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come to the documentary from the BBC world service, I'm stephen sack a host of the bbc's haunt taught podcast, with in depth hitting interviews with news. Make personalities this space year? Ending edition of hard talk is our chance to look back on some of them. telling and compelling encounters of twenty twenty three Will this past year be remembered, a grim new phase in an intractable conflict will lose large, october, the seven hamas the islamist group which controls gaza land is prescribed as a terror. Storm innovation in the uk; and u s launched murderous attack on southern Israel, twelve hundred israelis, what killed Israel's response was a ferocious assault on Gaza now in its month, which has inflicted tens of thousands

of palestinian casualties, danny Denham, a former israeli ambassador at the? U n and close ally of prime minister Netanyahu, weeds to minimize civilian casualties, we will work very how to do it. We cannot guarantee one hundred percent safety for the people in Gaza will be allowed to come ass militants that's why I'm deep thing move out for those neighborhood, because we are I have to hunt down Hamas and we will do whatever is necessary form the air from the sea from the land we will get to those people and we will kill them Israel's stated objective: the complete destruction of Hamas achievable the palestinian authority, quoted in the west bank, is no friend of Hamas, but the p london representative who SAM's omelette told me is, this strategy is doomed

You cannot defeat ideologies with bullets, as is trying to do and rockets they will end up in the bed. Above is a big. Is this rockets? You defeat ideologies in the ballot, not the bullet, the ballot box, and I believe this could serve as a wake up call as an alarm that there is no way you can bypass the legitimate rights of the palestinian people, and there is no way you can repeat a second look about the neck by references, the placement of arabs from towns and villages which became part of Israel in nineteen. Forty, eight, twenty twenty. Three: Seen a huge displacement, Gaza's population, most of the two point. Three million residents have been forced to flee their homes the face of Israel's military assault systems. monetary and relief have been stretched beyond breaking point. Felipe lazzarini is head of the u n relief agency for palestinian refugees

in Gaza if onward collapses, If one, what lived as a stripper to last glimpse of but the palestinians have would also disappear and would be felt as a betrayal the international community. So we, to do what ever is possible to keep The presence of a war which is considered not only by people in Gaza, but also In the region by the various country has been absolutely responsible as scale of the death, destruction and humanitarian catastrophe became ever more evident in Gaza. International Sure for a ceasefire mounted the you Israel's key strategic partner, refused those calls but the bite distractions tone towards the israeli government became more critical

Washington's message, crushing hamas and re occupying gaza, is not in itself a pathway to lasting peace. That requires Israel to accept some difficult truths. democrats senator Chris Coon's is one of Joe bite the closest allies on capitol hill. Let's be clear. The only path forward towards justice and an independent state for palestinians, not through Hamas violence. It is through didn't Biden com. active and persistent advocacy for a two state solution, It is a real problem for us that prime minister Netanyahu does not embrace a two state solution Joe Biden has believed in and fought for and come in which palestinians have a chance actually govern themselves. Senator that's not true is the truth. Is the united states has continued to regard israel is its key strategic ally which it backs with vast amounts of money? What ever israeli?

settlers I've been doing on the west bank and that sure Is the core? U s mistake when it comes to saying we have done our utmost for a two state solution you haven't so think the previous administration took a very sharp change in direction in terms of u S. Israeli relations and one of our challenges has been in terms of holding, is rarely governments feet to the fire and supporting how, danny and ambitions for a two state solution- verses, tolerating even welcoming settler expansion potential annexation of the west bank. There has been quite good front approaches from different administrations. Really is israeli government heed the warnings and admonitions coming from Washington? Well, similar, rossman represents the far right, religious zionism party in the israeli. Can it he's a key member of yeah, whose ruling coalition? I think that when we talk about what will happen in Gaza,

everyone who cares about the safety of air jobs and jews alike? In the area understands now, someone did not learn from October seven's anything and wants to return to this jason, again and again and again, I have disagreement with this view and with people who that we need to return to the day. For october. Seven, and allow our enemies to come and slaughter and murder and rape, children and families in Israel. I dont think it's a good idea at some point the war in Gaza will end. But what then, after all of the blood shed is any prospect at all, of finding a pathway to peacefully coexist. Since in the land between the Jordan river, and the mediterranean sea must have. Our barghouti is jane we'll secretary of the palestinian national initiative. Thirdly- and I dont only imagine it- I believe in It- and I work for it and

