This week on the verge, asked Wwdc apple's moving it's max to arm our friend Joanna stern, joins us to talk about the event. The big move make a little bit and when touchscreens are coming to mac, then Haim Gartenberg joins us to dive into all the rest of the news from apple's w a c that's coming up on the verge cast. Now we eat with our eyes and our mouths. Obviously but also our brains noon can hope. You learn more about that psychological component to healthy eating new music sites in personalization, so you can manager for the long term start taking control of your weight. management and joined the millions who have lost weight with new. You can sign up for your trial today at noon. Dot com, that's in o, o m dot com to sign up for your trial today, support, for this show comes from american express business if you are small. business owner. You want a partner with someone. They can help, make your data

day of awarding experience, that's where american express can come in american. Express business cards are built for your business with features in bed. it's like the ability to earn membership awards points on select carts, the power to pay for big business purchases and twenty four seven support. Business specialist built for your business, amex business terms, apply. Learn more at american, express dont, come slash, business cards. the hello and welcome to the chest. The flagship, podcast seamless platform transitions that, while I prepared the sweet eater is that is that a joke about food delivery? It is it's well yeah. I take it just an enormous cut from small businesses for every country, I'm here for me. I did a bonus here, also your friend

Hell of a great show. This we could stimulate. We see weak odyssey. Apple, had out of announcements on the future of its operating system, operating systems, there's twelve of them, fourteen that interlaced, with some drama on the app store which we can get into, but friend your and is image join us to industry co, founder of the verge actually now, personally, as economist the wall street journal she's going to join us for a bit and then haim gartenberg from our staff is going to join us and we're going to get deep into the news, the big news wishes. Apples, moved arm processors, its own silicon, for max before we do that every week I do like to just given up to on our coverage of the virus of variation justice initiatives that are going on the world. I say every week: those are the two biggest stories go in the virus, particularly, I think we're the dominant story of our lifetimes. Thus, we gotta keep tabs I don't want a short changed. The great work our team is doing so as not to cause himself out

has been fifteen weeks. This is important for a very specific reason. This week it isn't fifteen weeks since trump and doktor diver burke's held up a flow chart promising a website, Google is gonna make this all happened. You have ten weeks ago. This actually happened from said. Thank you, Google, Dozens of Google engineers are working on a website and held up a flow chart and you're to go to the website. Website will be a symptom checker than it would directly to the parking lot of it. A major retailers then all the ceo, the retailers, this actually happened within our memory fifteen weeks ago occurred, and then you would get a test. The drive through test, parking lot. You'd go home. You log on the website. You would you the results of the test fifty years later that website that national testing apparatus embodied in website built by google- does not exist, there is a website being built by division of alphabet called verily that they ve got you now.

Doesn't testing sites open across the country. Access testing in general is up, which is good. We also yet not good, have have more positive results this week in the? U s than others, anyway. Previous yeah, I would say that we have not done a good job in Portugal in south the poorest. major positive testing numbers are going up. The percentage of positive tests also skyrocketing and that's a wagging indicator at that. That's that data tells us what happened my two to three weeks ago so we were just seeing texas thinking about shutting down again new york new jersey and connecticut are gonna quarantine travellers coming from states with bring cases, that's all happening. Apples close yet more stores again apples, closing source but our website doesn't exist. I was fifteen weeks ago. That's a real thing that happened, and I did. I know you you and I were just like on the phone at eleven p m every night for weak, because what's up with this website,

People were very angry that we are pointing out that usually, when Google put some thousand engineers on projects, it was ten thousand whatever louis. Some of us are fifteen hundred. I think it was usually when they do that, and they have a big announcement. They make the announcement ran Google's approach to the presidency. It was just outright surprise in silence. For a while, and everyone told us we are overreacting, but I'm telling you fifty weeks later, the numbers are rising. That website is not doing the thing. It said it was, and the reason I said it's particular important this week is not just the the skyrocketing numbers we're seeing in other parts of the tree and but yesterday NBC news reported that the white house is going to pull back from federal support for testing and leave most of it to the states further pulling back, so they were all the way at working with google on a website. Fifteen weeks later, they are saying we're pulling back from this testing. I promise you that the country will not get the virus under control before a vaccine without an organized testing apparatus, testing and tracing we

just don't have one I'm just going to keep counting the weeks, because it's the it's the form of accountability that I can do. I mean I can't like walk up to Jared We live what's up with the flow trot. If I could remain six feet away and the author, a massive, would be you and me in I wouldn't be as effective as we just counting think ersatz that I've just got So I'm just going to cutting I'm sorry. If its tiresome there's a button in your pocket. Esquire eagerness scoop rabbi. It I'm definitely keep counting. Some other stories. I want justine on our team, she is our great sign supporter. She just profile. This high school in a town called Paradise, California, which is just deeply era. Last year, the students in the paris conference high school graduated into the camp fire wildfire. the town, was devastated by wildfires firesides graduate and that this year there graduating into the pandemic the talisman decimated by that it is an incredible story of how resilient the teenagers are. You read it

and has been devastated two years in a row, their schools? When disrupts the two years around they just sunlight, most resilient, we're gonna get through it aggravates people. So it's very touching. In that sense, but it is also a story about how the pin make any environmental factors that causal out fires are interacting with his commission. it's really I opening she did a great job is our first feature for sites on cod. Amelia said that we have some news on new york, new jersey and connecticut. That's on the site. You can get some details on at the E. U is plenty, the band! U s! Travellers indefinitely, because zverkov in nineteen response, that's on the site, you can rewrite lastly, the other big story and a country is about, rachel justice, it's about the protests its, but how can it solves? greece is a minute country. We have a lot of stress what that case, yet a scoop over the weekend, but snapshots like disastrous june teeth, filter, there's a letter you can read it. I want to focus on something else that we

wishes are illustrator alex castra, whose amazing just wrote? Pray for us last weekend called the human power of art. It just a lot of even thought of before things to look at made by black artists and his experiences as as a black person. Looking at those things understand these harder community theirs, I just like there's another side to this. That I wanted to call out now. Just did an amazing job with a piece. I wanted to call it at that on that piece in particular like if you catch. of doom scrolling, which is my favorite new order. One do you know why I just like just going through twitters, we are looking for more bad news. Even don't know that's what you're doing stop and go look at his pipe instead of just scrolling through it like stop on something that you see, that interests you and then sit with it. Watch the video look at the art. Whatever it might be, is it is actually a much nicer way to use your father, your computer, then just seeing what the latest bullshit out of congresses. Yes,

That said, we will not do to ours abortion out of congress. That's for next week now. in all seriousness, ousted, a great job with a piece I'm gonna call it out specifically so check that out. Okay, that's the of the big stories like I said. Those are the two biggest stories in the world. I don't want to take our eyes off of it. Our team is doing just incredible job covering the stories it's our priority is is really those those stories, but at the same time apple had a gigantic event. We have talk about it so that further do what's branch of industry during Joanna stern, you are, I think, most famously a co founder of verge most famously Second, most famously you. Where are the world's premier netbook review? That's true, I think most famously you were the network diva laptop magazine That's a real title that you held then diverge verge, a man, personal technology colonists who also during a welcome it, is a pleasure to be here it outside again,

what with that intro. Where else could I possibly there? with massive news from apple about arm in That's like the thing I want talk to you about We all have been delayed dozen, w. Nobody sees now dozens of events what was your sense of this one? I missed you yeah, I knew to data, I do miss or two, but he's usually really running around, like his head, like complete, cut off and Nila is just chilling in the class. Just talking to everybody, that's very accurate or my job is to schmooze are a little planning doc. It's like dieter fifteen hands on neely smooth is over there that I will say I absolutely miss that sense of community. I get mean it sought anyone's faults, roads the way they had to do it, but I think,

really change the nature of the event. What do you think of the pre recorded tv show keynote? How I love to that part you dead. I love that part fur. I think there are two reasons why been a really long time. Since I sat in my home and watched one of these, the crazy high pressure situation around getting into the theater and getting all your equipment say and all of those things which really I I just really love about the job and I think, but also like, theory? Instead it now for a decade of doing it, it's sort of second nature, but you still get nervous and free doubt about We have all my equipment and I to be able to do this, not having that, though, and just sitting right here in my elastic pants with my right here with ice coffee, and why was pretty nice year, No just that atmosphere like I miss the antimatter. It's a double edged sword. I missed it, but also I really didn't miss it, but then I would say from this

good thing like it was a really slick event. I thought it was very clear. I thought you really. I am not sure I really took it all in better because it moved so fast. I think it moved away. you fast move way faster than it does than they do in their actually onstage like way faster in other transitions. First of all, they talk faster. But the transitions there's this clip. I have to find that section with federal ye he just I do. He must have had deprived him saying these crazy word so fast like I would have to say five times I mean he's he's a real but in a magical man, so maybe he didn t have to you know he practiced. now that the first time by they were fast and and and also and top that, there's that spacing, as when your blogging or your writing or taking notes of one person enters the stage, does their thing either the stage and gives you like to men, in a way to like kind of readjust and catch up have that here they had crazy flat

