Two part verge cast this week here in part one dancy for is going to join the show we're going to do. Google IO, including android, twelve android, wear merging with tyson plus I am one reviews: that's new: I'm act within m one ship, the ipad prowess and I'm one ship. Ever apples doing losses music that we got parts you come later, Andy Robertson, and I are going to talk about everything epic vs apple, including tim cook, on the sand. That is the verge test. Coming up now and later, hey, I'm ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot? We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our price is due to not hating you that's right. We're cutting the price of mint, unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try. It mint mobile dot com, slash, switch new activation, an upfront payment for three month plan required taxes and fees. Extra additional restrictions apply, cement, mobile dot com for fulltime

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fears are going, do the apple epic trial is ongoing as recording and on friday. Tim cook is going to take the stand, we're in a split this episode into two parts dan indeed- and I are gonna- go through- google IO and news where news big massive, where use where less news we reviews of new. I mac with m one ship data review the ipad pro at last. We are all stuff we often discuss. Then atty and I after tim cook, is done on the stand on Friday. We're gonna to record a bonus episode to cover that, because What is the point of taking the epic apple trial if we don't have? Quite simply, stand, and I dont want to wait a whole week. Internally The real reason that that we're not doing epic right now is as a recording this on Wednesday little bit early credit craig fighter. He just referred to the mac as a car, not a truck or a bicycle,

I don't want to lose the entire episode to me, just losing my mind over computer, but of course I will face craig federal, basically implied the iphone its rebate. he's. An american is very dangerous. Really he was like. The mac has an unacceptable alot of malware. The iphone, even an infant, can use it we're trying to make them access they're in the weeds of what makes him act different from a phone and craig answer is basically from access to the internet at it's real. So that's going on now and then to look on Friday. I just didn't want it. I don't want to talk about it before it and cook and then, if we did our normal chiding went away wheat so adding I do a whole trial focused episode later on friday to this episode is just what I own apple

these, but I want to start where we must start with covered lots of covered news this week. Actually, as vaccination ramps up, there's a lot of interest in tracking vaccination in continuing to test and continue, with the contact trace we've got a whole story about those tools and why people are uncomfortable using them to control the spread of covered. I completely understand why people are uncomfortable digital tracking technology, but there's a lot of conversation about how to use these tools to the countries that are being used in and how effective they are. So that's a great story that covered, is running rapid in india. It is a disaster, it is people are dying, people getting sick, it unacceptable rates. It has happened in my own family. The people has gotten second died, and there's a lot of conversation about patent waivers in vaccine. You factoring weavers and india, with a long story from a reporter in India who finance with us about the indian covered crisis and specifically, why? Just like

I'd opening manufacturing will definitely help it should help. Patent waivers are important and I think that by administration should grant them, but there there's a laundry list of issues. The creator that problem so we want to dive into that in a nicole, rather great peace, and I think this is just as we go through it as we get vaccinated come out of it. There's a lot of listen what you, as a person should do to man. Covered risk and like your individual choices and nickel where a piece about how focus animal. The jewels can does two solve public health problems and, like we really were not a lot to cover it. So that's all on the site, if you, fascinated go, get vaccinated the cities as you can get your mast, artist, russia, too, we ve, got a story that that, but if you're not backed please go, you have actually read great to have us all over with. That brings me to. I owe which I would know I was here

on Google's campus and if you watch the stream, you notice people were socially distanced, they were outside and they were wearing masks snow chances taken by google during this, but lots of announcement at IO did it take it takes to him. The biggest stuff is sort of the the traditional stuff that you expect. It's android, twelve, it's google, going off a bunch of futuristic, a demos. It is the best stuff, but some of somebody's up they ve got a big adoration of works space. they surprised a bunch of us by actually doing something with where anywhere, where, alas, whatever you want to call it, I guess for calling They were married, lists and they're doing something with it and then

bunch of google photos updates to distract you from the fact that unlimited photo storage is going away a little less than two weeks. A bunch of maps updates a big big one, which I imagine I dunno probably not talk about too much. But it's I think, it's a big deal. Google shopping is basically now going to be attached to everything. Google makes you are going to have google shopping retail things pop up in all sorts of new places now, like lens, is going to be more directly pointing to it a whole bunch of other stuff and there are also partnering with shopper fi, which showed me. I really talk to somebody for tough. I am highly critical seeing their present yes, and now. If you are, if you're retailer on shop a fire, you can like click three buttons and show up now on Google shop. So it's a bit. Shot across the bows amazon potentially and its also. I I know

How often do we worry about the incentives for s yo for websites? How do we worry about the incentives? A google has four where it ranks things. I got no flights and whatever else now, Google hesitated fairly new set of incentives for selling stuff on the internet, and there could be attaching it to wait for their products, so that we can. So it's like the top level overview. I think, but. The big big news for us to really get into is probably android aware here I want to talk so they re. I stuff in these big ideas- are multi modal search work we'll get to all that. How can we not spent an hour talking like google docs, let's start with android andred, schwab's and public buildings. I think you do already installed it. I didn't have time yesterday. It looks very different and I think the first thing you can do. There's a party It, says the pit, so not sewing well is actually like it's a good thing in some ways, because we look at it

like the irs user experience or even samsung user experience. They have such a install base this. so many phones that radical changes to the like interface patterns. They have to do a lot of work to get you there yet, whereas Google's like well and if you have this phone now worse entirely differently and you can deal with it in them in their budgets. for years right. They change the how you access, multitasking and stuff on the up and in the phone three years in a row. They changed. They settled out at this time that entry to the just changed everything else, and so it's a lot more powerful and its bubbly in its I didn't know you like, because you you feel like it's a lot easier to use a lot of the settings button in the dials in and what have you so that here's a think it it's big about We should talk about material. You have, while you heavy sigh on that one, but like the big chain, and like functional change of the design is everything is just really big.

And everything is a little bit smoother because they optimize the way animations work with a sub system, though she were interrupts and they're using the big corp, less often Battery life should be better and more efficient. Pop up blocker, but everything is big. I think that's more accessible, but if you like, information density, you're, probably going to hate it and there's a there's, a pretty even mix of responses in the youtube comments on twitter on it. Also a lot of people saying it looks like the iphone, which I don't understand, actually very much. How does it look like the iphone? I don't know, I think, control has big round buttons. I guess home is certainly leaves have a square. You can have a circle and then you could do something with the corners and would you want stars they ve got started badges

Who did you wish it system is just like you can have any shape you want. It looks looks like I do, but anyway, I'm fine with them taking up or space and like having the buttons just be easier to head and like less cognitive load like where's. if the wifi button, because now it's like twice as big and now you just tap it- so that's an interesting idea, but I'm always interested in like new, interesting ideas in in you. Why the big kerfuffle that I've seen is people trying to decide if what they want button to do because Google try to do a new thing within eleven and they ve already ditched it. It used to be it would bring up like super buttons and then google wallet and then home controls. But now it just brings up the assistant, which is what it does on the iphone, which is what it does on the galaxy phone yeah. So they just have to copy everybody else there, but it was thick if you have a smart himself. It is a little bit more convenient till I get to it from a power button. But what are you doing the thing for me about material you,

and thoroughly enjoyed mitosis presentation cause it yeah it in many ways it was ominous. I dont know how to describe it any other way like like his huge. Is that he's a big personality. He was wearing an insane shirt It pink shirt, but he definitely looks like he used. He had been dealing with the mayor of miami. You know what I'm like we're personality, big floral shirt, and he kept saying things like now. There is a color for every mood and, if I did Why are you in my brain like, but operating solely, as did my favorite was what, if, instead of form following function, form followed feeling. Yet it was the line yeah. I mean there's, there's like all these little lines there, that were delivered with such intensity as, like our even ash, the last line could have been like in now. We all control your feelings like the snake.

but I look at this and I look at the design across Google's products, as this is the whole point of material you, it's not just android twelve, it's how the apps are gonna work, it's connected to their hardware, design that they're trying to unify all this aesthetic in it. Is definitely less silly than google used to be is far more refined. It feels more careful right now, there's a sense of being able actually moving, where the Of our hardware map too, shapes and our software? Does I like a very apple thing to do, but it wasn't really done it now. We ve got a big plan to do it. Indeed a recent everything is really big. Google's confidence that knows what the most important information is is like a dna level across the company. That's what google does and you see how big things are in there like. What you really want is a big ass clock. So here's a big ass clock Very well, designed and integrated with everything in it kind of looks like your ness type, and I think that's. That is a big turn for Google and I

I d reacted when I set it doesn't look it's on a silly. Is google used to be evidence of friendless, but google yahoo so he's like outrageously silly, yet What's funny about it is it's like this is the last nail in the coffin of the joyous, right- and this is so far from light than even honeycomb- that nobody is short. I worked on there's a whole like cool computer, nerd, vibe reactor gamer. I've or whatever to andrei very tony stark back again tony yeah and, like that's all gone, and so when compared to some of the old stuff at android. I think it's more playful but you're right that it is refined in a way that oji google playfulness was never refined yeah. I mean it's just like not primary colors and big silly shapes and like. I think it looks really good eating. One of the big problems Google has is that nobody vice he's found. So it's a break it off it's for them to experiment way faster than anybody else. Can it

the hardware design and the actors on the dead, comcast tv or the? What is the google to de with chrome, cast toward our it's called now yet chrome cast ultra of Google tv, android search docks tv John s. Call you can see that that little pieces, where, like connects to this aesthetic, we're building a remote happens like they're starting to do the connections. But so many of their absence services run on other people's operating systems, so their disconnected from like the irs, aesthetic, their disconnected from the windows, aesthetic and eating. The big question for google is always how do you know disconnected from samsung aesthetic you're. So how do you How do you put your your companies interface identity into the world when always sitting next to something else? That is the primary you I design of it of that hard.

