Ok, nice and inquiries joan going up somewhere in the students who away but the campus of the universe, few of east anglia, just outside of norwegian east england, is busy with a film crew. Ok standby, then action jason. They're working on a drama called the trick which looks at what became known as climate gate back in two thousand and nine someone hacked the emails of climate change. Research is based here and selectively leaked them online. It was just before cop fifteen, a major climate change summit and sceptics use the emails to claim evidence for global warming had been faked. It was a charge eventually disproved, but not before real damage was done this is the hack that change the world on the BBC world service on golden correira security costs

for the BBC, a job I was doing it. Two thousand and nine back. Then I didn't see climate gate is a story for me. I'm here now, because the drama is written by owen sheers, who came to me and he started work on it. fine. Thank you. in one of the classrooms, he tells me what first drew him to the story. It was his belief that the world is still living with the fall out the scale of the crime and the extent to which we all victims of it suddenly hit me the worst scientists scandal of a generation email show, climate change, scientists, massaged figures, hackers exposed global warming con, but ass. He began researching how climate It was covered in the media at the time he found something odd.

Pretty much. All stories were about the climate, science and the data, and it wasn't valid. You had the books. I couldn't find any security stories that were asking the question of who's done this, and why might they want to do this? There's a good challenge. It was a science story at the time the focus was all about the science and had people been playing with the climate change data will not and that's where all the focus was not on. If you like the the hearing in the security store which is old. Isn't it it's odd, but it also shows how successful it was. You know so people who were security correspondents back then kinda failed to do job. Maybe someone who will some would have an agenda here. Maybe I missed a trick then, but a couple of years ago, when he started work on these drama owen got in touch to pick my brains about a mystery who was behind the heck of interested

if we could get closer so the through looking at the possible suspects to really makko landscape of the. she's, who were aligned against action on climate change at that time, twelve years on from the hack, the culprit has still not been identified. So we have a mystery, a kind of cyber cold case which I'm going to end the gate trying to solve it will, I think, shine a light on the battle over climate change, but also show how we ve It up in a more insecurity doubt written world in which information is weapon, ized and expertise questioned and so one it might seem grandiose, and even though I may the story at the time. I want to tell you why I really do think this was the heck but changed the world So, like all good investigations, let's start at the scene of the crime, the university of

he's tangley is climatic research unit known as the crew. Why target this place? The reality is that the work that takes place here is at the heart of what has sometimes been a fierce debate about the future of the planet, and it relates to tree rings. Tim Osborne is the current head of the climatic research unit, so this is a call from a true zero included. The boundary between the different growth rings, circulars, the pirates and operates. Your ring of growth to most born- shows me how they measure trimmings. It's just one of the ways: the unit analyzes data from around the world about how the climate has changed over the centuries. The crew has been pivotal for making the case that climate change is real, yellow the measure of the rings. This is from russia a right of the color of the tree line, so that

attempts to record, but there are scattered fix. Ve questioned the science and the data, and our mystery attacker seem to be on their side. Phil Jones and in two thousand and nine I was the director of the climate research unit fulfil jones climate gateway down on what seemed like a normal I morning it for some, bringing me from new zealand asking me about my emails. I had no idea what they were. Talk about. He didn't know it yet but Phil James, and His colleagues, emails were already being scoured over on the blocks of climate sceptics, their webs where the social media of the day, vibrant and full of debate and argument. The sceptics had been

engaged in a long running battle with climate scientists about their scientific models, using freedom of information, request to try and get hold of their data. They were picking out. Phrases and the emails which they would claim showed the science had somehow been rigged to make the case for climate change, the university went into crisis mode and too senior academics took charge. They were hoping. The story would die a quick death. They were wrong. Got more intense, then after that weekend, and so we had some of the national press outside, and my wife was dealing with a lot of that, just then wasn't really up to it, the eu. elsewhere, mainly scientific, but at times spiky. With some barbed comments about the sceptics So you're having the media at your front door- and it wasn't just uk media there was some several european trees here in the u s, etc.

