Since 2016, the cardinal rule of Republican politics has been to defend Donald J. Trump and his allies at all costs, no matter the allegation. That appeared to change last week, when Texas lawmakers issued 20 articles of impeachment against their state’s attorney general, Ken Paxton, a powerful Trump supporter.
J. David Goodman, the Houston bureau chief for The New York Times, explains what the escalating conflict in Texas indicates about tensions within the party.
Guest: J. David Goodman, the Houston bureau chief for The New York Times.
Background reading:
- The extraordinary vote on impeachment exposed rifts among Texas Republicans and set the stage for a showdown in the State Senate.
- The escalating conflict between moderates and hard-liners in one of the Republican Party’s most important states highlights tension over the future of the party.
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
From your times, I'm like of along on this is a daily today, since twenty six
steam. The cardinal rule of republican politics has been to defend donald trump and his allies at all costs. No
what the allegation. So why did republic
law makers in texas just greek that by voting to impeach the states,
far right attorney general, my colleague, David goodman, explains its winston may thirty first David, just to begin remind us what
KEN paxton, represents two national republicans across the country. What really ken paxton has made himself into a kind of hero of the right at this point? He's really seen as pray, the most effective and throwing the most aggressive of the republican attorney generals in the country
because of the losses that he's been filing over his now three terms in office
these part of a conservative legal movement. That really is hoping and aggressively trying to use the law to pursue policy goals, another day
the lawsuit on Wednesday, texas attorney general comparison defiled a new one against the federal government. The he's filed, lawsuit after lawsuit go back to the obama era. Texas state
Turning general can pass in is accusing the obama administration of overstepping its authority when it told public schools to let transgender students use the restrooms that correspond with their gender identity is a big thorn in the side of of that of industries in and then went from comes into office. Pivots india lines
off with him can paxton leading a pack of twenty states pushing to get off
mama care officially killed anybody
is filing legal briefs in defense of the policies that the trump administration is pursuing. The president's latest attempt to overturn the election is a lawsuit brought by texas attorney general KEN paxton. You know he's out there at the end of two thousand and twenty fighting against the results,
of that election he's requesting the supreme court, invalidate results, enforce wing states by one and that something that is a huge political milestone for him. This afternoon, trump held a conveniently timed lunch with republican attorneys general, including can packs
It's. What really gets him the enduring support of died from
is so ass to be here. I want you to know the texas fights he appears with trump and speaks a trump.
You six rally wild straight lawsuits related a male and ballots. We thought we want every single one of those cases and because of that donald trump, one texas, by over six hundred thousand bones, and even after trumps, not an office, you still there defending the trump administration, he files briefs to try and keep a trump administration.
This is in place early on in the bite administration. He was able to challenge ending of the trump era policy of romania, mexico, which had
I grant staying in mexico while they awaited immigration hearings, and he is actually forced by demonstration to restart that trump air policy kind of single handedly exactly and is not only that he files some suits you file. So many you know, you'll just find him suing over mass requirements in airports and airplanes. You know he fought the binding ministration over workplace policies
gender pronouns and so he's really put himself in the middle of these big fight and really leading the charge on so many of them.
Is winning many of them and even when he's losing he's forcing a public debate and also a sort of legal coming up. This is
a delay in implementation or a reconsideration in some cases and and he's really sort of winning the battle on the right. For where the conversation
should be right, and I think that that is why all of us were so
stand when a few days ago can paxton was suddenly impeached by republicans who control the texas legislature, because
begins of paxton stature, who are allies of trump are, by definition, defended by fellow republicans, their unimpeached by them. We see that over and over and over again, no matter how grave the sin that's committed by europe.
We again, but in this case that didn't happen, and so we want to understand why, in this case, a hero of the trump wing, other vulgar party was taken out rather than defended
help us understand why this one played out so differently than we have come to expect. But it's really fascinating and took almost everyone in texas by surprise, primarily because a lot of the things that can paxton has been accused of people in texas
for years, he's been in trouble almost from the moment he took office, he was facing accusations during his first campaign,
for attorney general that he had essentially given investment advice without being properly registered. To do so and right after he was elected in two thousand and fourteen, he was indicted for that a felony crime, and so suddenly you have the newly elected top law enforcement official under felony state indictment, and it didn't seem like his political career, was going to take off in the way that it had at that moment made. That does not seem
the best possible start to the time his attorney general break. So it's not even the only thing that you know he is accused of doing improperly during his first term, and you know, he's also accused of various other sorts of misdeeds, most famously in texas. He was accused of having stolen it, the thousand dollar mont blanc
pan out of a security line at the local county court house and and he's actually seen on surveillance
video doing this, and he eventually says it was misunderstanding and returns the pan. But these are the kinds of things that we sort of wrapped up in during his his first term and
makes them seem vulnerable, but at the same time as that's happening, his current wrapping himself in
the wing of the republican party, that is ascendant engine and that's you know, nor more clear than with the election of donald trump, where you can paxton and sees that as the direction of the parties going in its willie, where he is he's. Quite a conservative
politician, as attorney general and he uses his office to essentially go too bad for the new trump administration and by doing so
if he's able to make the argument that he's an effective fighter and an ally of a very popular president, at least among republicans in texas, and so despite all his troubles, you know by the time we get to the election of twenty eighteen, like his misdeeds, are part of the attack ads that are being run against.
