Hey, I'm ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced that we raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating. You that's right. We're cutting the price of men unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. It meant mobile dot com, slash switch new activation and prompt payment for three month. Plan required taxes in these extra additional restrictions apply seem at mobiles outcome for full terms. Support for the show comes from shop, apply to run a successful on my business. All you need is an idea and shop if I can take care of the rest shop. If I is a commerce platform to help run your business and their flexible templates and powerful tools make building and managing

On my present, simpler than ever, you can sign up for a one dollar a month, trial period at shop if I'd dot, com, slash, vocs business, all lowercase visit shop if I'd dot com, slash box business to see of shop. If I can take your business to the next level today, that's shop, a five hour come slash, vocs business However, each year from the recast on this, energy episode. Very timely are excellent policy. Reporter Mckenna Kelly joins me to talk fcc, commissioner jeffrey starts. He is brand. He's one of the newest commissioner, as I see it, was just a point that I think are a hundred days ago, president tromp he's a democratic commissioner We talk to him about the t, mobile, sprint merger, but what's of waterways, location, tracking robo call All of the things in fcc, commissioner, has to think about is a manage our nations. Various networks is

job creation starts, it extremely chill. Did you got into it with us? We came out, I'm pretty hard really interesting and are you the way here It's about. He was a deal J lawyer before he really. He thinks about things differently than I think other assisting people we ve talked to, really thinks about how to make sure accessing eyes is equal. Further, that's really interesting frame. When we asked him a lot of china's spying on us through a wallet so check it out. This is fcc, commissioner, Geoffrey starks we're here with FCC, commissioner geoffrey starks. How are you, sir great great to be here- I'm joined by Mckenna Kelly, our policy reporter happy to be back, so I'm gonna start with the real softball. it, actually is and audio my god ginger. I like it. We you're like the new guy. The fcc. Yes just started. Yes, like fire I five months ago. No, no, not even I think I just cross day, one hundred so about a little over three months. Your point about president trump, Although you know I'm an undemocratic seat,

So I'm MA am recommendation from senator humour to the president. The president then accepted the recommendation, so I was nominated by president trump, I'm officially a presidential appointee confirmed by the senate, but a democratic state So what does that day? Look like the eager point. Do you get a phone call? Is it like the nobel prize, like the middle of the night, As for the confirmation for the appointment for the appointment, is it a letter? Does like a does? The military show up at your door for the dirty secret? Is there was a lot of lead up to actually getting the appointment, and so you had to interview, of course, with Senator Schumer had to enter interview. Of course, with folks in white house and so the actual appointment win. It was accepted by the president. Yes, I did get a phone call that the president was going to nominate mia. Who has a phone call from the phone call was from the head of p p, o presidential personnel operations? Oh wow, I didn't even know there was

Yes, BP up, I am always in curious nodded. discusses the mechanics of the lad. I got to take you under the hood, that's good! The p p. I gotta find this person what is your back and about security? As you see before, you really in a pretty big net neutrality case just give people censier history yeah. so I went to yell for law school I'll start even further than that which is right after undergrad worked for a couple of years in the private sector and then worked for an illinois states in its staff committee. It's then a little known, senator named Barack Obama stat when he was a state senator in illinois and volunteered for his us senatorial campaign, and so I like to always say that I was giving him some some guidance on ways to vote even way back. When then went to yale for law school graduate from there worked in the private sector for a couple of years then joined the obama administration, where I was senior counsel to the deputy attorney.