week of these emails has put the reputation of british science on the line its jobs as it is a part of a massive international scientific fraud. The academics found the narrative was being set by the critics who said rested phrases in the stolen emails, like the trick, can't hide the decline with signs of bad science. I always try to be a very good scientist over the years. I'm used to dealing with comments and criticisms of our work, but that's come through the review literature in responding to what people think about your papers when you submit them to a journal, but trying to do it with the media was just impossible. When they were asking questions about sentences in, we sure emails that had written ten years earlier, taking things out of context was the real issue,

phil jones, and you re, struggled to fight back and make their case they found. They had few friends as the academic ivory tower came under a attack from a new world of outsiders, organizing online, me, I got really low in her on christmas. Two thousand and nine there was a christmas card with a death threat in it. Saying things like when we know where you live? Should go out and hang yourself or there the media was majoring on the claims that the emails showed unsound science within the confines of the campus. The question of who did it hung in the air. We're whispers that the cia was on the case? Could it be an inside job? Other suspects will also in the frame, but as with any cold case, the first step is to go back Could the original investigation and I'm on my way to talk to the detective who's in charge? Aren't you

Gregory and I'm a retired detective superintendent with norfolk constabulary. If climate gates happened today, british intelligence would be on the case back in two thousand and nine. It fell to norfolk police. The case was actually pendant over the weekend for the safe enabled team to pick up as a product what would be a relatively low level matter. Safer neighbourhood teams normally deal with things like graffiti and anti social behaviour. This was something much bigger. During the day on the monday that I think a special branch got involved, I immediately have the sense that we were be something rather serious, this investigation continue. Judy Gregory was relieved that the media didn't seem particularly interested in his progress focusing instead on the controversy over the science tonight. If we can't trust this

It says on global warming than is any of the change they tell us is necessary worth the effort and the trick was revealed in an email to hide the decline. We never had. The kind of attention that you might have seen in other major investigations is actually incredible, and particularly, you know the implication, because we will go back to that Monday evening when I took the telephone call and the you know. The reason it remains with me is that sense that there were potentially some dark forces at work here and yet what we'll be dealing with, potentially where we are up against a particular country's intelligence service? This is two thousand and nine. If this had happened today, I think you'd have huge attention on who did it, but also you feel like there would be a lot of cyber resources to draw wrong, and you ve got the national cyber security, So did you know where to go to to get help to investigate this you're? Absolutely right? We are in a different age now, but back in two thousand and nine

using: u K Plc if you like, didn't, have a coordinated and significant capacity deal with beside crime, so we did have to go looking and it was hard work. some people- it seems incredible. Now they simply didn't get it. We didn't get level of support that we might is anticipated julian Gregory drew up a list of suspects. It was broad hypotheses at the the outset remain throughout. The investigation was that the perpetrators could be anywhere on spectrum from a single loan, individual alone wolf, if you like, with no particular affiliations right, the way through to significant commercial or even state interests serving with espionage we identified a range of attacks, they come from a variety of service around the world and what people do when they were because of their activity. They use what are known as proxy servers. So

relax it's a server in particular country or continent, and then through that they'll go to another one and they might help brown several before they get to the place. You want to go to carry out that the criminal activity. The benefit is that these proxy servers rarely have their looks turned on or if they are there, overwritten within twenty four or forty eight hours, and, of course, when you ve hopped round the world law enforcement, find it very difficult to work and pace this lock on trying to deal with the twenty first century. Crime within eighteenth nineteen said.

