Today on the verge cast a fake war between twitter and apple. Then sam thank been freed of empty ex, just cast off admitting to fraud and, of course, all the gadget news from this week. That's coming up right after this support for this shit comes from the genesis gb. Seventy performance suv. Every genesis is a reminder to try something to keep growing, keep hustling at genesis. They ve harness all that excitement of beginnings into their performance as the jp seventy, it's a car built to turn with stunning design inside and out it's packed with intuitive technology inside, like the fourteen point, five infotainment system and fingerprint recognition Lastly, gb. Seventy features all we'll drive with down to add a little more exhilaration. Your next drive genesis JD. Seventy is waiting for you. What will you begin

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into the new york times, even though your lawyer says don't do that, I'm refreshing our transit here, I'm your friend who thinks you should always do that. Do ever the lawyer says: do the opposite? encourage the audience to stop listening to this body. Has sunday don't know what else to tell you just when it s different like it is journalistic value. To me personally. Do the opposite, Alex heathens here, hey no, I'm actually coming around hating free speech in america, This is really quite tiresome. Yeah, it's becoming annoying honestly yeah. You know, I think we should just shut down. Let's go back toward the founders. did, which was quite honestly, not the free speech that you expect today. That's a different path. Ass, we get into later. I will note for the listener to Alex, is no david, pierce David. Now produced a child regulations David. Tell me what said child is named

only assume that his name, the baby bluetooth to dot one plus idiotic pierce that's my guess, he's holding up different cables going. This is usb yeah. This is three and usb a pierce, but they wrote before that not be here for next few weeks, congrats to David, where have a bunch of people fillion is going to be a good time. For everyone, except David, he's, not getting any sleep, but but he got a baby out of it. He had a baby. I don't say that childbirth I've heard is amazing, but as you age, I'd like anyhow congrats to David tweet at him and I'm sure he'll adhere for you So it's. Why are we talking about the tiresome free speech? America, it's because on twitter and apple went at it again this week. We got to that sam bank and freed won't stop talking to reporters. What

if TX like just one that will not be free speech for him. Yes, this is the speech that will put him in jail and lead him directly to not being free of the dealbook conference. For that big interview with Andrew a certain boy by the way, speaking of free speech in america, MIKE pence said first, I revere the constitution and then was asked what content moderation was like. Well, you can't fire in a creditor. Can I just say for the record for the virtuous audience the fire in a crowded? and I'm sure you for me or atty says for ensuring that line is throw a throwaway line in a supreme court has called schenk, the supreme court held, government could arrest you for telling people. The current stability. We are what less than five minutes- and I already talking about fire in a crowded theatre, it's gone It's it's, as I drive me crazy besides over that case, was overturned in another case of brain of work. this I throw away liner case overturned and ever hugh saint transient bunkers me bonkers,

hence the former vice president sage was used in my pants he's like well, you know you can't say fire an eye out loud was ah you harangue who workers who all looked at me, so thank you listening. I can walk you through it. The best part of this as both in my pants run stage together right. If he had been Same do know they were not answer this at the time they were nearly backtrack. Impressive conference in cairo seekers. Again. I believe that my pants is a listener of the show, absolutely year marshalling so issue my cc pants pensioners. Enough really to excellent figures, to excellent public figures that we should all aspire to be one day. Yeah baby yeah ties, I told the shopping, the one hundred transistor it's like. I know my limit as a reporter is like a tech reporter, like I can't cross over into politics or general news cause. I just can't figure out how to pretend that I care about what mike pence has to say like I just can't

I can't turn it on and I hear that it has a really great book about his time in office. Don't read it Andrew Ross. Sorkin actually did it's free speech. You should read it so the book is consequently got in yesterday. Sorkin, was you saying goodbye to pence? He looked at him and said so help me. God thank you, which was deeply funny. Wow, okay, wow we'll get a sbs on that stage on the armies and was going to have in a bit. Let's start with twitter apple. Tim cook giving you on a tour of the apple campus wishes. Do aware. outcome of this whole thing. It was just a weird week of like that culture, war and iran wanting to launch twitter, blue and the apple tax tall just collapse. rhonda santas round the sand, just like the so crazy that you could get heath what's goin on what is going on. I looks like masking cook squash, the beef mosques, did the weak, saying apple, you know: do they hate free speech in america?

no spoiler the hated and china, not america. Yeah. I saying this and then you know complaining about the thirty percent. This was a few days after phil schiller had mysteriously, you know the head of the app store deleted. His twitter account after trump had been reinstated. The vibes were starting to shift between apple and twitter. Why is this important? Our listeners are smart but I should just say: twitter walls probably cease to exist if apple ever decided to kick it off of its appstore, so apples, its most credit source of distribution? Also, sing blew the subscription products that iran is essentially bearing the future of the company on. And so there was some speculation as sir. Is he critiquing apple because he's mad about the thirty percent or has apple done this thing that does sometimes quietly behind the scenes with apps and say: hey we know why go we're seeing on here. There's too much, you know acts. I think you all roth twitters former.

at the trust and safety etc. The new york times out there that you know there were people at apple who had raised concerns about there being too much nudity on the platform before example, so you know must comes in he fires alive. You know, moderators talks about letting pretty, anything go amnesty for all the band accounts. I can imagine apple got concerned. Twitter is wanting to push and update for the new to relaunch blue, which got too late again this week, but apples tied up in all that, and they have the power to actually keep the twitter out from being updated until twitter meets whatever their specific slash. Vague demands are that they dont publicity because they're apple, somehow this all led to IRAN masking tim cook, walking out the part together around Have you been there to that too, that specific body of water nearby grants yet and fearful? So I imagine,

if you're, an apple engineer and you're out there taking lunch, taking a call- and maybe that's like a normal thing to see- I doubt it, but I would have loved to have seen the mirage or, lastly, it was definitely tim cook, as we saw the photo. I saw the shadow, but we can Many other some shadow analysis done and it looks like him a cardboard standin could not even be given this. we have a twitter. You know that could have been a fake account that tweeted that we don't actually know that that was mosque, and I will say that, and we were told apple employees had seen the two of them walk around together by like very specifically, that, like they did it that way, so that it would get out they made a show of the two of them walking around such that other people would see them walking around too so that they wouldn't have to confirm inefficiently. Which is- and we assume it was because he wanted to talk about the thirty percent which twitter wooden actually have to pay, because its less for these kind of subscriptions well suited for some the first year.

this is like a truck spain. He drops to fifteen in the second, This is what I say like this. whole story out of control, we ve done this before I've been here. I live here, They have a vacation home in the app store, tim sweeney, he sales a ship peer. Once we hear yell about it, we spend a lot of time talking about these policies. They're not great. I dont think that the vast majority of the tech industry. Love the dew opera we power of apple and google when it comes to their stores, and especially these fees her in purchasing right- and I know that that's true, because their word trials about it, because I these companies over those policies, the trial took a month Who won the google one is like ongoing Who knows all the way up at the court of appeals? They ve already had arguments

that's where we were all the way there now it's eat, because real onward like starting at the beginning and he's literally tweeting, did you know apple charges a fee and its to me. It's an element of bad faith embedded in that you don't say, One of the most gentle wave, of course, was the thirty percent for thirty percent. As a first year, european journey appstore right like the first You have the sore subscription progress, didn't twitter already launched this launch this subscription product. So weird but our blue, which I believe is four dollars a month. I paid for that version, because that was the one that on our side and many others got way block the answer. If you click on a link to our sight from twitter and you are paying for twitter blue, we wouldn't show you the ads and we'll get the sense that we would get we'd click pennies from youth

