From the new york times, I'm sorry poverty scene and this today A devastating fire in johannesburg last week is raising troubling questions about chaos and dysfunction in africa's richest sitting today, mike colleagues linsey should tell on how the city that was once a symbol of the hope of post apartheid. South africa is now an emblem of just how bad the breakdown become it's friday, temporary. So Lindsay tell me about the fire you

reporting on in johannesburg, which, as it turns out, is the deadliest residential fire in south african history. For last thursday, at about one o clock in the morning, Smoke began to rise from this, don't on building and by the time I woke up massive blaze the johannesburg c b d this morning. It is a very quickly developing story than it was Over the new firefighters rushed to the five story. Building now they are still searching through the building for more victims, and to do so, depriving hour by hour. When I first hand on the tv it was about twenty people that it was possible there were sixty people and then by the end of the day, was seven even people who had rushed on the side and the bodies were laid out in the street, can literally see that the bodies have been covered with metal shooting with blankets what people.

would run out of the building was touching me in shock on the sidewalk, and it was just a scene of such devastation. This is the building itself. You can see that it's it's burn from the back its word from the front, and up here you can see some of the residents who are desperately trying to get out had left a mattress there. and what would jumping from the top floors, even though the fire had been brought under control by the moon. Over time the sun came up the missile smoke come from the building and the risk. I was in crowds of people end, but we realized is that these one onlookers these will people beloved inside this building. So up to about six hundred people, Possibly even more standing, do the entire lives, just and ruin and enables, quite frankly and a someone who's

from johannesburg. How did you understand what had happened? What did it look like to you? It felt horribly inevitable, so we have had see of disasters in johannesburg and we ve kind just quickly moved on from them. For example, a few weeks ago, a street quite literally exploded in downtown johannesburg cause flew up into the air and, thank goodness that there were very few fatalities, and you

would think that seeing a giant crack on a main road would shock people, but it didn't by day to people had returned to their homes. They carried on a cordon off the road, and that tells you something about what johannesburg is as a city in the last few years is seen, johannesburg slowly, decaying, becoming worse and worse every day and for those of us, particularly south africans, probably wondering is, if the economic capital of the most prosperous part of the country, which is one of the most advanced economies in africa. If you can't keep destitute running, what is the rest of this country look like and what is the hope for the rest of the country, quite frankly, Aki so late talk about that. How did your highness burg git here walk me through it? Bring me back to those hopeful. Early days to johannesburg is relatively young city. It was with gold discovered here in eighteen, eighty, six, that everybody

washed here and everybody from eastern europe all the way to china came to find their lives here and to make their fortunes here. It was an incredible diversity, but ironically, it's also way about it began. That is the system of segregation with black and white, and all races were kept separately, and this is where Nelson mandela, the iconic freedom fighter, began this fight against departed, and this is with the sight of so much violence and political struggle and pain. It is my great pleasure to announce the president.

the republic of south africa, MR nelson coyly shasta mandela, then came ninety. Ninety four out of the experience of one like that's, not all modern human disaster that lasted two law must be born of a third of which all your mommy to wind up about it ends as of africa becomes a democracy, and johannesburg sits at the same time that the crown jewels of what's of africa could be neighborhoods are integrating. Schools are integrating and for better or for worse shopping. Malls are popping up all over. During the early nineties, late two thousands and they've got cloth ceiling.

And cinema is a big mac has made it to south africa and there's a mcdonald's hamburger giant is planning to open another restaurant this month and fifteen more next year and in I told johannesburg at this time even though white businesses and white families fled the inner city feared and crime they wouldn't placed with migrants who came from all over the continent from his fires. Nigeria, ethiopia, mozambique, zimbabwe, but all come, bringing their hopes to johannesburg, as though it becomes this multicultural, diverse economic powerhouse that just drawers people from everywhere I'm not interested in the decision was taken after only one round of deleting was may be far announces that two thousand and ten C4 world cup

we'll be organised. The first african world cup will be held in south africa, united state and, at the end, no sense of optimism because the stadiums are going up and the hotels are going down to south africa. I never thought they could do it, but I did that. Did it I beat up on it and there's this beautiful moment of what security south africa could be. We feel safe on the trains and coming year as a good vibe at the moment. Hopefully I can carry on after that, but beyond the world cup things began to fall apart and that's where the disappointment begins to sit in so walk me through that. What

ITU. So at this point the party of nelson mandela, the african national congress, is still in power but were beginning to see a different side of that party. This party that had these grand visions for south africa becomes mired in corruption scandals from top to bottom from the presidency, all the way down to your local street cars, but what that means is that the money I should have been spent on building schools on paying for university tuition. Unfolding hospital has disappeared, unemployment is rising, there's an economic crisis is growing and it turns into the sense of desperation that also drives vial The crime in the city and perhaps the most material. Is that begins a feeling. It is that we literally find ourselves in the dock.

