's it's one is one thing: that's definitely missing: yeah yeah, it's definitely missing from their lineup they've kind of experimental gps and on the left subside whenever it is gone, but like terribly right like all the gps, video horribly underpowered and like a year It has been old models yeah exactly so, maybe that that that's definitely a hole that they need to fill but visit, but microsoft gaming. If you want to buy a windows, we see from microsoft, it runs games only by an xbox.

And then you wouldn't project ex cloud or whatever it's called now loaded up, get some halo We should follow gaming. So that's the window side. You know one thing which I'm an arm, you know in eleven assessed we getting at the end of our support next month. It feel I get that it was an answer, the huge kaboom and, as you know, we're just kind of in that that middle period, where it's like whoa Why we ve we ve started rums alive have you heard any developments there is going better than we anticipated so

It late, I think the department of android apps on windows is like. Do you need them? I think that's the that's the big question and and how they implement it, and all that stuff kind of is a secondary thing really, but I think it runs pretty well. If you've got the hardware, I don't see nita a windows, ten eleven, so a officially supported device for it and all that stuff beavis ago Google, who are also doing their own thing, where they're trying to bring games to it, so they at least they've had she focused on a specific segment of the market. That makes sense like you might want android games on your on your p sakes. Is there there's actually use cases for that, so that kind of makes sense, but whereas Marshall stuff with amazon, is a bit at, and I still feels a bit like who needs this and was

the use case like if they, if they focus squarely on games like it could be, it makes sense. But I dunno we'll see if people use it and I'm not, I'm not convinced they will. I feel it could go focus on games because they can do in app purchases games and widows, and no one can mad at them, because you could also just ship your game on windows. I go to the place. competitive and then, but also ease we will see if I don't see any that works for google but Certainly, the idea that you play casual games in your pc and they'll get the game revenue that they get an android without the regulatory troubles that all the mobile platforms are getting into this very clever. It's like maybe one step away from a galaxy brain thinking, but it is very clever that is, and they have competition. They will see. Bluestacks of of you know, bail out platform that the ships will know yam devices and stuff, but you know they've got the google play advantage of, and they say, like you know, they they can have

they use. It, though, like how do people are firing up? Andred game soon will show the blue stocks numbers, but I think they have like a relatively healthy business. This was a slower than I am and they event she taking like the model of we're having these apps running on windows there just taken into cloud since just one arm service in the cloud, these amazon service, so that kind of instincts, even one android apps within a brow. And then it's like. Where does the fallout shelter? Where does this end for him and respect him? He will use bluestacks, but I think it's like that. You know that they have a healthy business fishel. So if he gets like a small amount, I do love there's three competing ways. andrew adapts unto and as we see and you have started with. But why would anyone want this? An opaque, I dunno, but if you do infinite ways to do it, we'll see I'm very excited for like me,

you're soft and amazon provide some sort of like app distribution. Competition to Google. We just seen it then I think we ve seen it on any platform and so on. I'm just very cure. See echoes, even though I suspect, having used amazon's app store, can feel that nothing that yet she won't will be there Do you want a six year old version of the sentence, player and amazon's here for you, okay, we gotta talk about activision with you, you weren't around last week, when the steel went out.

Microsoft said it's going to buy activision that deals already facing raceway shirt needs a massive deal. They're gained the xbox division. I guess it's now microsoft gaming. They did really well this. This quarter. It seems like they're poised to keep growing yeah like have, I think they em they're, having like record cools, and they they growing of see a thing. Even with this deal, they're still saying that the revenue will still be in third spot upon tension and and sony. So this doesn't immediately know bank them into his old monopoly position. Whoever bought like the the deal is just super interesting in terms of the way that mice have sort of like structured in

I don't stay there like he could take his twelve to eighteen months, which is kind of an unusually long time, and I wonder if flight polyphase will see their expecting a lot from the tree. You know push back on this suicide at sufficient, just all prices. Seventy markets as well, but also I feel like they've lifted, settle some cushion to like get activision to clean I should like that is. A part of this is well like. I don't think that even a free take activision on until some of those gross issues with the companies culture of rectified so that you can see they ve been doing over the past six months and his misery and why we heard about some others firing day before my sort announced. This accusation is so sweet that under the rug here like

surfing, is part of that. But in terms of the deal is it's consolidation in a in an industry that is just from the pandemics a lot of things just been booming? Hasn't it like gaming is just exploding, it will different directions is super interesting. Do you go handhelds growing now your cloud gaming on horizon? It's just a big battle. I don't think marshall sitting there with game pause. Trying to you know they want exclusive content stuff, just as netflix does just as disney does, and it's just a battle for your attention. Isn't it then how much she can keep that person on that subscription and in the ongoing revenue, so activision blizzard call of duty, it will makes it will make sense but says a lot of money. It feels like sony's like path to exclusives and it sounds really well like. Historically, it's had the better exclusives halo accepted like their their path, has always been kind like make deals with studios, occasionally buy studios, but make deals with studios and microsoft was like no. No, we just buy

studios now is that he can't like it just like buying their way to exclusivity the army. They they just need the content I like they have love aging. I pay is really like full of seafarers and and halo whoa. You know the economy to churn out so many of those games before like I need a ball's energy drink and like one of those puka shell necklaces, to play a lot of these franchises and yeah it's It just seems like a really I mean this is the anti trust persuaded me horrible way to get the x since so microsoft said: they're gonna. Do the next three call of duty someplace which there are so many hollow duties and infinite variations within any one call of duty. That liked not entirely sure that promise means, but when microsoft was announced, the deal phil spencer said. I want to keep call of duty,

precision and they intend to honour existing agreements and am Bloomberg had reported that atoms already signed a deal for those three games there. I really unclear what so need through at microsoft, does at the next turn us and its heart like after. We betray a lot about anti trust in the last few weeks feels like end all these investigations into facebook and staff, and everybody does wit when they're going to buy a bunch of other companies that I get a worry where we're gonna be to forget about it. It's like this north, nothing to stop you besides, like irate guys on twitter, from making the next college Judy after your contractually obligated to make them facility just making it microsoft exclusive. It is like you, gotta give us more than to secure you're you're good handshake fell spencer, nothing, I think, a law that woozy regal eighteen months this'll closes, there's gonna be a long time, so we really figure out what a day but the more interesting pause they they made. This marks of gaming division.

