This oregon, the verge asked Loren Grush joins us to talk about the big space x, launch. We talked to casey newton, but facebook's, all controversial moderation decisions then mix targets, gadgets, sent us arc, atrium act the cap's while we ve forty talking up unabridged ass now, as vice chair and president of microsoft, brags math frightened centre to some of the most important developments in technology today and on his podcast tools and weapons. He will ask us to share how that will affect us today. Guests include businessmen. Strive must see why microsoft ceo, such an adela and journalist karras, wisher season, two of tools and weapons with

Brad smith is now streaming wherever you get. Your podcasts am ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of mint, unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. It mint mobile dot com, slash, switch new activation, an upfront payment for three months Required taxes in these extra additional restrictions apply seem at levels outcome for full terms. Hello and welcome to the british as the flagship podcast of the VOX media podcast situation. That's how I feel that everything is not moment for time and exploit new, I'm your friend did about his here. Also, your friend, we got

big show this week warned russia's going to join us to talk about the historic spacex crew dragon launch, and space generally, what space very busy casey newton is going to join us to talk about with moderation, so I will use it It's about, obviously with the protests with trams. Various There's a lot of activity there there's some late audio from mark Zuckerberg when unpack that in the end dieter our action, software gadgets, yeah, there's some gadget users. We for him due at the end, the show I wanna start as always with some updates on the pandemic, adding it's gonna combo platter. There bigger news in the world this week. I think listeners know that In other words, we want to vote on that stuff, as much as we can but also provide the escape that ask us to provide sized want to give the updates on both a pandemic and some coverage of the protests either? the country now, so it is week, twelve twelve weeks since donald trump, I missed the world a website where you can go it tested

the turn of ours must keep counting? I'm assuming its second happen, I will say a lot of states have built their own testing. practices but the gnat nationwide apparatus that I think we will need to manage the pandemic and they are all of us. forward so that their twelve weeks since then trump is also insisting that we cut ties the world health organization. It's big deal you can read about that on the site. Some of them second order effects of the kind of irish the pandemic. We keep talking about Zoah, chauffeur, apiece rascal bite flight, which is tech. Workers moving at a same cisco there's a lot of, I think, reported on antipathy towards san francisco from the big tech worker community and now companies are google, facebook, our working from home or moving so from on policies. People are going to leave sanctions, So it's really interesting piece in questionnaire check that out from zoe monica chain wrote a piece for us. We have actually been tracking since the very being began. Being sort of a pandemic, which is supply chains for laptops

So will you have a skyrocketing demands, as people are working from home? Is kids are learning from home and then supply constraints? Because The supply chains and china have went dark for, while, in those curves, I think have started, hits it's really how to buy laptop now. Monica dungeon that nickel, what's rain, are excellent health reporter recipes. tell her health. There is a lot of before the pandemic it. There is a lot of excitement about tell a health. I would say that working from home doctors are doing more telemedicine, it turns there are some consequences, a tall medicine, one of which, importantly, is that if you dont speak english in this country, it is harder to get better medical care remotely check out from the call in this on to me, one of the more. I think we think of you see here- is something happened. The internet without consequence, which aims vincent talk to network engineers in the uk who are being harassed and attacked because the five conspiracy, theory around the current virus,

There's hundreds of incidents of abuse towards his engine. as has been reported, he actually toxins engineers, that's a great peace, can check that out. It s, some stuff I want to and our coverage, my favorite one, is at cape heart fans. Have been overwhelming the aps. The police are using, particularly in dallas to attribute The protests with fan fain cans of came up, which is amazing, and then on a more serious note, the combination of the protests and the pandemic, allowing a lot of you, are expecting the pandemic to get worse because the protests virus spreading at worst, because a protest nicole has great piece about how there are larger, threats to health than the protests personally use of tear gas, particularly the underline racial dynamics that have made both the pandemic and the protests bigger than you would otherwise hope. So We have a lot of coverage beyond that. That's some stuff! I want to call out lets. You all know that we have the coverage of that stuff on the site,

we know that our audience once a sock when all the other things too so is always start there the site to so much. I coverage there. We are really focused on it. We are they focused and covers the protesters, are an immense number of Virgil he's inside of the protests and who gets the videos who gets china videos. How do we use are operating tc radically, they about swatting, which is a very common harassment tactic that is built around the notion that the police will condemn violence, america. So there are just multiple, multiple angles and the things that we cover all the time. That's all on the site. Okay, there is a rocket launch, though Lauren you're, here hi Lauren, hi how's it going you know it's best is they expected learn. You should write a piece about rocket launchers, in the broader context in how they play together. I want to that bullet start at the start, Crew dragon launched historic event. Tell us about it. Yes, It really is a launch. I mean, depending on how you want to set the meaning,

starting line could be, you could say, it's been six years in their wake in a decade and making our relations space eggs first formed. You know ten years ago. It was the first time that space eggs actually launched people. All too or bet there, it's been their express purpose since they were formed and it was also a big deal. for nasa? It's the first time in nearly a decade that people have launched from the? U s since the end of the shuttle. graham to orbit and also the first time that a private company up like a purely private vehicle, sent people too so there are a lot of a first associated with this large is why it was a really big deal for a lot of people in the space community What's so it's just that, first of a private company. Just how does the interaction between spacex the nasa work here, rather obviously nasa astronauts. Are they just like this calling for neuber like how does that relationship? I mean you job, but that is

kind of what nasa was going for with this program. So it's really important to note that nasa has always used contractors to build it stuff. The shuttle was built by contractors at the saturn five rocket built by tractors the main differences that NASA always hide key oversight and input in the dust, and and development process. So said, knew everything that was going on. There are constantly checking, and with the contractors and making sure you know that they had a voice in this process. and then once the vehicles were done, nasa owned and operated them. It was not really a commercial transaction. It was the government in charge of these processes with this programme. The commercial crew program that the crew dragon launched for the idea was alright. Let's take nasa a little bit out of that process. You know I'll, be the customer in this scenario and they're gonna pay they're gonna put in some money for development, so they gave me, gave space

partial money for to develop the crew dragon, but in reality they're the ones that are going to be like. I want to pay a ticket to ride my or to put it ash not on your vehicle you're, going to be in charge design you're going, be in charge of production, you're gonna be in charge of testing and the you're gonna own and operate that vehicle when it's done, there's some. I if you ve, read my are on the verge our com there, so you know new wants with that cause. Nasa was really involved with the process. You know cause when you launch humans it. You know on a whole new, standard for the agency like they are, we sure pride and joy for the country. So whether or not this was a purely commercial transaction is up for debate but it was definitely very different than the way nasa used to do things, and I think, for all intents and purposes we can say this was a commercial vehicle, as opposed to the other vehicles that nazism

in the past with humans. So my big question here like is, is this: nasa if it like, headed struthers and could get whatever budgeted wanted on a congress would want to do or they like shifting their entire, like organization to be no contract? in licensing from outside private companies and just buying tickets on ships instead of building the ships themselves by contractors or whatever. Is that how nasa like watts, where going forward, or is it a thing that they have to do because they can't get the funding to build their own damn rockets? I think it's satisfaction an end. It's a little more nuanced. You know, like you said you know, NASA's budget is limited, not in the cold war anymore. So we're not getting these huge increases for the nasa budget, like they did during the APOLLO program that sent humans to the moon so yeah. They do have they face this reality. ok. If we want to do these big, bold things in space, let's let the private sector take over these things,

we ve been doing for years and years like sending people to lower earth orbit. That's that's something we ve been doing for fifty as we can. We know how to do that. So it's like ok, nasa's, gonna, give that to the private sector, then, at the same time stimulate the private sector because that they own these vehicles, now it's not that's, not nasa's vehicle at space, excess vehicles, so they could potentially use it. make their own market later on by selling it to tourists or sign to private citizens, and then NASA can take the rest of the money that it does get from congress and put it into these like very the ambitious programmes, notably right. Now, that's going back to the moon with this artemus programme. So it's like. Ok, you know we're gonna, get a cheap investment, cheap tickets to space, basically for astronauts, while we spend

big bucks on these other programs and do more ambitious things so that commercial crew program it's been years in the making right yeah, so the the contracts to spacex and we shouldn't shouldn't forget boeing is also part of this program, spacex just as the first one to launch crew, but there's two companies spacex and boeing. They got their contracts in two thousand and fourteen to start building and developing these vehicles and start testing them. So it's been six years since those contracts, but really it's been a decade of nasa testing out this process because it didn't start with commercial crew. It started with commercial cargo, so they tried this new method with their like. Ok, let's have the private sector since applies to the international space station like we know how to launch crap in space

basically like that something we ve been doing for years. We can. We can trust the space industry to pick pick that up and do that for us. We don't need to be in charge of that anymore, and so it started with the cargo is called the cots programme and then that that model this caught, that Starting model that I was talking about was transformed during the obama administration into the commercial crew program. To so we're like okay, we're going to take a step up from cargo, we're going to actually launch people this way. So this rocket that launched with a true dragon capsule on board that is space falcon nine. That's the of the familiar rocket right, yeah. What was it? Was there a process to adapt that rocket to change it any way or do they? Just put the capsule: on top, I mean, let's just say that the falcon nine got way more scrutiny. that way every few now, just because we were putting people on this and there was, there is actually some car

mercy that it's not even around anymore, but it was for a while during this development, because spacex is a very different policy than they did during the shuttle about how it loads the vehicle with propellant. So a lot of aerospace experts prefer that the vehicle is fuelled before ashen is getting bored because feeling is considered a dangerous event, and you know that that's not a bad argument. I mean actually of space. Acts are falconer rocket exploded during a while it was being fuelled on the ground once during a ground test. So there is some president for being a little nervous during the feeling, but instead spacex alikes to fuel its rockets after the astronauts have gotten on board already

