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better late than never some contact before we dive in here? The buddha, as many of you know, is a congenital list maker. His first and foundational list was called the four noble truths. This is a list that begins with life, is suffering with his little bit of a mistranslation. It basically means that life is gonna, be unsatisfying. If you're constantly clinging to that will not last given me, negotiable fact of relentless impermanence in the universe in which we find ourselves. The second noble truth is that the cause of our suffering is the aforementioned clinging or thirst. The third is that there is hope out of this mess, and the fourth is a sort of manual for waking up and suffering less. That fourth, noble truth is the eightfold path, so it's kind of a list within a list. The eightfold path and to help us unpack at all is a fascinating person named brother, father young.

He was born in vietnam, came to the united states with his family as a child refugee, and was raised in los angeles helio trained in orkut sure at usc before becoming a monk under his teacher. Who is it cowering figure in modern buddhism named tick, not hon. Bob young has an interesting, as you will hear critique of our capitalist consumerist culture. He's not saying that we should opt out just that. We can use the eightfold path to create a different relationship to the juggernaut so where to dive into all of that in this chap. But we begin here with his personal story, which involves some family strife and a lot of scepticism. Here we go with brother fuck, young. Other five young. Thank you very much for coming on. Thank you, I'm happy to be here. Thank you day. I was

it's kind of genially. I hope genially complaining to you before we start a rolling that you were saying too many interesting things before we started the interview, so I'm starting the interview now, because I want to make sure I don't either. Neither one of us forgets all the interesting things you were saying. You were starting to tell me a story seconds ago about how you're skeptical a and when you first went on your first retreat? Can you say more about that yeah. You know my family, we grew up buddhists but the eyes. Sunday, temple buddhists but I never related to any of that. It's a lot of stuff day in the stand was a praying and you know we saw worshipping and devotional, but when I had, trouble with my family. My father and my mom took me to a retreat. The first time with that and I remember seeing these monks and nuns and people behaving nicely and special, the young monks and nuns they seem they happen.

Smiling, and so on that there was a those suspicious and you know the sex. time around two years later. Another retreat came in a lot of monks and nuns there. I actually wanted to follow them. So he called my boss. I was working as an arctic, nay, I need a couple more weeks, so I thought Them on the tour because I wanted to see what these monks and nuns or lie at the very least as I golly already always smiling in mind for very good. I grew up in los angeles. I was educated in the west, our families, if e g coming over so my education, Canada is very suspicious of anything that I think you probably know raised edna educated in the western edge in system. You always are sceptical and suspicious and critical

Zanu ours that Canada, young men in that, I can relate to people who were based suspicious and sceptical of any type of things are palmer sore, looked like it's a happy and peace for all the time to anyway. I just want you. Don t relate with you on that, but in fact, and I began to discover other things been I see no looking out at other people. I began to see the practice as looking out myself, and I said, to see some effect on me like that some, I realize, might thinking and seeing my thinking. I remember that I came back from the retreat and I didn't I just went into our out to room in our family and I started to sitting and meditating, and I remember the first time ever see my thought and how a arise in how it disappeared. So at that time I have some difficulty

with my father and I was saving their one morning and I heard his voice in the the room. I remember seeing my anger, my thought: toys. My father come up. I began to this really be with it in view that sensation through my body this kind of like tightness but like staying with it following my breathing and being in that state. Not moving and allowing and seeing the rising of thought and feelings of anger that produce. And slowly how that actually starts to dissipate a little bit. because you recognize it and that's nothing about skeptical or belief, is just an expert science, and you realize that while I didn't do anything, I didn't say anything, I didn't slammed the door and I was so thankful that was the beginning for me to really

become interested in how my my works and how it determines quality of the way I am, and I started affecting how I am at work and so on. and seeing my mine unseen feeling I started seeing in others as well, so slow, only slowly that a move from being sceptical of others and looking for a system sue believe and I began to see it is more like looking inwards and discover how my mind works. Now My doorway into meditation- I just wanted to share their because they related to you. Your at the doorway, which is you're going through suffering and from that suffering. It opens up a new way of looking at things. Jar relate to everything you just said, then she's in it. I think many of the people listen to the show are like us in that they come in a little sceptical. What's this weird