General. So this is the gym. Call was my boss right under our colder and handled a number of matters. They are civil, some criminals from national security matters and then god brought over to the fcc were yes, I was working on universal service was working on early. net neutrality cases and then was this whole kind of appointment ended up happening and the now, of course I am, I a full blown commissioner. That's it. Three you like telecom tact nerd before early slid into this world. Yes, it was a little bit of both when you abstract what we do even at the fcc. These are really issues of equity issues of inclusion. And so was working on those even back, and when I was a you know, pointy and so did come across some telecom issues. While I was there

I d, o j and then ended up really being the tipp of the spear on a lot of issues where I was in the singer: leadership team of the fcc enforcement bureau- that was about three years before I was named here to be a commissioner, and so these issues- I have always been important to me. You know. Even today, I I gotta say the most important thing that I see every day is making sure that there is equity in broadband who has internet who doesn't I think it is something that drives our economy is impacting. Who has a voice who doesn't have a voice? And I I deeply believe that you know the disconnected. Are disaffected here in america and and and you can understand why, because they feel like they're being left behind. So one of the things that I really do focus on every day now is making sure that we're getting the internet out to more people so that they can have the connections that they need to serve their lies, lives and participate in this modern democracy, really, I think, is, is what's really at stake

and that touches on everything right that touches on net neutrality, that touches on five g rollouts. It touches on fiber deployment, exactly right and even further than that. It touches on tele medicine, I think, is something that is going to be deeply important to americans going forward. It touches on closing this digital divide. It is something that is so important, and I really think you see you know the fact that a lot of americans feel left behind feel isolated is, in some part wrapped up in whether they are able to connect in the way that modern americans should be able to do. Okay, I want to get deep into that stuff. It's where we talk on russia, s out I'm, but I want to start with something to his friend. a little bit sillier and way more annoying, which is robocalls. Yes, last week there is a new initiative announced from the sea to combat rubber calls. My red on it mckenna read on it is basically, clarifies the carriers can do the things they were already trying to do without getting into trouble that

you are we not yes, my red on it is. I do think it is a good. It is good path forward. When we're talking about rouble, calls talking about five billion calls a month, and so what does that mean? Almost over hundred ten thousand broken a second. So over the course of our conversation here there will be amassed almost five million robo. Laws and on their most benign, they are a nuisance. You're eating dinner, we're getting into a conversation and you get a robocop at their their predatory, where we know that millions and millions of dollars have been lost. In particular by elderly folks, who are so and out of money. They receive a call that their tax payments have been miss filed. You see Of course, you know you need to call us back, because your grandson is in trouble into a whole lot of issues where these calls really are predatory. What the chairman

last week was announced, something that is on the call blocking and which I think is really important. That is going to basically block some of these robots calls from getting to your phone What I would like to see even on the chairman's initiative, is that it is required here. It's permissive it they, these carriers may do it and then the other thing I think is an wasn't that it's gonna be free. You know. We know that allow I have nomo robo is, is something that has been a good initiative. I do like that. The chairman has for propose this as an opt out scheme, because we do know that a lot of folks just don't take the time to actually sign up for some services. Arabella did he see was randal stevenson use, onstage an event, Mckenna rhetoric, I didn't have no doubt and like you, I hung up from as any other roma, whose I mean the effects, to show the links that folks have gone when I was in the enforcement bureau where it was,

my job to enforce violations of the law. I would get robo calls to my landline as soon as you or spent up your official, and so it is clear that nobody is no He is immune to these the thing that I would really say is that it has changed in some sense, the fabric of our culture. You know, I certainly remember a time where you would pick up the phone when somebody called it was, it could be, even if you don't recognize a number could be. Your pastor could be your in school? They could be literally a neighbor. That's the problem with neighborhood spoofing right is. That is a call that looks like it's coming from a neighbor that you should recognize, won't pick up a a number of my area code anymore. I don't pick gonna live in my in that erika yeah. I know I know it's totally pick up a call unless I know who it is because it probably robo calls probably somebody who's not really trying to reach me, and so it something

empty seats, a number one complaint that we see year over you every year, both us and the empty sea, and so we got it. We ve gotta, be on it, so that the chairman's proposal to me looks like of air market driven proposal, which is not surprising for chairman pie. Right like take no more rules, they mark ethics, it that's that's his thing. He waves mug around it's right there is not a problem in europe. This is not about. In other places around the world. Why is it a problem I think it's a problem here. You know we have allowed our network to kind of propagate these calls, and so I think it is. It is an issue where industry needs to do part. I do not like an EU regulation, you can just like copy and paste from the other stuff, not that I know of there's not a regulatory scheme in europe that has prevented this, that we can just replicator another. And all of this is something where auto dealers have been able to produce these mass numbers of calls. We obviously have a little bit of statutory authority that we need to look into folks on the hill are are trying to help us here.