and there was a lot of controversy over that decision. Nasa demanded that spacex, you know prove that this process was safe by doing it a number of times. Prior to this launch and demonstrating that you know it wasn't going to destroy the rocket, but while people were on board and also there are, there are tons of other safety measures put in place to the crew dragon, for instance, has an abort capability that the space shuttle didn't even have. So if the falcon nine were to have some kind of failure during flight there's actually thrusters inside the crew dragon, that can lift the capsule up and away from that rocket and carry the astronauts to safety. So there's all these redundancies in place, because now so it was very you know protective of his actions. It's in there will continue to be protected by their ashura, so yeah, the volga nine got a lot of eyes on it during this entire development in an hour. So this argument is, is famous for being reusable. We ve watched at land, this particular

how can I landed on it on a drowned ship was a new one right. I just a simple You want to use a new one for the astronauts yeah, but it's funny that you say it like it didn't even take that long, I saw some something that nasa is already giving the ok of spacex using a used rocket for future crew. actions. I feel like we're going to have to move away from the phrasing used rocket like and sounds like they're going to get like an eighty nine celica like blasted off into space like it's going to refurbish it or, let's just say I get in trouble when I say that word years, because they didn't that they're not pleased with me. They want they like previously flown to write proven as the the industry to fight so get one that's way about previously flown also sounds like you're buying like a certified used car, africa generally used rocket in an as watching the stream a thing that struck me is there are a lot of shots of spacex in hawthorne

operating the rocket. Not the sort of staff nasa mission control that you think of, but it still took off kennedy switched on. How does that dynamic work? Yes, so this lunch was really kind of a team effort from multiple different sides. It included like mission control, was in pattern because this was a space ex launch so shots when they were in charge of the launch, and they were the ones in charge of communicating with the crew while their flying to the international space station. At the same time you had crew, or you had people and mission control at kennedy, space owner who were operating the ground systems and just making sure that you know that Hush happened, ok, and then you also people at johnson spaceliner they're, the ones in charge of the international space station. So once they got to the internet, space station. There was a lot of coordinating between hawthorn and J c to make sure that process went smoothly.

So now that criterion is dark. With the ice ass who's in charge of it Johnson's mates areas in charge of operating. I'm assuming there are still very much in contact with space eggs throughout this process, especially because we need to find out when the astronauts are coming home, We don't know when they're coming home yet, but nasa is going to make that determination a couple weeks. we'll get handed over back to spacex when they come home like what's the plan there yet enjoy. I mean it's still gonna to be a con like a very collaborative process, but really that's the point of this whole thing is space excess in charge, and so they are in charge of the crew dragon and its traffic you know in and how it flies through space. What would you say they don't know when they're coming home? One of them is that they don't know inside of a window specifically or europe.

Up there until we decide you come home, so this was supposed to be a quick trip. Really. I think it was supposed to last like a week or two originally cause. It was just supposed to be a test. It would just be like: can I get to the station? Can they can it survive on the station for a little bit and kind of come home? The problem was the commercial crew program like any space well the program suffered, it's fair share of delays, and originally these launches were supposed to have in two thousand and seventeen, obviously three years later and so the it was our only other option to get to the space station was the russian soyuz rocket. We've been paying the russians to put astronauts on those vehicles for the last decade and our seats were running out with them as the delay

is continued with commercial crew and so right now, they've only well before these two astronauts launch. We only had one person, one american on the international space station and that's a really low number. We usually like to have more than that, so it was like okay, we don't have a lot of people the space station. Why don't? We keep bob and doug the two astronauts up there for an extended period of time, so they can get some work done because they need to do maintenance, there's possibly some spacewalks. They might have to do on the outside of the space station and then once they get that work done, we'll make a determination of when they can come home. But the max amount of time that they can say up there is really dependent on the solar panels on the crew dragon. Apparently, the and atmosphere there's a thin atmosphere in space where they're at right now and that degree that's degrading the solar panels over time, so they're trying to get a better understanding of how

long that process last, but it it, I think the max for now is they can stay up there for four months and then come home, but we'll we'll find out. I guess in the in the coming weeks the idea that there's like a limited number of seats, that we can lease from brush so use, is also it's like so much This is just weird like that. The way got space like arriving at a group on from our seats on the next pay such rockets. At some point, they ran on it tickets like there's a coupon book for like it's very strange well to be fair. That was a conscious decision. Nasa didn't want to continue paying russia and if they wanted to eventually transfer full time to these commercial vehicles, so the expectation was we are going to stop purchasing these soyuz seats so that the commercial crew program could continue, but they actually purchase one more like safety seat on the soyuz for this fall. So there's actually going to be.

The american is kate, rubins who's going to launch this fall on a soyuz, but now that we're going forward, the idea is we're going to stop paying the russians tickets and we're going to trade seats on our vehicles. So we could still we'll still have americans flying on. This way is, but we could potentially have russian cosmonauts on the crew in our ongoing vehicles as well when creating and leaves the station whenever leaves, how does it come back? What's the mechanism false your atmosphere. Teach yields doesn't burn up parachute like standards, these appalling I've. Surely engineers will tell you there's quite or than that, but that is actually you know they have protections in place so that the crew dragon, you know, stays intact. While it comes back through the atmosphere and yet they have a suite of four parachute said, deploy and the new splash down in the atlantic ocean near Florida, where they'll be recovered by a space ex recovery there

well that will take the crew and the capsule both to shore and is the capsule reusable. It is not at the moment, but I believe that is something that is in the works. The problem is the ocean. You know one thing once they had the water, that's all waters really corrosive and it does a lot of damage to the vehicle, but I think they are working on ways to make it reuse in fact, the council itself You watch the stream. You see them they're just like using. Hush screens. Here we gotta talk about this I mean I just I understand like there's a it's me. They computerized and like to some extent, there's like along for the ride but like are theirs

The tesla tusk touch screens in there did he aunt. Was he just like pull him out of a model? Three and let's go? Is it hardened like? How does that work? I do not know the origin of the types I did get. I did get to interact with them a bit when I went to hawthorne once and they were showing off the interface and I feel like the touchscreens honestly are the biggest they're, the ones that sent the biggest shock waves through the space community, because if you look at the space shuttle console it's like hundreds of switches of gadgets joysticks, you know it looks like a cockpit, and this really looks like you know, you're, like you, said, a tesla interface and even Doug Hurley. One of the astronauts mentioned that

it was kind of jarring for him at first cause, they're, both pilots, and so there very used to being able to have this active control was something they can grab onto, but he said after a while, you know it became pretty easy to control, and I mean it looks pretty great. Actually, it hasn't been the same. You know when we were watching it. Cause like this makes me feel like we're in the twenty first century, cause it really all they did to fly. The dragon was press. You know, like the translational movement on the screen, or they needed to rotate. They have that button for two and they can do that with their gloves on with their spacesuits or they can do with their lives. new. I just I want you to know that the interface for these touch screens is written in javascript onto of linux and chromium. I saw we I'd say. I saw a tweet from like a google engineer, saying that I sent it to lord in trans, like we ve known this free, because I thought I had some news- I mean that's incredible

presumably there's more redundant, the rest sextet or c4 plus is just like the dead. The gooey is there in an assessment. suits, were also designed by space acts. That was like a big reveal. There's there's an element of this word ilan made it look cool. Well, you can tell that he made it look cool. Is that seal honours outlook of commercial crew like starling worker school and bowing does I mean I think this our lawyer looks cool, but there don't there definitely very different subjects and the star liner looks more like a typical like old space vehicle. It's gotta standard, you know, switches and buttons and not sad to say, spacex did have to put buttons and their they'd there some things that they had to actually bearing out of the interface there's, also a if I recall correctly, there's a huge burden that just as in jack tippit end like that is, if the ash you're not spill, and something that we are not seeing, they can just grab that in and take the crew dragon. After that,

can. I be, I think, if you listen to you on euro over the years when he talks about space, he's always very he'd, just places a lot of emphasis on the aesthetic- and I think, that's very clear, with his rockets to it's like he. He wants people to think that space is cool, and so a lot of that goes into the design part of the process so right before launch happened, there was a controversy nasa where the head of humans left laughed people through that, because I think still just like an unresolved question, which what is going on with this entire programme, Doesnt have there's nobody in charge of it right now, thou pretty wild. I did not see that coming at all yeah, so the associate administrator for human exploration, human space exploration, he suddenly resigned a week before the launch, everyone was free.