Why do you wear blue subscription paint the spot, a fight, the business model that spot? If I has used to make so many artists, rich finally comes, but by your for all, our among twitter was absorption, but I was paying for that one cause. I thought it was nice to pay the publishers that I visit most often directly. Was I mostly paying the company that I work for yes, but caring for that one in that one was indeed and enact purchase, and I had to cave on, big poor who was to heads of product ago, Alex yeah, actually yeah, This gave on was that of france. He was of eight was reasonably successful for twitter had a product under dorsey and he was on decoder. And I spent a lot of time asking him about the thirty percent fifteen percent fee yeah, because everything twitter wanted to do at that time ran into the sea. This is twitter, blue, expanding at this as they were. Do us a competitor sub stack. The

Swirl of any t nonsense. It was raging like energy summer and as it were, can to do about these fees and he was, very clear in that interview, We are not in the business of skirting the platform rules. We are going to pay the money and try to build their businesses the right way, and maybe, if we get enough leverage, we can go talk to apple. So that's where twitter was is this new version of blue eight dollars. He needs every one of those pennies to make for the last advertising right. But my question is Apple, restart the clock was apple like oh new owner aright, we're back to thirty percent wait a whole year. No, no, no cause it's a new product. It doesn't does matter right. It's the consumer at santa company. So I sign up the first year. There I subscribe to you Alex kranz and in app purchase apple will take thirty percent. The second year of my subscription to you is fifteen percent. Ok, that's per product per customer.

Yeah, I actually think we're, maybe overplaying the imports of thirty percent you and is even try internally. Since he took over about how their intentions the only doing blue through I'll s, because they want to use apples, payments, layer and security because they don't have it in the house. We value ability to do it, so I dont actually think mosque has approved with a thirty percent. If anything, you probably sending out grenades because a conversation and started to happen. Rabble was going and this Exposing the reality of silicon valley, which is that apple, is silicon, valley's, strongest, speech regulator. They just don't call themselves that and that's because they routinely will go to a social network if they don't like what they're seeing or they don't like the direction. Something is going. I mean they booted parlor. The most famous example of them actually. Well, that's not a must, for example. What is it famous example: movie gay tumblr

okay, I know it all comes back to always comes down to the player and, I would say, parlor in the moment it was in was a bigger deal by an apple. So can valleys de facto speech tsar this because of the way they leverage the store? What probably happened around the time schiller deleted his account was too. I got a message saying: hey, we're noticing the direction that the site's going all the way. We saw earlier about the spike in racist tweets hateful tweets. Fired all your moderators. We have concerns here and guess what tourists and a cue in the revamp of blue which they need to push an update for which apple can hold, and they do this all the time where they don't say organism. If you they say this out and you know be a shame, is never came out and that's probably what was going on and you know it you are actually responded to our own J catherine access earlier in the week when jake asked directly, is all threatening you all- or

in moderation demands, and he said yes and so the Conversation with cook was probably you're. Saying. Oh, look like I care about this stuff. You know, I don't want the bad stuff and could going. Ok. Ok, now give me my thirty percent yet mosque laughed saying that currently just real quick, it definitely definite Wasn't him going and begging tim cook to do it? Him cook is repeatedly refused to do in by twitter. I don't well, it's kind of amazing that this is what got elon a meeting with TIM cook, because if we all remember there is some reporting. I don't remember if this was two years ago three years ago about how conversations where elon may be wanted. Apple. Look at buying tesla many years ago when it was struggling and tim Kirk like did it answer his call. Because I ve never spoken and only took buying your twitter for forty four billion dollars to get a meeting with Cox. No, we cannot. We can impact that further, citing Alex that the general sweep of what you ve out his crack right.

What we also now is that what for facebook or instagram or any of the big companies it's, not just irregular series of conversations with apple right. These the view run an app like twitter or instagram or whatever it is your relationship with AP review the gear in each other's pockets, because those companies are pushing updates constantly. That's why their release notes are so bad in their apps, like it's just like bug, fixes and other improvements. It's because they're they're, just like hundreds of updates that go into these apps constantly and they want to push them out really fast to support wherever doing at the other companies. There is basically an entire staff of people that just manages apple right. Leg in charge of these apple viewers, you're gonna, feel sure ready cure your best friends. Take him out to dinner. Take him out like get it done. Yeah you want fire it the tv so there's there's.

I would say like yes, maybe apples a little worried? Yes, whatever it is, time, the way to express those concerns, and the very a true implicit threat of. If you dont meet our demands, we can take you off the store. you want just doesn't have the people can can translate the apple weirdness for him to manage that relationship, and I think this just quickly spiral out of control What apple was probably saying stuff, it almost always says: that's that's my mc vague standing of it that from apple precisely. This was just the normal course of business and like if you're not used to the mafia, The threat is very threatening you gotta go make your pilgrimage.

Also iwan was like they threatened me and apples like to do know. This is just the basing, though this is just the foundation that out of the car we left nokia we're just saying hey. What can I tell you about a thing called app tracking transparency so ugly, so here's what we destroyed met his business overnight and made it seem like we're. The good guys, that's what we're able to do. This is such a strange dynamic because, as we also found out this week- and it makes perfect sense to where I wish- I would have just thought of this earlier apple- is twitter's largest advertiser. Not only is twitter totally rely on apple to survive from a distribution for active. They also need their money to just by pay the bill. this is a question mark. I I dont know why apple is twitter. Speakers advertiser, I dunno what they get out of it because they hate me book, were also they going to advertise on social, so I mean like

boom. Famously will not even put facebook in like an app store list of like apps, you need for the holidays, like apple will not touch facebook or any of their properties. They also don't we care about targeting as we see it s so if you're you're them like tours, the perfect platform. It's like just a brandy advertising like thing for events, and livestock which they do all the time the promoted hashtags. It makes perfect sense that apple and actually be twitters largest advertiser. I'm just kicking myself that anything. but sooner and out in that spend is going down all right or some reporting that it has gone up. What you can't just twitter is not in play like facebook is where it's a lot of direct response, advertisers that are running like hyper. Do you know measurable campaigns that can be turned on or off at a dime twitters, much more brand centric? We talked about this on past shows, and you can't you can't just claw back everything immediately, although it seems very real. The apple has significantly claude back at spend them.

All of it? So that's one piece right, which is the over reacting to the threat of appstore control, which is very funny like I think appstore control is bad. I think, if you listen to the show for more than five minutes, you know that I think apples control of innovation on its phone, is maybe a little bit more than it should be yeah. That's like me, being nice but it's still there and its also just everyone knows it like we ve, we ve done fifteen rounds of the story. It was kind of like when, like your parent calls you after apple event in says: what did you hear? They had new, I phone like yeah, yeah genetics. Like isn't emotion. My mom whaley is unlike what does anyone do and actually like dynamic island, His parents are not impressed by the dynamic island, nodded lack point. For example, box on the top. Now you can't move, I was

my mom. For of my mom cried when Steve jobs died and surreal fact, cheese sad about it and now lately sure, whenever she is unhappy with her phone she's like Steve jobs would have no reason for me. It's perfect, can you imagine jobs in negotiating with you on this week, he wouldn't how I can imagine I would rest and I'll show just riding out that negotiations he would have roy. Does he wouldn't put up with any of it? This is actually, I think, the important thing. This is why you on ended up on the apple campus, because TIM cook is and under raided savvy political operator may, if you think about tim cook, in what he accomplished over the past five years, yet we can make a lot of things. Actually, The top of the list is managing donald trump fox gone in china through a trade war and coming up having manufacturing shit we're iphones than ever before.

cause that was not a guaranteed situation at all, looks like an great for him with foxconn right now, but it's not as as going very badly with her rocks on, but in terms of his understanding, yeah of how to manage that kind of personality. he has more practice, and maybe any business owner in america ray and alex heat. What was in the two options here, It's reminding me a lot of what we're seeing from you on right now tracks with trump like it's very reminiscent of trump, yet so No, this for sure, but I persuade over a decade paying a lot of attention to apple and no a lot of people in around there. But you know so I'll just be in my house like pouring coffee, and my wife will walk into the room. Your query tents and I haven't said a word to her and we haven't been in the same room for more than ten seconds, and she knows in the I'm coming off apple. Where were that?

