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on Wednesday night republicans held their first debate of the twenty twenty four presidential race with out the campaigns most dominant candidate on the stage today, maggie haber met on which candidates broke through which faded into the background and how the debate might employs. rest of the race it's thursday august. Twenty four maggie! Thank you for being here. Thank you for being on time,

Don't get thanked for that very often, so I am very happy to have it be said. We started midnight at its only twelve twenty that is so try to sew on time, and our elder definitely is so maggie. The backdrop to this debate has been all this drama around. Whether donald trump would participate. He did not participate. Can you briefly base on the reporting? You have done explain why he chose not show up so basically, Michael from his perspective. In his aids perspective, why would he debate that was Their question trump has literally said that himself repeatedly and they have made that point for many many weeks now going back to the spring, or they mean what. Why not debate, because it was not in his interests as the front runner by a wide margin in the republican primary to be onstage with people who are poles. so much lower in some cases really in in low single digits in their minds. It could only hurt him a could, take the shine off of

it could allow someone else to shine to have a moment, his expense, and on top of that, he Has this long running feud with the network that hosted the debate. Fox news who he complained bitterly has treated him poorly, despite the fact that he got a number of solicitations from the networks hosts on air, encouraging him to show up privately to network executives when and met with him at dinner, with him at his club in bed minster the republican national committee. Chairwoman, Ronnie mcdaniel also made a pilgrimage there, none of it worked, and so, despite all of these solicitations, he said no, and instead he decided to do a counter programming competing event with a former fox news host Tucker karlsson right just stick the knife and it seems trumps not only Not gonna. Do the fox news, primetime debate, he's gonna, do an interview with a fired former fox star, Tucker karlsson.

Exactly and end right off the bat in an interview with Tucker karlsson trump said. Why would I go to a place where I'm just gonna get harassed all night long, and it feels like trumps absence. created a real dilemma for everyone who ultimately did decide to participate in the debate, and the dilemma was: should they focus their attention on trump, an attack him even though, is out there given just how far ahead he is in the pools, or should they focused their fire on each of those in the room and therefore perhaps improve their own standing in the pool since, with the exception of rhonda santas governor afforded they're all, So far back. That was the question, and the answer came really fast. Once the debate started the race for the white house tapes flight, welcome to the first debate of the two thousand and twenty four presidential campaign, no one neither the candidates nor the moderators wanted to talk about trump

They are here a lay their vision for america, and so, instead, the moderators tried right out of the gates during the conversation towards issues more than sixty five percent of americans say the countries headed in the wrong direction and hear anyhow, they all ended using it as a moment to give an opening statement, although moderator should ask them not to do that, and we heard from a candidates on the state servers. Let me just addressed that is on everybody's mind at home tonight, who the fuck is this skidded guy with funny last name and what the heck is. Even in the middle of this debate stage, we heard from entrepreneur and, first time candidate, the vague promise warming our country is in decline. And this decline is not inevitable. It's a choice. Now I was elected as a conservative republican in a blue state press christie, the former governor of new jersey, but I dont care about Paul's. What I about. The fact is that no one is telling the american people the truth. Nicky Hayley, who is the governor of south carolina us, are republicans. Did this to us too?

and it doesn't take long for them to all start going after each other's you. on the same issue- got TIM Scott. You ve got my pants. They all voted to raise the debt. Vice president, my pants, when after a vacuum, swami now is The time for on the job training we don't need to bring in a working. We don't need the swami attach back at my pants you mind, I don't respond, and I for one second gazebo me back: let's neither has gotten their memorized pre prepared slogans out of the way we can actually have a real disguise and now the reality, the wonder years, not really mike. Actually we're just going to have some fun tonight and then Chris Christie went after that ground swimming pools. I've had enough already tonight, of a guy who sounds like

at gb to eat the last person in one of these debates: bread who stood in the middle of the stage and said what's a skinny guy, then there s name. Doing up here was Barack Obama and I'm afraid we're deal with the same type. mature, saying that he was invoking a pretty similar line to something that Allow me once said everything right. It's way, maggie exact there was going on here. We had assumed that, in the absence of trump that the republicans on this stage were quite likely to go after the number two in the polls which is governed, santos afforded, but instead a number of them are going after the vat rama swami. This, as you said, political newcomer he's kind of unknown to allow the national obvious. Why is that happening? So there are a few reasons. Michael one is because there

