Are 11 million people suddenly facing deportation? What we know and don’t know about the Trump administration’s new plan for undocumented immigrants. Guests: Michael D. Shear, a White House reporter at The New York Times, and Caitlin Dickerson, a national reporter who writes about immigration; Sheriff Mark Napier of Pima County, Ariz. For more information on today’s episode, visit http://nyti.ms/2lc3H5e.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From the New York Times. I Michael Barbara. This is,
today. The trumpet,
ministration outlines a sweeping plan to find and expel undocumented immigrants in the United States
our eleven million people suddenly facing deportation and the local police officers Trump wants to enlist in those days
is this a job they want or can hand it's Wednesday February. Twenty second, this morning, secretary, Kelly in the Department of Homeland Security released mammals regarding the implementation of two of the president's executive orders that are designed to protect the homeland. One dealing
interior enforcement, and one dealing with border security. United States law is unambiguous. It is a weak
to be in this country without documentation. But enforcement of that law in the United States has always been full of ambiguity on Tuesday. That changed. Remember everybody who is here illegally is subjects removal at any time. That is consistent with every
every country not just hours, if you're in this country in an illegal manner that obviously that there's a provision that could could ensure that
remove these new members call for the federal government to aggressively enforce what Whitehouse Press Secretary Sean's by Sir said has always been a straightforward law. If this was any other, such
yet. This was tax evasion. We so what they really only violated a little bit of cheating on their taxes, a little at some point: laws or laws, and if people have a problem with the law, then we should operate
our law makers and in changing. This is a murky and confusing moment in the long history of american immigration. Not everything is known at this point, but two of my colleagues are here to help us understand what we do now. Michael Sheer is a White House reporter and Kalen Dickerson is a national
Order who writes about Immigration Kalen Michael, thank you very much for coming on things, you're happy to do it. So what is?
in these new rules from the White House released on Tuesday. What exactly changes as of right now so essentially, what this
Is it sweeps away all of the almost all of the previous guidance and policy from President Obama's administration
prior to that, the last administration had so many carve out for who could be in who couldn't be adjudicated that it made it very difficult for the customs enforcement people to do their job and enforce the laws in this country and basically embraces a kind of full force
Roche, in which, whatever immigration laws are on the books were not going to hold back any more, we are going to enforce them a hundred percent. The present wanted to take the shackles off Indonesia
in these agencies and say you have a mission,
our laws that need to be followed. You should do you
can involve law, the immigration officials they're not gonna, restrain themselves. They are going to be pursuing in almost all cases, the full extent of the law to try to find arrest, detain and ultimately deport folks here
This country, legally, as of today, based on these memos from the White House regarding immigration, who can be deported and under what circumstances right now. So it's just.
Bout anybody these memoranda seem to protect. People who came here
children and were granted protection under on Obama, administration programmed that's fairly narrow and outside of that group.
These open up any emigrant whose unauthorized, regardless unauthorized, regardless of their criminal record, regardless of how
They are where they live. How long they ve been here, they're all subject to deportation under these memories,
And many millions how many millions of people could we be talking about who are subject to this new memoranda
the best estimate now is roughly eleven million people. That's the best estimate for the entire undocumented population. I think the recipients of this
Obama Administration programme I mentioned, or around seven hundred, fifty thousand, so quick mouth or you're talking
potentially about more than ten million people. But it's really important to point out that the? U S has limited resources, for
quotation. So, just because ten million people now can be done,
it doesn't mean that they will, in fact, very far from it is this new set of rules,
a non document arrogant doing something wrong or just being an undocumented person in America. Is that now making you eligible to be deported
I think the point is that just being here without authorization is the wrong that qualify.
You for deportation, and certainly that's always been the case. It's not a new idea that you're supposed to get permission before you come into the United States and then so. This is the the president and the Secretary of Homeland Security sang Workin on follow up on that.
I'm not gonna. Let you get away with that anymore. I wanna know. How would present Trump is now outlining is different from what President Barack Obama outlined, or maybe the better question is how is a different from what President Obama actually got around to enforcing? Let me take a stab at that. Their sort of two different Obama administration euros in this regard. There is the beginning of the Obama administration when the President end and his administration really did aggressively go after folks who were here legally, they didn't it wasn't as broader is sweeping a policy as what was put in place by the Trump administration, but it was pretty aggressive and over the course of his administration, he departed about two.
Million people out of this country, which one immigrant advocate at one point called him: the deportees in chief. I remember that tonight, I'd like to talk with you about immigration. The thing to remember is that that contrasts with the latter part of his administration, when I took office, I committed to fixing,
this broken immigration system and I began
and by doing what I could to secure our borders, the president came to believe that
even as we are, a nation of emigrants were also a nation of laws. Undocumented workers.