And how much of this is gonna get on sampson or general john mayer, whatever they're gonna encourage everybody doktor material you in their own. Thank you, no personal beautiful way, his samsung gonna do that if Google's acts, successful at getting app developers to update their widgets cause. I haven't done it since twenty twelve, which sorry up developers Yes, are you haven't outdated your budget with its twenty twelve or that now look we're? a samsung phone, because it's like designed for a pixel like cars, know what they know. People are gonna want a design to have it look good on a samsung phone. So the only question that really matters is: what does it look like out of? Pixel is what does it look like I'm at the same time well for six months, were we expecting a new pixel at the assertion, rumors right and then they enter? Well, I mean they've announced the Google pixel that

hey we're doing this phone, and you know a logical person might have said it all. You ve got this big event. A lot of press is paying attention to it. Maybe you want to slip a hardware announcement into their. They did not do they announced the phone. If you don't recall by denying- then it was cancelled. That's how they percent there's rivers that oh, this phone, that everyone expects school will probably make is not good and then they go, those like none other way way way way we're doing it were releasing it into markets. We'll talk to you later, then. You know we have heard anything sense. So the pixel five, eight still tbd, You would assume that it's gotta be soon it's almost june. It is a different generation than what we expect them to do with the fall with the pixel six and the rumor do a processor and everything like that. So you assume that's the reason. The other piece of hardware that's long been rumored now is new pixel buds that are called some kind of pixel buds a. So there are two pieces of hardware that you maybe could have seen

it didn't happen. It was an entirely software services. Show I believe Google might have telegraphed that they wanted to announce that the five a at the usual time, which may mean that they are in fact waiting for the fall and still have another one of these wacky situations where there is a pixel six at a pixel five at the same time, which will be exhausting the third third piece of rumored hardware, which there's much less information about is the the pixel watch, but that is we: should products get the rest entered before we start having emotions about wearables? jewels like adding little features to hundred. I'm always interested like what me in the system and what makes it in tat, same sons, version android or jammies wherever. So, what are that? The system will features at ten or twelve other than moving the stuff around which nobody adopted. They have added

new privacy permissions. So there's a little indicator for camera and microphone. There is a new approximate location thing. So, instead of giving someone your pinpoint location, you can give your neighborhood there's a new privacy dashboard that tells you how often your stuff has been accessed. I don't know if that'll make it and there is a new android tv remote which may or may not make it to other funds, but it will be built in an o s level and others also buttons in quick settings to just turn off like their switches. Your carrier might, for, I think, that's actually pretty cool guy, just at the aps, think they have camera access, but they don't which is kind of clever yeah. That's always I mean it. I like the idea these companies are now racing show their privacy features, and I really like the word

What the apps think they have it and everytime they call it we're going to ask you again, cause it yeah, a lot of people say no and forget, and then they'd have no idea why things are broken. So I think this is really smart. The other privacy hang. I was expecting a non answer from Google, but they gave me will tell you later this year, answer, which is some kind of up tracking for ads. In the same way, apple has eighty tee and chrome is doing flock. Oh my god, privacy sandbox, there's going to be some answer for android later this year, but they don't have it today. So that's that's something to watch out for and before I oh, there is some reporting, mr connell etc that google doesn't really know how to handle cookies flock tracking debate because their entire business is selling ads. I think this is very unique diana for you. There under enormous out of antitrust pressure just so?

they do the thing everyone wants them to do, which is turn off most tracking and just uses. First party dataset. They have anti competitively foreclosed other people from running advertising networks in their browser on their phone right. Do you think this is a problem? You probably don't. Do I think it's a problem. I don't think it's problem to the ad tech vendors think it is a problem. They definitely think it's. Problem and there like get me on the phone with europe. We're gonna shut, google down, and I really just the weirdest situation for google to me if you're worried that google won't be able to figure out how to target adds to you if they don't have third party cookies and add a tracking I'll. Just say to you the thing that Kissingen said to me wishes they can talk to pluto they're gonna be fine. the questions they figured out for everybody else or not, and who knows the last thing I guess for enter it is we should talk about the android private compute, core yeah? It's a curse

I it is a real, not not hardware number. That's. No hardware it is a special sandbox for running machine learning things that Google thanks, you will think is creepy, so it's hardships and analyzed. You know how you talk to give use my replies, it's what music is playing and I get the impression it's more stuff there that they made this things, that they could do more machine learning stuff in the future that they know what you know creep you out a little bed, so everything in the box has no network access and acts can only communicated by very- limited a p eyes, speaking of stuff that I expected in the future, they implied that that was one of the reasons they moved. The Google assistant button to the power button so that I could do more contextually aware stuff, based on whatever screen you're on cause, it's easier to just hit the power button and ask about the screen that you're looking at

it is to swipe up from the corner. Actually swiping up from the corner was always a terrible idea and I'm glad it wouldn't bother doing it, except for Google, because what a fiasco that gesture was. I did it my axe. And a lot recently. This isn't you have nothing to say to me about this twitter feed. I I will say you know first beta very early. You can do both. Currently you can have the power button launches. Isn't you can also do the corner? Just if you, if you have a power button, launch assistant dan? How do you turn the phone off. that's a good question, that's right up for me. I don't know, I'm gonna, be the volume thing not that scripture. I know how do you phones. Now, my understanding is that you have to turn it off again. If you want to turn the photo

Eventually, if you look closely at the screenshots in my article, there is going to be a power menu in the bottom of the quick settings, so it'll be like edit quick settings go to all settings and then there's a tiny little power button there to go to power the samsung way. I hate that way. What is the power by the term? Well, I liked the death grip way that that apple does, although I hit the screenshot accidentally, but yeah whatever, who wants their phone off anyway come on. I mean this is like it's like kind of like you only want to turn off when it's like crashing in most most of these funds. I will finally recognise their in some sort of death, whoop intersect restart themselves. Yet Maybe the way is actually no buttons. here's. My drugs approach to this problem. Number it's for babies Actually you can. I can I tell you a story. Palmer was when it crashed. They would, unless

and unless they knew what it was and that you needed to do something about it. They will just let it crash and restart it and never tell you, including rebooting, the entire phone. In some cases like they were just they would net they just they chose not to show error messages because nobody else do their message so they just crashed in the background reminiscent like cats with echo devices. Do this right on equity messages are constantly restarting themselves, and no one ever knows that. That's also how certain folding device that recently came into my life behave. It just reboots, but it is just like motor is like flaps, open and shut so goodbye to close it and you open it, and it's just like I'm going to restart all right. So, let's andrew resolve a bunch of stuff, we'll see, there's like other little stuff, like google photos, adding this like locked folder for pictures, which is great instead of like yeah, if you're, if you're like taking pictures of a puppy to give to your gf yeah, that's what it is right now. It's a good feature like. I think that stuff is neat, there's other stuff, that

like more. It's us tangibly part of andrew twelve, like their update. Their camera algorithms to handle dark skinned better to do it. There's stuff, that's coming that will affect, in particular the pixel experience and hopefully, Spread out to the rest of andred enhanced great, but the real news to the real needs yeah, samsung and google are bringing their smartwatch platforms together. Yeah I put in a live blog that there are sixty people who care about this in the tweet got like I re tweeted seventy tickets for each. I got ninety five so it's all out by thirty percent, but it was only ninety five likes. this sort of the video, like ties and was invented, is like a hedge again. It's google remember, there is a cold. There is like a year or people thought samsung would split off from Google, where google was mad launched a couple phones. Where would you those mad about samsung, just like

skimming android so hard and try to pull them back and now they're like yet wishes mercies operating is if you old, old school, verge, hast heads will now- and I say this is me: go his meagre you'd. Actually, can you explain that cause like its takes it? There is a long walk to get to. This is bigger, bore the constituent operating systems Amelia, There is, maybe maybe they had made now, which is there any smartphone platform into I like baubles magua hindenburg I don't remember, is dan. The man is trying to pretend it's not on the tip of his tongue. Anyway, there was a vision of a new linux based smartphone operating system from like two or three companies they jam together to make a memo? Em a e m o. And an it still was like not is good, as I owe us in an android shut up,

That is my understanding of the time. May I dont know mabel ever made it to a shipping phone. There is one like tell was threatening to release a phone for years and now in all fell apart, they never could get their chips in order and nokia became does home like ninety nine hundred was a default name of vigo. Now they they if they made some, they made some stuff with either main army or africa. No here and nine hunting. There's a man a memo. Five yoga, I stand corrected the end. Nine hundred was the memo phone It died designed by peter scum and who helped designed APOLLO us and with us I can't leave yourself on this anyway, what they announced this thing I wanted to do that you like know what is actually happening, but so they announced this thing in it brought me back to light straight up. My old had gadget playing is like