Now there are thinking, oh my god. He knows some Dana valentine agnes, like what is he not telling us, but I actually spoke, was dug douglas, whereas his name and it's just something any care reveal. He said he took a risk at nasa, there's some rumours that it has to do with them, contracts they gave out regarding the human lunar landers that their building. Basically, he couldn't tell me what it was, but he said it was a hundred percent, nothing to do with the crew dragon mission. It had to do with them decision he made that must have violated some rules and then he had to resign over it. So the reason I question is it seems big as nasa moves towards us. More commercial model more private companies involved in space going to be many more opportunities for bad, tracking processes or backed ordeals has

Disaster ready, for that is an organization to be a customer like that I don't know I think we're gonna find out. I think it is a one other thing that I am concerned about. Two and a lot of people have been concerned about during this process is transparency and I commend spacex. They ve been very transparent for a lot of this process, but when you or a private company. You don't have to sit. You don't have to tell us everything. You know and a lot of the times like we, we were getting information because we had to pry it out of them and not just spacex but boeing to like it was it. Sometimes. We were like wait. Why didn't we? Why are we just hearing about this now? You know like we would hear about testing failures, another thing boeing had a software glitch that we didn't know about, we knew there was one software glitch on their first uncrewed test flight. There is a second software glitch and we didn't find about find out about it until

Some of us were listening in on a public meeting like a safety panel meeting and they disclosed it there, but we they had known about it since the flight and they and it took them months to tell us so you would Bowing we'd know better than to hide a software. If they didn't what they really did not want to talk about it cuts both ways like also. You would think that boeing definitely hide software glitch, it's yeah that that was nice, but yeah. So I'm not I'm not pointing to anything pretty particularly egregious. I just think that moving forward with nasa is doing these kinds of deals, and we have there are astronauts right like we paid for them to go to space with our astronauts on those vehicles. I do have concerns about private companies taking that over just in terms of information, but I guess we'll

we'll see how the companies you know continue to talk to us moving forward. Can I tell you I watched this on it. I watched launching a zune with my niece and nephew, and we, like my nephew. Called my mom and cities wash this and my mom called me it's an hour she asked was We pay the astronauts right I like nuts, and what is yours just like not cleared or issues that not volunteers? Are they it's so dangerous? Nothing, that's that yeah they do allow it. I just think space flight has been out of like launching americans to space for american soil has just been out of the public consciousness for nine years. It's like amazing how much we have to re learns on the basics. I mean you know because you're, my boss, but leg how many people do you think in your sphere, no that we ve been launching from Kazakhstan this whole time. Yet I think zero, zero people yeah exactly

you time boeing, but they have the star liner. What is the status of star liner mexico diagnosis Amendment about china go faster so, engineer earlier. There uncrooked they had so both of these companies did unglued test flights of their vehicles. Last year a space axes went flawlessly and then boeing's not so like ice like I mention they had a software glitch once the star liner was deployed from its rocket and it proved did its engines from burning at the right time, and so I didn't get into their right orbit. It was supposed to in order to meet up with the space station, which is kind of big deal, because the entire point of these vehicles is to take astronauts to the space station. And to bring it home early. We found out about those other software glitch that they actually corrected and but if they had- and it could have been a problem when they came through the atmosphere. So a lot of problems associated with that launch so Bowing was like you know where we're going to do it again,

their aiming for this fall to do another unclear test bite of star liner and then once that is deemed successful, then they will do a crude mission like the one that space existing how much like the space community, how much best practices sharing of information? Do companies like boeing in space ex do like we about code and like going as bad in spacex is going flawlessly. If you met that the tech companies are usually cover. Wake up on Google. Don't talk a lot right like samson phones, explode and apples? I told you, so they don't help them. This seems like a differ so the stakes different market that we are creating our communication back and forth between all these companies, their agencies try to make it work better. Flying know that space access pre may make things open source for a lot of their

yeah. I don't know about communication between the companies themselves, but I do know that nasa definitely shares a lot of it's information and testing, because nasa has years and years of you know, testing data that they can. You know provide is like a gift to these companies, so I know that they definitely worked with I sat on a lot of those things and it almost gave them no one, not even almost a gave them a leg up in the development process, because abandoned start from scratch, they would have had to do a lot of that testing on their own to begin. What so, I know that nasa has been a very vital resource in that treatment for sure in or other companies beyond spacex in boeing that my protest paid at this level is gonna, be a market have to kind of big companies, is getting a market to companies. For now there is another company, the sierra nevada corporation, that also bid for the original contracts and commercial crew. They

I have this like really adorable little space plane. That looks like a mini space shuttle. That's designed to fly on top of rockets and they're developing actually to send it to the space station with cargo, but they say it can also be used to carry humans if just design the right way, so that is also potentially coming, but for now spacex and are the ones for this. is this year in about a space company this year in about a beer company. That's really what I'm thinking here. It is not that, and that alone I just see now like Jeff phases. Like while my internet bookstore is going great and start a rocket company? It's a path that people take. If you want to feel better about it, my first inclination was the the the computer games company ceo, yeah from like the eighties, so I guess that's where I live. Alright, I'd be remiss if we let you go without asking about elon, okay, what is

current status of elon musk last, I checked teeth that he was going to take some time off twitter and then he that I guess, lasted a total like less than twenty four, so he's back, and he is suggesting that Jeff Bezos break up amazon because it is a monopoly because it would not publish. a contrary and covered nineteen book from sense. You want to break up the bookstore for a minute of EU us to punish the bookstore accents. Look! I'm sympathetic to it I think the bookstore had still just do whatever it was best behaviour for the launch, like he was there to suit right apart, I was there and they play macho man that was very strange, pugwash, remember those people or the president was like wash in Iraq. It was you like on his best behaviour yeah. I think he was a composer oh, very well, and I think that a parts I enjoyed the most were when they everyone realises that the level of importance of this launch and it really kind of heads

because these two men that they launch our dads and we'd I'll have we got to see them interact with their children when they both laughed like that was probably most emotional part for me. Was saying goodbye to their sons and their wives, who are both astronauts. I might add and so elon was very clear. He's like it's important for us to bring these people home to their families, and I think him being a dad. You know that resonated with him especially interested strikes me is there's a elan character that we see on twitter. That runs. la animals spacex ilan character, who seem very different person. I think I I have the better end of the deal in the terms of the eu and sean and a devil and an angel. Well, here's why it's because spacex is a private company and also spacex inspires a lot of ah right, you know and they they get their fair share of criticism,

of course, but it has a lot of fans and I think he geeks out a lot talking about space no and so that that shines through when he's on his when he has a space ex, had is there an element to this. I think whether some slot actually asked liz about this when she was on the last time. sexier gwen shotwell like run spacex. Basically, there is not that kind of character tests but she is very much sort of in the background. Do you see we're taking a more public role being a more public face as commercial crew ramps up. I don't think so. I think that's very much their dynamic as eli the one out in the world and an he's kind of almost become the like pr la hague abed. The company you know, like his tweets, often are like they'll make news about the things that space x is working on. You know that a lot of the times, and I reporting I'm just going through his twitter page and point out the stuff that he says because that

where we learn. A lot of the new developments are like one, at least after their working on gwen when was definitely a part of a lot of the press coverage for sure she was doing press conferences before this, but I think her job is definitely being needed, the rock of the company and being the leader that is doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes that we don't see. The magician really interesting dynamic is that there is not a pair well to her tesla in so tests. I just feel like spacex cannot be a chaotic company like it. It just cannot be where tesla is like free to be whatever it is large like when you, when you have these government contracts it takes.

So a whole new level. You know- and we also saw the consequences of when chaos is introduced into space x. You know with you on smoking pie and NASA did a review of the company's safety culture. You know that has major consequences because of the level of work that they do yeah. I just don't think, there's time for chaos when missed the spacex, because of just that, what they're doing and who they're launching yeah. I want to end with your op ed. He wrote an op ed about how this was supposed to be a shining moment of american unity, but it's obviously happening it's the backdrop of the protests of incredible focus on police brutality in this country. Tell us like is that an resonating, as you said, something to me that shrilly effectively is the space communities in a bubble. Is that bubble starting the breakdown help sal

since that idea- and I think, if you talk to a lot of reporters, you report on space- is that the space world does not want to admit that there are problems they want to just continue with their work, and they wanted to celebrate this launch as Nothing was going on and look I understand I am empathetic sit out because I cannot imagine the countless amount of ours that people spent on this launch, but at the same time, if they really want people be united to watch a space launch. They have to acknowledge that there, are major injustices happening on the below, and I think that that silence in that and that, what's the word, they just tried to ram through a you know, as if nothing was going on they're not going to change their plans are not going to make any kind of adjustments. They're just going to say that this is you know this is gonna, be a hopeful launching a a thing of unity, but

he's, not gonna work when space is a very it still very exclusive. It still expensive and also I dont think a lot of people feel like it's for them. You know unless you're, rich or white when a man, and so I just think that the space world really needs to take a deep look and say: okay, if we really want people to be involved and excited about what we're doing, we need to work here on the ground to fix season justices and make sure that we are actively helping the world and making things more equal, and then people will feel like they're invited to these kinds of as everyone has said himself like you were saying about design. He wants you to be inspired by the launches he wants in the fields. of are adding to me if you I feel that sense of awe and then you have no opportunities to act on it to build a career to participate.

It is actually we've done something wrong We have made some mistake if there are kids across the country who feel that sense of wonder and then they are blocked from the opportunity to participate, because whatever structural problems we have- that is and Obvious mistake: I think, for the space community say this is the pipeline we need, percent and the end of the space should want as many bright and amazing people to come and work for them as possible, and that means committing to fixing these structural problems here on earth, and I I I've been seeing some commitments to that eke out from this basic community over time. It still just feels They just want to keep on doing their work and not really address that. So I hope that changes, but I think we should point to something that was really powerful when I saw it more in lyons, is a space ex engineer who does these launch live streams and she is

back and she was prominently featured on the live stream. During the ass, a mission and caught the attention of a young black girl whose mom tweeted out you know who how can we find this girl because now, My daughter feels like she can become a rocket scientist. I think that just so compelling that's that's what we need that kind of that kind of stuff and more is what the space role should be focused on One thing you noted in your piece was right: now: corporate amerika is going through a frenzy of brand statements, The protests saying this for black lives matter not really seen that same sort of validation from major space company. that started to change like eyes at its bit. Slowly, eking out a company virgin orbit put our really great saint met pretty early on also blue origin, put our statement. I saw yesterday so so there is more, and these pet companies are probably gonna, be mad, that I did not to point them, but I,

seen it, and I hope that it just is a snowball effect and not it keeps going and that this end and then it doesn't stop, or to be more than just statements like wheezy action behind it, and there are some programs, organizations are really working hard to change things, and I hope it just spurs even more organizations and programmes that are looking to to fix racial and justice and to bring more people of color into this. Ensuring the mobility will aren't for you so much for joining us. It's your day off. I'd told twenty minutes before I never Today I am remove you take one it's gonna,

