Support for. The show comes from the podcast. This is small business next generation in this new donkey series from amazon follow for teams of aspiring entrepreneurs as they compete in the rice, university business plan, competition pitching their best business ideas to top theses and investors for a chance to win up to three men, in dollars for their start. Ups, co, host, andrea Marquez and miss gilbert are your guides. Who will have what it takes to succeed? This is small business. Next generation is out now go, listen on your favorite podcast app and subscribe to keep up to date and rain reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced that we raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflect

our prices due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of men unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. It meant mobile dot com, slash switch new activation and prompt payment for three month. Plan required taxes in these extra additional restrictions apply seem, Mobiles outcome for full terms: greetings mobile accomplishes. I am dieter bone and your listening to our special run of directors, cuts of the reviews that we have been writing this week. We are talking about the iphone twelve annie, iphone, twelve pro we get to them the regular verge cast chat show so this week I want to bring on somebody you may have heard of before. His name is neil. I patel he's the editor in chief of the verge and we also run join us turn from the wall street journal and we talked at all of our reviews of these phones and the process that we use to get them done. Joanna literally went to a stadium to test. Five g want to go deep on that talked to neil, I, of course, about double vision, age pick the technical

They really wanted to focus on, and then I tried to focus on a bunch of more general stuff. So does really if the conversation also need like its into what it's like to have every photo that he takes his house. Look like it comes from a horror movie thing that happened anyway. I thank you joyce carnations, superfine, here's the eye Joanna. Join a stern welcome back. You are still these senior technology sooner personal technology columnist at the wall street journal hello, two weeks are still the same job. That's right! It's a big accomplishment in this industry. The ipod touch You you're an energy for a website that our listeners may have heard of called diverge am I note also that Joanna is one of the most notable traders and verge history, because she's wanted or are cofounders there are four iphone. This year, and we ve only seen two out of the four in our own hands. in our own hands, but First decision we had to make was: dear view them together or separately so near

freedom separately, Joanna you're viewed them together. How did you make that decision? When I look to them. I said people may actually really be considering these side by side. I actually dont think that that many p consider the iphone twelve next to an iphone pro max and the many we can just talk about, like separately I really still think there are three phones and then there's like a be model of the first phone, which is the iphone twelve break as they often twelve is just the many savings that phone. The smaller screen, and so I was just looking the map, as heroic people may actually consider this an actually not only people, but what I'm thinking buying a fund for my wife. I keep going back and forth between those two, so made sense to me to review them side by side, no occasional below we decided it separately when there's two of us yeah

it's true that made it easy we actually have to as well. We have me and Cohen, and so I phones together ipad separately- was our decision, the other. That makes sense. I I was joking like there are indeed two of us, but really it comes down to. There is so much to talk about with these phones they're, the newest phones, in quite some time, new design new. if features in some ways. New modem is five g, like it made sense to actually break them apart. Other similarities and then be able to be focused on their differences right. If there is less new stuff, we would have lean towards doing them together right, but yeah there's so much new stuff that I wanted to be able to go deep on that so if I wanted to go deep on and so make sure people get a review, control from data. So the thing that's for trading now jurassic what people are really gonna be considering a bee. These two devices, I think a lot of people are actually looking at all for, and

Some people like, oh, maybe I'd, maybe I'd, want to go back to small foreigner. I've been waiting desperately for a small phone at a bunch. People are like. I want to protest. As a better camera on the only one that actually does have a truly better cameras. Probably the pro max screen. I didn't like it funny, I'm in a year, were actually like pretty much. Everyone in my life needs a new iphone, so my wife needs new iphone. My dad desperately needs a new iphone and, with my dad I knew ITALY, he needs the maxine. He likes a bigger screen. He also doesn't operators phone for fifteen years. So it's fine for him, then, with my wife, I'm sorry, really debating the other three year plan, I'm sort of like thank you for the many and like maybe she would want a smaller found by honestly after the pro and like knowing that the telephoto there we're just gonna, go at the prow so. I totally agree with you that, like you, most people are looking at all of them and probably most people can I articulate what is different. damn and probably even when they buy them will not know it's different with them.

yeah. It's actually like it's a really short list, but then it feels long and like fitly when you get into it. So the thing me with the twelve was just well. Ok, you either just want that felt I found or you want, the better camera the bigger screen or you. smaller one I, like, I actually dont, know for me how many people I want to point out the pro. Unless, like you, really want a telephoto like know, how do you Think about like one were actually like starting to give like the recommendation of if you need an upgrade which one to get given you haven't even touched or seen two out of the four, these hans yeah they actually huh Matt panzer reno at tat crunch you is this word that I kind of wish I had used, but there's the more I think about it. I didn't he called the pro a compromise. yeah. So there's the twelve which everyone should get theirs is pro max waiting in the wings seems like the best thing can get any so the the programme Its welfare is a compromise between the two. If I held the pro maxim, I handed a new was good it,

in calling a compromise at this point in time is really just a bet on how much you think applicant execute. It is a safe bet that they execute. I'm not so he did anything wrong. I noticed More cautious like I want to have used it yet before I say, that's the best one. While there is also the fact as a bigger sensor, which is a risk yeah as you have pointed out, in your view, very simply, funds and market as pointed out, those bigger sensors come with a host of assorted problems, now. Apples in a wider sense like again do think apple can execute. Probably they can. But given what we know about the problems others have had, I would like to hold it and take a bunch of photos before I constantly the twelve is a compromise, but if I had a bet ending the twelve as a compromise you mean the twelve, not the twelve prow to twelve pro is a compromise. Right between the best thing you can get from apple. Anything that everyone should get in that is a unique place for the twelve protein like you,