the definition of auto dealers, something that is back before us, because we didn't exactly define it right. The fcc, I think, also needs to probably criminally prosecute refer to d o j folks, who are the worst rowboat, dollars, because I don't think this is an issue that you just can be up the tax, your way out of from enforcement perspective and then like I said that we need some help from the fcc. We need some help from the hill and we need some help from industry call authentication shaken stir. I think it's something that it yeah you like that, my dear that's good the funniest background. The ssc is put forth, yeah yeah, I got it, It is something that is going to eat. You know, basically, it's, to have stopped. deregulation of a call and have almost like a passport where you know the imagination of the call in the cook, the key as it as a call for progressive down through the network. Other folks are gonna stamp that passport to make sure that this call is actually authentic. And I think it's going to change change where we are and robocalls alright does rare cause. I one to make sure

Well, I guess you're right. It's my kind of assigning earlier it's like when we write about it does surprisingly well on the side. It's like people are still making phone calls like she turn it off. Well, mean people everywhere. I travel people. Tell me people tell me why don't I have internet? I need the internet. Why is it that the fcc can't get me high speed? Broadband, which again goes back to my digital equity point, but people really focused on robo calls. I mean it is, like I said, be anywhere between a nuisance and something that drives me. crazy, and so it is something that we ve gotta choke out such around the internet site. If the author, I suspect, because I have an order in front of you that you will be able to say much about this, but yes, it's chairman pie said he would support team of one's friend. He gave a laundry list of conditions, Mckenna kind, that's too much, Ninety seven percent of americans covered by the three there's like a bunch of tie me raids, there's three years six years, there's some compliance thing. He has a plan,

t mobile is like we're all for it, but we, I don't really have any paperwork right and there's nothing to comment on so far and that's exactly right. I don't have any paperwork before me. You know the record is obviously being developed, and this is something that I second, my democratic colleagues call for this to probably put up republican commentary. This is thirty pages of additional commitments that t mobile has made, I do think that something that the public should be able to way and on, but but really I'm not gonna, be all the common about the merger itself. I do believe under our public. for standard under section three ten d. I do believe in a muscular public interest standard for reviewing of mergers. I think that's my job in the The thing that I would say just as a general framing mechanism is, you know, I think the fcc obligated not just talk about whether a merger is going to harm competition. Lots of other folks do that, including the dietrich. I think we're obligated to actually affirmatively say that competition is going to be

enhanced under our mergers and our merger review standard, so lemme lemme give you like a hypothetical from the see. If I can trick you into this awhile ago, t mobile. Nobody wants to murder stuff, cannot themselves a while ago. They wanted to merge, stating that was blocked and one of the reasons was going from four to three is bad. We are now in a situation where he might go from four carriers to three carey. Do you think the eighteenth decision was the right you know, and so do I I take your point. and obviously going to three, is very much at the crux of what we're talking about and are considered. And so I am reviewing that record in taking instruction and guidance from what was done there and thinking how it is it's a decision, that's before me, where, where, where were you in the in your career, when a t and t t mobile was going down? Are you important. I think I would have been an official at deirdre deejay real. I guess we got em