three system of international law enforcement. The only crime was under the computer, Monsieur sacked, and after three years the clock ran out under the statute of limitations in twenty twelve. The investigation was over. Closing the investigation with no successful outcome was a bitter disappointment and whilst confident we did everything we could still a small part of you. If I do my bit- and this may sound a bit over dramatic, but also about done the right thing by the world, because it out of the consequences of this, it was always my mind is that this is serious stuff in other potential inflows he could have on our futures was significant. The police closed their investigation without eliminating any of the suspects on their list. That means it's now a cold case one way to solve. One of these is to see if the latest advances in computer forensics might sir,

this new leads from existing evidence, so we try to find the computers that have been hacked but here we had our own brick wall, so one of the things we lead gang round. The campus today is No one knows where the original server is gone, that was hacked, it seems to have disappeared and a few people think it was white simply because of data retention policies, which is a bit of a shame because it might have held some clues which could have helped us a dead end so where next, at the time, one influential voice pointed the finger east russia. When this, when public I said, believed it needed an intelligence agency of the kind operated by a country such as russia said eva king was the uk government's chief scientific adviser, until just before climate gate and late its international envoy for climate change, his suspicion.

In two thousand and nine was based in part on bruising encounters with moscow over climate, several countries, in particular depend heavily on revenue from oil and gas. That clearly is a motivation for nine to stamp on the size of climate change. He also you about spies. They had been an adviser to our intelligence agencies, so I was aware of the capability they could beam through literally thousands the emails electronically. It was clear to me that the russian agency had that capability based. I spoke, You knew what you'd seen before you believed that russia, hypotheses it's plausible and you still do. I still do I mean all of the subsequent operations with Putin would lead me to believe exactly that motives, capable

He and ruthless but he's their actual evidence pointing to russia next step. In our cold case is to talk to some experts who can help followed trail century or what you might call modern private investigators online sleuth. To use data around analytical tools to solve mysteries. The new century team agreed to take a fresh look at climate gate, mine, he's believe I am the lead and telling us analysed for this case. If somebody verifies that there is a russian actor behind is then I think that it would be the first high with warfare attack from a russian acting against the uk in history and thus very interesting. Very significant us intelligence agencies have accused russia of interfering in the election campaign. President russia, except a lot more of my time now than it did in two thousand and nine sabotage?

the assassination and nerve agent attacks, and also what's cooled, hybrid warfare that include so called hakon leak. The most famous incident of this was in twenty. Sixteen, when emails belonging The democratic party and Hillary Clinton campaign was stolen and then published online. Russia's should this not be citizen thought that, with on state tv, the report saying america can't prove russian hackers interfered and president Putin Berlin wrote the nato strategy. On russian information laundering. That involves cherry picking. real information, say a quote from a politician and taking it out of context and spreading it through an array of proxies set for people groups who may not even know their being used. The parallels between This kind of activity, the twenty sixteen election and climate gator there, but what's the actual evidence of a link, a first batch of

I met katie males were released in two thousand and nine more from the same hack were published in twenty eleven and then finally, the full set in twenty thirteen. The last release was just after the police investigate closed, and this time there was something else up loaded with the file. An email confession, it's time to tie up loose ends and dispel some of the speculation surrounding the cloud with greater fur. If this email seem slimy disjointed is will remind linguistic background. That's right! No conspiracy, no pay hackers! No big oil through publicans didn't plot this usa, politics, alien to me. Neither am I from the uk. There is life outside the anglo american sphere over and out MR ford An email can reveal a lot of things off the person that is behind it, Failure is an acronym. There stands for freedom of information act.

in. The email descended identified himself as a meal into beetle that his mother, in which is not english conduct that dealing with forensics induce and I will will reveals that, first of all, he utilizes american english and not a british english or like grammar, check care that checks and corrects in american english and one of the Interesting beats. Is he misses, defended articles like this saying that he is very common in people natural from russian slavic languages. Writing in english so these in our hands and that points towards russia or eastern europe, but this was a hacker who didn't want to be found what if they were deliberately laying a false trail. Here there is another key with the emailed confession. The hacker published a bitcoin address for supporters to make donations

