Stephen Sackur looks back at some of HARDtalk’s most impactful and thought-provoking interviews of 2023.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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come to the documentary from the BBC world service, I'm stephen sack a host of the bbc's haunt taught podcast, with in depth
hitting interviews with news. Make
personalities this space
year? Ending edition of hard talk is our chance to look back on some of them.
telling and compelling encounters of twenty twenty three
Will this past year be remembered, a grim
new phase in an intractable conflict will lose
large,
october, the seven hamas
the islamist group which controls gaza land is prescribed as a terror.
Storm innovation in the uk; and u s launched
murderous attack on southern Israel, twelve hundred israelis, what killed Israel's response was a ferocious assault on Gaza now in its
month, which has inflicted tens of thousands
of palestinian casualties, danny Denham,
a former israeli ambassador at the? U n and
close ally of prime minister Netanyahu, weeds
to minimize civilian casualties, we will work very how to do it. We cannot guarantee one hundred percent safety for the people
in Gaza will be allowed to come ass militants
that's why I'm deep thing move out
for those neighborhood, because we are
I have to hunt down Hamas and we will do whatever is necessary form the air from the sea from the land we will get to those people and we will kill them
Israel's stated objective: the complete destruction of Hamas achievable the palestinian authority,
quoted in the west bank, is no friend of Hamas, but the p
london representative who SAM's omelette told me is,
this strategy is doomed
You cannot defeat ideologies with bullets, as is trying to do and rockets they will end up in the bed. Above is a big. Is this rockets? You defeat ideologies in the ballot, not the bullet, the ballot box, and I believe this could serve as a wake up call as an alarm that there is no way you can bypass the legitimate rights of the palestinian people, and there is no way you can repeat a second look about the neck by references, the
placement of arabs from towns and villages which became part of Israel in nineteen. Forty, eight, twenty twenty. Three:
Seen a huge displacement,
Gaza's population, most of the two
point. Three million residents have been forced to flee their homes
the face of Israel's military assault systems.
monetary and relief have been stretched beyond breaking point. Felipe lazzarini is head of the
u n relief agency for palestinian refugees
in Gaza if onward collapses,
If one, what lived as a stripper to last glimpse of
but the palestinians have would also disappear and would be felt as a betrayal
the international community. So we,
to do what ever is possible to keep
The presence of a war which is considered not only by
people in Gaza, but also
In the region by the various country has been absolutely
responsible as
scale of the death, destruction and humanitarian catastrophe became ever more evident in Gaza. International
Sure for a ceasefire mounted the you
Israel's key strategic partner, refused
those calls but the bite
distractions tone towards the israeli government became more critical
Washington's message, crushing hamas and re occupying gaza, is not in itself a pathway to lasting peace. That requires Israel to accept some difficult truths.
democrats senator Chris Coon's is one of Joe bite
the closest allies on capitol hill. Let's be clear. The
only path forward towards justice and an independent state for palestinians,
not through Hamas violence. It is through
didn't Biden com.
active and persistent advocacy for a two state solution,
It is a real problem for us that prime minister Netanyahu does not embrace a two state solution
Joe Biden has believed in and fought for and
come in which palestinians have a chance
actually govern themselves. Senator that's not true is the truth. Is the united states has continued to regard israel is its key strategic ally which it backs with vast amounts of money? What ever israeli?
settlers I've been doing on the west bank and that sure
Is the core? U s mistake when it comes to saying we have done our utmost for a two state solution you haven't so
think the previous administration took a very sharp change in direction in terms of u S. Israeli relations and one of our challenges has been in terms of holding, is rarely governments feet to the fire and supporting how,
danny and ambitions for a two state solution- verses,
tolerating even welcoming settler expansion potential annexation of the west bank. There has been quite good
front approaches from different administrations. Really is israeli government heed the warnings and admonitions coming from Washington? Well,
similar, rossman represents the far right,
religious zionism party in the israeli. Can it he's a key member of
yeah, whose ruling coalition? I think that when we talk about what will happen in Gaza,
everyone who cares about the safety of air
jobs and jews alike? In the area understands now,
someone did not learn from October seven's anything and wants to return to this
jason, again and again and again, I have disagreement with this view and with people who
that we need to return to the day.