I already the office was her cake, not that I know yeah obviously you're going to get an order in front of you. Yes, that doesn't seem to be over the rumbles out of deandre yesterday that they're still looking at it very very closely. When you get an order, are you going to come back and talk to us about it? I would love to okay. Let's talk about china. Definitely yeah! That's something everybody's talking about! We can about sprinter t mobile, but everyone has something to say about china, so the so the fcc just basically said china, mobile you're out, yes, and also even less We'd brennan car, a republican commissioner called for national security agency, is to investigate the chinese telecommunications companies that are already operating at our networks. you seem to kind of agree with him on that I do. Of course. This is all subject to getting a deal J and team telecom and the executive agency to way and on whether they do see the the the same kind of national security concerns, but yeah

two weeks ago. We did not allow a to fourteen licence for china telecom and what what two forty most instead is a licence to operate within the poorest and, most critically, You know? I take the point that if china telecom had been the lowest cost carrier, they could have in fact carried sum of. U s. Government agencies, communications and if there is, as the executive agency told us, national security concerns that they have, which I agreed with. I think it is something where we're not gonna be able to allow them to operate in the? U s, and so there is china, telecom and china unit com or two additional entities that commissioner car had mentioned, and it does sound like the chairman is planning to bring those licences before us.

and I assume we would have the same standard that we would apply their soothing its appropriate here, there's other lawmakers on capital hill, who are even kind while way, a spy agency. You think this is an appropriate measure for the ep c c to get involved in the efforts you see. I think it is extremely important. It is incumbent upon us and in fact we have a distinct role to serve and protecting our communication networks under national defence is. Secondly, what the statute says as well as the safety of life and property. I think it is extremely for us to make sure that we step into the full extent of our authority? You know in just generally going back prior to the ninety six communications act. We very much had a network where there are a number of established carriers that trust It really was kind of analogous to

The feel of a small town were folks leave their doors open at night, because its there's so much trust in the interconnections had happened there. Obviously, now a technology, the neighbourhood has grown, it's almost more like a city. Now and of course we have significantly more more connections, more vulnerabilities and there are folks out there. You know I do stipulate that a significant number of carriers do have very good security mechanisms in place, but there are certainly actors out there that would take advantage of vulnerabilities, and so You know the kind of wistful small town feel of a well established network is more nostalgic now, and we have to be very much focused on making sure by twenty twenty five they're gonna be over twenty five billion. I o t devices are connected to network. We have to be focused and fit into our national security. Will you bring it by a team of ice, as so, even over the weekend, Google, a big, I o t manufacture

and am seller decided to revoke, while always enjoyed licence. Is this kind of the role you see private industry playing and so what well that's a little bit me because that was part of it. They ve got named onto the black list by the calmer secretary we have seen within the last twenty four hours that the calmer secretary it's kind of softened, that a little bit, because that is going to have such an impact on so many consumers that have weiwei devices and are they going to get android patches and are they going to be able to still, beyond the android egos, storm and google, my you know, just the reverberations are are significant, and so just within last twenty four hours that has been taken little bit. Although the executive order by the president does over the long term still stand, and I'm focus on as an epps? You see, commissioner, again that that seems to get more into what google is doing seem to get into a little bit more. The commerce lane of of

trade and whether we're going allow private actors to have agreements execute agreements with with weiwei and some of those other companies about what I'm really focused on is making sure that we have a secure network as possible, and that goes to these licences with chinese carriers, goes to the supply chain in pure m, noticed for promote proposed rule making that we have before us, and that essentially means the universal service fund. it's about a nine ten billion dollar fund that we administered at at tat, fcc, whether that and is going to allow government dollars to flow to some of these chinese companies that something that the fcc certainly has authority on and then figuring out how we can step into our nationals.

Elaine even more something that I think we actually really need to be focused on. There are a significant number of small rural carriers and we're still figuring out the scope of this that actually do have some of this chinese infrastructure in their network right now, and we need to find a way to find it fix it and, I think, fund it there. Mutations aspect of that. How do we? I guess? How do you approach? You know we're mediating mad and changing. You know that structure? So this is the right. That's that's. That's the question that down that I'm thinking through that a lot of folks are starting to think through. I know a number of senators on the hill are also very focus on this because you know that second order: the national defence authorization, act. N also tells us that going forward prospectively, we need to me