You know the surveillance, video of him stealing the pen is an attack, add from his democratic opponent, but you know it just doesn't resonate, and so he goes to voters in anyone's reelection. So Paxton successfully in
wade's himself against all these political and legal liability. By telling republicans
I am your ally of donald trump,
see me the way you see him. Don't worry about my alleged personal conduct, reelect me and I will champion your cause. That's right. I mean he really does play into that sort of notion of just fighting for your team and voting for your team, and then we get to twenty twenty and we sort of have. You know everything happen again, although much worse for KEN Paxton,
too many men well, what is happening in twenty twenty is that many of his most senior aids inside the attorney general's office come out publicly and accused him of abusing his office, of possibly taking bribes of corruption and requesting an investigation by the fbi
ha issue here? Are allegations that ten pacts in
it was his office to benefit a wealthy political donor
was under investigation by the fbi and also facing a lawsuit and the reason the ledge those
He has used the office of attorney general to benefit a particular friend and donor local austin real estate developer named naipaul. The whistle blower lawsuit allege that packs and help Paul gain access to investigative documents, documents that related to the twenty nineteen fbi. I search of Paul's business and home sales, and that he's helped the stone
and in return, the donors helped him. The whistleblowers allege that in return policy pacts in twenty five thousand dollars to his campaign, which allegedly
two remodeling his home and employing paxton mistress
so this is really adding up to quite unless for contacts, that's right,
these topics are really important: voices in sort of conservative legal circles in texas. These are not folks who in are coming from the left. Reveled been leftover from a previous administration. These are folks who are brought in to be sort of part of this fight. That can faction is engaging in against federal government policies and suddenly you have these folks saying what KEN Paxton is doing with the office is not right. We wouldn't stand,
for it and we think it might be criminal and in response the attorney general turns around and fires them hm, basically punishes them for speaking out against him right, and it should be said that KEN Paxton has denied that. That's the reason that these aids in many cases were let go. This is now being disputed. But what's not disputed is that these folks were conservatives who objected to what he was doing and as his reelection comes up in two thousand and twenty two once again, paxton is facing a really serious challenge to his political prospects.
So much so that the republican primary and in twenty two is just as all out scrap of different people who think they can beat him and its major names from texas politics, including george p bush, the son of jobless. What taxes deserve that
We have an attorney general, that's facing criminal indictment and in a bush during the campaign,
quickly mentions these legal issues denies away to attacks. Allegations entities is innocent as it proclaims, then why
business exercises six amendment right to a speedy trial by his peace,
because we all know the answer he's guilty and in so doing that primary, which is incredibly hard, fought all that
Different candidates were major figures in the republican party in the state are trying to get doll. Trumps endorsement,
saying that they should have it, and then they came back. Some really doesn't deserve to stay in that office and in the end trump ends of staying with, can back
Everyone knows who he is, he's been the most effective attorney general and we think he's just a great guy get out and its largely because peace
in fact, and be with him for all these years, and he just seize him as an ally. That's been there and then trump at his most critical moment is therefore can baxter
he's done a terrific job for texas and for our country- and he has my complete and total endorsement
but sick. The entire universe of come supporters greetings to all my a mere,
the first conservatives. In alone, store estate from some
on junior kin. Paxton is a true fighter
what has led the way for the maga movement and certainly ends up winning reelection again in two thousand and twenty two and this time, by an even larger margin than he did four years earlier wow. So his problems have actually gotten even worse, but his margin of victory has gotten even bigger because he is still wrapping himself quite successfully in the flag of trumpism. That's right. I mean he comes out of that election
both victorious and feeling aggrieved in this kind of way, that's very familiar from the trunk presidency and it during his victory party
what to say the points that might demise and been greatly exaggerated. He talks about how he's not safe
just because we wanted. I find is that, if they're going to continue to come after me, they're going to continue to come after texas they're going to continue to come after republicans around the country and that these people they're going to keep coming after, not just him. But you know his voters, you, the people of texas,
he represents have to fight for individuals we're here to fight for our neighbors and our privacy, as we will continue to do that. God bless you. Thank you for giving me another
and a more fully aligned himself with that kind of trump voter that sees attacks on their favorite politicians as attacks on them personally, and that something that he are to draw a line to right. After being reelected late. Last year,
and so there's really a feeling that it can paxton is in austin to stay and there's even a joke going around the texas capitol that, after the nuclear war, there's going to be bees, there's going to be roaches and there's going to be KEN paxton and the idea of that joke is that nothing I mean nothing could get KEN paxton out of the job of attorney general.
