Marisa. Is there anything you want to get off your chest here before we start just? How was your day he tried to find out how scare you should be this curious my day was fine. How are you it's been good? Our watchwords was, do it. This is the ten percent happier part cast down here. Ok, give. This is an experimental. The sewed about how to be more experimental in your own life. How and why take more risks, a little back story. We ve been trying to do a bunch of experiments right here on the show. Over the past couple of months, we tried chatty or episodes that we called meditation party with tried doing a few into.

With celebrities, we've tried adding a third episode on fridays. We've got our first live episode, coming up, that's with Joseph Goldstein, on the subject of nirvana and have just launched a weekly newsletter, I'm only five or ten years later that trend anyway. On the subject of the news letter, the most recent experts, but we ve been running. We wanted to do a special episode to announce to you and yet you all to sign up by the way the link to sign up is in the show notes, The news, letters weekly roundup of life, hacks, cultural recommendations, ah news and upcoming events, but We didn't want to do something, a lame that would waste your time. You know just make a big deal about the newsletter and not at a lot of value. We wanted to do something that we find an interesting in. You full, so we doing a whole episode about risk taking and experimenting. We thought it might be helpful and educational, while giving you a fun peak behind the scenes.

and allowing us to be a blatantly self promotional in the process. A win win win this episode, I should say, is experimental in its format, because we don't have a typical guest. me and senior editor marisa schneider man who's been collaborate. with me on the news letter chatting about our own attitudes towards risk and then playing some key soundbites from somewhere best guests, including brene brown, Adam grant, rick, Rubin and Sarah cooper- marisa, I should say, is a fascinating person- was a key member of my little team and is also a deep dharma practitioner herself, who once did a three month, silent meditation, which was controversial with her family to sign up for the news letter by the way, good at ten percent, dotcom, slash podcast again, I will put that link in the show notes now, on with the show. After we pay some bills. Have you ever noticed that some food

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Mr Harris. How are you going to demand that you call me, Mr Harris henceforth I like that it's got a ring, but once in a while you knew. Are you nervous? I mean you just stumbled on the way airbus, so I'm wondering if you're nervous talking to me, I'm normally behind the scenes telling gas that they should be calm and that I am in service of making them good, but now that I'm in the hot seat, I'm having different feelings about it, so you're taking a risk. regular experiment, good on you why are we doing this episode? So we are doing this episode because right, now. In the ten percent happier world, we are going wild with experiments one first and foremost, the news or, as you mentioned your five years late to the game but you're. Finally, he sending out a weekly news letter, which I have and then- and I am really happy about- but there is also a bunch of other expiring

that we're doing and those are really risky. You know we have our bread and butter. We have our monday. Episodes are wednesday. Episodes but we want to expand, we want to create more further listener. Yeah. I will have said this the introduction, but will we wanted to do in episode where we announced the news letter and some of the other experiments were working on, who wanted to add some values so that people could you'll, hear the news of whatever it is trying to promote, but also talk about the importance of taking risks which were to do at length right now, exact it's so loud out there there's so much and every choice we make in a sense as a risk and experiment. So I think pretty much. Anyone listening can get something from this episode So what bring in bringing some voices of past guests who talked about risk taking and experiment. king, with a high degree of eloquence and also evidence, let's play a clip to start from Adam grant, who

a professor at Morton and a multiple, never one best selling author and he's got a new book called hidden potential and at all about the science of achievement and one the things he recommends for people who want to achieve great things is to take risks and to get comfortable with discomfort. So here's an I think that seeking discomfort, those is about much more than just confronting unpleasant or unwanted thoughts? It's also putting yourself in situations where you are likely to fail. Where you be judged negatively, where you might even embarrass yourself. So one of the things happens when you seek discomfort, it's you will make a lot of mistakes and I found it time that the people who end up growing the most are the ones Two are able to tell the difference between an acceptable mistake and an unacceptable mistake there, the p.

