Let me guess you surely severely my gaze underwear produced anything first airlines about our revisit some return. My earlier earlier today, danny, I didn't know that when. When you are I know you shot wielder out of a tree with your rigour. I know that you weren't trees and literally climbed up and started off. The branch of a tree if you're not into the whole safety harness scene and all that you're just like sitting up in the limb of a tree with a recurve yeah yeah

sensitive, but it does so old school was caught in a word. You know how these giant horizontal branches and a mere up I was kinda surrounded by branches and real tucked in there and there wasn't. I never felt like I was going to fall out of it how'd. You like nobody ever does by catches fuel by surprise, foreign arbitrary suffer. So so how did you like pull back and swing the bone. Everything up there Dana branch you're still a big but a lot of that actually love my I'm all hunt down south for a long time I do not make a work. How do I keep your balance in and be in full? rise better with a recurring but a site. Isn't it does it was his car. I would call a mega or their pay no the tree, but in fear that yeah?

browse mule deer hang out, he dad's place, but there's a big that car and when it has a couple of branches that swing out horizontally and then go up, and it's just like this kind of natural. we stand is largely made up in their satellite and and I got a balcony rigour. I screwed in a few steps to get up there. You know but yeah she made up in there. In the meantime, little pare core round around? I might have had a string. pull my boy you're weren't aware there was one of those nascar harness for now. Employee harness all one about backbone? Can you first, Do you mind first of telling about how you I get the name buck you, because your boy, mike bone. Yes, I was born my body, nuclear bomb, Boden, hidden alaska outfit. That was my first winter in nome.

school, where it was right when locking botanizing papers come come So there I am the new kid in town in high school, and I am taking this buck knife that I just and given in a buck knife. I think it was my uncle. You know the guy who lived when he was trying to get me to be know an alaska native kind of a thing you know so so the first knife you have a saying a young boy need needs a knife. So so he gets me the locking buck knife. school, I'm flapping around caution about by the blade. So am I get by the blade then so when I sliced my firm open and go to hospital. They had to sell the tin in bed back together. and then I am at school the next day with back backup, because I heard the story originally. This is because, We can't see when you hold it with them. I

the story originally because I was watching you workin with chainsaw, and I asked you if you were double join it cause. I can't figure out You're films were cocked office, such wild angles. and for me it so it is so cocked off at a wild angle. I flew people almost, could see it through the it is illegal in the air and and ever since then. So. there's always attend that. Yes, so that so there I am at school and next day my family on a bandage it. They had just sown attendant together and saw me in all my infinite wisdom, grammar school the next day, duenna with my other, had ok so and same thing happened there. So there I am with with the just don't have scars here to show it so there I am at school now, with both my thumbs bandit and ever since then they gave me the name back in its stock. It would just kind like the best elephants,

managers are followed me on and even my mother's does. I guess there's some questions of brings up I saw What has to be reversed? I think, with my left hand, because I'm left handed so I was catching on with my left hand. In the next day, you get the bandage on their hand and you're, like I'm, going to master that same trick with my other ride. Exactly the same way, yeah we're trying to catch a blight laid the same way it. Of course maybe I've have and I'm trying to get my right hand, I'm not near coordinated yell at my right hand, course what the doctors say: he asked as I had the brains of a cabbage, he thought I was there. they bandages hand up. When it comes out you wind up or to what looked to be doubled joint? arms giving oriented origin with the end yeah yeah I can't bend forward, but they ought

equally sprang back to that. Ninety, the green eyes, the ice of work for a place called professional tree service, your climate treason, do narberth work and here he cut off his middle finger. I, as as from chains are we cut it off and log splitter Yeah I've always hold on he's. Wholeness chains argues I've, given you the middle, think because the glow of those leather globalized be sticking out and. Excited know the same guy. He bought a house in some and told them what he bought a house and sums that man, the lady that lived here before you buried jar full of money somewhere in the are we don't know where, without show up to work in the morning. I guess I'll see you. There are seven. I can't amber here,

always be out digging around in his yard at the second part of his morning. Routine would be to go out and dig around look. Effort is jar money with nine fingers and think with mrs said I mean- and this is a site is in actual fact or is this: just laws only went all vienna summit on and he ran it the chains are called sex doll, marino, that's all facts, absolute morality throughout your head, there I run good, but the rattle of teeth are your skull and re. I think I think there's Well during german may, but I may I haven't heard of a sax dome or for a long list on Ebay runs, Husqvarna, isn't radials huskies, instills yeah. so tell me how you want open, no you're born in the midwest right. I was more midwest and morning to you yo. I was not a model perfect child. When I was growing up in, I was in late sixties yes and the counterculture. If I was, you

yeah. Nevertheless elder lot over. He ordered a piece march is going on. There were those racial ten. And everywhere I go out with you in your illinois answer anyway, and I was a little bit better rogan eyeball It's been yeah had to be in the outdoors and I just to live lead to being outdoors, and I was frustrating I guess when I was a kid cause. I just didn't at you know, get get there. Much as I wanted to so. I ended up. Parents were into it Well me they buy, they knew I was, was owes money being outdoors and and I was always run away and go on living in words made have two cents to find me in everything else and then at one when I finally here got to hang out with her with some bad people? We broke indoor, my

grade school went into the science roman at our way, where they had had fun with it. Man so anyway got tk, doing that. So I was taken before the young, the court's near the end of june. And for the vandalism further vandalism exactly and apportion course that my recent history You saved me about thrown away so apparently other problem child. He do something with me And I'll never forget that and the judge said well we're going to put you in to do gift gift home, which is the boy's home there, and I don't I remember the jazz look looking down at papers and my parents above his godparents, live a normal aspect and we send them no normal aska and the judge looked up and

he looks at me over his glasses. Then he must all. My parents looks olbers glasses and said: I don't care where you sending just getting out of my town, and so there I'm on my way to normal ask so what? But what are you parents think about their work? plan to see you again, where are they They just want to see me rehabilitate and now that I'm just a thought I want to be in the outdoors here right. Well, I dunno theory, your body, so much saw it that they just saw that I needed some sort of change. You know they get me out of the element that I was in and actually not tell you the truth that it was the best thing ever happened to me. They put me up and in an el element it that it was nothing but doors, it was hunting basically living off the land, just doing all this off the wall, stuff that I will just dreamed or read about, what age were you when you hit but no things. Fourteen.

Did you know? No? No. I was thirteen because I turned I remember landing a know me july. Fourth, and I turned fourteen July twenty four. So there are thirteen I got there were your parents, whether it was the plan that you would see your parents still oh yeah, yeah I mean that they were implemented everywhere, yeah, where they just wrote, wrote me off and said you gotta good luck. It was just They stay in touch an ant and I think I think, It is about a year later, a year and a half later because of the wintertime, went down and yale som of the family and and was with the family and and ever since then we have we, we were still real real close. Our family is so it wasn't like everybody just to

away by by and then forgot. So when you were, when you were a me, fell in hanging out with the the native kids I knew it is where what what? What what like? What a digital group is known, it would be the new peanuts, but yet yet in vienna, opiates up there, and the network by others, you can fell in with the epp and now my instantly had had a native girlfriend my year, my my first year their night got to know their family real well and I'd hang out with them and and and it was the meat just the new thing in the world been able to go on and eat traditional native food. I wouldn't afraid I tried. Actually ended up, loving you

dried work, which is a seal that soaked in seal oil. I love that mug tuck who shook and then so I'd live I know I hung around with them quite a bit in their family. They they spoke the native tongue, more more more than they did english. So no, I got to learn a little bit about the the culture and hang out with them in any way it was before the I the idea I could still at that point seal with omen and and and all ass or I was able to go on those kinds of hans, and that was before the the act where we were aware than real jobs. Yeah yeah marine mammal protection act right and company among hans, oh yeah, you guys go. I issued seal house,

let's go home wars was candid of the really neat thing was: was it that my my god day state one worked? My my got out of work for be olam, then I do not know be a burial bureau of indian affair and then my God motherships, work first, state social services, so they are always having to fly to the real, obscure villages like us of booger, gamble, dire, mead I was able to go along with them and at first it was like man. I don't want to go there, but that they were they want me to see all the stuff with which now I mean it, and I have no idea just just how fortunate will really was so go. Do I remember my first smaller so we went to a bunker and state stayed with some people their agenda,

They asked me if I wanted to go out with him in one of the Amy action of the next day, so it did explain what the omega is. it's. It's a wall, riskin boat, it's it's a wood frame boat and they take thea well, while rescan, they usually split it. You know pepper it over the the wood frame it dries and and it's just a walrus skin boat. Now so they wanted to take their and take you go you yet they, what wasn't images they invited me to go so, I said sure yeah something went along and I did that a couple at once since have one go once and gamble and then which at nuts on ST lawrence island hm yeah, real, quick holiday,

well the wars with with rifles they'd go with, it was out yeah, we'd, we'd, look forma on the ice. Floes and we'd be gone, you know along and then we'd do you know, binoculars and and we'd see them and then they'd get as close as I could and then they'd usually take their when a bigger Because they were not only not not after their that the meat, but the were thirty in the waves we when you are ruining hit walrus has got be careful because I think right. I suppose they do a job at I've. I've heard that too with, but the ones I took her always on on the ice flow. And then I remember There is one that I actually did get the water and they got up close enough that they were able to tire of a boy to the wars.

yeah yeah I pay, but they know where were placed a shot ass. It is to beguile sullenness used mainly on you, spend the time of the two big out on nunez egg. And a home of the to twenty three was narrow Jani. I remember the causing a gag at twenty two to fifty two toilet small is idiotic. They place the boy just to get in the brain pan because it goes in the water you can lose. You can lose the whole hours if you can't get over and get added quick. So he says you got at got slump. He was saying you've got a slump right up on the ice from the I would remind brain, thank they were they were wrong, aiming for the eye socket. They are aiming for the idea that, with their up they favour place. To shoot him anywhere else. Of course, now that I have set such a thick skull, then let them the ones I remember gather debate. They would get right now. I did you like eat now. Wars, oh yeah, really actually pretty good

Would you go in land? Would you go in land with them and hunt caribou? Wouldn't they now, because they there were no care miranda. That's a rain! your area idea like that seward serpents. What that that time, that it was more moselle reindeer herds. There and knew, or of saint lord silent. I dont believe they had any kind of caribou or even reindeer there did, but they dont birds out there, oh yeah bert I'm and saw some of the most beautiful birds can park as they like they'd where and they weren't here they would. They would actually wear because they were functional day day. they shed water row and and they were warm but beautiful same time too. I mean they

they were ass. She still and that day in the seventies, dress and anna and the traditional native, wherein so how to work out the. How does it work avi that you got involved in guiding? I was Firstly, it start upon you, oughta, NOME, bringing you kind of in the you into the. Big game. World well and in an even though you had that, like that, exposure to subsistence lifestyle? Like what was it that drew you under the beat up in the mountains and hoddan. some sheep and wonder why I t what that aim. One of the kids does Dylan and Ellen you know to here in the life of a big game. there's an and guiding big game hunters. It was always just kind of real romantic life from always want, do, were just done and fishing

so so I always had that that that a law and no one eye, I went to know and was able to garden Tom again, and moves and and get get the tape taste out. I loved it and when we moved to address it. Hot moves are known and so when I get the anchorage we'd me, oh my. major school, we begone atoms you herr we'd be goin out anything anywhere. You know moose and then how'd you end up down in, though well, you just ended up that a they my godparents eight. They decided they had enough of the bush life in a move to anchorage. I moved with him you're a teenager then or whatever I was yet. In fact, there goes my junior year in high school and then so then I graduate from high school and in anchorage did you

did you view going from gnome to anchorage as like a major setback in your haunting life? Oh I hated it. I didn't want to go to anchorage skiing, lies and a boy ass had had all these girl France. I had honey, you everything I was there. I mean life was a grand you know, but yet sucked into the big city Second, the big city I did not want to go with us and then had get to know anchorage men and get adjusted to the big side city life at that point a big high school. You know that the way call it the green box and known the green box. It was alarm high school louis, is junior high with great skill, everybody in the same box and then they ve already start. the pipeline. At this point, no, they haven't, so that every year What now start to pipe eyeball leaves seventy five. Seventy six.