What happens when two companies announce a partnership to merge are operating systems? Well, random executives, you ve, never heard of from before show up on stage. We like working with partner company ex, has been a dream with their innovations, inability to do fitness and our innovations inability to make hardware. The future is right for smart watch customers, and that is exactly what happened here. It was like a two thousand eighty asking it so, ok, where, alas, slow not a lot of support. Note using it, whatever ties and fast, terrible, nonexistent, absolute sense, samsung behind it, and so it's good oh by the way google but fitted and suffered bit over in the corner, and Google insisted that it by fit for the software. they want to buy for hardware, but there's a that's a little bit word that thickness there because fit, but is also part of the story

two things coming together gets three yeah, so kinda right, I do so from what I can see the base is based they still, whereas I watched the io presentation on it and like it Beware: Alessi, it's not very tiny samsung should we did screen stuff. They contributed how to make it more battery efficient and they contributed how to make it work with processors better. So maybe it's like some low level merging of the two, but like you right out of catalan and Japan, which is the android way to do good, fast apps. Now it's like its basic

where, with a bunch of samsung stuff put in like how to make watch, races, had already kind of adopted a lot of you why that samsung had with ties and in later versions where or authority, so they were already kind of on the same path in terms of like interactions July and then fit bit. Is gonna, be the fitness health stuff on the watch, but apparently Google fit isn't going away, which has the dumbest decision re, but fortunately s, health sampling s, health is going on that one will not be the great yeah they did confirmed ye ha. That's alright ceremonies, promising that there's new stuff sheriff

was promising to make stuff. Samsung said we're doing it soon. Samsung has done making ties and watches, apparently, which is great news. All I care about is that there be a decent smartwatch option for android users. I'd like this thing is going to you: have a cellular option up it's going to work with more cellular networks, quote unquote. So like it's going to be supported, we are assuming. Google is going to make it's one thing to maybe some company, called fossil will start making these watches to who knows what so this is. This is the big question for me right, so why you bring these two things together because world, where o s has support the andred system level seeking theoretical use it with any android phone, but the products are bad and some people like some of the products but like as us, leaving generalization, I'm comfortable, saying the products about. in watches, are slightly better,

but really only work with samsung phones. Well, I think the difference is is what this is bringing together and that I think the ninety people that are excited about it are excited, because the ties and watches it seems like watches generally have the best hardware in the android option: ecosystem they have the best battery life, the the best screens they've got reliable, clichy bezels to control them, and they are noticeably faster that the wearer was countered, parts, but they don't have. They have bixby instead of the Google assistant, they don't have access to any of google's services and things like that. So if the the dream is take google services, dick them on a samsung, Tizen watch and you've got like a compelling, interesting yeah. I I am just like take a step back from it if you think about, if you are fully in the big speaker system, yeah, I'm cutting this down to like four people, and please call me I just want to talk to you for hours. Your first dog was shoes. bixby just wander around. Her has ties in his great for you in the eyes and wash will complete the experience and using s health in this

amazon, email app and, like all that, some kind of works for you, but you living a very lonely life here. no one else is using those that's fine, maybe you're happier than with dixie. That means I sampson's total adjust will market for their better hardware. is just like small. In wrangles market is like all of android, but the products are bad, but by the name you you think about it. What is android, especially in the? U s, sure what is android but samsung right and so like bulls, as we know them in smart watch sense. The apple watch, the ties and watches thinks it that those are in expensive, add ons that people, by with expensive phones, low cost fitness trackers, are different story. But that's not what we're talking about here so like this is like samsung cells, the most android compatible smart watches. Right, maybe fifty is up there as well, but the wearer west

once just don't, don't sell all, and so like this is Google's opportunity here is to bring where or where was whatever was a call today to that market of people who are buying samsung watches, which is a real market. It's not an apple watch market, but it is a real market and bring those Google services and and crooks in all that stuff in to it and then maybe the trickle on effect is if they're not buying samsung phone and they have a different android followed. They can buy this watch. It's got google's name on it, in the software they don't need six helper apps like if, if you have a pixel right now and pair up a samsung watch to it, you need to download no lesson six apps to get every service working on it, which is just like kind of a wild thing. So you get a better experience on that, but really I think it is Google's getting access to this larger market people who are actually by these smart watches? With this racing? To my last can a big question at this event, sam, so making washes at work better across andred. You ve got google making watches using this new after exists, and it worked better.

how much room is left right like will fossil compete and might show up and like continue to make these washes like. I would like there to be a vibrant ecosystem of Additives want watches runnin and our compatible has google services across all the phones. but I think that the european away from that they tried die with wireless and bombed algae bought with I couldn't make it only other so browns managed to participate, like the the thing to think about here. Isn't dead smart watch market in the? U s insight that eighty percent of all funds on worldwide are entered europe based on entered and their smart watch options are like the like, the weird low and stuff that you can get from one plus or what you look like a man may suddenly is that they are your yet a fit bit, or warrior you know you deal with a hassle of the same sex off it. So there needs to be a high adoption and

I would like there to be a big. You know competing ecosystem, a bunch of different, manufacturers fighting to make the best thing. But I would like that, for phones I would like to see and algae. You are still in the game, but right now it's like it seems and then, if you are like really needed, Sorry you get a one plus, so you look at the market shares what pluses just like, especially on the? U s, so what it one of the most interesting things with this shift is, and I dont member Siena in,

and wired had some articles were they got to talk to some of the people that rebuilding and nato member, which once said this, but apparently watchmakers will now be able to customize the uae, that's on top of where which is a huge departure from how android? Where and when it s, where we're basically googled dictated that you why you could not change it, you could not customize it at all, and every single watch basically looked the same as a result. They could have different watch faces and couple different apps, but do you I myself as a state so now samsung, who definitely muck with it, because they're gonna make it look exactly like their ties and watches. I'm sure fossil, if it wanted to these other manufacturers, that maybe they play ball, could you know customize it and make it a different experience kind of like what were seen with andrei phones, and then it begs the question or

and it s like. What is the goal in terms of like what google wants? A smart watch experience to be because now hardware partners can dictate a lot of that so be kind of interesting to see how the shakes out see what is different between how, where aware, has been that we ve known for a few years now and how this new, where, when I suspect, will see devices and the fall running at dinner time on now, honestly, I think, follows pretty good. I mean samsung announced hardware that they're gonna have watches. There's rumours issue we're going to do a watch? This fall! We've seen renders that you know whether or not you believe them is dicey, but they could be accurate. So I do think that it's like this is the year and I think that, because it's basically where with sampson can begin from I put whatever samsung stuff they want on top of it. Actually it's not going to be that hard to get to watch out, like I don't think they're making a whole new operating system here. I think it's just where, but faster and less

Maybe you don't get it we're in a modern, Cloacam ship. It's ok, it's better than its reputation, but there's just not enough to do on a still just feel a little bit and complete the seals. a complete thought, I think, making feeling more of a complete thought is great but like as a person where's appalache everyday. What do is at war vacations the walkie talkie feature, which is just a real hit in this house and like it is the best our assayed to factor dongle, but you could ever hope for out right right. That's it will take em like I keep trying to make it do more things, but those things are obviously that, but I fitness tracking, like it just happens to you and then you're like I gotta close. These rings like great, if that's all stuff, that google and samsung can compete with and in rebuild, but that, like. First, it needs to be complete, thought there were iterating on, People want to use the features it doesnt. Have. I dont think any these

what is need to do much more than that to be compelling but I showing, whereas gotten anywhere close saucy. I just can't get over the lake with our excellent partnership in innovation and our long track record of partnership like I've heard it before so now that they got to actually do it. I know I I mean I get. The cynical endgame of this is: where becomes sampson smartwatches and like it's just like yours, land around. That's it. It's just did notice samson, like other partners, those on a board or they give it a college, try with one model and then a year later, they're gone, and it's just. This is what samsung watches now run. I mean that that's that's an ending that I could very see happening with us. Yet what are we gonna take a break, but so this is What happens when you gotta take a break, maybe to come back again for the rest of? I will be right back

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download the apt to get free delivery on your first three orders offer valid for a limited time, minimum ten dollars border additional terms apply. Lots of other io stuff, including light a huge change to Google docs which, I mean our entire business runs on Google docs. So we can talk about this forever, but a big change in how it works I will say: they're, adding google me buttons to everything like it's going out of style, which makes me sad, but some cool stuff in docs. What's going on, there so Google wants to do the thing that microsoft, is doing with fluid. They want to have all the stuff connect to each other right and so their method of doing that is called the smart canvas and then there are these smart ships. So, instead of at mentioning somebody in a dock, you can add mentioned them, you could mention them and out of google task to them right in the dock, you can hit the add button, it'll pop up a menu that will fill out a template. That's like ready for meeting notes. You can at mention other documents in your drive and that could be either a google doc or like microsoft. Word