Who who know how to strike a balance between when I need to strive for excellence, and when? It's ok to say, It is good enough and I think that's a difficult skill. Now it marissa. So I think about this. A lot like for us with the news letter we launch it. We cast of soft launch it a few weeks ago and the first couple of additions weren't my best work, fine there were like what in the tec world, we call the minimum viable product for me that, seems like a model like you were trying something new and so we're not putting all its pressure on ourselves too is it broke out of the gate? Do grew that yeah and it was really nice working on the back and because I feel like we didn't have to our momentum. You know we were going going going building building the past couple of months and then we had

framework which we are working with. We were going to do it based on the buddhist concept of the six cents stores and launch the news letter, but realise that actually, we didn't quite wanna, have the fanfare, yet and we just needed to see how it was landing and see how it felt for you it's like trying on a new pair of shoes or something, and I think it was great that when we weren't one honey, per cent sure of what we were going to do. We didn't just stop the work and say: okay, let's not put anything out there. Let's not do this. Let's see who's going to read it, let's see how it feels for us to make it and then just continue. to evolve with their. In already we ve been making like big changes on the news letter and I'm sure more changes will come here. I think it's a third pillar which is good the rat overtime, we pray. Much no is no one was reading for the first couple waste goes. We didn't really announce it now were making a big deal out of it and people will start reading it after we ve gotten a little

better, at what we're doing a little clearer on exactly what we are trying to do and will probably can too iterate as we get feedback in that strikes me as a message differed from the way used to workers in tv news like you work all day or you were for several weeks and you create a report in its out and then there's does no taken aback. It's been broadcast in tech. You know why First was involved in co, funding of meditation app. We may- yet we made m m vp a minimum viable product and that we just changing it as consumers told us what they didn't like him, what they did like, and I find that to be a much more satisfying. Way to work and we need it makes using a tv show or now in my case now like a book. It makes that so much more terrifying cause. You can't really take it back yet that there's something for you to offer every one every week is really great and that you can Can you to build on that? I don't think I think about when I think about making experiments taking risks. we're doing a lot of that. Right now is how to do.

Without drive and ourselves crazy. I have this. I'd love to hear you speak candidly about this, because you're laughing already cause. You know, I think, where I'm going with this or I kept. This is an area where I can get a little nuts, because I am so ambitious and I think beneath the ambition, is some fear and some greed and I can come up with a million ideas. Maybe a couple of them are good and definitely not all of them and then my worst, I can insist on doing them all immediately. We ve come up with a term on our team. That, I think has been very helpful, which is sanely ambitious. So we have sessions brain stars where we up with a million ideas, and then we kind of let it settle and and then we figure out what are the best ones, and then we figure out okay. How and when can we do this in a way that doesn't burn everybody out? Am I fooling forests of what I just said that land with you. What you said is definitely accurate,

and I actually love being around someone that is filled with ideas. So for me that feels very inspiring like as a creative person. I love that you constantly have ideas, but then again as senior editor of the show, I'm one of the main people then need to help execute those. I guess so others there is definitely attention there. There's the buddha sutra if the sitar, the loot and Dan. I have a feeling. You love this story, so I'm gonna, let you tell it. I love this example. Reza yeah, it's somebody comes to the buddha and says: how do I know how much effort to put and in meditation? Sometimes I feel like I've tried to hard. Sometimes I feel like I'm trying not hard enough and the buddhas like if you play the loot or the citizens stringed instrument, you wanna tune the strings, not too tight and are too

and that's like a process where you get better at finding like what is the right amount of effort? And I think what you're saying is we're trying to figure that out for ourselves exactly and that feels really good to realise it is in process it's the middle way and it's all it there's, not necessarily perfection where strive for something and again we're trying to be sanely, ambitious, we're trying to create a culture where everyone on the team is able to contribute idea. and we can keep building on those pillars a lot going on. But it feels really good that there are so many different ideas that are floating around and some of them we already have set into motion yeah, we'll set and we're talk about how to create a culture where risk taking is rewarded and failure is ok. Bernay browns contact, then a few minutes, but what were at this point with just getting people comfortable with idea of taking risks and being uncomfortable