shhh pans and steady can movements to the next thing and they were like there. You are, you are in a lab across the world in secret apple. Will it is actually true, that our planning document we sketch out, who will do what in the life blood and when a model in africa? sports announcing. So we have a play my play in color commentator like that's how we, that so dieter and wall are usually walt joined us, the sandwiches, great determination. colored commentator what was called and my job is always to transcribes fast. I can use. Apple event. They talk so slow. we should go to the substance. The announcements I just go back. Watch it what russia last year's tbilisi and watch this one simple gets, asian is like welcome to apple. We make the iphone. Am I It repeats everything twice and they like hammered on cause. It's alive audience and that's what you get this

for streaming, unlike taught three times faster than normal. Also, the audience pause, as for the applause, also give you a lot of time yeah. So it's like third party apps are coming to car play here go five minutes of applause from various at garden lands which, frankly honestly I would have clapped if it was appropriate fuel for car play third party. That was a J that was gained. Changing your capital, J wall street journal journalists you're our planet of herbs, it's true, but when we got google maps out with her So that's right, the thing was different: it felt different, didn't just we're at home The presentation was much different The organisation was good right. Here's all of our asses risk just going bang through them. We got We start the biggest needs of all the mac They're gonna use our own ships they're pretty address developer cap, which is a mac

with an ipad chip in it. What do you make of it? China? How do we do that? It's the biggest news of all. What do you think, like the Using your iphone as a car. Key is bigger news in the mac. Moving on the emoji masks, yeah emerging mass, obviously, the biggest news change the culture we're all going to warp around it we're. Finally, all where mask is rife and some emerging ass in it, but the I mean the army is like one of these and they want to talk to you about it. Is I mean still, but the verses day. We europe that every laptop review ends with four two hundred dollars more by macbook air, because that set which is your line in every review. Did for us for, like four years that particular computer set just the standard of performance in battery life. That was why it was a nice enough, computer afterwhile. Is it to do? redness reign in that was its big failing, but it The combination performance better life that you wanted from a computer in size. We, steadily gotten away from that unite. She both reviewed macbook, airs this year right and we're

good swine, but the better lives is medium. The webcam is horrible. no, that was your, can cancel about him. You will know that did not use any built in webcams or any of its two thousand and nine, and I wrote today I said I'm so excited for this future laptop that has this arm chair, but also better webcam, we'll see I think they're so constrained and have been the lid is that, after the no to do well, but there is one way to make the lid thicker yeah, but a touch behind their yet picking it up a little bit yeah making an ipad You think this is the right in this is the question and the mac any I've had on a collision course with this process or switch, Do you think that going to be get back to that moment where their laptops set an absolute standard? I think it's interesting. You bring up the air because there hasn't been any laptop

groundbreaking since the air and dieter we talk about as it earlier this week on our informal podcast about about what we were thinking would be the first system that would have the chips, and I thought Ok, it's something new, it's not an air, it's not a pro! It's like a macbook, which I did not like. I know you loved it deeply loved it understood so much. I really disliked that laptop because it did not match the air or what the air stood for ever. So there is also somebody who can't remember who said this to me this week, but when jobs decided to switch from powerpc to intel what was the type of system he had in his mind, that would be enabled, because, if you go back and you look at all the

our pc that the transition stuff in the marketing messages is very similar to now, which is we can't make these great products. We want to win this processor or with this chips that we need to. We need to move ahead into the future. keep thinking. What is the system that they want to make? What are the changes they want to make? at least on mobile there's, obviously a lot of other reasons for them wanting to make this move and what is that system? Look like what is that machine like yeah there's a part of me that says it just looks like today's macbook air, with thirteen out battery life yeah right. It could just be that simple. They just want to get back to that industry. Leading power performance mix that they had. run, a retina display which takes a lot more power, but keep the size down plus thunderbolt three alyosha. If they want to do- and you can write, I've had ups right like that could be it

this idea of a twitter that really runs unity. I've had proud, like I had my I've, had thrown its magic keyboard today and I what this was. it's the mac. I don't understand the ipad pro anymore, but it's it's kind of like why it is the end of this all when you can buy a mac, they can run native. I've had apps on its faster arm processor, they can run ivan Andrew makko, us apps and open the door. Oh and run one being the whole computer Why would you buy the constrained ipad pro, except maybe it has? screen and a pencil a pencil unattached stream in that seems like the worst choice to force people into. I don't. I think these are by far the open questions or think of this entire transition. I wrote in this just a quick peace off today about what what apple products to buy and not by and because I felt what happened this week in terms of software shifted, so much of what apple had just released in the spring so like I was thrilled actually with the mac line up till

like four days ago. Until four days ago I was like okay, I can highly recommend that you go get an air. I can highly recommend you go get this brand new you've got great keyboard. Now I can finally say this. Keyboard is great that good new processor. These are solid systems and then it's like they refreshed everything, and last year it was wild because they had to get those new keyboards and you had the prow, which like I've been using. I never did a full review on it, but I've been using it, and I I really like it and now I'm looking at I'm like, but why this is going to be better very soon, think I have the same. Sixteen inch backward pro area like it's very fast for capable why I buy a computer, I think, ass You spend this much monies wife, avenant, origin computer. That is a four year investment from this report that, at the lower end, I saw that tiny little one port map like that. You hate that's six. all the night. I use it all the time such a low, and you spend ass much on your computer has for years. What and this year they're gonna make a mac. We can run ipad apps.

Why would I- and this is much money and in time association in this- Transition is gonna end in two years, so the tire line will be unjust and over two years entire future of the mac is like go in that way. Why at this moment by any mac, unless you desperately need one as well, I mean a lot of people desperately need them. That's what I wrote in this piece like you, have a lot of kids going off to school and they need to get lap and they should get an air or they should get a proud because you shouldn't be waiting around for something that we don't know and how it's gonna work and he eyed. I don't think this is coming. In october. I think this is probably coming november december, so you're sort of stuck. But if you can wait yeah I do you should be waiting, and then that was like the weird thing: it's like you just had these great macs and you just had these great ipads and they're not like they're, not unlike the iphone schedule or the watch schedule. These were mid year, products that are actually beginning of the year product. So like it's, it's just a weird time

it's like the worst time to buy apple products, as they said. What's what's wild to me. Is they also said like explicitly in the keynote? There are more intel macs coming like they're like we're waiting for that redesigned imac! Oh yeah, that's also very confusing to me. So that's what makes me think that maybe this is going to be a macbook air or like bring the macbook back because, like the people there they're gonna for the next couple years like if you need serious horse power and you don't care about power, get it until that's it desktop chip for the next couple of years. If you want long battery life get a apple silicon, yeah, and one thing that you guys, I did a lot of reading of the verge this week. The intel question mark, I think, is interesting to is how windows will run on arm and they're, not saying the camp is gone, which that part makes sense there not sing, have virtualization will would or if it will work with windows. Microsoft is not saying anything at so there's a lot of big question marks and hello.

they have to kick keep intel around. This is one of them. I think I wonder honestly harmony and if you are listening to us in the zoo, let me know how do you are honestly raillery lee using blue camp except for games bright like you have to think. That's like the lowest thing and apples priority list is like work with microsoft, their weird armed version of windows and microsoft. we are licensing require, like I'm sure, Everybody wanted to do what they can easily do it, but there's not like like an entire mac, the essential that very early ones were basically pc. Architecture right. They were just the modernized. They ve strayed from that pretty dramatically now, with the tea to chip and all the other stuff there doing for secure, but they still unable windows. I can just kind of do it. Windows is built to sorted except drivers, rather custom stuff they're, all architectures and based on some standardized architecture, because there isn't one I think. Microsoft has a slightly different, riff and apples, different ethnic bridge that gap, but like what in a market is pushing them to do that,

I until there's a reason. I suspect they won't mild. My big question and is really as we get this transition. We look at how confident they are on it Are you brought up on the show a while ago and in your newsletter apple, is no longer good at admitting when things might not go according to plan, I didn't see a crack. They didn't even make mention of any cracked. this plan where it might be slow to emulate software or worse, they went to work or in the party meta intel transition had some bumps in the road and famously sort of emulation side and he was rosetta- is fast parentheses enough right like here. it's gonna be fine, but what you really want is this happen? here's a maya rendering in three d in emulation, it's great What do you see any cracks in any then? promises where

first at a systems may not do everything, I said it might or whatever one hopes it might do. I mean I didn't. I honestly it makes me think of It is significantly different about this transition than the transition from last night I was ten or the transition from powerpc to intel. I wasn't around for the old old original processor transition, and that's it those first to mac. Transitions were existential for apple if they didn't pull off us ten or if they didn't pull off until the company was to host, and everybody knew it