AK or whatever and when you hover over it, you can get a little preview of it right there in the thing, so they're, basically trying to get you to not have to switch tabs just like they like just get rid of tab overload and this they're doing this girl chat to write like a bunch of using you can view inside chat and other, unless you have chat viewed inside the Google doc or you could do it inside meat or in the Google doc. You can click the meet button to share the your dock directly to the meeting. So you don't have to worry about screen, sharing and showing the wrong tab or whatever so they're, just basically making everything do everything which, if they can keep it feeling coherent understandable, is kind of cool, but it's also a case. He wrote a good piece. I kind of gesture to this idea. It's a lot like what, like the cooler new office, suite notion or code or whatever doing,

You can't go that fast because they have such a huge user base. Just like I from right. They can't change a thing and do something completely while they can bring back of wave so they're doing these sort of baby steps. So that's the feature set, but the favour the hearse cast. This house is in order to enable that feature said they have to use this feature called campus, which is basically a in an html where you say, there's a canvas here and then you know your web browser like stops paying attention and then the thing that's inside the canvas is an app or like it's like javascript. It's not flash, I mean, maybe it could be. Who knows, but it basically takes the idea of like using, what technology were used to thinking of his the web. He she malice yes s, some javascript by law, and that, like is not used to build this, and so it's no longer in the document. Object model. It's not in the dominant. More and lots of people have emotions about that, because if there is any company that could have figured out how to make a kiss,

as futuristic web app that interconnects everything together and makes you feel like everything is all you know, magically jumping from one thing to the next inside web technologies. You'd want it to be google and of google's bailing on it. And that kind of bodes ill for you know the future of like web stuff, that's like more accessible where you can like inspect source and see what's going on weight, so you can't mean that's like breakdown it's simply so, with the new google docs, you can't just like inspect source and see how the thing works. Would you can do with some, but not all like most, but not all web pages right now, yeah, I mean basically it's more of a box. I don't know for sure if, like if you really start pushing at it, if you can like find the link to the web app, that is that the camera is pointing to and then, like you know, go down the line Google will tell you everything is opensource all the time. So I do not think that directive all I am saying it's a lot less accessible. If that makes europe,

Google said that a lot of like extensions that are built to modify doc so like a common one, might be like a dark mode. Extension to flip your google docs into a dark mode, it's probably gonna break and to re, updated to work with this canvas or whatever, which gives and, ultimately, more control. Right. Google is going to make this thing extensible so that other you could like. We could make a verge Google doc thing. So if you type at something in the name of an article, it would auto fill the link right. That would be cool that would make making show notes way easier for me yeah, but for now the way that most extensions and most like google doc plugins from third parties work is they basically inspect source. They go through the dom and they're like oh, like this thing, change it and then changes it. Just like you can inspect source yourself to change a headline to it for a joke, screenshot or whatever, and that's going to be harder to do a lot of that stuff.

I break, but it's not gonna break instantly. A bunch of stuff is still gonna work. It's just like the stuff inside the canvas it's going to take awhile to shake out, but it's potentially more centralized. You know controlling the ghoul for api stuff inside though So a lot of their demos word to me things. It seem like grenadiers, like this immigrate, demos when I think about how I actually work, and I wonder right, like one of their demos was, you are writing in a dock or you're working on a spreadsheet and you push button in the vehicle starts right in the dock and never ends, looking at it in the screens are really small and it's all just happening in one place right. In your eyes are like such ass. this world halves. Didn't you close the eager bastard or I mean I think you better This up in your pc to like these are cannot of ancient ideas about out of work in docks, like document there, like apple, had open doc. Microsoft had o early

well, a courtesy that this is the verge has where we have brought up. Maemo, meego and open dog is just a classic yeah. It was a populace that say we are slick, inner feelings of that technology. It is this they just wilds. We like these are dreams and have persisted for years and years and years you am. I Finally, they can come into reality. I think the pandemic from home. His made people be like I want to figure out different ways to work with a bunch of people remotely sinners appetite for change. In a way that has existed before, but really What you're talking about is, I want to make it doc. I want to embed the table from the spreadsheet in some else updates and spreadsheet all happens, live in one place. Also like wildly accessible to other kinds of absence services, and

im, just logging into like my work, dashboard and stuff is happening all the time and I think that stuff is great and then I think about how I actually work, which is, I need to focus on a single thread and just get through it without being distracted and that I need to like give that to Dan like edit this review. I'm leaving an answer, however, really works on. There's lots and lots of different ways toward the like. These ideas are somewhat in conflict right What you perceive a way of working, that is not actually the bet like what most people would call the best way working, which is like extreme focus, welcoming the big question to me. It's like how much of this is driven by like metrics, I'm, not accusing google of being driven by metrics and like the old joke about you know how many thousands of blues they tested, blah blah blah blah but like

If you're making an app- and you see more use of your app, then that must be good, and so all this stuff is designed for like real time, interaction unless asynchronous communication and like just more more use the apps more because there's more stuff going on you get more notifications or video calls blah blah blah, but maybe that's not. Maybe you should make an app that doesn't need to be used so much because the idea of work has to get it done and move on to the next thing. That's what I mean it's like! I recognize that we have very strange jobs right like we deliver things that need to be finished and then published in others. If we have to change them after publish like there's a process we have to like it, that's all very different for us than other folks in different kinds of industries, but I do think that notion? I mean this is why, when I was doing verse, hasna resource I'd, ask every guess: when do you work? right in the answers are like almost always so exactly like. I work in business class flying across the country, because the wifi is bad and no one can bother me, which is always my fair. If I said

answer, but I look at this stuff and it's like oh, this is just allowing more people to interrupt you and getting your way, but it looks really cool. It sounds really cool and I am just I think google like yet they ve got a big racing area slow. But I think some that slowness is gonna be helpful to figure out what is like so what does not, but even within our weird way of working, if you pull the staff of writers who work with editors all day, long Some of the mobile guiding and google docs, but a lot and we'll be right outside of Google docs because they want a thing that does not distract them and they can write it down and then they literally copy their tax into google docs, which then gets collaborative edited and then gets copied into our cms and there's like this, this process that we have. So it's like these things that Google's coming out with our all focused around immediate collaboration and like real time, collaboration, which is like like

said looks really cool and demo and hasn't like meat idea of all of us, we're all and have a place in the world while working on this, today the same goal, but how much of that is going to reflect the reality of how something has put together a me like, I don't know how we integrate. This is our workflow. Maybe there's other we're close where it's more obvious yeah and I I don't want to be like too narrow minded lots of people that work in all kinds of fields. They do need more real time collaboration. I'm excited for the innovation. I just keep thinking about the fact that I am an apple pencil and like all that is easier for us. My daughter draws on the tat, look like any demo? No one knows what to do except circle, things on a screen and like it's just feels like that, like man, this is cool. I finally have this thing. I want boy, it's usefulness to me is extremely limited.

We want to get up workspace before pointing out that they finally added a page list mode that it is responsive and soda. The document will change its width to, though, with of your windows, and I assume that you're printing it which little been overdue: just want to reiterate that, if you are a google tasks, caesar a they haven't, given you a website go to would still only in a sidebar and be what team can add a google task to your google tasks from a Google domino, so I am intending on using that in all sorts of terrible ways, it's gonna be super fun. I'm intending on continuing to ignore google tasks. Now, but they are normalizing about stuff. So, like the little hovered thing for a contact and gmail is gonna, stop me

it's so broken because they made it. They fix it for google docs and they're going to bring that back to gmail. So the thing that strike struck me at the end of all of this was: oh, my god, they're doing stuff like they're. Actually, they have a roadmap and they have a plan and they have a vision for what google workspace is going to be and they're actually making products on the path to that roadmap. That's a bad metaphor, but they're doing a thing and they have a plan which I google is not common. yeah. I feel like Google's going to start shipping stuff in docs is actually like the whole story here, but we'll see because it has remained remarkably unchanged for a long time. Yeah, let's round out io, there's a bunch of other stuff, and I kind of like falls into two Is one is, like Google do in a bunch, a demo stuff and then Google doing I stuff- that is they were controversy and our kind of like dunaway demo stuff. So, oh just like we could never tell us

forecasts, like google photos die relating to thursday. around the same time, inanimate them. So like the question of what is a further was about to get extremely wild, so you did you take let's say year their demos tis to facebook, but knew I'd like to photos at different times for those photos photos in the first place or they also some assets inherent, Photos are already acr composites, so they are single moments in time, but then, if you think about an animation, animation is frames that, when stitched together indicate the passage of time, but now the first photo is actually a slice of time that is interpreted to create the impact, in a single moment in time. So as the last frame and out is generated, multiple frames in between yeah our moments in time that never existed right. Well, they may

if they assume it existed, they're, they're, they're, taking a guess that you, you know. You moved your head this way in between those two frames, but they don't know they're, just figuring it out yeah, but it's like that's crazy yeah. Let's be server that that's an hour verged cast eggs. One is about the like: one of those middle frames. Statistically it could be an accurate representation that moment in time yeah. Maybe it at a high level like a high rate of accuracy, could not be said- I ever commuter jail photo yeah. The council has just said is just statistics anyway, statistically nothing made there. It's not that it's not actually off. Yes, no, its statistics, its percentage chance that you exist and luckily its You know you're you're, hidden your hidden jackpot, every every millisecond which way Quantum compute

you know that always bang and such like anything that was a great interstitial. throws Michael Paine. Here they are like long through the quantum computing facility. It was very yogi, it's very hard explained quantum computing. I made it showed him alive. I would this is true. If you ever in your life like Our equality computing person or, like their facility within minutes, they'll, be like this is the coldest displace the universe because it is the single but also the weight of one thing I can say to you, and it is still in the same work because other as like cubits, Here's the deal and your like offer the raises some enshrined. The kind of computer by twenty twenty nine there actually race, with microsoft, are in a race with the I b m. All these somebody's have different approaches to how to do this thing that they're doing that. Demolition called star line tat. This was wild, which I find the dough I understand why it's so complicated