I use pay a lot of attention to this company easier light charging I mouse right now, it's upside down and I'm sure, my senses. He started doing these tweets, what apple on free speech in the store and the three percent, and they want to come out, storming and basically being lost, Yes, sir Stuart thirty percent like our way or the highway, we just beat epic screw you and then the weird g, o p, tweets, started and ted cruz lit up and rhonda Santos lit up and MIKE Lee who co sponsored the antitrust bills lit up. Tucker carlson did a segment and the culture are started out in a kind of a great piece of this apple liked you on drove apple into the most unpredictable idea. Why equally incoherent. Part of America, which is the geo cultural and they realize o this somehow. This is going to end with a bill.

That allows sideloading on the apps and they decided that instead of going on, offense temple would be a politician and he would charm you on. walker in a circle around the campus and get an employee Surely that is this! The flow That decision that occur, because, unlike epic in fortnight, when they want fully on offense- they see this other thing. This other thing that you on has a handle into, which is just the wildness of the culture war. for I did not get. It took our frozen signal about free speech, no no I mean what did Ronda santa say. It was basically like if twitter is banned by apple, you know of we need to regulate apple, and that was the here is a congress should respond to this odd demonstration, monopoly power and its first of all its not that I have not sympathetic to the very we ve had like David, sweeney and Amy closure. I have been on the show talking about their antitrust bills. Yeah I get it, but

that the solution is a market competition. If not, we should punish apple because they pissed off Ilan in your eye. I just think that level of unhinged redness actually made apple change. It's tactic away from what they did with epic, which was we'll see you in court like what's going to happen, though, because we also have ireland sing you suck to twitter and, as it seems, ready to like fine it into oblivion. So we have what we have. What we saw wait were organisms, I think he was saying, let's put about what we should talk for the rest of twitter and and to put a bow on this. You know with house the term as iran tweets after the meteor and goes look. We resolve this. Misunderstanding was the word to use where, like two days before they even a day before he was doing it, take another people being like apple haste. speech in america need to attempt for thirty minutes and is

It was a misunderstanding. Ten was clear that apple never considered, banning us everything's chill, and then he follows tim cook on What are the saying is going to get a worthy to its dr rath says like if you will you're gonna come at the king, you best not miss. I mean that was the lesson I think for you on an apple this, yet way, whose a king, in this scenario, dunkirk, it's him. Is it because absolutely no is and through a giant tantrum and got what he get four years, which was a meeting with him cook. That's not it. The richest man in the world. He really wants a meeting with TIM cook. You can get a meeting which also, like TIM cook, didn't come to twitter apple. You know like, like monitoring the apple. Is not go meet me yeah. he's not wandering the desolate empty hall. So too, he's like we're not even getting in the building where, in a locker and out of the kitchen sink sitting over there,

It's I would mean we have no idea what was saddens conversation but Microsoft has tried for years to get out of the thirty percent cut myself to strive for to evade actual rules, run game streaming and give apple, and I can't get there, and so I think you'd there's no way that you got anything out of the steel and I have no idea what TIM traded ahead to make him tweet what he tweeted right there there has to be. They are both savvy business. People are not bad at this. They had to have come. He didn't just tell him he likes smelled good. And he was like a I forgive you like he was they exchange something. We have no idea what that exchange their most law. Local explanation was apple, is threatening to keep twitters update in purgatory because of concerns about content. Moderation, ilan assured him that he had a handle on it, which ah debatable, but

obviously a short term, and they left the meeting ten going. Ok, we won't. We will keep you in purgatory. That's the most likely explanation of what happened. I actually think thirty percent was maybe not raised at all. I would be shocked if it actually was gazette. That's not. Non negotiable, tat right. That's my levels, negotiable, depending on who you are, less negotiable. If you get a bunch of right wing members of congress to sign it's right there in its it was on an unlikely outcome. Yap met right like that's it. I think apple recognise that and that's where they played it this way and so little

if they have been playing at apple's position. This whole time has been clear since the epic trial yeah, you can do sideloading on our store, yeah you can, whatever the software forced to in south korea and other countries, developer soft, to pass the money right. It's not just you can get around us it's. What we actually care about is the money and the decision, at least in this country. The judge basically said: yeah apple is entitled to being paid for it's intellectual property and effort I think ios to you. If the bills pass apple is they've, been pretty clear and consistent this whole time and they have rolled out this system in other countries that require other kinds of in app purchasing systems to be present on ios. She still wants a cut, they don't really care yeah, you might not use your credit card processor, but apple is getting it's it's money and I think that's actually the non negotiable part, whether it's in app purchases or whatever else, and I think you'll. Is a smart betting. We can agree on that, but coming late to the game in pointing

right. It tim cooks, services, revenue, I'm I mean like what, if less is fish my heart? does it as the reality of life, the sun will rise and apple get its money exam. Alright, let's target twitter itself here reporting on it, yeah survive in there I think Monday was like the perfect blake just microcosm of life inside so ilan sends this email at like three m. As he's prone to do saying, we're You cut her views again, bringing lines of code, which any engineer will tell you is an absurd exercise. An reminded again that he expects managers to be coating as well. Engineering managers think has direct quote, was being able to do so is like a cavalry captain. You can't write a horse seem like, and you know how, like anything, works, outside of lake. The eland must crafted world citizen

Christie's the richest man in the world kranz. He knows all. He knows. He respects capitalism in america and in free speech. Order. So anyway, he sends his email everyone's, like frantically trying to forget. what this means. Does this mean more people are about to get fired the code you doesn't happen. So everyone shows up to twitter, san francisco offices and there's a dialogue review Monday evening. It don't he's not no one can find on there's no reviews that happen. The fire alarm does get pulled and a bunch of engineers end up spending about an hour standing outside of twitter's office as they figure out what goes on with the fire alarm, so that was like just Monday progressive progressively fire alarm got pulled. Yes, that's really good! So that's that's, it's like and and then you have this remarkable thing where you have, and I think kranz you are wanting to mention this earlier twitter's vp of public powers. See who's base in ireland sued company to keep them from firing her over them?

hard coral ultimatum that she didn't say check the yes to from a couple weeks ago, as she one like this is First example of the appeal that I've ever seen suing to stay employed have haven't we heard of this, as this is a very common in like europe, because they- much stronger labour laws there. So big we ve, seen this repeatedly with twitter in europe, is that he has no grasp of labour Are there any doesn't understand that link? Absolutely just what I say. What I'm saying a high ranking executive suing, a company to stay employed right again, I think this is like a very european america. We solve our problems with cash yeah, that's true right, so you're you're mad at your company in america. You see them you're. Like pay me, however much money, I would have made the next year of employment and then I'm done with you other countries, other legal systems, each other remedies no you're dyer me back here yeah, even back to you. I still watch here. So it's just it's just I I think the

and I'm like she was. She was weekly, like in ploy still under european law that, like had been locked out of our systems and she's she's a like telling your thumbs if he be a public policy being like and now he's apparently back in the slack. It's like maize, germany, there's an is either germany or france. There's a number of twitter engineers who are also suing because they also got fired. You can't fire them. I just do that to give like a ton of notice and pay them out and all of this and they're like no, you you broke the we're we're, not america yeah, so Is it but he's also, certainly like a the labour law there, but didn't the EU commissioner this week? One of the EU commissioners say we're. Gonna lake was a dvd, Have the data controllers that think them in the use right, regulated environment, especially as it pertains to privacy issues and there like who are the people, are gone so get on game. He taught misery

so this from the irish times Mister Breton told MR must he must adhere to a checklist of rules. In ditching an arbitrary approach to reinstating band users, pursuing information, does aggressively in agreeing to an extensive, independent audit of the platform by next year. None of that So I mean you say that the EU has a pretty good record of lake body in tech. Companies We share with our islands, which I mean, and I find that a company that needs to india has no money yeah. I know that's it is said, rose dark horse in this yes race for fur on. He keeps ignoring the world, whether the aft he see decides fines any evidence that they have actually violated there complies for it, but you know requirements in the EU. If you either one of those those regulators decides to act on twitter that could legitimately put a business right and send cities like I'm gonna pick a fight with TIM.

