From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barbara. This is today as a businessman, Donald Trump didn't just get sued, he took things to court by choice over and over and of his career? Administrate was defined by his legal battles, but why Will they mean for his presence? It fright joy, Sup. Does anybody know more about litigation than from ok I know a lot, I'm like a phd in litigation, ok, Jonathan more How many lawsuits has Donald Trump been avoided

I don't have an exact tally for you right now, but well over four thousand four thousand or if that's that's a huge number enormous. Why is huge AUS? How is it well in a certain sense? Donald Trump is lawsuits that sort of putting Donald trumps brand. He started did suing people really as soon as he started his career and started getting sued in. This sort of never stopped, and for him it's just part of how he operates. It almost doesn't matter whether he wins a lawsuit or loses a lawsuit. It's the active suing, the active litigating that seems to serve serve up serve a kind of purposeful What tell you you mean does: does he like suing people does he is something about Donald Trump that invites the lawsuits against him. I would say birth, I think, he's like suing people and I think that he basic we see the law not as something that he needs. Tourists will be sensitive to, but

Other almost as sort of a blunt instrument that he can wield and so he hires lawyers, who adopt a similar point of view and who, Who don't tell him about this. This is not legal, that's not legal! They tell him. You know how he can pull something off. So I mean it's it's an unusual view of the law, so you mention where's yeah. I imagine that there are many many lawyers in Donald Trump slave who are these people. The typical trump lawyer is tough, bear knock old, not afraid to fight not cost s not careful, but some one who plaza Ed, who likes to sort of projecting image of toughness of an unwilling to compromise over, the years he's had said a handful of lawyers who have been been,

sort of trusted litigators, and in that group I would include Sir first and foremost the original Rico. The infamous right, tell me tell me about him was interest. Roy cone is infamous because He was Senator Joe Mccarthy's kind of right hand, man and conciliatory during the communist witch hunts. Communist bodied, more important work is that at the night and the EP and the Soviet Union, which means that it is both right. Our government bent plant every important rights activists in order to deal information from us and give it to the Soviet Union. That is one thing. The trumpet would do back, go backwards, come was his lawyer. Is he he would keep a photograph of him in his drawer and died when he was dealing with her contract or someone who was was being was being difficult? He would pull the photograph of rock on out of his drawer answer Brandishin say: do you want to deal with this guy and why I can

of showing some one way? It was a sort of it was. It was a form of intimidation, it was a threat. It was a form of of bullying, you could say, and so you know, I think you see that that the way that Roy Cone went about his business was was essentially to threaten people and to intimidate people, and he would he would file lawsuits that were frivolous, clearly frivolous, but that for were were threatening in their own way, we're menacing in their way one of grown favorite legal vacuum. That is to make it a rent, everyday opposition. I've got a couple of years I can confirm that is the way we operate. But we want to do away with a little by little and bring the person and let them think that oreland troubles over and weeping second, let them same thing- and I am always

the way you punish people on the other side is by making the mire lawyers, and I think the cone had a view of how the law could be used again, a sort of a tool or a weapon almost and saw that in Trump in many ways so adopted at learned it when people the papers. I just hope they understand at one blow suing was very difficult about Islam in wood level, as you know that I'm sure, as well as anybody Machine opposition, you gotta prove militias and tat. You really do and I look at things and I do watch and I do love because I'd love to grab some of these guys are really what I really want them to make a mistake, as I really would like to do it now, because I'm a sewer, but I really love to be able to knock a couple of how about a black after cone, the guy who should have handled a lot of his his litigation again him J Goldberg? goober. What sort of a classic New York City, White Collar Criminal Defence lawyer, who trump for

brought onto handle his his first divorce miracle work? Can you tell me about the first time that you met? Donald Trump was how they, following an argument with my wife and I went to Greenwich Village, because somebody told me a beautiful place, negligee purchase, so I went down there. I was in Greenwich Village when my people went out. That's why I went to a telephone Secretary Year set down, chum called and gave me a telephone number. I hold a telephone number and trim said that this is done. I said yes, he said. Are you familiar with? My case? Has again I read it in the newspapers he shall do. Would you be interested in being involved? In that case, I said yes,

we'll meet me in my office, said three o clock and it so I went to his office to your clock and measures for the first time. I saw two questions. One were you able to buy than lingerie and number two, which case are you talking about? I have on our trump the matrimony split with New York like the third world We all realise the whole story about the here about a bigger than dynasty better than dollars and spicy or than general hospital. It has ever for money to intrigue power to exotic locations, and it starts a couple that it, recently where among New York City is most glamorous it coast are the sexy, tract of younger woman, of course, Trump Verses Trump, and why you down very year,