We're tired, which was really anchorage, was really here in the way we know it today. New now I may add a chair near the change once a pipe I started up anchorage esta manages boomed. It was amazing I mean the hunt nor on joke about anchorage is the hundred an still pretty damn good, very ambitious, yeah got a place for lazy. Is that a good place for lazy hunters it's not now, but it is at all. so why, when they say where we ve got hunters at the they get into, virgin and a thank man is gonna, be a snap as they say, moose walking around downtown anchorage in and even bears and down downtown acreage other their thank and wild It's gonna be like when I really get out in the woods at there's. Miss Ganem you animal many, a wild game movement right in downtown anchorage down and then what happens Men and emma get out there and they realise that.

take some them, but they realize there isn't a moose are dying. Every tree there isn't a bare behind every tree. These animals you don't care whether I see him or not, where's the animals in and anchored are there. Two people. So there is not a threat. Where is he now to get the bush all these animal still have that natural fear and they're gonna know they're they're. There ears and nose and eyes tell mamma. We don't make me think that made a deal with you we're looking the animals I was going to hunt you guys are doing in high school. he's gone. It was mostly small game. I guess up off the road system. We must seize and would come on a bit. We go must happen in september. like during the winter ptarmigan snow

you, Herr, spruce and any anything to get out and just playing a word. You know we had back then There actually was still a winter season for sheep and go back in the chugach, and it hadn't gone to permit area in there. Yet so yeah we could go in there and hunt sheep and goat in the winter. I never took took one in the winter, but I'd go with friends and and they would they take those pretty tough haha. Actually, no, it wasn't. You know, you'd go back. There is snow machine and laundry round, and so now anne S, that, and rightly so. It is a good thing that they closed at airport now and it's all top hermit and there too so how old were you when you got you first moose was an where no multiples of fourteen about when you came down here, came down here. I myself didn't take any moves,

until I went out to her went out to where, due to the river where I started doing all my guideline and really I got into the hard core bush lifestyle, so it was a and then it would have been that winter. for my first winter in there. After all, the hunters had left, then it was just me and there I decided to stay the stay the winter and I was going to be the I was a trap for live and I didn't want to go back to town. I just want to live out there. there are now is how old are you at this point? My first year at a high schools, I'm gonna, be I'm gonna, be nineteen at this point. So then at that point you said I'm going to go off and live in the bush and try to become a guide and trapper. Oh yeah, I mean an that's when a pipeline first hour,

graduated from high school. I had two choices. I could go up, work on a pipeline and become filthy, rich, like everybody thought they would or I could go on living in the woods, take care of horses and be a worthless mountain man. Let me see which way the scales tilting and a Malta to me, going I mean a worthless mountain then I should you just found our fitted to there is work yeah, yeah, they're out there that went out to work or you would look or somebody do the rotten and take care of the horses, and it was like a dog who and what what what kid would when wanna go, live out in the woods and his main transport. and being mean horse, living off the land. Then I made that sort of sky was keeping his horses are over the winner, yeah we actually took took the horse. president, is there. We were first sought

or that we're going to be flying you're, bringing the horses riding horses in and out every winter, but that trip in with the is so miserable that that we decide to winter, the horses, there. But now this isn't the same trip that you went. To find your lives for the first time. I not know this is ok. This is this is early so before I didn't really stay car. The large land until seventy six- this is, after already, minister, further a valley about twenty five miles from where the law is now so tired, but so there, an outfitter that wants to get some horses back into the bush and he wants to use them to hunt sheep and moose with yeah and but there's no trail that does look what's the take. the horses in they're, like what kind of journey is it? Oh man, it's just for one thing: a laugh and illegally south central alaska is really not good horse country I mean swap either willows chester.

it's just miserable? I am it's not not like you, don't know the west. Are you got solid ground is the right of any real there now and not so, yeah yeah, start ahead, not their weight where we now have in this big and the mountain men had nop into the into the mountain he's gonna, be rosy and anna, and at that get kids How can a will badge is getting oars admire down in unknown willows? We got to one when creed, where we had to we couldn't cross it cut hilton, a river. So add your clear up to mount mckinley crossing a hill and the glacier come down the other side and then so. How many miles is trip wanna, be it with his horses and well at as the crow flies only butter

about one hundred and twenty miles, but as a if you follow the path and end up probably be in two hundred and fifty three hundred you know just from all the detours. at detailing how many horses we saw our seven again I mean someone make it near Arusha, sorry. I was out there. We we we had had the the the river desk. Asian and mine, where we were gonna, go and then went. We must set up a base camp, just our guide exactly and, of course our. I would just the go for it at this point. I would just one now, the other two guys I was with. They were the yeah. They were the licensed guides. I was the newt new kid on the block. Never just it'll help from for for the adventure, so they think at first sight will bring these horses in one hundred and thirty miles or whatever, and it will haunt all fall and then ride back to town. Exactly

it'll get at when he never came back to no, no, no and then all the other horses that we took out there. We ended up flying in you, know two and there was a mine strip that was quite a way down. So we blow the horses up into a caribou and fly them out. Then right write em up valley. What in the hell you feed in the mouth and wintertime on the away well yeah, when we'd have to be come out, no would bring clients and an empty wayne would come out to pick up clients when we do feel a plain up with oates and compressed males about alfalfa, and then iran

I remember many times having to lay on top of bags of feed in a plane. You know to get get somewhere cause. We had a pet feed in there, but then we supplemented for the for the roughage. During the winter I cut birch trees and drink dragon hole, birch, trees and a they would eat, eat the birch limbs even the whole tree for further ravage self faith. once in the morning once in the evening I scoop a pellet scoop of boats and then a leaf leaf of alfalfa. Then, when it would get da really cold when we're talking you're thirty five, forty degrees below zero, which supplement their feed with molasses, that they would mixin with It- and you know Steve, it was really crazy. These these whores the first horse we had, we we bought them.

Or they they can't came from the yukon and we bought them. They they aren't, they they were young, they didn't know what in the world were world to do but we were out there. I remember the first tat: first year we try to build a shelter like a barn, make makeshift barn to get going said they would. No, no matter freezing rain freezing cold snow, they not going into any cut cut out of shelter. They would just come in and stand with their butts up against the door, the cabin and and but but They were so so tough, so rangy that they were. They were pretty amazing.

and we we we actually did try getting some horses from from the lower forty eight rod, em up and two of them didn't even last the first winter candy asses, absolutely man epa a guy up here if he won't walk months, a horse for the type operation. What we're gonna do if you can get it from I dunno that's the way to do it, and so eventually comes up like well someone's going to have to stay here with the horror, zol all winter can't ride them out and that your job is not my job. My wish I then here you are now you're going to spend you're spending the whole winter out in the bush by yourself. Oh yeah, man. Here's this kid from illinois all his life. He won't be Jeremiah Johnson. You know you wonder he wanted a trap and anna here just just be, it'd be a mountain man and here's my opportunity me right down to the horses and saw bugs and having to use the horses to run the trap line at the week,

there were no snow machine, the only we can, but they may add out. There was a change the ran about half the time. Everything else was me either an old wooden snowshoes run in the trap. I, when it got too deep for the horses or begin in the season. I'd have have the horses to run and and go ahead and string the steel and then I'd go. Use a horses. I'd I'd been little lean, two's that data. Ah you out of sight, it's trees, you know I'd I'd, cut a cross bar, put spruce trees on it and just basically made made a little cave on spruce trees if snow over the top top of that and it'd be a shell. So I'd spend the night out in and in those in my own cause I'd. I had three I have three lines out. I had my upriver line, my down rebel line and my up mountain line

mountain mountain lion- it was, it was only about two miles straight straight up the mountain. That's the one I'd take on the you know what I wanted a break and in the other ones where they are like five miles long, so ten ten miles from round trip which which, when you have an established, trail snow. shoot trail. I mean you can scan right right along, but when you have a fresh no of course you have haven't a bright right trail, so I can cut it kind of work where ya the sue trap of pine martin links, wolverine. Ah yeah big moneymakers were certain number one will re number to be sure that the price on There were high, then, and the first first I I'd, trap and beavers through through the ice all the other romantic you see in the books about cut in the hall and make him your pole and admired forget that I just start trapped in a bank beavers.

and when it was called, you wouldn't see em. But as soon as you get a warm snap, the beaver would be out like they be coming out. You smell, indifferent, fresh air and then- and I may be everywhere, and if they were a lot easier to take than he finds sentiments bring I'm sorry the focus on in the spring. Now I'm in a fall yo early on and then a remedy for all right exactly and then, and then even like, like like a say winner, be a warm Well, come up, you you'll have harry, knox come in january, ill late December january february, and a b b will come out then and now go back in what said warm words, was over, but it was more. Ah I caught morn and fall confusion trying to other near the end of february, and try to get for rendezvous and hit fur auctions and sell my furs

yeah. So, where you make more money trap and are more money taking care of these horses, I wouldn't get paid to take care of the horses had either. I was just out there. You know voluntarily. I wanted to be there, so I wasn't getting paid to take, take care of the horses and it was them who wanted to make any money. I had trapped on it, but I had had an annual expenses. You know they they paid for my food. You know what what food they would give me, of course, the you know all the prime stuff like a butter and potatoes and everything it was always gone within the first month and it usually ended up. the last couple of months that I would be in there. They have nothing but a strict meat diet. I'd have to shoot a moose and, and then I live, live on the moose it was. I had a grinder out there, so I'd be like yeah, I'm drying If some moves burger at most murder and morning then and moose stake for lunch, moose

rigor in the evening the moose steak for breakfast the next day so cannibal altered. I'd always have have some some kind of amuse concoction. You and your beaver me. Oh man, bieber's early, actually pretty good. It is yeah and then I remember one time. Cuddle links and I tried eating the links and links was at. I was a mayfly links is really good now and then I've tried a few other things. I remember When they will open a trifle mouldering I'd take the sculls light like up bobo brain boils down to keep kicked, keep the sculls. Please I had thought this ain't been boiling for awhile set meets gotta, be pretty tender, so I pull a skull out and I just kind of take it look at it looks very tender, so I've kind of been into life like an apple,

bad idea. It's says it like Atlanta has now it's not now you eat in squirrel porcupine fourteen hours during the summer fora for me you usually what I do in the spring. I would shoot a blackbird and then I had a man. Major smoker that that I damn spoke up, the black bear me and then for fright, fresh made. It would have to be a lot of great in a brain rainbow river, but

but I'd also eat a lot of porcupine and yo snow, snowshoe, hare and grouse. Anything yeah, of course, who wouldn't take taking the muscarinic as it just wouldn't, keep her any way to preserve air, but a lot of a lot of small game and then eventually fall comes and it's time to guide right yeah and that became kind of your you kind of oh yeah repair yeah, that at yeah, not not only the passion, but you know at some point to a guy said. Well, you know I need I need to make make some money so yeah. My first, the first burst of your your guide. I was really scared and nervous, but but once the guy got out

he was from hungary- did didn't speak any english. You first client was hungry. He was EF, he didn't space began in any englishmen, and so he we must have been me and- and it was kind of like a wild there's somebody out there depends on me. I have kind of have his life in my hand. I felt powerful because I I was really secure and bait. I can take this guy out and take take care of him. He sure couldn't take care of him, so do you recall and move them, and- and I learned from the guys I first started- but without there I'd listened and the first time I saw it happened why this it works and that a lot of it came through rebecca offers. Real, quick. Ah, it gives me the

now do the do that do a boycott and and It had to try and prevent project. Everybody wants to go out. There were the birch bar owned and everything else, but to me that just just ridiculous idea, and then and then there's other says, I'm young people happy some make Mcallen bottle copycat poor rope through it, no one ever ever signed such on a real debate and a lot of that. When I, What do I would actually be out there now she here, the cows are here, the ball. and then and then just try and mimic that you have yet to hear of yet here cow, Do you know who to call you a calico man at your bowl, every every yeah yeah bowl, but every year, it's pretty common maybe me I mean yeah. I've been laid in the sleep beggar night, moose camp