Our immigration laws and I believe that they must be held accountable
those who may be dangerous. It was more important to pull back on those deportation
and that's why we're gonna keep focusing enforcement resources on actual threats to our security? He put in place a new policy. They really did direct the immigration enforcement people too
after serious criminals, felons not families, criminals, not children, gang
there's, not a mom was working hard to provide for kids and what they called recent border crossings. People who had just been illegally crossed the border and tried to get into this country and end the Obama policies made it a little bit easier to send those people back quickly because they hadn't establish themselves here and what that in practice meant is that if you were an illegal immigrant who has been in the country ten or fifteen years, you had much much less
to fear from the Obama administration tracking down rounding up and deporting millions of people isn't realistic.
Anyone who suggest otherwise, isn't being straight with you.
Also about who we are ass, Americans. I think we have to ask: are we looking had mass deportations shots bicycle
That question is one of the goals here. Mass deportation now then said. No, the message from this White House and from the age ass is that those people who are in this country and pose a threat to our public safety or have committed a crime will be the first to go and we'll be aggressively making sure that that occurs.
That that that is what the priorities and I think that the reality is. They don't have the resources to send out a huge force, the kind of rampages through the country looking for people, but there will still be. Has there always have been raids and enforcement efforts that world sweet people up in and whereas
for there were lots of categories of people who they said. You know what I can to make this person a priority, even if their caught up in a in a raid now those people will likely be be processed for deportation. So this new plan accounts for these resource challenges. We ve been talking about with something called expedited removals, Kalen
Can you explain what that is sure, so, right now to deport almost any one, they get to go before an immigration judge and plead their case. They don't get the right to an attorney. The way that you are, I would in a criminal court, but they can hire one if they want and because the courts have such limited
sources and such a large backlog. These cases average over an entire year that to take somebody from being arrested on the street
supporting them in this,
Spanish of a concept called expedited removal, basically truncates, that process drastically,
it means that you don't get to go to before a judge. You don't get to go to court and plead your case. You know, do not pass go, do not click two hundred dollars, you you're going right away, and in the past these could only be used on people who
just recently entered the country within the last two weeks and who
within one hundred miles of the border. The idea is that you're still in transit and sudden really made it harder, the country, no, you don't have ties to the country yet and more importantly, you don't have the constitutional protection of due process, because you're still considered in transit or not considered in the United States, now the way that this memoranda seeks to change. That protection is to say that
Anybody who has been in the country for up to two years can be subject to expedite, add remove all this is really significant because you can start a fan
In two years you can buy a home in two years. You can start a business in two years and you can be
much further, north or south, then the borders with Canada and Mexico, and now any of those people can be deported without going before a judge
So it's expanding the notion of when it's right and justifiable to put you backward,
came from without there being ignored.
Consequences in the eyes, I guess of the law and without any chance for you to please your case as to why you think you deserve to stay and Kalen. Would you
That actually starts to look like day one day, one. I think
it starts to look like increased enforcement. These two memoranda and the executive orders put an immense amount of power in the hands of gesture every day, border patrol and ice officer, and so that looks like
No everyday encounters with the unauthorized population could end in
partition, whereas before you had to fit a certain category, you had to be a certain priority has to be a criminal, for example. Now
you can really happened to anybody theirs
be a lot of places in the country, a lot of border patrol offices rate that are still going to prioritize, regardless of what
oh that are still gonna stay in others. You know some in a border office in you know this centre of text.
Or whatever is still gonna, say to themselves. You know what, if we ve got only four
agents in this little office, let's go after the guy, that's committed murder and let's go after the. You know the real,
beings in whatever and we're not going to go after little old lady, you Seward knitting in their knitting club. Right, like the truth, is that's probably how it still plays out in the White House would, at least today
I would like us to believe that that's gonna be a kind of system wide thing, but I think what we're talking about as these memos and the memos themselves do the opposite. They don't do what the Obama folks did, which was to specifically direct folks
in that direction. In the memos basically say you know, we're gonna
Forced the law fully, regardless of what you ve done.
Michael Peel, and thank you very much. Thank you. Think's Bobby
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Down on unauthorized immigration will rely on two groups of law enforcement officials, federal agents whom he controls and look
police, whom he does not
The willingness of local authorities to participate in the president's plan varies dramatically, depending on the region, its politics and the leadership in these towns and cities.
In Pima County Arizona along the border with Mexico. Undocumented immigrants are a fact of life. The sheriff there is Republican Mark Napier
sheriff Nuclear, hey sheriff. It's Michael bar borrow from the New York Times. How are you I'm very well? Thank you great, and this will probably be the first interview we ever done from inside. A police car are yours.