For october. Seven,
and allow our enemies to come and slaughter and murder and rape, children and families in Israel. I dont think
it's a good idea at some point
the war in Gaza will end. But what then, after all of the blood shed is
any prospect at all, of finding a pathway to peacefully coexist.
Since in the land between the Jordan river,
and the mediterranean sea must have. Our barghouti is jane
we'll secretary of the palestinian national initiative.
Thirdly- and I dont only imagine it- I believe in It- and I work for it and
Tell you again, as I said before many times, Israel as one or two options either
evacuate, the settlers from the west bank,
and allow palestinians to have a state of their own, including west bank, gaza and east jerusalem.
Arrange for the return of the palestinian refugees or we should live in wonder popular extent where we all have equal rights to jewish and palestinian people, but
what they want is to it.
The glens us and have police
an old by themselves as well,
or consumed Gaza. International attention was distracted from ukraine
this year stalled key of counter offensive saw in
Hence the nutritional battles with little ground gained or lost.
Having survived yevgeny precautions, short lived, rebellion, Vladimir Putin appeared increasingly confident of
lasting ukraine and its western backers in twenty twenty
Three it became clear. This war has become a brutal test of strategic will.
And where does that leave ukraine first? Will here?
ukrainian opposition politician care,
riddick, and then you cry
in foreign minister, Dmitri calais, but we want to keep
the war on the agenda and to get enough of the weapons, so we can actually win the war, because in strategy is to jack everyone into this long fight with
I hope that their lives would not sustain it.
The degree of fear in cave right now, fear of ukraine fatigue
setting in you know, we leave side by side with this year
probably since simplex
second week of the full scale invasion solve. This is why we are working on all the international france. This is why
then the landscape is doing. He is international visits showing them
to do it, but also sitting
We ask the fighting. We are still here. Please don't forget about that. Please
and with us? Please win with us the struggle for victory, this
huge pressure that we all feel not only soldiers in the army, but also diplomats, politicians, old members of the linsky administration. We,
stand how high stakes are in this. What drives us to work harder to get all the weapons that our country needs
truly everyday. I wake up was one thought
have I done enough yesterday for ukrainians,
You're taking part in the counter offensive to be able
save his life to break through the lines into move forward. This is
shouldn't we all were feeling latin.
Uprooting seems to be ending this year, increasingly confident that the war is going his way, russia,
losses have been enormous, but Putin believes he can out last ukraine
gay karaganov chair
Russia's council for foreign and defence policy
the juncture. There's only one way,
winning the war.
in the ukrainian armed forces, defeat of the west, but
course a moderate if you off the west
and liberation of ukraine from their nazi regime and build
action they re notes right. Well that that's quite a wish list.
do you agree with me that want em
and measure of the health of a society, whether its fighting a rule, a war or not. Is honesty, weather,
culture is society is prepared to be honest with itself. Do you think russia is being honoured
with itself today. Most
I understand that it is
for life or death
the existential so we are going to win twenty.
Twenty three has tested the result of ukraine's allies, some
I remain steadfast. Some are clearly harbouring doubts,
cheer from estonian prime minister kyar collapse, then czech president petard pavel, we have to believe
in ukraine's victory. Otherwise this is what russia is hoping for to see
x in our unity and also to see cracks in our belief in ukraine's victory, because
We don't believe anymore, then we don't support ukraine hundreds of miles and then ingredients have died.
war and rain right now, insist that it will recover all of its territory but
this war, which for right now
appears to have no end is costing
the more it is terrible price. It is, but I come to our own history. Of course,
We tried knows that war is bad and peace is good, but there's also difference between peace and peace.
you in uk, after the second world war, you had piece which meant that you built up your country, noble
died because of the regime, whereas here
we didn't have war after the second world war, we have peace
what it meant was mass deportations of our people to Siberia where they died. It meant mass killings of people, it meant that support
Think of our culture. Trying
to raise our language. All of this was
here when there was piece by piece
in ukraine are. We are helping ourselves because
we leave it on its ended. If we leave it without any support and the rest
countries are supporting. Our agreement would do the same.
then, russia would most probably prevail in ukraine. Russia would take it as a whole
permission of the right approach to their foreign and security policies and as
We heard openly for a mother top representatives, russia would instead
with ukraine the conflict
ukraine and Gaza raised awkward questions. The see if the world's most powerful nation, the united states, does it
in the will and the capacity to project power across the globe in power
of course that depends on who is in the white house, twenty twenty four.