usually think of any of apples products as being the compromise, but it just at right now. I don't think the value for dollars it's not as obvious as last year when you got an overdue swainson and I'll see lcd. To me, I think they could just get rid of that pro right, but they don't want you because margins and the only reason to buy that pros for the telephoto, let's yeah to me. The only reason to buy the pros for the telephoto lens that we should actually list out the things that the pro has that the regular twelve thousand and it is the telephoto lens, light are shiny sides made out of steel, so they weigh more a mat glass back, sort of glossy back apple still doing this annoying thing, we're like they like, swap what gets glossy and that it has higher typical screen brightness compared to the twelve, which makes no sense to me. and it all will also sunday in the future, support this new priori image format. It will also

heart, dolby vision, hd, are at sixty frames per second instead of thirty. Who knows why? And finally the batteries between these two phones may in fact be different. We die. No there's been some towns are. It is just the same I know the answer to that either, and I think the other things you mentioned are, which of those are software limitations and which are those are hardware, limitations, We we assume the pro has more ram to gangs, you right right, six versus, for, I think, is it, and that's what the numbers tell us, but, like apple, refused to tell you actually as well recording this right now I fix it is doing their iphone. Twelve tear down live, so we can't just go look at the part yet because they're doing it right now, what is a limitation because of two gigs more ram is and prayer can't work on four days. Ram is adobe vision. Can't work at sixty because of four days media ram and what is a software limitation? And I just over

fine! What these phones! I think that one, in blurry are, and we actually are now so that the peak brightness thing you mentioned their actual peak brightness in dolby. Vision is the same number. Yes, cracked, when you're in hd are watching television that they both can hit it's twelve hundred nets, but then for typical use. They wrapped the twelve down to it. forget. The numbers was like sixty six. Twenty five is inside out and get hunters. Something right in I guess that software limitation is unfortunately we will never know the answer, because you can't just like unlock I, who s and find out for yourself, and also, just in your regular daily to day life with automatic brightness intrusion upon the goal of all that that software is to make the screens look the same. So I think that's that's like the screen says to me is its cause. In that that world of what is a software limitation? What is a harbor limitation and where the actual experiences have the job cause. Neil I reviewed and separately. We neither us has actually help both phones and looked at them together. At the same time, did you know

the differences between the screens or, like any other, like notable differences. one way more than the others, like any other, to untie what hand feel Yes, so actually it's funny the things you live through the beginning about the design I actually feel be having both of these phones together, that the twelve is the better design of the phone, even though the twelve profiles wait here, like you definitely feel be like when you go to pick it up. You know which one you ve picked up and tralee their boat table like an you and you're, not looking at the back of the phone. You know exactly which, when you ve picked up because of the the weighty nests of thou of the pro I also don't like on the proud, the edges, the stainless steel edges decides, are silver basically and get very. Very fingerprinted, up like there's lots of smudges sides, and even though the back of the pro the glass gets very smudgy, I'm used to act as I've had the eleven, and it also just like do an easy wipe on pants, and that like comes off versus the signs which like

I know you need a micro fibre cloth till I polish up decides which is I do every night- and I polish may say- and so I just take up my power washer usually- and you know it- they have a brand new attachment for power washers you I need to get its. I phoned journey. by the way, are deepening our power washers, a great tik, tok channel. I think you just power she funds every night people go crazy for it. I haven't seen the probate. I agree the better design. The twelve is a better design, the providing those shiny, cider ostentatious yeah, I get the thriving currency airlines, but I didn't that shows of my entire review. Was it so people are just going to spend the extra money to get the shiny one in that's fine, but what we should just be honest, biggest draw this phone. He has now the telephoto ends. It is not some marginal software features. You can't get it's that its shining

We should be honest with each other aviano myself. I've come to accept who I am about mumbai, the shining one in my that's fine. he worked by one day I would which one would you go for. I might get a full big screen person even at home in quarantine, iceland, most of my mornings working on a phone because I our kid in the morning, and so I'm always a sort of like working on the phone, so the biggest screen I can get. Is the most useful to me in that context. In n. I always want to ask him I can my camera nerd in this camera, which really interesting and if I had to choose right now between the two them. I'd obviously get the twelve proud regular one because it has the slightly better camera. but I I I wouldn't buy one right now, because I'm waiting to see what this other thing can do read Joanna how bout you I'm definitely buying my wife, the pro yeah, but funny enough like now. That review is

the time is over. My sin is in the twelve point: why are you by your wife approved because the size shoot she's. A mostly she's had a ten inches actually really liked it, except for the camera which she doesn't see the issues, but I see it all the time in the photo she text the family, yes and He loves the size of it and she's to the telephoto like we're not going back on the telephoto now so, and I miss the only I like, I love this twelve and that's the one I've been using with my sim in it, but I miss the telephoto. I love the telephoto for taking- and I said in my piece like it's great for kids and pets. Like you, you don't have to move to get to the scene, and that is constantly disrupting shots with kids and and I don't know other things: don't have kids and pets. I it's not I'm not nothing, and I don't want you to feel like I'm leaving you out of this review

waiting for the many in my particular reason, for that is I miss having small phones. I, like big phones. Forget, but otherwise I dont really need a big found him happy too small funds on waiting to see what the many my own particular thing is. Are you know funds or sometimes I'm carrying too? So I want one of them to be small. So one thing what do you do in your reviews that I don't often do? Is you pick one specific feature to really zero in I explain and like you don't need to worry about all the yeah they're like running on every single other. Thank has your dare to talk, but that one big feature- and a freeway. Sardinia is Toby vision. We should start with five g and I went to met life stadium, yeah to test five g per fastest, a fast five g service, is really only in big public spots, like the three We in dollar met like stadium. This pole spaces with Verizon ultra wide ban, five g antennas and radios ever