Desire, I'm pretty pretty cited. If I could be honest, if the other we go good. So how
closely have you followed these
those that came out of the White House today. What course we're looking at it, but there's no others still not a hundred percent clarity on what all this means when it comes down to local level, law enforcement and still remains fairly clear were hearing, the local police could be. Deputized basically could become a kind of immigration officer under this plan. If that's the case, is that something you'd support and would participate in an ear county simply do not have the capacity. This morning I have about eight hundred and forty people in our jail.
Before about you out, and the other problem for me is that I don't have a lotta deputies right now, I'm sitting around wondering what to do. I'm staff to provide traditional, long or service the people of Cuba County now put it in perspective. I know it's hard to imagine a more Europe, but my county is nine thousand two hundred square miles and it has a population of about a million people so to provide traditional law enforcement servers to an area that is larger than some state is a very big challenge, and am, I simply don't have the excess capacity?
To engage in Prague in federal immigration enforcement Harry, I hear your police car door opening, there's only you get in here. So how do your police officers currently handle undocumented immigrants when you encounter them well, when large companies encounter of somebody in this country legally, it's it's almost always the resolve of the investigation of some other criminal activity or some call for service, and when we determine that a person may be in this country without proper documentation. We would then called
guttural bodies- border told, come over and assess the person was respected immigration status. Can I ask you just to summarize for me your own view, as sheriff on how undocumented immigrants should be handled in Timor,
Is it the way its currently being done? Why should it be done differently from our standpoint were very comfortable with our current practices? Now, what should the federal government be doing? What that's really a question for the proper administration of the federal government to decide?
what is the appropriate walls are want force whenever these laws change. There's a discussion and debate about
there are those who are here illegally
the afraid to interact with the government, even when it's probably the right time to interact with the government
of a fear that any basic interaction might lead to deportation as a law enforcement lead.
Is that something you worry about the absolute and why was from a public policies, can't wait its counter to our mission, provide a safe environment to be blocking the county is a portion, and perhaps even a significant portion of our people are afraid to interact with us out of fear of the enforcement of.
General immigration, if someone were to you, now, be shot out. As you know it,
in a world using it as an example. That person would be unable to call for assistance,
Yes, the wife were being battered by her husband. She would be reticent to contact law enforcement for fear of deportation. I think from a public policy standpoint were tread. None kind of precarious
around here for those who don't live on the border, but imagine that border security is a big part of local police life.
This may be a surprise that the? U very much view it as federal, is not because
This does not become a major part of crime in your account,
Oh, no, that is our region of the power of the state and local and federal law enforcement in all my particular county. As a hundred twenty five mile exposure to international border. Clearly, we have you known: Arctic, Strap, again, assaults on all manner of crime associated with illegal immigration, and we address those crimes, but that separate from you know the actual enforcement of immigration law. So no absolutely illegal, I should does poles, are, without a doubt, a public safety problem, and it also
I'd for national security problem because, frankly, we don't know who's coming through the border, but we know the borders not to cure. It is not its, not even a course gall got it now. You not answer this because the ballot box is a sacred and private place, but you are republican, so you'll have this question: did you support don't run for president? I would plead the fifth. I was and broiled in my own political aid- and I gotta say my focus- was pretty much on running for office in county of a million people there
is much larger than a lotta congressional district while sheriff. Thank you very much. I can hear from the sound through your car that you are busying, so I am going to let you go and thank you very much. I wish these were simple issues there nod in you know, I'm just this past weekend, my deputies in the western part of our county
were covered. Skeletal remain the deserts of a western theme, the county, I would wager guessed it on
Lee, while the only sure seeing that it states that one of my district stations as an industrial freezer outside of it going store body that we recover in a desert of people trying to cross the border
in the process. Well, you people are trying to cross the border or drug traffickers at are involved in violence in the desert, but this is a region.
Occurrence in southern Arizona. We find it was to this past week. You thank you very much for having wonderful day. Thank you. You do.
Here's what else you need to know that President Trump,
spoke out against Anti Semitism on Tuesday. He called it a horrible and painful after nearly
and volume threats were called into jewish community centres across the country and a major.
Cemetery was vandalized. It was the day after his daughter of vodka, who is Jewish called for religious tolerance.
And Republicans home for congressional
as our hearing in Europe for Town Hall Meetings is considerable.
Our demanding to know what will happen to the affordable care act under president. Try and finally,
the universe is expanding too fast.
Cosmo- have discovered a discrepancy in the value of a number called the Hubble constant, which
describes the growth of the universe
if it is real? One scientists told the times we will learn new physics
The news would seem to confirm the fears of my young alter ego, avi singer
Woody Allen, nineteen, seventy seven film, Annie Hall, while the Annie
is expanding Sunday or break apart and how will mean the end of every? What is that your business start during his home?
Why have the universe got to do with your hearing? Problem has not expanding, that's it for the daily. I Michael Barbara Serum World,
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Transcript generated on 2020-07-19.