Tell you again, as I said before many times, Israel as one or two options either evacuate, the settlers from the west bank, and allow palestinians to have a state of their own, including west bank, gaza and east jerusalem. Arrange for the return of the palestinian refugees or we should live in wonder popular extent where we all have equal rights to jewish and palestinian people, but what they want is to it. The glens us and have police an old by themselves as well, or consumed Gaza. International attention was distracted from ukraine this year stalled key of counter offensive saw in Hence the nutritional battles with little ground gained or lost. Having survived yevgeny precautions, short lived, rebellion, Vladimir Putin appeared increasingly confident of lasting ukraine and its western backers in twenty twenty

Three it became clear. This war has become a brutal test of strategic will. And where does that leave ukraine first? Will here? ukrainian opposition politician care, riddick, and then you cry in foreign minister, Dmitri calais, but we want to keep the war on the agenda and to get enough of the weapons, so we can actually win the war, because in strategy is to jack everyone into this long fight with I hope that their lives would not sustain it. The degree of fear in cave right now, fear of ukraine fatigue setting in you know, we leave side by side with this year probably since simplex second week of the full scale invasion solve. This is why we are working on all the international france. This is why then the landscape is doing. He is international visits showing them

to do it, but also sitting We ask the fighting. We are still here. Please don't forget about that. Please and with us? Please win with us the struggle for victory, this huge pressure that we all feel not only soldiers in the army, but also diplomats, politicians, old members of the linsky administration. We, stand how high stakes are in this. What drives us to work harder to get all the weapons that our country needs truly everyday. I wake up was one thought have I done enough yesterday for ukrainians, You're taking part in the counter offensive to be able save his life to break through the lines into move forward. This is shouldn't we all were feeling latin. Uprooting seems to be ending this year, increasingly confident that the war is going his way, russia, losses have been enormous, but Putin believes he can out last ukraine gay karaganov chair

Russia's council for foreign and defence policy the juncture. There's only one way, winning the war. in the ukrainian armed forces, defeat of the west, but course a moderate if you off the west and liberation of ukraine from their nazi regime and build action they re notes right. Well that that's quite a wish list. do you agree with me that want em and measure of the health of a society, whether its fighting a rule, a war or not. Is honesty, weather, culture is society is prepared to be honest with itself. Do you think russia is being honoured with itself today. Most I understand that it is for life or death the existential so we are going to win twenty. Twenty three has tested the result of ukraine's allies, some I remain steadfast. Some are clearly harbouring doubts,

cheer from estonian prime minister kyar collapse, then czech president petard pavel, we have to believe in ukraine's victory. Otherwise this is what russia is hoping for to see x in our unity and also to see cracks in our belief in ukraine's victory, because We don't believe anymore, then we don't support ukraine hundreds of miles and then ingredients have died. war and rain right now, insist that it will recover all of its territory but this war, which for right now appears to have no end is costing the more it is terrible price. It is, but I come to our own history. Of course, We tried knows that war is bad and peace is good, but there's also difference between peace and peace. you in uk, after the second world war, you had piece which meant that you built up your country, noble died because of the regime, whereas here

we didn't have war after the second world war, we have peace what it meant was mass deportations of our people to Siberia where they died. It meant mass killings of people, it meant that support Think of our culture. Trying to raise our language. All of this was here when there was piece by piece in ukraine are. We are helping ourselves because we leave it on its ended. If we leave it without any support and the rest countries are supporting. Our agreement would do the same. then, russia would most probably prevail in ukraine. Russia would take it as a whole permission of the right approach to their foreign and security policies and as We heard openly for a mother top representatives, russia would instead with ukraine the conflict ukraine and Gaza raised awkward questions. The see if the world's most powerful nation, the united states, does it