bringing the voice of rick reuben he's a legendary record producer. He was on the show recently and he has a new book out called the creative act and he talks about the importance of creativity and one of the things that he and I discussed was: how do you know what success is? You can try much stuff better Are you gauging whether you ve done well and I loved what he had to say? So here is my who's to say what successes judging success in a very particular way. Success isn't necessarily material success. Many of the great works of art that we look at it now is great works of art were in their day not considered that rolling stone. Put out this book, of all of the articles written about an eel young, appeared in rolling stone and eat one of his albums would come out and they would get a terrible review and like after the gold do you know more,

boring cowboy songs from neil men harvest another stinker men, and it would talk about all of them and then you get to the best albums a decade and niels albums would all be at the top of it. In the same in the same publication, albums of the decade, so you never know, and so times an artist needs to do something really challenging for themselves that allows them, get to their next phase of work. they do another in the mould of the successful ones before it could be the end of the whole thing in a crime. it is a life there were these peaks and valleys and dipson, dives and twists and turns- and we crazy risks, but they're all me pursuit of making the best thing. We can over a long period of time over and over again- and if you know like this one. It's ok, you know, that's, ok, it's like you're entitled european in its

usually the best you can do in that moment. The time when the what I've seen is the up set of the artist thinking. Okay, now we're successful now we have this obligation. What do they want from us where the we made that was successful. We made your lee passion when nobody was looking and nobody cared, we were being true to ourselves. That's how we got here and now we have all these people counting on us and telling us what to do so if we listen to them, who knows what's gonna happen and often the this sophomore slump comes from just much well meaning input from people who again make the mean well, they don't know nobody knows that. I think nobody knows I love rick Rubin. That was a great episode and something I think about when I listen to that and think about our taking risks and setting up. governments on our two is something that my friend

gretchen reuben, has also been on the show. Many times has her own podcast called happier sunday, she said to me off mike in our personal relationship. When we talk about work, is that often she and her team will will try something new and it doesn't succeed by the conventional metrics, like maybe they'll, launch a new project and it doesn't sell as well. as they thought, I'm just making something up hypothetically, but at least to a bunch of other things and so can't necessarily judge every risk or every experiment by traditional metric. You have to judge I think it s sort of holistic way. So this new newsletter we ve launched or some of the other experiments we ve done like putting episodes on Friday's and maybe interview a few more celebrities and doing live events which people will hereabouts from us. Some of these other experiments we ve done. They may not work

in one way, but I think we'll learn something for sure and they might work in other ways that are surprising and really cool yeah. I really agree with you one thing coming is airing live, shows on the podcast and that's gonna be happening in a couple weeks, so everyone get excited for it. We hosted the events in stan in september, and there were a lot of different layers to what made this experimental. First of all, we had a very special secret guest on the bill and we decided not to reveal it. We were just like. Ok can Dan Harris sell out a room and we were really happy to see that their we also decided to have an extremely esoteric topic, and it's a topic that we ve all heard about But normally you ve heard about it selling a smooth ii, which is the concept of nirvana. So even Joseph A little trepidation like are you sure you want to bring this up to people and it was so great like in the room there was so much excitement one for

We want to see this special gas joseph Goldstein too, to have this really need topic that not many people talk about and then see a different side of danny switches dan Harris, that's working the room and really engaged with the audience, but then experiment on top of that, too, will be hearing this on the feed and seeing how does having like alive show coming through. Aren't you but in the intimacy of a podcast land for people, I'm currently editing it right now. I think it's gonna be great, but we're going to find out. Yeah. This is a great example. I'm glad you brought this up. We take this with Joseph a few weeks ago, air soon, and who can we talk about nirvana as he can? ni nibbana witches? That's the word than a different ancient indian language and yeah we joseph his nervous about it. I was nervous about it for budgetary reasons, you're nervous about it and I think it right worked, although I really do want to hear from the audience after we posted please let us know what you think so, just to be clear.