sure that we're not allowing some of this weiwei and chinese infrastructure that that could have back doors and their software built into it, is at a given? That's like, but the question I that is at the heart of this. Do you take it for a given that weiwei equipment has backdoors I don't take it for a given. I take it in the sense of of you know. I have had national security folks who have specifically told me on how they have how they think about it. What our exposure is, what our risks are and and and how seriously that they take the possibility of backdoors in our network, because, obviously we employ lots of equipment in europe, they're saying, look we're passing all the tests from the year. You know america's allies. Why don't you trust us? You know this gets into the the the trade off that weiwei has had and in frankly, how some of these small rural carriers have thought about this you know almost since twenty twelve twenty thirteen, certainly and twenty eighteen there have been clear.

unofficial warning shots that? U s is growing on more uncomfortable with allowing huawei z tee to have their infrastructure here? We allowed some of those small rural carriers to make the business is business decision themselves on where they are. gonna, come out on weiwei being the cheapest, but the highest quality where they were on the spectrum of national security, privacy versus being the cheapest cos provider here Actually that's a business decision. Inessa may have told us- and we have talked a lot of rural church now, like our costs, are gonna score sure. Does anyone you talk about equity, that's a big piece, which is why I think it is now that we have the executive order that was issued just last week. I think it is something that I am truly focused on right now. I have I'm focused on it. I have my team focused on it thinking through what is the scope of this problem? You know how much of this infrastructure is going to be at issue. How much is it going to cost too?

A ribbon replaces what's on the national security folks call it. We know that were not allowed to bring this end prospectively but retrospectively. We know that we have some this in the ground, I think of the national secure. The concern is there: we have to focus on that aspect of this as well and in our concern. Is there it's very much or for me- and I know it is also a concern of a number of folks on the hill- that we start to get a get a hold of of how we are going to remediate the national security infrastructure that we already have in our networks. Right now, in particular, with some these small rural carry on? In your view, what could, while I do to fix it Is there? Is there a way for that company to get your trust backward? The government's trust backers Yeah I mean this is a whole of government issue. It wouldn t, F, F, Jesse, you I I've got that decision maker in a certainly but I've got globe. that decision?

My sense, as I sit here today, is that it is very tough to kind of mitigate some of these vulnerabilities when you're talking about having this company potentially allowing their software to have a code that allows for a backdoor for for potential chinese spying. I think that's very hard to hard tartar mitigate, but it does that. Look like okay, that you're going to turn over all your source code to us before you're allowed to ship one product in the country. Is it where you're going to submit to testing like? Is there a method? Are there steps that you could see? That would actually begin to mediate this problem, I'm sure that will be part of an ongoing dialogue both with you know the folks that that truly do that national security aspect of that on a daily basis. You know F b, I cia folks that are really focused that in getting their assessment on

on whether there is a path for while way too otherwise get themselves comfortable with the national security risk? That folks very clearly feel are real and are out there. I a quick break for an ad we'll be right. Back, hey, I'm ryan, reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices. Due to not hating, you that's right. We're cutting the price of mint, unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. It mint mobile dot com, slash, switch new activation, an upfront payment for three month plan required taxes and fees. Extra additional restrictions apply, cement mobile dot com for full terms. Support for this show comes from american express business. Running a business is no easy feat. American express

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I were back see, commissioner jeffrey stocks, they can ask others my question she's dead and ask a really dumb question? Yeah I mean it's really them just like go with him One of the reasons that we keep talking waterway in network equipment in infrastructure is that we are currently trying to build fudging networks while way is a leader in that equipment. Particular millimeter wave. Here's my really dumb question: why is five g, a race But what happens if we come in? Second, do I rise and customers revolt in the streets they cant download game a throne, slightly faster yeah What's so, I think it is important for us to continue to lead the race, but why is it a race? wise race in the sensor like who are we racing what I think we're racism does. The frame of the whole conversation is theirs is a race. I don't know who our competitors are, and I don't know what happens if we come in