I don't think it's necessarily complicate. I just did that smart thing they made, what are its? If it's, how will I trust video conferencing booth sit in it. there's cameras, there's a three d display in front of you, but then, instead of just shooting you and sending that video signal directly to the other star line, booth it construct real time three model of you and then reality it's that model. On the other side, that's the part where I'm like. Why is it so complicated because they could just shoot the video of you in three d? get over there, but they make a volume metric treaty model of you right. Maybe it gives you more ability tat. They put add around a little bit, maybe it just looks less of video e to do it that way. Yeah I want to. I I'm like bursting with questions cause. They showed it off and look cool, learn, good, read a great piece of worried about it, she had to experience it, but then they kept saying things like this. Take so much data YAP with gigabyte,

of data. We invent a new compression technology as a quantity, just shoot a video, but they never made that turn For me, did you hear that, because I never figured out why they need to do all this volume metric, greedy rendering, instead of just showing three video across the I hope, because what you're looking at on the way in the booth you're looking at a hologram right and that the reason you can make eye contact is because of the one of the camera, is behind the hologram, so you're, actually looking at a full person like in three d presented with hologram technology, not it, and so it's not just a video. It's it's a real person with like volume right in front of you.

and and so could that have been done with a bunch of three cameras, or did they actually need to do like a full bunch of like motion capture volumetric stuff to like get that to have that presence on the other side, I'm guessing they did maybe then, but I'm guessing. They did and that's also a lot of data, but that's weird cause they they said like it just worked on like a their standard office. They didn't have to run a special fiber over, so there is a lot of compression happening there as well. So to me, the real question is like: how does it actually in person laura, and I think it was one of the few people outside of google to like be able to describe it, and she said it was very real, but as soon as he like moved a little bit to the left or the right, it started to to break the illusion. Yeah in another one for the what is a photo files right like you're. Looking A person is not there. That is Reconstructed volumes, three the model of a person, but that is react. in real time to that person's actions at a man I illegal adam.

I think then thomson should agree or forty is. Google, creates new realities and like it is Lastly- and this is Google discharged into this- and I am economy to miss- so they announced a bunch of ay I stuff that is at a high level, very cool, so they announced. Mom and land. I wish her new natural language processing systems we are joking before about. I was seeing talking. Two years are talking to paper airplane, how can a pluto? Those are their demos so that the system can take on the character of a paper airplane and then sort of converse with you. What it's like to be a paper airplane or you can conversed with pluto, which I, the a sundar and Google just directly call the planet like ten yeah? What little put any just google being a plan about here? Are you may pluto amounting pluto, that's cool and and

They can do searches with it. They have this thing, multi modal search where they can understand photos. We can take a picture of your hiking boots and say: are these boots good for hiking up whatever mountain, amid a hike up in a single understood, And all of these things look at others in my provider, conversational answer all that's great all this is in context of google, had the team on the ethical eighteen led by a researcher name tenet Hebrew who writing about how Google's language models had but profound racial implications? there is biased milton's models because they collect natural language data to create the models cheap try to publish his paper? She got into a fight with Google. She, in a bunch of our team were summarily fired. That has led to so he's been covering this restless night. James Vincent has been covering. He has actually got a great piece

how would you will send io connects to the controversy and like google just paper it over Yet, no mention of the fact that this is an internal controversy in google about whether that ai teams are acting using correct datasets. The only mention of it was they announced this image processing initiative. Were they going to change some of the camera filters and they've hired a bunch of experts across fields to make sure the image datasets are more inclusive, they're, literally going to go out and take photos, but that was that I didn't catch anything else with you. I think there was a little bit lambda about needing to be careful with the datasets needed to be responsible with it. But again it's like obviously been working on this stuff for forever. It's unclear how much of the ethical ai team contributed to it. If that controversy hadn't happened, I guarantee that they would have been like they would have talked about. The fact that they have an ethical ai

I mean ethically, I tell people, I could advise them on this. It's pretty wild, how they just went for it with the stuff and they they are, are basically daring. Everybody to be like wait, a minute and that's kind of been the reaction. Remember what they did Alex a few years ago. Whatever was we were like this is amazing and want to but wait a minute yeah. They just walked right into that again, but in a way that is, I dunno much more pointed because there's just much more, you know the ghoul did a lot worse things here than with duplex. It was just like. Oh, you didn't think of it. What the hell I know you're fired somebody what the hell- yes, James Vincent, who wrote about this for us he's not quote from Emily bender who co authored that paper in the center of the controversy with tunic hebrew and margaret mission

I hope one of the other Google researchers who's fired. Her quote is from a blog post, discussing lambda and given the history I do not have confidence. Google is actually being careful about any of the risks we raised in the paper. For one thing, they fired two of the authors of that paper nominally over the paper, so like there's, there's a big, sticky problem for google, here where they've trashed the reputation they know they have James dean who runs ai Google has said it: we've reported it and now they're watching the product or they're talking about a product in a way that is of high strategic importance. Then I honestly do not know how they're going to have how they're going to make that turn. I mean I just wanna. Do it, which is the problem, as you say, arise, gonna power through it The team is still there. It's got a new person in charge. Maybe they can come back from a but like how hard is hiring over that right? It's not a huge community and they have trash the reputation of our community in a way that, like isn't isn't like. Has they haven't you?

how to solve it. It may not even a little bit and we also know how much that ethical eighteen gets to make calls about what google's products are. so what I want, I think I did- or, as some of you have mentioned, in the context of voice search a million times right you ask a Google home hub. in a question you only one answer: you get Oh contextual, information about where the answer came from you don't get other central answers or links. You guy get told information in Google. If you look at their presentation across, I am all Search results are geared towards giving you the one answer in an out some stuff in search of architectural search was, Alison. Why were showing this to you in there? You know this. What two things are ads are out more clearly, which is hilarious, because that is totally a problem of their own, making but they ve stuff. So many athens or drills- and I have to tell you things were now, but

as you got on these roads and you start centre computers and tell you more things you can take. A picture of your shoes asked the computer. If the shoes are appropriate, to where you gonna community. Until you an answer and seizure, generate an answer and tell it to you like a person answer. My writing might involve no they're, not, but you can go by the issues and when she do able haired eyes right. We politicians like all of these moments now for Google, where instead of showing you were, information, might be they're gonna become the provider of it and are obviously trying to automate it. Unlike If you, Google, has mostly escape the facebook dynamic right Like the algorithm is bad facebook dynamic, they definitely with youtube. It's absolutely. There but as a sort of turn, search and mass and all the other stuff into natural language. Single result a I systems like who, Yeah man, you need an ethically. I team show like, showing people the work more than ever

because Google's italy, the way that I think facebook is and google is also when you, when it gives you these answers, they're coming from Google, they might tell you what the source was, but when you get just one answer the person, the entity, the responsibility for the accuracy of that answer is going to end up falling on Google in a way where it hassle on facebook, Facebook can kind of slide around it and say: well, it's our algorithm, it's but other people or other people are posting misinformation, blah blah blah blah disclosure. My wife works for facebook. Reality labs used to be called oculus, etc. Yeah, it's going to be a tougher problem in the future for both Companies- yeah, I just it does the demos are cool. You should watch them. It's fun to watch soon, you're talking to a planet. It was even I thought when he showed a breaking as hilarious where he was like polluters answer is sometimes I play with the moon. and it's like. Oh, this is how the world ends like the computers. Get feelings like they they blow up the moon, but I just

I want to end via section on this, because it is a huge issue for Google and, like you know, any argument, evil up certain apple, and I beg you competition, and I trust Where is the competition for dual me spaces? If Google's whose us up where you gonna go to search for, things on the web in a meaningful and realistic way, especially like it's like apple's going to taste like stop taking the Google money so like I, I think the pressure on google to get this right is high and needs to bb get even higher. Okay weren't take a break or come back. We got some. We got some gadget reviews talking about. This is really a classic her chest wherever this episode is brought to your wife,

the fine? That's the sound of switching your business to shop, a fight, the global commerce platform that supercharged you're selling, harness the best converting check out and same intuitive features, trusted apps and powerful analytics his by the world's leading brands, stopped leaving sales on the table. Discover why millions trust shop, a fight and bill grow and run their business sign up today for your one dollar per month, trial period at shop, a fight outcome, slash tech, twenty three, I'm Josh mucho host of the pitch from box media people describe the pitch as the anti shark tat and I actually agree take everything you think you know about venture capital, start ups and fund raising and throw it out because, on my show, you'll hear the true story of how these deals get done.