Any clues here, starting with a bitcoin account that allowed us to conduct analyses and see the transactions that had been evacuated to distribute going too. and there were nine payments. The first one was made the same day. That day, email was published, nor money taken out of the account booth. Because it's twenty there some puts in this money and bitcoins gonna since then says Bobby work worth quite a lot now as check at two hundred. Eight thousand? U s dollars! That's a lie, If money, it does seem remarkable that someone would leave two hundred thousand dollars in an account for years. Having asked for donations either they don't need the money or they really don't want to get caught. There are other leads which some experts suggest point east one is time

codes on files, the hacker created in two thousand and nine. It's been suggested that a five hour time difference from the uk might place, whoever made them in the middle of russia. Another is where the files were first uploaded in some cases onto russian service. The neon team pointed work of a journalist journalist, been following this particular lead time to talk to him next ego next ego, stunning, freelance investigative journalist, I think who did- the hack was the russian security services, used, be russian academy of sciences to cherry pick, the most damning things that they could publish an gotten to distribute are standing has in the past with beilin capped the open source investigations team that exposes russian intelligence activity. He says it was later russian activity that made him curious about climate gate and go back over the evidence does know

smoking gun. In my mind, the pretty sorted leads the two thousand and nine emails were uploaded to a file sharing server in thompson, russia, so that other people around the world could download them. I've been able to get in touch with somebody. who says they helped so have set up that file sharing server and what they ve told me was that this but was basically configured in a way that wouldn't allow connections from the rest of the world. That would mean that we have at least two files for the first time did so for me, russia or stand says he saw who told him this detail about. The original upload has now gone. Quiet caution serve as are often used upload material, but a stunning. Leaves. It was no accident in these cases, so don't necessarily know who the hacker was specifically. But what it looks like from your theory is that someone connected with russia built an infrastructure to distribute the files effectively there,

Definitely I mean there might be some room for people to say. Well, anybody could have hearts the university of east anglia, but is far more likely. I think TAT it was a russian operation from beginning to end. So is it russia, the need? century team think it could be someone in russia but a more cautious, including about whether this all points to the russian state. None of it is definitive, no it's likely. I would say I mean both analyses and the assessment of all the data that we ve had suggested is an attacker from russian or or at least eastern european or eating, my hypothesis is private individual behind attack. Did you stunning This is in contrast, involves something more organised with the state helping distribute the material. I think

you ve been the russian security services working with climate experts to process the emails and basically select the things that might be the most damning and then it stimulated through in the dumbest case, the inverse nap The case is circumstantial and focuses mainly on the distribution rather than the hacking. Would russians also upload it in their own country. Moscow is always denied any involvement in these kind of operations and cyber security experts and spies. I've spoken to say there is no evidence of russian intelligence, doing hacking leak before twenty fourteen. So it's tantalizing, but not conclusive, is another twist justice. We think our trail is leading us one way. Something pulls us in the opposite direction. The documentary is just one of our bbc world service podcast. There are many others, too cheese from he's, probably been hearing quite a bit climate change recently, but I've got a little secret for you

Climate change is not all about. Big conferences petitions and their promises and whether they are actually follow through climate change, is about how we live our lives moment to moment now and in the future I am your resell and I'm one of the hosts of a pod cast from the BBC world service called the climate question. Climate change, is the burning issue of our time and its happening, whether it's in the news or not. So the climate question is therefore you every week asking tough question. in a spirit of adventure, discovery, fun and ultimately hope We tell our stories in detail with leading experts, as you would expect, but also with people in surprising locations around the world from the high arctic to tropical jungles, from shining corporate offices to shanties smashed by storms. That's the climate question the BBC world service search for the climate question. Where do you get your book last night,

Let's returned to the documentary welcome back to the hack, the chain the world on the BBC world service on golden correira, just before the news. We learned that one of the clues pointing to russia, as perhaps being behind climate gate, may not be as clear as it first seemed. Remember the time stamps on the files created by the hacker tim Osborn. The current director of the climatic research unit has been looking at this and says the specific technical details actually suggest. Whoever stole the files was not, as many have thought, five hours ahead of the uk in russia, but five hours. The other direction I apply of actually have access computer might have been in this case of eras or this coast, canada, somewhere in the time zone five hours behind the uk. That is one thing you could ask whether maybe the hacker did

deliberately, maybe they sat with timezone on that computer wrong to third place or anybody else off trial, but the fact that this was discussed online. At the time a man in the second released, two thousand levin hack. It didn't name my files in that way, that suggestion, maybe they will automatically have you realize that given a wire slack clun and try to do that a second time, so I think that that might suggest that perhaps already was in times like five hours behind the uk. So yes, eastern canada is the nearest night, perhaps So, let's now look at how the emails were used and who made the most of them, male stolen from the university of east anglia in the uk were released in november, two thousand and nine just weeks before cop fifteen major climate change summit in copenhagen? Let