in the will and the capacity to project power across the globe in power of course that depends on who is in the white house, twenty twenty four. Presidential election year, but twenty twenty three put the leadership question front: center. A re run of Biden versus trump is looking likely, but his eye the man. What a man I could needs during the year I spoke to former speak the house nancy Pelosi. Still an influential democrat and congressmen mock offered ultra loyalist Joe Biden, is one as he has knowledge, is a beautiful vision for america. He has knowledge of the issues. Therefore judge and wisdom. He has strategic thinking about getting things done. That's why presidency has been so, successful on the domestic front. He has empathy and your

fifteen months from now Joe Biden, re elected as president of the united states with great pride, I think donald up will be able to do things in his second term that he was not able to do in this first term. Had he had a different attorney general had he had a different fbi director? We would not be sitting here today talking about a re election of tromp, because he would have already been re elected that mistakes that he made in his first term. He will not make again and that's why the demo- rats, and some of the media are scared to death. Donald trump is going. You get a second term and he's going to clean house in may. the? U s is not the only country where the health of democracy is about to be tested in Putin's rip Save russia, the outcome of the looming presidential election is entirely predictable, less so in south africa, where they ruling and see hasn't with a monopoly on powers since the end of apartheid, but he's looking

increasingly vulnerable, as elections draw near, I took cod work on the road to south africa. Last may, as the end The government was struggling to keep the lights on John Steen Hazan is leader of the opposition democratic alliance. I colonies, not growing. We ve got thirty minutes people living in poverty, twelve million people unemployed and low shooting rolling blackouts. Since every home and switched off the lights switched off our factories and switched off our economy south africans are realising that if they don't change the way they vote, so africa is going to end up in a very dark place. The ruling african national congress is under pressure as never before for keeley amber lula is an see secretary general, the problem love. The load shedding is a challenge of demanded, apply. We focused terms of dealing with it. It doesn't.

achilles heel, and I can tell you tonight or any time that did is an easy matter for our government shortly after covered nineteen. This is the biggest challenge that does actually faced us internal, its Candide or not to say to say this is an achilles heel because achilles heels tend to breathe. people down, and if this continues, it will bring the agency down, wanted. It will affect fortunes of the agency, it cheese, the outright majority it will perhaps The greatest threat to the agency's grip on power comes from the former firebrand, a and c. Usually the turned radical opponent of the party, Julia my his economic creed, fighters present black voters with a brand of angry populism that feeds on the failures and career action of agency rule. I'm telling you there's going to be a revolution and lead the way

collapse unless he was going to tell me the grid color, I'm seem to you. How do you think south africans gonna feel hearing arm say there are people who are losing their jobs lawyer who have known you just at eighty really misinterpreted me, I'm saying to lead the grid collapse as It is going to happen and see what's going to happen in this country, I'm not wishing and I'm saying when trap it end. you'll see. What's going to happen, you think that was the great collapse, People are going to exchange of roses with government people I went to rise twenty two two three exposed new divisions between the rich world and the so called global south, but on one issue: humanity, an undeniable common interest, climate change and how to prevent the first of man made global warming. the sense of urgency is most keenly felt in island nations, vulnerable to rising sea levels and extreme weather waffle.

Cologne is president of the republic, the cove say: shells we ve got about thirty nine granitic islands, and was my he being the main granitic island goes up to three thousand feet up, but Other islands, I just a mere four metres three metres- above sea level and already what we are seeing is with the rise in sea level and the greatest surges of these islands are already changing shapes. Therefore, these islands, similar to the maldives, stand to sing It is a the recent cop meeting in dubai ended with a collective promise to transition away from fossil fuels. Some cheered. Some remain sceptical. His jennifer morgan secretary and special envoy for international climate action