On our upcoming seasoned you'll, hear legendary investors like charles hudson and was within invest over a million dollars in the start, ups featured on a shout- and let me be clear- none of this is staged each episode of the pitch teachers, real entrepreneurs, pitching real investors for real money. Then we go the extra mile to tell the true story of what happens after everyone shakes hands and walks out of the room. Listen to the pitch podcast to learn from the smartest investors and founders. Inward season and starts on Wednesday august. Twenty third follow the pitch for free. Wherever you listened, the pot casts we're back gonna end my You're a view. The m one I'm act, which is beautiful, dieter your view and one had pro and then You understand this losses are nothing. Let's start with these.

Dana start with janik yeah. I, the imac is finally that We designed that everyone's been over a decade. I love it so much. It is very pretty comes in a bunch of fun colors. We were able to review and see the purple one and the orange one which have dumb marketing names that I cannot remember. If you can remember them as purple and orange, they also the green and blue and silver and yellow. So if you want a yellow computer, you can now buy one. But the point is it's: basically, if you took a macbook pro and one and put it into a desktop chassis with a twenty four inch screen, really great speakers, that's what this is and that's exactly how it functions it performs. It's got great performance for everyday work. It's very quiet! It's very quick! It's very responsive! The webcams great speaker, sound great. The it's got three microphones, sound great, so Monica tested it out bunch with the for video calling, because that's what we're all doing now and it's a really great video calling michelle, but it's not like the imac that people who have bought,

max for the past few years have probably been waiting for because the eye mac fur. Obviously since its beginning, was like the family computer, it was a way to get online. Initially, it was all in one very simple, but as time has called on and things like, the macbook air have kind of replace the default computer from desktops the imam became more of a focused professional tools. Are video team uses, I'm back all the time lots of creative rational use? I max all the time this new, I mac is not probably the computer for that. They're gonna want to wait for something more powerful, bigger sri, more ports, there's only for ports on this that you can get so, but it is a kind of the return of the classic bundy blue eye mac. came out in nineteen. Ninety eight yeah. So actually I I think, you're wrong that this is something that people in waiting for. My parents bought an imac in the pandemic because they just want they need a desktop. They needed a bigger screen and they wanted to make video calls. Have it easier in a format they're familiar with, because figuring out. The Facebook Portal is a nightmare

and and so like I'm a little bit bummed that they don't have this computer, because it'll be so much happier with it later they could like they could move it around and stick it on the kitchen table if they wanted to. I think the computer is great, that it's a great computer for sure, but like for the audiences listening to the verge gas, for the audience that reads the verge reviews- they probably it's, probably not the computer for them. It's not the the computer. For me, I it's like a twenty four inch screen. It's like that. One like what am I gonna do with that. I would the first if I had this computer on my desk. The first thing I would do is stick a thunderbolt dock into the back of it, so I could actually have functional and do what I wanna do so like it's. It's not that the computer for someone who cares about that stuff, but for some people, like your parents, leader or like for people who are not, you know that you know care about it. It's it's! It's a great functional computer that they can literally put down on a desk and not worry about it for like after ten years, which was like the dream of the ibec yeah? I mean I dunno, we kind of when these were announced. We kind of poked around at the idea of like

did you know everybody was going to work from home and he had an m one ships. He made like a fun colorful good work from him and like the responses like man, wish. We were that good right, like yeah, but they have hit a moment where a lot of people are reconsidering how, when they're gonna work alone, people are like. I am. I want to have like a nice home office situation. Let me know the office it is computer is perfect. Like they're gonna sell some any of these so so so many of these, in its also like a brand new five nanometer chip them one at any price instead apple controls, all the supply to therapy notion of shortage its whatsoever. It's like well, there might be some actually apple was going to say might be. They might be running it, but like just in terms of media. Like your plan meeting a moment in like having that moment kind of be perfect, I think they've they've nailed it for a huge.

Class of people that is reconsidering whether they're gonna go back to an office in, like, I think, if you, if you not like, I cannot recommend enough. You have a laptop, get an external display and a keyboard and just tilt your head up, like don't look down at your laptop all day, just like sit up and look straight and if you are in the market for a new computer like maybe you don't want your laptop to follow you around the house and make you work all of the time. Maybe like work should stay in a room and, like I dunno I, I think the m one power thing like how powerful is this computer really I mean I want to. I want to wait for a bigger screen and a faster computer, but most people are looking at thirteen inch laptop screens. There's just a part of me. It's like apples nail it so completely with this computer that I want to get one just to have it, even though I don't need it put it in your kitchen. That's where apple wants you to put it in the kitchen,

work will follow you and yeah. I do why? Don't they? Why didn't they discuss on the ipad? But why didn't they do the center stage? Video calling thing with us It's very I answered. I have no idea. It's got a great image sensor in merits. Tenant appeal from seven twenty now monica did like. If you watch the video should impairs it directly to the camera. That's the m one macbook pro, and it is night and day. Obviously, it's not going compared to like setting up your own rig with a mirrorless camera and all this other stuff that people have done over the past year, but just compared to like what it was before. It is much better experience in terms of video, I think the answer to centre stage is the same reason. The matter is why they didn't put face id on the imac. It's just it's a lot of work to recreate that stuff on the mac and I dunno an ipad out so clearly the camera backyard and they do this. They want to do it. Scary and dangerous. That's why

not as speakers again we despised and places any talk about atlas in losses, I like it supports. Don't we address the spatial audio apple music, just rolled out just as extremely complicated lossless audio plan yeah yeah, so there you can get it's not gonna cost me one anymore, so the complexity of it is like whatever, but there's two different things happening at once. One is what should be. The more straightforward thing. Is that quality levels of apple music awry? I sing so now, instead of wherever they were at compressed air sea. You can now get. Lastly, this apple music that comes into different quality tears dan. Am I correct about this yeah? So there's a lossless and then there's high death lossless. Ok,

This makes sense. So there's two tracks here one is like existing apple music is gonna, be higher quality, and that is very complicated. It involves a lot of apples own hardware, not supporting anything so that the base level was going support, seedy quality audio, which is Larry, is to me because everyone is always talking at cd quality idea, but like citys can that thirty years ago we are gotta be well to do better than like one article, this format, city, haughty audio, is sixteen bit at forty four point. One kilohertz says of numbers: they can follow the rabbit Well, those numbers you want, but those are the numbers that indicate CD quality audio then on apple devices, but by apple devices we mean macs and ios devices. Not anything else is a big point on apple devices. You can get twenty,

orbit it forty eight killers, which is a good and meaningful step up. Then you can also further goats. Twenty forbid it. A hundred ninety two killers, If you have an extremely usb digital audio converter, russia's, like another box, you to binding pugsy, anti evans and so on, at the top level. Therefore music, you need to buy a piece of non apple hardware at the middle level of apple music, but you can use your phone or you're mac to listen to it properly over the builtin speakers, because the funds and have advised jack's yeah. Not you can't listen to any of this. If you have apples headphones, if you have airports or airports max or airports pro it gets,

more complicated than that, because the thing that apple says is day that so that that highest here, where you need the external hardware, you cannot listen to that with airports max or homewards. Full stop right! That losses tier before you get to the highest here is not called loss less when you are listening through airports max whether you're doing it wired or wireless, an apple says this is because what happens is the audio is converted into analogue? Then it's really digitized for the airports max because they do not have an analogue to digital converter, and so it's it's. It's digital goes to analogue becomes digital again when it hits your before us your ears, where

it comes out. The speakers or whatever that can last conversion means that apple can't call it lossless, because it is not yet the pure audio, because the airplanes airports are shaping the music themselves right, they do get their own exact are shaping the music right, but the twenty four bit. Forty eight khz signal comes in, gets converted, and then it gets re converted back into twenty four bit. Forty eight khz. So it's like that level is still maintained, but it can't be called lossless because of the number of times the conversion. So it is like kind of this wonky thing that the gist of it all is it'll, probably sound great, like I think it's going to sound great in your airpods max, but like you can't, hey. I've got lost, listen my ears. I will save apple for years, said nobody can hear the seven wasn't worth it and now they're like they're in it right, and I think that's because we expect modifies gonna. Do it apt, amazon, music, the same day announced their job.