Eureka was called the angolan aid. Even you know I see there, man but I check my older brother's mother, not danny here, but my other older brother, because maybe the more I think about it. I think that, like I talk to him about it, I think years ago he did falcon yeah. I gotta I gotta ask about that cause. I have like the vague recollection of it, but back in this chat from hungry. this. Your first guiding experience. It is MIKE Mike my very first under the guy get a moose: yes, he did air was that it was so so funny when I Now he was scared to death the horses and, of course all the horses had different personalities. You know and then, I tried, but monday, most docile horse. We add, but but still the same token yeah, that a horse.

The horse can really sense an inexperienced rider. You know he an old punkish. He can look back at, but whether either and she said yeah- I got this guy's ticket. I know what I can get get away with and we we'd go off. at the the trail and punk he had taken underneath branches it out, and I am of course yeah he's a like like what rang yet you're trying to teach him whether the horses are net neck rain? But of course, how he's he's got the reins and he trying to trying to pull him like her Paul had one way or the next, and she didn't like that. If it was like no viola, I've had enough. You know that is what what what what she's thinking and he just he just couldn't get guy great guy and it was. It was fun. It was a fun experience and being able to just have somebody else.

There is no life in my own hands and and being able to take him whatever was they were looking for? Respawn did you? Did you like being responsible for someone because you'd eyes perceived yourself as a troll baker in a derelict in here was sort of away that two of proving that is it true? What do you mean you like to have now? That's it that's a little deep. I never really thought about that. It might be a little deeper mean. There's gotta, be something go now. Why did you like Heaven? I I never really tried to analyze it, but to me it was just to do you know. I didn't see see it. You know from my from my fall says it the kid I decide that enjoying taken this guy, because because I'm Good at what I'm when I'm doing and anna something I've always wondered,

Do you like that? Like the teacher role, I be like the ass. I you like you'd, show someone something you loved I guess I really enjoyed the EU especially be being that at that age. Somebody looking up to me. Some it's over me, the media, a senior looking up to me and and ask me this question what we do How do we do that? Her? I just See me, as I know, the expert in what I'm doing and that that about good broke from the clients perspective was probably really well be with anger was someone that was that connected to the landscape, oh yeah cause they get there at least in this day and age. Maybe then to so many these guys role in jasper, We fear not cease from someone laura. Forty eight in and plus I'd. I suppose I probably probably look the part two in our ears this here's a guy with a

longer here in a closed closed a war, not that I was to address the part it just at your naturally fall in the end. The look in the mirror movement should do it I'll. Just somebody. That's lived in the bush and yeah. You get these people from commander are pretty much eddie born and down the city aid they can. They can see that that you, better bullshit you're comfortable out there and really aren't and yeah ended. they don't have any problem and partner life in your hand, how long did you guys that outfit before gone off and trying to start your own elevating business oh I was with him into the lab clear through the air, through the eighties and then got my master guidelines. Now I went into business from I think my first hunter were like nineteen. Ninety

nineteen. Ninety one somewhere right does for us. They are gone by herself a point. We already you already headaches is guided the things that the made these like focus on our dall sheep moose members right right, dolls, moose brown bear grisly there near what were most noted for in that order. And as the oregon sheep moose brown bear grizzly yeah and that and that's basically more what the you know what we had out there, but what I at my teeth on and and and and in our area, you know just has as a good good population of all those, so went into business by yourself. That's what you focused on right, yeah, yeah, with advertised more fer. You know

and if you want take caribou black bear they're out there, and you know you can go ahead and and take them and have no extra charge out there cause I've. I've always been a firm believer. If you book a ten ten ten day hunt, you ought to be able to stay out there and hunt hunt for ten ten days. You know, but those times have changed. Now. Oh boy, big time, yeah yeah yeah, no one wants to hunt hard anymore now they yeah and at that nasa. You just can't convince a lot of these people that very rarely do these animals come in surrender. I mean you've actually got to got there and work for them. You have to get wet. You have to get dirty you have to yeah, you've gotta be uncomfortable, some sometimes, and you have have to work work hard at it and ah you know you have have to be able to accept disappointment. Sometimes you know that animals aren't always going to move the way you want and a guide. Can

be out there and you can have all the experience and the expertise and world, but sometimes elders. I'm no there's not enough. These animals don't care whether you see him or not, they're going to do their very best. To avoid it. but you are involved in alaska, huntin, at a time when there was still a bit like exploration going on right, I mean I'm a big like mad making, but You could pioneer new huntin spots back that oh absolutely yeah, and that now, as part of that part of fun, I add a winner when I uttered that there too and my to me, part of my job or my my obligations to where to take the horses and just head that way see what's over there. and they were. There are still areas that are wild word. Nobody was, nay, nay, nobody really. men in their own tried it out, and I take the oars and I'd het up and then in the mountains for days

new places. So did you find like a little sheep spots and staff the people whose head on a cheap, yeah well The area where we hundred it is before the at the national park and preserve was implemented. So we What the hell head of the bally and and we'd always heard there were sheep up there, and- and so we took the horses up there took about three days- went up there just to check it out and salted the was cheaper there. So we went ahead and booked a couple honors and took him up there before that It was just me, you know, I guess people would fly up there, but we we didn't really have access to airplanes or anything that thing like like the so just all everything we did exploring. We did were on horseback, and won't be a long hunt. You guys back then ten days everyday is usually based on ten days who about Does the messing around by yourselves

as far as my hunting go yeah, I pretty much as hunting. Every day I mean it appeared a time work and trap in season or whatever, and I needed moves. I just got turn I wouldn't get hard court, like my at the clients. You know your obligated to hit hard, all day every every day, and I just when it's out there by myself, hunting on my own. I just do it at my own convenience. I wanted to or needed it or if I got hungry, was master guide license it basically just a it, holds the same weight as a registered guide licence. But it's it's a long javert s fame that there are you it. I begin how many years you had been a matter of a registered guide for so many years. Had so many favourable recommendations been approved by the guide board? Before, though issue you master guided

I, and so it takes a madman, mama least twenty to twenty three year to become a master guide. You've had to dial down your initiation as as an assistant guide, which takes three years, then you can apply to take your registered guide test and he said that this pep at mac, when I did it in in the seventies and then ah then ipad have I been a registered guide books on so many hunters had so many favorable recommendations from them and then you can apply for your master guide, license and how many master guides you think are in this state. Now I am not sure I know. Ah, they they dont reissue of a master guide, license number I've got one at all. One of the lower act of master guide numbers right, but right now what

In fact I remember its eighty. I remember when took my regular, the eightieth, gotta become a master guide. Yes, I remember and of course, there's they all diagnosed sent that a lot of times he reached some ass master guide status. It's you're, not around the bite a bit longer at the moment. I took my registered guide test in nineteen. Seventy eight. It was what one one of the big biggest accomplishments My life, I better that point. I remember I get it. I did did the written and then I passed the oracles and

and when I came out of the orals I was out in the hall waiting in the end, the gal that was given the test worked for the state she came out and she said. Might she walked out to me? Looked at me. She said: congratulations, you're, the youngest registered guidance state. So I was a youngest registered guide date. At that point, article yeah, I thought that was I tried to go out to dinner. That night had some alright yeah there you go. That's what I'm talking about. Did a recent example of like a question the answer in the in the orals or re any question: yeah. I remember. Ok, I'm, for instance, some of the some What are the four Poor mammals in alaska remain white. Ye around there would be a question only limited. Let me do that one I got three of year

and it's always the port yeah yeah. I got it there is a key word and natural gas a trick question by god. Now goofed up cause. Now the question again minutes the question: what are the four mammals that remain white area dirt minutes? He got it. I think so, rich founder, you don't say mammals, ample overemphasized motive. There's a whale says why here it is, cambodia dead ones minute ago, an hour ago. Yes, the beluga. Well, do you know what after three hundred. It's amazing how so many people in there in my life and some of them are hanging on a wall and there's that up in the air yeah no bo, but we got a goat and we gotta sheep. I know you know and then of course, the other one polar bear and then

I remember when the other questions to what are the four for animals that changed color with seasons, time again weasel snowshoe hair article article, No. She didn't want all three ptarmigans, there's three right. There now come on your phone here, all weasels weasels one they go from a weasel to an ermine neil. bring of regular wonder why one right, so not all shared some from wonder why one right. both were recommended. Go if the arctic fox there What did I say to you like or matters already here care. Snowshoe haired are all here. That's your question. Then you have all those most

Last one: that's, where are the fbi have already fox, ran aground overdo it you did, did you feel it? it's got any those hey good on the first one like a animal male fire. I got it because you're, like a man, However, I do member, but when the question I thought was a trick question on the run registered guide test when data- and I got it wrong to, but The quick question was when you stand around a campfire Where does the smoke go? and yet it was like prevails towards towards beauty? And that, though, is the one. I thought that was that the stupid answer was because obviously we stand- on fire to smoke blowing in your face,

creating a little your creating a backdrop. Well, I'm not thinking up I've taken when other, just there they're just trying to be funny with new, where their actual is truth. Your body creates a bad grabbed. The spoke europe, You spoke of pigs, ass, rien about one guys used to use the strategy. You talk about the lean to build a fire in order to try to fill it. The more that oftentimes people will be? that leads to that is that the pitch is pitched into the wind thinking that you got when protection yeah, but how caused all their smoked appeal up and you actually want to build. It saw the winds moving across them cross the mouth, the right, into. I saw my desire, united having a small to hold whole, not only from smoke too, but I drifting snow too. I mean it did not do the same thing with the snow.

lotta, what I'd, but I hope he does freezing year ass man, don't you good bag. Yeah. I had to remember my mom one of my first gift. She got me when, when I first moved out there, my first year was a a north face, expedition bag. You know down, and I've still got that to the young, to stay up up in LA the large yeah, but that a lot watertight edwin times, and we are I'm sorry fee or head toward the fire I using my head. If there were I'd, lay down that you have the heads taken out that that's what felt the warm but my favorite, one steve.