and now fills the ceo of its not just as it does a special title. Myself to be a sea of separate business, because of gg they acquire stuff in and then keep c in place to run that business. I it shows you the intent of what they're, what they're doing so and obviously that's going to mean Bobby's gone like I know there was some confusion around that and the way they are calling it. Oh yeah he's gone like a eve one hundred percent yeah, like you, can read it in the way that he sent the email to employees the way that microsoft kind of rare around it. But this is his exit right and it makes them a lot of money and well, if not for the immigrant cultural issues. I would take that exit, yeah yeah means dislike, and I do x if you've had shitty coach issues that your company, even nord, and perhaps participate in se. But that's that's not capitalism, I guess so

we await the like tom, like you, said, the steals a long way out. A lot of things have happened between here now, including the deal getting blocked see, but it just seems like it. Adele answered over. He was all, on microsoft as a cloud services company, we gonna serve level developers, r and d emphasise windows. I don't really know. What's going on with games with, seems important and we have just come off the way to Gosh for signing a lot of pcs and we're gonna be the third biggest gaming company in the world, and that is, I feel, a little full circle to you. but obviously cloudlike, address doing amazing, but it just the emphasis wise, we're kind of it The boy we saw a lot of windows licences and his ex boxing is gone. Gangbusters yeas is wild that then, that they can be the third bees gaming company

and I have all these franchises under their control. Like a yeah like this, if you'd asked me that a couple of years ago in the fall, they would be in the position of buying activision at all. The festa, like both of those have a massive we, we fought professed them as big. This is, this is bigger than them is them all. I mean they still have a lot of cash on hand, so they can still be done some. I don't think this is the end. Sony just by summer, bind intend out, give us lake proper cloud storage. What actually brought up clogging like it's interesting that almost none of the activision deal point They brought the matter verse more than it brought up proud like cloud gaming like it's easy to like. That's actually that very clear future Gonna do the xbox app on smart tvs like it's, it's all coming! Didn't you know what an xbox up on and precision

because that's what you call a duty and a playstation here. This is the main thing that, because of sea netflix is on all of these councils in and if you, in a parallel that with experts gain pulse, which of you, which we do a lot so He was naturally want your service to be on. Playstation wants to stream, but, upon with, is that these experts gained person in his experts cloud came in there to kind of separate things. Eggs will gain pulse, allows you to download games and play them, which is while or people like it is not currently anyway, that they didn't like it cause they can get ex cloud and on stream games like that, still something it's very nation. I think a lot of game is on particular impressed with, because the land sea and air fares it's weird because of what games. on it. I say this mainly because I really wanted to play age of empires. When I went to Texas that I could not I was like well, I can play all the halo I want. I just want to play age of empires badly. Yeah, the the still life figure

in the sole pcs hood of like streaming games- and I think that'll come this year- and next but yeah like they still, I don't think, there's still a great demand for streaming it, but whereas to get exposed to game pass or whatever you wanna call it onto the playstation, you only can do that from streaming. You're not going to get those native experts games on playstation likes to have to rewrite and then we'll portland of stuff. That's just it's just not gonna happen. So bite, Do you believe that experts gave us will probably be on play station at some point like it? I didn't see that that's another line in the sand. That's another. Both vision is a big version, no way sony. Let that happen are you. it's slow, like David, yeah that sony and microsoft want to work together more than they want amazon, Google and whoever else to enter the market and take a slice of the money that they make. I have a

oral question, very collusion, that's what you're yards color! I mean you want to keep the topics that sought to was wanna, keep it up to you and we ve seen if the xbox hardware gonna one day be like the surface of gaming councils. Were it's like this. Is microsoft, big fancy, microsoft idea of what they should look like and also sony and and steam. I guess I do. How do you feel about the steam deck and a nintendo make their other access point star, giant claude gaming empire? like is at an end game I mean, is entirely feasible and that could be the future fisher like the way things are going and then the investment in the especially in the services, it does mean the end of the decade. We get the idea that there's an exposed app on the playstation store is that crazy carry does seem crazier, yak, but lucia.

I don't know the source of it. They had a strategic partnership, sony to code, develop streaming solutions for gaming and entertainment services. We don't you know exactly what that means in like what's shaping up there but ass. An issue do you know like on on the back and that, as there was a definite, does a definite business partnership of sea exports playstation still compete individually, but, like I dunno like I, be surprised if, if it's only does enter into it, I guess is more serious about position now that they have an app on exports and exports has an up. Why man, they re, wounded What surprised me, but I don't know man, I disliked the amount of revenue sharing they'd have to agree to deficits. If you're watching tv on your playstation like at least you're still using your playstation yeah and there's a chance they're going to light up a game and play a game

then, like sony, makes a lot of tv shows as chancellor's washing a seventy tv shit like it all kind of works. I think the same is largely true for you're soft. Maybe you just watching MSNBC on xbox and gates. His dream, the aim is stored. Msnbc, it's very funny to me that I love it. They turn out to be with you, but I think once you get to We ve turned your peers. Five into a dumb terminal for exports game, pass like someone seventy like hey. Did you run this by anyone and did you the sea ono at those decision. If we truly believe that cloud timing is the future, then you know like we supply pulling my submissive glad to netflix and disneyland probably not much else solely on major subscribe to play station and exports and a future that maybe nintendo verna lycaena like it's not is not out of the rounds writs air time

collusion, silent, samson quickly, then take a break out. Samson seems like it had a great quarter than they were in the doldrums last year and they ve bounds. way back, yeah yeah they they they actually they sold, seem to think they were mainly driven by like t v sales, because people like to buy tv's and- and surprisingly phones- I mean surprisingly for me- I guess especially being here. We've talked a lot about everybody likes to buy laptops and I keep thinking okay. Well, that means they're, not buying phones and no samsung is people are buying phones. They saw like twenty four percent, twenty four you're, a real growth so late, it's kind of incredible its twenty four percent year over year revenue growth, total right. That is attributed to phones and tvs and appliances? I also saw a big drive in semi conductor business. So, despite there being like nobody actually able to make them in ship them to people to put into phone sin and other devices they they did a really good job

Eddie was fifty two percent year on year for profit growth in in debt, that business, so just really really huge wonderful time for them to go and announce a brand new phone that may or may not have some sam sancho said it in a carbon tax at a cup, or we will have an ongoing argument with Thomas erika ah, but he he predicted the sums onward. like dead at some point in the next five years, the family that runs a written trying by it's too big to fail. Later this year they got so many different businesses. Tethered chip thing is like interest yeah, so they could not pretty Since it makes a lot of ram and make a flash storage, they are not the produce as much as people wanted, but it like makes I'd like that. shortages. All on the demand side. What have you got a chip right now? Some alibi

you just like, if you do you're just walking down the streets, I add chips like someone will crank those price invite like desperate for them, so that I think makes sense just didn't, see the samson not able to deliver phones. Last year they just weren't able to do it. It was like hard to buy a samsung phone and we saw apple just like scoop all that up. Yeah right, like the carriers are in the midst of, endless, is to create a five year. Transition period are fighting. airplanes like whatever comes gonna, be on sixty before we get there with them. You see, while maastricht was tweeting about, he was doing a five year. Speed testing. I prefer my plans to work. This is I tat was like five make us a moment ago, it seems like the carriers are still heavily subsidizing files. You phone simpson was able to pixie add up a man. You have. People are at home centres by eta, tvs and appliances