the price of amazon, music aged something happened. Yeah right like there was a smoke filled zoom with the music industry. Wait what there was like a bug in the app where you could like see a hi fi option appear criswell. She found it on reddit and found it and, like confirmed eyes on phone here's. The thing I mean one, the let's just talk about the fact that apple and amazon, giant tech behemoths with piles of cash to burn are offering this for free when we think amazon or spotify is going to have to charge more aspects. Being one thing too, I know there's a lot of people defending it explaining why the airports bats can't do it and, like you know, you do understand audio, and this is why the hindu, whenever, but under no apple, chose to make your posts max they not that long ago, presumably somebody in the airports max team could evolve wandered over to the other, music team is today what you workin on. I know that there is a lot of what our survival,

come on is describing is the wired mode right where to go, on your computer, you gotta do a deal digital handler conversion with a phone. since in the lightning adapter right. That's, I get an analog audio jack and then you plug it in and the airpods convert it wirelessly the airports max, that's bluetooth, an apple doesn't support any losses. Protocol of publicity, like it is necessarily compressed. So when you're like the airports maxed, he knew I don't need you, they probably know it was happening down the line with apple music. They knew right like from the start. the only bluetooth kodak that they were supporting was like limited and buildings headroom into the system. could all this change Wwdc? Could they today adequately That too, I was too the iphone. Could they update the w and maybe But then, why why why now support islands for now,

because the music industry I got together like you're doing it tomorrow, my fate My favorite reaction to all this is for years and years. Apples like this doesn't matter. Nobody can hear it a bunch of other people. I know it matters aura and now apple announced it at a bunch of audio people like it doesn't matter. Nobody can hear this. It's completely flipped so. We still have a lot of questions on him. So no support irreplaceable, like many many questions to be answered, not of apples pay just make any this particularly clear. We outfit That is just one track of the apple music chaos in that promise you was the simpler set of problems to solve because all you do you think you're taking the existing music library and you're compressed it or in some cases like here, encoding it differently right, ear to the EU. Not stereo, audio to channels. You ve got a mass. your version of it somewhere that's unimpressed uneven

encoded into one of the many formats and my ship it out over the internet it to some complicated scheme that will eventually make sense. There also announced in support for dolby atlas in spatial which requires a new library of music. That has been re mixed for at death and there is even less information about and the only thing I ever think about it and it's a different formats and amazon sony which are using like? What's it called, then some sony? I was so He has three sixty rio amazon's. Actually, the one in between who supports both utmost and threats. I think amazon music is due as three sixty reality and not atlas. I think it's. I think it's actually, but of course, but I mean I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, the studio its birth, but you, you won't know really which one

when, when you're playing it like it's just one of them. Anyhow, all I remember, as we review the echo studio, you discovered, the tracks had had instruments added on to them to make the sound more three da and literally no one tell the story. I don't think anyone has ever explained to us what exactly happened yet. So I'm I'm testing out. This was a couple of years ago at the echo studio, came out amazon rolled out it's three d: music support with the echo studios like their product to showcase it on, and there were, like, I dunno ten tracks that I could test it with. One of them happened to be cameron's. Oh boy from two thousand and two So, of course, I'm listening to that a bunch and I'm listening to it in stereo mode and I'm listening to an a three d mode, and I realize that when I'm in three mode there's this whole orchestra of citrine in the song that don't exist in stereo mode and like this, to that end, no, where and how we can comment on it from em.

One amazon's like studios can choose to add this. Add things things the songs, however, if you open or whatever we tweet about this, it goes out on twitter, Jonathan from boy genius who worked in the music industry for a long is not a connections there happens to know. Just play is like that. Just play what they did two years long and just places like that, get paid for this. I dunno by the way the you are correct. The echo studio supports both in amazon, amazon, music hd is atmos, not three sixty reality audio. All these are bad names. My point is, if you think the chaos and confusion of lossless format, support is not just wait until artists are like, I remade this in atmos in your life. great emily turn my head and listen for stuff. Then they realize there's nothing to hear back there because they were the court.

In syria and their way. What if we put some strings in this cause? That's it I just don't know why I this is the one where the music for years like there, hi revenue model, was format, shifting yeah google so they would sell you for years. Dark side of the moon by pink floyd was like the best selling album in the world is because every couple years you would go from eight track tick sets to vinyl. Also cities and everybody would just rabbi dark side of the moon cause. You can you it in. I mean like smoke waiting what it was. It was the wizard of oz, yeah it's like everyone's like hitting play on a track player and watching the wizard of oz like oh, I gotta buy this on cd when that's real. They don't have format shifting anymore just streaming. So this is like an obvious attempt to do a format shift, but they didn't raise the Ices, though I have no idea what the point of this is.

On the other side, the music industry, everybody all the new artists, but just trinity tik tok beats yeah like half. The music industry is like the songs, need to be one minute long and have a clear hook that you can dance to and we're going to master it for phones and the other half the music industry is like we're, adding strings to cameron, so people will buy new speakers and it just doesn't seem like a strategy to me, anyhow, but will there be strings in the tiktok beats, there's always strings, then tick tock beats you gotta get the woes man with look read our record us up interview. I think my favorite thing that we've published, let's talk about our record as a profile, so much okay, speaking of There's the ipad pro has four of them really good. Sire viewed the ipad pro the dead, the top by nine eleven. I did not deeply test space

audio, because it's the same as before, in fact a lot of stuff on these, I present the same as before The things that are new are center stage or she disgusts. You can follow you around and am one ship and the top white nine has a mini l e d display that is called the liquid retina xdr, I believe, is the Maybe that's why, and why do you want a little red? Then I fear licorice next year, hip what we have witnessed. Why so the review you in dinner point out how works? It's got this huge, creative, microalgae back lights one thousand, as we were talking about it as like. You've got to run a blooming test because I'm a gigantic display nerd yeah, and that is the first thing I thought of it seemed like it did pretty okay and assists yeah. I think it did I like you, could see it. You can see the blooming around the little square dot moving around the screen, but I haven't personally regime. Dude. A bunch of all entities have obviously looked at all the tv's. I don't currently own one, but blooming is unavoidable. They've got twenty five hundred local dimming zones, blah blah blah, but

there, but when you're, actually watching a movie or looking at each the hour photo you just don't see it clear. You should know that the brightness on the screen is specifically for full screen application. So you need to go. Full screen in a video or in a photo front. A kick in the extreme hd are that can peek at sixteen hundred nets and have an overall screen brightness of thousands. Does it do the thing that the iphone does when you're watching hd are where it like actual visibly shifts over into hd arbogad? As you play the video and its great I'm sorry it's fucking great near the the blacks are black. Everything. Looks amazing colors feel more accurate because there's actually detail the texture that is lost in a traditional backward system. The screen when you're dyke watching movies is incredible. It's so good is that worth the extra money that is that is between you and your bank account. to me because the extra money is it's a hundred dollars more than it was last year right

if they had this thing in the eleven inch out of out about it by now, I prefer the eleven inch size on the ipad pro but yeah. I would like just just cuz. I have no idea why they didn't. Is it too expensive? So they want to keep the ipad pro the cheaper. They are not able to make enough components to fit into both unclear, unknown. That's a screen! I did run into one weird thing where in dark mode in ebook, apps, there's like more than blooming behind it. It's like kind of lit up like big gray squares. You will not see it unless you are like a pitch black room reading and I just won't, but when you see it, you're like what the hell is that and it's actually distracting enough to like have put me off wanting to use it to reed at night mother about either any model. I did all the romantic basically disappears

I am assuming there's like a very complicated backlight controller that is just being confused by big blocks of text. Well, I will tell you, though, it's like it's not just blocks of text like in in in ibooks, there's like a page number page to just all by itself down in the bottom of the less left hand page and nothing else near it, and it had like two by two inch square of grey around it for one did the apples and any others their day day they die, because sometimes only review things I find vice and they're like yeah, we'll we're back to you and I think they're still investigating why I think, even if you think about that ten thousand micro lady grid, it is basically just a second lower resolution display yet like a lower resolution, black and white display behind the main color display and so

I mean we ve seen this time. I would see as our many times but like the tv demo. when they show you local dimming elsie. These decisions each layer of the tv operating yet and so the local dimming one is like the show you the personal. contrast the screen and there's like a block ear. Lapd person re like like that display controller and how fast it works out response. It is like it's a significant engineering project and feels like this prior display controllers offer update that needs to come. yeah by the way. I was thinking about this because you said the yellow color thing in and occurred to me. I just googled this. This was probably wrong. a lot of the way you perceive brightness is based on the green channel, which is why pension, screens have more green pixels cause. They can look brighter I think, yellow is like one of the weird ones

so now that you ve got a better back like you can actually perceived of cause. You call that yellow specifically island there, he went it ever since Doug. Yellow is one of the weirder ike harder ones. So you got a backwards Logic can make the yellows brighter she can perceive. The difference in the allows is crazy to me. To see my obsession with pets out of this space finally paid off, and I'm only going to watch movies with an utterly patient them. So I can look at his blonde hair. I do, Do you think we're gonna? Do something bigger david ABC with someone ship I mean that's like every year. ever view, as you call it out, like don't wait like nothing indicates that apple is gonna, make this thing more of a mac, and anyone who knows but like apple, has certainly not indicated that go to make this a while. I was just for babies We wanted to tell my god, so we should just eight dm one. If you use various pacific apps. You will perceive speed difference unlike rendering or doing stuff, but if you don't know exactly what obviously

by the a serious chipped and you will not notice it is fat is just as fast. It feels ass whenever it supports thunderbolt, but again the way that apple supports third party sesar is on the ipad continues to be frustrating the one that I specifically called out is audio stuff. So if you have a thing plugged into that, like has a speaker like my doc, there's no controls to tell the I've had no don't use that play on the ipad if, if You can find the setting till I get audio back to the ipod peacetime because it's not the little airplane looking thing controls and to do it for me and that's it like. The ipad is great and it's like them enjoyable computer to use until you can't do anything until you like hit a while and then its frustrating