on twitter is like Joanna, obviously left a lightning cable on the field, because last night Daniel Jones went track. Almost an eighty or touch enron, interrupted the twenty and it's obviously jones fault, did you do that stating well here. Is that It actually was not at met life stadium, his on the giants, aces the stadium called the leg yeah, despite new mars that I'm a stadium reporter, I'm not by you know chances are. He was practising this week at met life. Maybe that's what tripped him up. anyway, carry on five g. I mean it was no brainer. I just I. I just love hate five g, so much and the hype from last week's or two weeks ago was a presentation. I sat here like very angry at that presentation and I just felt like I had to let it out someplace, even though my editor was like nobody

about five g dont focuses review on five g. Don't you so much testing around five g and, as I know, I'm just going to there's so much five g and these seven days and I'm just gonna, live at the polls and I just love five g, but I also hate it oh, it's interesting about, the stadium is its. It is literally be one millimetre way, This case from like yup that I get that that makes sense. You ve got a huge number of people. Wifi isn't gonna hold up, they ve got it a climate of sight to the towers and there like in a space where, like your guaranteed to like not be, can a block away because you're sitting in a sports day watching a game I told agree. I had a couple of hours: is of how I wanted to do this, but also had done the video now twice where I sit at the local five g tower and just live there, because, but the truth is, is no one's ever going to do that. No one is ever going to really use that five g tower that they're putting up near you unless you happen to be walking by that tower or your car connects to the tower

some point off in the future. We shall still don't really understand why these towers are putting being put up where there put up in these cities. Stadiums I get. Other types of arenas makes a ton of sense like just public spaces, Where you know there are going to be a lot of people and use we sure, like we, don't have real uploads yet on millimeter, wave or really on five g network. But actually My life had a good conversation with the guy who's in charge. Erin he's he talked about how they trying to enable uploads yeah I mean. Also like who doesn't want to be in an empty stadium journalists. hard seemed amazingly tool. It was so cool. It was. I like good, didn't believe it I like got there is like oh yeah. This is. This is really happening. We ve all used like a fire I've been using five hundred phone, said medium effects She got really deep into five g on this one and it got into details that I could have gotten into with an earlier android phone, but I dunno it felt like this was the moment, because now it's real. I really liked that

by the way did I was like. Yes, I was like a leader is really going on five g mail variety as a millimeter wave network, which has also referred to, is also wide banner. You'd have you be, but you have to literally be on the right street corner to get it we're out. Shooting the can. like tell your readers. Everything verses, beware, it's all in here, but I've gotta, lichens sweating I've words, then you will not understand what I'm saying well because they said it was we're going to have a metaphysical discussion on the nature of the real and then we can have an epistemic, a discussion about the meaning of five g because they said that five g is real. Now, so is my podcast? That's how it's Oh sorry, flossy talk with determined other than going to a stadium. Did you have a that? I was actually relatively impressed with even the sub five g because I felt the networks are saturated. Yet when you went out till it go, look for five g. Did you find it?

and where there times when you just had It- and you didn't know it like, It- has become normal. Yet are you still hunting it down? I know you both have different answers to this. I will go first, So here is my situation with five g, which is odd, but put aside the fact that I went to my life to get alter, why band millimeter wave, gee, because I really wanted to do that for the video I actually agree with you. It's like it is a real use kay. but I live in jersey. City in my area. They are putting up millimeter, wave cells everywhere. Ok, I live down the block from eight giant brand new millimeter wave Paul from verizon. Ok, I have to just step outside my door and I can get a thousand down. Ok, when I stepped back inside my door. That's my stoop! Ok! When I go back inside my door, I fall back to empty, so I go from like a thousand to thirty. So that's one situation then

when I like walk around my area? Sometimes I'm in five g territory right, especially when I'm moving further away from that millimeter waves out like that, are now in a couple feet dumb, but when millions a couple feed but like maybe a hundred feet down the street and then I get five g by those speeds- are pretty comparable to verizon ye speeds in my area, so I dont necessarily feel like I'm seeing any in between l, tee and millimeter wave. Then out in one more thing about my week, I went to princeton new jersey to host a conference. Beautiful prince in new jersey is actually very beautiful air and I did have the five key indicator and I decided to test that five do some six mill as a sub six verizon, five g, and I was like ok, let me let me see what I'm getting on my lt eleven pro and those speeds were pretty comparable to so it's a mixed bag. Near you can tell us about the experience and rural america dear

we'll run managerial thing. I care I cared about it before and now I really care about it. Are we left new york city? We moved upstate because his imogen! I have no I've horrible service here. There's no eighteen t signal at our house and all there's two bars of rising lt. The phone is fine on lt to get me in wide sub six for eyes and five g. I have to drive at least forty five minutes you did at once in an opposite into the city, to shoot our view and do that day of testing. I've found the in two of the sweet ass. Unlike you can't extrapolate this, which is why it's not in the review times in my eighteen he lp phone would outperform verizon. Just like, up there sitting next to each other head to head. The elsie is ten or fifteen megabits faster Then there were times the rise in five g nationwide in new york, in the middle of our office, building in studio, indeed our wishes, like it's kind of a big black.