I think there are a number of other countries. We have to see led to four g and I think we get to set some of the standards that are going to will ultimately be implemented worldwide, which is why I think there is. There is a little bit of a race. I agree with You in some sense on the premise that I'm equally focus not only on getting five g out there, but for a lot of They have no g. You know there are there. Are you know I'm excited by a world that is going to have artificial intelligence and and driverless cars and and virtual reality reality that we're all talking about, but I think it's also really important that we focus on the folks that are struggling to get. I speak connections at all. but that's me is like that. The trade off right, if it's a race organ it necessarily make, some trade yeah in prioritize some things, and because we certainly know that china has been hyper focused on having a global dominance,

around this, and that is in fact why you know why way was expecting and hoping to become the number one supplier here very quickly and of course, if, if firm if some of the trade issues with google and intel and quite and broad common, all those folks who have said that they're not can be able to continue their relationship with weiwei. In the same way, im. Sure that's going to be a significant setback, but do you ever sit in a conference room at the fcc? I'm assuming you have conference rooms, there's a whiteboard, and then someone writes like what, if we pump the brakes on five g and then they're like pros potential for increased national security cons, verizon will be able to sell one samson from Chicago right. Like does that ever but they may. We should like slow this down and get it right on a different set of metrics. Then speeding as fast as we can. I dont

I think so, and you do have so many folks that are you know five g is going to be the next generation. It is going to revolutionize our experience with internet with our ability to connect in smart cities and smart living and getting more mid band out there. I do think it is important for us to lie, but I do want to make sure that we are folks and inner certainly are national security concerns about how you get out there and lead in this way, which is why I think you do see folks that are trying to think through in real time. Where do we, dan with weiwei. Where do we stand with some of these national security vulnerabilities that we know are out there but again, I want to also focus the conversation on making sure that communities aren't left behind so I had briefly talked about net neutrality, because Mckenna told me this morning it's kind of dead in the water at now, but I'll. Let her do that. The the sort of policy, the political side,

but you were mean you did litigated big net neutrality case when you're in the unfortunate drew he won. I imagine that you are a supporter of such a thing is that I am very much a strong supporter I have net neutrality, so you roll out five g networks, they're expensive. All the big telecom companies are buying media companies, there's just a lot of incentive to pay off that investment by zero rating h b, o the h b, o hit series game of thrones or the eighteenth. had serious came a france right which started well. That's us the star, it's do well, though sound I'd try to get it out there anyway. I can keep that in the new public consciousness. The starts to do if there's a lot of incentive for a company like a t and t to pay off it's network by doing a lot of weird privatization practices by doing a lot of double sided market stuff? Is that something that you preemptively want to stop is at sony is your attraction on. I think we should definitely get back to our two thousand and fifteen open internet rules. No brock on her blog

he knew throttling no pay prioritization. I think the americans expect a free and open internet in in something gets It really talked about a lot is, and I think you're getting out of here for a lot of americans. I think this is really going to be a pocket book. Should we know that twenty seven hundred dollars, the average american family pays for their cell phone for their cable for their energy and for a lot of American again talking about digital divide for lot of americans as just a bridge too far, I do that if we allow a world where there's gonna be fast lanes and slow lanes, folks are gonna have to pay more for their internet. You know you're going to have certain companies that are pay for a fast lane in that cost is going to ultimately flow back, I think, to american consumers and that something that doesn't sit well with me. The other aspect of this that I think that is critical.