I about twenty twelve twenty thirteen droning blackouts become worse and worse as the africans learn to live with the fact that the countries unable to supply elect to do that. It is one of the many things was unable to supply and by twenty nineteen, particularly here in johannesburg. There was a backlash against the african national congress when the vote is cited, that they would not keep the unseen power and voted them out. and what happened when they were voted out like what does that mean for johannesburg? While what that meant was political chaos, so small, a party suddenly became king makers, parties that many left wing and voters had never even heard of those at the bottom of the ballot, and suddenly they became the swing vote and these parties within able to form a coalition government that those coalition government

so rickety that johannesburg has had six may, as in the last two years alone, wow a mere free season. Precisely I bet you view asked any job, Ugo go. Who the mayor is they're, not quite sure themselves, and so at this point, what that means is who do you call when you're in trouble? Who do you call when services aren't working couple of weeks ago? The copper cables on my street were stolen. Copper cables have become a great underground business and the people drop out the copper wiring, and its soul of scrap metal, and that means that, in your speech, you will not have electricity. In my case, for up to a week, we, the copper cable in your street, was stolen lake from city power lines from city power lines. So what happens is because

these rolling blackouts. There is no electricity running through the copper cable, then that is the perfect time to drop them out of the ground, to ship them out of power stations and to sell them scrap metal, and it's not just the copper fifth. It is the trash collection, then the heaps of trash that are piling up around the city. There are these huge crater sized potholes and terrifying. This issue with high crime, the street lights, don't work in so many neighbourhoods and that's what led me to start reporting on the decay of johannesburg in just exactly what was happening. And back in may, my colleagues, while silver, the photographer and I actually end up at eighty albert street, which is the building that is now burnt and become the centre of such an awful tragedy and what I found was hijacked building. Ok, what exactly is hijack building, like, I think, of a plane?

car, when you use the word hijack and that's nearly exactly what it is. So what happens is that you have a building that is seen as vulnerable a building where the landlord is missing, where it's clear that there no there's nobody taking care of this building, and so what you'll find is that groups of criminal groups or gangs sometimes or walk into a building and start taking over rooms and they'll take over a room. That said, we'll have here now and racial violence. The people who do love there are people who want to move in. They start click to rent, so the landlord is completely kicked out and people criminals will collect rent for these buildings, in which days and no running water, no electricity, no fire escapes no trash collection, and the worst part is that there are dozens of them around the city. So it's almost as if these people, the hijackers, are kind of taking the building has to drive like they have seized it and

extracting rent from people. Precisely. You can quite literally steal a building and have its function residential building without any oversight from the city and without any response from the city. While that is why That is wild and it is what happens. Is that effect of the building that has been hijacked is that it affects the entire block, and so the people were living inside because it'll mix of people right. But the easiest is for criminals to move into these buildings, and so people walking past these buildings will often be mugged. They will be shot, but there are also people who can't afford to live anywhere else and so they're living in these conditions as well. So it's a mix of the exploitation of johannesburg

working poor. Those people who came to Jo'Burg to try and build a life and find that they cant even afford accommodation and how many of these buildings are there in johannesburg, the number itself varies. The highest estimate is that it could be as many as six hundred, but that includes empty lots and houses, because, just as you can see the building, you can also quite literally steal someone's house. So what was this building like inside when you went in may- So I will be completely honest. I didn't go quite inside, oh no, I saw the people living across the road warned us that we would absolutely be robbed if we went near the spot, and so we watched people going in and out- and we saw this heap of trash right at the entrance. We saw another heap of trash, india, side of the building sagging on the ease when windows were broken. It was pitched doctors in the middle of the day, but it was pitch dark inside the building, because there was no light and there were dressed scudding around and of course,

colleague jaws over, who is a well known. War photographer indeed went back the next day because he was determined to take a look inside and he got only as far as the lobby. If my colleagues who are silver only one as far as a lobby dress over, is one of the most fearless people. I know we were together and Afghanistan, it must have been pretty bad. It was a case of a he didn't know who was behind which store and that's where the three would be a social walks around the lobby and he sees exposed wire. He sees do hanging off the hinges- and he just remarked over and over just how dark and unsafe the building itself was, but in the aftermath of the fund we ve gotten close the sins of what happened behind those clothes tools which, while wasn't able to go, took into the survivors, people who loved inside this building and how they fear for their lives and how