calling beneath ham and he is gaining on Dissent- is in a number of these policy and because he is rising in the polls, while dissent, as has been losing steam, he's going to be a natural target, and he also represents something very specific and the republican field. He's a far right. Upstart a younger generation he's the most closely aligned with trump and candidly. He was something of a trump stand in on Wednesday, so you could attack roma swami and in that sense your kind of attacking tromp, basically yeah, I mean essentially rama swami- is offering the most full throated defence of donald trump on that stage, even more than the pursue serve within I'll drop. My pants and going after trump in absentia worked better when it took on a physical form, and that was wrong, swami right and in the neck.

a series of exchanges in this debate it felt like rama swami, was both dominant as a figure in that room and extremely far to the right, as you suggested, he was not trade, and so when I started talking about issues like climate, it was clear that run the swami is just much much much further right then some of other candidates, so, for example, on that issue, dissenters was asked about it and he didn't really answer the question. As somebody that's handle disasters in florida, you gotta be activated it's gotta, be there you've gotta be present. You've got to be helping. People can we say we're doing this. Answer to the question was that a yes? He gave this sort of wish why she answer, whereas grammar swami was quite clear as the climate.

Why was the climate? I remember thinking by this point maggie that roma swamis answers are lucid and they are for arm. Dissent is a little more muddled and that this debate is not really playing out. The way we thought it might in terms of who was rising to the service standing out an emerging as the debates can protagonist. Yet very the swami had a dominant ninety pages dead. End santa's had much less of a memorable one. He was less interested in standing out. He seemed as if he was basically just trying to arrive in the background. The swami was trying to create memorable moments right soon enough for the end of the first half of the debate, and everyone has

successfully steered clear of trump moderators are asking pigs more questions about important issues, everyone's behaving as if this were a conventional republican, primary, a pre trump republican farmers, but it's not he's a candidate wasn't on stage he's in the race, and this primary will be about. Trump, and yet no one's talking about trump. He is conspicuously absent from it right. It was almost like the moderators and the candidates were acting as if the trump administration and the crazy events at the end never happened and that this campaign really is actually focused on issues like climate change, as opposed to reflecting on one man, and it's really slightly and hitherto the reality of what this campaign has been about some more and it did feel like okay. So when is

It happened in two thousand and twenty and on january six, twenty twenty one. When is this going to come up, but it becomes clear that in the second half of the debate, this is going to come up. Right now. You are looking live at folding county jail where forward that ain't dog from will be processed tomorrow? So next the candidates will have an opera today to talk about the timing. Trials of donaldson, we'll be right back. Find everything your imagination craves on audible, stay up late with a tense thriller list, and on a swoon romance or get some new inspiration and motivation from the pros and so much more. It's all there in just one app audio books, popular party ass, an exciting new originals, there's thousands of included titles with more added every week. So you can always find something new you'll find all the best

audio entertainment at audible, the home of storytelling sign up for a free thirty day, trial at audible, dot com, slash the daily I'm carol Rosenberg from the new york times right sitting alone in the press room at the: u S, navy basic one time a bay. I probably spent around two thousand nights at this navy base I've been coming here since hormone after the nine eleven attacks. I watched the first prisoner arriving in those organs jumpsuits from far away Afghanistan. Some of these prisoners- they still Don'T- have a trial date. It's hard to get here, it's hard to get news from the prison. Often you know I'm the only reporting here if you bill day, military court in prison. Out of

should the american people. It should not be out of reach of american journalism. We have a duty to keep coming back and explain. What's going on here, the new york times takes you to difficult and controversial places. It keeps you informed about unpopular and hard to report developments and that takes resource. You can power that journalism by subscribing to the new york times, but we have a lot to do in in this. Second, on of this, ll be primary debate policy discussions, the americans, Here you all on china, ukraine, immigration, education, but we are going to take a brief moment and talk about the elephant, not in the room,

our president has been indicted in port au prince states on ninety one talents. He will be processed so eventually the debate does work in fact, turn to donald trump and to the events of twenty twenty and even to january sixth, vs. Thanks to the moderators Would you still support him as your parties choice? Please raise your hand if you would raise the fact that trump has been indicted several times and could be convicted criminally before the general election, and they ask everyone to raise their hands and say if they will still be behind him, if he's convicted right and it felt like the opposite of everyone, raising their hands at the same time or keeping them down. It was this kind of strange we're locked in machine