This one at the start of such a law is site. This is that this is what they want to do. They want to have a nicer processor and their max, and they brought them to be less dependent on intel figuring out, which maybe they never well as carpet. Apples assuming at this point- and so I think that they don't have to be there- have to have that much him hoodie because, like it'll be better and if it firm, if it turns out that there are some bumps in the road like I don't know, they can power through it, because there apple and they all live in a beautiful spaceship, yeah and also like it's like entails going away regularity. we screwed up. Can we have some core five chips? Like intel's, maybe like yeah, that's great amd there they screwed up you just stay an ex eighty. Six could be there. The insight thereby in some ways are very confident about it. There are many many weary the name of the chip is going to be rather just calling an apple silicon don't even branded the thing, I would say

wanna journey said, like you, miss that in impersonal lament one thing that I really missed was there is no unguarded time with develop years of apple executives of anyone. To kind get a sense of how we think it's gonna go or to get out there's so much, it happens inside conversations and hallways and events an irregular doubled over you see week, you fill in the picture and all of that we're. All remote has restructured that it's like. I still do, bunch of questions. I don't really have a lot of kids right like

we kinda know what that developer transition. Kid is going to be it's a mac mini with an ipad shoved into it, but apple is very clear. Like do not look at this product as a window into it. It's just here's a here's, the chip, so you can develop on it. We have no, there are no big hints about what that next set of products will be yeah they're. Going back to that, I was doing again a lot of reading and history, historical reading that that powerpc transition, the first laptops to come after that were macbook pros fifteen inch macbook pro without any him books, love them. That was that was that was the laptop that may be start using. The mac know that I take him was a g before that's right. There was origin, move to aluminium and they switched from power, but she ford a. He asked us to enter that. Thirteen and pro is like a real sweet spot for them. They saw a lot of them. So that's a real I think the air and thirteen inch pro where the energy will be. however, china. No, we don't have time to time with you. The reason I wanted to you on here cause

reference to our informal podcast, which does not actually broadcasting cannot listen to it. I would never let anybody listen to it also recorded, although maybe what recorded at very high usually does it see we all get says like hang out. I have a dinner and a drink. Then we were able That's we had was hung out with me joanna anna dieter, while lorgnette from wired, but Joanna in order the troll. This conversation insisted that we all bat and when the first Such remark will be because you get those screenshots of macro s, big sir. They look like they're for touching. They just look like their made to be touched. The controls the volume dial that the wifi ike I mean, their harmonizing the I s and echo s user interfaces. definitely more towards touching stuff, not a computer. You could attach more like surface am I right? Oh my god and all the under that all week, I tweeted. finally ended up his remaining. A joke have already made significant progress in anyone's Joanna

Yes, you issue your challenge and I will issue my prediction. That's the whole reason I want to do here, so we can make this ban public. so my challenge I'd. I dont know why and maybe listener Maybe you would like to go in on this bad. For me, we can make the poor huge. When are we putting our money on the mac getting a touch screen and not saying we need we, we need to go into specific on which model and what kind of form factors at what at some point a mac is gonna, get a touch screen. I feel sir and that there are due to the questions when here's my answer and when we have to figure out the pool of money, but let's just here away Predictions are. My answer is about twenty bucks this year. That first one So the first hour mac is coming at the end of this year. strongly feel that laboratory your strongly wrong. do not know how you gonna enable ipad apps on this map, unless you can touch them. What do you mean they just rolled out this new fancy? Little circle, cursor yeah. A catalyst

No candle us is to make your ipod iphone MCA catalysis proof that apple willing to have a kind of a crappy, app experience on the mac, and so they will, let you know, native ipad apps have kind of a crappy experience. I feel it's the first one. Why not take the shot come out strong? Alright, you know if you're, probably not, I mean like maybe just one hundred per cent wrong not one hundred percent, I'm betting twenty dollars two cents on twenty twenty two, because then we'll have a couple of years of apple trying to say that there is no collision between the mac and the ipad of their totally different nobody, believing them and then giving up and putting a touch gonna mac. I see, I think, eaters really close, and I wouldn't I wish I had said twenty twenty tail. When we were giving us not said twenty dollars in twain three cents. Twenty twenty three yeah, I suppose the predictions I have right away, dieter, two years in Turin has three years you can tweeted us with your protection, I do know how we're gonna like this money

someone invent some bitcoin system for us just like do some bitcoin stuff it'll, be Those are the bats. You heard him here, but let's go back one more time, tat. What you're saying will be in this first one, because there is a chance they just the thirteen inch pro or air and just put in the chip cause that, like that, does some marketing for them. They're like look. This is just a mac and it can do it. I still think they'd make something new, but I think they have to add some things to show off why this is better, so I've been like trying to think of what that list of things is, and I that's that's what I have a lot of questions is battery life. Sure right batteries is something cellular, not the old. The cellular, though, out cellular but it'll, be thirteen shrapnel pro, but they're gonna take away one port. Because I'm very life last so long. I don't need a plug in that a zero port, thirteen israel, pro with a cellular chip and no touch bar big. They just want to make some of us happy Debbie, greatly ticket

that's what you mean touch me. Maybe this is what I wanted. So bad move to touch interface up there. Also, Are you one ship in a mac? Yes, for what do you know about your car? So many things, I won't do you one ship and everything now do, tell us what you tv or about Joanna. I wanted in my tv, remote, so bad I do not understand why it is not what I am alive feelings about the tv remote this week, but the apple tv remote, yes, the apple tv by most of which are- and I talk about- is parenting toddlers. As you said, your son had hidden the remote someplace spooky, but you couldn't you wouldn't tell you where where was it under the catch? It's a spooky spot. Alright, they mean that they didn't have quite the opposite. We hardly at all. They showed off on trailer for show and they Add some some videos on youtube, be in four k and notably refuse to answer any clarifying questions about it. When we asked him about it just said: no

We're not answering that question. So we don't know how that's an order that was the only apply to the tv. I think they release in you apple tv. They have to change that. The commission too much outcry about it, but I'm feeling very strongly is the thing they will act as a touch me into the mac, do mean they just have to do it. you're, not look at their volume, cider and say Alan died, design that their newt head of design for the stuff Did he design that in fact himself this is great for clicking its super, not you designed it, for reaching after screen sudden rats, we great touch screen I'm at its outcome. Intel max will not have touched. Rains are maxwell attachment, something and the touch the track. That is also three times this bag, and it just takes up the entire keyboard tat he can exactly our agenda. We did not over the iphone or ipad to us, but I know you gotta go you in a parting thoughts and apples actually being platform.

I am actually more interested in the book. The watch stuff that's going to come in the fog and then the iphone I've. I've decided I'm excited about the our staff, and I liked eaters first look at the widget stuff and I think it's it's good I'm excited for the indeed area point. Was it's getting more complicated, but, like these platforms, I need the additional complexity now as they take over as everyone's computers. You should be able to pull them towards you. Instead of adapting to them, plus, you don't have to make it complicated, which is, I think, another point to your mate, which is like what I can tell my readers who write to me everytime. I tell them apples moving their cheese again and just say you don't you don't need to deal with this. Keep it the same unita which it even though he should want to which it is worth the adieu, China is also journal like mailbag column. Like you don't say,

you not need a widget at this time. It's ok, that's right! Well! Johanna! Thank you for joining us. I love having you on our show, we'll talk to you soon. I miss you guys support, but the shell comes from shopify. If you're thinking of starting a business at twenty twenty three building, an online presence is important, and that means finding a trusted partner. Who knows E commerce. Shopify could be that for you, they're revolutionizing, what it means to be

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I'm dernburg well in the richest its management, since a value on man thinks redress thanks around me. I was glad to be here yeah, the the reasons we wanted you on. You are the verges premier reporter on software version names, and now that we can't talk about android desert names anymore. We thought that we'd we'd want you to rat for about forty five minutes about how they changed the version number from mac ios from ten to eleven. Do you have any thoughts? so many thought I mean first of all to change. Add at o s tent out. Sixty is it just a ruined porta planning they could have, they could have waited for round number. They could have done this five years ago. It o s, tender ten and made decimals, makes sense again, as I said, staple have, setting o s matthew s. Eleven that big, sir, I received the big news we are just simon about. It must remain as they are in a support arm chips. I'm I'm I'm tourist!