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to do a section, two thirty, a bit of a legal mess. We unpacked thirdly, we impact the order, as we were, having that conversation and executive order was spurred by trump tweeting twitter putting a label on a tweet. I was white male imbalance since that time, the protests and country migration justice have exploded all fifty states. There is a lot of controversy about them trump is not doing, I would say, any kind of reasonable job responding to them. He more it's been moderated by twitter, particular glorifying violence, twitters, taken action, against another member of congress retreats glorifying violence. There has been an unrest at facebook from employees about not moderating facebook from trump Zuckerberg had an all hands context of our conversation around that executive order, moderating and has just dramatically changed The tenor inside of facebook seem so dramatically changes walkest through that all of that

yeah. So you can think of it as to step process. The first step was that there were post about mail in voting that twitter believes sort of crime still lie in related weirdly, too some policies they put in place to deal with covered nineteen misinformation. Although the intersection of covert nineteen and voting is actually super important and in some way to keep an eye on, but faced with me, someone, you know what this it doesn't violate any of our policies. You might not like it, but we don't think violates policy and then The second step was tromp did a bunch of posts that some people took to be either glorifying or inciting violence against protesters. Over the weekend there was one about you know. Protesters will be met with them. vicious dogs and ominous weapons. I've ever seen right. She really does talk like property. I just want to wear

twitter saw those tweets, they decided to put them behind a warning label and say that they glorified violence, and that is what really put facebook under pressure, because trump crossed did the exact same words to facebook and so now face which was in a position of playing a less enforcement to the president's pose than twitter had an for, boys inside facebook who thought that those words did violate facebooks community standards. It became the sort of breaking point which then led to a virtual lock up. so to tell us how that walker played out well

Employees began to debate this among themselves. A group was formed about four hundred people joined it and they discussed ways that they could protest, and one of the things that was suggested was a virtual walk out, and so on Monday employees changed their status to say that they were out of the office. They stop doing work, maybe they attended and in real life protester they mean I did some sort of other organizing and some tweeted about it publicly, and this was a really big deal, because normally facebook has a lot of internal debate, but it very early spills over so that folks, like us, can take a look at it. But this case you had about a dozen employees who said that they disagreed with soccer decision, any sort of called on the company to handle it differently. So you know for people like he had been ready about this for a long time, it was really striking to see so many people come out and be openly critical,

real briefly, while one real briefly, my wife works for occupy us, which is a division of facebook, that it does closed, can eat very quickly. Talk about what is our bergs justification was unlike why he didn't think they sing these posts like broke facebooks policies. Yes, so it's a couple of things one is. Facebook has a rule that if a state threatens violence, it generally will leave that post up and the assumption is ban that a state will be threatening violence, against another state right. Maybe you live in Israel and you know it's threatening to I'm sorry. We live in palestine and Israel is threatening to tibet and the assumption is banned that well. If you live in palestine, have a right to know that they do not take into account. that a leader would threaten the use of force against their own citizens, and so they felt like there was nothing in the policy that actually let them remove those posts. So they said it felt like there to leave it up, and I mean that

Civic issue is, I think, why feels, I mean especially agree to sit on top of everything else, the very thing that people are protesting against violence from the state, and that is the reason that mark Zuckerberg, exciting for leaving the posts up there are a lot of contradictions here in over the weekend are, as I can, It is historic, wrote a piece about just the enormous amount of incidents of freely police brutality at the protests there are captured. Camera and uploaded by citizens to social media. content is section, Thirty is the mechanism by which twitter and face don't have to sit around. Why moderating all that content and serve. You think that smartphone camera has cause social change, which I think it's just it clearly hazard or many other once of it? But if you think that this window, to police brutality is a fun. In social networks? Technology,

on the staff will all of that enabled by the fact that the networks are not required to moderate. In this way, and at the same time, southward saying when I can this other thing and then to be. It calls to moderate harder there is an inherent messy contradiction in there when I'm not somebody who thinks that this was a really easy call, I did think that the president's tweets were in sight to violence. I also want these companies to make decisions that are like rooted in principle and can be repeated and are not just the whims of their founders right, because when we have these unelected, accountable ceos, making moderation decisions that are not rooted in some sort of principle that I think a lot about things to happen, but what I think is notable. Is that once nap waited and later. In the week you had a two of the biggest alternative social networks, taking one position and facebook taken another. So that is really in

thinks me in a backdrop of all of this, is this trump executive order calling on f c to be said, to sum up reinterpret section: two? Thirty, if you, if you ask them, craddock commissioners, and you have to see they say this will turn us into the speech police Commissioner resin we're salesmen public same at you. The republicans measures and ass. You see like seemingly eager to take on that role is there's this, like churning backdrop of some, are regulating moderation on the and you have facebook to artists and google with youtube, not doing a lot. Then you have the smaller ones becoming more aggressive feeling emboldened does that a dynamic is not what I expected. Does it make sense to you, I mean a little bit right leg. Let's say leg you may indeed or had a web forum and like we invited a few people in and one of them started saying like a man, I hope those protestors.

I'll get shot this weekend. We doesn't kick him out and it wouldn't be related to principle. We would just think people have a right to peacefully pro We don't want you in a forum right and because we're small, we don't really oh anything to anybody. Right: we just gonna go to set the rules, whereas running a platform that almost two million people a day are using the calculus, changes all of a sudden you're taking into account. sorts of different equities that are going to pressure you actually make the fewest moderate, brought moderation decisions possible and just try to let people kind of you know come to their own agreements or disagreements on your service so that once again, the reason. This fuel, so high stakes, and so consequential, is because we have this one network that is just so much bigger than all the other ones. The listeners can go, readers to their transcripts of sucker all hand internal organs of facebook. Enrico has won the smaller ones out there I was struck by how much she is talking about himself. Is the decision maker

he went and talk to other people. He went the research he As I know, this will have practical consequences on us. Really made it about himself in a very direct way. At the same time, he's trying to set up like a supreme word of moderation, decisions that it. It doesn't exist some practical and technical reasons. It's not up and up to speed. Yet But even right now he hasn't divested that moderation authority. He made the decision yeah, I Exactly. One reason why I have so much of that meeting was about him was because the employees are are trying to hold him accountable for the decision that he made right, like the pressure that he's getting is hey. You decided this. Why, and so the meeting is like alright. Well, here's what happened right, nice, he sort of walked through it, but you know for a long time now. Critics have been saying it probably does makes sense to have one person ultimately responsible for all of the world's speech in determining what goes up and what comes down

and that's why they have started to set up this oversight board, which is now getting on its feet, but is not fully baked yet. Does it makes sense is. I know facebook is much bigger than twitter, but shouldn't it. Be that twitter has one set of moderation. Decisions and facebook has another and youtube as another, or should they coalescence one sort of broad standard for the internet, Well, I mean you, you know around here. We love competition, radio, lake, I mean, I'm beta you into the quiet, and I do think that it has been a boon to all of this networks that other ones exists. We ve seen over and over again in the past few years. How like pinterest, will make a poem. Serve decision, and then it will get copied in its own way on youtube or facebook right. The existence of these other sites They want becoming these little laboratories of good ideas and the best ones, I think do kind of get adopted as these industry wide standards. So

now that the more the merrier is as far as I'm concerned in is, work in his meaning he laid out some things he was gonna, do in some take a ways, what what are they in? What you think of him? You know they're gonna back and look at some policies right leg its. It sounds like he's open to the idea that if a world leader threatens violence against their own citizens, they may they may come up with a new light. Well, a new warning for that right, probably wouldn't take it down, but but might put up a warning, so they're going to look at that and they are going to ask employees to come up with ways that facebook could fight for racial justice or, like kind of like soliciting input, I mean I'm sorry that is the most pt aid shit. I've ever heard my entire life, like okay you asked me to it as they were their doings is that there were set things total? You know, but I mean I think That we should say is the real problem that I think

of employees and a lot of facebook users want mark Zuckerberg solve. Is that donald trump as president right yeah? That's, not a problem. This Zuckerberg can solve and he's trying to put himself in a position where he can make decisions that he can. by buy and believe in when there is a non insane person running the country right, and he doesn't want to ratchet speech so far down because of this one, actor. He even says during that that call which we got a hold of the audio love that overtime. All they do is policies which generally just reduce speech and he's got very nervous about it, because it feels like a one way ratchet down and so he's tried to figure out. Where can he stand firm to permit speech so that facebook is still vibrant source of discussion. If you see it as one one tribe is gone What is, I think, leads to eradicate this in your newsletter, this

framing from asia? Ruskin I she wants. College is ruskin really dead, while free speech legit yeah- and you, sir he's got this framing freedom of speech versus freedom of reach and the thing It gets me every time, his yet okay, you're going to moderate, but facebook The most shared content are faced with us from fox news and conservative sites. The youtube recommendation outer them fame. Four radicalizing people in this way like There is an element of we will permit you to posts, but we will not amplify you That's right obviously took that we should talk about snapped it here, but it doesn't seem like. Maybe Zuckerberg understands that. Stinks in their already. Does he doesn't want you don't want to make it as clearly as some other folks to I think facebook has been a little slower to consider those freedom of reach questions than some other errors. Have there

condition algorithms, who get suggested to whom they ve been pretty behind on that stuff, so well, that comes along and says: hey trunk and keep his account makeup. I saw the snaps he winds, but if you go to the part of the app where we promote interesting accounts, which is discover he's just not going to be there and so he can still be found himself find him in search results. But if he's gonna get any views It's gonna be because he earned them and not because we handed them to him. Now it's easier for snap. snap is mostly a messaging app? It doesn't have a central feed if it did. All these questions would be one hundred times harder, but it is it raises the question for facebook: where are the surfaces in the app where you are just helping donald trump, build an audience and spread these messages, which do include stuff that walks right up to the line and probably too silver of wishing violence on peaceful protesters? Where are the play? within the apt that you could pull back on that and restrict that if you wanted. So that