The interview we do with Joseph, which is gonna post soon, that's the first live podcast casts we recorded, although Think we did a one off up many many years ago, but was cotton not connected in any way to the coup? iteration, what we're doing so. This really really our first true live of antwerp selling tickets to come. see me in conversation with somebody, and I were really nervous because it fell likely you're, throwing a party, and you don't have any, was gonna show up and it feels like a referendum on your relevance and You know like ability and for me that's the scary part of doing these live events, and I think we're going to move into doing more of them, but I dunno, if I'm going to be able to get over that aspect of the fear yeah. That's something really interesting to work with I think with fear what Adam site about seeking discomfort? I don't like being uncomfortable, I liked being comfortable hook with them. We all do so. The fact that you're like ok, I don't know how get over this

aspect of fear and I'm still going to give it a whirl is really saying something and who knows you don't actually know what will happen right now. I feel extremely charming and comfortable. Ten minutes ago I was so nervous to talk to you so impermanence times is really good. I think about a meditation retreat. I bet you ve done a lot of meditation retreats, including a three month retreat and Impermanence is a thing you start to get quite intimate with, because you you're you're, seeing how like, in some ways your slowing your whole life down but you're more awaken aware, what's happening in a moment and like you're, seeing a pain in your knee, gives way to a venal thought gives way to the sound of a bird chirping and and that can get quite rapid and its eerie in some ways. But it's also when you're dealing with something uncomfortable. It's reassuring to know that it's going to change in one way or another, and for me I dunno, like we're going to talk about motivation coming up and and maybe should I got it now, but you said something nice about you know it's it's telling

exciting that you you're nervous about these live events in you're. Doing it anyway, and I wonder like him I am I am I am I doing that. Why am I my doing that, because I want to be in the stall beings everywhere. I want to face my fears and grow, or is it because I am ambitious and I want to like it's not about personal growth bout professional growth of this show and wanting to make more money and be more successful and is it I once described my tv career I used to be a news anchor And- and I have panic disorder and I once described my career as a triumph of narcissism over fear, and so I like I try to have some degree of this ability into why I'm doing things, and that is something I struggle with and are using.

two harder myself, whereas the EU these questions, I really should be asking. I guess I don't see it as being hard on yourself. I think it's self awareness- and I think self awareness is great. I dont know how much judgment I here, maybe I'm like miss hearing, but I think you're kind of really living. The question is really- status you're sort of mulling it over and saying what is my motivation here like? I think the fact that you are investigating it to me seems fruitful job then? I think you know, and I think you're right you can not layers off the hook, and you can also b to self lacerated. Where I've you know, I've done I a bit of wrestling with this for myself. Vs of he might work in the meditation space for awhile, and I think where I've landed with it, with the help of my coach, jerry Colonna, has also been a guest on the show. Several times is that human beings. I'm gonna have self interest and that's ok, that's normal unhealthy and

I can also be motivated by a desire to help other people and create awesome shit that helps people do their lives better and and in some ways in many ways and profound ways, those to interact in a positive way, because the more on being helpful, the better I feel were banned with I have to do more, but it about having enough. I try to be really In about some his ability into. Why am I doing what I do so that it doesn't get to corrupted by the natural cell interest. It is why I you know I'm always hammering about I have this tattoo on my wrist of for the benefit of all eggs to remind me, because I am so naturally a fish to remind me to open the aperture and go beyond mere self interest, to also be thinking about what is the benefit to other p all from whatever it is. I'm doing yes, and I think it also speaks to the sanely ambitious,

All. Is that we're trying to balance reaching as many people as possible for the sake of having this message come out, but also it can feel like oh is that a key that we want to build the numbers, but I always feel like I'm so happy to work on the show, because it really is in service of uplifting people, so there's an impact there, and you know it's been a while we'll get an email or a message or I'll, see someone on the street and they hear what I do and the ways they talk about it impacting their lives really is meaningful. So what's also exciting about these experiments is that maybe we can reach who indifferent listeners, of course, without alienating our current listeners and that's why we always want feedback as while we want to make sure that they also pick up what were putting down. But this idea of being able to reach more people feels really vital. You're grow again part of being sanely ambitious is not just do

things as I like to say: a com stately way, an orderly fashion, not my usual frenzied it headless chicken way so part of sanely ambitious. Is that it's a part of it is also having natural desire to see the number listener numbers go up while bearing in mind that our job is to help people and I think for me, one thing that's been really helpful, is a concept that I this is so typical for me, a concept that I wrote off as new age poppycock, but is actually based in rigorous scientific evidence from what I can tell is intention setting setting an intention. I do it well. wake up in the morning. I do it before exercise, I do it before I go to sleep, I do before meditate and I do it when I can remember to do it on the the various projects that were working on that. My intention is twofold: it is to build a successful business and to help people