box, in the middle of a building vicky down in a say, we're a team to elsie could just never be so there's just ass. I hear a mixed bag and theirs was very fond dieter told me that across the street at a millimeter wave intent on it from our office in its We like you, and you can like see that you can see em I walk across the street and waiting for the ultra wide indicator to light up, and I'm just like waving the phone at the top of the building. That's me all the time and then I'm like twenty two hundred down yeah, okay yeah, now that the poll by me at three thousand down If not, it is incredible when it works, but it just and seem there's something about it. It does not seem useful or real, well useful. As the big thing, I called it. A concept car like

thing that makes you go who I could totally. I totally want that, but they never actually make the concept car. It's just a concept car and like only only very rarely do they think is the thing that they actually produce mass produce as cool as the concept car, and that's how I feel about alternate band, it's not just arise and other carriers have got it, but we must have been testing and verizon anthony. How me about all this inconsistency is I dont think a single review, I don't think a single journalist, said: oh yeah, you want. Because it has five g literally everybody that I've read has said yeah I mean if you gonna, buy it by it for any other reason, but don't buy it just for five g yeah. Things? I wanted to talk about their one is what do you actually deal with it cause? I made a big fuss. I think we talked about this and that last part here I was on dieter, but I spent a lot of the summer or the second august- testing five g and trying to figure out what are we actually going to use this for in a smartphone, because the carriers,

in all my conversations with them have zero answer other than download sorry. They have one answer downloading things fast and we don't really do that that much so I kept kind of going after what would we use this foreign at I did. My five g are vps, where I hooked up all these gadgets to one personal hotspot on a phone, but and with this one- and I like that you point down you're a view to the personal hotspot, because I had a really good experience with that in the middle of that life stadium. We're out actually connected my laptop and I'm getting like the phone was proud getting a thousand down right from the field? Much faster in the stands, but I connected my laptop to the phone and was able to get like four hundred on the on the laptop, which is much better than seen with other phones. You has also pointed out faced image I'm not really sure that a huge plus, but I do think that the hotspot thing is an actual use that we would use millimeter way for the so apple said they treat the wifi on the phone to make the connection faster.

when you use it ass, a hot spot and also will support by sex as out spot in it in the. U s, it's faster than usb can ever be which is a very funny because you can definitely get gigabit usb adapters for your macbook. Absolutely can do that faster than lightning yeah right lightning is actually the cap on this, and I want to see it and I don't want to be like em we're gonna put you as we see it, a phone calls are trying to get up and such that whole conversation was very elliptical there like red the wifi faster than usb, and we are it's kind of like is it like. as like huge implications for every mac that you sell and that's why we presently a couple more things before we take a bite, neil, you are really worried about battery life and I found that battery life as it not affected by it, gee I'm muster on ultra white band and then make it will, if you,

bang on ultra white band. You will definitely have a seat on the battery, but otherwise fiji is that basically equivalent ability and most my testing, if you're on a subjects yeah it. I am. I put the sign in their view because I feel like we have to say what happened yet so yeah the day that I was in new york city, with the found starting the full charge and by like too Three p m, after all the testing and shooting and using the phone that we had done a total of two and a half hours of screentime and eighteen percent battery, which is horrible, I think this is representative of anything hammering the modem and using the camera time? I do not, and if you wanted my most used applesauce day it was literally like safari, speed test here. It's not right. That's all right at home when I've just been using found. I've kept it off my wifi and used what poor, prize and elsie. We have gets a little less than my eleven prayer, which has a bigger of eleven from accidents. A bigger, better, and I think either you were saying that android of five ships in m, have I've been, It's not like the early days of

t yet where the funds actually got really hot me died right away its basic. fine. But I do have just general concerns that what people are we to do when they get a five year found is seek out the fastest five g. They can get that stadium example. Millimeter weight is one of the greatest stadium. Often hat happens for two people, stadiums Batteries die yeah, but did you see me? I went. I had the whole the whole battery charging area to myself, so there's no problem the battery charging kiosk vendor is about to have a boom in business, but no it totally under millimeter wave being kills and hammers. The battery As someone who has spent a like better half of days, a millimeter wave. Paul I watch it die. I can see it go down like, especially we download tests downloading who episodes are two seasons of breaking bad, which is counselor busily for gigabytes, but it was my two I think was like three and a half minutes

minutes backing. That was, fifteen percent drop in the phone get warm and you feel thing eating their energy. The phone I mean it's. It's crazy speeds, it's crazy! performance, eyed, and I agree with you. People will seek this out, but it's not going to be the typical It's like normal days. I'm I'm fine with this phone. I'd still think my eleven got a little bit more. It could be a mental thing I keep like trying to like separate, but I I think the I've got a little bit more, like maybe five to ten percent. More. For me, The end of the day, I was greater than five. percent only eleven, but I mean the yeah. That thing is also a beast. If that phone is, I think in comparison like that's the other thing about the lateness of this phone, like it's just comparatively to that eleven. It just feels so light and nice and small and small. This is a great place to take a break and where to come,

ak and we're going to talk about hdr and dolby vision. I'm not coming back for that. Support for the show comes from the podcast, but this is small. Business next generation in this new donkey series from amazon follow for teams of aspiring entrepreneurs as they compete in the rice, university business plan, competition pitching their best business ideas to top theses and investors for a chance to win up to three men. in dollars for their start. Ups, co, host, andrea, Marquez and mitch. Gilbert are your guides. Who will have what it takes to succeed? This is small business next generation is out now go. Listen on your favorite podcast app and subscribe to keep up to date right riddles at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced that we raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflect

our prices due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of mint, unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. Men, mobile dot com, slash, switch new activation in front payment for three month plan required taxes in these extra additional restrictions apply, seem mobiles outcome for full terms. So like I was saying both of you focus on different in your reviews, new tend to focus on what they, like the key feature that you really want to describe a new. I you, decided. You really wanted to get into and explain her on. Don't even I feel think it's a tradition for you when you're view an iphone. You find some topic to go really deep on a minute. Regret asking you this, but can you in thirty seconds or less say just for people. It may not be familiar what is doubly vision, yeah and we at a time because well for a first I'll just say I knew youtube is a luxury. I knew you two would go deep on five g, so I could nerd out over here so that right I feel very lucky to to know that

what do the job that's ever ass, dummy, and high dynamic range in video is a technology that encompasses both the capture you capture the video master it in an literally the displays you wash it on and what it means is a brighton of the displacing way brighter than before it can work. He told the brides and may show you more colors so way I am ways when talking about it is. Standard? Video is a pretty dim light bulb and forty eight boxer crayons revision is a very bright light bulb and sixty four box of crowns by sixty four, I mean one billion loud laugh solely thirty seconds. I was watching a clause for the area for all of our listeners on his part. Has I was holding up the clock to that we're on soon. If you were a computer person like fifteen years ago reign in computers went from having a colors on their to no colors on our screens to eight two to fifty six to millions,

That was a meaningful thing that happened: computers, everytime, I stepped through all of those colors. We started with a green monochrome apple too, and we went through see J D, J, w g g. I, like all that stuff yeah in that, has more or less stalled. Yet right I mean there's like multiple waters now in front of e g eight, if any, and how big and curb your screen is like it's that suffers more or less stalled, dolby vision. Hdr, is like the next generation of that stuff we're: gonna show more colors, the displays are going get brighter and where to me, the talk too to everybody, the chain from a camera to the screen about that so I'm excited about it. Yet why did you want to focus on this because, like to me screens are ok? Well, there's like four five things you can improve prove contrast ratio by making o lead. You put more pixels on it. which is a sales on loves to do you make a brighter? You can improve the color or you do the thing that sort of encompasses all of that and that's still the

I didn't comes down to the reason. It's exciting is the things you described our ways proves the content, you already had right, you ve got a video in sixteen by nine hd, it's got out many pixels our much resolution, Well, how many colors and then you're going to monkey with the screen and how you process that picture to make it look better than it did on a another screen rather raw materials. Working with is the same right. Ok it's a long way or lead screens high resolution, pixel density, all that stuff is improved, tile the high water mark. If you want to be, if you want to make it even better, you have to change the actual movie, if the chain, the video itself to push on the capabilities of the display that you have gotten so adobe vision, hd are in general represents. Ok, we're going capture higher quality video that demand

a higher quality screen and then work. I think, what's important with the iphone. Is at its on by default, rights are now millions of people are gonna start generating this higher quality video that will demand better screens always places it's all that other phones, hindu, everybody's, remind me to the vote. The latest sunny experience can do it but she was sure video and it's like well yeah, that's nice advice on expiry of funds, the apple scale. It means either it's true. who defends the industry around them because they ship so many phones, so when they turn it on something on by default, the initial tested and around them Where did you see like the biggest difference in this type of capture? two places wine, if you are out I very bright I'll just see more detail. Things will blow Less video itself, will be brighter if you're out of here I'm in the woods like falters, like lots of colors,

so like sunsets, you'll, see less creation like it just more, invented and brighter with more detail. That's one place the other one and at this is like the classic. Each year is like at night with me on stuff, like variants like at every every hd. Our demo loop is like a car at sunset and at night with me and stuff, and that is that when there's a reason for that, that's looks remarkable, like you taken hd video of a neon sign at night in the city and its reining in, like you know what that feels like an we captured a regular cell phone. It's fine your hiv, the of it it's like bright, invented right a long time ago in ac, our first came out. It's the s. A t v maker took me into a room, and the person We have had we're gonna play an explosion for you, and it's can be so bright tat. You will feel heat, even though your brain will tricky and feeling that happen yeah. I was crazy,

Where was I we're watching the fifth element, which is like a ridiculous movie and like the exposure and often as well? Now like a hundred inch ultra right display. But that's like that. End of the experiencing get can from from hdr? Ok. So you we ve, talked about the screen technology, improving we've talked about the camera being able to create a better file that actually is like take advantage of the best screen technology. The problem is there is a third part of the story, which is how do you get that file to show up on that screen. and it seems to me that the part where, like it's the complicated, Is what you do then maintain iron control of your ecosystem and build the walls ever higher like another apple thing apple, makes the phone apple makes so the devices that you might share it if you're, in a family with family planning Joanna said the whole families in eight new iphones this year. That is, workable kind of hire for apple to have they make apple tv They make my message which, in the united states, is very popular

they ve got away to not only create the video in short on the displacement, send it to other places right up problem is that everyone else has come on flat. Right too, So dolby vision is a standard, but apple has a new. I mean it's a format, war, underneath this all has a very quiet format. War I who and why it between? apple and samsung? Indulging it's like a multi part format, war, the reason it most people don't experience. It is because the only in generating this video up until now have been, major studios using their own streaming services or going to netflix right. in all the tv vendors are very motivated, just made that word free quietly in the background there has been a format were. perhaps I can give you is german. Last last, superbowl fox did the superbowl in enforced hd are alike, only one device supported supported the roku who supported and then The road is sold out at night, but he couldn't by eroding that everyone's robe and I've apple to meet in a night. That's

as fox chose to broadcast in an hdr format called hiv which no elsewhere else, then. So it's a bit quiet format, worsen explosions, apples built a new format, if you have an apple tv, it's very wonky. You have to run. Puts me in what is a sub optimal condition to wash. your own issue, our finnish The phone over airplane if you have another tv with airplane, to forbid the coin. Mostly one should be able to do it, but I think teeters wound mine, mine won't like I think they're, just like a lot of the early adopters of forty k. Hdr tvs are learning like we bought a computer two years too early yeah I can't do all the suffering just expected tv be able to do This is why we, and by a tv this is with the upcoming councils, the xbox and play station like there's a bunch like were section five ready as a car you are you really so I'm going to wait to upgrade my tv until I council shake out, but, like another question here is