excited the average reader. Larger and larger report is dead, one lawyer after another went to his office and offered to handle the case without a fee? and just what just for the publicity? Yes in his book, the I'll come back to write his offers resemble the emergency room. Set of patients. There were lawyers crowded around reserves, and no I never got to buy the likely J, but I made up with wife and because I told her I got a call from call from Donald Trump Trump Sound Goldberg, because he saw him listed in an article in a magazine. No longer no longer exist and call seven days, and it was a future story about,

this sort of toughest litigators in the city was called the courtroom. Killers and Goldberg was was one of the guys mentioned in agriculture as a killer as a courtroom killer. Gilbert had never done a divorce before how important was it and how explicitly did Donald Trump say to you if he wanted to win the case that he wanted to prevail? Donald, wanted the agreement upheld it's as simple as that there was a very long negotiation. It was very interesting. It may portend the way he can lux himself during the negotiation which started about seven o clock at ten o clock. He left he left the meeting the lawyers.

No and where was Trump, he was gone. Nobody knew where he was. Everybody became highly ass. He came back after two and a half hours and the people was so agitated and upset and weakened emotionally that they agreed to settle the case he used to technique

From the atmosphere was now your recommendation that he leave, or that was just his own idea now now zone I do everybody was have high. I will spare you upset myself. Where was he? Where was he? How typical is that of doubt that he does his own thing when it comes to allow in dealing with him? It never happened. We had

so many little geishas. He was the soldier following orders. So since the sullen time from the so called general, don't forget, he went to where military, school and humming command and the client has the power to ensure that you're, the general and under the general and Trump as the soldier. He had to listen to me, but not this time he had his own idea as to how the case

the saddle, do you think the trump seeks to use your word generals when he hires lawyers now seeks to be the general himself buck. It didn't happen with me, because I made crystal clear then that I was in charge and I received a letter from him in two thousand and twelve as it reads as follows: there has never been a lawyer more important to me, then you, it is very important to me that you know that,

It was on his personal stationary, so he had to say that with Secretary get me my personal state, any underlined. It is very important to me that you know that and he wrote that January. Ninth, two thousand toil and then in April fourth of two thousand sixteen, he wrote

we met and J. I miss you bought. Rima is your wife, yes September twenty eight, two thousand fifty he rode J. I love you both Mr Gaubert. You sound quite affection at Ed's, as you read these letters we ass ease, he said better. Certainly them times would have the citizens believe he's a tender person. Let me ask you this: do you think he loves you for winning, or does he love you for being J Goldberg? Well, he did so many things. Tat were tender when my wife had risks,

it, wouldn't allow her to drive to have powers to the home page Hampton. He flew her by helicopter, while when my yet private law was but surely an operation. I was virtually bedridden even though you by ground as construction man, he said well I'll make you the head of a man is a t, Plaza Hotel, save him be dressed in a suit tie the walk around and earn money and not have to do any yet manual labor and eat? He did these things.

So why wouldn't? I have a great deal of affection for him, but I dont know that that affection would be reciprocated with a lawyer who lost what you're talking about it seems is a level of love and affection that is conditional upon. When I dont know what that's not true, because I dont know that you're just not sure you just not sure that it exist in absolutely exist with the with losses. I doubt it. Can I ask you: do you love Trump, because you be

Is he wins? No, I never told you that I am expecting me. He he has say philosophy. Don't tell me how it can't be done. Tell me how it can be done and he was sir if Rowley prevailed in every case, so We had to be you're, probably right. What are some examples of jobs? Interaction but the law. Sure I mean taken office right right off the bat I mean, if you, if you look at the travel ban, is, is a perfect example. I mean a a different president would make sure that an executive order of that magnitude is carefully carefully vetted, if not written by a team. Of lawyers? I mean that is neither did the main issue.

Travel ban is, is it can be legal? It can we constitutional, but instead you have Trump had had Stephen Miller, a political adviser right. The ban- it seemingly was not carefully added at all end, and that explains why it has been struck down by us session of judges. So that's one example. You know his his handling of of so many things. I mean having a private dinner with the director of the FBI when your president, who is investigating your camp in everything just just having that dinner, is layer, might have told him down? Not don't do it, don't do it, but but the whole point is that he doesn't want his lawyers to to keep him out of trouble. That's not what their therefore, now that's sort of a striking notion of of of what a lawyer supposed to do, because it was of course, most people view their lawyers. As