Hagen, be remembered for the spirit of sea constructs, illness and cooperation leading to commitment and consensus. This was a key moment. Let's get it done now. Thank you. The debate have been shifting, but would governments act, climate scientists, professor Michael man, from pennsylvania, stay university has been an influential figure in the field. For decades there was this sort of euphoria, two thousand five, six seven among climate advocates, the media seemed he treating the climate crisis with greater urgency and moved away from the false balance that we used to see where they felt they needed to a climate change denier, along with the climate scientists during any interviews about climate, but man also knew that there would be a push back a mourned. It was coming

there was this feeling of this creation of attacks against climate science. Seem to be aimed at forestalling progress at the two thousand. Nine copenhagen climate summit and sure enough. That's exactly what we saw the email hack in the so called climate gate affair. Copenhagen. Some countries were quick to use the hacked emails. The first words out of the saudi arabian delegate at that copenhagen summit, was that these stolen emails reveal that the science of climate change is complete, We are untrustworthy, it did have. An impact clearly was used by those looking for an excuse for inaction. as a reason for inaction. Man's view was that as well as states like

sure and saudi arabia, whose economies depended on preserving fossil fuel use. There were all so powerful corporate interests at play, another of our suspects, the fossil fuel industry, the most powerful at the time wealthiest industry on the face of the planet. They weren't just going to roll over The copenhagen climate conference is ended, but many countries are outraged and disappointed. Looking back almost there, one would say? Copenhagen was a failure. We have to be a little careful here. Those involved will tell you that it fell because big powers couldn't agree rather than because of climate gate, but that's not to say it played no part and the imf. I have only just begun, the of so called climate gate continue, not least because of all the uncertainties following the copenhagen summit, it all cool fund.

In early two thousand and ten and that when the real damage was done, board is head of polish yang communications at the grant them research institute on climate change at the london school of economics, sceptic bloggers were the first to work through the mass of emails, and it was their interpretation. And the claim that the case for global warming had been exaggerated. That would then be picked up further afield took a wild eventually spread into the mainstream media, and that was where caused to other damage, because the scope blogs. How very small audiences, but, of course the mass media reaches a much wider range of people and gave these stories more credibility. The night deserved. So I think the sceptics have lost the argument:

but they may have won that particular battle, which was more a propaganda battle and they successfully casted doubt in the minds of some people on the science and to some extent delayed action which could prove extremely costly in the long run. But the emails had the most impact, not in the uk, but in the u s he is a b senior use in december. Two thousand and nine sceptics of climate change suddenly have plenty of new fodder. There is increasing evidence of scientific fascism, that's going on there seized on this too they try to bring a wrecking ball. Powerful. U s. Lobby groups have a long history of using cash to influence political debate. Sometimes secretly, Jane mayor is the author of a book old dark money, there's no issue that demonstrates the power of dark money in america better than the issue of climate change, the old

a reason really. Anybody can give for why the united states has moved in the opposite direction of the rest of the world. On the subject of climate change, and Nothing about it in congress is because the amount of dark money, and lobbying money casting doubt was I'm not a new trick. The forces right against climate change were following an established strategy. The fossil fuel industry learned the tobacco industry, which staved off reform for many many years by creating doubt about the science and what happened after that was just hunter. Civilians actually of dollars were poured in by the fossil fuel industries to try to create confusion on whether the science was real during the two thousands. The battle seem to be turning against the industry, with plans in congress for tougher new laws to tackle climate change in two thousand and nine. It was at that moment that the emails appeared. So