thoughts on two things? In particular, wine apples made a gigantic bet on thunderbolt What three? I also think of you, as our premier usb see emotion. ever of dieter it's the time, I'm really powers out of it. So there's a lot therein connectivity side and then there's. big question around jpg. Was going to make it's own gp use. They talked about it, but they've got to compete with some heavy hitters and then gp world and I'm curious how they might rent it. But let's start with the connectivity, thunderbolt three is an intel. standard rate, thunderbolt threes intel standard and you can only use it with intel stuff. That's that's a fundamental thing. U s bc as non intel standard, so you can. You can still viewers, be seaports, ports and parts fine, but if you wanted to be a thunderbolt three speck with all the benefits and advantages that you get from thunderbolt three, it's just within tell right. Now, if you buy a macbook, you how you get an intact

ship and an arm based like t three chapter on the task bar in the fingerprint sensor. What have they flippant and they could just they just been by the bar- a bargain basement intel chip, so they can slap thunderbolt and there are max be deeply frightened to see that. Most importantly, the comparison here is the ipad proud right wing Usb seaport, that is not funny. Three straight usb see, I mean, there's a simple and I use simple in the loose as possible terms: talking about anything related to your pc. But the simple solution is actually a new. species back the riches never going to make anything more complicated, but There is a usb for speck, which way she's: u s bc physical ports, but it's

standard and the goal of? U s before as a secondary, to bring thunderbolt three like capabilities without requiring that into licensing so maximus visa, forty gig, but for seconds after hundred watts of power building power for two forty displays or five cape display external graphics card everything. But the trick is you have to pay and tell her have entails chips anymore. So, if you had, if I had to guess my bed is that apple will do that and because the nature of yours BC it'll be backwards compatible in theory, allegedly with other thunderbolt stuff. So if you have a thunderbolt three display which should work with? U s be for port,

Why would you sb for be backwards, compatible, thunderbolt, three, so that I am not entirely sure, but apparently there designing to do that because of certain point it won't be compatible with thunderbolt specific features of your doing anything in a weird that relies on thunderbolt. That will work, but most of the thunderbolt speck has just allowing for higher data. Throughput then and the minimum specks from usb three usb threed ought to by raising the floor on? U s before it apparently gives enough. I honestly don't have a lot of tells because no one's actually done this yet, but this is what the

be innovators, form says, or at least that's what the post on the verge about this says that entails says that they also co exist and that thunderbolt three will still speaker at stick around because until provides other services that go beyond hardware again, more brilliant have to wait and see what this looks like when they start rolling around which could be as early as apples laptops. The other answers at apple has no answer and just going to wing it and they're going to break all your accessories again, which a healthy portion or business is selling your ports back to you at twenty dollars, a piece. This is the best argument for dongle right you have all of your accessories they're not obsolete? It's just the inn. It is very dangles mechlin, your computer so you just have to buy another two hundred dollars for the dangles in your good yeah. I don't know that I love. That is an answer. It just one possible future: whelp apple cells, cables and

accessories, so I'm sure apple would would love to sell you a new thousand dollar wanderer, because your old thousand armando doesn't work with the macro twenty twenty two: do you? We think apple will ever sell a monitor again that costs as little as one thousand dollars like that ever gonna happen for us, but maybe Ok, that's one open question that there's a new I layers of complexity. There is apple gonna, somehow retrofit thunderbolt three, If any are max, are they going to move on to new usb? Will that be cross compatible? And that's one big thing: when we'll find out the other big thing is right now, apple uses entails integrated gps and then in some machines uses. Andy's is cheaper Where do you see that going? These did talk a lot

about how they're gonna make their own jp use? I mean, on the one hand, there is already a like prattle already makes his own cheap use like they make their own ship use fur for bio ass they make their entropy is the ipad. The ipad can run some. You know fairly beefy applications fairly beefy games. You know fairly intent if video editing and for you know, lower powered laptops for anything. That's already using integrated intel graphics, I suspect, isn't going to be too much of an issue and I suspect, is also going to be the first computers apple's going to replace. I doubt you're going to see you know anything with the word pro in the name. Certainly on the desktop side, the imac pro the the mac pro getting replaced till the end of this cycle. It would be a big shift in in how just like graphics and video editing work, which is really the question for apple here. It's not so much about gaming, especially after the arm transition, but apple's selling these as as pro computers and pro apps

it's you know photoshop, then, and final cat. I assume that there be known. Obviously, testing is ready and I am very curious to see like when this early mac many unit ships, what what that looks like, but I think it's possible there's a part of it says it's possible. The reason that apple has been so stubborn about metal and deprecate, open gmail is that they have been abstracting developers away from the hardware, so they can make this switch. We're seamlessly there there big tell them about. The event was: was that You know backwards compatible version of two major running. You know with rose at its who on metal or something so like it's definitely a key part of their strategies is trying to shift the conversation a bit away from from just rajiv use backs. It's going to be successful, Practice is a very well. I just did the top end of their line. Is the mac pro which has more

of all jp options in slots which has accustomed connected, for specialized cheap use has accustomed connector for the after bernard hard wishes in fiji. There's a module clarity at the top of the line where it's like. What is the point of the majority if your choices, one of two apple gps, am, I thought, I'd that to me is like Well, you should also deal with drop in doubt. Apple and nvidia will ever come to a conclusion, but you should be in the drop in like the top and indeed aimed g view, because he has a market beyond apple that center, visor investment, research and like right like right now. Apple's chief user pointed at phones and ipads. They are not pointed at you know the kind of like compute n g p. U that amd is involved in that an nvidia is involved in that's happening over there.

is that something apple Ethan can slide into that kind of bigger horse power, or is it there's differently, orkut I honestly don't know sensitive that I think it's possible you'd have to you know. I have to do more research and eyes backed empty, has assumed research too, to build something like I assume that this is something apples thought it right like they're they're, not launching a twenty thousand dollar mac pro and then telling everyone guess what this is obsolete in a year at least let him think they are yeah. That's it that's a real! We don't know how their their planning right like they. Just me. Big deal out of it. They put it out. I mean the last macro. Had this exact problem of being too limited in your cpu choices. Being too limiting your gp choices, it was, you know, built like a small apple products and the new ones by speaking of the opposite of that, I can't see

in ping, pong game back and being like? Okay, that was that was a fun two years and now we're back to to you know tiny custom apple gps that are very limited in what they can do. So these gps made obviously to work with ex eighty six systems. How hard you think it would be to make them work with an arm right. Like you to build an emulator and between two to make and talk to each other, like that. That's like a core question, like is even possible. I don't think you need a core emulator. I mean we have there. There are plenty of instances of of companies mix and matching you know. Armed ships with other she pews like in upset some phones, not all sampson phones, on Samsung. You know exodus chips, use, arm based or use different arm based they mix and match. You know armoury he's with their own views and and multiple course as possible. There's something in

fur underlying no code architecture that I just don't know of, but it seems to me that at least be possible to leverage and absurd aspect of it and in the last question this as you look at this transition? What's honey, your biggest? What's your biggest questioner, His question market is is, is not so much selling the developers it's selling everyone else, like you have a certain thing that you come to expect when you buy a laptop and you're looking at you know, mac or a pc, but at a certain point, you're looking at you know, design and software, but you know that they'll kind of work pretty much the same. This is like a very radical shifts. You know the apps report can be radical shift. You're gonna see a lot more. You know I package who s staff transitioning on and the question is: do do people want computers that look less like computers? I mean that that's my whole thing, like my biggest

question? I can't start ass a cancer saying what my biggest question is without like flying into all the other questions so like I want to state my His question is: what's going to have what what platform should developers develop to if they want to be like ready for the future, should they make ipad apps because they'll work, a mac? Should the swift should they just keep on going on? Go on making classic mac? Apps is apple, really gonna want them to do that. Should they sleepy attached a catalyst and they can like so work on intel max what our going away and like to try to answer that you, like start. into well? We actually got to talk about like how fast his arm transitions going to happen, how good the he used to be, and then you want to talk about that. You end up like flipping all the way back like, but then again look at the design of big sur. Everything here is designed to be touched, they also like updated on the side bars on ipad o s, so they would look more like max. I bars and the buttons to, and vice versa and, like you just end up like spinning, try to figure out like what is a clear path forward, because at the end of it,

The world either looks like everything is an ipad and the mac happens to have a non detachable non touch screen, or I don't even know right. It's like you can't you can't disconnect hear here If it's really frustrating there's like an end of the road where it's just an apple, oh ass, it runs the same on all three devices in your choosing. A form factor like that's a very feasible thing in five years for fur. To just be, apple o s. Have you heard of debts as permanent apples version of taxing plug your iphone near thousand dollar. U s before apple display a white up and be a mac. Apples. Gonna, look cross ocean to south korea in safe. We do so you're just came out of all time. Apples is typical facing an interaction screaming. We did it. You know, I don't think would have renamed. I've had a west ipad, o s like they are trying to create space between those who passes

they're, trying to let the ipad be more of itself and the iphone be more of itself are you said, I'm john rivers. cast from every day. We see the mac as markets and stay a mac. You're always Will the watch terminal on it like we know what a mac is where there are crossing over is the design of the operating system. Big sir looks more like I was than ever before. You know the one thing they kept saying to us over and over again they're like we know it's a magnet. We know they change it but believes kept the mac icons as beautiful as ever. and every time they said it. I was just that's not a thing, also the. concern. I agree. I do not love than you. I know it was such that it was they'd, obviously all been like trained. In our conversations to mention the icons and I went back- and I was like that- that's not the thing that made a mac- a mac is like the system preferences icon is not. Why am I got? This is the most back part of it, but there there.

