« The Documentary Podcast

My Forgotten War

2023-11-06 | 🔗

Turkey hosts the largest population of refugees and asylum seekers in the world. These include around 3.6 million Syrians, who fled there during the war in their country. Now many of those Syrian refugees feel forgotten, and again unsafe, and tensions with locals are higher than ever. Seven years ago, the EU handed Turkey 6 billion euros in a deal to stop Syrians heading to Europe. Since then, many Turks say their welcome has worn thin. And now, the Turkish government is deporting Syrians it says are in Turkey illegally, back to the warzone.

Karam was 19 when the President of Syria, Bashar al-Assad, had security forces fire on peaceful protestors and arrest hundreds of citizens. Karam was one of those arrested, and after being released he eventually paid a people smuggler to take him to Turkey. He believes that he’ll be arrested and tortured if he returnsto Syria. But he’s also afraid to stay in Turkey, saying that local Police ask for his papers around five times a day.

Hannah Lucinda Smith is in Esenyurt, a predominantly Syrian district around an hour's drive from the centre of Istanbul, speaking to both Syrians and Turks about why tensions have escalated. She's asking what’s next for Syrians living there, and whether or not it will ever be safe enough for them to return home.

A Depictar production for the BBC World Service.

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to the documentary from the BBC world service where we report the world, however difficult the issue, however hard to reach podcast from them. You world service, I supported by advertising, tired bad barging in to your favorite news broadcasts, good news ad free sitting on amazon, music is included with your prime membership. Just add the amis and I come slash ad free news broadcasts to catch up on the latest episode without the ads, and without an acre shows every continent such as we have that have ever wondered what sets exceptional leaders apart cover how renowned leaders from around the globe of harness, then twill talents to achieve remarkable success, uncover the secrets of leadership excellence. One strength at a time Gallops leading with strengths. Dive
Compelling stories at leading with strength stock come from the see world service. New is way around the underground. I will never imagined and he was capable of bringing did wander tens of millions of dollars for the north korean the lazarus haste season. Two is available. Now find it. Whenever you get your point causes I should sort out what up into my country. There is massive t you can be killed over, sits, anytime, forced to flee their homes during the war. Millions Assyrians have ended up as refugees in turkey, they feel forgotten, but where
That's many now say they once again feel unsafe. Yesterday I been solved by the police lifetimes. They are searching for any reason to fear from his honestly. If I had no choice but to go back to here I would officialdom relish. The war in Syria has displaced more than half its people neighbouring turkey. Now haste point six million syrian refugees more than any other country in the world. Wants them to stay there. Seven years ago, the european union handed he six billion euros in a deal to stop syrians heading to europe by saw that their desperation and the eu, and they were willing to give us anything at that time, just to stem the flow since then many turks say that their welcome has warned then, and now the turkish government is deporting
periods, it says, are in turkey illegally back to the war zone, I'm gonna, listen dismay and I've been living in a stumble andrew posting on syria and is refugee crisis for decades. In this episode of the documentary from the BBC world service, I'm heading two essen, yet about our drive outside the censure of istanbul, to see for myself how turkey has been transformed by the civil war that still raging next door and syria. This district is home to a lot of residents who have fled serious war. Could I guess, there's no bosphorus in essen, yet no palaces or grand osman mosques
This is not the istanbul that most people would immediately think of essen, yet is half haphazard place right on the edge of the city? Many of the buildings are legally boats, and some parts of the district and now almost entirely inhabited by sir The kara, how turkey was nineteen years old and students in syria when protest broke ass against the poor. since bashar Al Assad in twenty eleven day words his house in essen, yet hanging on well, there's a three start flag. The sum of serious opposition movements the television facing it. A video from twenty twelve is playing
there are people chancing in holding banners in the old damascus markets- will suit won't like hydrates, I'm studying in a prison. Please listen my handcuffs, so I can rights and those cairum. Looking a bit younger. bit thinner, raising both of his hands in the air in defines know. Some of them are that some of them out of the country reconsider. I am stuck here too, do you have any regrets when you look back at that video and you look at yourself ten years ago? No, absolutely! No! I just feel kind of said. First came the protests then the crackdown, the presence of syria bashar, Al Assad had security forces fire on peaceful protesters. Hundreds were arrested, including Cairum, when he was released. He went to his home town Dara within a year the in