samsung like makes a lotta refrigerators, and I think they just kind of like gotten back on The big question is whether the authorities Amelia and how I talk about it in a way in ceuta february. Neither have confirmed that while they ve confirmed a galaxy unpacked event. And everything else is leak. So we know the website next week by mistake: yeah they're, going to mail us all one before, but it's going to have a stylus it'll have a six point, one. display, it just seems can iterative upgrading, adding a styles and the questions is that going to be the notice back is going to have a fingerprint reader in the screen that right yeah, but that is one of the leaks right, ultrasonic, fingerprint reader says cool if it works, so it'll have a slow fingerprint reader? I think the first one of those was like in twenty sixteen, so it took us seven years to get to like an in screen reader that on a flagship device that people would actually

in the united states and isn't the rumours that the iphone is going that way, potentially the iphone rumours, knotted, a samson hunters naturally apple, the iphone rumors right now are out of control in terms of lake. Italy. Dot dash and their inhabitants. All this makes that's gonna cuddle you at night. They make you feel better when you wake up every morning, like it's just magic bullet. What's the point, samson is, it seems. I think were able to deliver funds which was very challenging them for them a year ago, but I I really believe all that phone demand is carriers given phones away see they can turn off their three g in forging networks right, which there are no position to do right now. Maybe they're going to turn off their networks? There's a lot of like arjuna with chihuahua and sprint around that stuff. Right now, but they've gotta upgrade the phones they can like reform. The spectrum and so I think the phone companies like yet here some phones here, some five eu funds.

Right samsung's there. But I just don't think the big question for samsung is: how are they going to differentiate this phone from from the s twenty one everything else in the market right now and then portugal from the s twenty? What it's got a size type and, like importantly, because apple his ship, so many funds in this market, insulted me funds because they were able to deliver these fine. She upgrades like a lot of people who just bought an expensive phone, so Lay icing is a challenge in time for them of the estimated and then, of course, there's like the green bubble discourse happening everywhere. I think, like the guy's counting the numbers counting captain, the beans over samsung are really excited that they just announced that cutie tv, because that can we saw a lot of funds, the scope of this quarter there. It's it's all about the tv business, for them. Yet it's easy stuff at sea ass was his prey goal that is treated like we ve been weighing vs voluntary

I really really really want to see when I am personally when I like drive out to jersey interest bearing on the door at their little tv testing, lab it'd be like please let me in they won't they'll, be like please leave. I see your tv. That's a classic little kid move. I can I see your tv sm so yeah february ninth is on that we're all swimming its yesterday to the tv are gonna, be let this summer we will need tvs, come out the idea that they they won't. They will not actually affect this quarter. That they'll come out this summer. Slowly, but surely you'll only see, reviews of the giant ones, but once again samsung is, is not at mobile world congress right with it's announcement at mobile world congress is still going ahead. If you don't know what I was going to be there or who jumper Lower is like way back in the day time when, like Microsoft word announced an entirely new operating system and then twenty minutes later, like

sony ericsson were announced. Five hundred phones, those days are over, like now does deafening carrier executives just doing carrier stuff wilson Beware: unpacked! We are sort of expecting a new galaxy. I say which I will bring up. His google has a new head of andrew tablets, rich minor, whose like an old school Google executive, and he has come back to run a tablet teeth. Make it happened this time. That is that the tablet with the notch yeah the s eight year there are other- renders I seen the not just so tiny as to have me going, whereas the notch, but does not that some some spend spend millions of marketing dollars on apple over the head for, I think nauseous over future. I just think it's interesting. We are hearing about saving a sort of like been the only player and andrew tablets roland here, ray of our from a very, very cheap ones. I did see it

I talked to the guy who bought all of the one hundred dollar tablets at a walmart to try to mine bitcoin with it was like a long video and then I built this whole thing and then, like the next it was like That cost so much money and I made five. So what did you think we're going to theirs? gps shortage, man is ragged. He's like running his like tablet, five hundred, Then there is obviously a market there, but sampling is pretty much been alone at ireland. I didn't suggesting that they put out another one to snatch, but Google is going to bring in a like a powerful executive to do it is somewhat fastened, to me just mason. Already we try to earth laptops and changing. Can in the home like the fight for crumble? They just ignored their tablet plans and are even know that slots in well. They didn't ignore it. They will

grid's going to be chromebook. No never mind never mind, never mind ignore that. Ignore that, like they definitely they were they've, been thinking about tablets into, except for maybe last year, the year before that that they did the terrible tablet, the pixel to go the guy no yeah like yeah. They they they keep flirting with it and trying to make it in chrome, o s. I think I called it chromecast a second ago, but they keep trying to make it and chromo s work together and now maybe they will not, and just respect their different markets. There was the pixel slate and it was very bad anteater hated it. That's why pixel slate and then Google was was gonna, make a pixel tablet and they cancel that everybody hated it. I think I was the only person who liked it and let us because mine was one of the few. That was a terrible like a kind of actually worked and they displayed a lot of follow shelter on it. I remember when we were you. I was like dita

What's she like that's exactly as real red flag development. Would it be like what did I do? I did a different thing than everyone else: revenue, would have ruined. It was nl dieterli tito, like siren member Michel. This thing he was very upset. That's amazon, we're seeing some southward hopefully will cease in google tablet tablets than we are great, because there's a lot of intel news. We need to talk about their their buildings and buildings. There might be stuffing them. Should a big deal we'll be right. Back: hey, I'm ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation we decided to,

deflate our prices due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of men unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try: men, mobile dot com, slash, switch new activation, an opera payment for three months and required taxes, and these extra additional restrictions apply seamen, mobiles outcome for full terms. This episode is brought to buy shop, a fine, no matter how big you want to grow shop. A gives you everything you need to take your business to the next level shot. The fight is the commerce platform that makes it easy to show up and sell exactly. The way you want to know need decoder, design, sign up for your one dollar per month, trial period today visit shop I outcome com, slash, offer twenty three to get started back, so there's a lot going with his entire announcement, but, like we ve been covering four come for a long time, so I feel bad Is everyone was like tweeting it meaning is intelligent high on fox I'm like no, I think they're actually

they're gonna make ships out see us through this deal yeah. I guess what everyone to know last week, age of thrill higher, and I looked at my friend and I said what is the point of ohio, I'm sorry to all of you. Listening in ohio, I've been we're trying to grow the audience reached her one state, you ve all turned off: it's ok really snowy engrossed said I was upset driving. And then I get back to new york. I papa, but my computer and I might well the sky like slap in the face. This was karma for this bad joke, because until is planning to spend twenty billion dollars on this huge fab in a higher it's their largest fab in decades there there they they kept calling it the silicone heartland is being built. In ohio and announce when someone from the silicon prairie sector, no just don't put silly caught in front of us all. for someone from the whiskers valley. I'm just don't don't brand the police brand please

That's why I delight in other there their planning to take an investment a billion dollars there. There are going to be investing in the universities there to try to create a whole new talent pool. The idea is that it's going to all kick off in around twenty twenty five and they'll be building. Actually, the terrifically terribly named intel eighteen, a like chips there, which is technically going to be like a tune enemies we chip, even though it's cold and eighteen, a don't get me started they're going to they're, going to build it there and and the ideas just build a whole new like center for chip manufacturing in general, just as historically been then like arizona, so its massive, obviously ohio, put in subsidies they do not offer the biggest package of living is interesting. They are deferring some employment taxes. They one town had to annex land from another town witches.