So I have no idea what I consider to be dvd see they are do like the kind of like. If it is, you do like a tick, tock small update, big update strategy last year's ipad up day was pretty minimal. Didn't do much so maybe they're due to allow this year, but we will. you will see one of the challenges apple now has is craig federal. You just said the entire software model, the I pad arrival, asses keeping you safe The mac is like a car and you to learn how to drive it needs and interests, and the ipad is like right in the middle of those two approaches and what they need to do is make it more open and extensible and flexible and easier to use, but then they're going to have to give up. The things- and I owe s rightly, if you want- Hey truly had you have to de abstract the file system, yet talking to do it.

right and like I just wondered like the things people want ipads do like you can do most of them. I worked from an ipad for most have today. Actually it was fine, but the second, like I gotta, get something that we had how many times we have this conversation, I just think they're they're challenge now that they want to keep the iphone so lockdown in the face of all this anti trust pressure. Is going to land squarely on the ipad, not moving yeah we make any concessions on the ipad. People are gonna, say why? Don't you make the same concessions on the phone right? Was that a different name? It's ipad ios? It's not just me. That's did I mean honestly, maybe that's why they did it man, I don't I I I could complain about what the computer or the ipad for another three years. I'm sure I will be what about the just like briefly, what about the

fact that apple, I think we've seen what the amazon devices are going to be right, like the the low end macbook pro the macbook air, the imac and now surprisingly, the ipad they've just like taking this this thing and they slapped it in all their consumer stuff. So we know there's more. Another version of the am process are coming for the higher end, macbook pro it'll be a higher end imac. Is it weird that the like this is just the same chip in the mac and the ipad is lie the only one that has a hang up on that? I know that they're not going to run mac apps, but they just like the create this amazing board, and they just like put it all the computers and it like that, feels more plan c than ever to me here. I think it it's weird to us, since when where listeners like now, we know it can just do all the things in a way that apple use, I have an argument that indulgence were different. Architectures were different and they had cost built a series processors to do excellency knots

just openly saying it's the same ship any then you know over here on morocco s which is starting to inherit a lot of ireland. I was paradigms taking as do all the things, so I think there's awareness if you know, but I think apples also very proud of the end one ship there very proud of the fact that it can run every form of actor from at eleven inch. I've had up to an I'm at them like it in that's just a huge range of thermal constraints. Data can I do a good job and all those several concerns gimme it and one apple watched. I think, they're, like their general pride, it like leaving the industry and ship design, far supersedes ass being like the operating systems, are really close, and why won't you just? Let me your touch my mattered later, a window on the ipad yeah right, that's the only things that need to do

two layers, some windows. You touch this rain and I think apple doesn't care and I really do think it. Maybe it should certainly would strenuously they are in a position where now where to move the ipad. Closer to mac, where a lot of people wanted to go. They would have to give up those concessions on the phone, and that is just a dangerous, dangerous place for them to be right at the second. I like to do in conclusion. The summary of everything here is: they should add maltese or to the ipad, because it's punitive that they don't that is, I don't understand why, though they do not do it because days did they want make you by both? That was going to be the original way I was going to kick. The video is like the reason is because they target a afford. They want to make you buy both and that's like mean and whatever, but it's not it. It's not like the right attitude to take towards the ipad, because it is such an amazing computer, but yeah

I just think that they they want everybody to have an ipad. They think it's a personal device that has a lot of work to make a multiuse right as ios is not architected to be that way from the jump and that's what like having to retcon retcon. That in is like a ton of work. I don't know if it's They they did that work on the education in Riyadh, education, education, I've had are like the well, Jesus there's like okay. I think that they probably don't think it's a good enough experience so like set out to everybody, but I wish they would they ve already made they already been willing to make the ipad complicated, trying to figure out like, but the windows on the ipad is hard. It's not easy to figure intuitive at all. So there's whatever make a cup it's already complicated, make it more complicated, offer multi user so that a family that can't afford for ipads can like actually use one yeah, especially with like remote schooling, all this other stuff that we've lived through like it's sitting there for them.

This is our end. I just want to say this out loud We did a startling review last week we talked about it at length. If this is so, even listening to the show for any amount of time, but, for example, over the past ten years, I will happily disco to you as many times as you wish, and this universal apart of comcast, is a minority investor in VOX media which owns the verge. I promise you that comcast does not love me like I just I there's that the number of experience I I have been told this company is up, and of our coverage of them is is numerous, and I also promise you that, even if they owned us and controlled us, That would not be what it takes to influence me into saying that wired connections are better than wireless once wishes

which is really the thing that people are mad at me for saying that I think The telecom industry in this country has utterly failed to connect people well and if you look at other countries around the world with different petition models from policy regimes. Cemetery, I'm on a beach in I'm on a remote beach in Sweden, I'm paying for my five. Providers, basic plan, and I have two hundred up and down like that. I wonder it's a big country. There's all these issues, most feebleness country have electricity. We probably do a better job of running broadband cables to weigh more places and making the market more competitive, which was at the heart of my starling review. You look it if you just look at what the most Like the harshest lines that review are, they are dedicated to the telecom industry in this country, not starling, even though I think starling for a lot of people might be a good solution in the end,

its all I'm say I don't wanna like engage too much. I just thinking of very funny to accuse me in particular of being in the pocket of comcast in did you say that wired connections are better than wireless ones? If anything happened, evocative hd, my in big We all know that I just want to put that other. That's this measure we dispose of all over the site, This goes to show all the time. I think it is a very funny it's I am sympathetic to. I understand it. Some of the criticisms are valid. I got the name of the dish wrong. It's did she make flat face anticipated space. We did correct that the peace I think people are so desperate for conductivity. There miss their angry their angry at the wrong things. There is like a helplessness about broadband in this country that is utterly devastating to see in person in so I'm not upset or mad about this, I'm just pointing out how upset other people are.

the teeter lives in san francisco. Yet terminals goes everyone's upset that I live here. I live in new york city like even if you want to make the big land, yet america's big and population like in san francisco in new york city too, most densely populated, inexpensive places to live in this country. It is hard to get good broadband dieter. Your broadband connection is, like you, have a gig, a bit up and down the is not available to me the best I can get his doctors from xfinity and I hate it. I'd hate for their macs to their max plan, and it's, like you, know, a gig down, but that usually doesn't hit that and it's twenty five up. Why is it only twenty five up? Who knows- and I think if I moved, if I, if I happen to

we have moved like six blocks. I would have access to sonic, which is an independent. I p. I think it runs on top of anti entities fiber, and I would love to give them my money. I would be so happy to give my money to it Let us be as other independent ice P. Hearings have to so called monkey brains, which is very good, but it's just like its microwaves and adds its all the too slow for my knees. So my plan here living where I live, as if I need to upload something I will in my bike and ride to our office at twenty minutes away, go through a coded protocols. No I'm serious! I go. I go through our covered protocols. I like fill out the survey. I get permission from the company to go to the office so that I can upload a file that sport. Then you know a bunch of gigabytes, like twenty eight bytes, I mean shoot video. I have to go to the office because riddick is the only provider I have here and they suck anyway. I just think like that. San Francisco, that's not the middle of rural america, which is where I'm sitting

one choice. That's all I want is a just. This ankara was more about broadband in america than one thing, and it was in the particular about american tell it policy always promising you, a new conductivity technology incentive in investing into deploying the ones that work. and making sure those markets are combated it. I think that is a mistake You around the world and see other countries have a different policy choices and their citizens are connected and much faster speeds for much lower prices. That's it disclosure NBC universal, a division of comcast, isn't a minority investor in VOX media which owns the verge, and I I promise you. I absolutely promise you they do not let us okay, that's it! That's the fridge as a means for that takes along. But if you know me, you know that I'm very prosperous should have a proper policy. It routinely bores the staff of the verge to tears. That's my real problems.

instant, low grade mutiny. If I talk my problem pulsing, that's it that's a very! we ve got another up, so we wait for her. More than another episode coming later born there more than that, it's like ours, too. We went for an end and we went over is what I'm really trying to say if bias atty are going to do another episode of the verge has later today, after tim cook, wraps up his epic vs apple testimony, so look out for that, you can tweet at us. Deter is at backline dan is at dc seaford. I met reckless by the time this comes out, I'm until you, so decoder with ford ceo, Jim Farley, talking with a new efforts. Fifty lightning will be up in

world I was a wild plant. He basically told me that he would be able to operate the computers in cars, the same whether you can have very like the shocks and the seats who I would love to see that happen. He did not have an answer when I said why be able upgrade my current car to your new andred up learning system. Just didn't answer my question that was sitting. I know the ethical enjoy yours. I think, and I think that the answer to that question, but that is up, goes That was a really fun absurd to do likewise,. Back later later on friday, with apple versus epic and we backed again next week. That's it encourages,

I like to get a vaccine, the air ryan reynolds at mid mobile. We like to do the opposite of what big wireless. Does they charge you a lot. We charge you a little so naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices, did not hating you. That's right. We're cutting the price of meant unlimited from thirty dollars a month to just fifteen dollars a month, give it a try at mid mobile dot com, slash, switch new activation and up front payment for three men plan required taxes, and these extra additional restrictions apply seem at mobiles outcome for full terms,