germany, if you're, looking at the moment, we're in right now where the climate crisis is here and now. Thirty six in people in eastern africa, with drought a three year: drought and you king at having to have global emissions africa needs to develop and we need to have an alternative development model to what we had thus far so weak. and this is enough, but this is what we're trying to make happen through different partnerships provide front models where africa have to go. through the same fossil fuel trap that we went through, seeking a more sustainable way of doing things isn't just about averting a climate disaster. Last summer I went to one extraordinary farm in sudden england to meet the clean named isabella tree a champion of boy diversity through ree wilding were always to need, prime per day the land for agriculture absolutely for food production, but we also

they need land for nature, we need to cleaner air, we need to our water, we need to bring back diversity and we need to sequester carbon. We producing enough food, we don't need more area for food production, but we think much more cleverly about how we produce food and how we're going to sustain those systems. We go to remember that planet is on fire climb. change is an existential challenge for the human race. So too, if you believe some of the tec, gurus of our age is artificial intelligence. I ever more sophisticated machine learning, generative ay. I is already embedded in our lives bro. You know it could have written the words I'm using right now, as it happens it didn't. These words are all mine. How do you know and how much that matter well, listen first, too, most of us suleiman ceo of inflection ay, I and co founder of deep mind, and then u s

economist daron Acemoglu, new technologies, always bring very new challenges, and in this case there is the potential that very powerful systems will spread far and wide, and I think that has the potential to pose really significant, catastrophic threats to the future of the nation state. So, for example, technologies in the history of our species, to the extent that they have been incredibly useful. They ve always got cheaper, easier to use and therefore have spread all around the world. If that actually continues when we are actually talking about the creation of intelligence itself or in synthetic biology life itself? In some respects these units of power are gonna, get smaller and smaller and smaller and spread far and wide everybody thirty to fifty years may potentially get access to state like powers, I think, is a very important point that you know: hd wells, captured and

hi machine when he said when talking off human dominion about nature. We forget that it's always entangled. human dominion over other human. That's that age or we are using a guy in a way whose subjugate people reduce their autonomy, reduce their agency, reduce their contribution to production and that's being done. Nothing she's have taken over, but because a small cadre of people are shaping. Future of ai in Twenty three hollywood writers went on strike partly over concerns that uncontrolled use of a I could cost created, their livelihoods, it was thing I discussed with leading british tv and theatre writer lucy preamble. Have you try every minute trades write, something in the style of lucy probable or have an exacting done that which is slightly shameful, and I am now. something which is quite depressing up stuff. What you recognize

what its drawing from it isn't necessarily of a high quality, but his words be insulted by that or infused by that complicated, but I'm reading them and I'm thinking- ok, so you are drawing on material it's available from me. So there was a copyright issues so that evans- that's rarely discussed, but It may not be sophisticated yet, but it will be. It will be one day really sophisticated. I am worried about that later in this review of the hard talk here with a burst of positivity. I salute to the guests senegalese musician Bobby mile who have made all the talk of conflict, division and suffering came studio and reminded us of the importance of seizing moments of joy and celebrating life happy

It could not for the menu got the cab yeah. My band got in damn got a mental. Let me end with just a quick reminder that if you'd like to listen to in depth hon thing interviews with news. Making personalities do search for hard talk wherever you get. Your bbc pod fast hello, I'm katya adler, and this is the global story from the BBC world service. China and America came together and agreed on the climate issue. We have to look beyond the headlines, peel back lazy assumptions and give you a fresh global perspective on the stories. That matter. Is europe tiring at tubs of it, supports the crate and they will have to be some kind of negotiations to end this war, such for the global story. Wherever you get your bbc podcast.

tired, adds barging in to your favorite news broadcasts good news ad free listening on amazon music is included with your prime membership, just at the amazon dot com, slash ad free news, bod to catch up on the latest episode without the ads and without an acre shows every front continent such as we have that toyota. Electrified doesn't just mean plug a fight so whether it's a hybrid tundra, logan prayers were all electric busy for acts. The more ways we can choose to reduce carbon emissions, the closer we all get to toyota beyond zero vision, toyota, let's go places.