and those two intentions. I think Kennedy. Of a positive double helix, a reinforcing virtuous spiral. So I don't love army, maybe I'm gettin high own supply here, but that's the story. I told myself. I love that I have also been getting into intention setting I've been thinking about it specifically inspired by communication: coaches, Dan, clementine, moody, tennis, skirt. They talk about setting a positive intention before every conversation and and finding that so invaluable? I look at my mind, is proliferating with thoughts sort of like this sheet of cookie dough and it's almost like falling over the table there. So thoughts everywhere. But what's my positive intention for that conversation and Is what I'm thinking? What I want to say: does it fall in line with? I have a cookie cutter image. So for me it's a heart, but maybe it's a cookie cutter of a double helix fifth events possible and we want to

is what we are creating in line with that intention and just always try to directly work in that mode. Just wilson. Let's go back to this. You said it earlier. I don't wanna be uncomfortable and that that is need neither, and so we we talk about this a little bit with as erika, whereas a great comedians depressed, perhaps best known for doing these interpretive dances of Donald J trump back during his presidency on Tik tok, where she would sort of mimic him as he said, something ludicrous and she's gone on to write a book called foolish and it's all about being willing to look and feel foolish and so, if she is telling the story of running into a young woman who is sitting on up park, bench cry and thinking about all her past mistakes and in what way through her mind in that moment. This is the last quote from the book that I read back to you, but it seems to kind of sum up, one of the core learnings. The quote is

if you're out there thinking about every mistake you ever made, don't you did it exactly the way you were supposed to get excited about what you'll try next time, because there will be a next time yes, it was so fortuitous that I came across this one, and just crying alone on a bench most coming home from doing a set, in the neighborhood, and I had to sit down and ask her if she was okay- and she said literally, I'm just sitting here, thinking about every mistake I've ever made- and I realized that what I did. I was punishing myself over and over and over again from mistakes that I thought I had made in the past, and I was able to comfort that woman in that moment, because I still didn't really have the tools, but I was so happy to be able to write that book, because I'm saying to myself as much as I'm saying it to everyone reading it. I had to tell myself that there will always be another chance. As long as I keep going

and so I wish I had set out to her, but I put it in the book and it's something that I have to remind myself. Like that's, probably some kind of tattoo. I would get is to remind myself at its never over in a keep woken up cave for dinner. I love that higher, no cameras. How comfortable are you with me up? I hate it hard for me, professor Clearly, I'm not I'm not the only one by senior pretty sir dj cashmere. He recently shared some notes from a doormat teacher veni for our oh and many sad dont cheat on the present with the past and the future, and I thought oh yeah me and my mistakes or my future mistakes. So I think I do have some discomfort, but an practicing and learning so I'm trying at something, but I want,

at better at what about you. You know I don't like it, but I'm comfortable with it I'm part of it. For me as having had this experience of near, ten years ago, writing tempers and happier and talking about avenant coke fuelled panic attack on national fuckin television and fearing that it might in my career and then finding that I was getting a lot of applause. Instead, it really old and me to be honest, says one thing thing is meditation itself is just a series of humiliations. You know you're sitting down and you're supposed to hear you're. Supposedly this good people meditate or in your mind, is filled with all this horrifying, embarrassing shed and you keep getting two strategies start again and again and again over time. You develop a little bit more of a sense of humour and a willingness to make mistakes. But there's a great expression, Zan expression, area,

an airing. I walk the unerring path and I really like that that I expect of myself and my team excellence, but I don't expect info ability and I find when I can remember that I find it to be a big relief yet, and I feel like you do message that in the way you communicate and live at least with us, as a team I don't know how you are an off hours, but I feel like you, really try to message that it's ok to make missed eggs and you're, not necessarily seeing them ass mistakes, and I might have some stories in my head about how people are going to treat me or how dehumanize myself. When I make a mistake as though I shouldn't have made one, but I think that You often you're really good at like seeing something and moving on. I think that's good for the culture for little team culture.