It was like watching the wave at a ballpark answer. Some hands are drunk and then some hands went up. Some stay down. Dissent is in a clip. Trumps team posted pretty quickly on twitter, waited and looked at one half of the stage. One is that everyone aware the way we re. Where was everyone else and then races? this kind of lakes, integrated urban roger. I know I do in this book and Christie didn't like a half hen raise have wave. It was hard to know what it what it was in, analysing the moderators really understood what it was either russia they asked him about. It comes This you didn't come. What would the cheers finally uses that moment to get his whacking tromp witches. When everyone had expected, he would do in it in it. It mostly landed here. So here's a bottom line someone's guide

stop normalizing this conduct now why this is an attack we expected because Christie from the moment he announced Canada's he said, I'm going to be the Republican whose willing to say the tough, difficult things about donald trump and the charges against him and what happened on january that's right, and he had not done that throughout the debate up until that point, and he finally took that moment to do it Whether or not whether or not you believe that the current charges are right or wrong. The conduct is beneath the office of president of the united states. But it didn't land that hard. He was booed, pretty loudly summoned the audience for errors, supporting I'd like to get in and respond well to speak the truth. Ok,

and then run the swami had his moments and used it to praise from an attack christie. President tromp, I believe, was as president of the twenty first century, honest to god, you claim that donald trump is motivated by vengeance in grievance would be a lot more credible if your entire campaign we're not based vengeance and grievance against discovered you make me laugh because as you sit here answer you sit here and answer in once again, ramaswamy shows himself to be a pretty skilled performer and taking on Chris Christie on a debate stage. Christie is known as a slave or of candidates, and yet in exchanges like this roma swami, it does seem, is getting a limit of the best of them. That's right and,

got so raucous between them that the audience kept going and the moderators had to step into the more jobs we still running, and this is the last time they can talk about issues you wanna talk about so. Let's just got an aggressive. They kept going at heads and christy billy attack or on the swami for his lack of experience, you too, you ve, never done it like you, ve, never done anything to try to advance the interests of this government, except to put yourself forward as a candidate tonight at here is a thing right got quite he did and then, of course, pens who is at the centre of all of that drama around January six and the end of the term presidency finally gets his say about what happened

by the on genuine sex right in supplants ended up talking about what happened that day january six, twenty twenty one amid this pressure campaign for donald trump and how he got to the point of saying? No, for the american people deserve to know that the president asked me in his request that I read jerked or return votes unilaterally, power that no vice president american history had ever exercised are taken. He asked me to put him over the constitution and I chose the cost to show- and I always will I had no right to turn the election. It seems worth noting that mike hence might be pulling in the single digits, as he enters its debate, He gets a tremendous amount of time and space in this debate and is

assertive in a way that I don't think a lot of us who think of him and his vice presidency, which has often been defined by a kind of compliance and solicitous, expected him to be what he was on. This debate states hence really came out swinging in this debate. He had something to say any said it, and we got to see that several times and so the others on stage were asked about pence, his actions to rebuffed from and how he went ahead and certified. The twenty twenty election and he got praise for many the state, including the centres including two santas, and including christie and Nicky Hayley. They all said the prince did his job that day right, everyone said it except the background, the swami, oh my god, you say this. Make a commitment that on day one you would pardon donald trump, I'm the only candidate on the stage

The current our nation forward, instead ramaswamy swami challenges, pants to agree to pardon donald trump, if he's elected on day, one and of course, pence refuse, took him into that correct. Now we are moving on to other issues. Do you has committed nearly seventy seven billion dollars in aid to the ukraine war. Then the moderate your turn to foreign policy. They turn to the warring ukraine. U s support for it, and this dynamic we have been talking about where the vet roma, swami is very firm and very clear and pens is very assertive and santa it's kind of feeding is very much on display again. Is there anyone on stage who would not support the increase of more funding to ukraine? Yeah, just santa gets asked to articulate his position on support for ukraine.