I'd be an entree, and then I decided I'd be spending night and then I yep the snow is usually five, six six feet deep and you get a you find, the big spruce. Of course you know the the snows fall under branches, no brainer branches down and there's a big void at the base of the. Tree and at all it dry dead grass underneath their oil. We like a tree well, yeah, yeah, yeah and an you'd cut us bruce biology out late land abandonment and you crawl up underneath there and you dad, kick some of the snow out. You know and at the well you'd get a fire going down there and you could actually get some pretty good. Warmth come coming up underneath their cars fired. You know the it the branches ass she hold some of the heat down in their could have the branch would have snow on them too, and and you're you're you're surrounded toad. Basically, you arrive.

Really a nice shelter and then I'll, never forget time, just fallen asleep. Neelix I'd cut the spruce, boughs and lay on top of the proof bouche with a sleeping bag and just the smell of the spruce and the dead grass smelled the fire it yet I mean right now I can still visualize it and sense it, and it just really brings brings back some nice memories. That kind of stuff would you ever come across a craters and as those situations where they are down bedded in those warm spots, are no, I can't say, as I I ever remember, any: there are no times that you'd go along and if you'd, actually, you know either see martin or wolverine to scare him up, but I've never actually chased one out of a hole like that. How many or how many times have been attacked by bears three times

yeah. There are like how many missions have you had with bears many close calls yeah, I dunno. Quite a few. I mean there's quite a few. I've had a brown bear that have as tracked and brown wounded, brown bear and he had circle round was coming up behind me in a willow patch. I had a brown bear that had a client we took a brown bear, there was off a moose carcass and minute we shot. There was a another brown bear to sleep in and the alders right. Next to us, we didn't know about that, came and came bounding out if it was probably fifteen feet from us and came bounding out, and my aunt clyde turn at time to turn round and I'll. Never forget that that the sat sounded at this one still just makes her hair stand up on my neck that when she was coming at me, she was slow.

brain and when she would pick up her paws, you could hear the claws clacking when she'd pick up or paws running at us, and she was I have never. I have never in my life seen such rage in an animal as as his brown bear had we had. We had time to shoot from the hip. We had turned around cheapen the hip and when she dropped, fortunately it was actually the clients bullet that that hidden head, but when she dropped her nose. Lana landed on on my hip boot, but and I'll never forget after that him, and I both sat down and we just started shake, and you know the old what is cause she was if she had got hold either one of us. We wouldn't you know one of the others wouldn't have been here today. Is that I've? Never in my life seen that kind of rage out of an animal. How did you get attacked by three black bears Let me see one of em, my god

Parents come out when I first went went out where I was you know, stay in and they came out one one summer and brought friends of theirs from texas. They they were front from texas. and it was you know, little sod roof cabinet that that we had built it yeah we're spending the winter. So I just let them have a cabin, and I slept in a tent out side and I was in the middle of the night and also I sleep in and all of a sudden. You know and just being. She'll can drug, and I was like what the hell you know and and I'll never forget, looked at that lady from the guide class yeah I'll, never

it looking over and seeing the imprint of his baritone. What I mean is still so so so vivid and he's through the tent fabric, yasser to the yard. You know the nostril holes, you could see him and he's backing up, trying to track drag me up and into the bushes and- and I was sleeping with my forty four and I just grabbed it real real, quick and you know shot in the head well through the tent through the tent yeah yeah and it it fell on top of me and and there I am all all tied up, a sleeping bag and tent, and you know oh and I'll, never forget my godparents that came out in in my aunt mary kept kept saying I Lee MIKE's may attack by the bare shoot at shoot at shoot it and what it is I'm trying to push it air all means of bare. Where should I am screaming? Now? Don't shoot and no sooner this year. It is because, of course, their nerve from tax

they weren't real wood, Sabie they're, just looking at the lights. They will realize that a bullet can go through a bear and endo into. What's underneath it know so yeah did you have any when you were traveling wolverines? Did he have those every just hear about how aggressive they are like? You don't have the ground by adored. There was one time will reign there and I'd gone out. I just had my seven mag with me. I was doing during the the upline trail, so I took the seven mag with me looking for a moose and went back and ah about maggie the cabinet and got I dunno about half a mile away and was sitting at this mineral lake hoping to see a moose come in so sat there for about an hour din said: well, I'm going to go, go and check, took my traps while coming up here and the night before it hit it had rained and then it had frozen hard.

Next more about got up to my ash got my first set had martin in it and then got up to the second set, and it was on a a a dead snag. I had had had to that a number one and a half type died at the end of a dead snag and the snag was broken off and I got Tampa wow what happened at this. Look and look for trash to see where the trap and everything tat they were, but everything was frozen, so couldn't really see much in a way a trap. in an open, a distance. I hear this snarl and I knew right away they. What had happened. a wolverine who got caught in the number one broke off the snag and had taken off so I I start beaten feed over to worthy yeah. I know

it wasn't, I got there and there was a wolverine that was caught by one to and he was he was tangled up in the willows. So I got my cemac. I didn't want a shooter with seven mags, so I started looking around for a stick to hit him in the head with. While he was just going nuts, I deplore that, and I could second and all of a sudden he pulled out of the trap and in just just for but second, I'm stand there and he's down here were probably ten feet apart with which we, both just stare at each and then and then all of a sudden, he came and at me and he started, I had car cumberers on and he he hit meaning. started climbing up up my my my lace, just shred new car and the only thing I had in my seven mag. So I had to buy the barrel,

I started swinging at it like a baseball bat with the alamo yeah. I know what the hell and it ended up, ended up breaking the stock of the the then and into the stock of the seven mac. You know when I hit so if the wolverine, oh yeah, yeah, and not knock them knocked him out. He was intent on, but literally cow yeah. So that's that's the only time. I've ever had a wolverine get a hold of me. So I want to get to some more stuff about you your business more not! But what are the other two library attacks? The other one Let me see and one where when I was bill in the large and the head had a plain commander was full of. lumber and before that I always liked bring my party for with me and so

the plane lands and a pilot whose rope wrote the front for the mind now, where we taxi up to the bank's air. We got got got out and we were unloading. Lumber and all of a sudden he said lookout and I turned around and every blackbeard had come over the bank and was coming down on onto a sair. You know and and and then he stopped it would have if it was a false charge and then I'll, then he turned around and went back up into the shed where we kept all the horse feet and that's what what he's doing so anyway. Jeff said you're going to be okay, and I said oh yeah, I got. Gub gub, my party for here it'll, be ok, so is ok, well I'll go and take off so he took off and then went search arrived from my forty four look and then everything man's

here. Where is it and come to find out? I had I had it underneath the seat of the truck and- and I just forgot got got to get it so I add no big deal you're using go up there and just yell at them, and then you know, they'll go away well went up there and yeah adam and eve, come stuck his head out of the door, he had shoot a hole through the door was eating or speed, and then he came chart, charge me and the old thing I had was a tree to climb up to the front right by the lake. So I skinny up the tree and he hit that tree and he tried crawling up after me and ah he made sure I was air than is and and he would as long as I was there, ok, he went back in and every time I would try to come down out of the tree. He

I hit it again in ash, god. Gotta want one point and I was having to kick him in the nose one time he actually got up there and grabbed a hold of my foot and was trying to trying to pull pull me down down out of the tree, and I was kicking him in the face. So I said well, I'm I'm just going to stand here to let him get get count comfortable and in the in the shed. So he went back in and there was a catch albin, and that was about two miles away. I knew it and it had a rifle in it and so at five. Finally, after twenty minutes, I'll never forget standing on the branches errand, my my instep just really getting sore. I just cannot attain more, so I jumped out of it now or never. I jumped down a man. I just started running for all of his work to the to this cabin, and I looked behind me and he wouldn't follow me so went there, it was a three o eight. He only had three shells for it

I came back up and I stuck my head up over the bank and yea sure enough. He was adair, eaten all the food that I brought in, but he took so much smaller. And I'm thinking to myself why maybe he looks smaller cause. I've got a gun now you know, so I want a hand to take care care of it and and then leaned a rifle up against the the tree and I started Karen lumber made. One load of lumber then came back out. Another load lumber a tuba sex on my shoulder and when I came up over philip all of a sudden, the big bear that had treed come around a corner started running at me and- and I just took the tuba six through it- real, quick and it put on the brakes. Trying to avoid the To a second amy time to grab the bride, Poland get thereby shoe to get the right there. You have it out. I have your areas really like well, big, may I got it not bear shrink pretty pretty funny,

I gotta- know now the third one dared to the third one. I thought that was two and three for that. there's, what was the innocent bystander always out replacing piling underneath the underneath? The barn was out there. So and got the pilot, and I was laying prone on the ground, and I had my head, my my shoulders down in the hole trying to dig out loose dirt from from the bottom. So I'm just at the lane. there there. Their problem must look when movement are anything danger of my shoulders and anna and then it Also. Next, I knowed sums. pollen. Maybe I was like whoa someone just grabbed a hold of me. Just like I was on a bungee cord. I started back to a guy to get the scars of my shins from it and turn around and and it was a bear-

all my leg. He was another bag and are yet another blackberries. He was back in orbit, but you know in his defence he just now that you know and- and I rolled rolled over and and just start kicking at him and he was as surprised as bio's and he dropped me like a hop data and took off through through through the woods. So he lived to tell about it. Yo yeah yeah, I mean, and it wasn't his fault I know I was just supposed to be dead was found out. Live is like ok, okay, I'm just kidding my bed and then there there was one other time time with a small grizzly and in sheep camp. I had during the spring. I had an end. This is one thing that I thought would really cool during spring I had I had brought my leg and they had to be met of act out of a lot with chopper and all that