adaptation thing do I now have to be not where robes and be a buddhist. What's this all about, but actually the way you describe it that we want start. Looking at the way, your mind works, you realize dogmatism has roll really. It's just about seeing the truth of your inner experience and learning how to relate in a different way. Do it improves your life and you can just get better and better it that skill. Right, you know and the way I was raised and educated kind of like going the college going through the degrees getting the job getting the house car wage gaze, success bank account and retirement plan. That's a kind of belief system and I actually became skeptical of that. I remember I was like wow this, the system and this is what I'm caught in as the happiness inside began to reflect on

what our society impose on us and we believe it without being suspicious sceptical that that is really true happiness. So, in a way I still were sceptical, that's called investigative mine in buddhism There we begin to actually investigate everything in our and how we into act as well as our world. What we accept as normal, you constantly examining how, when you touch something, what it feels like when you see something when you hear some thing, what does that invoke? Your feelings come from. It goes very well with science, the the practice and it sir. That's the part Buddhism that I didn't know going up with my family is my family is more like cultural buddhism. It was just except

another young people grow up, and they just do it because it's in there. I'm losing their culture missile. That's the part. I was radiophone. I realise that actually, this man in india, we call buddha now, he just basically discovered the way of being in the world and study, examining question everything for me when I discovered that the buddhist practice, not the buddhist religion, that really inspired me to look. you talk about generating this scepticism, more investigative quality visa v, the traditional messages from our western culture about what a good life would look like house, marriage, car, for one k, etc, etc, I hear that and I think a number of things one is it I still

kind of believe that personally I mean not all of it and not uncritically, but I like having those things and I suspect people as in the show like that, and I also think about the buddha. You know he wasn't out there saying everybody should share their heads and become a monkey was hanging out with kings and wealthy merchants. That said, there was a robust role for lay people or worldly, as he called them p all in the song gower the buddhas immunity. So what's your taken everything I just said you know when I say investigated, doesn't mean that it is bad. We should not assume you know number like one friday night. This sitting there and really feeling. I like. Why am I not going out nl leave your home on Friday night. You know,

you go stay from work to home is like you, don't have a social life, and I remember this- you know going agony, stay home so that is my also my first time actually staying home on a friday night and being okay with it have to spend money, and feeling ever member the next saturday feeling like Well, it wasn't so bad you, I'm not a loser. Yeah oasis, these little moments of like questioning what you assume: somerset, in having a house a car, a job and security in these things is bad. I'm just saying these are conventions, and this is what we live in and we have to end accommodate with someone that, but that chin be disk without question. You know and meditation help me

actually so that friday evening I was restless, and I felt this g, and just because I've been doing meditation, I recognize that energy is pushed this restlessness to go out and stimulate myself and to feel like you're happy. So I begin to investigate that so I began to actually used to stay home on the weekend, which is like while inviting My friends over, I will make him in a fool Well, we would die in over how potluck so we found in turn it is rather than to spending money. So anyway, that was the like one of the first and I started questioning job. The site questioning the whole profession of architecture. and why we go to work and so on and so on. Then there was the journey from me you're not everyone should become monks and nuns, but I think they should have at least some

this is to examine when things happen to them or what society tell. How you look and which should be doing and what people think that that's their happiness. But in fact maybe it's not I I began to see that you know I don't need a new car and my friends kept She me to buy a new car and, as they looked at you when you get a new car, looked at you, you know every time we go out, you're, worried about your car and where you park it when I you guys out nobody's going to pick my toyota and I can park anywhere. So in a way you do is like the push to get it a new brand new car. It's great I mean it- but I see the anxiety it causes him and in fact he got a kid There's someone scratch stay with the key and I can see what it does to him, so there's some, in east to buy new car when the season. Change you gotta get new clothes.