Go
I'll, be right back.
I'm carol, rosamond from the new york times right now,
sitting alone in the press room at the. U S, navy basic one time a bay. I probably spent around two thousand nights at this navy base
I've been coming here since hormone
after the nine eleven attacks. I watched them
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me out of reach of american journalism. We have a duty to keep coming back.
Splain, what's going on here, the new york times takes you too difficult and controversial places. It keeps you informed about unpopular and hard to report. Developments and
takes resource. You can power that kind of journalism by subscribing to the new york times so David. What is at the ends of changing this equation, disrupting this dynamic and this playbook that
been so successful in shielding paxton from the repercussions of his alleged misconduct. So the thing that really changes everything is that earlier are this year. Paxton comes to the state legislature and asked them for millions of dollars to settle his legal dispute with the folks he fired from the office before
Aids would accused paxton of s conduct and, in some cases, were forced out see merely as a result, exactly four of those former deputies actually sued paxton for wrongful termination
and that case was moving along earlier this year, and then they reach a settlement which is that they dropped the lawsuit. If can back,
paid them three point three million dollars, and so can paxton went to the state legislature who funds is office,
and asked them for the money to settle this loss. It an attack. This house really box at this. They don't want to do it, and what we didn't know at the time is that this request for money is what spurs house to start investigation into,
the underlying conduct behind this request, and so they assign for prosecutors to begin looking into the accusations that these former aids have lodged against, can paxton and all this is happening behind closed doors in unbeknownst to really any one in the capital. Besides a small group, until last week, when this committee of the house has been looking into it, comes forward and says, here's what we ve been doing for the last few months.
and here's what we think should be done about it. We think that they should be impeached members and so look up.
Later on saturday, mistress, bigger,
call up the privilege, resolution age or two three, seven, seven in
aging Warren Kenneth, paxton attorney general theirs?
very solemn, actually gathering of all of those members in
chamber to debate this for about four hours I began. This way
with no idea that the house was considering impeaching, the attorney general now
You are preparing to remove him from office before the day is out.
is no need to rush to judgment on demands
those in authority use their power to try him and remove him from office not to seek political advantage, but out of compunction. May god help us to pass this test. That is before us
and ultimately, they take a vote to impeach contacts and on twenty articles of amusement of all members
they ve been hunted twenty one thousand twenty three nieces. The resolution is adoption.
eighty five republican members, sixty of them vote in favour of impeachment
which means immediately add that moment, taxes
primarily removed as a state attorney general, so David. This is the key question. What exactly had changed here, because can pakistan up to this point is still
This magua hero attorney general, who has just been endorsed by donald, try,
and donald junior and has been fighting the liberals
we spent one lawsuit at a time. So what's suddenly inspired these texas house republicans to turn on balanced and and goes so far as to actually impeach him because, as you have said throughout,
episode. So much of this information has been available for sole law right. That was the argument that is, defenders were making is that this is not new and in fact he was just reelected by voters
with this information, you know only a few months earlier, but what really seems to have changed for the Republicans that voted to impeach was that now KEN Paxton was trying to get them into his
mass essentially boom. He wanted them to vote for settling a lawsuit based on what he had done and in a certain sense, as some of the republicans who spoke during the preceding said, he was trying to make them complicit in his activities and I think fascinating. That was the bridge that, for many was too far that this was a attorney general. That was now ask
and them to say, you did nothing wrong, and this is okay and right, because if they approve that money, they were in a sense approving of his conduct by paying off his accusers his former employees right. They would have been part of the effort to essentially cover it up and
They didn't want to be part of that, but there is also something else it play, which is the political character of the texas house. This is a body that, for structural reasons, is more moderate and many of the republicans who our representatives in it are not, as you sort of lockstep, with what donald trump wants, or even with that
of the party wants its much more rooted in a more traditional texas republican posture and they have their own voters at home, who are in districts that are relatively more suburban, in some cases, a little more urban. And so you have this body that has increasingly found itself really at odds and sometimes at open political or with the more concern
a more assertive trump aligned when the party in texas coming out in making this stand and drawing this line and saying that they are not going to stand for, can pack stands accused actions in this
since, if he wants to bring them into it, come what will politically right of the geographic and demographic reality of these texts.