in you. Usa, you would not to damage the scientists. I will have europe, Japan pull their weight now, they're, not doing it right with the. U s keep sending billions of dollars to ukraine, yes and he doesn't quite say whether he would or wouldn't think our support should be contingent on them doing it and I would have, and then he tries to change the subject times, I'm not going to send troops to ukraine, but I m going to send them. Do our southern border when these drug pushers, our brain, then run the swamp by contrast, gave a very clear answer: iran is wrong. You would not support an increase in funding to ukraine. I would not- and I think that this is disastrous. No more! U s! Funding to ukraine, right, you already for the united states of america, and I think- and this leaves everyone to pile on rum swami, anybody that think so we can solve the problems here in the united states. Aids and be the leader of the free world has a pretty

all view of the greatest nation on earth. We hence gives his position and attacks from swami again Hayley. Does this So the way I would have been less than you have no more politics beards and if you know what the pattern where roma swami is just a clear target and again taking positions that align pretty cleanly with Donald trumps continues. So maggie, I'm really curious what you make up the fact that the scientists is operating in the way that he did in this debate not being is unambiguous as roma swami, but perhaps more importantly, shying from the kinds of exchanges and conflict that would have gotten a more attention because, of course, in these debates it to get attacked. You get more time to respond. You get more minutes of the debate

that, just to dissenters trying to stay above the fray was strategic, or is this just a reflection of his disposition and manner as a candidate or what you could see him at some points, trying to be an alpha which is part of his home, political persona and using lines from has some speech, but a bunch of them just landed with a thud. That said, his goal was clearly not to have the kind of viral moment. That would be bad and would be with people remember him for he. So he's a faded into the background, particularly later on. As the debate went on but I think that he preferred that to having a really bad moment. It was an unremarkable performance, but that probably was better than the alternative around this point. Tonight's debate comes to an end. Thank you, today, we see on the campaign trail from debates to play, and I want to talk about whose care

it see in your mind might have changed. The most for this to be because of the way it unfolded and ultimately, where this debate leaves this primary and which donald trump looms so large, there were two people who had stand out amateurs and one was rama. Swami his star definitely rose. He left the debate in a better position than he into it and which is generally what candidates want right in which might lead to a rise in fund raising and attention, perhaps even pulling. Who knows how long that last, but this was that kind of moment, it's only a help to him, as we hadn t the months before I left the other person who had a stand at night. My pants, he was surprising he was a guy who has been struggling in the polls and who is not known as a strong presence in the trumpet ministry, but he showed that he was a good debater and something of an adult in the room. Nicky Hayley had a decent night

but she was delivering a general election message in a primary. I dont know which then helps her meaning? Her positions were ultimately just too far to the left of the republican primary electorate, yes and delivering a message that this republican primary electorate isn't that interested in Chris Christie will continue on because he has an audience for what he sang, but most of the rest of the candidates are going to struggle in the coming months. But what does it mean that the two people who had a really good night had the night they had because it would seem like it might and just complicating the state of this republican field in which there is such a vast gap between trumpet everybody else, and I want to talk through that. This debate did very little to clarify anything Michael, especially because the two people had stand out. Performances represent in one case my pants is the historic version of conservatism and effect from swami this tree.

represent trumpism and the future of the party right, and so what does it mean? If, let's say both of them benefit from this moment means the party is still figuring out what it might be in a post trump world, but it's not a post trump, where there is no post trump world, yet As long as there are multiple people battling it out. Underneath Donald trump donald trump is going to do well, and this is not a debate that did much to eliminate a ton of people now they all if they qualify, get to do it again timber, but this is not going to do much to change the trajectory of a race or donald trump is so far ahead. So I came back to where we began. Did this debate and the way it played out any in fighting among the people on that station? I did it validate trumps decision

not sure, but the debate I gotta, they think invalidated it. Here. I got a message from christless sabena, wanna, trumps, top advisers toward the end of the debate saying that his decision to skip it was validated within the first thirty minutes the day her people might disagree, but it's hard to argue that he made What kind of tactical error by not showing at least as best as we can tell right now, because if he'd been there, there wouldn't be this muddling of things. There would just be trump the pinata and so ultimately as perverse as many people might think, it is to not participate in the democratic process of debating for the country at the party.

each of these being trump feels like it was there. I call right they're trying to way an election you're not trying to when a debate or lagging. Thank you very much. Thank him. I have a good rest of your warning and you

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