It's all say whatever he wanted, but you would not be the handmaidens in helping him to build a larger megaphone that goes to read the only moderation decision that exists is leave it up or take it down there. Mass massive spectrum in between, and it feels like This work hasn't really thought about the fact that We just don't show this content in as much as the other stuff. We one show: maybe we pull Wasn't like all the other stuff you can do, they haven't, transparency or on that, and he was weirdly critical. Of of dorsey decision to put a warning label up, and so just taking it down to write, he did criticise it. The point was, if you think a post is going to get someone killed, take it down like. Why would you leave it? I thought it was going to get people killed. That's not weird! That's a completely reasonable yeah.

as to like labels. Facebook was early to labels, write writing and I think they were probably the first of the social networks to put up and, like fact, checking labels when they finally started to fact check posts which wasn't after wasn't until after the twenty sixteen election, so they put up the labels. They also it's really confusing truman. gee, they would say. Well, we reduce the reach of this post right, like it, with its permitted. Cyber working to reduce its region than a closer thinking. Well, ok, but from what to what I hear is like yeah we decided it was so bad. It was only gonna, get four hundred and sixty three view seeing that, oh it's like I'm, but who did you shall do it? Why, right at a certain level, all of these questions can just sort of break down into insanity, but bit I wanted to make that point, because they have certainly address the freedom of reach questions in a bunch of ways before, but

notably lie all along the way it does seem like it is those big far right megaphone that have grown the largest and one of the questions that you can debate with facebook executives all day if you want to is, is that is because facebook and other social networks on the internet that we have now just radicalized generation into becoming fascist or where they're just a lot of late. In fact, in the country and as soon as they got a hold of their own printing presses, they just kind of came out to play and start talking to each other woody. make about wall street journal reported face what was told, its internal researchers that it was radicalism. If decided to ignore it, I can tell you that facebook hated that story outlets in very strong terms, very strong terms, was not communicated to me. I write about

I mean newsletter and- and I think a couple things need to be sent- one is polarization- is a tricky words can have an umbrella term. That can mean a lot of different things in this context, it is worth asking yourself if you re on facebook as an you decided that your number one aim was to reduce polarization. Was that mean? Does that mean we have party rule in this country. Does it mean that we should all agree with each other on every political issue? Right, it's a really weird credit metric too organizer out now, at the same time, if anything, of using social networks. Is that all the liberals are now way more liberal and all of the conservatives are way more conservative. What that doesn't seem like a problem and so that we may want to look into, and so they built these teams try to devise ways to stop that exact kind of thing from happening and what they would say is we impulse the idea is that with our best and we throughout the ones that we thought veto would be counterproductive or what have other negative effects, I think actually bought the journal and facebook.

right. I think the journal was right in the sense that what MR all reverse it, facebook is right in the sense that they have implemented measures to try to reduce polarisation in certain ways they got through. Even look him up on the internet, they exist, they get. There are the product today, but the journals larger point was. polarization really isn't that important to face, but they did not make it a priority, and that I think is true and executives have more or less told me that, because there is a study that came out as recline, what a really good piece about it in box earlier this year, and it said if you look at what they call an effective polarization It's basically hey yeah. Your daughter is going to marry a republican. How do you feel about that right and they looked at kind of how these sentiments tract in different countries before and after facebook came out and what you see is that, as internet usage goes in these countries in some countries, position is up in summer goes down instalments stomach the same. It doesn't seem like social networks are having this uniform affect all around the world, and it seemed like a facebook which is the same product and all these countries how these unique property

There were driving us all mad and causing us to you, no hate one another. And you would see a uniform effect and you don't, and it is really on the basis of that study, that I think facebooks leadership, decided this just can't be that big, a priority for us it's not empirically clear to us that we are uniquely polarizing the world. Obviously, there are other factors in every other like there are not there's, not fuck, news in every country that, faced with the iron there's not approve? it s too, for his many. Many moral faults are present is very good at being in a natural and mike making policy through internet trolling. It is maybe his only skill at that seems like the problem here and you already brought it up like the problem for these social networks. Is they are built to amplifies some kinds of leaders ample. Lest some kinds of companies wet

ram craft is all find each other. They are not built to mitigate a president who seems out. Of all norms and boundaries, the american political system is that just Zimbabwe has to realise like not normal, and I gotta do something special or is it here just trying to walk the wine until there's an election, and then he might have to deal with it then. So this is a really good I shall write one of the reasons why Facebook employees were so upset over the weekend was the sense that there is nothing that trump could do. There would be enough of a red line that facebook would actually remove one of his post. Take some other action that you know would would make him mad right and- and you know what I heard back after that was well. If you go back to last month, the president's campaign team had tweeted this. Add that looked like the official? U S, census when in reality it was just like a garbage campaign survey and it must misrepresented itself and faced with them

this. This is not you can't make it look like people are taking the census of when you're just try to like to collect your email address, to get him to donate to you right, and it didn't make a lot waves at the time, even though you know it was. You know, faced saying: you're not allowed to run this kind of political out and is particularly interesting, given all the crap they took four for a saying last year that they were not going too fast track. Political adds right, here's a case where they actually puts sort of did. If you squint right so basements point to me was look we he he already crossed the red line and we got rid of the post so why do people think that there's no line that he can't cross that we won't make a decision on you know said he here like it's, I feel like I'm. All predictions are always wrong legs years and years, something that I'm predicting I predict like in the next month or so trump will say.

something on one or more social networks that is so horrible that it makes all of this discussion. Le quaint write like this. This conversation will just be a time capsule of oh remember when the worst thing that trump would say was when the looting when the shooting starts the looting started. When the looting starts, the shooting starts right, like casey casey, I'm sorry, you You say you're going to go out on a limb and make a prediction, and your prediction is trump's going to do something awful on social media that is specifically like far worse than what you said before in a way that clearly violates everyone's guidelines, and I think this a good chance that, like by July or august, trouble have said something that Facebook removed like. If I were a budding man, I would make that that end up. That's the better it'll make it's interesting. I saw this here earlier, but it's interesting that the censuses, the line where you can a lot of things, but you cannot remove mark Zuckerberg its ability to get data about says

Do that we will not let that happen where, when you look at the things they do really hard lines around it. Just tentatively stuff, that's easy to figure out where there's a lot of black and white right and, like you know, that's why they say on one hand we're not arbiters of truth, but on the other hand, if you say america votes in december, they'll just take that down instantly. No one even send it out to be a fact, hacking, but the reason It feels like well, despite how polarized we are in this country. We still agree on the calendar dates right, that's like something that polarization hasn't taken from us yet, and so so to build a policy around. Unlike our, u faking, a census is like easy to design a policy europe, but you getting back to what kicked off this whole discussion is What can this sitting president say about protests in his country and what he might do to stop them or manage them both link? There's there's not a up or down left or right answer there right it like that is just shades of new ones, and that is Hell world for their policy teams. It's easy wrote a peace this week it was

mine too, that these our span ban these actors like there. Obviously bad actors in the system there are outside of political norms. They are calling for exceptional levels of violence, etc, etc, etc. My argument Is the conservative movement in this country for decades now has thrived on seeing the media's against them. Yes, thrive, like fox news, is popular cable channel in a country each watch it. We want to hear about it foundational value? Fox news is the mainstream media, lied to you, but there are the most popular source of news and the country if, just if faced with, is just going to be accused of biased against conservatives. Twitter is just going to be accused, accuse censoring conservatives. Why not take this and say actually there are some lines. cause facebook does not. I want to be a social network for democrats like facebook.

wants to be a service that all people used to keep in touch with their friends and family and talk about the issues that are important to them. And if its policy framework is we're just gonna sort of make a more, calculus about how much we like all of the elected officials in the world and then keep up the ones we like get rid of the ones that we hate. Then they'll just break the service like it? It's not working the others thing. That's that's weird here. That really is Like maybe hardest us out, as it seems to me like face- really wants to have universal so rules for every country? So you can make the argument that, like they don't want, em, they don't wanna, what you're suggesting you? I because the the it was dynamic in the. U s is very different than the news dynamic in another country where facebook operates and they want to operate. You know two point: five billion people. You know america accounts, for you know some small percentage of that. and so the question then becomes like is that actually feasible

have a universal set of rules for network that big? Well, I mean like a lot of my criticisms of facebook, really come down to size right as so many problems of size and it loves to talk about the benefits of size. But here everything we're talking about here is a huge drawback, we're trying to create one context for all of human speech. It seems the obvious when you say it like that. Why us not working right like the entire history of humanity is organizing into tribes was shared norms and values. we're trying to march all of humanity into one online space and telling them to abide by one set of norms and values and the cynics. Streamline weird thing to ask of humanity, and yet that is what faced asking of us. You know all of this framework is gone, direct, out of existence, but there was a time when The fcc had local broadcast ownership rules and wood. The amount of radio stations any one person or company could own. It would make sure that

the tv station, the broadcasts tv stations were owned by some local nexus of people. All that is deregulated, potato foundation of that was hey. We, I view consolidation is country, hey you should be some connected to the community, that your serving as a broadcaster the reason they were able to do. That is because the radio waves are a public resource, so they were able had some trouble policy mandate, to manage them you you cannot do that with a facebook, but that set of principles. not seem to have carried over even as a norm or philosophical framework for our facebook should manage itself I have now baited you right back into the competition question. which is, if you broke up facebook Instead it needs to be smaller so that it can be managed.