Obviously bringing them together, and I think that the real question is just Once you ve got a mac. This all the way back can run terminal can run applications. Fast processor and a better life potentially is touch screen and you can run native ipod, iphone apps on it. Doesn't squeeze out like an entire the class of ipads. But why would you I just keep working on my ipod pro right now, just making them at just. Let me turn it into whatever mac you're gonna make it it's all the developer kit, it already has that processor like why just let it go, and I think that more than anything will be the first all if they don't do it The eventually people do. It will be the thing the jailbreak community wants to do. The most of all right It's like they just set up a new goal for all jaw breakers in the world, run mac o s on on an ipad,

yeah, so we're losing the hackintosh community, because there's no way that apple's arm silicon is going to be as easily pack into you know. You can't go out and buy apple's processor, so all intel based hacker Is it going away, but instead start hack, attaching ipads like a superfund trade. It's a pretty good trade leg. If you can get mad, restaurant. In, like a three hundred grand hour, I've had, I had so pretty good we'll see, we'll see if anybody can ever do that, but I suspect that we, the first thing that sir jailbreak hackintosh me want to do and in a second part of it is like the idea many of the ipad pro like quickly becomes. the entire is it a computer? Can replace your laptop conversation goes away in one case, in a very positive way right. It is a computer. it just it's a more limited, more focus, better interaction for computer,

and then the more negative one is it's not a computer because the computers are over there and it actually has a bigger app library and is more functional and feasible in the file system makes sense- and I I couldn't tell you, which way that's going to go, but you can see where they're cruising. Towards that moment. Yeah I mean at a certain If you have an ipad, that's a twelve point: nine and screen with a keyboard with a mouse that has the same hardware as whatever macbook they release at the end of this year. What's the difference other than that you can take the keyboard off on the ipad it may have to mean we're saying this because we're reacting to it in real time. They have been talking about this for years and years and years So when they release that magic keyboard with attract pad, they had to no one hopes craig knew of the other party to it. They knew they are about to do this. Other thing in these the questioner. Convergence was coming, The only question is how does the answer there their consent,

An answer is the up over thinking it. Everybody knows the difference intuitively great, unlike the one hand a buck yeah. I know it's true, like I'm, actually not confused by what I want to use my mac forward nobody's via that. For that, that's that's right, but in the in almost the exact same breath. I'm actually hang on, though, because I have to put something in my bag, and part of me wants to just put the ipad in there and I have to like sit there and think about it for a minute. unlike the answers, are changing over time, so I I think that there answer is going to continue to be don't sweat it so much just use the one that you like better, which is a weird thing to do, but like there might not be a grand master plan here. They might just have two teams that are like the competing with each other, a little baby I'll seizing each other stuff cats in a bag gets in bag. Do you know this reference? I'm do This reference is a very famous story about Michael Bloomberg when he was in short bloomberg media in his management philosophy was cats in a bag,

did he at all times wanted his executives. Infighting when the cats in the bag killed themselves through them out some new ones and like let him fight some work in cats in a bag like that that could just be apples strategy right. I think that they have a clear plan. four for all their flaws, whatever apples right, they put one foot in front of the other in a build to a vision, consists We and I really think their vision is. The mac is the more powerful, more open super set of ilo us. right, there's iowa, which are big volume, consumer product? and in the magazine a sit next to it can do all those things and then a bunch of max stuff that quota quote coal power users needs to do so. That is the fundamental question, because will there be a tie? When are you? Are you envisioning a future where

will ever be to say, there's something the ipad can do that the mac cannot in your vision of the long term, future of that apples building it yes, The ipad can have forty five cameras in a time of flight sense from the back of it That's one thing you can do right now that no man can do unimak, maybe ever will the ipad has. bunch of sensors in it the iphone a bunch of sensors in it. I very much doubt any mac lover have what mac is ever to support. Rotation I was the that was the asterisk on the r max will be able to run all ipad and ios apps that they can like. If your app is built around you know, motion controls or or a hardware- that's exclusive to an iphone. Then then, presumably you can't run. If you have a game that requires, you know tilt sensing you're going to have. You know no luck playing that on an imac if it spills around the time of flight sensor. If you have some a are apps, those aren't presumably going to

on your arm: mac, yeah, pork webby. I find I gotta get better half way straight to the mac athens recital worth afterwards the committee is the thing you're thinking along its they give adequate aids. It's the fire on the horizon man, it's it's right there, yet I think, that's a reservation like that obviously hinge, obviously to push gigantic pushing a are that push railway expressed on the I've had and on the iphone it is nowhere expressed in the back. just let them do that or does that become the stuff that those devices do that the mac doesn't do or is your next mac going to have a camera on the back of the lid? That will be insane. I feel like if you open up a laptop and it had a camera on the back of the lid like people would like run you out of the coffee shop yeah, just like a fully run, you out of the coffee shop and it's weird that that's not the norm around the ipad, but that's just the way it is but, like

Do you not sixteen inch power and you open the lid in its just huge ray of cameras and people like get out of here. Do not trust us for one. Second, there is definitely a prototype in a lab somewhere at at corporate you that has that has an ipad cameron back the lid. If they're going to put that array in the bachelor, they should at least upgrade the front facing camera. So it's not garbage or no at the ohio twenty seven twenty p face forever. Yeah for sure alright brings us to the phone data. we're thoughts on complexity in the austrian anybody will you think I mean I'd, go much preview, but I think that it I wish that apple had just started slowly, introducing some of these new concepts to the home screen overtime over, like that eight ten years that we ve been waiting for this stuff instead of just, in one fell swoop being like aright the eye.

I fought homespun has been the same and you can't change it forever and then all of a sudden right now you can put widgets. Where were you want? You can turn off pages, theirs I have clips so like there's these new temporary apps people are gonna, have to figure out and what's the the Think, oh, the app library, which is, I think, the biggest thing at all of all because historically, like the thing that differentiated an iphone from an android phone in terms of like how do you use it was android phones are confusing because they had a separate actual from the home screening. I from people like. Why do you accept that complicated? mind. You really simple already understands what happens hit home button and now like, maybe not you can hide apps on an iphone. There's there's a hide button, yeah the high, but is great, although it's like, minus button, then it pops up a dialog box. Yes lags behind Others that are the fact that you can't category UK change the categories and the applied very like you can't

you'd side is assumed. It was like an automatic version of the existing shouldering system. right. You know anybody like fun games the avenues you take into apps totally disparate right here. Its rent, a car, app and dropbox, I kept them together, and I also like make up a category for them. That makes no sense. It's like romance yeah, and it's like this is all confusing. As far as I can tell, they pull all of the folder names out of like the app store worries, but like heroes in the lifestyle category at why Why any can't renamed them. No sense I mean I get why you do it if you do have like four thousand apps, and some of them are old. if it is very much right like automatic management things, it doesn't want you to think about managing it is a computer. We'll just like slide some of them away and can find him if you need them, but this like main interfaces, I clean consistent. All that makes perfect sense. The idea that you cannot then impose your own

categorization system and sort of like the back half of your apps mean that's, that's iowa's fifteen in like in apple's way right, but it's like it should be from the jump. Well, I mean you also can just like make your own folders. Unlike the more traditional home screens, here's my question. They add the ability to put widgets anywhere. You want just like windows, phone and windows, phone sizes and blah blah blah blah developers have to remake the their widgets by the way in order to work with the system, we can get into that. If you want and they've added the app library, they've added the ability to the thing where you can turn pages off is like actually genuinely useful. well the thing that I'm probably going to do where, like I'll, have a work page and I'll turn it off for the weekends and they added all this stuff. All this complexity and I still can't place an icon bottom right of my screen have blank space above it. What is the deal? The majesty of the grid? Dieter