Don't take this the wrong way with the? How much is it actually matter at its heart the thing on a tv because dont the vast majority of people watch these things on the things they created a with fixed watch it on phones, yeah, im not sure I'm at that point, an interview in the fourteen is smart most, the apps are smart. Most of the video you share will be in str, and that's because the the wrap it up on toby, have made steps down intelligently, where it's like built to step down. So it's on a standard hold, each algae, hybrid log This is the one where we go deep on review suffer. I got hybrid law gamma. What is reality there in that built by the bbc in a job broadcaster, an k, so they send out hd video and it would play back with any conversion unless the artemis so apple it happens, I'll use that format then I built the rest to be in vision. On top of it, that's why it's new, this version television, one built in our text,

If you send a video often I found that the reason it doesn't have to convert before he sent. It is because the format is made to be broadly compatible, but that recent as easy when he sent it to instigate Emily sensitive topic, and to a friend over messages when you airdrop it to a mac when you airdrop it to another fund like it'll, just be asked your version, that's the thing that happens to you, and so yet Does this one feature matter at this in, in time, no because you're mostly can send sdr video everywhere, but it dies because he spent so much time on it. Right, it's also it just like it's the it's obviously the beginning of hd, video becoming more prevalent than sdr video. because overruns and start making this thing well. This is also an example, a joanna you- and I talked about this- where, like you do all the work, you do all the testing. You know all the things that doesn't make it to the video or to the written page. For us. We like sometimes pick a thing to like make it to the written page, because-

phone not sending out each year which is expected to it, seems like a big actual and well yeah. We would we with it's nice to know why, because that helps people understand what the problem is. Potentially leads him a solution. At the very least, if everybody understood and the scope of the problem and where to apply pressure to fix it? goods. Also, it's it's another marketing thing: railways, something that was marketed, that you think you're gonna, get actually. There is a lot of fine print around why you're not actually gonna get it phronsie far georgi veggie find you here and even this, like, I I honestly Neil I'm reading your view. I like, oh so, like I wasn't even looking at the dolby hdr video on my mac, nope like that, isn't a good thing, I didn't know that, as the reviewer this phone? Now? How can we expect real normal people. Now that we're

real, a normal by people who don't dig into the staff, don't think I just like. I should have this great new video on my mac. Now, because I got this new phone and it shoots that oh look, how beautiful it is, I'm getting this beautiful kind of new video, but you're, not yeah. It's so like the mac question this is really interesting. Right there, like any mac, that runs big, several pay. This video we have not yet It's our area, we don't go and come out also demur ending that everyone with a mac update their operating system to play. Your video is That is an enormous ask yeah. It mike many! We have it. We it's almost mandatory that you run out and no s version that seven years old I've been run in the big sir beta I actually had to. I would completely wiped one of my max to get off of it because it was so buggy used to be that like what, new version of a makeovers came out or even with windows. It still the case, you would say, don't and saw the first one wainwright and that absolute

we applies this year when the next version tobacco activists do not install it on day. One just don't do it turn off otto updates same thing. I hand over the second beta on my and it just would like it could not understand an impotent extra microbes, import like it was so deeply buggy and, like I just stopped using it anyway, you're thinking. I did not know when I was reviewing the zoom out of that Joanna his phone makers, all of them, but in particular apple hate, admit, their phones, are computers and have stream? We well known computer problems. What are we talking about here, I made a file format that is hard for other computers to read. I might as well be tat microsoft. Word rightly reminiscent of italian excel not be opened in numbers properly, like whatever, like idiots, It's happening here and because we don't talk about the phones like computers, all the time when, knowledge the computer problems are like that's so complicated, and what is it?

yeah. I just have a newer pdf than you like. That's all that I, Well, I don't want to turn this into an eighty. I see conversations addressing all issue prepare this whole discussion of not treating the iphone like a computer apple really really doesn't want. This is why they don't tell us how much ram asean, the phones right that once you get There is an admission that this thing has limitations in the same way that other computers have imitations. I think that's why they didn't give us just like a real file system until relatively recently real the refugee. What is the nature of real told you we're gonna, go there as long as we're talking anything else about television you I don't get it at that Don't it's the same strategy don't buy because it has it, but you will like it when he's ok, the can As for another thing I focused on, and I actually we haven't really talked a ton about process for how we camera reviews, reviews of the cameras on phones. I do not four hundred photos

for this review give or take, and we put him like room album I do as you can look at the ex if data, and then you can share that album. It's much much more convenient way than just sharing a google dry folder and then only looks at it and starts critiquing stuff, and then you know we're like ok, well, We now know how this camera performs and what it does, but the thing that I've been thinking about lately not just because of this I ve told you. It is because of the phenomena viewing right now, which is the razor five g. Is that results thing that we do? really only tells at best half the story of a camera view, because the other half is the experience of the camera. And whether or not the camera consistently does what you expect a too when you click the shutter button, the iphone might lose out on a limb I'd shots to the pixel five. In certain cases it totally does, but what the iphone

as better than most other android phones, pixel and maybe samsung excluded is, I know is going to do when I had a shudder, but I know exact What's going to happen, I can I am not surprised by the result of the photo that I cut and its we We say it every year and it seems like it's not a big deal, but that's fundamental the experience of an iphone of an iphone camera is that you know it's gonna do yeah, you know what one the one part reviewing this phone set. I thought was particularly made difficult by the pandemic was reviewing the camera I because I love reviewing phone cameras, as you all know, and like part of the is we, to run around outside with four cameras for phones. You find cool thing sick photos of, I get it. Photos of a lot of people which is very hard to do. And here I don't put my family in the review and they don't want to