So anyway, I go and they get to cast a set. The league and all that- and I ended up going back out out to the lodge cause. I knew he needed to be there. That was home. You know, and you said yo in the summer. You know there are bears and in the yard every day, just just about and you'd just get out there you get along with them. You know you, you don't approach and everybody gets I just find when I got out there and the first pair to come comes out on look at this a bear. You know- and I am out on the day He saw me and our sudden he stopped. chase and me and rant rain. Into the lodge and close the door, and he he hit the door. They got. It got out off the deck, and then I went back out and gan it. It was like he was going to may I led went away and that that happened like two other times that that summer, unlike why His bare so mad at me all of a sudden. Then I got sheep camp

and the hunters are out on a sheep and I'm I'm at a camp. I'm in the in the camp, the kitchen area we have set set up at the base camp. And also I see this little straggly grisly walk around the the outside of the weather port and I dont have my rival me so we're out of the same distance from tat, I run to the tent real, quick while it's gone over there? He sees me start heading over that way. I started over there grabbed the gun start run back into the, so I can get some distance between me and him back into the er kitchen area and next day and odessa low growth they had had got an, and here we should not be over whip with what my part I fell on the ground and then rolled over and shot at night. I stood like what is going on. Why are these bears Alison so mad at me, and then the light bulb came on its light. then dang, you,

like a wounded animal. I met a cast, I'm hobbling around. Oh yeah nature at it's finest. You know, and I thought yeah, that's what what what's going. nah I'm just how moran are seeing me as a as a you know: easy prey, wounded, animal yeah, at least that's my my theory on on the whole thing, and it just seemed like it it made sense to me all of a sudden, because I'm a nice guy. Why else would they like an old gunfighter man? Look, I don't about the gunfighter. So what that talk about how you got your off to start business by yourself and ride off on a horse and go maker, stared and start a large and that you're gonna guide out of balance, This doesn't have any more, maybe I dunno why I dunno. If it does or not to me on that knowledge to ask you, have you did she ever through all these years? Did you ever meet someone that it was like appear to you and you're, like oh

you've kind of done, the same thing that I have all these years and became buds with them or knew of them. I actually did one time and he's he's pretty pretty high profile. He is he dead now, but when I was doing my float float instructions I I I talked to The flow player plot flowed to meet him once, but yes, you gotta, you get a pilot's license, yeah dick dick print key. You know I wait ever since I was a kid. I admired what what he did his lifestyle, what he did by hand and drug everything, but in by and of course he didn't have any horses or anything, but he had just gone out to twin lakes and built a beautiful cabinet. There lived out there by himself and that's what I wanted to be. What I wanted to do. He was, I guess he was somewhat my inspiration. I remember when I first got to know him. I I read the book one one man's wilderness yeah and I met him and nice sky in world too. It wasn't like he was some kind of crazed hermit. You know that

you show up get off my lad. If you just brilliant other burberry nice person he's got older too, and he did that. I always get out fifty there's someone. I honour iron, I found out about it, but I stood there is like you can watch like ten minutes have alone in the wilderness. It's like a pbs documentary, some old dude, wash and gravel for his floor and whatnot makes a cabin yeah yeah everybody's dad likes that movie yeah man, so I found out about bomb through that that yeah, how you spell his last name, bunks right to protect, know how you spell it. same for I can t we all and K e buckings lobo antunes isn't isn't here an agent or summer, maybe eight in there. As your about because you're, like everything that you're say it sounds exactly like. so yeah yeah yeah he's here and I'm around I just really really enjoyed a mean that that that book I just laid

May awaken and a gnome, I had to sleep in a broom closet that would make my room so a little little room and I'd I'd re read my book, and that was when my favorite favorite books. I remember. So there you are you ride off into the woods to go. set up your own to find your own property and it was a that's when J hammond was sir donor and abandoned knows he's probably one of the best governors I'll ask as ever. and got a good reputation. Sure does he. He was ronald reagan, a governor, so yeah yeah. I mean he. He was all for the for the people. You know he want and of course, he was a guide. It was a pilot, the natives bush ready. Yet again a threat, but he was dead, sat on on every last and being able to have the opportunity to have their own peace will ask. I have no answer. He came over the land program called.

remote parts is a remote parcel programme to where you could go out. You could gotta? They they had certain desert. areas you that if they set aside for just for this program, you could stake up to forty acres and he had to put a forecourt and you had to pay for the survey and then and after the state approved the survey you paid what the state considered the fair market value. Now you got a discount, he had a fifty percent discount for being a long, long, long time alaskan, you got a discount if there wasn't a row to discount the wind power to discount discount discount discount. You are saying there is even a discount. I think your tell me this even disk for what it was a southerly or northerly exposure yet and that that that was one one of that and they'd listed the discounts, and you know that that I was given once I got the

kyle to do the land. I I was get gun. It had a percent taken off of the what they considered a fair market value, because my cabin faced north- and south south carolina failure to any everything. I added no power discount, no road. This can ride the long time. Last disco right. I want you to over the bridge pay for the place, so it ended up. There I didn't thought. I had up a lot more than forty acres with, but I stick as I staked a whole south side, my lake, but it actually only ended up being like twenty six acres Yeah I allowed forty model yoni sets. I was what twenty one years old. I have no idea what a forty eight hour, let that man is more lane and oliver. You anyway entered, and I was shaken at how I'm just a port trapper out. There I mean I don't have any money went off

almas plays on horseback yeah, just looking at a map right yeah that was before gps, isn't all that I just loaded up all the horses and and well well: let's go thou, it's gotta be over here somewhere, so we're snaking our way through the trees and all of a sudden, I kind of saw an opening in the trees. I said: that's gotta be the lake over there and the lake His ashes glorified be refunded real small grayling in oh man, grayling rainbow yeah, and so took the horses and started wandering over that way and one member I came out of the north are here the upper end of the lake and when we can't came out of the tree bright beautiful sunny day, there was a moose out there. This was ian in July there is a mousse au pair he'd be going underwater and he'd come back and lily pads dripping off of his antlers, and it was just one st of his eye. This is episode where I want to be. You know, and I wanted them southern exposures

the horses and I started riding around the other opposite side, the lake, but it was just all swampy and he had to. He was like then, what forty fifty yards a swamp before he actually got got to some dry land, and it was just really disappointed finally made the whole circle of it. Then I came at to the outlet of the lake and came went to the the only place where you've got dry land all the way down down to the lake, and that's where I went, went ahead and decide to stake the land and when I staked it- and I did not know at the time that it had that nice little bench- you know where the law lodge is now a pub but mow the lake. I didn't find that out until later, and it just ended up

heal all the planets, align and just kind of made a dream come true, so you stake the whole thing out and send your form off in the mail and you're sweating it thinking it's going to be a show yeah, but I figure. How am I gonna come up with thirty forty, fifty thousand dollars or whatever and I opened it up in the envelope and it ended up being six hundred dollars. Yeah yeah, that's what I'm talking about yeah I can. I can. I can scrape up six hundred bucks somewhere. They showed a couple of wolverine like a star dragon cut law, in dragon and with your horse, young build elderly whole out. Of course, I'm I'm. What walk and club nine I've got my own land, you know and the actually from lodge, is now you can't? Even you can't even see the lake as it was that that have ever heavily treed, so I started drop and trees and pour a man to starboard, lodge and you're just clear and land and just up

they were like star snowballing to start working on because you say lodge is like functions as you're hot large breadth. It's a cabin neared, basing our care, in an outbuilding in webster definition, it would be considered a lodge at the gathering place, yeah long as you have gear of other cabins, you built for years and build a barn and and plus I say at the lodge. So it's a lot yeah. like people here lodge, and I think that that kindly fake ie, you know the catholic faith for western, can largely we cut out little caribou moves out. A sheet metal in my area have flamingos pink forming, goes in the yard. That kind of thing it's like, like a bush care.

Man yeah, but very comfortable, rarely to have all the comforts of home and drink rainwater and it does have have an out and out, but the you know, for you know totally off the grid. I've got solar power within birders. We also not not have run. Generators does buyer thing refrigerator. Freezer runs up, propane yellowstone cos the programme being so narrow line. Now new onflow blaming you gave up on horses yet begun, the last horses and ninety five. It has dialogue well yeah and yeah? They were always just glorified pets. Anyway, they were worth their weight in gold in august and september other than that they were just a pain in the ass. You know that just a glorified pet and yeah, we I mean they. They all had personalities and we we, you know enjoyed embedded just stood. There stood the large using horses, all oh yeah, yeah yeah you

sent up all the logs and pillar for the larger in lifting lipton gap and a rope polo were you on one end or when one side of it and then and yes, I'd, have- will have all pop poncho to pull him up. Then you know skids from one side of the other know. How long would the horses last to during the like we're as a working phone in animal years, wise, ah well, I I had heard that I'd heard a poncho. He didn't die till he was like thirty something years old, so like dirty, he was pretty pretty tough. As far the you know, all the other horses, I'm not sure when they died. But when We we got rid of him. They were proud will be nine ten years old and they were still you know. Good good, rangy work, horses yeah did someone come get them or how did you get them? yet let me see ended up

Write them over to the other side of the up through re, pass up upon the other side there and then, ah, ah, we actually solve some of them to re rainy pass as well. Yeah, those horses- it wasn't just a one way ticket some of those horses made it back out. No, no! No! No! No! It was a one way ticket they they they never saw a town again, okay, so they stay in the books. yeah they stay in the bush. They just went, went to the other side of the alaska range, no wrote em over there. How did you learn how to build your cabin What's that old movie about the guy washing alone over there, I remember getting a book who should get what was his name Tom walker. You remember, though he had a in seven. He had a book on. You know a how to on you know to notch laws with how to work. You will yeah he kind of raw raw raw desire to buy, but Tom walker. He

It was actually she more noted as an as an outdoor photographer, but he did kind the same. Thank him and his wife went out and built a built up a place on the woods ale. They want to get get off. The grid live in the woods and he made a book about in a lot of pictures of Portugal. add picture that you know so prescribing in saddle nature and all that kind of oh yeah, yeah and and actually yeah it there there's nothing to it. If you pay attention to it, it there's nothing to it. You can make know,

intimate make sure that that YE cove the inside of your saddle notch you know. So when you compress on it that compressor together, real well and- and me I get I yeah you can do. Do the full suite ascribe pit which, which I didn't do I'd- lay lay the logs on the ground. So I'd have three logs on the ground: take a chainsaw run in between them to ah get get them closer to your to where they were, they were matching and then you'd put went up and then each scribe. Your saddle notch then Utah first rapper, with a with like a chic sheet rock knife line. You know that then you'd use your chisel and and chill out the wood and to the chainsaw to gouge it out and then rolled over and there it is eaten chicken with moss the old school way or harm. Now now I used strips of fiberglass, okay, yeah yeah. I didn't want to do the moss thing

better said then an there and actually you dan. They were now that you're doing that method of just run of the change of bar right right between window. Their close together and then than a year better, like yeah, you lot use law, log dogs to hold them together and do it again and longing eyes. yeah yeah, I logged out her there's a job I know there are bars that are hooked hooked at each annual drive, a man who holds the logs together, yeah yeah yeah. No we're not. when you talk about it. I don't want to present this as though you disparage your clients could certainly don't But when you talk about how hunters becoming more moral cupcakes, all time are you because you're compared to what you ve been through or you do you compared to other hunters from the past climb

yeah? I guess I guess I still still level school. I know what I went through. I mean a pillar there. It was rain and and misery yeah and and I'm in I'm not in note those days there were no police or anything either. Wool or blue jeans. You know, and and may I hunt and blue jays- that just get wet nights, stay, wet and just didn't care and eva is just cause. I don't enjoy that now, but about the time I did that didn't even even think about it, but it just all wet all the time, yeah being aware, all the time or having to through the alders or in a year.

why waterfront run off your hat in the nonetheless of her ever bothered me and a lot of the change changing or hunting has changed a lot and yet the the ultra traditional hunting ways, and I cannot for some reason to blame it on the scent since electronic age is kind of kind of taken over. It's just things have just become too easy. You know for for, hunters and a young there's a couple of forces at work workin here too to you to the these hunts have gotten aware there so expensive. Yeah, there's some some of the guys that ah the can't afford to go home without having been successful on on their hunt. You know simply for the fact that they couldn't afford to do another. One they've saved all her life. To do. Do this, and

and so they they want to see you. You got some of the more expensive stuff, we do yeah sheep sheep and and moose most now it at its ground ground to be well won't want to hide our hopes and court brown barriers to so The guy's save up the whole life yeah. And so that the whole yoga The pressures on when it when they come up not joy, enjoy their hearts. joy. There are whole surroundings go out and and and just u legitimately hunt. The animals look form They need the animals to be there. They can't go home without one and enforce love life people there. The loggers, far blue blue collar workers than that A kind of money is a lot of money. Tom then now,