While local politics is very spicy, they did it What was really interesting to assist this great unhappy, their building chips, america and having to making this investment. I believe in tell when it says its way to manufacture chips in a way that fox on saying it was going to manufacture lcd tvs and america there are no elsie trepidation west in america, I gave you, just doesn't see There's a reality to this. Like the person you brought vaporware, but there's a realities in us and I can see Israel but its if you just look at the way there talking about it in a way that the politicians talking about it. There is massive disconnect floor reality rather like we need. solve the chip shortage. The automakers in fires interact, ohio will use ships? in my tron. Did this whole rundown he's like well socrates online anytime soon to stop the chip shortage, twenty twenty five! Maybe intel! Does it make any chips from car

Would they make like their most cutting edge chips for car? That's deaf we're not going to happen. He kind of like in his peace excited. They arises why they're all suggests lake. Why they're they're, using all this huge, bombastic language at its that really Biden specifically, is trying to push through a bill right now that will get more chip funding and so This is kind of like the taste, the tease of saying, hey, look, look ohio, give him a little money and now they're going to change the world. Think of how much world changing had happened. If you give him a lot of money So the idea that a ship buggered silverado with heated seeds, you need it two nanometre shit. Why? What are we talking about? Like that's the problem with the car industry, like their old process nodes, do not have any supply source that I've. I've talked the lots of car ceos now they're very clear cut up. It's and they all say it's going to be over by like the middle of the summer or maybe in the next year of things. If there's enough,

supplied shock? Wait like, but they're all like we're managing through the cars are coming off the trucks edges. I agree with you, I think there's some political expediency here that ships act is floating around we as covering every twist and turn a bit right now. Are you It's great. It's just going to be a long time wasted still I know exactly what they're going to build there they'll do a no. No they. They said that they're planning to build like the Angstrom line there so like they, the eighteen, a that they are planning like that's the kind of thing they would want to be building there. But my favorite part of this was the the size comparison, which is that intel says. Oh yes, ours is going to be huge, it's gonna be thirty. football field in size- and my god then dancing had said well- are that they built one recently an end twenty twenty and theirs was sixteen soccer fields inside

sorry top, I'm so sorry for doing this. Sucker fields, a burden for the arabs and then now gyp lake there's a third samsung fad, though allegedly be twenty five soccer fields, and I just hope that everything is measured in sports fields and not even the same one. we can't even agree on the spot field is the superbowl worldcom chips. One sean was right. It s all down. He just had to put him is now being like soccer fields are larger than football field. But we know how large is very gets very. so the other thing is entails already: spending twenty billion and to new fabs in arizona rate, Tear some is gonna build factories. what texas in arizona believe MIKE, manufacturing is coming to united states.

And then there is this bill and congress, which would fund even more of it. So I buy that there, the waiter talking about it, is just to put some capital. Found it like when a chip shortage eases up people like I remember when they announced others football fields, maybe, I wrote for whoever was on stage that that point in time, pat Gallagher this is years away from react. I'm guessing urgency of entire was on soon be seated here and he was like. We had great earnings were excited. You can see where a little bit how to schedule the action that ships act is a ok. you're my keys, duenna politicians yeah cause I you know he runs. The biggest should make the united states so that the trips acts pat like he gets the money

like you, don't need it for that. It's just interesting to see it intel, I think, pat, has a he's, got a good plan. I keep asking come on. Dakota will make it happen. He's got a good plan, but it's the amount of politics he's doing this sort of, unlike most of the other ceos that we encounter when he's fully into invest in intel, pass some bills give us money. We will shore up the american high tech supply chain because we're intel your other choices are samsung and tsmc. I think it's because he's also a different kind of company right, like like intel, has always been building a lot of their kits here in the united states. They've they've always been kind of a manufacturer on top of being the rmd. At other things we associate with giant technology company the googles and the microsoft and stuff of the world aren't doing that. They're, not manufacturing, especially at that scale, and when they do, it's always been outsource manufacturing. So it's a very different kind of makes sense that he would come at this

From like the car ceo angle of things wheeling and dealing, rather than those of the way we sing, google and microsoft on facebook and other large tech companies interact with washington, he's he's an engineer hers. He he's definitely engineering in so out of work, for they were doing before issues while there were two hundred drowned and also some weird stuff engineering, his into a big pile of money from DC, irrespective yet not getting to know process. I think a lot of people row of insulin and their ambitions years ago, because they would they kind of when a bit strange, see us for the future jeez monitor on light shares and low drain shows? Just as it is just that crazy ellen love like we miss mobile,

it seems like a place without purpose and yeah, but having pat back his offerings can be super interesting, especially with these two new fabs and who knows if they get tight, we'll see that, but I think just the stuff that I don't nip their back on the pc side as well for sure, like on the laptop sites, is good too competition should be pushed blandy in error of anti semitism, say, sir, I'm a mean tree to see where they go in, and I love you. I will say in this, my last until now that our names that it ok it beats mess demands. Third client group, which is their truly consortia represent. But their next generation server chip pat says, is on central disheartening reason I bring it up is because that ship is code named sapphire rapids gas, which absolutely sense of a nightclub betsy credible what just whoever assuming that stuff get amanda, that consumer aside

they should just go straight to my club name, the next generation trips. It sounds like a disney like riders, where's. The specific kind of my club, I think, sounds like this are found in tat. We should understand that we will be one way to get some heat back on. names. I got tessa real, quick tat, another profitable year. They call them break through there a lot of cars, just every car they make an actually getting very efficient and making the cars build quality issues aside but some of the noise around them right, The roma rest of the world, whether I was Would you like a vapor where do the vaporware segment first gulf war, so that slovenia. Vaporware situation is like increasingly clear. Is the cyber track- is delayed until next year. There's a day, there is a cyber shock floating around that the factory in texas. The elon as you striving theirs,