House districts allows these health from obligations to vote, to do something that would to the outside world. Look incredibly hard, which has impeach, can paxton in this moment right, and it really is reflecting the sort of debate at that's been running the republican party, which is over the future direction of the party and really in texas. This debate is front and centre because of the demographic changes and the organization that's happening here. You have some republicans who believe that.
the party needs to better appeal to the growing cities in the state, and then there are others who believe that no, you know the party needs a step closer to its principles, more like what can packed in representing as lawsuits and what donald trump represents in and some of his actions and the house more represents aside. That says, if we're going to survive in a knot in two years and five years, but in ten years in a state that is becoming increasingly urban, increasingly diverse,
and beat democrats, we can't go so far in this direction of you know anything goes. I think it's that debate over where to take the party that is being reflected in this impeachment battle.
But when we try to understand why the situation, when the way that it did why these sixty texas-
If republicans decided to break the rules,
one of the republican party and do what the vast majority
congressional republicans refused to do twice when it came to.
reaching tromp we should see.
decision in a few ways, first, that they could tolerate pacts and problems when they were Pakistan's problems, but the minute paxton tried to make it the legislator problems. They said
enough is enough. Second, because so many of these taxes house republicans represent moderate districts.
we're voters are not in the thrall of tromp or paxton. These Republicans could afford, politically speaking, to vote their conscience. And finally, it sounds like a law. These texas house Republican saw this food as having potential
political upside because they know Texas is changing and it's becoming bluer and these house republicans
our kind of looking into the future and
seeing a text that will be less red,
and less beholden to far right republicans, like KEN paxton,
right, I mean that really is the open question here. Whether these house republicans are more clearly seeing the direction of the state of texas than those associated with can paxton or whether bees then the right about where the party is going and a lot of the
going to get sorted out relatively quickly. Over the summer there will be a trial of can Baxter and in the state senate, which is a much more conservative body than the state house and others not two thirds of senators there to convict him
axton will be acquitted and he'll immediately resume the office of attorney general and if KEN paxton is not convicted, if he's acquitted- and he goes back to being a gee, what's going to happen to those texas house republicans who followed their heart and their principles
and went out on something of a limb. Why think? We're really gonna test the question of how safe there districts really are for them to take. This kind of vote
I already heard from people aligned with with can paxton that you know looking for a bloodbath in the next primary election, that they're going to run republicans against these these members and they expect to be able to beat them to replace these folks folks been been as a moderate force in texas politics and I think we'll see whether that comes to pass, but really beyond can Paxton what what might be the result of of all of this is a reshaping of the political dynamic and the forces at play in republican politics and the largest republican state, the nation bright, because contacts and is promising to use the power
mary process, the next primary process to punish these house republicans who, as you said, think therein safe districts. But we all know that it doesn't take that many republican voters should come out and support. Perhaps a paxton trump backed republican candidate to make that person the nominee. And if that happens, it enough seats across the texas house, they couldn't have take out a bunch of this house republicans and that would very much change the meaning of can pack since impeachment
Because the lesson would be very different, that it is right now that these were bold, courageous house republicans following principle over party. Instead, this case this rare exception that broke
wall of republicans defending other republicans would end up being a store.
About. Why it is very unwise to follow your principle over your party that this would be a kind of cautionary tale. That you know, republicans who are foolhardy enough to take on someone like can paxton will be punished for doing so. Well,
their seat and what we may end up seeing coming out of this whole impeachment process is a texas house that
no longer acts as a
wall or as a kind of alas, check on the most sort of right, leaning impulses of the party and intentionally crumbles and leaves texas more fully in the hands of the most conservative. Most trump align most hard core elements for some time but David. Thank you very much with the ship. I think your enemy
All right back, here's what else you need cannot or today not want republican should both for this deal. It is a bad deal,
on tuesday and hard right house republic gets were in open revolt over the dew reached by speaker, Kevin Mccarthy and president Biden. To avoid a: u s default sing.
that it failed to sufficiently reign in the size of government. The house is expected took
asked the deal later today, with support from moderates in both parties, but during a noose contrast, several,
the chamber's most conservative republicans, including representative chip roy of texas, said they would seek to defeat it. We will continue to fight it today tomorrow and no matter what happens? There is going to be a reckoning about what just occurred unless we stop this bill by tomorrow,
At least a drugs targeted moscow on tuesday in the first attack, two hits
vivian areas of the city. Since this
of russia's war on ukraine. Ukraine denied
responsibility but is widely believed to be behind. The attacks which appeared in
tended to instil the scene terror in residents of moscow that russia has created
mom residents of ukraine's capital keep today's episode.
Produced by Carlos creator. Stella ten are still other baby enriching the vets. It was edited by ritual
esther contains original music by dan power, Marian lazard o alicia eat
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that's funny. I might have see bar seed.
Transcript generated on 2023-06-03.