How in the world can they go home and faced a family face a white faced her their friends with them thanks? and you spend all that money and you didn't get anything young girl, What are we gonna? Do a different set of expectation exactly right here and there, and then there Then there is the other forced to that. There's a ones that the that kind of money just pocket change. You know they They leave now date if cocktail hour jump on a plane, yo two days later, they're up there and are shooting at a pre designated sheep. You know when it's already been picked out for 'em and and then they shoot the sheep the next day, they're right back down to cocktail hour. You know with with their friends. So

If that person doesn't get a sheep, you there's the humiliation factor. How am I going to base my friends and tell them that you know I didn't get a sheep, so a lot of people that this that the fund has got out of gone out of the honey, because the pressures on for them to beat me six as for now, there are the technology issues, but I get older and you're back at meghan days, viper started to ah the plane dropped. You off, you wave, bye, bye, said see and in tat ten days and now you got all you ve got in reaches you got the satellite phone you ve got. The gps is a proverb everything I mean you can't hide anymore. I mean and

It's a thing we're all we're not seeing much. We need to call somebody to come in and either move us or look rounder, and you know it it it's it's too easy to quit it. As in the old days, you you, you were there, whether you is there yeah you're at any of the other. If you get if you're sick, I've had a hunter recently that the after two days he was see and much so all of a sudden. He was second, he need needed out and

just as soon as he got out. It was a miraculous change. He would just fine, you know I, but I I I guess guess the point being is that it's just it's is too too easy to give up where it yeah back back before the electronic age. If you have this disability to to come out to call somebody to come, can come in and get ya either hunted or you're sat there in your pouted so what was she going to do? And then, and and it's it's a if you're, if you're not seeing much, you know you and you just keep on it. I mean you just don't quit that eventually it's gonna, it's gonna, gonna gonna happen so, but but I feel, like you said, I understand you're, saying two different things, but I just want to clarify the two things because on one hand, you feel that it's gotten so expensive, where a sheep hunt a doll sheep hunt if you're

if you're going to need a hired altvater guide, darcy ponds, what well over twelve thousand dollars right. Well over at where we're on the lower end of the scaled up. Tia and the price of sheep hunts were probably about average to to a lot lower end. Are some sheep hunts that up and these outfitters and they they have a a complete air force. You know a super cubs, so they have to pay for a day or so there. She punched gonna, be a lot higher or they're going to be up front Twenty five. Thirty thousand dollar ring whoa yeah ten days, yeah but matured in the, and they do a lot of pre scouting. Yes, before the season, yeah and and yeah and, unlike I'm like a big going to people to them, I mean if, if they have

the ability to have the and some some something had to pay for all those airplanes. Somebody had the paper and they're catering to the people that that they will not take no for an answer. You know they pay for sheep hunt to go get a sheet, and with that I guess that's a question I want to the they don't understand you're saying that with the money people com and they have to get a sheep or else humiliate them or or out only horrid thing of ego thing and they geiger sheep in the haunts of failure, if they haven't yeah, there's one. On the other hand, you're saying is too easy to quit, yeah. So how? How do those things coexist? they they have to get a sheet, but then they don't have what it takes to get the sheep and then they feel disappointed by the experience exactly so then, when bad happens then their having to pass the buck to somebody you know so so there

it's a well. I didn't get my sheep because the river hi, so the out better should have had me going under what window water as high or I didn't get my sheep because There was no man is in camp from my sandwich. You know, I mean it and I'm serious here that I mean that does not come up with all these ridiculous little raised by the whole house was a fair neck but all these little things that culminate into one big thing to wear yellow the hunt hunt was a failure. They do and it lathers stupid at and instead of being honest with themselves that they either physically weren't able to do it or it was. You know beyond beyond their physical means to actually do it even of the outfitter provided them with a good sheep area, provided with a fair, fair chase hunt,

I yelled that we had a tough first couple of days. We didn't see any sheep. So obviously now you know I've been here two days and and I'm an expert on the sheep movements. Now we have aren't going to be no sheep here. Ya get me out of here, at that an end is just all them going back and commence in them, people that that they I didn't get their animal because they themselves had quit on it. It was somebody spot feel that it's like that. There's something's happened, words different than it was twenty years ago, yeah, because you have spoken of different versions. Yeah I made it.

Was he didn't? Have the you know and not not a when you're in those days when your goal going out yet pretty much put everything in your back and and you had I had to go. Have a lot of the year and expectation, then it it they they they went in knowing full well that that they were going to be miserable for ten ten days. But you know they were gonna hunt where now it said to and now with all the new equipment with all this, and that you know that everything's yo, perfect people feel like they solved the part, yeah and and and people feel like after having spent this money that they have bought dish. Animal know it just the whole. I dunno it that David there's too much

this thinking that these animals are gonna to surrender because they they know they pay this bunch for this. But you still like the business, though we add I don't even want to know what we want to book a. How would you can't even book out with you and ended that best, I'm not or all hunters either that there still the the hunters are out there that did that yeah me network? They could be millionaires, but but that's No one can get away, get get out there, and so do it dude the fair chase. They don't want a plane to fly around in a spot that they would they. I find that sheep on around. They want to be the one go around the corner. Hey nobody help help me find them in their guide and dont. Nobody help us find a sheet We hunted it on around gimme, a beggar granola bar. Let's go out there, let's hit it. Thus, let's

the sai wash up on the side of the mountain. Let's, let's, let's sleep underneath a tree: let's sleep under the stars, you know that in this day and age, I'd say: mets, maybe thirty per cent of a lot of the hunters you get that are ashy and when they get good or I'd say, probably seventy five percent of the hunters now once they get their their animal. It's up. Okay, give me back to town, I gotta get home yeah they're, still that a good proportion of 'em like what we get yelled at. I don't want to go home. I want I'm, I'm I'm on vacation. I want to stay stay out here, but but those those and the punters are getting further and further away. You know, in your mind what makes a good client and what makes a good hunter a good, a good client. It is at one a and

Is gonna go out there and and and realize that everything is not going to be perfect, there's going to be time and again being comfortable can be times when when it's gonna gonna rain is going to be ties, yadda yadda, in dealing with with some some of the elements- and you know more more Nathan, it's a yeah deep daily that they're going to have to deal with elements that that are going to be uncomfortable and they're going to have to realize her there's going to be times when the game isn't going to be in particular, isn't going to be?

is plentiful. I mean there's no fences around front runner on these airs. They have to go in there, not knowing that that they're going to have to hunt for their animal animal's not going to commence surrender. So what makes a good hundred and you're mine? I want one that- and his hat has a positive attitude at every day and that when he, when he's out out there, there hunting hunting, he's he's happy and just and just have a have having a great time and not you know not stressed out,

If they can. I've got to have this animal and you know when when's it gonna gonna happen. So the content you feel the contentment pays off is all that yeah yeah, the hundreds of wakes, are whitewashed. Out of the tent. The morning looks around sees where he's at sea the mountain, whether it be in you know, most country wears you're, either in a swampy area, but but yo you're outdoors at at there there's more to the hunt that killing the animal. You know and do you feel like optimism, helps get animals killed. You speedy on his language. If you say yes well, made optimism, help battle I don't know if it draws the animal in if it oh look, there's a happy person, I'm going to go talk to him. You know, and another thing like like But you know I mean I think you just said it. Private Jani mean prior to that. You say that, like you, gotta have a good

Yeah, I think an attitude brought. Maybe there is just some something out there that the europe that is mixed, horses, yeah personal rewarded for goin out there, but I have had a positive attitude. Person is rewarded for going out there, just enjoying be in any outdoors and end up in an admin maybe that attitude to that the natural some get out there and hid it harder and enjoy more nice beacon, yards language, because yanny believes that the tell him toby, we believe, I believe lot of things key narrow down over how you feel that the you're, not sure what the controlling mechanism is not sure like what forces in the universe control this. But you feel that.

Radiating and optimism Now I feel, like I've moves in directly coral aids to your success because you out there and, instead of being like probably this issue today and walk into the world, not be no not like now expecting to see something over next, so not being ready to seize, and you have an extra not being bike all constantly thinking like. Oh it's about to happen. It actually being ready in the moment and end like foreseeing it in your head. Just like they say like you, you ve never done something. If you run that scenario through your head gazillion times you gonna perform better when that moment habits costly in your head being ready and being positive, because if you have wake up and to look at your tango, probably amazon issue today. Well, guess what probably not probably not?

he noticed he had. He he really set a mouth or I may diabetic, is on the subject. Has really does it feel that way? Some such some and you know it. It kind of affects everybody in camp too. You know, but when people have that attitude yeah it it can kind of a slough, I fonder, the guide or whatever that you just kind of get a little discourage some time, but keeping that positive attitude at it seems like yeah. Maybe here's where it falls apart, Well said the sheep on earth, whatever together a squirrel hunter and he's like so even so optimistic that these I'm not leaving the tent I know. I know that if I sit right here, looking The door there's a sheep or come up here needs

dumb, AP yeah. You know you are a laugh at that. That's probably actually happened, and it has happened with us, a few time where we've got lucky doesn't happen all the time, but everybody's got those stories. Oh, I know yeah, but they're so far and few between but janis used to when janis was guiding, he would have to give. He would give pep talks to try to maine. He took it upon himself to maintain the client to to to feed the client the type of optimism that he felt as necessary to articulate it for him. In a word, I thought so pretty you back there little pep talk for me. For that reason

the current every ran out of that isa, gallo to you, you'd be lost without you, he keeps yeah man goods. I got here, asia and every now, and then I beg of you you are if he got out of the biz, I'm getting out of the biz and you already got a job but I'd. Let you You know you're the only qualified candidate I got a job, maybe were hidden last outfit, knew so well say someone wants to come home with me, the kind of should our lot grope mostly went away too twenty thirty or whatever it is now. Now we get that we used to get openings here here and there, but wheezy pretty much stay booked up on the average hail Oprah for a cup couple of years and beyonce I mean we've got hundreds at brighton out are booked out into

to that end, twenty two: how do they know they want to be doing and twenty twenty two I don't know and and that's actually what I asked his guy said. This is like two years ago we can, we can be dead by them and of course we have no need to put a deposit down the whole over these five years or for years. I would like to go. cheap, I'm in abattoirs, lead are used as a wire Why are you doing this now? He said. Well, I just want to walk in a price now, and you know it it's a good thing. maybe they retiring yours on them now Oh, so you honor that if he books it now yeah even in twenty twenty two, he gets the price right, yeah pay books in two thousand and eighteen for the year. Two thousand and twenty two I'm going to honor that too, but

be divorced or married alone. What are known as a horrid things could have also contains. It could happen to me to go what's mostly cause and that these big increases in the prices this gap and I think general coke as they can. I mean people pay them. You know, and just the ah and then I I do do the shows and and yeah there's a lot of this kind of can't believe how much these punts cost. Now you know, then they they keep going up and say yeah, I know, and and and and just if you don't keep up, you know, keep with the the going trend. You know the going price and then there's something wrong with you as an outfitter and that why archie charged as much you know sometimes the wrong exactly you don't no one wants a bargain basement so that nothing, I'm I'm greedy, I'm just trying to stay with it and I've had other fighter.