I like is. There are a lot of voices that are not mainstream media voices that I think also could be silence under under a scheme where there is not a free and open a net neutrality internet, a lot of voices of color but also different viewpoints on political spectrums, whether right wing or left wing or republican or democrat or otherwise. Does it drive I'm going to waste time driving? crazy and you can tell me of the transit crisis. That's how I structure all my interview, questions a series of complaints and see if you agree yeah, but he brought that up right. Net neutrality is at it's heart kind of a free speech issue. ok, you're republican colleagues. Are you? U generally boasts that reality? the chairman of the highest and the next breath the white house is putting out tattle on google and facebook if even unfairly, and social media. Do you see that is just as compatible as I do like it. I my head spins trying to get my head around how you can believe that net neutrality is bad, but you also want to

overregulate a sir? Is it so I I don't in particular what I I do think net neutrality is is about voices that are outside of the mainstream. I do agree that there is attention there I'm not in particular, trying to weight into the social media bias, and all of that I dont in particular understand that argument. To be honest, but I do it. there are a lot of in their lot of folks out there on on the republican side that are voicing that concern, I'm having trouble exactly kind of following the thread there, I would charitable yes, yes, I'm trying to be shared with the law sing that I would really kind of highlight four focus is, I think, the impact on innovation is going to be significant, mean away back in day there was Google video came out basically at the same time as youtube, and we certainly know of

had been a nascent you tube compared to Google. Google would have paid for the fast lane and enabled the kind of choke out a youtube that was fledgling at the time, but that's not what the marketplace the marketplace decide. did you tube in some sense kind of one that battle, and so I do have concerns that you would have all of these big large corporations that would be able to use them I could power in a way that doesn't ultimately drive innovation and help consumers. Are you, on top of the kind of we can so pie last week, seen it too I have made you czar of location, tracking or something right. There's some comments made at a house oversight hearing and I'm curious if, since you're this location, tracking, czar or whatever you're the lead investigator is the chair

giving you enough information to lead that investigation. So I want to completely refrain your question. I of ireland spicy the ass. I am not not the geographic location led. I've got to say that I think private colloquise between commissioners probably should have stayed such but because it did come out right after I was sworn in. The chairman did ask me if I would lead the geo location investigation. He said europe join forces lawyer, you're, deo, J trained lawyer Would you would you take this on? In my mind, the investigation should have been open for about nine months at that point considering that the initial mother, board articles had happened in early may also mind you. This is more

in the background. There is a one year statute of limitations that the fcc has, which basically means you have one year to bring a case. Otherwise, the bad I get away with it, and that's just something that has to be stated kind of at the top. So I asked for a briefing from the unfortunate bureau chief how the investigation was was going. Again when you're talking about investigation. That, in my mind, should have been going on for nine months. What I heard from that briefing did not give me confidence that the case was where it should be, and, more importantly, that the case was moving along expeditiously, especially considering you're talking about nine months. On a one year, s o l statue of limitation just for the listener you're talking about specifically the ability for a random person to get your nation through the black market. Yes, thank you yes, so wish. Yet we should back up completely the ito. A geo location is weak.

You have a particular relationship with your carrier. The customer carry relationship is dictated by us, but by statute section tutor, to end so they Your carrier is not allowed to absent your consent just sell your information, your customer proprietary information, losing your location information, including who has called you who you have caught all that information. So in this instance, we saw that carriers were selling to location. Aggregator is basically to a third party. They were selling The geo location information of folks that worth their customers So then that information was getting sold on again when you sell location information with them. party, then it was getting sold to a whole lot of people, including shady middle men, bounty. Hunters, and so it is really a matter to come back to your question. Can this not really about me

is this? What this is about is what I really saw there is. You know this is about somebody who, let's say that there's somebody who has gotten a restraining order, a temporary restraining order because they're in an abusive relationship, they have gotten themselves to a shelter. or safe house. Somebody could literally have paid a couple hundred dollars to be able to track that person's phone and that is startling. That's alarming, and that's why that case had to be has to be progressing as quickly. possible. So what I saw is at a case was not moving quickly enough, and so I declined the chairman's offered to take over that investigation, Instead, I have used my voice in a different way. I wrote in new york times are bad, of course, highly the geo location issue and and what's at stake and why it needs to be priority. Eyes cases of mass public safety have to be priorities. That is