That is why we need new clothes is fine. I was to close and choose by the way, but I had to crush. That is what do I need another pair of shoes Do I really need to know the parachute for me as a young man, I accepted all that I love the early life in hours. You know, if you ask me twenty five years ago, that I would be a monk living in the mountain nature in a quiet place everything you're crazy then, I will be doing what I'm doing now. So, if I'm here, you correctly in terms of how you would take your own experience and channel toward meal guidance for other people. I am your correct me here, but it sounds to me like you're nuts, preaching some strict anti materialist, anti capitalist never buy a new pair of shoes nike

get a car, but just to investigate. Why are you doing in? What's the effect they say exactly, and this is what meditation this is, what the path will lead us to a more correct way of looking at how we interact with the world And this is actually the the premise sue. You know what we accept as a collective. What is happiness. In the last century, I would say very individualistic bay materialistic and they focus on fame power violence. So we accept that we accept war. We accept progress as always producing like get back to normal. Everyone should get back to spending he's kind of a collective acceptance, so we call our society, our culture is actually why we're where we act now, which, with the planet with

psyche, people, lonely people just take care of themselves. You know if each person would take on the path and slowly we can contribute to a kind of different way of looking at how to be in the world. I start over this a holding two things simultaneously. One is this critique of capitalism I buy it. The idea of infinite growth in a finite system is in here, they problematic and leads to a key aggressive stance in so many ways toward the planet. You know which, where, You know I've been on the front lines of your mind. Pouring life of spending time in places like the amazon and seeing how that, being destroyed in the name of you, know, infinite growth and that the consequences What we're doing at the climate is just the sort of incalculable almost to end It can lead to aggression.

Terms of war as use described, the kind of we might go to war over scarce reach. forces it can lead to a kind of inner russian around capitalism being based on inculcating in each one of us a sense of insufficiency so that we keep buying to sort of medicate that sensitive insufficiency that critique really allow me. On the other hand, I like having a nice house like buying my kid toys- and you know I don't go out much these days, but I like having now weapons pat around the house. So how do I act ethically in this context, yeah. This is ways is a dangerous thing, because we are dealing with a notion and ideal how'd being the world must fight. I always tried to start off by looking more.

Personally individually at the person and what makes them suffer. What makes them happy and their journey as an individual is very touch You know I've given talks on it and how to be active, engage in the world, but also be taken care of yourself, because you need to be engaged, the world in a particular way right and equality can be angry at a peace movement, So anyway, I had a lot of comment on that people get really reactive, while very defensive as well and that's why you're not teaching. We always start with teaching people to be mindful. First be mine forward their breath. We have to start with that first slowing p now because people we go into concepts and ideas too early dinner, it becomes opinions and values to quit, your value, my value, your take. My take your view, my view, and

Usually it won't help anything, but I started with my own individual. My personal suffering with my father. You see and how that actually framed everything I understand that your father suffered because his country, his life, was destroyed because of a war because of a concept that caused the war. Communism is gonna, take over vietnam and is gonna domino effect dinner. I think many of us know now, but because of that one view that fear that car has any cost, so many people lose their family. Their life so, in a way the war never end. For my father, we lost everything. You is well off. We lost everything, and so I began to see him.

suffering. He had a high time and you know the rose change. My mom became more the breadwinner. She got it say: jobs started speaking english, faster Oh my father's on my dad became more depress and good. led to anger, restoration. Anyway. I remember all this stuff coming up. I sat and eyes I reflected on my father and my hate and my anger towards him such diminish. Because of understanding, I begin to have more insight. And the more insight. You have your views about your father and yourself. To change- and I started see when that relationships us change. How I relate to people, work, change, say you be happy happier Be news, like you know, bubbly happy, is you see you feel like cash?

to be angry. All the time you know have to carry around you became lighter yet more space and Because of that you begin to look at other people at work as not always competitive and great. You know selfish with their ideas and protective gear. More space, you started helping them with their projects. six, which is unbelievable and architectural firm. You know what he's protective of their ideas they competitive yo and so that a study affecting thing I started to see it starts with my inner happiness. Then the aid for pat help me with the

I don't know you want me to share a little bit about that. That's been my manual that I turned to the eightfold path. I do all you to share, but that may be a helpful place to start would be to explain to folks what the eightfold path is and where it sort of fits into the you know the buddhist teachings. Yes, this is one of the first teaching that the buddha gave and also his last teaching and the aiful path is a part of the fourth noble truth. So these are foundational teaching the noble truth and the awful path- and this is exactly his own- he called it in medicine. When someone sick, you can bring the men eager. Ok, what is your sickness? Ok, this nature. Ok, this is how we can treat this, and you need to do this and do this and take this and you'll be ok. This is the first

apple twos, find out why you why you are sad why you are so on and look at where it comes from an from that you will realise that healing is possible. Once you know what the sickness is, and you know its cause. that already tells you there is a clear, and that is a happiness the. So the buddha was not just talking about suffering people. Mistaken buddhism, jose all about suffering now is actually is quite practical, and this is the path we that my four, this is only one aspect of the practice of my finnish needs to go with concentration, diligence and then in sight. Alright view along with speed.