climate. Get you had a real impact in your mind, have tremendous impact. They were basically screaming hosanna? been a miracle sudden. There are all these emails that we can use to attack the scientists undermine the idea that climate change is real. Big oil certainly had a motive. Its top executives were recently by congress over their role in spreading climate. This information, the hearing, was prompted by secret, recording obtained by greenpeace of an ex on moby a lobbyist, suggesting the oil giant had used underhand tactics. Did we We fight against some of the science. Ah, yes Jimmy joy, some of these shadow needs to work against some of the early efforts. Yes, that's true! So could these groups have been behind the actual

they used a lot of dirty tricks. They did things like they joined up fake letter Two members of congress pretending that they were constituents who were really mad, that that man congress we're going to do something about climate change and they turned out to be fake letters, fake groups, unreal people, but as far as I know, nobody's really nailed down the who the culprits were, there's no direct evidence. We can find that points to a court protector doing the hack itself, but maybe that's not the point, says Michael man into me with almost less interesting. Then the question who We did the hat, who use these emails as a basis for a massive pr campaign, a collection of american lobby groups and think tanks made use of the emails these groups down say we are actually front groups for an industry which what they really are. They don't disco

where their money coming from. If they wanted to be up front, they would say in places like the land institute well, we are funded by I'm industries that directly benefit from these policies and would be hurt if there was reform, but they don't say that it's time to talk to one of the groups who was still making the most of the emails. I'm James taylor. I am the president of the heartland institute. The heartland institute is a free market? Think tank based in illinois, we're not skeptical of climate change? We are sceptical of the nose, they were facing a climate crisis, it so the data on the evidence of because are concerned about proposals. That would significantly restrict personal freedom. Islamic freedom and drive up energy prices wages. Your funding come from, I mean have you taken funding from the oil and gas, the energy energy groups, in the past. As far as our funding the heartland institute, we receive

Funding almost entirely from individual donors who have nothing to do with any business or industry that has anything to gain or lose through energy, I see your climate policy etc. Cheetah receive funding These kind of energy groups x on mobility, have you done so in the past yeah. We receive very very little forty, We received in the past. We received very very little it's fair to say that James Taylor took a close interest in the hacked emails. You read the emails, you TED I mean. Did you read all emails? Yes, it is a lot of work. It took a lot of time would you say you were quite able to I have used them quite quickly in making your case now, while I certainly wouldn't characterize it as using them to prove my point. If the information is out there, which it was out thereafter climate gate

Well then, I think it was important that people understand and see what's in those emails never ends it was a gift for which he was now you don't look a gift horse in the mouth, as they say when considered a gift. Not that It wasn't my thought or what was the impact climate gig had from your perspective? Why think it opened up the eyes for many people because we are often told it. While you know tat This person he's a scientist trust this person. Don't trust this person just because there are scientists. That was the message. It's one that continues to echo. His donald trump in september last year refusing to accept the site, global warming as he meets California officials battling record wildfires in the state. We're seeing this warming trend make our summers warmer, but also our winters warmer as well. It'll start getting cooler. I witnessed aegis

I wish science, if anybody think science knows actually tom. Mr president, if you my claim that this was the hack, the change the world in one sense revolves around the impact on the debate about climate, so in doubt, and delaying action, Jane mayer. It was a game changer. It is one of the great unsolved mysteries in politics and it's something applications for the direction of the climate fight which really affects the entire planet would swine. Some ways I mean it sounds a bit grandiose, but I do think of as the hack the change. The world is right, it is, it is to have to change the world, but its significance is about more than just climate, important studies. It also foretold a world of doubts and scepticism. Let's go back to when it all started its a too

they november seventeenth, I'm in the marina district in san francisco steve motion was one of the sceptics. I'm in a coffee shop. The microphone ring and it was my roommate charles rotter, now, Charles, was the moderator of a sceptical site called what's up with that, and we call me Let's give you need to get home, I so why? What's up me so well, Somebody just sent us a link to a bunch of emails. from sea. Are you Moshe was one of a group who'd been trying to get hold of data from c r? U the climatic research unit at the university of east anglia. He wanted to pick apart. climate models to see if they stood up the battle over the science had become vicious and personal. How bitter did that fight get