something that I learned back when I was at the department of justice at the enforcement bureau and in this case has be resolved. It is we have to vindicate everyday folks and make sure that safe. Is this just an investigation of the ipcc pursuers their role for a law makers and other federal agencies? I certainly I think that there is, there certainly is probably a lane for an f t see, invest negation is well federal trade commission, who probably has better authority over some of the location. I guess we certainly have jurisdiction in my mind over the carriers and that they should not have sold this data to third parties. They should not have sold it downstream. I think those other folks on stream that are not in the telecommunications world, like a bounty hunter, some these bout, a hundred companies, these location, aggregator those

probably ours or somebody who's going to have to have authority of of somebody else. F, t c or some other some other entity. What's the next step, if you're not leading the investigation is something someone is it yes or is it going to is? Are you going to be able to file before that one year, statute of limitations. You know in my mind the one year statute of limitations has already hit a lot in the worst case. Bad guys got away with it. What the chairman decay did at the oversight. Hearing last week is that they are amusing. Air quotes here aware of these statute of limitations. What I soon that means what I hope that means is that there has been a tolling agreement in place which basically tolls the case from experts

caring for the bad guys to get away with it and so what's happening next. Is I expect that the enforcement bureau who's the enforcement arm of the fcc is moving as expeditiously as possible? I certainly know that I have raised in countless ways within my power to make sure that cases. Long quickly, but the enforcement bureau is going to. I expect make a recommendation on how the investigation should be handled to the five of us that are commissioners and will vote on. Will vote on that matter. Alright give us a ton of time. So let's do a very quick lightning round. Get you out of here mac or windows windows the ipad. I thought that Andrew really good. I thought. yeah to phone rebuild iphones. In windows an iphone. That's. What's your carrier of choice.

are you allowed to say yeah. Let's say that every time I go to the fcc offices isn't like every carrier has their best service. Here. Everybody carriers like this is the fastest speeds available in the country is like localized in this one building in DC every time help on called here? It's like the eighty, two teleconferencing t, teleconferencing service, t and t already gotta you somebody out five g real and not real real real. You think that's events, budget, it is the small step does to us. Really getting too, I think is, is a legitimate kind of five g world. That's bald I'll, take it I might say back. I have to say, I don't think it's last one big one: what's your go to like tech news site? This is a totally

You know I gotta say verge VOX gizmodo I go to as well. You mentioned motherboard earlier. My motherboard vice, I think, are outstanding. I'm I'm somebody who does take from a lot of different sources and a game of thrones as good as as good as your your. I gotta say I was not altogether happy with the game of thrones, ending the fact that the starks- well pleases me I I was considering the amount of time that I have ploughed into that show was not altogether satisfy us rehab. I now have to see, commissioner, well here is coming out like an breaking it's breaking. If I get it catch a lot of heat on this and all alone, it yeah commission, like saying you some, oh, yes, the last thing is contact me out on at Jeffrey starks. my twitter handle us by between her and you have a team that does it, for you know what

It's a we all work on it it really is banned with such a hard problem. For me now I have, I have very little time what I do I do throw in it. You know I I tweeted sex after the end of game of thrones, and so it's at g, o, F, F, R e. Why ask tee a r k s at every starks annie? add some personal stuff, but also some some thinking on on on my job in my official capacity, what I'm thinking through and and do what I like and don't like pretty clunky so much for sharing secretary. Thank you for the time Thank you to FCC, commissioner Jeffrey starks into mechanic kelly, our policy reporter for joining in interview really interesting. I want to know that You push. The button is back. They launched last week than upset about green and blue bubbles, and I message feature

the one and only dieter bone; listen that is superfund dieter yelling, actually that our cs is truly average podcast moment this week. Watch for somebody button gets into why people feel compelled to promote their tweets I think our going to promote a tweet to promote their episode about promoted to its it's weird check that out the essence and try to the has for free and fair pakistan just hit the link nazi and you have said, and please leave rating interview on apple podcast, a mean told to say this flooding No, I don't know why, but that's what they're telling me to say just do that for me. That'd be really great. We're back friday with aaron Paul for the chacha will see that hey, I'm ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation. We just

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