what he did where a suit for the meeting with the EU. So he has taken that seriously. Ill is not bad at getting government money down, get in fact, it might be The greatest skill set is tesla's. The way tussle makes me his Let me finally and grants in space x is a government contractor, so it's. I don't think that I think we might. I might be saying that technology is an underwritten political operator of its main thing. He does true. You ought as a pretty good political operator tube the differences he wants businesses. Are monopolies like where you may go nasa? the sls us not doing it for like yeah one choice. Where are you going get like for workers, by your carbon credits from tesla so there's just like an element in if you're, like a state governor. Anyone approve want your dream, but you do so. You have a super charger put in

like. I just want to think there's a there's, a difference in complexity that both of them face, and I think fundamentally, the cu stuff he's he's about to learn what it takes to run a business. Sarah and there's a reason. And then a lot of these like when we talk about regulation. This country, like the vcs, jump out of the woodwork to be like there's a reason: there's no innovative companies in europe, which is not true, but that's. The argument is the rail it. The regulatory environment is so insane that you can't do it and you on is trying to run this thing like a scrappy startup, but it is actually like a world historically important communications platform. and the europeans are the care about. Oh yeah. What else is going on inside a twitter alex's? It is its, hold down. I would say become very silos. So, like an inch, twitter. You used to be able to browse any slack channel, see basically what any team is working on that is stopped, so channels have all been set. Private he's doing these like inserting different language and different emails to try to find leakers and edicts

so being mysteriously passed down from tesla people inside the country about what he long once the internal rectory is not online. So there's! No. Nobody really has any understanding of like who reports to our. How are it's been communicated like in a team silo environment, but not broadly and you'll. He said that, like this transitional period, he may dell alba things wrong, but you know the idea is that in the near future, all this will become more visible, it'll make more sense in an ill, stepped back and so appoint a sea. Oh, I guess which you know I can't wait to see that is, but yeah would say right now. It's still people just going if you, if you're, not working on an ilan project right which is like encrypting dams competing with you tube adding video to twitter and doing motivation blew the revamp of blue and verification. If you working on something like that or cutting the kind of twiddle in your thumbs. and try to understand who your manager may or may not be tomorrow,

There is a lot of noise in any way. Five of lay offs that twitter wooden survive, the world cup dangerous, are breaking that's right happening yeah, I'm glad you brought this up because, like literally as we were talking, I got another notification from from a mosque boy. Like referencing one of my tweets, where I said you know, twitter employees were telling me they expect decide to start breaking in everyone's donkey. And I still waiting on this- I yadda yadda I'd also like if you're, a mosque boy you're. Listen to this, like your experience with twitter, is not indicative of everyone else's experience with twitter so like just because you're experiencing something breaking doesn't mean stuff is breaking we seen like my timelines gone bonkers a couple times yet. Are you guys we're like lines out of the kitchen? Still work? Unification had been breaking. There was a moment where sms verification wasn't working, there's no little glitches all over, and I do think. We as the media. They did. The week of the first purge, were half of the employees were fired? We did maybe

We buy a little bit into the hysteria of like cause. We all have this weird relationship with twitter to where we're all just like I'll happens that I was part of a twitter space that went on for hours where it was like What is twitter meant to you? What's gonna mean when it's gone, yadda yadda and I can understand people trying to latch onto that and say the media like once this thing to fail and once a to fail, and I would just like I can we speak for how I report, but I think for all the people who reporting on like what's happening inside twitters cases only etc, where sri lanka. Employees are telling us and There were a lot of current and former twitter employees with direct knowledge. Who we're very, very concerned based on the cuts, must made that it would lead to a catastrophic outage very quickly. That's like a reporter saying: oh I'm like a pontificating or dislike assuming this is gonna happen. This is I'm just like I'm saying that employees are telling me so

you can trust error. You cannot that's fine, like you, dont have to whatever media's fake fight. That's was the real concern and it's actually amazing that hasn't happened. I think it's a testament to the people who already were maintaining twitter fail safe. There were in place when you have a seat read this large and you have any level of competency and how its run, which your twitter it and have as much competency as it should have, but it did have a lot. There are a lot of safe and just a ways that you know that service, can can stay operational even on you know, skeleton crew, but Said there are glitches- and this isn't gonna mean that, like twitter won't break at some point, it very very well musk is like been pretty open about that, so I swear it, dress that cause like I'm still getting dear is about the world cup just start right like we're not even to, though the ones where people like line up and packing the bars

I mean I guess some of them are we've seen some of that, but like we're, we're just in the beginnings of the real crunch period for the world cup traffic for them may it may go off great and there will be great of twitter doesn't break. I wanted to break by theirs, you know there's a lot of institutional knowledge that gone like we were just talking about with the app store stuff. You know, there's a lot of people that, like there was a moment where the wifi went out. You see reykjavik compliance like there was a but where you and was in the new york office in the wifi, went out because, like the server room where the life I was over heated and no one knew how to get in there and fixed because they are so he's, gonna be stuff like that. Just happens, and that's it's what you on board and that's what he then yeah I didn't. It will break right away that in that particular day was bonkers software like any? We all experience offer that just sort of potter's along there, definitely hysteria. There was a history

I think our knowledge ing it at the time. I think everybody was even being like hysterical that I don't know what's happening but like so I think people were pretty candid about it and it is just part of that conversation where, where there's a both sides, ism to this whole thing, everybody has to have like a team that beat team, elon or team twitter or something oh team twitter? You doubt? What so you don't use tweeting the numbers are practically engaged. Time is up. Users have gone up using the metric that he said restored with the very confused I have experienced the flip and I know a lot of people who are kind of on the flip side of things where I took off my phone yeah, because my experts twitter in additions, it just stuff breaking way. when my notifications break they break in a most deeply hilarious way. They just recommend tweets from you on this. Like that. That's and I don't follow you on it. Just like here's another tweet, you might like insight. This wrong that only

this this is? Why taken off my phone, but I know a lot of people in the past week or so who are like twitter? experience or twitter is becoming more negative, because He hasn't got everybody back on yet, but the people who remain are like more inclined to yell at one another and are more inclined to test the limits of what is and is an alert I anymore, and it's just noisier and more people are on twitter. Talking about twitter pushes just the worst in that to me is the real danger, yeah yeah right. Is it the people you need to make it vibrant, we'll get driven off or they'll quit their funds? Who you or I think maybe what might be the healthiest outcome will all just stop being a day did the social media feeds in this specific way. Unlike some elsewhere will emerge, which is really unusual. Please, We have a number of times that kind of shift has even been possible over the last decade or so it's maybe three like it

ass, three m thing: it's like. Friendster myspace! He stood so Facebook any emergence of twitter and maybe most recently the emergence of Tik tok right and, like I said three and I for answer to myspace, myspace too That's just as one that'll happen is like twenty four I think snaps and there are others there, some other shirts and thereby of ships. That rightly, I think one of the earliest. I wasn't even friend service, its life journal live was a social media platform. It was really big disputes, a different kind of social media plus and then everybody was like a russia's body. We gonna kill, it would only this place. We can have the russians own, as this was what she doesn't nine or something and it didn't dies rapidly. I think that, like, I would honestly say, live journalists the most somewhere. Analogy to this were suddenly got a new owner. Everybody senator really question what they were doing on the service, why they were doing

and whether they were like being good people by using the service on by people who are potentially not good and might not user data. Equally and then what happened was it's a long, slow death? There were a ton of clowns. Everybody said dream with this. Is the new future train with new means? people use it and then people migrated a tumbler, but it took what three or four or five years for that to happen. It just happens like this long, slow thing without the same thing with tumblr, and we ve seen this happen with these smaller social media play forbes, not just the big ones and in a smaller platforms where you do see these big changes that upset that the majority of the users, it's not a big sudden shift, because people don't opera, That way, like tumblr died in a said, pillow forts, a new thing and the same thing that's happening now with high social, as happened with pillow fork where couldn't handle.