After six months, a man. You need a break, raise your prices because they see that and of course there are no. They don't want a quality outfit or given away a cheaper hunt. Have you, I think you told me this evening. Last year you ve lost your taste for hot and personally and ass. For my taste, the right I'll be with you my guide and more than you like hot now. I just can't lost nearly enthusiasm. You do nothing yet the enthusiasm. I guess that bent a hunted so motion and just take our day and go through the whole.

whole thing, my myself personally, going on a personal hunt, and it just doesn't thrill me as much as it used to jet just like trap into a trap for years and years and years and and lobbed at nest, not that I meant now it yeah been there done that that doesn't really hold that much appeal for me anymore. There's a lot of times at the end of a hunt. I'll have our clients say: hey, you need to come down and after the hunting season and come whitetail hunting with us, and you know, sitting in a and sitting in a tree, stand at your twenty degrees in the midwest looking out over a corn man last thing I want to do is ill after after hunting for a full season go hunting again, I'm going to go, lay on a beach in hawaii or something yeah.

Where what age that started to fade, the enthusiasm fade, and I guess I I guess I really first noticed it probably six seven eight years ago, maybe not that that I'd I'd? If I go out and do it, I I I enjoy it and and make maybe it's because to that the I live that lifestyle Every day I've got I've, got it ending any day day of the week. I want so maybe it's just kind of a thing where I'm not the start, something I'm never going to be able to do do again. You know at an end or that there's times I get up just like we were taught talking about moose, I still get just biggest thrill about going out and corn and moose I mean yeah, we're all excited about it, you're all excited about our hunt. Right now. Oh absolutely, I am yeah. You asked about other people's hunts. The way.

Black about their own yeah. I know What you're gonna be seen when you get out there? I know where you gonna be the country you gonna be in, and you me knowing you the way I do. It is just an etf right up your alley. You're just gonna you're, just going to be pleasantly surprised. What you're going to see out there that the that the country to vary the route ruggedness you know of it of the whole thing, So how much longer do you think you'll run your business for the product till I die, I mean the only way. The only way I can afford to retire is if I die yeah, but how much money making offers birch balls you make may you must go they give away to people like you, yeah, always ordeal hit and we made up.

The deal today, we made up a little wager by which we would determine which of us got first picks out of the two bowls. But you already picked out the one you want, not the one I want, but I haven't picked yet and in our cause recent cause physical harm, the honest at all as a way of an eye? But then we may this side wager by which we determine who gets worse ball and the wage cuts fell apart. We're going keep to with it. When you have a box of cuts, girls off old growth birch and how was it out the beautiful, bold you're table, sell em online direct as though some deter shops backsheet yeah. He wrote really, though, thought about doing my own website with it and dude it'd, be so much better. His thing when you take that you take that beautiful bowl, the made up at your lodge. K and you breathe. Some tourists, shop and somehow or comes offer cruise ship and by you don't know you humans,

laurie behind it right? He does. then he dies this kid breakdown goodwill. We were, if you had it that you had a place resolve them. for more money. Also, the damn things for you. Where was like hears what the got. Here's the store, the guy that made this and here's. How are you knows about it, and this is a backbone. Damn bore the beware, better, because that way would be fallen into the hands of the undeserving year. problem is right. It is likely to fall into the hands of the undeserving. One of my guides been guided with me a bit with me per this would have been twenty third year, He makes knives now and

each lie. Is the european right yeah from Sweden yeah he ah every night he sells, there's a little biography with it that that he goes and puts, went with it and and tells a little bit how how it happened. Reality is his background. making, knives and everything and how the knife came to be and so yeah? I think I own that I don't really know if the ass foot yeah something but people are like the unlike their picture in how the all came into existence or keziah. Isn't it the whole backstory the like the birch in your area, happen have more of these well they're all their old roper yeah, basically out a barrage at just fungus. You know so we'll be out of the fighting hurry, eight of the borough

so as a reaction to the longest ride, yeah and an iraqi per purty rare. But but you know when you, when you find a birch, that's gonna have a barrel stay just like honey, mushrooms or something you stay right, and look around at the other birds cause. There's going to be probably other birds, I have have him, you know you'd be a pocket a burly, yeah yeah, because at that time the fungus all over have, though those trees net in that area, where kind of market these cruise ship tourist shops. What are they was the one it became a mark of they put on your birch balls. I have no. I I just know that is this like a they get thirty nine percent, where they come up with a figure. Thirty, nine percent- I don't know three nine desperate yeah, that's where they does their maya

syllables to sound direct with it. Then there was one time that I have this guy to make me mason neither talking about he. He talked me into getting a booth at the Saturday market there- and I I just finished thirty balls later. Ok on an alt right and I'm thinking, I'm gonna have had to go there and just sit there and- and you know, maybe one or two bowls or something but went there and saw like twenty five with old balls just in one day just dislike that few hundred bucks a piece alma moore yeah, but I mean they they they went just like. I was amazed at the at the reaction of it but see that's acceptable to me to do it. There yeah and some guy that have a cruise ship and it was it, was fun to and and but yeah I've never since that time and been able to get ahead enough with that that that that model,

john amatory hummocky make an ear. I mean if I dedicated myself, right now I should say how many do you make in a year and back before the fire? I I've been recently consumed with the last few few years and and do some rebuilding at the lodge after fire, but I could probably have, if I dedicated to just going full time on making bowls I'd, probably at different stages, about one hundred hundred and fifty in the summer. Probably I can do if so, if you had to give up moose hunting or give up carbon birch balls, which would you pick give up moose hunting or give up birch bowls, yeah

Well, I don't understand why I would have to give one of whether you love god came down and put a gun to your head. Said: ok, damned if you do a damned, if you don't. I guess I've got a question. I guess I will just have to give up the well yeah, because it doesn't make any sense to me like it's like a loose and come back and make a birch all the same, it hurts me appears very of call the questions, its western, the question, but yeah I died. I suppose I would give up the idea that the moose learning, what I'm sorry that I just really enjoy make making those balls there are few evolve. Man, value works of art and cleaning and I like it, look at, and I think about it. Look if you think about,

You in on the stories you told me in kind like your plays, no big pile of pearls, May I remind you, saw him to the day when you're at the other day. What do our view member this first? I went out to your place, there was a moves shed antler land right, daisy, very park, your plane, yeah upon the the and then, when you had the fire that, we're gonna burned up may did did that that is displayed that bert hard move, fail or charred moose anti would stay. The high haven't any remember this Then I brought it out, but events dried out endangers workshop that is displayed in a very poor, in place of my home like where well the war

piece of heirloom sort of furniture. The my wife has from her family is, I came over to call it. our more slowly, I use lightly. in our muar war, its up on top of that and other people to buy it for me. But why may. I had three, these giant moves sailor man, you look at it and you like thank you also for poses a crazy ailer in the way it goes that weird- older. I dropped insults like an hour it it's like a flame itself because it time holds up so that the panel, the paddle ray it is up to the sky, but it flames out in the shape of a flame in its flame scarred and bird and people coming and I just heard someone tried to bite off me why?

Why I mean my rises? What I'm doing the process sell my house, where was the appeal of that thing, to amend this crazy, look and beautiful it's like its found army and you know what you gave up and I want to back now say you might as well all your sheds into another building. The little man that was so sad but that they would we barn, went up cosette at that the whole upper barnes at the loft was just stack with years. Shed that I found there's there is a whole spine let them up in their value to sad. I guess I don't know from what they are bad men too. we want more more sentimental. They all the years of a shared another gone I remember I had just there's a hundred and thirteen of the birch ball tat. I had back in the barn diet that yeah. They were almost. I just had to finish injured the finnish sandy nano all open planes there again

talk about the great aunt or fast you suffered yeah I had then, they both shared and shot moose, antlers ned voice the coy stack of them. Yeah like like breads call it the pile of shame the pile of shit he and when I moved over to this house, they yeah they took up residence like unto thee. Even my workshop I'll use to wrap them around a spruce tree, stay below way of the damn ga find them on a major just in your travels out there, just traveling for work and traveling for hunting trips, and you know a lot of them were just moved side shot or at best people. Why, as care boilers and you name it get big pilot there's out there. We just walked in stolen ma yeah. Somebody came over the fence from the park out back and you know there's a market for them now for like the dog to trade, I now and it's been a hot ticket for theft around anchorage

and and I a friend of mine that lives right in the neighborhood here he had. Somebody came home from work one day, a guy and a ladder trying to take them off the side of the garage and hardcore Jeff. He got ripped off that that's who I'm talking to put a chain around, that one you've got outside your door up there. Oh every time I come home, I check and make sure it's still there yeah. I love that. I remember, hang a nice rat hand grenade up the house and the pin to the media. There they were. I died what year, one morning I was not draw the yard. Some didn't feel right. Look to whole piles is gone, just got how many of you asked me we're under oh, maybe like us, six or eight sheds and then probably it. Now more than that man couldn't care, there's, probably maybe the baby couple dozen sheds and then of price eight or ten. This you'll excessive

the girl is together on the skull play there were shot. You know just gone gone, some fair dogs somewhere tuna? You start, Yes, then yeah hardcore jackie, I interviewed for like a Pierre S, story that ran locally here on the radio about stolen moose alleys night got picked up nationally, reuse, the boy out, if he was yeah yeah, we, pack their bull out the got stolen his garage, and then yeah, and then he told that story about his buddy who got all ale or stole out of his backyard. Now as me, so that kind of famous story made the rounds yeah. So what what's your move? Sailors? what are they wear it? Would they are these people take like what will you say dog chews are they? Are they cause? Some are pretty popular for car I meant to I mean people can do the same market. I don't know yeah. I did the market where chandelier shit, the shit

either chandelier became vast will a novelist are like casting, Figures, but Antler chandelier years started to establish a market and then there's the asian aphrodisiacs thing to say that does around avail, but that's like like death, they raise. A new zealand. They raise red here: the harvest diane velvet I was lit living a every summer. They bade count come up there and aid, brain drain. The rain render her jan and a bigger law person and take take their antlers. Often there be a lot of the asian stance and run by them. I understand are buying them, isn't it and then a chew toy they'd just take the the byoc antlers and chop them up and like three four inch pieces, and a kind of sand badge is off duty walk in there.

At the site each little chunk each little chunk Seventy nine dollars a media programmes. We are different friend of mine. Cells. Ia debate makes a nice as every every year. Him and his daughter go up there summer, I guess thirty summer early summer about the haul road going, and they and they come back with truck load, a big truck truck load of shed caribou antlers to you Utah and that's what he does he just. He has a bandsaw just and boxes and boxes would eat a little cut up. What do you want the world you do with these, and, and he has these little packages and a little dog treats That's a hard working dog can get through carefully, and I know my way different ale and I know it and- and I would like, while which come up with an idea, said to go and trend with them, and I think it too. I think it's like, and I want to blame for this too much, but I think it's,

as those markets emerged and they became a d while value is my own personal theory as them gets, merge, the to toy the chandelier market, etc, their started to be a dollar value placed on antlers, I think it also drove interest in recreational antler pickers who does pick em Their own collections no brothers up before the same way like morales? I think that we would, market from morales or morals or like worth ecstasy for twenty five dollars pound third as pound up up and dried, you prizes, are they pay like oh wow, you'll find some of those and eat them, if they're that valuable exactly that it. So it's like it just kind of funny the way that the antlers like antler collecting in Five times has become just a bit to become like obsessive thing under their use. Justin. Just me,

I shall allow now latin there's this attention the drawn to remember and are considered a available fainting after he had once people walk, bears any narrow heads and soup oversupply. No air is looked at. beer can laner yeah. Danny galley last things you want to ask about comments, questions laws. it better be dropped in conversation. I am, I am very, excited to get out and they last ranging programme. your home turf, a little bit yeah. I call I call flight service to look, looks like we're going to have a good day for flying marsh. I'm actually going to get out good here is not how I envision but in my day now I'm not Well, I tell you what it is. It's actually a good thing, though I mean that was going to be this way that you're stuck here not stuck out there. You know on on the airstrip just sitting there.