videos, just random people, walking up to me, like damn that looks like a triangle like a hilarious video. It's on our so inga. It's like a random dude, just like security guards or something very like that's. The wiper hearth kicks everything, so that's delayed until next year. You know how I feel about vaporware cars by the way, I'm pretty confident just based on the the the use of the word vaporware timeline. Since we started talking about the April cars in the show that that is, we did that. Yes, we brought the nineties back benny so I think the cyber truck is vapor till it ships just like, I think, the rivian and the f one fifty lightning all that silverado of April till the ship. But then the roadster is pure paper. The semi is pure vapor, an then elon like them. Important thing we're gonna do is the optimum robot, which right now is a guy one seat. Its habits

it's the most of april this ethical trade and I've seen headlines that just have an absolute in nicosia. any of this thing is no: no. You got its sir listen neural link. Maybe he's got that like it is in this. in his brain. He said he's alive, you narrow again Iran is an amazing things: the rocket sick after land Location is all him. He misses Is that the I'm just saying. It's a guy this issue here, but don't forget about don't forget about the roma's. I won't forget about them It's a test. I had a second properly they are selling an awful lot of cars eat up. If you Am I right now you have tesla, your choice. If you can get up maki, you can find one and

hawkins or translation error has been ionic. Five hundred annex five, it is a vanishingly small list of lake practical, easy from a martyr and ass, I see what else is doing great it. Just as the the vaporware car situation is bad, with tesla it's a kind of getting worse. I just I hope they announce a plain next adjust the didn't like bigger and bigger things to be announced that never happen. I just love just wait for the mobile to join me yeah. Well, that's that's all they're going to get there now, so she views the robot. Testers were committed, graceful self driving is deeply problematic, variety reasons, and now the rest of the car industry has decided to abandon the term self driving because it has such a ban. wrap, so the the self dry- coalition for safer streets has reigned itself, to the autonomous vehicle industry association to distance itself from tests, so that group is way off

lift over volvo like and the software companies crews. Aurora argo like zirks there are like we're we're done with self driving we're like we're not using that word anymore, a lick on twitter early morning and the european time. So you get love west coast and is always just like a bunch of people with these cars they're on the fence? The the full self driving pay a thing and, let's just some some wild things, it's definitely the car trying to turn in front of a truck the by the by the way speaking he said, he said, riding will be completely operational this year, which has been saying for many years now but that's what he said. I am again, I all credit to the accomplishments. The rockets take often they land, that's a big accomplishment, but that the vapor situation around hassling prettily, like the whole car industry, are now is all vapor. It's just fake cars, its render over mercedes where they didn't centre. The load

all the way down the everything it's a guy in a suit was Alright, we gotta to take a break tom. Thank you so much for joining us new eyes. We gotta go we're going to come back and then casey and outside going to figure out what's going on, Celia is going to be emotional, but Tom thanks. So much we'll be right. Back between the kids being home and hosting everything in our house gets used up in summer with instacart can save money by stocking up on all my favorite summer brands. I save time like it everything delivered in as fast as an hour, and I say it myself, a simple of dirty dishes. By stocking up on paper plates for the annual summer, cookout save more on summer. Essentials spend more time enjoying summer. Add some are cart,

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Listeners may now is the guy who poison and corrupted my hero, aaron rodgers, but he's a very famous pot he's got exclusive spot. If I believe two hundred million dollar deal, if you even so much is whisper. The jury spotify, employee, spotify, pr personal. Like me, out of the bushes and remind you that it's not It's just a distribution, exclusive distribution deal and sought a is not employ. European but it is an exclusive distribution deal On his show, he often expresses an enormous amount of skepticism vaccines. To point recently network says: lot of people are always mad at him about that doctors are at a letter, and in this week melian said you know, I am out, take my music off a spotify. If I put up and openly, the other matter went down in summing up their imaginations. Spotify too millions music off its seems. A mask

it is a vast, it has been a mess, says spot a fire higher Joe rogue in on some level. You have to believe they knew exactly what they were getting into a right. They listen to the show. Joe rogan is very good at being an edge lord, he often just short of saying, don't get the vaccine. For example, they that's not a thing that he says, but he loves being in this mode of I'm just asking questions and, as a result, he has platform to a lot of conspiracy theories and some really awful folks and on one ends. But if I have said that they prohibit, their hosts from sharing covered misinformation that is likely to harm public health and yet on the jargon subject, they have taken no action, what however, so it really does feel like at least to me leave is the case spotify has said one thing and done another This is why I say when I think of troublesome moderation issues. I think of you. You ve covered content, moderation, a lot. We know at the big social peace.

Once we know how their moderation teams work by large. It's actually pretty remarkable. We might not agree with What does moderation teams do, but you have been to several face? moderation centres, as he reported at the conditions of those people work in you ve been to their war room about election moderation, which I believe you it gets a conference. Right, neal, mohan, who's, the the chief product officer at youtube, runs moderation. He human decoder. We talked about moderation. We know how twitter, like just down the line social class, No, they have to be at least somewhat transparent here. Spotify, like the the level of just opacity, is out of control. I can think of a single analog to its quite high, and I think we should keep in mind that spotify is relatively young in this phase right leg. spock. What didn't have moderation centres two or three years into its existence? Spotify only started

to sign these exclusive distribution deals two or three years ago, and I dont think that they have really made it up We're ready to spin up a set of like publishing standards, Essentially, they have not told us much about how they moderate content. You know, I think, up until now, we have one of these platforms that the podcast platforms in particular, take a very light hand when it comes to moderation, because most podcasting clients are just rss readers right and no matter how about a thing. is on the internet for the most part, we're not calling on. You know or assess feed readers to remove visa say it. It just sort of is is above the level We want to see content moderated, but something changes when you pay some. hundred million dollars right, and I think spotify has just sort of wilfully ignored that, but then Neil young came along and I think revealed that they are going to have

you change their approach. Is this office has only sort of wilfully ignored it? We you mean Joe, has said other extremely right on the border vaccine, the sceptical things and we asked I defy we actually eight. I got into a fight with spot by, I overestimate actually publish by. Actually we have had our on she's travelling, but actually cover spotify a lot with hop on tour newsletter. She a story about how they were ok with something rogan had said, and we had this debate there like. She hasn't cross or line as it, but you draw the line, that means that europe, have drawn. The line in such a place at this speech is ok like that's how this works. It just looks like someone, signature yeah. It's like what you drew a line under the line. It's you there's no else. There's! No, global standards right like there's a first amendment in this dream. That means a government can travel line. So it's you