Even they saw that this was an inevitability. We'll be right back. I'm Kevin and I'm casey newton, we're technology reporters and the hosts of hard fork, a show from the new york times artwork. programming term for when you're building, something because really screwed up, so you take, everything break it and start over and that's a little bit what it feels like right now in the tech industry like he's, come many. Is that you- and I have been reading about for the past decade, there all kind of struggling to stay relevant yeah, I mean a lot of the energy and money in silicon valley is shifting to totally new ideas, crypto the matter verse ay. I isn't a real turning point and

this is happening so fast. Some, it's so strange. I just feel again texting you constantly like what is this story? Explain this to me, and so were to talk about these stories. We're gonna bring in other journalists, news makers, whoever else involved in building this future too, plain to us, what's changing and why matters hard fork from the new york times. Listen, we're You got your pockets, so lindsey you finally find out what it's like to live in this building, because you ve talked to some of the people who live there. What it say so. The morning after the fire I go to a community into nearby that is housing, many others others and in one of the holes. Women have been sleeping on donated mattresses with blankets make a person is, on one of those old mattresses, a fine a young woman and her mother, her mother's name is poor,

She's in her early for food is like me, and my just ass, an next to her is her daughter and even the building we use in the attempt. is another hijacked money they had just move. from one hijacked building wait had become to unsafe for them because of the criminality in that building into this building here And how long will you living in the building tat? They had been laid for a couple months, but they say that life was held age, The sometime during the night, you'd have to wake up and lie in our stomach, still conserves right in the pacific. This is bad. Sometimes at nights with yokels. Really you guys are, as that's the worst odds they pay more a thousand land for this little corner,

which is about fifty dollars just over and they get this money from Paul who cleans the streets and from her daughters tuition wish that she gets from the state As a college student, they had no running water, so would use water from the fire hydrant or collect water from an open drain away. If he'd had the had forced to concentrate very, had no toilets, and so they would walk up to the shopping mall two to three blocks up the road during the day and at night when it became too unsafe. It? Would you leave themselves in buckets and keep it in the room I had to be at home by faces, but it's not that it's, the daughter could not get into the building after dark.

because she was afraid of what is happening outside people love you inside the building, but because of inside the building, she would rush home and lock us all from the room before sunset. because they had granted access it in, I was using What is the only way to keep the rule is to make us, more fire in the room and they knew this was hi hazard and it was an awful choice that they had to make every day. So they knew that this building was going to be life threatening hm and how did they described? The native the fire saw on the night of the fire. The daughter had been studying late

and it was to unsafe, to go home. So she stayed with a friend and wishes to mom at home and among pulses found about after one a m should gotten up and she went to relieve herself invest. Why? Then? I have a second attempt- and she says quite frankly, there's something fault off so since a foreboding as she began to pray, then after When I was about to go back on my bed, I have something I said: was that gun outside what she remembers. The after is suddenly she heard screaming saying this vote has been in. This has been an we're banging on the doors and say there's a fire there's a fire in the building and what it seemed is that in one of the shacks on the ground floor or in the lot outside this seems to have been a

yeah and, of course we don't know exactly what the causes just yet, but we do know that that fire spread rapidly because of the materials within this abandoned, stripped building game. I just took my mine walk out. I got to do a bit like eight hours, paying you my heart, maple just have just shown media. We pulses, she got out of the room, but she locked the door because is hoping that she is able to come back from point and she grabs what she can see. She didn't have time to go, I go to school books and she runs outside and as she's running, she takes the risk of running down the stairs. We know a lot of people were too afraid as the fire leaped up and they jumped out of the third floor paul is one of the lucky ones that made it down the stairs. But she says, the flaws there was locked door, sample does thing and they came and she heard banging.

and baggage disease. It is sound, but she will never of a man's screaming on the other side of a locked door, and she had to make their choice should go and try and free him. She doesnt have a key. Never, I never knew. I just thought of myself. I had to save myself from another day by day what was lying in my mind that want to kill this might save us of its choice of. Does she save yourself for her daughter who she loves for what does she run and try and save this and when she doesn't know because the truth is, she doesn't really know her neighbours and so many of the people when, when I spoke to the marseilles it we didn't really know who we were living next door to, because people were in and out then no one when it was willing for one nice. Did you know why you fire and what is done up in may produce dantes was just laying out

make the choice and she runs in the opposite direction from the man that we screaming and when she finally makes it out into the streets, she looks back and the building is a flame. So I was sending day some of the people themselves from the second floor had flown before dying in front of us and people are jumping and some of them are falling to their deaths and action things she shakes her head and tears, adjust filling her eyes, but her daughter she's hardening herself. At this point she says that, quite frankly, He just wants to move on from eighty albert street. I feel like all these people believed that what has been happening to they were looking for me out you looking at them leave free as laid down in this house as it has held.