Thinking and action and then move Musou right livelihood how you are in the world. You see the April path, but the buddha found was, Quite empowering is a: u determine a lot of you world and this if you practice this path, this will help you see more clearly in vietnam, is they never say buddhism in, like the border becomes ism were in vienna. Is the way of the buddha now How means the way fuck is that They don't have the word for buddhism. We we are. practising the way of the buddha now up the word Buddha in the enemy sounds a lot like a bad word in English. Yes, it's spout, p h, a tea, and She, no vietnamese yea. It sounds like

a nice word in English. But the word Tao is important, I realise that I, like all my guy I'll, come by this- that is actually is, to travel alone is now I belief that you devote an I just blindly believe in and then new practices. and you see a result, so it's very evident space as well. My teacher. He loves that use that word, because it's vaguely related to science. Do it and see what it does you Watch your side and see how it rises and how it goes away, see happens when you stress, stop breed and see what it does see a body. You see this evidence. Investigation amazing, so that aid for path is beautiful, because it element they all related. The into act with each other

So when you mind for your mind for Billy, speak you behaviour, so it's not mine for just going home and doing so. else, so this is where our teacher founded, engage buddhism, so engages every aspect of life. Not just in the monastery in the retreat, but how he opened the door when you open the door your mind for they opening the door and what is I have to do with anything. We're relationship and I remember coming home after my second retreat in iceland the habit of it I'm coming in and in the door- is just in l lay you say no. I wasted time on these little. You know and how I threw my shoes after it's I would had, but I remember as to a few and you think that that would change. But when you came back home, tat habit is still there

I remember being mindful. Why do that and I remember a bug me because I couldn't stop it is, was I have and how I closed my car doors? Well, it's quite violent It dawned on me one time when I was have a conversation with the collie kip kind, like interrupting him. You know we get into these topics and excited and occasionally jump in without letting him finish. And I really did that to the way I treated the door. For me there was a moment where I see that. Actually I behave like that with other people just get it over with get it out away slam it. So you should don't waste my time and then so I made it a practice I take off my shoes, I take a one off and I take both a woman. I put it down and we had that practice in the monastery and

began to use that as a training, so there turn or training the diligence that effort. This of doing that and being my for concentrated it affected. My speech, you see, am I thinking so is the way, the buddha kind of invasion. How I interpret his path that is way that you can train personally and how that affects year. Interaction with the world. Through your speech action, you behaviour and your choice, you livelihood when you do as your work. Can we go through? The eight

specks of the path. I just to say. You know what it's translated as right, mindfulness, right speech, etc, etc. The other translations include, you know, correct or wise. Some of the ways the surf early buddhist teaching has been as late can be, I be no either still did or a little off putting, but just don't get her on that? This is really, as you have said, I love that phraseology of it being a manual. So can we start and just gonna go through each? so the people get a sense of what the fullness of each term and then how these concepts interlock. Yes, the way bright in peer and yet right, the stacey you react to when I first came to her but ages, indicating that is a way of doing something. You know is, gives you cook example: you know concentration be, could be right or wrong in a concentrated you'd focus in

effect. You wanting has wholesome and good intention and so on, or you can before. Is in constant eighty when you're trying to steal something, for instance, so there is a basic ethical. Underlying intentional what the buddha is trying to help them Ro in relieving less suffering and not causing more so there is a way of doing something where you cause more suffering and is a way of doing so. thing, where you cause less suffering? Fine, more relief That's where the word right comes from its answer, my cheek, he sang this is right in this is wrong. I know, because I am the king of the world, it's more like try this out an elaborate, of your own mind and see, what's right and what's wrong, what's wise and what's on what's helpful, what's unhelpful, exactly This is a one of the things that I have learned is do not become dogmatic. Is it becomes poison as well. So