Presidential election year, but twenty twenty three put the leadership question front:
center. A re run of Biden versus trump is looking likely, but his eye the man. What a man
I could needs
during the year I spoke to former speak
the house nancy Pelosi. Still an influential democrat and congressmen mock offered
ultra loyalist Joe Biden, is one
as he has knowledge, is a beautiful vision for america. He has knowledge of the issues. Therefore judge
and wisdom. He has strategic
thinking about getting things done. That's why
presidency has been so,
successful on the domestic front. He has empathy and your
fifteen months from now Joe Biden, re elected as president of the united states with great pride, I think donald
up will be able to do things in his second term that he was not able to do in this first term. Had he had a different attorney general had he had a different fbi director? We would not be sitting here today talking about a re election of
tromp, because he would have already been re elected that mistakes that he made in his first term. He will not make again and that's why the demo-
rats, and some of the media are scared to death. Donald trump is going. You get a second term and he's going to clean house in may.
the? U s is not the only country where the health of democracy is about to be tested in Putin's rip
Save russia, the outcome of the looming presidential election is entirely predictable, less so in south africa, where they ruling and see hasn't
with a monopoly on powers since the end of apartheid, but he's looking
increasingly vulnerable, as elections draw near, I took cod
work on the road to south africa. Last may, as the end
The government was struggling to keep the lights on
John Steen Hazan is leader of the opposition democratic alliance. I colonies, not growing. We ve got thirty minutes
people living in poverty, twelve million people unemployed and low
shooting rolling blackouts.
Since every home and switched off the lights switched off our factories and switched off our economy
south africans are realising that if they don't change the way they vote, so africa is going to end up in a very dark
place. The ruling african national congress is under pressure as never before for keeley
amber lula is an see secretary general, the problem
love. The load shedding is a challenge of demanded,
apply. We focused
terms of dealing with it. It doesn't.
achilles heel, and I can tell you tonight or any time that did
is an easy matter for our government shortly after
covered nineteen. This is the biggest challenge that does actually faced us internal, its
Candide or not to say to say this is an achilles heel because achilles heels tend to breathe.
people down, and if this continues, it will bring the agency down, wanted. It will affect
fortunes of the agency, it cheese, the outright majority it will perhaps
The greatest threat to the agency's grip on power comes from the former firebrand, a and c. Usually the turned radical opponent of the party, Julia
my his economic creed,
fighters present black voters with a brand of angry populism that feeds on the failures and career
action of agency rule. I'm telling you there's going to be a revolution and lead the way
collapse unless he was going to tell me the grid color, I'm seem to you. How do you think south africans gonna feel hearing arm say there are people who are losing their jobs lawyer who have known you just at eighty really misinterpreted me, I'm saying to lead the grid collapse as
It is going to happen and see what's going to happen in this country, I'm not wishing and I'm saying
when trap it end.
you'll see. What's going to happen, you think that was the great collapse,
People are going to exchange of roses with government people
I went to rise twenty two
two three exposed new divisions between the rich world and the so called global south, but on one issue: humanity,
an undeniable common interest, climate change and how to prevent the
first of man made global warming.
the sense of urgency is most keenly felt in island nations, vulnerable to rising sea levels and extreme weather waffle.
Cologne is president of the republic,
the cove say: shells we ve got about
thirty nine granitic islands, and
was my he being the main granitic island goes up to three thousand feet up, but
Other islands, I just a mere four metres three metres-
above sea level
and already what we are seeing is with the rise in sea level and
the greatest surges
of these islands are already changing shapes. Therefore,
these islands, similar to the maldives, stand to sing
It is a the recent cop meeting in dubai ended with a collective promise to transition away from fossil fuels.