They could stay at a grid, just let me put it to the grid and the lower right. We need to make you an app icon. That system, like a p, a clear european geo, you're transparency. Armed on this, you, you you go to a website and then you upload your wallpaper and then they map every little thing on the wallpaper to an icon, and then you make a web short cut, and then you set the icon for the web short cut to the icon that you down in this custom website, and that's how you get blank spaces that I mean you could just get to just get a big big, empty blank space widget! Oh, that's a really good idea. Oh I like the idea. If you make a wish region than you upload your background wallpaper, it should be able to display it to appoint. You'd, have to turn off the moving removing home screen, but yeah I'm definitely not. So. This is, are all bad ideas and I love you both, and this is why I love you understand the listener. Don't do any of this data,

widgets on iowa s run on intel, big, sir. Yes, ok should they do so you only have to develop them once, but you know you need to like figure out how to get your big, sir up your mac out to talk to a widget, but their built ewing's using swift, you, I am the gown to this in the state of the union, which is the second developer conference. So right now, like a witch, and the iphone is basically like a little tiny up right and they didn't want little. Tiny apps running on the homescreen cause that eats battery at ease memory. So they want them to basically be static. You know like widgets, like webpages. I like I like the dashboard on the mac or, That is wrong. Going yes, restive, yes, so what they ve done is like yeah, you switch, you are you make a broadly static which it and then I owe us, has a timeline or it's like every couple of that's it says: hey widgets, it's time to update, you got anything and the widow Billy I, We have done every seven minutes so that now I've got something and then it'll get updated and then, in that process, widgets can also say my should really

priority and that's a puts them at the top of the widget staff. Which is another level of complexity, that we haven't even got it at that No one will ever abuse the ability to set your own shit is high priority. No developer lovers say my update is medium priority no big deal, if someone does abuse it, apples never fail oh no airs ever crack team of acts have to do something about. How do I look the entire ideas get it references. I think Tom read about it. References lifestyles and windows bone. There's a little bit upon dna, a mare theirs look like early andrei dna and there. If you work at hd, see here's what I want from you. I want to wish it for the iphone that is the aged, see android clock, you have a big flip clock gases in every early age. She see phone. I want that. That's it was originally from windows mobile. Brings out an overly endless, make this circle complete, bringing

The original windows, mobile widgets get it running and swift you I like you need that which it like that the literally the circle of life, all of the operating systems. The iphone destroyed. The widgets here actually says in the game, I mean that's offers great. That dna is long. Why do you think it took so long? To put it in here? Apple is afraid of letting people make choices about the iphone apples. Apples. The iphone is too big and too important to its bottom line. To risk people breaking things has been for a long time. It sets the reason behind the app store gating. If the reason behind the restrictive controls are at least part of the reason is. It is just too important to apple to risk like you need to be able to give an iphone to to

while the old into an eighty year old and to everyone in between and have them all know how to works and not get lost? In you know, an app library trying to find were face. Time is the calculus has been. We need to keep it simple for the masses, rather than give options for complex fur for the people who want to switch gmail to be their main browser. Sure hope we gotta get to default. Perhaps, but I dont I'd like this, that the solution was making an option and then have a million options, have a few options, but don't have a b the default and that's where they landed, and that's not a genius, oh my god thing they could have figured that they could have done it three years ago. That's what I don't get and I I never will. I don't think that's a good answer. Any error that, Seventy two and sunny peace like six years ago, eight days years ago, dieter at a piece for us that, we call apples are very unhappy with they were play. Words super pleased.

Very very mad, because diener pointed out that I mean the like the heart of that piece. It's very good! You go read, it delivers just a smart, if not smarter eight years ago, What time is? Does this all my friend good in the heart of it is the weather icon on the iphone always tells you had seventy two and sunny seventy three and sunny it? It's like that is, did miss thing. The changes make that alive and now we're like a full on widgets that are smart, detecting the priority of data. That's great! If you didn't, you could have iterated there three years, but I'm glad that finally did it citing and this other piece of default. Apps is buried news across all other platforms so the ipad o s, in ios you can set default browser and mail clients. The apps have to be dated four that in some way I don't know how you cannot delete safari email, you, I think you can took them away and hide the media can hide them.

yep. You also can't use your own web, rendering engine that the south east webcam from some. Though I was browser sargeus star, just safari, undisguised, yeah, yeah get chrome sinking or you know firefox like does it say like great different tracking protection different? U I b can do it now. We were not able to do it before the home partisan, going use other music services. all this is buried in their keener. It's better. In the slides at all the features. These are some those monumental changes, a platform that can exist actually. Home. How that doesn't require apple music is fundamentally different product. I don't think the home page you can set as the default. I think it's like the current. You know modify integration with syria on an iphone. Now, where you can ask you know syria to play a song on your home pod, but still to add an at with spotify at the end, but I think they are they're gonna change it for roma, because no hump, I can't do it all right now, can't you at all All I'm guessing. You reveal a sage issues spot of. If you have

pod, you dont have apple music and your spotify, and then you are I d say, played on spotify. That is a horrible user experience that even apples thirst for services revenue cannot overcome one hopeless. I say one one hopes, but I'm still sceptical, but setting new browser on the iphone. Is a monumental shift setting new milk lines a monumental? gift these to me, like the fact that they just skimmed over them implies they know they're going to be popular. They want to tell people about it. They don't want to say that loud they're not enthusiastic about I saw this. I saw a bunch of people talking about this. I don't I don't know who I am supposed to say that too I I kind of thought something similar myself, but this keynote it's because it was, you know, only a minor whatever, but it really felt like Paul, is more and more living in its own world and its more and more the hero, its own story, and so it's harder.

Apple too, like I don't know like not be the centre of attention like this, is the developer covered supposed to be about a whole lot of other developers, and maybe again it was because of cover occur. Nineteen, but normally dummy dvd, see, there's a section about two thirds of the way into the keynote where it is just a parade of. Third, party developers showing you they're app. You know running on whatever you know the new software, so we had to try the thing we managed velvet and just a week. Isn't this amazing right, like we didn't get lego art no. For the first time in five years- and so part of me is like they didn't bring it up because, like it doesn't occur to apple that, they should admit that you could leave half a world, at least in the context of this particular keynote. Yeah I mean apple, thinks it makes the best email and the best web browser on an ios or or on mac. That's that's always been apple's

apples party line, that's very confusing to make everybody knows such their point is a browser generate the browsers their party line. Email address, not their hearty line has been it's very hard to undo this right, The whole ass is built around knowing and safaris aroused I imagine this is why other vendors have to update their apps We ve got a very long in this section. Let's take a break come back, we got to talk. Who s tv? U s, air, but there's a whole bunch of other stuff to talk about in this five. Our virtues of europe, support for the show comes from gold peak, real routine, there's a time of day about an hour before sunset, where the rays warm and the breeze feels cool, but that hour of golden palace is always gone too soon. It may rekindle that feeling, but the pot of gold,

made with high quality tea leaves its smooth tastes. Transport should golden our at any our gold bt. It's got to be gold support for the show comes from gold, peak real routine there's a time of day. About an hour before sunset, where the rays warm and the breeze feels cool, but that hour of golden palace is always gone too soon. It may rekindle that feeling, but the pot of gold made with high quality. Tea leaves its smooth tastes. Transport should golden our at any our gold bt. It's got to be gold. I saw it about the mac at length. Arm transition. We talked about ipad, O s. Iowa s turns out apples. Forty five other operating systems also got

David data. I want to start with something that I know is near and dear to your heart Just smart home alliances Oh my god, there are so many little things that I could. I could just pop off on that we haven't even talked about the fact that safari now uses the standard, Webby poi for extensions, but they're doing it at a very ap way, like there's like a whole lot of I want you to do, but ok, so there if there's a smart home alliance and their work, with amazon and they're working with Google, because developers are being forced to like redo work for all these platforms era. Why didn't they mentioned samsung all turns out that samsung is also in this alliance and then cannot get over like wait. A minute. There are already is a smart mobilise all these companies. It's called the connected home over ip alliance, shrimp trip, so I'm pretty sure that this is just the same alliance but its unclear, but regardless the idea is that if you,

make hugh light bulbs ordered a thermostat or whatever. If you wanted to work the lecture and google assistant an apple. You have to do some pretty fundamental things multiple times, and the idea of choices like do it all over. I p VI the standard protocols and like we're going to pull a bunch of this stuff from homekit. Homekit is going to be open source in some ways and then do that, then everything will work with it and I think that's they'd. They basically just announced that thing again themselves on stage is my there is a tiny chance. It there's like a whole other smart hum alliance that back again we're just gonna have to live with that, but I'm like I'm like fairly competence, I think it is to my evidence, is very different in yours, which is that, if apple were to announce a new smart home alliance with Google, an amazon in it.