Does actually breaking what's up in instagram offer facebook accomplish any of that, or is that just we feel better, because we we took a hammered anything that we think is bad. I think it's a fair question and I if you spun off instagram, we would still be asked whether transposed could be on facebook right. At the same time, I would say that, even if you don't take it to this place of break them up, You can look at how other social networks have managed this problem so again benefits of competition. Look at what read it does read it. Does it say really work and have one x for all of speech. Now they do have a floor of rules right like you can't post illegal cod on unread at their edina there's a handful of things you just can't do on any sub, read it, but any saw bread. It can raise the ceiling of those rules, so maybe you're

run so read for children in EU society. Dont want there to be any cursing profanity. You can set those rules. You can build those norms that you can have your tribe and you could have moderate It is that sort of make sure that those rules are followed and that way like minded people can congregate, and and and have exchanges and not have to abide by the code created essentially I didn't say created by but enforced by, one person who none of us elected and is accountable to almost no one right. So I think that that kind of local control could be reviewed or in these networks. If they revisited those policies thing there's something did Zuckerberg considering, as he builds the sort of global speech council. I dont know. Considering that specific thing, I think that the oversight board is about something different one. It's about creating some lodge,

merci and some sense of justice in their decision making, because now there is a formal mechanism for appeal, here. It is no longer Zuckerberg making. The call right. Think about how excited mark is going to be a year from now, where there's some really tough call that he doesn't have to make, because it can just be referred to the oversight board and they will abide by that decision and some people hate it, and some people will love it and mark will get to throw up his hands and say well. We built this institution because we believe that experts with backgrounds in speech law add a human right. It should be making these decisions and not me- and I actually think, is really hard to argue- that that you're, better off having mark make those decisions and the oversight board yeah that unelected grew. Global overheats, I'm sure that's gonna go great with I say is crap what happens now, here. I know you said you ate predictions and we don't really now, but we We are operating in sort of a minute to minute moment the employer asked is very high.

The last time there was employee unrest or it felt like face, we couldn't recruit. We saw them sort of take action on privacy yeah what happens next and in in the the turn of the wheel for facebook. oh, I will say that this particular employee revolt. Just within the past, twenty four or, as does not seem to me, to be the sort of thing that is snowballing nice to have some reporting to do on this sort of over the weekend, but it doesn't seem like sort of thing where thousands and thousands of people now lining up against this decision, and while Want to take anything away from the four hundred or so people who participated. It's worth noting that the Google walker, we all paid attention to a couple of years ago, I think, was about eighteen thousand people right. So it was. It was really really much bigger and I think there are some questions about. What are those four hundred people do? How many of them at will some have could already. I know that others are asking around saying what jobs are out there, that kind of stuff

delayed views right, it can take a month or two the line up a new job, particularly during a global depression, some place, we likely to stay because we're in a global oppression. So all of those are kind of unknowns, but I think this sort of secondary question is: how much longer do we have the fort trunk? Does something really really inflammatory and post about it on a social network? That's the thing! No one can predict, but I put I assume that once it does, we will be having all of these same conversations all over again. Getting you revenues on about face, weaken democracy, and what We believe that its absolutely free, nay lie ahead of you. Gonna figure something out, duessa bitcoin yes, absolutely perfect, while the serpent this yet I find the interface cozy. You can find it at the verge dot com, slash interface, my friend, while I'm sure we're just going to have you on the show over and over again over, until something until the end, the heat death of the universe. This one

Well. This is the only human contact I have any more so I love it. Thanks He was just in our support, for this show comes from american express business running a business is no easy feet. American express business cards are here to help whether you are a small business owner, ready to expand into new markets or your business is just taking off american express business cards are built for businesses like yours. Let's talk about investing in your business. American express understands that every penny earned is another penny that can go towards taking your business further with a host of select benefits and features available, like a flexible spending limit there more than just a business card there, a partner who works with you to help your business thrive and if there is ever an emergency there, twenty four seven support is ready to help. No matter the time of day american express business cards are built for your business, with

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you know what I think the answer is no, I I think the answer is to stop saying we ve gone long and just accept it in our hearts. Yeah. Virtual currency, in addition, is always ninety minutes long now that is our policy. I ran adviser covered. Look there is the other stuff happening in the world. It is in it is arguably more important than gadget news. It is more important than is. However, our listeners consists. Tell me indeed her. They enjoy the escape. So I want to make sure we talk about some technology news. Sam gash is still happening. The industry is still moving. Please No, like Take the socio economic at a site did heard. I and are in charge of this website. Look at the site, that's where our priorities are in terms of coverage, but this stuff, happening and Take it very seriously. Indeed. I know you get a lot and elsewhere as two people need a break in this stuff is the break. So would that's about try strike. Let us over getting it wrong, but it

its honour minds every single day. So to give you a break from having to think about politics, and what the trip administration has done. That we'd like to talk about a phone that is fundamentally broken because innovation policy us by four, the hallway p. Forty pro and there's like three things figure interesting about it number one, the like the most. One thing is: unless you live in china, your app experience this phone, is going to be just fundamentally flawed because it doesn't have google play services because who was now provide software. Awake is always in china and there's this whole thing going on with that, and so, if you're in china, great like you, you ve got the entire ecosystem of content and service. Naps and what that, but you can't get in the? U s: full! Stop and in europe you can, but you don't want because, like the app, even if you didn't care about Google's,

the absolute are available for it are really not good. Outside of the Google play a system. However, in a alternate universe, that wasn't true, I think the p forty pro would be. An incredibly fascinating head to head comparison with the galaxy s, twenty ultra, because I think that it did the camera stuff in a better way than estonia alter in just in so far as like they didn't screw up the focusing. They threw a really really you since I think it's like one that one to one over one, two eight or something it's a gigantic sensor and it does focusing pretty well. It has an incredible performance in terms of low life, photography so like. When you look at the phone world, you ve got samsung, throwing hardware the camera problem and not so good. At software you get google throwing software care problem pretty bad at hardware.

And I guess you put apple kind of in the middle there and hallway is definitely sam. Summing sam singing the camera better than Samsung, they are doing a better of just solving the problem of hardware than samsung is right now, and I find that fascinating. The third thing is, while we haven't got them. Oh that everybody hates curve displays and like that moment has done. Not only did the curve left in the right, they cover the topic item has just like stop it. Stop it right now what wouldn't be bad. If anybody ever figured out really what to do with those curved edges same thing at the weird swiping thing, but you don't want your car and spilling over there. Well, that's the thing that you do those curved edges you just like it's just a short cut to getting rid of vessels right and like minimizing or eliminating the view of vessels, but like did the screen should just be inoperable. It should just be like it is light up. There just think make it look, pretty the habit light up, don't don't have the pixels the tough screen, part of that actually anything and you're done. I don't think, that's so upset

you're asking a video and there's just like shining pay. Was it you, It's not like it'll, it can display content, but just don't have a curve so much that you lose it like how it'd be basically flat, just use it as a bezel reduction technology. That's all it should be. I feel I just It vessels get so bad, it's fine, have a little battle and make the thing rational. No one's gonna be mad at you. No one, now, when is buying a phone because of the vessel size, as we have seen from the iphone year. After you year check out this giant forehead vessel on its fun anyhow. I iphone. Se two still has a huge basil yeah. He does not like cons bessel. I was I'm a con vessel on that thing. Well, that's why we're here to doing this is your now. Well, I'm sorry bark has probably is actually if leading the charge against the kerb Syrians has been really really strong at about it and said I'll, take credit for for complaining about the stuff. I can you

What's going on with Israel maxim, data caps I'm very exciting about this. what are we? But I'm also said it's a sad excitement. I would say I was its bitter sweet, but, like me, energy like a high energy, bitter sweet like that Take a monster energy and put it in a workers. Somethin like that yeah, caffeinated, bittersweet and so I'll just gives him back sorrier. There was a concert called net neutrality, now go back there, Oh my gosh Juliet I interviewed turning insiders until tuesday he is ceo of a division of eighteen t called otter media, which is responsible. The operation of hbo max, a shoe max and shaming service, its very confusing literally. My first question him You should change idle to see ratio max. I don't they think most ceos get that question. He is like now the guy in charge ratio max. Turning its all. This comes on the recast as a great

usually did a great job with it did I, of course ask him the data tat question which I have been talking about on the show. For years and years and years, net neutrality is gone. Eighteen t buys a content service obvious thing for it to do is give priority acts to its own continent on seller, and I I here like a moral judgement here. It is just a rational business decision view one, the pipe. You want your content to go through it better than your competitor content. Right like That's why you would do it. It's why you would by its why isn t what bite somewhere so any says we The conversation don't know the answer later on. I push eighteen t really really really hard in a Only tell me: ok we are letting israel max sit outside of our data caps. They did not want to tell me this and I promise you they. They were not happy to say it to me, but I pushed

really hard on, which is super weird, because wouldn't they want to tell their customers, wouldn't this be like a benefit of h, b, o max for a t and t customers. I don't know, but if you look around it's not in any of the marketing material, all the marketing material from atrial max its bundled india or a certain eighteen t home internet plans its into our ultimate plans: it's free, but what they are talking about is the cost, the monthly costs of the service. Right so view of eighteen. Eighty unlimited elite preferred twenty five or insane names are asia. Maxims are free you have eighteen t home internet one thousand issue of access for free. If you have one of their other plans, it's free firm flight, like All of it is right that monthly service cost nowhere zero zero of their marketing? Is there a reflection of whether or not it hits or data can write? So I push them really hard because it seemed in seem to me that this yo hbo max does not know this answer that just doesn't it didn't,

in click right so really hard on. It may finally told me it does not hit their mobile data caps. So If you buy a ten gig a month plan information t and they still sell them there, they used to call the mobile share plans in articles. Something else was always changing. But if you buy ten gigs a month of data from eighteen t, any dream: atrium acts all day. You still have some eggs data used. Netflix all day. You're you've used up your data. If you have one of their unlimited plans which have what they call soft caps right now, the soft caps are set at twenty two gigs and fifty gigs depends What you buy so you twenty two gigs of what they call priority data, which just makes me sad, so you're twenty gives priority data, which means you get data, and if the tower is congested or the network is busy or something you're speeds or throttle down so he stream atrium

all day on an eighteen year, unlimited plan it does not affect your twenty two gives a priority data, if you shame Netflix all day and your unlimited It had second underneath this is, system, they call sponsored data, which is it edge to make it seem fair. I just want to be really clear about the spot. Data is the net neutrality equivalent of the e money and a five g well well did it for a minute south asian, this programme hans, HANS data, since twenty fourteen, which now it's effectually, zero rating. So if you're Netflix and you say man. I dont want agency customers who use other ten gig data cat, I'm gonna pay for that data myself right, seeking right, eighteen to attract based on the predicted data usage of of your customers in whatever its you ve sponsored their data today, can go advertise your customers, haven stream verge, video streams service. We got assertion we're like late to the party at this point.