We find the right thing and you share with someone and they're not ready to receive it, and it is the wrong thing because actually, when you learn something and you think is correct, you give it to someone and they're now ready for it that you're giving them poison cause kind of like when I first started meditating, and I lectured my wife about it all the time poison, for both of us exactly so that is incorrect even though it is correct practice. Yet That's exactly you know you got it, so you will have to be very careful. because we love to be right. Much more. My conversation with brother, father young right after this you I've heard about master class for years, but I'd, never actually checked it out, which is now making me feel a little bit stupid. But the news is the folks over at master class

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he's about to travel, a lot of wisdom is gonna, walk us through the entirety of the eight fold path. Quick note before we die back in here for you was recording from a monastery. So you may, on a couple of occasions here, a few monks chatting in the distant background to let that bother. You too much here now once again for young, starting with the first element of the eightfold path, right, mindfulness,. Tat go back to the elemental right. Mindfulness is part of the path they mindfulness. He is the state of awareness you doing something and you mine and your body is there. You're mine is fully present in the here and now and the technique they use. Train in the energy. Mindfulness is the breathing. and the awareness of the body

This is where meditation comes in, see yourself as a battery and mindfulness energy is how much loaded your batteries. and so the practice of being aware. The breath and staying with it. Constantly you develop, a kind of concentration is, were right, concentration comes in your mind, can home in and can fold. is when it wants to. So these are the two energies that are fundamental to our training. You can maintain and hold on to an idea. your anger two year whenever it is, something will come up? when you aware that there's angering me and you can hold it without going to eat or changing the subject. Getting out of the room going for a drive sit still,

Any view energy of mindfulness in concentration is well developed. You can he that anger and where the car comes from and you'll have insight, yeah right insight, view about it? So you no longer see that issues them or that person causing it there's many other conditions and by insight usually opens up it doesnt tighten it really. This is a not so a lotta ideas. We have a lot of things. We scary, we call in turn or nuts You have ideas about your wife yourself, you son your colleagues and they become little. Not and we hang onto him. We know pathways. I will call you keep going to that thought and not gets tighter

an insight has the ability to like release it. So we have those three elements. We cover three trainings and these are the first three aspects of the eightfold footpath right, mindfulness, right concentration, and right view or right inside yeah, and then we have right diligence which is. really need right. Diligence. It's not like showing up on every day right, diligence in the way the buddha described it. they beautiful is a mental kind of diligence when you recognize is something is arising. That is not so wholesome, not so skilful, In buddhism we don't say something is bad, something is evil. We just say it is not skilful yemen mastered it yet so one thing comes up, it's not so skillful is not so healthy is not so wholesome. Then you recognize it and you

access to bring it down. So whenever rises, you know what to do with it. You have to be careful. And slowly that see you don't a water it so meditation we see our mine is like the earth you have said of anger. You have seized the sadness of seeds, of understanding seeds of love and all these these when they rise up, you have to recognise how they helpful so when one knows more positive or more wholesome helpful cause lesson when you recognising new hold onto you tend to it, so you have for their ellen and on the other side of the circle, from right view how We view the world. How you view yourself makes how yeah, I think so right view leads thinking a wrong view about the world about yourself, please to wrong thinking about yourself

and about the world. When I say the word here is it could include the other person. You father, your mother Anybody who is living in a family were now. You know why you turn to your brother, you time, your sister, your wife father, your mother and you can look and see how you view them. We met. First, that in I hid did not really like they could be totally different person next day We don't allow that, but have you release and you have views like I did about my father and he changes then the way you think about him. Is they different right thinking and then from right thinking? It comes out of your mouth race speech, wherever you think, eventually it'll come out in a certain language or a sudden noise. Even so communication, I speech is not do sir,