Google and amazon, would have also told us about rare. They wouldn't have them. I get apples got this one. They would have like also sent us a press release. They wanted whole thing, and they have already done that with trip. So I think it's just choice ok- is open source it is getting. Some new features are gonna, be able to local this: recognition for doorbells, ok, it's like tomcat can he's a pace. It still in many ways. It's the best one lay its the fastest does the most of locally. It's obviously miss price centric and in many ways it's the worst one, because the least amount of stuff works with it. Also, Harry now so serious serious involves sooner, its controlled by one drunk person, means so well. Syria. Filling this year like showed a pretty early siri got top billy because aid they they said here the things they said about. Syria

The casinos, thirty thousand more facts, which is just an insane idea. A quantifiable number of facts Syria is moving towards the goal of all facts right, or there is a baseline number of facts which was acceptable, but now we got thirty thousand more, very confusing thing to say also, definitely not as many facts scoop Whatever number google nosedive answers, that's one was it in terms of syria being smarter. They announced at the her face for siri would like we do you inside what compact you I found me. I thank you. I elements are getting much smaller on the I pay when you invoke siri. Have you the whole screen there's little circle at the bottom, which could be read be cool. If that was always on voice assistant? It was like you Talking to you why you did stuff, but so far and the beta the circle comes on the screen and the entire touching the ipad, his unresponsive, and it's a tap on the screen. The bubble goes away. Such things to work out there

when you get a phone call more come to you. I answer to your over the whole screen used communication. That's very good reason: those are the siri improvements. Yes like now, it's a little bubble in the corner, and it knows thirty thousand more facts takes a while to write. Thirty thousand facts these are the facts about the spaceship campuses, it would have it sixty thousand at all, the facts had to go through appstore topic so silly. We get top billing they're still proud of it, but they weren't like he can now answer complex queries are like thirty thousand bucks, real quick on ipad. Just cause like we shouldn't forget they didn't get any of the homescreen. Since no one should survive. That is very strange, and then they have got this difficult scribble, where you can just use the pencil to write tax. it. When you see a text field which is pretty cool, so you could take dear like a like fire, we finally achieved the dream of just having a tablet. You can write on a nail handle your text fields, it serves so the newton in practice

like so it's their revenge of the newton yeah. Well, no, so the harrowing recognition is pretty good uses machine learning, but it doesn't learn your handwriting over time, which is a bad idea. started a text field you can like start, you can like rome over the whole screen and it knows to keep riding in the text field, but is that instant, instant and so like? If it gets it wrong, you get like entering A world of scratching stuff out, so it still works better to write notes with handwriting. notes app, and then you can copy and paste that into plain text. If you want it later, how good is it at like bad handwriting, because I have a bit more handwriting like I've had teachers in high school, reject essays I'd written to impossible to read bad handwriting, and it's only got worse over time, and it is ok but again like when it gets it wrong, the hassle of fixing it if you're in this, level mode, is very high. So, like you

It usually gets just like reply to a text or like jot down a quick to do item or something it's fine, but like you're not going to be taking notes in class. With this thing, you should still do that by actually doing it in the notes app and like having it save the ink so that you can figure it out later. I'm sorry. I just think that ipad stuff is like one other thing on top of all of this. That was easily, alas, but we should talk about watching tv yeah. If you can watch you think you spent more time think about that south as we can. I did. I mean they added more like elegant. Is to detect what the accelerometer is doing. So they can detect more things you're doing when you're dancing for fitness. So you can do all sorts of dance fitness stuff. Another added sleep detection which great like good. Finally, like about time, didn't they buy a sleep tracking company ltd yeah. But that's like the thing of the mattress that like hit the mattress, the texture movement and they, I think, they're, actually using some of that in terms of like sound

and in general to to do some sleep, detection stuff, oh and they added handwashing detection. That's actually really africa at the moment. Where that we had to listen to them, talk about the sound of water and soap squishing, and that's what the thing to tax that's clever. I like that. really. I love that I mean I've given up and all the cute handle staff are no longer like sing the chorus, my insider reduced constitution twice its fine. You know it's boring like, I bought. This washer is tommy to do and I could think about anything else. For this twenty seconds. I'd be very happy. That's what technology is for If you back that little slice time landslide, that's your handwashing song, it will know my handwashing songs. Thou me counting the ten twice because just done with the games like I just you get through this and then all the two year old is there and I hope her accounts to ten breaks at one point, it was landslide, There was though it was that's what lies told me to do so. There

there. There are many songs. There is a website of songs, yeah, but now it's like them, fully here, I'm like. I doubt this isn't like a fun game anymore right, except for the teaching material. The count to ten minutes, irony, I am saying this technology exists to give you back of productive time in your life. That's what automation is for in that's what the amygdala excited by the Yeah We are talked about the of interest I can get into the nerdy or your details here on youtube, forte studies. So It's just you know they didn't announcer it. They said nothing about the apple tv right there, like the EU s. Here's a for a show we made like there were literally no announcements of tv s right. he's really changing that fixed term out the? U I still by fourteen it between whatever it's all the same. But then there are the others tv slide. Here's inasmuch as I will cite each even forte

the it as the latest youtube videos, navvy unfortunate that it, an extremely important clarification right. that narrows the scope of what you get to watch to just new stuff. My feet: He is right now the reason you she doesn't play in for K, in short of apple, rendering software so safari on the safari and your mac, the apple tv, whatever safari and the ipad. is. It apple doesn't support youtube's vp, nine kodak, which is what they deliver forty and does not do I want to do. It has never made any sense at all. They just don't want to pay the patent license whatever it is. They want to do well youtube and apple and of other companies netflix have all come together. They made a consortium, our favorite new video, called everyone where's, the soya everyone Andrew Tv plays some youtube videos, navy, one hate. Did you guys? Are you

forty, everyone, the newest best kodak, and maybe you encoded, newest videos and everyone first and then it's going very rightly library. Just views to set yeah just fly I will tell you I've. Just just didn't say as explicitly dodged, as any question has ever been explicitly soldier, I know, but that is my theory. They've they've added codec support in it's the new one. It's not the old one. They didn't want to use thanks, but it's a big deal, but I think it's going to mean until youtube back encodes, it's entire library and eighty one. It will just be new stuff from like today on so there there is another apple tv thing which is interesting, which they also didn't talk about at all. They just like casually added multi user support to the apples. like a whole g that at all you I cause bodies or was there before it right. It's like a whole. You,

it's like a slight out thing: it's built into control centre. It's like really easy to switch between accounts, but you can just use it for apple arcade and nothing else, That's what they added, so they had multi user support so that, if you are in Did it because we could, have a recommendation engine and the tv So the idea was that you would switch over it and you can see I have the t v app should be the interface for the whole thing, and I can't get there, so they added mobile user support so that your recommended shows or whatever it'll be yours, and your kids would watch that would be theirs I think now that it's just you can switch between game here and have different aims, which is very clever. You know you know what that will be greater bodies or support as the ipad, but we can move on from that. They just don't want to do. You can get multi use or support for the ipad by spending three hundred and twenty nine dollars other ipad. That's the fair! Have you heard, but our great family sharing app. That's the only

Prince between the makin the ipad in three years as a mac lets you log into somebody else, and that's it. three years or in three years you have to buy a second mac. Homer The three hundred channel series is going other little stuff, and I thought this was very funny. Actually got a text from our friend make a singleton in the mail. this announcement there like we're updating the airports, we now do automatic detection. We can switch. Devices are connected to across icloud and in their like. Have you heard of spatial audio and the actual tech? Emma was a really cool right there Do motion detecting using the airports, and your phone so that its like it it by a sort of maybe version of had tracking so they know where your head isn't relationship. The founding are moving and like the site, or whizzing tall thing. There's no promise in its it just kept on spatial audio, the the most popular spatial idea that apple delivers is in animals and they just like

wouldn't, say it, and so my Actually, it's like how burned is dolby or at the very edge at the very end. There supports five point. One seven point one: it happens so that they're supporting it, but they've built their own entire spatial audio system. with one supported format, which I think is interesting because all the three Audio stuff from sending amazon is like its common. there's one amazon speaker that does like three on yet so, maybe like was building a world where you know you're, gonna, listen, the guiana battle ends, so you understand what I'm saying I actually don't even like leads. I dunno why he'd bring up the song? I don't like it way. That was a good one and, lastly, dear you wanted to talk about safari or we could do an entire show. For they are, they are doing some of them. Aggressive moves against tracking and extension, locked downs that anyone is so ok

quick. They are switching to the webby p I for extensions. The current app extensions for safari still exist, so they're gonna have both, but you can't just go to the chrome store, install like you can on edge or chrome or, you know what ever you need to go through apples. Apples are app review process to get the extensions in cool there, pudding smart, instyle style permission warnings on those extensions, so you can like grab permission once scrapped version just for this website or grant total permission, because you know turns out that most your extensions, if you don't attention to them could, like literally see everything you do and the web. You should check your extensions. Just take a look at them, the highly recommended and then the other thing you're doing is they have this thing called intelligent tracking protection and it is a huge combination of like cookie, blocking and also like stop tracking pixels and they also prevent fingerprinting by randomized certain things and like it's, it's a whole, it's a lot of stuff and they bundled all that up into a number for every