I just don't have contended with it as they ve bought up all of these podcasts. You still have it now, of course I always think, is a splendid put yourself in the shoes of spotify as their thinking through acquiring the joke and pack gas, and we can assume that at no point during that meeting, was there someone in the room saying? Well, you know this means, we're going to have to develop domain expertise on science and medicine, because Joe is gonna, be making a lot of claims related to that, and we will make sure that he is not going too far outside the bounds of what is known to be true and yet in practice. I think, when you put yourself into up What's your role, the way spot? If I has you kind of have to do that, you, you have to take a position on something like do. You think the vaccines are effective which they are, and if so, do you want to pay people to tell them the opposite? I don't think we should pay people to tell them that vaccines, don't work, but spotify has chosen to do not end, and so it's only natural that you're starting to see folks an artist commuted,

rise up and say the hell of this to the other problem. Here the dynamics of spot of ice money, which are, unlike the youtube or whatever right here, youtuber or an instagram for once or whatever you put the content on the platform they monetize it in some way the cut you it check. The check is almost not as much as you want it to be in an acre video about why, according to inject, what you do, that's the pattern. We know it well, sir, If I write it bids effectually renting the music that you listen to so it has some pot of money that it makes and then as a bunch of deals with major lay. and artists to pay them per stream, which those numbers and high my smothered here, well, but basically everytime you pay spotify for music. It is pre allocated some of your subscription fee to the labels every time you stream music and then it obviously layers on advertising with podcasts. It just owns a bunch of studios

and had paid rogan all this money in every time you stream and episode of a podcast, the caught your they did, ought to pay for it again. Right, which is a very different model than every time you Seamus song, someone gets paid and also the keep all the ad revenue and they keep all the. So I have a huge economic incentive to make this work in their eyes. They are trying to lump the two things together, right, genial, accessible I don't want a moderate rap music right which, as you fair right, but they did try for while too de list are tele songs and by the way I this is a really hard problem like I don't want to sit here, smugly and tell you that I think the question of what do you do about our colleague on streaming service is really easy. My base feeling is. It should be ok to search for these people. But again, if you are going to put yourself in a publisher role and say we're gonna put together a, of our and be heads, I think it's actually ok for people who work at the coming. if they want to know if we want a future this person- and I can understand other people saying that

ridiculous, if you're going to start policing the behavior of every artist, we're going to have to delete the platform right, so these are just hard unsatisfying problems, but you know all that said. I have been fairly critical of spotify and the broken stuff Think young gonna be the only one doing those like. Are we going to see other musicians and is there the musician who can actually get spotify to be like actually never mind so yeah. So what I did. I was like what I was asking me: how different is this? If its taylor, swift or beauty ass, you I'm like? Oh, I think, to be really different ethnic spot. If I would have to say a lot more, If for no other reason than where taylor and beauty s go, others will presumably fall and again I do think people. What will follow mule young here, billina, something I've been. There about today is on what do they think Mozart is gonna, be on spotify cause, it's good for a further exposure, and I do think once you head some kind of threshold meal,

apparently at six million monthly listeners. I bet he's making some you no meaningful amount of of money off about, although I know how much I think there are probably also a lot of artists who are already rich and if they want to make a stand, by losing their spotify streaming revenue, which is nothing compared to what They already have it's probably a choice they could make. Now it's not always gonna, be there call it's gonna, be the call of the wreck. Labels rights. So my understanding is that warner brothers essentially had to go along with meal young when he made this decision. So what be as simple. As you know, taylor deciding she she doesn't want to be on the platform. Although taylor has but re recording all of her own music print edmund. You know this would give her the flexibility to do that. So look artists, bureau. Throughout all of history have made political stands and, to the extent that spotify pod castors want to take political stands at, you know, spread not. as I think it is only natural that we're see an ever increasing number of conflict between those two sides to the really different.

Ass. Anything about. Can some artist leave if you're warner brothers and you ve got neil young who is not releasing a ton of new music is like a cat one an artist and you're, always also in negotiations about rates with spotify and apple, music and title? This is great for you right he's going to quit. Spotify some people will switch to title a jack. Dorsey is like tweet and, like you should join title. Is he bought it. For some reason is amazing: some people going to switch apple music. Nearly gets to say happily, music entitle have equality audio, which is all he cares about so rights or maybe maybe your cause, some rebalancing and streaming, but you're also going to cause a bunch of sales of like neil young, vinyl or

cds or whatever everyone keeps trying to claim that cds are coming back, and I just promise you it's it's not true, but it tapes, it's a meme out there if you're in the hi fi world people want cds come back, but that's that rate for warner and ever in spain's engineer, to boost its physical. So where he makes way more money than streaming and then to potentially cause a wedge between spotify and apple music that has never existed before. If I was wondering who else can we get to quit this platform with like do one a week for like six months yeah, I I mean I, I am not confident enough in my knowledge of the music industry to know how plays out, but is not what does that outcome soundly somewhat plausible to me, like yeah sort of like I do you think if you're like an up and coming pop star, and you want to get way more famous than you are today and you're going to cut off spotify as an access point. I think that really does

You're right as I think that spotify has a huge imprint on the millennium goals and the Genji kids addison hard to really dominate the charts? If they just cannot find your music there? You know even amid all again happiness. Were there streaming rates? Are the only two really long term hold out among the pop stars? Were taylor, swift and beyond, say, and they got on board eventually right, like they essentially had really long windows, but they all said yes, It sort of tells me that, overall, the dynamics for these artists are such that they want to be on spotify, even if Joe rogan is there too. That is more true of establishments. Anyone's new artists are getting discovered on tiktok and I actually that's the dynamic here they're getting discovered on tiktok but, like I can't, like you, know, go for a run to their music on tech talk rate because all the checks, ok songs, only two and a half minutes, it's like you re a real

Surely this house? How long do you think I want run you like that that's assault. Conspiracy theory. For me, I I pay a lot of attention to that dynamic because I think whatever happens. The music industry tends to happen to the rest of the tech industry in short order. like. It is always a people, it's always drama, and because artist cycle so fast, there's, always a new cast of like unhappy characters. Taking stand, It's like the music industry. Just moves faster than any other industry and tat is always at the senator tobacco? The moderation fronts, I agree with the statement that I have just been puzzling over for a day. Now they say we have clear policies in place and we remove twenty thousand podcast epicycles since the beginning of a pandemic recovered misinformation. That's not to me why. How who pressed delete twenty five times is it? Is it a roomful of monkeys were typewriters dude? Is it like facebook,

essential contractors, it they said Our our in house team sometimes goes to outside experts who the outside experts, parker long like, have to listen the whole drifts. If this gets reported to ratify it, to listen to the full hour and a half awake, tell ship fab subsidy news before they get to this part. It just seems like the most challenging moderation problem. Is it he a hugely hugely challenging moderation problem, and I would know too that spotify the wit it is closing it. It's a very sort of outdated way of doing it like. If you look at what the big platforms are doing, I mean it, I mean specifically,

youtube twitter or facebook they're reporting, what they call prevalence, which is essentially of the bad stuff that was on the platform like how likely were people to actually see it, and you actually can't figure that out. If you know that spotify removed twenty thousand episodes right like what you actually want to know as well, how many people listen to those episodes? right it might. That number might not be much higher than twenty thousand, because I'm assuming that a lot of these, these things that were removed may have been created on agar, which a spot of eyes user generated content platform. Right like I would be surprised, if what if I had removed a lot of episodes of the content that it itself is producing so there's just so many question marks here spot of ass a share more or to build trust? How do they know what to remove like other people having to listen to everything? Is there a warehouse somewhere where people are being forced to listen to these horrible podcast? You can flagstaff on spotify.