Do you think that there's some gender empower stuff here lavishly omby amby, rabbit abbas and also like I'm older and white male typical neuro? typical. So a lot of things that you are not yet again that the fact that so I know you do have such as the usa, china, it's interesting. It's like this probably is not further at this hour. I remember as a sign that definitely is, in silicon valley ten years ago, as like employee number, thirty two at a start up now valued in the billions. It's a very big company, not a great time. Pre me to movement. All that as- but I remember just my like me- and my mantra for work is to just be like a mediocre white man that serve to spot like what I wanted to strive for, and that was success and

Oh, I don't think you're mediocre. I dont think any one on our team is mediocre, but I think that something you know that we wrestle with in the culture like that being a mediocre white man that being privileged prized and often may be creative, non linear brains, people that tell present a certain way, there's just more scrutiny, things don't slide by as easily. So that's definitely something that I am working with, and I know other people work with his well. Then let me just it wouldn't cut this. If you want, but just to sailor, but more about you, you are female terrifying, half jewish half hispanic area, while my mom's argentina, ok, rush circuit for full force. White have hispanic without be with you once asked grabbed yourself as a spicy white effect that which I thought was very funny and sue you describe it off his nerve, diverse as well. Yes, so I think, it's easier for somebody who came out of the womb, as I did to be

kay with fucking up then then, perhaps it is for you totally and think there can also be some grief, definitely was diagnosed with a d later in life in college, I've just ignored it and kept going, you know always got good grades was really successful, but there is still a lot of grief. When I look back and think, while I was put in detention every day in first grade for talking too much or just these little things that I feel like, if there was more space for being different, that there might have been more like safety and acceptance and how I could carry that with me now, but at the same time, all those little obstacles, they also build up who a person is and we get to grow with them. And I think it also allows me to see things in a different light. That's valuable! So I also feel proud being on your team because we reach so many listeners in it.

Oh yeah, I'm, you know helping build something like that. Yes, you are you're doing great. We ve been talking in this conversation. Mostly were the professional world, but, of course, risk taking is super important in our personal lives, is well pretty brown who's. This incredible author has been on the show. Several times as she's written many many best selling books has a show on h, b, o especial special netflix, a bunch of huge ted talks and shit it's a lot about her term is vulnerability, and in this clip she talks about how we can do this, inter personally,

also touches a little bit on a culture of risk, if you so wish. Listen to Bernie, so the definition of honor billowy that emerged from the data is the emotion we experienced and homes of uncertainty risk an emotional exposure. So vulnerability is an affected emotion that we feel when we feel uncertain at risk or emotionally exposed, meaning we may lose control of our motion or were showing the motion, and we can't perceive what people think of us because about emotion. So that's vulnerability and certainty, risk emotional exposure and I think the best way to think about operational icy net is most of us in order to say saved and vulnerability, especially growing. I developed effective, armor

like how do we? How did we learn to manage uncertainty and uncertainties? Much more threatening as a child and as an as an adult right, because I mean your survival could be at bay. You at risk. Over the years we learned to armor up, and there are many different forms of armor perfectionism is one cynicism moves. Wine control. Is wine power I mean there's a lot of different ways. We are up against and certain gave again. I've checked all those, but yeah allowed him to go into companies because they're having struggles, run innovation and creativity, but they ve set out these perfectionist cultures where failure is completely punished. And so you can't expect people to innovate and create if you don't allow people to fail, because, by definition in it she is iteration failure and iteration. Like that's the definition, whether to questions that come to mind for you were so one is, and we may have already touched this: whether we will have set up a safe place fur innovation and failure and adoration. You, madam feel, safe, answering washing cause you're on the line with your boss and then the other way,