you know is frustrating that one is also kind of fun. Like a puzzle, you like, how can we catch these guys like? How can we get him once we found out? They were subject to freedom of information act. Then it was. I, who led the dogs out a year or so before. The hack motion had dinner in san francisco with a man who had been relent leslie pursuing access till you yeas data, I'm still I can tyre I've written the climate audit blood for both fifteen years, but I just thought nobody has actually done a thorough work. The creation of this study I'll, do it Mcintyre felt the kind I took research unit were obstructive. They thought he was out to get them and waste their time battle intensified and then the emails fell into the hands of the skeptics. Moshe call me up and read me an email

bunch of emails firmly in the dossier, and so he asked me to come Burma, whether that was real or not, and it was so the first. I heard that some of you yet Private emails were pretty caustic about the sceptics and revealed their resistance to fighting them with information, but ass. She began sifting through the emails looking for ammunition. His first doubts emerged like putting emails into garbage and tasty you like. Finally, I'm say like what am I doing You know this is not science like nowhere in all of the philosophy of science. say. If you want to know whether a theory is true, checked the guy's, a male check, his dirty laundry, the mystery hacker necks, try to buy into and publish the emails on the block of Gavin schmidt and nasa climate scientists.

close to you. We are likely to try embarrass so troll him. I downloaded this while thinking What is this? You know? You start looking at it and then use I see that it's like attachment and emails, and things are that associated with the young university. We stand here and I sent an email to the folks who mentioned the loss of phil jones and TIM osborne, and I said, have you guys been hacked and they said well duh. I don't think so. We struggle to work out what to do the bloggers, dissection of the emails, picking out loaded phrases and there Interpretation of what these meant hit, the media and around the world. John science, and it is a part of a massive international scientific fraud. The clamour, I research unit was in the eye of a media storm its director professor, fail jones

when contemplating suicide as he struggled to defend his integrity. So, given that you were the first to receive the emails, do the bloggers know who did hack, steve motion started off thinking. It was someone at the university of east anglia, but is now less sure beginning. I was like eighty percent confident that it was someone inside but as time went on, a more convinced that was someone outside, because We see you aware there are different theories russian one is just like really stupid. The link was put up on a russian proxy server, so that led a bunch of people to think of the russians. If you go to the list on the dark web, where proxy servers are listed. Russian servers tend to be like the most frequent. I was If a hacker down one day, tell me more Did you do that? Will work? he made a comment at a website. I was able to get the ip address

I did a search on man and I found a place on the dark web. They had a list of proxy servers that you could, if you are a hacker, he got his father, where's tracing the hacker to an electronic device in china likely used to mask the hackers, real location. Meanwhile, steed Mcintosh has his theory. The climate gate hacker was a lone wolf. Partisan reader of the climate blocks mcintosh, follow is had already been scouring huey. I websites for data looking around the universities network, upload. My readers mentioned to me that they had stumbled into back corners of the university network that were so clearly private but unsecured. My theory of the climate gate. so called hackers that another reader took a different approach,

hey similarly fell into a expose section. the university website and then kept going back. Dismiss dismisses the idea that a cooperation would have done this. The theory that this was done by some fossil a corporation. Just it seems reasonable on multiple grounds. Corporations don't like to break the law, regardless of what academics think or fantasize and the idea of somebody coming into a board room and sang want to disrupt copenhagen by hacking. The the university of east anglia say that no doctor man, which you its laughable and no corporation, wanna. Do it they don't want to get involved in that kind of illegality and even if they did