What are you even talk to your house is making of service names and saying we can still exists, cock, a doctor, the same thing that happened. They just said wherever Again, we want to go to this. It broke it and slowly coming back but lake, we see a time time again, with a smaller platforms, that it is in a sudden migration. It is always a very slow, the people were experiment in. I notice that tat bots the maker of one of the best original toward her clients tree by their building a macedon quiet. Now I shall just got on the beta. Thank you Paul, unlike There is interesting activity happening on sit on, I don't they macedonia necessarily tit like take the world by storm. I think people don't want to organise an understand. Servers like that's just an inherent human nature thing to like not give a shit about servers, yeah and I mastodons trying there will be other stuff, but I think like

twitter is really ilan stood to mess up like either will get not of existence or he will. not have any one left, who can actually make it better and he's not able higher for some reason, which I think actually well gash. Sudan random people. Emailing me being like. Do you know how I can apply to work at twitter while young people engineers you print out the last fifty pages is hold him up above your head, like scientists shown to one of his show intel tell events like the league event this week, where Almost nothing happened, he showed a bunch of old videos and then he was like. Maybe I'll, stick a chip in my head one year and you could watch him. I was watching a hold on. Let's take a break out of that seamlessly transition from monkeys wirelessly, charging, my brains to sam

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but entirely smooth and squishy a powerfully perfect combo sweethearts dare to combine we're back with chocolate nearly briefly, as we saw musk all the time it had. The event announced some things, but the most improbable. Is we will start implanting braid implants and people in six months heap we're regionally promising twenty twenty two do the brain and plants, so they are like their act like I think when he eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty ruby implanting these in humans in twenty came in and then actually me twenty twenty two and in December What november thirtieth twenty did you they're, like nuts, its six months six months from now, surely the time for the neural link. Conversation was spent on like saying, you really don't do the monkeys. We're being tested on were totally fine because neuro link has-

getting a lot of flak for the fact that it does a lot of animal testing and is like sometimes the monkeys die dory about. Britain put chips in people's brains of monkeys have died. What reddish reported to usa too? There are many, also, you can control the mouse with your brain slower than you could with and I'm gonna tell you- is the single most important part of this entire demo, which was all recruiting their very open about it tomorrow, go work at near like you're gonna, be that cutting edges monkeys typing with their brains. They I got deepened chargers it's a problem. We need it. It needs to be convenient, eastover a lot of power and go fast. We also can't heat your brain more than two degrees, her acutely atmospheric. That's like this is wrong. I wish more teddy companies where there's a raw stating the problem, thermals are a huge issue and a lot of technology, and when you put it,

and the brain, and you hit the brain. You gotta be careful there like so here's our solution, and they show this leg. You gotta watch this video. This was this was the president is was not elon. It was like a neural link. Engineering matter. this is his life. He was dead serious about this like it. charge- you have been more than thirty minutes a battery s last all day, and why can't I can't boil here who fourteen years all very challenging problem music. So here's what you done, there's a lever that- delivers banana smoothie and the monkeys have learned to charge there and brains by standing under this. Whilst sure, and I who hears spunky and ngos, issues like drinking Smoothly- and here is a graph and the grass was obvious- I see- is charging guachemines like these rules like I honestly wish more apple events featured this thanks. This issue is drinkin, smoothie is wirelessly. Charging samsung used to be close to this they've really toned it down

was a time when any samsung event would veer right into also, in addition to sure is dryers nuclear submarines. A fleet of charging monkeys. It was always right. There they'll, smooth they've, really turned it down since I am just saying this was like that part of this event. The whole time as like all events should be like this yeah just do we think that do we think the monkeys could learn a code, and then they could be a new address. This he addressed He was like the monkeys because the he's the demo where the monkeys drink in the smithy. It's moving the mouse and typing, and I just want you to understand their typing gibberish weed. plan to one day, maybe make them type but will be like here. Thank you Definitely it, but it was very clearly a joke, sadly get pissed. When the code review cancelled, lose their fort. Forked filed it. Imagery here of illegal things with monkeys.

If there's a success, that's so new! I knew I you you were in the common sense, whereas I was like there's gotta be monkeys into the house, but you have topical animals bahamas. Yes, a meal- I you weren't beautiful new york city this week to watch Andrews Sorkin of the new york times, do his annual deal but conference, and he had none other than the illustrious sam bateman free. There are virtually. He was the closer, a pretty room. Complainer interview. We watched her, you were in the room. Can you just describe what it was like being in the room, for this truly bizarre moment, and we should note that, like people were mad, and was even doing this interview right because sb office We can also hear like probably occur oh yeah, the allegedly and yes, there is like a debate about whether this interview should even happen, and then it does happen, and what was I like, it was strange candidly admit that I feel is: so smugness about all of crypto because we

then so sceptical of it this whole time- and so the way we have covered it. I think, is a little more detached than people want us to be. We're just thought is bad and I recognise the people had their lives destroyed and I am mad for those people- and their behalf? And that's actually how Andrew opened the interview with sam? He was like here's some letters I got from people whose lives have been destroyed. His life savings were taken away, but just from diverges a consumer site, it's on a financial services site, it's on a business site where consumer technology site and so we discovered a server remove like it's a caper to us. I think was interesting to go into that audience in that, look audience. It's it's a code conference seconds, the closest parallel to Me- bill ackman is in the room. Asking investors are in their major businessmen, earn their major politicians around they're, pretty cool to be in that room like those neat for most of the day, what you know large theatre with a lot of important people. There's just like

a layer of background noise in the room, the matter who's being interviewed, reed Hastings is on stage I wanted. You're networks, there is surely a layer of background of its people are getting up by, like I got up and went on the phone call, people typing, there's some like murmurs. reactions to the inner. U s very polite and respectful and people are focused version this a layer of background activity happening in the room right, yeah, guys, big fear, yet it sam anxious, pinned drops like no one's. Even like no one knows what to do in its remote sam can't perceive a room like this is the here's the hard limit of a zoom conversation right like he's looking into his webcam, and he can the andrew Sorkin any improbably here, the room in certain is on stage, and I was sitting up. Sites. I could see what sort and was looking at you can have a monitor the he could, nazi, sam SAM was behind him

so you, just looking into the camera, to create the illusion of That is exactly what I am doing right now, I'm staring down the barrel, the camera lands, Look I'm looking to Alex's that, but I'm ok, my camera lines, and I was like oh Andrew certain surgeon- is a CNBC anchor where he is falling back on his table news training to create intimacy. even though he is dead, aware of what is happening in this room Yes, there's what happened and we share the interview sam and the scandalous, and I just from creation of a cultural moment using technology standpoint I was just like blown away. But I have never experienced anything like that. I've into a million these conferences we ve done a million interviews. I host an interview show remotely but mismatch between here's, this room, full of bankers and executives and politicians? Just