You know how I slammed the door, you get it, don't you yeah, you heard that didn't you yeah! So how you speak loving speech, how to stop you so maybe a concentration and mindfulness energy is strong. You very careful to use speech, and this is all boy I really had to practice it this. I tell you a story how architect and I came in the monastery. Oh, my god is a mess. I wanted to correct and fix everything and I loved going to meeting when is about planning and fixing, but a roomy maya. Whether any It did I notice you really lose yourself when it comes to issue about planning You know in the media, by catch you- and I put my thumb in my mouth like a hook, then you have to stop talking. You can't talk from them

because you know you think the year as train architect. I know more than you guys, so I always how the right answer- and I always have to contribute so much In view of who I am and how I am educating architecture affected. How I speak in the meeting sandy. My brother, one time caught me put his finger like a fish. In his mouth, and I remember it was at the early part of the meaning for the rest of the meeting. I had to sit there and share anything. all my guys you are growing up in, ass. When you hear ideas- and you want to continue, it was tat- you know so anyway. That's right speech right. peaches, not always about speaking the right thing or what is right. Re speech is knowing yourself and compensating because you victorious not because you speak

the victorious, because you are not a slave to The way you have been cultured that was so liberating for me. That's the kind of speech happiness I'm talking about when I speak of happiness, These are the happiness of the training. and you move from my speech to write action, its even more complicated and more subtle. So there's a lot of very bias things under a speech in our action. That's why we slow down. We learn to stop a member learning to be quiet, not to make noise with things around me and when we eat it was a training as a young man to make noise. You begin to see many things. from action. When I see a brother stand up and how he stands up tells me a lot.

Because I have trained in that, and so you become well aware. When you entered the room, your body, you, energy, how you sit down anyway, is the right action, and then he moves into right livelihood- and I think you discovering this- you know I I wanted to talk to you because it like you, you're on the path is now you you'll find a livelihood that is in line with your heart. I feel I sense from this doing what people tell you should be doing add a fame or whatever. Now you, you have intention, know and that's right livelihood when you do something and for me particularly, is to serve to help. It is just amazing that is right. Livelihood for me

That's the thing we need to teach young people that we need to have a different view about our purpose. In the world. We educate people, as does become workers society collectively. we're just preparing people for salary and we forget to actually teach people to find that calling for them. So- and this is, you know, related to your endeavor to increase happiness, even if it's five percent or ten percent sorry to be less inactive. Those quite the it's hard to share a four path. Briefly apologize great him No, no, no, no, no need for apology, so that you did a great job. It is hard to that's a lot and you did it. There were very away and especially appreciate how you add in how you the bite it in your own life. Let me just close

by bringing it full circle, as we talked about at the beginning, this conversation about How one can orient oneself toward the world in particular wurlitzer dominated capitalism, materialism which can have nice aspects, creature, comforts aspects, but it could also have some pernicious impacts in terms of the climate in terms of the epidemic of loneliness, and so an you said that you sometimes if you Introduce this kind of against the stream message to early people can get triggered in there you get into their opinions and their hot takes, etc, etc. But if I understand correctly- and I hope you will correct me if I'm incorrect here- that this full path, is designed in part at least to help us walk the middle path between being

utterly abstemious and totally reclusive in rejecting everything about society or being. please caught up, on the other hand and fully stuck in a material, mindset in thinking that the only route to happiness that this eightfold path is a way to help us interact with the world with maximum all wisdom and skill. The site is the path. wakening, passive, becoming more aware of yourself and how the world works as this. Basically it your happiness is linked to your view of self, your view of others, and you see that is also the cause of suffering? Is he so happiness and suffering is very related, so the path helps an individual, and if we come together collectively we can

contribute more light, more awareness, more correct or open view about the world. That's why I am happy to sit with you and contribute. Wherever that I found helpful, I hope has been helpful. It has been a pleasure as well so big. Thank you really appreciate it. I thank you for being out there? Then we need people like you, you are in the monastery. We are always praying for people out there who are don't look like us who are in the trenches where awaken in the sense of having good intentions. Thank you dan for for having this conversation with me. Much appreciated! Thank you.

The brother from young was a player to talk to him want thank as well everybody who were so hard they show a reality to point five ex per week. Samuel Johnson is our team leader, the senior What is your dj? Kashmir is our associate producer. Our sound designer is met. Boyton from ultraviolet audio maria were tell is our production coordinator? Also, I think everybody from the tv which side who weigh in with such useful advice on the regular gent point toby was Levin and ben reuben owen. Housman, who is constantly pitching in with helpful advice, and finally, it would be remiss if I didn't and with hardy, salute to my abc news: comrades rank sir just tell him, We'll see on Wednesday for a fresh episode, a prime members? You can listen to ten percent happier early and ad free on amazon, music downloading

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