stood spiraled into full scale, civil war thereof will stronghold suffered years of dumbarton from government forces karen, worked the white helmets, a surgeon You organization, that saved thousands of people from the rubble ass had recaptured, city of dera in twenty eighteen and carom was scared. I was working with, though I thought so staying in dora,
was that adage. It was the most awful memory. I remember because I left my hometown and I didn't don't fight gonna go back or I am just gonna die acids forces deported him and hundreds of others who had worked for the opposition in deira to add lip another war ravaged region at the other end of the country, which is controlled by radical islamist groups. After a few weeks there Karen paid people smugglers to take him into turkey, the smugglers, the of most people in the past we say that's where we're gonna die, they left us can survive and in early twenty nineteen he arrived in essen, yet join you
missy of some one hundred and twenty five thousand syrians just off essen, yet may down sprawling concrete square at the heart of the district A syrian business community is thriving. We ve come off the main square on to a small pedestrian street, which has the mosque on one side and on the other side, market, stalls and shops. If you look on a map, this is eleven three straight, but everyone in estonia cause a sham socket chums the name, the syringes for damascus and almost every shop and rest
it's on this street is syrian ones, one of them a shop under a bakery owned by Ahmed amit, who came to istanbul from damascus in twenty forty ahmet shop is a sweet, lover's paradise on one side. There are glass cabinets filled with sugar, covered, sweets and foil, wrapped chocolates at the end, there's a fridge, that's full of different types of ice cream and then on another side there are glass cabinets full of every kind of baklava. You can think of baklava with pistachio baklava, with cash units by clever and full cylinders and triangles everything that you can imagine
What's the difference between turkish sweets and syrian sweets, a lottery plaza and muffle thing, the main difference is that in syrian sweets you rely a lot more on the nuts, for example, the Syrians add a lot more cashew or a lot more pistachios or soda visuals
despite taking in syria being neighbouring muslim countries. There's a language barrier. Syrian income is first, language is arabic, not turkish, and they use totally different alphabet in twenty nineteen is stumble. City council introduced a new rule, only twenty five percent of the writing on shop. France can be an airbag homage to scratch, shouts his old arabic sign out friends, and now it's cold sharp under economic. They tat bread and sweets, and turkish does that make business difficult for you in any way the solution that we say that it does affect his business, because the new customers cannot recognise that has shop cell, syrian sweet Syrian, because a lot of arab tourists come here, and this is a start get it customer able to. In fact, life has been getting tougher for turkey syrians for a long time. Back
when fifteen serious war came to europe's doorstep. As a million migrants travelled from turkey to greece across jeanne, say in flimsy rubber boots. I reported the crisis and its scale was immense. Tens of thousands of men, women and often children and babies, crossing borders and countries in a kind of caravan, all out of hope for syria, but full of optimism for a new life in europe. at first countries like germany, welcomes them, but Europe's soon shut the door to new refugees for a solution. The european union looks to turkey. I saw that there desperation and the eu and they were willing to give us thing at that time, just to stem the flow that silly me, and now he was a diplomat working. Is is ambassador to the eu during the crisis and he was. The re missus Dale was broke. It between the van turkish prime minister are met david taller and german chancellor Angela Merkel, the
He gave turkey six billion euros to stop the boats. Some of the money went to border control, some of it went into turkish man just to help pay for syrians education and healthcare and those a promise that was popular with ordinary turks visa free travel in Europe shanklin zone for anyone with a turkish passports. Only the deal that you now helped broke, her never billy, materialised. Relations between the eu and turkey knows dived soon, after as turkey failed
meet the e's. Seventy two conditions on border security and fundamental rights. There was never any visa free travel, your average turk, what if they go out of the still nothing pure consider the average turk looking up, and that was all for the Syrians. The six billion was for the Syrians. The unfortunate let's say perception was that the deal seemed to be all about money. Everybody was thinking that all were giving the turks the money and they're keeping the money. The six billion was basically peanuts when compared to overall how much we have spent so far
Ima, take he tightened up his borders and made it much harder for syrians to travel to europe as senior its population swelled as syrians came from other parts of turkey for better job prospects and a familiar community. The strain started to show in schools and hospitals, and some turks started feeling pushed out. There are almost no turkish businesses left on Shunsuke just looking around. I can spot two or three How by the names says I in korea amish that selling dried foods lemon. That's also a turkish name in a smaller license. I mean vedette and karen, who are cousins and highest? savings that family run this shop for eight years and they work here and holidays all the truth is that is really the tutor said. There are some class