at the end, the edge of their seat, all kind of like you should shut up The amazing thing he's just sort video chatting times organs we can ask at one point like what are your lawyer advising you? That was the big question we all have, let's just like the most incredible mumbled. Aside of all time, I don't know what you're saying you like: they are not Is there were times where SAM would look off to the side of the camera, and you know liz, and I and others were in slack and we're all talking and we're like man? Is he looking at his talking points? Is he looking at a lawyer who's going now like what is what I see this guy said was just doing there's a thing. I do it alive. A lot of people do where he sometimes will like look away you're talking in trying to get over whatever conversation, Those who have, I think, that's just the tipp of his that he has yeah. I know it is very strange me he'd,

from what I can tell he be continues to just admit to frauds, but he won't stop admit two for a huge problem. He waste, he didn't intend to do fraud. I believe, and he apologized for everyone is now losing their money. He's lying. to do right by my customers and is like well. You know it doesn't matter. Like this weird exercise of like I don't know how the thing I made works. It is with us like the common refrain. He would go to lose like it was accused point to some boogeyman that wasn't him, they couldn't name cause he's. Obviously the culprit right, and so what are you going to do if your also likes enough of a psychopath to put yourself in a public interview in this moment, you're going to just like invent something to blame and that you can't describe I mean? Is that a fair read? I don't? I dunno how else to describe how he cancelled it. I started with lose a bunch about this yesterday I'm trying to figure out. Why is saying coming and talking? Everybody repeated

way before we go any further with this, which is back up a little bit peace. Can you tell us, just the elevator version of what's going on with fcx sure this is probably important so ass. He acts basically started as this hedge fund called alameda research. They did a very sick thing and made a lot of money doing it where they basically traded the difference between the price of crypto in one country versus the next. I believe it was maybe Japan and the u s for awhile sand egmont young dude with seems like other young people, some of which he had extra you no kind of relationships with are all running this thing? It's like a classic like finally, bro like pounding red balls like at your doubts about a thing and after its created as our meat taking off, and you ask it all the time intricacies. What essentially, how it all came down as there is an obvious, be no massive collapse in the price of crypto currency and assessed

a run on the bank happen unless he acts in the problem. Was that as yet didn't actually have the money that its depositors that its customers put with them because alameda research took that money to back the bats. That law all of its money on as a hedge fund, bearing on certain crypto assets that plummeted and so sand, did that You know one of the worst things you could possibly do and financing, What is actually legal if you're like a fully regulated financial institution which have tax was not was basing the bahamas. All this is very that now, because it is very clear he was tried to skirt regulation. He doesn't actually care about regulation, even though he was saying he was when he cared about the most and yet the ex ended up not having the money to be able to give people there there deposits and so the whole thing can crashing down ten plus and this was a guy who was the largest or one of the largest donors. In the mid terms, sides it turned out to both sides. He says like you earlier

is the youngest billionaire of his stature is the richest you know, billion are under threat. for a minute on paper and now he says, he's got he's broken, but we don't actually know that. There's been a lot of reporting that money was taken out and it's unclear a lot of homes bought that sort of thing. So that's like the It's at the elevator story of yeah and liz has been doing great work covering fdx on the site just for our purposes again art a it's. A financial story the end of the day, it say you started an unregulated bank and did the shadiest things at an unregulated bank. Do any amount of technology involved? Yes, crypto some interesting tech baked into it, but like at the end of it, It's it's like a bank story, so yes weaving korea, but I'm watching this interview and were ass. really struck. Me is crypto crib in general. I don't you remember. What I think of his crypto summer was hailed like the next gigantic turn for the tech industry, then we'd.

To hear about web three interminable ie and just for an endless amount of crypto stuff occurred and washing series. I noticed this is the moment where it's dead right, where he you. He's hush the times. A show us a new york. Mag are such reputation I'm good morning, america this morning in he's like, need, I always my customers to explain what happened to you, mainly prosecutor in every state in the country is like an you should keep talking because everything you say is admissible in any discrepancy in what you say, we're going to hold up in front of a jury and used to put you in jail and it just feels like maybe the entire industry is tainted in iraq- workable way, because of all of this now right. I mean, if you remember the super bowl with talk like that, all the crypto ads they tumblr. He was a hefty spokesmen. He made an ad with gazelle and the entire I was basically like you should be.

in her ponzi scheme. There is no mention of utility, it was just him being like. Are you in over and over again to his famous friends? Well- our that determine gazelle. You know what it's teresa hasn't a good year, not here Other bestia autonomous live but fundamentally idea these do you think. That's that Is that this moment for europe, has just come to an end and the next You mean there maybe next moment there has been some. Resting technology developed the I've heard more from vindicated sceptics. Then I've heard from people who are like will come back. to a friend who was like an exactly at one of these big crypto companies and he got laid off because they there is running money, because so many of these companies were, like britain gonna a bunch of investment that and see what happens, and it's like wait this you just giant ponzi schemes. Eventually your money goes somewhere.

Never comes back and, as it is crypto kind of done with the collapse of empty acts and he's like, I don't see how it can recover yeah he's. I just do not see how it happens after this, and I think even people in the crypto community always kind of new that a big chunk of this is upon the scheme because his money is make money in it. Doesnt proved there's no like there's no gold standard, there's, no there's nothing. At the other end, single small mail has frequently to use, advocate the gold standard of her chest. Yes, I did but have standard or money. You know, there's no is between this money and the goal that ash and I are currently mining on world of warcraft as from pretend to be little dragons late. What's the difference both of them can theoretically be used to buy

aids and, as, moreover, one of you can actually use for something and one of warcraft one? I can go and buy mats to me, my dragon stronger, the other one. I can hopefully get some cash for if I traded in kyoto and link that I think that all kind of were aware that the bottom could drop out of this at any time. If anyone, once to run on the bank. I totally unregulated bank will be destroyed. and so like yeah. I think it's done. I I think I don't think it's done. I think what we saw in this last wave was a lot of key infrastructure. Tat was built like layers of block chains were built with no use cases on top of them. So was a policy scheme because once you by a bunch of whatever. What are you gonna do with it right, except you know certain illness of things that I you. I have no idea with so so if you, if that's the only use case, it is a policy scheme, and so I

actually seeing interesting start ups, there's a lot of easy money deployed into crypto They start ups thereafter, trying to build use cases, and I I think you know we saw some of that in game. It really go anywhere. The resumes a kind of a brief moment, but where worthy diseases you're. Seeing that like could goes where can I watch gaming and it would be payment, We will see some of the large social apps you on talked. I know it's like you know back her all the back around that like twitter, wide crypto telegram is adding crypto, I think as apps they are already doing enough tease on polygon. I think they will probably have some kind of crypto payment feature within NATO. Years. There there. payments layer where it makes sense to a limit A middle man ass you can and like. If you use one of these tokens that actually can move quickly and achieve That actually is performative like it doesn't make sense.