I'm posing for photos in front of like weird lightning conditions. For me, there's not not injure where's like a virgin. Who am I to be back we're like santa here and, like you look at our last year after views? every sir arthur. Professor mario advocate is in them it was like a tradition that- and I just like, went and had a photo shoot for the last four phones. So I looks like more as a united in their views here. So nobody And then we come back to the office and we have big displays in or our team in our tartar fatigue, like we all just a yell at each other, what what? What pictures are better and why? Oh yeah- and now it's like a slack room debate, yeah it's like images, very german braun skeleton another literally at the earliest halloween's held by irish? Really miss that this year I feel, like I'm less confident and what The camera this year, For those reasons I took a lot of photos. I looked at them and all look like general from our horror movie, this all like chill and toys alone outside

in a rain yeah, but I just you know I feel like There wasn't a lot of change this year, so not that worried about it yeah. The change is that the aperture changed that rigger wasn't there for me this year, yeah yeah Joanna told me about the skeleton okay. So to your point about not having people to take photos app, I fear death when we went to met life that there would be no one till I take photos of liking portrait test, the portrait mode. So I bought this skeleton to try and get internet life but that did not happen three way they rejected the skeleton we just couldn't carry ever We have a skeleton had to be left behind. Oh my god and I had, inside yeah, because I was testing low light in my neighborhood and like this was like. There are skeletons everywhere, cause it's going to be halloween, yep, and so now I have Skeleton in my house, amazing and my son loves it, but he was not used in the media. The things you pick up, there's a reviewer

It's just it's very strange. I have a bunch of just like candles and little weird like fake and just like stuff to put in the background of photos like did they did? They only exists. I can put on the back of a photo, a smartphone tat by now, said the camera, the camera. you're too, prevents a very minor. Yet sir, like we were here? the figure something out for the promax yep, but for these cameras dieter your point about apples very consistent apples restraint in making the camera app more complicated but making Make better photos just by locating the button, I think like pretty commendable, gets really dumb examples they added on the pro, because, as light aren't, you can take a night portrait. They usually do it just like. Does it I do wish that had like a little bit more of an indicator one or does he have to switch the one excellence? Your choices are between the two excellence in portrait and then there's like the night mode icon. You just click it, and then it's a night mode and the one excellence. That's it

it's that's the only thing you have to do and you see the little night mode icon pop up. I I just my overall feeling about night mode has been that I wish that icon was a little bit more in your face and said like night mode anywhere turning it on your leg instead of images. Like a little sun, it's a little circle that tells us nothing about. It indicates what it is. It's like right. It's a yellow circle like alright, but I just in comparison to that. The pixel it said it. Auto, might on the pixel seems really fatally to me now. Getting it auto night in portrait motives like yet one more fiddle. They fixing the pixel five by the way it does night does does no by default. Now, if you want want, it shows up the title like you can turn it off, but it's their yeah. I just couldn't get it. I had a picture five. It's like. I literally couldn't get the pixel that do you don't touch

and not being able to get a phone to take night mode. It was difficult for me to get the iphone twelve to go into night mode. The iphone eleven would be like, I don't see shit and it would go into night mode, but yeah from talk like that that brighter aperture, it's not that much like dancy for will tell you it's like not that much faster, it definitely was dropping into night mode. Less often some combination of the lens am, I think there They I do actually give them credit for improved, photo processing with their processor and their offer them. Instead, that not only on the wide, because if the like, I found that the wider sense but again more lay less times it's going tonight night. It was too the lesson the ultra wide, but in general you know how cameras, always oliver disappointing, I'm a happier that their there than most telephoto. I I. and more than telephoto, but I also don't have kids anyway one last topic before we wrap, because there is one other big new thing that I think might be the most like interesting upgrade for a lot of people's data.

experiences mag safe, oh yeah, I don't know it was funded to go back to charging testing charge times like that was those enjoyable, but the accessory ecosystem. Curiosity that looks like Joanna. You pointed out that the while it if you'd, aren't careful just pop off when you put the following your pocket actually happening to me a lot now. Even before. This review? I use while it's like this, but I had like bible. them on amazon like stick them to the back of a case yeah but yeah. It just falls off like it. If it doesnt fall off like that easily, but I'm not. I shouldn't, have to think about it might add. So if I slide it into a tighter pair of pants or even last night I was just I dunno. My son was just like playing with it. It just fell off, love the idea in theory. I love a great while a case for the back of this. Some hoping. Maybe some third party makes it with some stronger magnet in the wallet part that might on it, because the magazine, charger, as you pointed out, is extremely solid. Stick that to a fridge and it sticks. This is not as sticky I mean it.