why people, if I say pretty much all syrians and he said we don't differentiate, but my problem is this: the teachers seem to give more attention and more care to the syrian students than they do to us and that's my problem. Much beer, as we were talking about the fact that these guys are from Van, which is in the east of turkey, the kurdish and their family came here for economic reasons. It's a very poor region of eastern turkey and says: can you have empathy with the syrians and- and they said yes course, but its different vision is about behaviour is about respecting the place where you're coming to, and one thing that they said was you know we go outside and you know the minority. Now
in one sense, it's the same story, you'll hear in any neighborhood anywhere in the world that seen a sudden influx of newcomers, but I also found misinformation everywhere. Some turks. I speak with, believe that the syrians are getting handouts from the government. That'll, have your love or feel sorry for them? Syrians are victims. Where can they go? Europe is not going to take them. If the war was finished, they could take back. Both the war hasn't finished. we let alone no, the war has finished why they still here they're getting salaries from the government being given houses theory Do you get free healthcare and education? That's partly what the ease six billion euros went towards, but they don't receive any extra help from the turkish state and they have
pay their taxes and build like everyone else, but falsehoods have become part of the conversation. As an alibi. Iraq is a journalist, tyrannies, tumble in the past cheese written extensively for pro government newspaper about syrians in turkey. Some people in turkey are reacting against syrians. One of the criticism is common labors. The second one is these people will have some criminal potentials. I don't think it, but some people believe that the third one is to get to zeeshan that belongs to the public integration problems, and so it changed the politics of government a bit. If you ask me there will be no problem if c
refugees were numerically smallish and could be integrated into society. I'm sure you ve seen that there are human rights organizations like amnesty international, human rights watch every so often they will release report claiming that turkey is arresting deporting syrians doing things which are against international law by sending syrians back to syria. Do you think that these criticisms are now? We have to talk about a reality? Of course, some states may have been made in the process. We have millions of refugees, but I dont believe these are We also ask the turkish government, if they'd be part of this programme, but they didn't respond to our request. The opposition have also played on turks antagonism toward syrians. Before
Elections in may this year, billboards appeared everywhere in his temple, even in the districts whether on refugees in the face of the opposition leader kim alkalis tooralloo a slogan serenely leg, giddy jack, the syrians we'll go. They bring it from Gaza, This is a documentary from the BBC world service and the other voice you ve been hearing is small, alabama assyrian journalist at all fresh she's, been with me, as we been speaking with people in essen. Yet asthma doesn't look like a stereotypical, typical, serene woman. She doesn't whether headscarf and style is european and really shake
a turkish is flawless, no one's realise she serene when you say that your syrian, you don't know what the person's reaction is going to be. I think you get used to it. I think it becomes part of your daily life and I think there is definitely a danger in that, because, if I'm feeling that way than I can imagine what it feels like to people who have to endure this on a daily basis, one roots of the problem is that there is very little clear information in turkey about. Syrians. All was the fact that, having on the country, the calculations are complicated, Syrians receive services from the turkish state, but they also contribute to the economy, including under undocumented syrians, who often work for
illegally low wages in turkish factories or in agriculture working out. The true impact of the syrians on turkey is impossible. Without the data retired former ambassador to the e, a silly me and elegant, nothing is transparent, so everything is opaque, so we can figure it out. So we're going to just abide by. You know the heresy that we're having. Unfortunately, building up more concerned, because there's no concrete numbers to hang on. This is the soil in which conspiracy theories cry. Absolutely absolutely that of preventing it where the actual feeding, as popular opinion in turkey has turned against the Syrians. The government has also toughened stunts last year. Take his president type at one time, parliament that over half a million syrians have returned home since twenty sixteen, but is not clear how many of those people returned voluntarily. As the turkish government claims, human rights
watch has documented dozens of cases of syrians being forcibly deported from turkey or being was to sign deputation papers, but just as revoking squire right in front of me, the police have detained. mean he's only certain syrian and it looks like they're pushing him onto the boss. It turns out, we ve comes