It's been so oversights of art show you can stream verge videos all day, eighteen tee and wanted, but I have to pay for that check. After right, agent. He owns hbo backs, so max is writing a check to eighteen team ability for sponsor data. Asked for hbo max in its own revenue for aid it's easy mobility at the top of eating teats. It's just fake money. It just move from one pocket to the other from one division to another and they're totally fine with it, because they don't have to like break out the the p and l of atrium accident richest. Eighty, if you're netflix such real money, you have to pay. So I Your now say to eighteen customers as netflix. We will hit your cap neustria want, which is, in our view, on your phone is likely. You pick hbo, because one at your cap that that's a choice you would rationally make or you know, She pay the real money and you pass the cost on your customer. Raising prices

lowering your margin your vote. video and you don't launch your service in the first place, because you know no one will pick it because they don't want to hit their cap and you don't want to have to pay for the your data cost and so all of a sudden, the lack neutrality has suppressed competition and therefore hbo max winds. Yeah or your startup casket. Yet your son I lost a certain new video streaming service and compete with remax. Could she ever hire so like? Is that going to play we don't know. This is one of those when that action, is going away. People said this was, I got retail, like it, was a bomb that wouldn't go off. You know well here here it is and the thing that strikes me is eighteen. Eighty not wanted to say and when we interviewed tony I didn't want to say it and we pushed it out of them in immediately the thing that happened is a coalition of senators Ed marquis, run, widen they sent. there are today being like tell us about distributing scheme,

im pretty sure the reason eighteenth he didn't want to say it is. He did not want to attract this kind of scrutiny, even others that know net neutrality, because it just doesn't seem fair for eighteen tee to exempt itself and not exempt everybody else, so the comparison is to t mobile, which has been john, so he watched netflix on your t, mobile phone. I hate that data cap, but then John, is in open program. Almost any service router can sign up for it. It's free, you don't have to pay for that service, try to start pay for it, and it's like it's not love it in a sort of net neutrality circles, but it's at least something close to open right. So It there's no, there's no gradations of competitiveness for video service providers. You just four been John and you're like yup, are videos machine for anyone where's of agency, have to pay them and their effectively giving in to himself or free with this accounting that seems way more problematic in terms of maybe

legal net neutrality, but in terms of network operation you think that eighteen tea was like nervous to say it, because this is a company that is people happy to lie to you about whether or not you have five g in your status bar by putting five g and yet there they're nervous to say this thing that their customers theoretically would want to hear, and I just can't help but wonder why are they being no responded now and like a year three ago? They might not have been, and I just have to think that the streaming wars of heated up and now there are other companies with a huge bank account that First history of suing people that might actually like cause some problems for them. So they are unhappy about the government scrutiny but they're, probably not eager. At all, to have disney be like hey yeah. This is bullshit. We're gonna use our club to do something about it, yeah and it you know net neutrality fight is tired. As it is, has its ought actually ever writer no state level net neutrality laws that haven't really been challenged, the public safety the throttling

remanded like its yacht over like there's, not you can't white saying that neutrality is gone, it's gone Fine, but there's like this ancillary fight next to it that isn't it's out of stable for companies operate on he took it so smell it in the room. That's swell, I think about it. So it's still it's still there and I think In these moves sk, gives more energy to california new york or what have you to pass on net neutrality, laws and now they have now. have something to say in terms of defending them. Here is a real, concrete harm of not having a net neutrality law, so we California, are vigorously and it and we go to court. Rina, say look at this harm and I I just but I really mean this like another. Tony was dance too much is the rational business decision for eighteen t it is. for them to do it. The question is: should it be legal,

Should the internet have these kinds of gatekeepers it's funny. We have all this conversation with casey about faced with moderating speech Action is. Do you want eighteen t moderating in an with another? mechanism, but you're able to watch for free or not, and I I have made this comparison ten thousand times. I will make it again what we are using towards is eighteen to customers streaming cnn for free and having fox news that their data at just ass, a whole face were caught. Conversation think about that next level. Cost. Whatever you think of cnn, it's free to watch cnn, whatever you think of fox, is going to cost money to watch fox, just by dint of the data plan that you have. That is to me is always in problematic, as always when the heart of the conversation souci, but just it was a real roller coaster. To get eighty to tell me this information in out, we were seeing since rename it that's gonna do and see vehement test

Well, the sta of nine to five google on the next day developers got leaks of the upcoming android tv thing. We don't know what it's gonna be called it to me. It makes sense that they would call it like. Nest tv, because it using that products, but it looks like it- basically a successor to the chrome cast that is a chrome cast but happens, run great tv, so it has a remote control and it runs andred tv- and you know it's coding sabrina. We don't coming out. Presumably the four others are reasonable cost. I think that protocol had there was that it costs us at eighty bucks, so there's an in coming so great it'll, be cheaper than the apple tv. But like that's, no, no big accomplishment does everything super than the apple tv, but thing. That's interesting to me is this: is the fiftieth time the google has tried to get tv right and the the success that they they've had was like that chrome cast so they're trying to build that I guess, but I also think that if their smart, they're gonna build off you tube and I'll, make you to feel like a fool

class citizen on the main? U I and if you just think about, The main you eyes on different devices, like apple, has just gotta grid of ice, because I can't anybody to use the apple tv up on the apple tv, and no one wants to like participate in that we ve had all these debates. Julianne talking about reverse carriage disputes. You think people don't like apple and don't want to be in there, like the number of fights at Google has had with cable companies over the years would blow your mind so like the the thing that Google has to do is like put youtube front and center and maybe youtube tv front and center, which sort of is interesting because, like it could be like if you use google stuff and live in Google land, you should get the google tv use apple stuff and live at apple, and you get the apple tv and she has amazon, stuff and lives, amazon land. You should get a fire tv and so the the stick attached.

your television is becoming part of like the ecosystem. By in that, you need to live with a really railway. It's interesting because Julia today, before sir, according published ro whose numbers broke. Our controls, nearly forty five percent of connected tv, viewing time So the total number of minutes watched on smart tv's, forty five percent of those minutes on roku device, is the next highest amazon fire tv, nineteen percent yes or workers winning but they're they're, they're, very good at getting out cheap tvs, other their hundred devices. Cheap, and there also like easy to understand and their relatively neutral, because the relatively non threatening to these other, company so like that's, changing rather threatening to hbo max atrium actions, not on the review platform. Exactly in that like verse, starting to flex little

The underlying atrium acts max we've. We ve seen some reporting, jellies and reporting, max is now the platform, because eventually they're gonna and add, supported version issue max tony basically said right, so it's not calm down line. If you ads on. I wrote you they want to cut of that money. That's part! business, all in the area of fighting in them and make them that now, because our having the fight about the version of atrium access coming in the future, it makes sense. You should do that, but roper's where they can say, we will not have each bio max on our platform at all, because we can show some in a minute of your time. so, once again, where we're talking about a platform adding that it's like it. It's like you tv neutrality, as you remember, web browsers web browsers are great. They can we just briefly you talk about

what I was writing this like article in the newsletter. I wanna to just call back all the What went wrong with with google tvs efforts over the years, and I completely forgot- twenty sixteen. The Tom wheeler fcc and the bottom illustration tried to force all cable company. To allow neutrality for boxes or anybody can make a cable box. I would work with your cable system. Yet this is a thing That happened was hard. Hashtag unlock the box. This is it. at a time when, like the ssc would call me with, like excited, activism using I write it up, is and was going to be a thing by way, went nowhere. They they eventually were like, maybe just make apps, if you please please just make That was that was where that ended up. Also, it's it's interesting napoleon apart, like the cables You system was unknown a kind of network, was adjacent to the internet, but it was very one way, video broadcast network that was

upstart designed to like break the establishment of broadcast tv. That's true, and eventually they added like some amount of interactivity to that video network right, you could make purchases by video on demand. You could do paper the other stuff, but it was still a one we broke and when I went to digital encrypted it The idea was, we should anybody to build a box. They will unpreparedness bundle of it how's this being sent into your house, and the first part of that was hard wishes continues to limp along as some kind of disaster and in a second, it was will do so. Where above a set of standards and unable to can do it in go with super hard on this and actually built some prototypes issue some prototypes of like we can, we can disrupt spectrum, and we can build our own guiding you are and what you do, what you eventually had as a model was just like you, the internet in bits, come into your house you have all kinds of front end to internet service. You should be able to buy,

any front and you want to video service and if you want to, go interface for cable, the apple interface, and this would have been great anarchy. companies are stupid got it down, and so they actually work in a stream anything everything anyway and now we're too where everything is streaming. Everything is apps and is it'll, be expensive hard to find anything. And what people really want is something that looks an awful lot like a cable box built by apple or google or roku. And it's just like this. We'll just keeps repeating emma cable, homies unrealized, like We should just charge people an extra fifty bucks a month, for a video services package about anybody, building interface where it because that's where we're cruising right back to it with netflix in Israel maxim whatever people or are they just want a bundle pricing? That's my pretty and I dunno if it's going to I'm assuming Julia, will have a better read on it than I do because she's in it, but it's just funny how fast recruiting that to a cable model will just-

yep one last thing: we were quick because we're running long, very alone, cresswells reviewed the What are the new arc from sato said? where's that most, I know you ve got one in your house like a do other than light. Looking like really dumb causes just full of holes. Illustrate. I will, I will say they re really look. Terrible are very, very good photos still unlike no, thank you, I'm sure it's it's it's very black. It is on the white one. I don't wanna go by white one like while want. A glowing white bar under your tv we're watching movies, but the back one basically disappears. And it is actually it's What do these products launch now, because we see persons we get through view units so as very skeptical of it made of plastic. It looks great. It's totally It sounds great really. Yes, oh it's it's here. It's in the next room in my basements remedial room. I have like the full at my system here.