as some people would like to keep around precisely. For that reason, just tell them not to do exactly. This is keep your fingers clean. Yes, yes, you can't that's too far. You can't say this. You can't say that you can't do this. You can't do that. We need to pull back here or elsewhere in working to create trouble. Ourselves and dumb. That is not ever what Donald Trump wants to her from lawyers and thus It is never what he does here from, whereas because he hires lawyers who will never tell him that those lawyers tend to not be the kinds of lawyers you see in Washington and they tend to not be the kinds of lawyers you see. Politicians and property president's surround themselves with very different type. Blogger. What has he adjusted his behaviour? Not approach over the centuries

his approachable hasn't changed at all since November. I think that's correct, I mean I don't I don't see any evidence of it. I mean I really doubt Washington is a place of norms and of rules and a place where those norms and rules are taken very seriously. And Donald Trump does not like to play by the rules, and he doesn't like lawyers who tell him he needs to play by the rules and in a frankly you can look at em. So many of the things that Trump has done and the trouble he's gotten himself into through this lands of the law and so? Many of the issues that have come up our things it's so easily could have been avoided if he had surrounded him. So with with lawyers. If you listen to lawyers or as you say, if you wanted to avoid them and if he cared to, I mean I think that he doesn't care too, but is it? Is it really about listening to a lawyer or is it possible

that down from the developer coming to Washington was in some ways always going to court. These legal issues, because in some ways he maybe enjoys the legal conflicts, I think, That's that's right and in some ways I think that that is a different way of saying what I was saying earlier, which is the Donald Trump Sort is lawsuits. His whole career has been just one law soon after another and in so clearly, if, if, if he did like engaging in legal combat? He wouldn't do it so for him, it's just part of his. For now. There is, moreover, vocabulary is just part of his. His his daily diet is, is just like.

Patient me. He doesn't mind. It is, though legal combat is sort of his natural state in so there's no reason to think he's. Gonna stop courting it. Frankly, Jonathan more! Thank you very much, my pleasure. I got his saddle this case numerous times, but I don't want to settle cases when we're right. I don't believe in it and when you start saddling cases you're what happens, everybody because you get noticed that when one thing about me, I am not notices that will drive back support for the daily comes from tee in tee. Presenting the aliens angel of Darkness the all new season of the acclaimed Emmy Award winning television series at the turn of the twentieth century, uncover a dark and sinister trail of death and deceit as an intrepid team of crime, solvers reunite to hunt and elusive killer day

brutal Luke, Evans and Dakota Fanning story and the alien is angel of darkness. The only he's in premier, Sunday July, nineteen, thirty, nine, eight central, anti Anti go to the elitist dot com for more here's what else you need to know today. This continent no longer confronts the spectre of commune but today were in the west I have to say there are dire threats to our security and our way of. Eyes. In a major speech from Poland, ahead of the G20 summit, President Trump delivered a dark message to the people of Europe, warning that stern civilization, is at risk because of two things terrorist. And big government. You see what's putting out there. They are threats, we will confront them, we will win, but they are threats

its trumps second trip to Europe since taking office, and he was full to reassure our american allies there that the? U S come to their military defence under the rules of neo, something was unwilling to do during his first visit to Europe back in May to those Criticising tough stance. I would point out that the United States has demonstrated not merely with words but with its actions that we stand firmly behind article five, the mutual defence. Commitment and the president took a harder than usual line against Russia after repeatedly down. In its attempts to interfere in the twenty sixteen presidential election. We urge Russia to cease its destabilizing activities in Ukraine and elsewhere port for hustle regimes, including Syria and IRAN, and do instead joy

The community of responsible nations in our fight against common enemies and defence of civilization itself, today at the G20 summit in Germany- Trump meets with Russia's President Vladimir Putin in their first face to face and counter the President's national security advice General economic master said there is no specific agenda for the meeting quote. It's really going to be what ever the president wants to talk about. Like Master said, the Duke is produced by feel about Linsey, Garrison, Rachel question and Andy Mills, LISA Toe Is our executive producer? Samantha Hennig is our editorial two or three music is by in Brandenburg and Ben lands of wonder spent No thanks to Martha Daniel Peter sale.

And Pedro resolve. That's it for the day. I'm Michael Barbaro see money. How does your home impact your help can virtual reality help million suffering from loneliness. I'm science, journalist Korea's Powell and I'm culture, credit Kristen minds. Are we teamed up with invest, go cute? You t brand at the New York Times to create innovation uncovered the world is changing in real time, often in ways we can predict on innovation uncovered. We share stories about the groundbreaking people and technologies that reshaping culture right now, listen now, wherever you get your podcast in basque or distributors ink,