the site. You visit that will just tell you how many trackers were prevented and not blocked some of it's blocking, but some of it's just like they stopped the tracking from that prevent the tracking, but they don't actually block it, because if you block it, the javascript is like. Oh, this doesn't work, I'm gonna break the website, but if you just like trick javascript and prevent it, whole thing, but now every website visit it will tell you how many trackers were prevented and with information. You are able to do nothing. you can. You can email us tell and tell us what the numbers on the virgin and and and shame us liked, and you can do that with every website. Can, if a website has a bunch of them, you can be like around. I don't feel good about this website, but the button doesn't actually like you can't click on They think it does not. Actually I'm ok, this tracker or no blocks bach this more whatever its literally just a button, so that, like you, be more aware: the tracking exists, son? The web, which is interesting unlike its great good good, airbus, and like I'm, I'm actually like chrome, is

slow, rolling, it's for privacy, stuff and eight others. There's like every browsers at a different place. An apple is by far the most aggressive at protecting privacy and preventing try, and you know the flip side of that, is they don't allow single say browsers still, so you can just make a gmail up out of a web page. They say that surprise you, I don't agree but yeah, it's all great. It's a very fascinated that they wanted to put this tracking number in front of people very, very prominently. Here's my frame All of this, because I on the iphone they're also blocking and they're there. They have a little identifier idea of a identifier for advertisers that a bunch of apps and they often use and they're being very aggressive with it. I was fourteen days I'm at an app wants to use it. You have to give it permission, you can limit that permission can turn off. That's a wreck.

like all this free to play, games that have bad ads in them that this is what they're relying on right. This is going to wreck those games like they won't be able to do personalized advertising at scale. A bunch of ad tech companies are freaking out, like apple's position towards tracking is noble in it. I like it and that's like one of the reasons is an iphone. It is also coloured by the fact that the web in general is Google's revenue. Plath yeah, so every shot applicants are taking in advertising and tracking it's all the stuff. Is a direct shot. It tools business as its primary revenue. and it is super interesting awash I play out, particularly in browsers, less so me, do I want crummy games to track me. I don't like other games and go to because of its taking all go away or I'd much. Rather,

in a market where I'm paying five bucks for game, then not knowing that free aims are tracking. You for garbage adds me personally, but Other people feel differently, but that's a choice, apples making us where the pushing at market when it comes to the web, its leg in order for websites as a candidate, here's this goes on. Our website has a lot of tractors on, because we run adds to paid, are bills to be happy to find a different business model. What apple is doing with its rather browser is forcibly constraining sort of the web business model of average and they're saying the way it works is bad. at least some people, innovative lots of incentives, innovate and save jobs. But it is very interesting to see when you say, Google slow, rolling it I didn't google also things it's a little out of control and add, but they also, make all of their money doing it.

like you just see the different incentives or apples like we're. Just gonna burn this forest down and a new beautiful private forest will grow and Google's like where, if we tram beverages mobilise and see what I could have you about a new layer of mulch, there are just like which is radically different perspectives. Most will see I the tracking I'd stuff, our sovereignty. Iphone is actually great. It's free why do people out in the early going that sort of notifications apple doing? Did you see that tik tok thing they want to answer now? So there's a new notification or like a banner slide down when an app pulls you're pasteboard, if you copy something that goes into the clipboard, oh yeah, now I see I see that there are certain app hits takes. What's in the clipboard or checks, the clipboard get a notification, and so lots and lots of apps check the clipboard for, like all kinds of reasons nefarious and not write like them

check to see if you have a link in your clipboard second prefects, the lincoln do preview, it might. I am prefetch. If you have an email address here and put forward in my profession, to see if the contact database and political like it might just want to enable the paste option. Yeah right, I've got an app called shop, which is that that's terrible is called chocolate checks. The clipboard for tracking numbers said if it sees a tracking- it just gives you button to be like track this thing, yeah so fairly, tik tok on every third or fourth key press. If you're typing in a comment, x, the clipboard for some reason. Why? So, as your typing, you just get to String and notifications, b, b, b, b b, tik tok pulled from the competent takes. I pulled like tik tok is already a chinese company with already we're privacy concerns and, like that's, free people out until

It is clear why all these apps are checking the clipboard or they're able to do more data. I think that's it maybe fra and arctic fox being super nefarious, although I don't know what from the clipboard, millions of teenagers, the chinese government wants to nest now, but it's it's one of these norms. It's gonna shift on the phone that you know sorry doing like enable bluetooth access, here's. Why, like everybody quickly figured out, they had to explain like we're just lookin for a crown cast like that they got added like every video up like we're. Just we only want which is really have our comcast. All of these are notifications, are gonna, have to get more detail. we aren't free people. I think that is unequivocally a good thing. What do you think of the the rd? A nutrition label style privacy report that every app maker is required to to build. Now. That's also self reported

You know this is one of those things remember casey two years ago, like interview, this guy tristan Harris is all about digital wellbeing and a dark patterns. It's all about addiction and, like he had a whole moment, trust in Harris that whole moment and then within. Like eighteen months, every major platform had digital wellbeing in it. Yeah right, like it just was the fastest take up of an idea that seen across its scale across all the puzzles. I think this nutrition able things the same stuff. It's it's a faddish idea that you should package concisely, the the most important information in a consistent way, so that consumers can parse and understand it apple does not have the power to check everything or nor the scale to do it. I don't think they want to so it's a good first step, but it's only valuable if every app that you use on all of your platforms do it and and people like us like tell you how to read that stuff and if that's agree to continue in a more standardized are agree to continue where we were we route where, wherever we are,

your product. Whenever we review a product, we list all the things you have to agree to was it's the same idea right, which is cool like I, please build an idea and do it at the system level. wait. I just think there's another level of education that makes that label powerful and like is that going to be right like last year. Carbs are bad, but this year, they're better in moderation in next year, It's like, we are there's just an entire world of consumer understanding has to come along with it, but you can't do unless you have that the structured data and I think it's a good move towards structure data. Alright, also happened at wbc know the the biggest story at that of the verge dot com on w b c day was a microsoft just like gave up on mixer and gave it to facebook, but that's another show. It's a whole other show, belgian, stephen and andrew of sir haven't a great job. In a story I really falling apart. What made me bad there's. Another whole story happening in gay.

on one game sharing platforms around harassment, Jake castro is actually a great story and that today, so we don't have time for it, but it is true that was actually one of the most popular stories was mixer, shutting down and mvc. Let's check that out. I want to just get a quick update on the hay app. see you might recall last week before it. He kicked off. We had David Hannibal hansen from base camp. The developer of hay, Carson David, selenium from ryan these the chair of subcommittee, telling about apples, appstore policies because he had been rejected, hey is now approved. There is a lot of back and forth. Cannot at all. in detail base. What happened was apple said it can't do nothing when he first lighted up. That is just a random rule. I promise you came out of nowhere basically but hey said fine. They may version of hay. When you first lighted up, you can get a burner.

with a random email address. Last for fourteen days there was enough to meet the rule, the back in store for good, It also has an invite codes left, so you want to check out a cool nemo series go check out that has called all of doubly tbilisi, and because we're not they in person, because the developers developers in bars because we're not at parties in events, it's hard to know if the temperature has really come down on apple and instead relationships that certainly has not come down for the regulators at all. There is just as weak reports at the justice department theme, antitrust actions against apple. This particular justice department under tribe is allotted smoke enough, but will see that that noise, it's there, it's not going away. That story is going to keep playing out and it was hard to get any reporting on how developers felt this week cause we weren't there. But I suspect it's going away, even though haze and store now, even though

whole change its rules. What you appeal? Not just your objections, but the rule itself. which is either monumental or the biggest dodge ever. We have to see if they actually take that serious and change the rules response developers, but I was the big color over at all, but the today is there's an interesting new email service. You can download the app and use it for forty days with a burner account alright cause a lot I'm anthea you so much adroitness has great, and if they do stern for joining us, the beginning and finer and twitter she's aunt Joanna stern thanks to haim he's at sea garden burg teeters at Babylon, I'm It was on tuesday and a special drop in the feed It's the new episode of recode land of the giants, all about netflix obsessed about peter kafka and ronnie Miller, as we great we're taking next week off for the chat show it's the holiday, but we After that, let us right here

and it came back into the editorial us. That's it that's the initial goodbye I win and I also win the bet. The support of this podcast comes from intel help your team get ahead of the work week with laptops on intel, be pro and intel eco design with instant weak, lightning, fast response of death. Smooth multitasking. They help your team. Do their best work visit, intel, dot com, slash works best for details, results may vary support for the show came from o, F money. Transfers. Sending money overseas can be complicated. O effects keeps it simple,

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