It's ok! I got up and putting it on I have a filing cabinet, that's a magnet, and so I was testing on on here some just hoping that you system of excess areas. This makes great things. So I trusted the eagles system for cases in car mountain? Maybe wild things will be ok, I think the fact that our time, the diagnosis, I'm worried about is actually the charging ecosystem. Oh yeah, that's in a nightmare third way Others can make charters that will charge at the faster fifteen wants, but you do have to have magnets to do it, which is, I think, clever, because it sure is that there is less efficient, He lost that it they're it, because, if miss align whilst charging is radically inefficient but that apples in charge. They have him if I programme- and it also means that we now have samson doing relatively fat standard. Chee charging for fast charging pixel has its own custom fast. Charging standard for the pixel stand one plus some kind of weird warp charging? That's got also plays with amps watson a funny way, while came out with a phone. It has a different kind of fast charging, and now we have,

mag, safe, tight wireless, ass charging wireless down. I'm a friend all these are different standards for why fast charging better. Did she compatible with they're, not the same thing? Is she I don't see a snares wanna, come to you how you haitian units ones, I interesting I we have an apple alot of crap, because urban, ecosystems in it's because of em. If I, so I just come back to the fact There are no smart connect, your keyboard for the ipad, the single obvious accessory in the world for one of the most part kinds of computers in the world. In no one will use apples. Connector lodge attack makes a couple logical. yeah and I think that's just because, like I dunno Eddie huh like went over there and was like I dunno like I dunno, I truly do not understand why, Ecosystem doesn't exist and we have heard from vendor outer vendor that emma fires, like a new surrender next anyway, I want to believe I don't know. rarely do at the histories and there at the same time its charging in

a lot of power into a phone with battery has inherent safety issues in, like a kind of, an apple to tell me that charges in a blow at my phone right, unlike don't think their instincts are to be more controlling I think that's why you see all these proprietor systems everywhere, not just for speed in margin on accessories because, if you just let any random, put it, on the back of the phone, the possibility that the battery will explode is there yeah yeah? Well, I have a I have a couple of concerns about the magsafe wireless charger and you guys wrote a great piece about how this could be the signal to like that, the non port phone which here, I think we are not seeing any good signs here that that is ready, ok, there's like, zero signs. Not only is it slow, which you pointed out to it, is it's really not as fast as a regular fifteen watch cards or that you plug it into your phone, like there's, definitely, loss of power.

The design of the bag safe charger to me is not good. Like I tried to put that thing on the night stand at iccat falling off. The nightstand like I dont want something that's like day, it's it's! It's more! It's more similar to the apple watch, circular mandate, ridiculous thingy! That is an actual wireless charger, a wireless charger, should sit on your desk. It shouldn't be flopping all over the world It's a fallen, it should sit there a long cord and it should be able to charge when I want it was so. What neither do Joanna is you need to three m table to palm touchdown and then use the process You can trust on the sticks to the dusk. Fine, great idea I shouldn't have to like get a magnet to put the magnet on top of to put the other magnet on and the cord land

it's a really big thing, because it's really have that option. Yeah, that's why, as street and across the the football field like people are like marketed like the ugly, why do you need it to be longer like you needed to be longer to actually plug it, the wall to sit on your desk. It's not like you can even attach a longer cord to it. You can, and it doesn't come with, which the actual charger in the box, which ridiculous, but you don't think that it's just made to be plunged into a laptop, that's kind. I, what rights, it's that length readjustment pioneer laptop and, like you know it, it's it's. A very confusing product is very confusing I think it is so much prepare potential yeah like I want that product to be great, at another. The physics will allow it my belief and appleton building, the system is not high right like they just don't do it alive. So do you think It may be the the move here, as if the ecosystem or a magsafe doesn't develop that maybe they they don't get rid of the lightning part they just wait and see- maybe maybe after they're hell bent

controlling? Every dollar that flows in around the iphone great it's all the continuum from asked policies to everything. Next, the iphone needs to pay us attacks that some of us. that is all just what they do, that. W one in that headphones right. Like that, sir, they saw the iphone and they take a cut of everything that happens in and around the iphone. It is a very good business. I've not even criticising it. Tat was smart. We have done, that do. I have I believe that the big vibrant open ecosystem, that you would need to get rid of the port from the phone we'll ever exist like that, is a huge wait and see immense baseless employs question it. My hope is, they do it. They just decide to go as some kind of smart connector that connects via magnet again pogo pins, maybe yeah occupants, but what I used to found the did. That is called the the hp veer and it worked great.

then how do I was charging and it did not have a usb support on it. Just had looked simpler, pins in a custom, little usb, cable orkut, that's that's like the best when it for me. I know what I actually hot for actually want to receive, for we all just want a: u s be c4 or join. Our union must be support for the iphone. Yes, we're eight, who what other team would there be? Others there's there's many people in my mentions that are not on the team. I mean yes way, that's what we should have now. I just invested in a ton of usb see the lightning courts right. I just like bought five and put them in every room in the house, yeah like no. I just want a written usb city. This bc, cords like I, can use with everything else I have here that we have uniform future, has never gonna come for us by the. U s we see is another ecosystem that they didn't make develop value that vat ecosystems and mass, but it cleaned up a little bit about the solemn ass. Well a mess of bad standards that so I participated in as an excellent place to add and the podcast Joanna thanks. So much for coming to working people find your work.

scan, say Joanna's turn on. Scram and twitter and the wall street journal new law. Thank you also for coming on. If people want to follow you, how do you recommend they do that the first country good, that's a good spot for it thanks. You too thanks my friends. That is the end of the show thanks so much for me. I m Joanna for coming on. Thanks also- producers and marina, sophie ericsson, we'll be back. Of course with the verge cast chat show on friday, and I never do one more of these special directors cuts of reviews next tuesday, so stating for that and then coming very soon, but hell's new showed decoder very excited to hear what he's got in store for us support for this. Shell comes from the podcast vis. Its mouth is

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