She doesn't want to have that memory on. You said that people clearly knew that a fire like this was possible that these hijacked buildings, you know, are a phenomenon and that there are over six hundred of them. You called this inevitable in some ways, so who's at fault. Here you know- and I got to the theme I asked- may have that same question. I said people have been calling you about this folding for years to my records, at least since may so who is at fault here, and he said, while his administration is new, everyone is at fault, and that is a casual because that

is that no one person will be held accountable here, because what the spalding represents is a series of failures within the city and see it as a failure is within the country. Quite frankly, so my colleague John illegal, founded trove of documents that showed emails between city and by the officials sending emails to people in the health department, their colleagues in public safety, their colleagues in the johannesburg property company Was this state owned entity that ran this company and they said we have had inspections at least from two to seventeen? They listed all the problems that the building and they said that

is a bad building. It is turning into an emergency situation and we should do something about it. What we did not find is what exactly people did about it faded into love across the road. Those the people that I interviewed back in may already said that they had also call the police. They called the police when they heard screams, they call the police when they thought there was a murder when they saw the woman being thrown off the third or fourth floor, and the police would come there would be read, but then for the return to normal, and it would just go right back to the way things were, and so there are all these failures at every step and wind city officials were doing the sort of tour around the disaster, giving press conferences, giving precise briefings blaming each other. I asked one of the city,

fischler. When was the last time you were inside this building, that is the last time there was an inspection and he said to me it was twenty nineteen, because we couldn't risk going into a hostile environment, hostile environment, where people lived so stepping back for a minute here, lindsey either going back to something we talked about at the beginning of our conversation, johannesburg as the symbol of hope and opt in that really all of us had about south africa back and ninety ninety four and now here we have this, and I mean you don't want to read too much into it. We just had our own disastrous fire in the state of hawaii, but it does seem safe too.

hey that this fire has shown johannesburg to be a symbol of something else. What would you say it is, I think, John is bug at this point is a symbol of the disappointment of whatever africa could have been. China's book has this precincts, in which the city tried to bold and create and make it safe and livable, but even as I was driving here, I would say, develop developed and next door was hijacked building. Every time there is one step forward, fear to two steps back and to be sure they are great gleamings stretches of the city. That's show the old promise

more and more for so many people. The city just doesn't hold the promise that it used to lindsey as someone from johannesburg whose life has spanned this period, how do you see it? Can? I grew up between a part of soweto and johannesburg suburbs. I was burst into school back and forth every day I have travelled from one in johannesburg and what I've loved about the city is its innovation. Its diversity its sense of energy, and what I am finding is that the spirit of the city is slowly waning and struggling. The city is struggling to rise above this political disaster. It struggling to rise above decades of neglect and its struggling to rise

of what is becoming a national problem is that africa, where it seems as if there is no clear path forward, and it seems as if the people who have been entrusted in steering, city and stating the country into this future that buddy dreamed about ninety ninety four will to do it. And so for the people that I have been talking to what they seeing this is is a lead city, and that question is important because we are months from a pivotal election next year, is not only the city and university of talks in south africa is also an election year ways: some pundits saying that they believe that the agency will go to its lowest margin, yet it will still win, what we are seeing, then is it likely that it will be at its weakest and so

what be questioning been is whose steps into that gap, and what I think is at the lesson here is, rather than relying on a political party to step into that gap. What I have seen in the days after the fire is south africans and immigrant communities coming together to try and help each other to feed each other to find homes for each other to help each other very they did, and so what I hope is so africans will find their humanity in what has truly been an absolute, how'd you do- and I hope that, unlike the previous times that johannesburg doesn't just move on from this one

when do you think you are starving, we'll be right back here's. What else you should know today on Thursday Let me tell you something: new yorkers. Never in my life have I had a problem that I did not see an end to. I don't see an end in new york mayor, Eric Adams escalated his rhetoric over the influx of migrants to the city, claiming in stark terms that the crisis was existential. This issue will destroy new york city, Items a Democrat in his second year in office has clashed with leading members of his party, as new york city has struggled to provide housing and services to the mai

is who now number one hundred and ten thousand four months. He is criticized president Biden and new york's governor cathy hopeful for failing to help the city, but his comments on thursday were the most ominous. Yet, and drew praise from republicans and condemnation from some Democrats Peter Navarro, a traded. Visor too, former president Donald trump was convicted. On thursday, criminal contempt of congress over his defiance of a subpoena from house committee investigating the january six attack on the carpet the verdict in federal district court in manhattan, Mr Navarro, the second top adviser of trumps to be found guilty of contempt for defined the committee's inquiry. Stephen Bannon, a former strategies for Mr Tromp, was convicted of the same offence last summer. Today,

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