but you can report stuff and my guess is: they does have a queue of reports that is handled by a mix of in house people and external contractors and their reviewing not to you, My guess: is there not doing a lot of proactive moderation? They might be doing some key words. Jeanne, you know, my guess is: if you go to upload, a pod casts a spot. If I and the It was just a bunch of like slurs, like that. Probably won't go so like my guess is that they have built like some of these a sort, more rudimentary systems, but you know again: is it doesn't matter? What does it matter? What the processes or what you're systems are, if, when your most famous employees says dear really need to get back. Sedated thirty may come into your house. Man he's not employ their very there's big sticklers about this. I think

now because of its exclusive people, think he's an employee yeah the way that the game, what staff as employees or whatever else want? So, let's drill down on this right, You know the podcast episodes in a world before giants were distributed among exclusive deals. They were delivered, the rss feeds, and I personally uncomfortable with really bad after being distributed over rss feeds if you're a bad person, and you want to listen terrible things and you want to search for those things and listen to them on your own time. I'm basically fine with that, because that's the price for me in a free society right, I think we're changes is a big corporation comes in and says we're going to give this our stamp of approval. We're going to pay a huge sum of money for it and then we're going to promote it across the various surfaces of our app now I know how aggressively it's spotify

promotes podcast to me, but it's also personalized. So I have no idea how aggressively it's showing Joe rogan to people. I can tell you it's not showy Joe rogan to me. It sees what I listen to. I think that just knows, but I think it's important to highlight some of those differences. Cause. I think some people listen to this and it'll. Just we go well here goes the left again with council, sure they're afraid of ideas that they are bad out like whatever, and it's like no we're talking about at what level do we want companies to intervene and be moderators- and I am saying, is that the level where are you I have decided to pay someone a huge sum of money and actively promote them, because then it's actually not just about what Joe rogan believes it's about. What spotify is actively supporting and that's what that's why? I think we're really talking about here. Let's just say, there's a lot of precedent in the entertainment industry for these companies being the moderators oftentimes like

you know disney's in an example of one who's, a moderator in a bad way, an end, then you know a lot of tv companies are putting these people on there. There's on ways and then like a wait, a minute actually scale back and they just cancel them like literally cancelled, because it's not it doesnt job with what they they want to do on their their network. So look, there's a ton of precedence to just be like actually know This isn't working out. You ve gone too far. We pay you so much money to be here exclusively and we look at it tv model there so much precedents and in its it really highlights the the cowardice think spotify in in this situation.

I think, you're exactly right. These are decisions that we ask entertainment companies to make all the time I mean, like god, help any in a movie star who accidently says that Taiwan is an independent country right leg, you're gonna be apologising for the rest of your your life. You know, I think the vaccines are much more consequential issue, so you know I mean, but look you know it mean like we have seen this story so many times of war where a platform once it both ways right, they want to say we're just a clearing house for content common, get what you want right. We're not going to put are some on this scale or if we do, it's only going to be based on what we think that you will like, and we want all of the riches that will come with with building that platform. But then

We also want to inhabit the role of a traditional publisher and we want to go in and support the kinds of content that we think are you know, are the most engaging and when they inhabit that second role, they never want to take the responsibility that other people who are in that role. You know in the media business, for example, sort of already play so you know like for for all that, I'm like running my mouth, I'm very confident. Spotify will figure this out eventually, like I think these. This is just a kind of a growing pains thing. You know when spotify, ojo road and I had a long conversation with with Neckcloth who was then running hot pot for europe magazine and just kind of like predicted that these dynamics we're we're gonna happen. I didn't predict mule young, but it's like conflict is coming and like and conflict will be resolved when you, You start to answer some of the questions that were bringing up on on this podcast, so you know I wish thought if I had to do some of this stuff a little sooner,

Am I wish that they would give us better answers are giving us today, but in my experience most platforms do get there eventually we'll see. I think this has, if you assume- and I think assumption- that the twenty thousand episodes is deleted are mostly user generated content uploaded to anchor is there not policing individual rss feeds that give ingesting spotify, which is frankly how we in just or chauvinist what, if I, like, I don't know, you, like a sitting around with this time on the big red button waiting to delete this for the? If he years will be a hell of a story so Daniel leg, I mean I'd, be great, but to do anything like that, its scale they have to build a huge team to do it. Eventually, those people are gonna. Do you have to put up jobless thing like you, can't even find a job listings? Rightly fever, I hire the people and do the work and become a moderation company and, like you

so. It is a great example that their moderation company into the point now, where they fund a court system This is the only way to do this fairly is an independent judy. theory that we have created- and it's like what this is nuts, but it might also just the end of the road for everyone, and they all have to publish the rules. but it's really unfair to participate in a platform that will moderate you and delete your shit. If you don't even know the rules, that platform expects you to follow its true. I like, and I agree with that, but to be a little bit glib spot. Haven't he's pot cast a spot a five hour? Is it ten? Is it twenty, as at thirty we're talking about something that fits unlike two pages of a google doc is basically like the number of shows that I think the spot a file is

producing that's actually an extremely manageable content, moderation that that's basically asking how does VOX media moderate what VOX media produces like? That is the scale of the challenge that spotify actually has and they eft it up man. Well, it's a it's a lot like netflix and I think it's netflix with the the whole thing with Dave chappelle the same situation of like oh no, we can't moderate and it's like no you're, not facebook, you're you're, an entertainment company. You have commissioned this person to make this product. You can absolutely say, apps actually like if I would write a blog four thousand words on why I love eating meal. Has every right to Billy, actually alex know we're not gonna published that on the vote. Eight thousand words. Eight that said shit let's get to twelve, but like

with you. Have they have that right and they keep acting like? Oh, no, no, you know it's just like facebook know: you're, not facebook, just your technology company, but you're, not facebook mean facebook. That's another whole other story of like their whole publishing thing, but you are very fundamentally an entertainment company and you have every you're entirely within your right, presumably contractually to to stop this, and instead there like, who can it who can do it? Who now you can Yeah and, like you know here here, we are getting into a debate over free speech which which can get real. tedious and it's impossible, and it's obviously you know very unsatisfying, I'm sure I am so

price as a journalist who grew up very much in that free speech, tradition at how far we are moving away to like actually like we do want to get rid of a lot of speech. We're seeing it from the right right now. Crawl across is an elementary school districts that, like want to ban. You, know a wonderful literature about like the holocaust and like slavery and everything, and so I feel like I I do want to stand up for platforms that want you welcome a wide variety of use, including views that I find upsetting. You know that lets her thing, but at the same I am I doing there to sort of a handful of issues where I am going to judge you for what you promote public health and safety is as just at the top of the list. For me, you just said: platforms are published things, even if you don't support them really make cultural you're on sub stack. That's an obvious reference to some stack, which published a little moderation manifesto this week. I don't know if they knew neil young was going to get into a fight with spotify, but certainly these things lined up.