and yet on the first day of a new wave of police roundups, there are dozens of officers going around the square, stopping mostly men who look foreign they're frogmarched, some of them to a line of three buses in the corner of the square. That's been barricaded off as a kind of informal base for the police. There's a water cannon parked there too, and a dozen police with assault rifles guarding the detainees according to testimonies, syrians targeted in previous roundups have been taken to detention camps and then, in many cases deported. The police have just asked us to stop
I didn't realize. Actually we don't have a camera, but they were quite aggressive. They are taking another person to the bus. The police are detaining anyone who doesn't have the right papers, not just for turkey, but for istanbul. Residence papers are restricted to one city and traveling elsewhere requires special permission syrians without the right documents staying at home, as roundup continue metres away. We speak with the syrian woman on the square, his face timing with a friend who might be that if some of the police, when he saw a light, he stuck in to him because he can't leave the house so this. Why she's video calling him she would say like keep your voice, like literally in the background the police are behind us, but they glad believe it I'm on my way through Estonia to see Cairum again, who met earlier he's been rebuilding his life here is that turkish
recent university in istanbul- and he said and again on his competes engineering degree in one way, he's lucky only able to live in essen yet because of his student visa. Since february twenty Detailed, almost Syrians have been banned from getting new residents, is here and in several other districts of istanbul, hi. How are you nice to see? Should we take our shoes off, although, if you added up all the hours that you've spent in turkey tossing out paperwork. How many hours or days do you think you've spent on it stick to a lot of time. All of this time you can't live with electric or water or heating. You know they didn't stumble it's freezing winter. There was no heating, no electric, no water. I think it's
an awful way to deal with syrian refugee, and now that you have all the papers that you need, how often you having to show them all the time all the time you need to hold your paper with you? Yesterday I been subbed by the police, five types. Five times I mean to give you a comparison: I've been here for ten years, I'm also obviously a foreigner. I haven't been stopped five times in that whole tenure. You're blonde do not. If he did have to leave turkey. Where could you go mostly? I didn't know where I can go, because you can see all the word for it from us. How does that make you feel? Let's make me yeah, for it
They want other people to understand us that we are not the most monster that they are talking about. A meteor countries, including lebanon in Jordan, are also adding to pressure and forced syrians to return to their country, arguing that the wars ending I bashar Al Assad was accepted back into the arab league, which had banished him in twenty eleven setback. At my apartment, I'm on the laptop looking at a website called live you away. It tracks, opensource information about the syrian conflict and they also flags whether the information is verified or not, and provide sources. It's a really useful tool for tracking what's going on in the country, so I can see in the past twenty four hours alone. There is ready ass strikes, a military positions in the south, that's in retaliation for strikes on Israel
from Syria, the shelling on rebel held it lit province, russian air strikes in a refugee camp in ITALY province, five severely killed, five injured shelling on a leper providence, such rebel held as well bombardment. Honourable provinces, a video of this one up the long absence, huge fires started by some kind of incendiary weapon strike. You S, air base in the north of the country. So that's a normal day in Syria, in twenty twenty three and that's why around? Eight million syrians and now living outside their country, retired former diplomats an ambassador to the EU. Stleam yeah now doesn't see the proper going away. How could we send them back did not feel secure in syria. That's the reason why why left in the first place,
so I think we'll will be having them for the long run, and also we have half a million people born here. So are the turks are the syrians? What are they? No decision has been taken, yet I at my job I mean syrian boys who give me their answers that I spot them by their matching football kits orange and black striped with arabic writing on the front and on the back in turkish arabic, united team, there are eleven and twelve years old and they've been in turkey for more than half their lives. The turkish is perfect. Turret listeners, surreal and listeners they're going to ask them: do you feel turkish or you do feel syrian and all of them said, can feel turkish everything's nicer? Our life is good. When I ask them to
returned to syria. All of them said knight. Syria has slipped from the headlines, but sir and he remain in or return to their country mistake. I live under a sad islamists or kurdish forces. All parts of the country, a poor, unstable and unsafe parents, family is scattered around the world, his mother.