Wait for the year. Oh yeah didn't exercise. Today we had nice dinner ping pong tournament, ping, pong tournament yeah, it's been fun dirt, yan yeah, final thoughts, it might be too long it into, but I'm curious with rebuild our as their been some nostalgia with rebuilding your cabin in decades after you did it. The initial build, I mean just the as there have been some positive out of that experience after the fire

actually yeah I'm in and out, and I was actually I should be able to build something to improve on probably what we have some of the drawbacks. I saw what I had before. I was able to put something up and and improve on about pub, but it was there, but I'd still I'd still much rather have have the old barn and have had a time that I've had to invest into rebuilding. I was I was just perfectly sounds bible. What was there but, but it is a ah at first it was overwhelming trying to start yo dude doing rebels like man. Where do I start and then now that I'm seeing the end of it too, at it, it's kind of rewarding and satisfying knowing it's almost done at home help. Now it's almost back the way it was, but man

Yet he lost all the stuff that it was filled with two oh snow machine. There are so many people and a right right right rightly so. You know after the fire they said well. At least you didn't loot lose the large, but the real value of the place. Wasn't the lodge and month in it the railway the place was everything there was in the barn and and the shed I mean as far as If you talk to monitor at the lodge what a gone up at it, just men a bunch food. bunch of dead animals on the wall that would burn up. You know that, but the barn and all the snow machines, the four wheelers, the airplane stuff I mean just on and On- and I I remember, member the after the fireworks were sitting out there on the porch lodge just exhausted way. Women pipeline it all night, and I thought man we got a. I needed something:

and I needed the chainsaw. I remembered I'm going to go grab a chainsaw jumping up out of the chair, running back to the barn and also oh wow. There is no bar no change in an area is funny. I needed a screwdriver The simple screwdriver by has screwdriver light later I need a screwdriver. I didn't have a screwdriver to to jet just a simple thing yet that I needed right right anyway. You know just the stuff that year You used to happen on hand hammer and all I had no here

I had no nothing. You know, I had a fork, the lady used to try- and you know, but anyway, that's all or you'll think you'll take the godhead to your friends, family and- and you know that that helped with with the brief rebuild to you know, there are a lot of generous people out there that that donated time and and money you know that family they they got together a benefit to help raise money to to rebuild and I'll I'll. Never forget that I mean that that was really something had everybody painted,

gather to help me rebuild the pounder, your call dude, but yeah I like it. I, like you, do hat dude. I like that. I wish you'd. Let me trade yourself for now the genuine hidden alaska of baseball care. I just want to save see if there's any any truth to all this resiliency about you know duties. He had a tremendous amount of resilience. Man, you'd think we'd call him rich ponder if yeah we'd come Chris Gill yeah there you go Chris gill yeah. What's the longest year stayed out there without without going back to town with, but six months Some members are like the use by

seventy, seventy six or seventy eight, maybe seventy five! It's when save the volcano saint Augustine blue, say I'm holding them all they held now, not now every augustine get. There is all ashen year in the air, let's of well known volcano. Let you out as I say, scheduled to come out in december after being under trapping, then that when the volcano blew all his ashes, airplanes couldn't fly, you know it. It was pretty thick and got stuck out there until february so, but have been september through February. I guess by your lonesome to yep.

I would have been perfectly happy. I mean we didn't, have any and didn't have any, or you know sweethearts in town that I was missing or anything is out there with dogs and horses and just happy with you, my everyday meat diet. man? I wonder you wanna Craig crazy. These are not always remember that that, still to this day, I just picture after that time to be out there for so long when you no woods you see, right angles. You say everything is symmetrical. That yorkers now come a that that there's nothing ever seen. This naturally complete right angle and I remember jumpin a plane and entered living out there jumping on a plane. All of a sudden. We find the anchorage applying over anchorage looking down in wow everything's friday.

They were always late, where we really isn't. It looks so unnatural, really surreal, which has really felt weird, yeah and and and and never ever forget thing. Why is it? It just looks like it look a science fiction movie or some and yeah and then just dami you'd just come from a world where everything round arab, you know. There's everything has has a curve that and I kept trying to think what what have I seen out there, That is a natural right angle and I couldn't come up with anything in nature that support. That right angle, why you like white, like the street and trails? You know you're the metal americans they like to their lives hard edge. Is you nobody, even though most the most, the native american group, All the structures they lived in round, stronger structures, no corners you can't leave ailing in a corner. Can can can you think of anything?

natural that dead, that's it nature that as a a natural, completely right angle, my tooth. to study the brain drain was there. We shall then tree no you're right, though and it is vital that we stumbled that, like culturally we hit on this idea, we really like corner bread It comes coincidence that we really like coroner comes from. Yeah just comes from a structural right, actually yeah, probably I guess I dunno, but it could adjust to it. hit me just really spooky downwards, not expecting the so see there I go into town and in altijd wow, it's just so.

bored. I went to a lecture one time by this. My concluding thought you gonna computers any there. I went to a lecture one time by guy who'd done these huge canoe expeditions like he paddle the whole nor shore, lake superior and all other crazy canoe trips. You saying who's asking the audience can only go out in the woods for we co everything. kind of slows down right in your senses. Pick up and you feel it Your hearing kind of either improves. because more in tune and new smell things, you don't smell, and there, sir, the you keep you kind of fall into. This slow or more contemplative deliberate rhythm over the course A week and you sand,

He says you know when you're out for six months still keeps happening at that same pace we're here and found the end of it yet then to read, which is something I think most people aren't gonna experience. No problem to go to see that quiet. Go there alone. For me, there was the terrorists tax My love not stop here, changed really change things for me about being gone, a longer trips, because you got this sense, we want time, went away where you didn't. Have The thing was happening there and you didn't want to be gone longer, predatory. It became like

became more aware of the fact that you might have stepped out, but the but the world moves still we went on a lot. We went out, float cheer for dear. One time when they are trying to settle the gore george, the gourd out, the gore bushel action and we they didn't know, we actually put off departure, wait to see how the election was gonna go. So we'd better go anyway, one flow trip got back still. Hadn't figured it out. Then he had and then their tax, and then it became like being as rarely being away was as different differ because you but that something had happened. But some horrible will things happen in you, two into it and in their cars egg wait for me and I haven't kids and then what have kids you goin trips Always this does.

Nagging sense that, like something would happen, bribe no legs, Nothing would go wrong and you and be there or or whatever, that that they, like you that became harder to force yourself from the sort of societal culture. We'll global momentum. There was gone. now it is man. It's like it's not difficult, feel happy. There the peacefulness still, but it's hard to. for me. It is hard to get the sense that, like everything, stopped here now. I have this like thing in my head that something good be happening. Something horrible could be had back pay right and you have no control over to this case

just the thing to like you know it's part of the falling from grace right to think about, especially with kids man. The, like I found that I The huge element of the huge element of guilt, the girls in the Having kids entails a good level of guilt to become on animal, self imposed, which is, I think that is governed by it, away no governed by a way with kids right, like well, it's not nice, but it is cause. It's like. I guess that's what keeps you on track cause. What keeps me on track. Different people have different things to keep me on track and it could be enough to I've talked about this before I think like it could be that I'm not using the right word there. What are they? the mai, all its gill, but maybe it's just dumb commitment here,

obligations, and I think I'm just articulating raw, maybe just like a sense of duty like you could do could make a sound better than than does. I think this vague sense of guilt, their sense of duty, sense of obligation so being gone different now. Now that target six months, shit either I'm talking quickies, oh yeah, yeah the last thoughts you'd like to add, but now I think I think, I'm about ready to ready to hit the rack and get up and get to get everybody out into the woods. sounds good to me, a man they give you sit down with you so long and all the evening ray I headed of heading blast with you guys, just the lap lot left to do data upon with you man, great dinner last night and then and then the saying the night first time.

no, you look hands and more cabins planet or danny or no accountants plan, but hell of salmon hooligans surreal everything No, no hush, Bobby's that the formula Those are the who again, he had the pride right, yeah yeah, I know other delicious, especially under brought fresh out there in the tail with crispy you yeah, have the trick is bacon those for a while, after you D, prime is that is that what you did then or yeah a lot of the grease comes out, and they crisp up real nice like that man, but yeah we eat a lot of them like that. My kids, especially just like I couldn't use it for anything, though that's pretty rang oil we've tried yeah yeah, I think there, the star the show really yeah they were all pleaser man yeah. What what was the fish with the longer ones then cause you had that didn't where there was a candle fish, Same thing, yeah are all hooligan here. Ok, I want

is so someone was fried right. That's that's! That's what the yeah yeah some were: smoking somewhere, fried yeah, this one's heather heads and there there are bigger fish that way, the the the fried ones they they have. The hits on today No! Yes, yes, user converge or I told you, haven't, got the older ones we frown. But then the yard, the kings. In chunks, and then I think he had halibut chunks, included yeah, I mean it's just a ruler. You know If the mortgage board budget- oh yeah, scams bladder man, Dave hooligan dip in next may get in touch, man we'll go out. I would let you know after having that that last Had already seen everybody gathered around a creek down there doing what's it what's up with this work, What about you? What do you know how another guy down there? They d take souls hooligans down,

so's hooligans down we're catch him, bourbon hooligans through the eyes of the interior, and then he takes the hooligans down and catches how the hell dossier were held in salmon on hooligans. So so it it's there. good bathers Harrington the real oily like herrings, I put out a good set, you know, but the the thing herring have all been on those harrogate that real shiny, flash dry, no other shapes this different. It's more like a harry is kind of a more usable shape. Yeah yeah they got that that real nice sheen. You know that catches this. When you see that herring spin, like when you're the man yeah, I know a lot a lot of time that I'd be here, we'd be appearing on there and I did look around it. save by one of these. If I'd wanted to eat the bait, my brother he he spent our other brothers, spends a lot of time down the bahamas fishing in the story about

If this guy down does law guiding- and he goes, with some you talk about it some italians our vision and possess squid debate, no ties like would not be the hope that squid. Why? Because do you know like you're not going for that diamond square, so yeah because we are not there yet another. One is octopus to octopus, make their base good bay, but man, they are sure sure good deal cooked me. Are you really like we ve ever weasel put octopus chunks was arm on help. Her second the nice. I bought models at the octopus will stay and look pretty easy to yeah yeah. That's the thing, though, yeah, we use less amand fence two men. They got to stay in their view, the skin and did it further

isn't a eager eyes real danger stay on you, you put a hearing on how the hook and then tippit with salmon fin We run into that cartilage in his basic, like a retainer hold your alderaan where'd. You come up with an idea. Some pretty cool can claim just if that were now Roger either you sell, there's been thought of voting time tonight know.