perfectly for you to write a sparkling issue of some sectors like look on all no holds barred we were not in what you do hate speech a bar from that, like we think the answer is. You know that everything on this platform is a direct relationship between you and the writer weed. Trust writers who chaucer audiences have at that, That's fine! Yet some site, like takes a cot, I think there's a little bit of at the end of it. Like what, if the, what, if the most we paid writer and some sectors like now thinks you're. the eu is determined by a race, for example, that is true right now, like There's there's a lot of comfortability there, but I get it from that perspective, I think, on the other perspective, it's like there's just not a lot of competition for these platforms. I think the the heart of like the subsec thing is well. If you don't like, you could just not pay them and you can pay another sub stacker in the that feels competitive in a way that the internet is very good at making real competitive? If you

leave spotify eager apple music, which probably as the exact same set of restrictions. maybe even more knowing apple, and then you get into do. They want to censor the music industry, which we ought to about a which is the most problematic and, like I grew up in the nineties, with tipper gore. Putting parental advisory labels on cds, sam goody, which I thought ridiculous, when I was younger, I still think is ridiculous. Like I am with you, I think it's a very odd time for speech in america, but here it's like they're, just paying the money in that that changes. The dynamic in a real way, I think it's different conversations about speech like I am with you on an entrepreneur and obviously like saying. Oh, you need to go shut this down as a slippery slope, because then you have disney being like whoa gay people No, no, they don't appear and marvel films until we feel their marketable in china. Lake

until several years later, when we say that that person that one guy in the geographical lays an unnamed crying like it's even think that that's obviously like a fuel a little bad for just be like yeah shut him down spot a five, but at the same time lake I get really annoyed with their their aggressive. We don't know what to do. There is no precedent share when they are absolutely is a lot of precedents on on both from the technology side and from the entertainment side for solutions, and it's always going to be tricky because we don't want to be you know you don't would be tick. Tock, saying lesbians exist in the hashtags evincing and week we turned on the wrong switch again and which happens consistently, but we

Also, don't want them saying a lot of other, really bad hashtags and late. They just need to stop washing their hands the situation. They need to take a stand one way or the other, and right now, they're they're, taking Joe rogan side, but also, unlike the lame sway, pass Yeah, I think, there's like most of us is like impression base because I live. I really is not wanted to talk to me about any of this stuff, but I feel like for the past Couple years, their stance whenever there has been a controversy, has sorted bed like give it a day. It will pass like this will blow over you know, every once in a while Jos can say something a little cuckoo, but we warm weather the storm and we can sort of proceed business. As usual, and the reason I think the neil young thing was a big deal

was. I think this shows that there, like the pressure, is going to escalate right, like it's not going to be a little bump little bump, but, like everything, is basically chill like it's going to be asked leading pressure on them to not necessarily dump rogan but to publish some publishing standards right and enforce them you know it's neil. I brought up subset earlier and I think what spotify actually believes spiritually way closer to what sub stack posted yesterday than what spotify aside so far, because what sums said was lake. We don't want to police misinformation because we don't think it works like we. I think it's helpful to crack down on misinformation. Misinformation is going to be out there whatever, and I do think that sub stack sort of went overboard trying to wash their hands of that subject, but I think it's reasonable for a platform to say in some cases

We are just not going to bother to try to go after this step based on the kind of tech platform we are and based on. The way that people get content from us right, like substance, is a tool that writers pay to use right. More often that it is the opposite. So, like substance is a service provider generally, it's like we dont pressure, payment processors or domain hose too much when it comes to questions of content moderation because again, most of us be like, while the price of living in, society is a bunch of people make money, and verbal ways and post stupid stuff on the internet. Alright, here's my bold prediction for for all of this, and I said the suitcase last night next to all of this is pat mcafee that who I listen to, especially as aaron rodgers was on a show every tuesday who just sound like one hundred and forty million dollar sponsorship. Within with vandal gambling company. Any he his stuffs on rss just streams. I do he got his bag from sponsorship.

I could see Joe rogan being like cause during definitely that bag from company. I can see me like this is dumb. I hate spotify, actually, carbonate diverge has reported that guess get a smaller bump for appearing on my show, where one exclusive than before my I is declining emanate, just like, pay out my deal and I dunno jamie foxes. Doing mgm adds at the fire. energy and you got some money for me and he bales any reclaim Wait, that's a that's a winning move for him. So that's my prediction is that he takes a bag from one of the gambling companies and just goes independent again, and I think that might be a good outcome right like again, if people to listen to Joe rogan like listen to Joe rogan right, I come at this from the perspective of as a paying spotify customer and somebody who worries about what the largest platforms promote to audiences of

for the millions of people, and I feel, like things, are a little bit easier for me. Spotify is not promoting antibiotics content and its app but if Joe wants to let go run, is rss feed from his ranch and texas and take like gambling money to do it. I am no issue with that. That's a gambling sports gambling and criminal gambling will solve every problem in america at once. We have gone way over casey. Thank you for coming on. I'd have to know While we have been talking apple earnings apple made all of the money in the world biggest quarter, in its largest rebellion profit I thought this was the one when it was going to break and they were going to have to go dip into their savings just to make it through the next quarter. Anyway. Thirty four point: six billion in profits up twenty percent from last year. The iphone was the big growth growth engine as always, and then the macs are doing great. So that's apple earnings, it literally. While we are talking about this crossing

then, TIM cook is talking, is very proud of his company. In cases where Harrington cook was proud of apple, I mean We have to say apple, famously successful companies, there's rate. If you're running that company you're having a good day, it's it's always party over there in the spaceship, we have gone way over there, When listening you can treated us casey is case. Newton Alex's out Alex each trans. Tom is at someone I'm at reckless I want to call it a couple of stories, Becca put out a full frame, video, which is amazing about how to take better night photos and astro photos with the pixel, the iphone or any camera. It is just the funniest video. I highly recommend it. We have big future at suzy, thunder who's like a forgotten hacker figure from the seventies, that's great and then Mckenna actually interviewed Amy Klobuchar about the antitrust bills. Great interview really great photos to actually check that out. It's on the site decoder! Next week, ceo of career karma,

reuben harris who is super fun to talk to susquehanna, to say that's it. I dunno the hey, I'm ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our price. do not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of men, unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. It meant mobile dot com, slash switch new activation and prompt payment for three month. Plan required taxes in these extra additional restrictions apply seem at mobiles outcome for full terms.