brothers live in different countries whose status in turkey means that you can't travel abroad say they keep up by fine. Some of it is another little. Firstly, shoe us away, I'm feeling that ay, you thought or not from home. She heard about what is happening in someone. That's why she's afraid for me, then she asked me about that. get some a my breakfast you're in different countries, you're living on your aim, but she still worried that you had your breakfast, that's smokes carom, is now one of millions of citizens who can't go back to their country amnesty international has documented cases of returnees. Being accused of terrorism arbitrarily detained and, in some cases, tortured, but
caramels, who doesn't see a long term future in turkey, and he has few other options. The reach europe is almost fully closed. Could you go back to syria, or so I hope I have to get back to you, but it's kind of a dream I can't go there with a sudden regime is a sum that the moment I get back to syria. I believe I e government be arrested honestly. If I had choice, but to go back to syria. I referred to in my life. Syrians have been victims many times over of bombs, passing issuing people, smugglers and misinformation. There was a of a year. Pain policy. This is shut, the continent's dose them and populist politicians who play on very fears, but for the EU the deal with turkey
Where tat well and is still ongoing. The number of migrants travelling to europe from turkey is a fraction of what it was in twenty fifteen. We approach the european union for common for this programme, but they didn't Spawned this summer, the EU struck a similar deal for one billion euros with tunisia aimed at tackling human trafficking, enticing borders and since leave me, the uk has struck his own deals with turkey to stop migration. In essence, the current is cut off from his own country and has no say in the post six of the country he's living and is extremely hard. too much in syria being safe enough for him to return anytime soon, butts
he says his goal is simple: to be reunited with his family two of my brothers, but didn't see them from about ten years. When you finally see your brothers again, what will you do to her christian? I don't think. Are you going to stop liking him? I only communicate with them by phone call. Let's you know nothing feels like you won't see him. Wish handle? That's all I can say this has been my forgotten war depicted documentary for them see what service written impressed. To buy me analysing the smith and produced by mutware him or plummets climate
change and we are in the midst of a climate crisis. The climate question speaks to those hit the hardest. The problems caused by deforestation and the environment are huge. We in big trouble on asks what we can do to soften the impact for this. We do have the means to do something about this. Try and reduce our reliance on fossil fuels way more wind and solar. I do have a lot of faith for the future of the climate question from the BBC world service, find it wherever you get your bbc podcast tired, bad barging in to your favorite news broadcasts. Good news ad free, sitting on amazon music is included with your prime membership. Just add the amateur dot, com, slash, ad free news broadcasts to catch up on the latest episode without the ads and without an acre, shows every front such as we have that have ever wondered what sets exceptional leaders apart cover, how renowned leaders from around the globe of harness then
troll talents to achieve remarkable success, uncover the secrets of leadership excellence, one strength at a time: gallops leading with strengths, dive compelling stories at leading with strength, stock com.
Transcript generated on 2023-12-10.