Dennin receiver, I've got five that one, You said that speakers in the ceilings for height channel I watch out. Everyone knows like, although it is totally competitive of that system, how absolutely compatible system in turkey it it's like, but yet have something like two grand to get like. the sound bar the sob and a couple of surrounds? No, no, I just arc itself. No, nothing really I'm in the issue of ice, you should get substances. Subway scorn makes all the experts it's been mere in terms of em so my favorite. test scene, is the opening seen a baby driver? Ok, just took a lot of stuff whizzing around the music spun. There's a helicopter. goes by yeah. That's just like a really good test of the thing, like it's all really loud, but can you placed this one helicopter or the siren? It's a to begin and you hear a helicopter goodbye friend. So it's like. I that's the thing I test everything with atmos, like the the arc

run it. I've seen it almost totally Immersive is my son. Channel real atma system. Speakers in the ceiling right surprisingly, so and in some cases better, because my all of my speakers on the ceiling However, the barriers and assuming to any atlas bounces sound off the rear wall, so can locate them and, in my height a little bit more accurately, That said, I have a fairly low ceiling and I have a wall right behind a couch. So what the ark is due is its bouncing sound off another surfaces. Let's get upset which is a much more open, main living room. All that surround it one It doesn't repeating the walls it doesnt work, so a fairly normal living room attitude. A fairly new tv, because this whole thing runs off hd my arc. There's only one input, it is the input of eighty men put the hast commodity or tv and only recent tvs, fully support outpost. So, like your options, furred like this whole- I don't know

like. I dont get it every other high and sound bar like they. They give you the stuff you see the the dyson finally put out like we wanted to make the soccer car, but we can't do it and so here's what we would have made it. I've got a point here. Did you see it? Yes, go look at the the post for dyson's proposal and go look at the steering wheel. In particular, it is covered in buttons switches and dials and their their amazing, its bright out of like a nineteen. Eighty four like cyber punk movie, movie, it's terrible, it's amazing, and you by high end audio shit. You expect to have like some key gauze, and so no says like we hate, gewgaws, there's one input and if your tv supports it bully for you, if it doesn't, you get degraded experienced the end, and that's just like weird I I asked senate will be impacted technique, side of it here. I have a theory that I, as a member

So the way amis verses object may surround it doesn't discreet channels, just locates sound in a in by sound objects in the field and the system processes at our it's gonna to try to look at those objects, you can send at most out in a compressed way over dolby, digital plus, some tvs can do it and that's compressed atlas, My tv cannot chris Welch's tv can so my twenty sixteen algae allayed cannot set. Toby digital plus over its arc pour over html. If you refuse optical, you can't do it you're stuck. some tvs in the middle of that fact. At how to send dolby digital plus out over art standard hd. My adi return channel marked rare, so you can get compressed at most to the sun arc over arc.

The name is confusing in this context, but surely it gathers also e arc which is like right. Then the new standard is e, which is enhanced audio returned channel. Is higher bandwidth. They can support uncompress dolby atlas, some other uncompress formats. It has a data sink channel, so automatically sink the image. the stream. Adios. You don't get we're losing problems, its enhanced, its enhanced arc, is beyond had so the e in front of it means it's real de after it, threatening to their so new previous. Super new tvs have ie arc the new standard. If you have an older tv, twenty, sixteen or below a private won't get thing, We have a twenty seventeen tv. I would Cyril, it eats a google it abs forum, people make lists. If, if you bought achieving this year's. My guess.

and so this is annoying in order for me to test atmosphere, Sono sent me a new soami tv, because my tv can't do It- and even though I have we'll tv and chrome chasse, and I wrote you in all these other animals devices because it has to pay. Through my tv and then go into the the it won't work. this is how much the somber cost eight hundred hours some portion of people who want to buy this. They are people who a wants to have a mouse and be have already bought a big ass nice tv that isn't that, like they bought an early enough are really adopters that it doesn't happen to support it. I am getting emails from people who own the algae, be six, oh at which was like first mass more it reasonably priced point. Oh it yeah so like in their mad. I mad well, but solos chose to only have the one arc issue, my port on this thing. They could have chosen to put the gig eyes on it because, like what some portion of the other customer base, what it would want and youth-

relatively large portion was, I think, there's two arguments here. First argument, I sort of understand which is at like everywhere yet, and doing age should pass through as a level of complexity to the system. That centres doesn't want to engage and most people. are not us and I don't care. What am I saying unplug it in an agony advice. White wine out of their older tv, and it's still going to sound great and great right, the that's like, and that's basically the argument, Patrick Spence made to us yeah, you can go. Listen! the second argument, which I am I actually sk, ass, the people by tvs and sandbars together so Yet there are some people who have other tvs. Like me, there's really upset, but most people gotta. Guided by the package tv sandbar together, the person comes, puts on the wall and that's it until you buy new tv us of our. So I asked Patrick Spence, he said that is correct, he's only three their trade us into not having the thing He said one, you ve ease of use,

you have to start letting people slight inputs. two additional remote to control inputs, that's just not their flocks. I want to do that. He said it would affect sound performance, does it have to change the internal design of the product yeah? But that's what you told me it would take more space inside the product you to accept any said. We are placing a bet on e arc as we believe it is the long term industry trend. So another product in future. So I've got this this moment where I think something some people, We're early. Doctors are gonna, be mad yeah, but this is the product itself, alas, for much longer time and they didn't have to build on like input many way while given how long they have they cut the placing on the market because they want to redesign the thing for like two decades. Forty five years of a key Isn't the thing: that's the answer. I I really think that people by tvs and in sandbars together is from there selective very compelling from my perspective is He began to, it is less compelling, but there it is

I guess for them like if you are not in that group and whatever like The beam is actually a super good deals. Just go, get a beam and stop complaining right. Yeah I mean I think this. Does it really credible job of five point? One surround like He is so good that it still works itself sounds ex ran sound. I eat but this line are commentaries are taken. She went, which is like its eight hours for money. If you had a sidewalk fourteen hundred dollars, I get a lot of money. but in terms of cost income city versus standard atlas system. It actually makes a very convincing case itself, because I don't I caught circles into my ceiling and run wire. I d wire and make it look nice in. I do at a time yeah well, I live in an apartment so, like I can't. I can't do that. So I gotta like put little polls up or mounts or just mount visible speakers up there or you just get this. I'm not going to get this because I don't think my vizio supports it. See what I'm saying and you get

like extremely credible, surrounds on experience. I think I just I say over and over and over again. If you have fifty, hundred dollars to spend which initially may now you might not like that's how much do we talk about money on the flagship phones all the time now, the top and note when it comes out is right. It twelve thirteen dollars and Ivan eleven pro max twelve. Thirty, five, whatever the numbers are with the top and storage, is right at twelfth or two hundred dollars. If you like, your phone, like the better money to spend, is dolby vision, tv and an amazon bar, and I think this to me given that it's connected to the rest, the centres ecosystem, given that it has port for all the services, given the huge like carefully to it. This is the I just wanna Samar and thence by that. Sixty five inches tcp worker tv- you ok, show max quite yet

but you get a job creation tv now your home and of your energy at home, and you ve got affectively. Compare If theatre sat up as competitive theatre set up, that's a way better value for dollar than a phone right to me right now. Now, anyway, I wish you ass. We already make videos like how do you make a video about helicopters sounding like there behind you re? I can't see It's hard to it's hard to explain, bite it, something worth checking out and I m just continue believe like if you're you can see we all your team at home, send the money on the tv any audio and you will be so much happier than a moderate increase in cellphone picture quality That's it! We have gone now, I think, in our two hours. Its is what my a quarter says: the answer andrews, speed. Everything up to ten percent. This recast, as forty five minutes longer resided chipmunks dieter chamber in his other avenues,

it's called processor. You can find it at the verge dot com, slash newsletter, and it's about computers, cases on him to try the interface, its privacy Action between leaders, newsletter and interfaces, like all things, are interested let's good em, both they play off each other. We have Ironic interview episodes continues next week. We asked Aren't I interviewed the sea of tinder ellis even here It's super interesting I'll, give you a preview. Tinder video dates have to be chaperoned for obvious reasons, so they're building a a chaperones for video dates, amazing, but just to make sure you don't dude to bad credit job. It was a wild conversation. That's going on tuesday, back on friday, with a chat. Show tweeted us that reckless staters at babylon, casey's casey newton, laura that headlong rush. That's it

as the vice chair in prison if of microsoft, Brad smith has a keen look at some of the most important developments in technology today. So we as well hunt perspective on the role that government. businesses and innovators play in shaping its future. Thankfully he wanted to there's some of that knowledge on his podcast season. Two of tools and weapons will cover topics like environmental sustainability security and developing. I programmes guests include business. Man strive mussy, you are microsoft, ceo, such an endeavour and journalist carest wisher season two of tools,

happens with Brad smith is now streaming wherever you get your podcast rhine reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced that we raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of meant unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try: men, mobile dot com, slash switch new activation and up payment for three month plan required taxes, taxes in extra additional restrictions apply, apply, seem mobiles outcome for full terms.