I would you go at the university of east anglia committed itself it's like a Michael myers skit from austin powers. He made a like yeah yeah. You think it that talk of shadowy forces from the oil and gas industry is is just that. It's fantasy. The fact that the emails were sent first to skeptical blogs, suggested a deep knowledge of this community and Mcintyre reveals that the timing of the hacker going into the uea a system and what they extracted correlate with some of what he was writing about on his blog there's, a big pulse of documents removed on september, twenty seventh through, october. Second- and these were dominantly tree ring- data related to your mail, families in siberia and treating data from there has been fought over by scientists and sceptics at the time, Mcintyre had just written a big blog post on them,

and three hours later, a huge bunch of am all data was downloaded by the hacker you the first person that I've told this too, and it certainly indicated to me that if nothing else, the hacker read my blog and then went and got the data Mcintosh. Believes the hacker was an individual one of his supporters, someone who was deep in the world of the blocks at what I have exotic there, of russian in town or u s fossil fuel the company's presented, I serve go back to the fact that I dont fancy. Any of these major institutions was interested in you now documents. As I was or as climate audit readers was, and the idea that Putin was my blog and worrying about you.

I'll just seems laughable. To me, I spoke to Steve Mcintyre for close to three hours, but here's something I found surprising what he really wanted to discuss wasn't climate, but russia or more specifically, his current project Trying to disprove claims that russia has ten leaked emails from the day and see your democratic party to influence the twins. Sixteen! U s! Election, I became very interested in de and see hack and all those events arise. from my interest in the climate gate act. He and an online community don't accept what the experts and the mainstream media are telling them and are once again hunting for data to prove their case for climate scientists, professor,

Michael man, there is also a link from climate gate through the twenty sixteen election to the world of today, with others. Perhaps learning from what happened in two thousand and nine, the bad faith assault on climate science by these bad actors was sort of this local cancer that ultimately metastasized too. fact our entire body politic, and that's what we're not seeing. Meanwhile, Steve motion has been on his own journey after two thousand and nine. He decided to run the date from you, a scientist, phil jones and tim osborne to check their models and in the end When I checked my results in my results match Phil Jones result the guy who criticise all those years, and then I had to eat this giant irony sandwich and a damned your book.

I keep motion has moved away from the idea that a few loan online warriors can reveal the truth by battling the establishment, even though he was tempted to return to the fray when covert began on organs, You know I started looking at the data you john data city data, and I see myself thinking the same way. You know the white knight the data what night is going to in and solve this whole problem. Just by looking at the numbers- but I said to myself: you like, I know nothing about epidemiology same way. I know nothing about climate. And unless you're a professional working in that field just stay away from that data, you don't know what you're doing you're going to make mistakes. What would you say to Phil jones and tim osborne if you were put in a room with him today? I think I'd apologize and apologize.

Or you know, like unsupported things, I said about their character. You know, and ah. unkind things I said about their work and their capabilities. I would definitely tell the story differently. You know I would be kinder. I would be kinder to jones and ass born you like, if I, if I get if I get to make, Allergy, even if this remotely a bbc to fill jones and TIM osborne. Then I'm happy fulfil jones climate gaiters left it scars hum But it was a very difficult time to get through. I managed to get through it. Would you like now to know who did it I don't think he's gonna make much difference now. I think the science is so someone

stronger now than it was in two thousand and nine, and this shouldn't be any doubt in politicians, mines that if they don't do anything about climate change in the near future. Then it's gonna be a lot harder for future generations. So who did the actual hack? I think Steve Mcintyre theory, a follower, His blog is most likely, although wouldn't, will allow other more organised interests being involved in spreading the material, but I'm buying less sure that the identity of the hacker is what matters most what's important is how it was used. The story is had a real impact on the climate change debate, but it also pointed What's the world we inhabit today, and maybe even If I did a road map for others to learn from a world

which information is weapon eyes taken out of context and spread on line where debate is bitter and often polarized, and where people tell you not to trust the science hunter question everything these days more about covert than climate, what started on a university campus in two thousand and nine has spread, and so even though I didn't grasp significance at the time, I think we now all live in the shadow of climate gate, the hack that change the world. the hack that change the world was presented by me, Gordon correira, and produced by sally abrahams? Thank you for listening. There will be more from the documentary cast soon. If you haven't already, please do subscribe and don't forget do try our other. bbc world service pot tee.