The payment mechanism? You just have to have the network of facts for that and no one's done that yet how does it make sense to go in and fast go find a crypto than I good about find an app that I want to use to invest in it in vast may, make my cache my mailbox. Tender that is regulated via like. How is that faster and easier than apple pay or my annex, it's not like that you're you're, describing, as the retail covered said, stems bubble mania that we had. There was like the perfect cocktail of people wanting to speculating cryptographic at a bus companies being opportunistic about be no pronouncing lake. Now that crypt has been pre poisoned and public view, right, like most people, definitely on a retail level yeah. How does it go? How does it come back from that like on the retail level? How am I going to get my best friend who has no idea what a crypto?

while it is to go in use, there has to move out of speculation, has to move out of like you're buying this thing because it may go up. One day has to be like. Oh, I actually need this too, like send someone money on twitter or on television. This is the thing that truly struck me about watching sam in person to your work and watching the other entities. There are two stories integra now right. There's you on twitter theirs of tax, and we are cover it. We might be over covering you often twitter and we are covering. To a certain degree of taxing crypto because there's attack element to it. But when you peel back the layers you have just said, finance expert to really understand what happened. I'd have a tx to really catch him in the in the the fraud that everyone alleges that he's committing was you probably did there? I cannot find the part where it's like and here's the thing they did technically, that created the fraud. It's all just the shell game of an unregulated bank, and then people saying I want my money in the bank saying

Sorry, we spent it on my girlfriend's hedge fund, which is an incredible outcome. By the way it was just it's a wonderful life just that whole scene, but this is the tack you ready for the tech element of it yeah. It happened online. We used to a long time ago at the beginning of the verge, when we like that story, so to decide whether we're going to write about them. We had to draw a line. It's like. We can't do this just because someone tweeted about it I like that, that's not that doesn't make it the tech story, that's just something how that has changed yeah. Now, it's like all day every day as people are tweeting, we react to it. We should actually at this part cause. I did get a bunch of questions and I started we were talking about. Average, has a little bit the notion that, just by interviewing sandbank and freed you're perpetuating this fraud I I like fundamentally, our job is to talk to people, so it seems- and I understand that you don't want a platform like there's people, you don't want a platform, but at this moment it's like well he's the bad guy, but he's the villa like you, you want to know if you can get them,

want to admit the villainy. I began speaking is actually like a public service in its way like it. If you are a good interview, I would guess I find it bizarre. I mean, I guess I can understand if you don't work in the media, thinking that the media is like aiding and abetting him if they're giving him a platform, but I mean why? Why would you not because you think that he doesn't deserve the attention like that or that the I think it's really down to like how that platform. Please at platform I used to write like if, if he got up, there was who is really soft interviewer? Who is just like tat, ok now, what's your day like now that you think creating a kind of any one, I long as serious as like what plastics is that you have looming over your head for this entire. I haven't seen that I have seen a lot of credit like credulous.

and ass a thing is: that's why I think it's ok. I like, I think we ve gotten. We ve seen a lot of interviews with bad actors like this in the past where they go and they give their sob story and there's no push back. But Sorkin was like to his credit, pushing the really consistently at last throughout the usual watch. Actually, there is a very funny like very virgin moment in this interview is coming to the end and he asked the question and he is like say I'd- know: cfo no board of directors did it do you think that was a problem? and again served for bankers, people have invested knapsacks, who also have seen no accuracy, echo and the lack of a board of directors, giant wearing red flag, sweat of my anyway and samuel I think we had too many boards and the call drops in sir We one thinks that he did this on purpose refreshing. A yank, the plug you're, like his lawyers, are finally stormed into the room and like throwing the laptop out the window and I'm looking I don't like others see it. Oh god, oh can link scares. You stay

nothing yelling his camera? Just die, but all the time, as I have check the elgato just like. Oh, my god is you coming back. It has do that's you see clearly just timed cute he'll be back by this, can't shut up here and lo and behold he came back and I encourage everyone to just watch the last five minutes as in real terms the site. It's also it's it's all over takes up like this is this thing has been removed. we were. Secondly, mass was only ends by saying: are you lying wishes? I think and every decoder returned by so Are you lying will note, as as bf did not give a quick now wish is never a good sign that you're actually are I think that the awkward clapping at the end was like a little. I understand that's, like a conference thing that you always clap but like I was, funny to b c people like clapping as s behalf was like leave

but there's nothing for him, clap generally good interviewer there. I noted your answer city. This currency couldn't see is an extremely shorter than that. This all ends and is like, So ass thing you know, you're a symbol. Performers to close this rapid broadway wrap this, There is a very odd moment by very cereal Our eyes, I was a last interview today knows Latvia in there was out. I would just from what I gathered from various people, where there is a lot of scepticism that, as we have with show up, you can see book to this before. He looked all this before he said he was gonna. Do a bit you he's in the bahamas. You don't have to do it that poor events planner, who is working on this thing, and they're, like we're gonna this great triumphant final interview with the guy who did aft. He acts he's into all this altruism, is going to be so lovely and going to these dancers come out, and it's going to be this great moment then just going to do I get

the dancers like. What do I do? How do we have this? Now? There was no doubt to that decision usually watch just at least the last ten minutes, but just because ended in such a good job, and it was so weird, it's so weird, truly one of the shouldn't, we take a break backwards a tiny little gadget lightning around and look it up here forever right now someone's listening to songs, about parties, travel and get away without ever planning. for themselves. They need a change of two real visit. North carolina This episode is brought to you by lay's, lay's potato. chips are made from real potatoes from real farms and are closer than you might think, golden gross here on over one hundred farms across north America. So whenever you open up

bag of lays you can thank your farmers for making your stay golden moments possible ways, stay golden to learn more ado, wooden grows here doc on our back, we like a pallet closer here. We are talking about some gadgets and some buttons knobs in leaps and bounds. south korea for us. Alright, I'm not going to talk about it too much because David and I talked about it a whole bunch recently in recorded episode before the baby came, but As on kendall, scribe came out this week. I reviewed it. if you really really really really really want a candle that you can write on, go for it, otherwise don't to skip it. Alex in our like art. Edit meeting was like, I already camel the I am I'm on the show, if you, I know how you feel about yank yet,

I would describe the look on your face is pure devastation pretty inspiration summer, pretty big bummer yeah I've waited in vain. I think it's bad, because the us for a span. Amazon is gotten really complacent with its software design and is like yeah you'll enjoy slop keziah it because we sell the books and that's kind of the us for abusing it yeah, that's how they are now put, but it just like shoved a bunch of stuff in your face. It kept me like comics to buy on my lacking I e reader. It was just bad at recommending stuff in the the note taking elements of it were like pretty. unfulfilling and the fact that the largest cloud computing company in the world, Who has you emailing yourself in order to single document, That just see minutes

it still, not as bad as horizon workers. That's it's like it's like three below it, but industry It was just a big bummer and you have to say tune for an upcoming. episode of the Wednesday show where I talk all about it. It's really great, but also there was a new trackball mouse Davis, not here too, like stop all of my better, like Stop me, I shouldn't really a museum is run down and I'm like. Oh this Alex made this rundown of gadgets This is a real. You can tell the david wasn't here this week. It's it's! This is very exciting. because for years they trackball space was totally undeveloped, didn't have a lot to track balls they're, all wired? It was horrible, His space was undeveloped. Kensington said, is actually not crypto. You guys is that Flags of money is going in the track, while spain kensington enlarge attacker dislike, send us all your cash invested us, but

wireless who's, the of tractors has said, if kensington notice, the guy, who makes toby because they're actually lovely their their mission poleksic and I kind of want one. I gotta be honest: it looks sick yeah. They still do the thing where they make custom track ball balls with, like eight balls and things that struck ball, ball yeah. No. This is like a hot like when I was like eighth grade, like the customer, build your own trackball and then you, I know a guy who takes like steel, ball bearings and he polishes them, and then he like colors them with metals. I don't know I'm not a metallurgist, but he does stuff and so he's got his own little fans the customary track balls, but if you don't want to do that, you can get this new wireless version of the slim blade, which is a great name I'm reading the actual press release from this product. Can I just the headline in this press? Yes, kensington slim linwood pro takes track balls to the next level.