Some cheered. Some remain sceptical. His jennifer morgan
secretary and special envoy for international climate action
germany, if you're, looking at the moment, we're in right now where the climate crisis is here and now. Thirty six
in people in eastern africa, with drought a three year: drought and you
king at having to have
global emissions africa needs to develop and we need to have an alternative development model to what we had thus far so weak.
and this is enough, but this is what we're trying to make happen through different partnerships provide
front models where africa
have to go.
through the same fossil fuel trap that we went through,
seeking a more sustainable way of doing things isn't just about averting a climate disaster. Last summer I went to one
extraordinary farm in sudden england to meet the
clean named isabella tree a champion of boy
diversity through ree wilding were always
to need, prime per day
the land for agriculture absolutely for food production, but we also
they need land for nature, we need to cleaner air, we need to our water, we need to bring back
diversity and we need to sequester carbon. We
producing enough food, we don't need more area for food production, but we
think much more cleverly about how we produce food and how we're going to sustain those systems. We go to remember that
planet is on fire climb.
change is an existential challenge for the human race. So too, if you believe some of the tec, gurus of our age is artificial intelligence. I ever more
sophisticated machine learning,
generative ay. I is already embedded in our lives bro. You know it could have written the words I'm using right now, as it happens it didn't. These words are all mine.
How do you know and how much
that matter well, listen first, too,
most of us suleiman ceo of inflection ay, I and co founder of deep mind, and then u s
economist daron Acemoglu,
new technologies, always bring very new challenges, and in this case there is the potential that very powerful systems will spread
far and wide, and I think that has the potential to pose really significant, catastrophic threats to the future of the nation state. So, for example,
technologies in the history of our species, to the extent that they have been incredibly useful. They ve always got cheaper, easier to use and therefore
have spread all around the world. If that
actually continues when we are actually talking about the creation of intelligence itself or in synthetic biology life itself? In some respects
these units of power are gonna, get smaller and smaller and smaller and spread far and wide everybody
thirty to fifty years may potentially get access to state like powers, I think, is a very important point that you know: hd wells, captured and
hi machine when he said when talking off
human dominion about nature. We forget that it's always entangled.
human dominion over other human. That's that
age or we are using a guy in a way
whose subjugate people reduce their autonomy, reduce their agency, reduce their contribution to production and that's being done. Nothing
she's have taken over, but because a small cadre of people are shaping.
Future of ai in
Twenty three hollywood writers went on strike partly over concerns that uncontrolled use of a I could cost created,
their livelihoods, it was
thing I discussed with leading british tv and theatre writer lucy preamble. Have you try every minute trades write, something in the style of lucy probable or have an exacting done that which is slightly shameful, and I am now.
something which is quite depressing up stuff. What you recognize
what its drawing from it isn't necessarily of a high quality, but his words be insulted by that or infused by that complicated, but
I'm reading them and I'm thinking- ok, so you are drawing on material it's available from me. So there was a copyright issues so that evans- that's rarely discussed, but
It may not be sophisticated yet, but it will be. It will be one day really sophisticated. I am worried about that later in this review of the hard talk here with a burst of positivity. I salute to the guests
senegalese musician Bobby mile who have made all the talk of conflict, division and suffering came
studio and reminded us of the importance of seizing moments of joy and
celebrating life happy
It could not for the menu got the cab yeah. My band got in damn got a mental.
Let me end with just a quick reminder that if you'd like to listen to in depth hon
thing interviews with news. Making personalities do search for hard talk wherever you get. Your bbc pod
fast hello, I'm katya adler, and this is the global story from the BBC world service. China and America came together and agreed on the climate issue. We have to look beyond the headlines, peel back lazy assumptions and give you a fresh global perspective on the stories. That matter. Is europe tiring at tubs of it, supports the crate and they will have to be some kind of negotiations to end this war, such for the global story. Wherever you get your bbc podcast.
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toyota. Electrified doesn't just mean plug a fight so whether it's a hybrid tundra, logan prayers were all electric busy for acts. The more ways we can choose to reduce carbon emissions, the closer we all get to toyota beyond zero vision, toyota, let's go places.
Transcript generated on 2023-12-28.