I believe that data like this got sent around there like. What's the headline of a press, release and they're like do it the next level. Next level no one's without alone it I I'm buying one of these wisely trackball encrypted that what're you gonna have the bluetooth encrypted. Then what else Allison Johnson reviewed. There are checked out the new gang key covert dock mini, which lets you like dock. A lot of your different game systems very easily and historically those docs for, like the switch are these giant Hmm devices like to big player things like the size of an iphone charger yeah, and so it's just cool. It's just nice. I was when the switch first came out. Everybody was complaining about how they couldn't just plug a usb c cord and- and you still can't you still can't just like plug a usb seated html cord into your tv and have it But let us him polygamous, but the sailors who isn't very at it, yeah just very

Secondly, the rare indeed government, like really went off yak, is think he's been they ve had a couple of these. This is this: is the newest one? It's only fifty dollars and like you can just check it in your purse, which is what she did you guys, I guess, would put it in your cargo pay sure you're fanny pack, I dont, let what would it? How did you know? That's what I wherever does it because I live, and so we have a foreigner just a flip, up shorts. That's actually went Alex's wearing right now. You just can't see it, but looking grey It was a probing that was a very major cycle, gonna, throw cargo pants and see how they react. That's right! Look I appreciate your pocket. I feel it will mean inside whether uv thing Maybe we should have shown come on a Wednesday show like really it into it. The short answer, I would say very annoyed with you see. There is a story that you feel security cameras just be accessed via the sea. The app see yeah even basic wages, just

Well, maybe I'll see insert streaming your camera sick, which not great it's a little. Harder than that there needs. have been an event to trigger the camera, our stuff, but you out there really are cameras are fully encrypted, unsafe and then encrypted We asked for a statement and he's like this is impossible and then he did it and it worked well. Ok, I have you fees? There are through home care, though, whether through my homeland and I dont use the you see up. Therefore, I'm safe right gazelles goes through long kept. Camera ghosts are apple home. Kid is in its real mad yeah djinns talk about there's a few times, but that are home kept camera situation is, is not one. She would recommend I gotta problem to sterling randomized, seeing you fee camera links, aerial you'll, be like hello,

you'll see Alex's cargo pants can be great, and so, even if even if you had your youth, you ran through homecare you're still susceptible to this. Unclear at this time. Homeland security are supposed to be encrypted right, but they ve elsie thing is just going to the camera right. So it's like maybe the connection from the camera to home kit to the clouds, your phone, all that is encrypted. But if you can just talk to the camera, Actually it I'll just give you a video file, woods thread kept. This fact that that I mean I don't we We got a bunch of cameras outside cameras inside are really weird and I have always picked the cameras, not because I like love the entire ring ethos? Unlike what? What? If we terrify old people and having cameras us either house? No, you like bats off. I love it. It's over there. it's also the right? I know that amazon will probably like last a long time in air,

and then are going to run, they're going to make their own software and run a ws directly in, like I mean not if the kindle's any indication all these other companies. That are sorry, that's true, but can you feel, see new kindle like there's a part of these other companies. Words like they're, just buying commodity bits and bob's off the shelf, we're in assembly when the products and like that's where the security consequences I'm from whereas at least for the ring and like I know there are coming It will like last one time because you see, I think you feel the appeal. Was it wasn't one of these other companies? It could use home care. You could just have it attached to your local storage and not have to have any a cloud at all which is as someone who loves a server, I'm a huge fan, but it just like you still have to They still securities have to think about these things. There's always a hack, this stuff and typing the address of the camera and of the elsie accessing unencrypted street. Perfect.

I started to talk to somebody just like talking to their plex over the internet forgot to send it to you, but now this is because of our relationship here. Tiktok is like we need to start, saw him plex content. I happy for you crazy. You have a mastodon, sir. Now I was looking into putting one on my sin. Ology in early may sally sure, that's what it is and then I like read about three lines into how to create a mastodon server, and that was the end. Hmm. So as a lover of servers, you can't even get behind mastodon, so I think massa is doomed. We can indeed start on that skimmed guys skirted disclose. Massa is going to be. going to happen and s eyes the incredible. Someone is gonna. Centralize, ambassador incentives and that's gonna, become the service and avoid fake, inter operability of others. consumers, but everyone can I join twitter, clone dot com. You know who it is which is mastered on and then it's going to be of the same

items, as you know who it is that it's awful circle, so this company has so small social media company we ve never talked about on the show before I definitely of never talked about, has announced that they're gonna support masted on instances, so you ll, be able to log in with your tumblr account on the mastodon region, can be tumblr disgust embracing guys, I'm sorry I feel like martin, like who's the ceo of automattic, which owns a wordpress and tumblr yeah. I think he senses blood in the water yeah. He had the feeling and he's like. Oh, I went through this app store review. Shit with with tumble her. You can report that for how much money did yahoo lose when they saw till I was able, and it was crazy. Is the earth like the full amount here so modest this is your who was to do their certain think they ve ever made money on anything, so our matic is going to make some money now. Ninety eight point, one percent loss,

yeah, they buy, they bought it for one point: one million dollars they sold it for twenty million available twenty million dollars- and I was a marathon mayor, specialised yeah. as I was when her strategy was by every apt to get talent in that order between zamboni drive. Neither of you know the story when we first started diverge. We share this horrible. personnel. Selective avenue was smiling I shall very fondly for it, but objectively it was like cracking you guys. You too Cast him like a closet wish for a minute they're using cause we're. Just like the side of the room and every office had to be quiet. Point like I said it was great getting back and watching that There's a company in excess, hot stamps, dot com. It is so kind as to how they did. I think the maid sam's like a bit, In one day they were gone and write. What happened sandra hub, amorous admired shown up and bought them right under our noses a part of you are you were next door, No one ever heard from sent back on yahoo or mercy

I every yeah, the last wine I'm just going to tease the fact that we're working on this review, the oceanic plus app for the apple watch. Ultra now out. our scooby divers in the audience, I'm only bring us up because what I heard about our apple watch. Also review video is an oscar. It's me, and this is the highest budgeting. We this ain't, a marvel movie at this point Four billion dollar avatar stand back very have lodged algeria's coming we're we're thrown out. Airplane, as you say, did we did skydiving for this one? there's only there's there. I know that there's an an attempt to crash car, whereas they actually happened now we're trying to die The second is that we are waiting for this, but that review is coming. The mossy we'll see feel, safe and I've button does everything that we ever hope to do. V and Becca have been working really hard on. It sounds like it's gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah I mean again. We are just

every time I hear about it. I'm like her that's a new problem. We have like. We need a two thousand and three ford fia that we can just destroys. Anyone have an oxygen tank. The company can sign this insurance waiver and I'm, like I dunno, we're gonna. Do that if we want to hire a new lawyer and lighted, it's just perfect, just colony on and have themselves. Sir, that's great last thing just is a very funny turbine canoe has re purpose, it's a lecture, pickup truck for army. I encourage you to look at the canoe pickup truck it's adorable door and then try to imagine this thing as a weapon of war is a very good, very good idea fully. That's it that's just like. We ve got grand plans and David's absence. He was on early kept this thing on the rails and, as you can tell me, even with two hours notice, it's already go inside of its between it and on regulations. You can tweeted

I met reckless Alex is alex. Each trans keith is alex. He heath very confusing issue. you like to use her or middle limbs, catch up we back on Wednesday. Actually this is the last up, so David did before took off david out. We'll talk fifteen years of the kindle Russell. Brandon and address he did a big project. Consumer imports, mapping out broadband, that's really cool, last thing: we're working on our end of year, rap ups com into our hotline, eighty six: urge eleven, eight six, six, eighty seven for three one one tell us you think you're winners and losers of twenty. It's you, here's a child show you can't pick a meadow. either. One that's rough yards stuff tv on to the people are gonna call alright, vocs poppy live oxy to hear the people speak

Call the number eight six six verge one, one, eight six, six, eight three, seven for three one: one winners and losers twice way to you, but you can't pick matter at stuff. I would ask for a while, but call the number of people s bs. Is truly highs and lows as it gets worse astronaut and that's a rap for verge cast this week. Thanks for listening, if you enjoy the show subscribe in the pot cast of your choice or tell a friend you can send this feedback at verge cast at the bird dot com is show is produced. By we in dreams and our senior audio director, andrew marina, this episode was edited. mixed by amanda rose. Smith are added real director is brick mentors and our executive producer is eleanor dominant. The cast as the production of the verge and box media podcast network, and that's it we'll see you next week.