It is really I'd love to hear like how well or not you are able to take risks into personally, ok, cool. I thought you're, just gonna! Ask me: what's my favorite armor, I want the job, a barrier that do so, let's see our team. Your constantly saying please take risks. Please take risks and we see you doing that, but I think you can, you know be like ok, let's do for episodes a week and then in our little chat without you were like oh shit, do we have time to to fact that what's he thinking, but we always have good conversations about it. I guess in a way maybe the inner personal and the professional that are going to tie in here. So you had mentioned earlier that I did a three month, silent retreat, and that was a big risk for me most people in the

life were very unhappy about me doing that they just thought it was insane. Maybe I was going to join a calls. It would definitely not contribute to my professional career. It would set me back and also it means logging off from society for three months. So there's a lot there and I did it anyway, and actually we can see how right now my career is very much supported and bolstered by that three months, silent meditation retreat did. I have any clue when I did that. Absolutely not. I just thought I'd be something I do and that was it it's not something I'm putting on my resume. It's not something I messaging out to people well until I started working at this company, so I feel like that was sort of an interpersonal risk that I take in, and I feel like, because of

my interest in buddhism and dogma, which I know is so important to you and the show. I have also been able to pitch different ideas about I'm ways that we can like message that out to our listeners- and even recently I was really excited, like I remember just so- excited about doing this project on the ten para me is one of the buddhist less often translated as the ten perfections as just like working on the weekend. It felt like forty eight hours straight so excited just so excited about this topic, and I had such an amazing idea of who we were going to have and how we are going to represent it in a whole narrative involved, and you gave me the go ahead to work on it go for it out you going get a message to the entire team: ok dance at bravo like this thing and

one come on pitch ideas to this. We're gonna do this in january, so everyone can know what kind of show we are and we're gonna get really experiment, above all and then that we have the pitch meeting and the first thing you say is I didn't read this: and then we had an hour and a half meeting after and I'm like. Ok, what's gonna happen here, and it was really good because we talk later and what kind of became clear as you had read it, but it was in your too weak magic window of long island, beach, vacation and it was sort of a quick thing and you had a really thought through again. in the experimentation. What quite makes sense and in a way the idea of doing this sort of buddhist list with may be. Having like a buddhist dominatrix talk about truthfulness, maybe felt a little too risky for january programming.

januarius the new year. That's really when we're gonna get new audience listener ship. We want to have heavy hitters, so it made sense that you needed to scale that back and it was really good. We had a conversation and obviously there was some disappointment like oh wow. I worked so hard on this. I was so proud and then, of course we all work remote, so it can feel like we're just kind of in our own little silos. So even like weathering the disappointment can feel kind of like a cam alone in my house. That's ok, I feel, like you kept saying, I don't want you to stop with the ideas. This is important and it also sort of his lending itself to other ideas that were playing out and discussing on the team. And then you also message to the team: hey. There was a miscommunication and also encouraging everyone else to bring all of their exciting kooky curious aging ideas to the team report,

As your gangs, I really did fuck that up and I think we're gonna do the pyramid series over the summer. So the, it is dominant tricks is not lost forever to our listeners and for here's actual. We have a big blockbuster line up that marisa has been honcho showing. That is gonna, be pretty pretty amazing yes, I'm really glad you tat your bring this up of because it is a great example of me is growing up. In fact, there is a better example that move that's been happening recently in this will last ethical, it back to the interpersonal so because this is your personal among our team members, but it's not like me, taking some big professional risk, its more me taking a interpersonal, risk in asking you guys about like air. is where I am messing up. Interpersonal communication is generally, and we big team meeting the other day about how since I'm so hard to read, I have a poker face and since I am the boss, people are

nice, every facial expression fir wood. Do I like them? Nor am I in a bad mood or like a my unhappy with their work, and yes, I don't often manage that. Well, I'm not often we were working on coming up with a common language so that I can tell people okay well, if I'm short today, it's because I didn't get to sleep last night- has nothing to do with you. You don't need to take it personally and I was unhappy- so for having mess that up a couple times in phone calls resumed all were on lack, but I was very happy at the time was coming well telling me hey damn here's where you need to improve- and I will say just so listeners. No, when you say getting short you're, not screaming your head off, its may be being a little kurt and also. I am so glad that this is an open conversation. I feel like that. So rare, but in no way be as its an open conversation, it can almost may be feel more paranoia depending on the type of person you are. So, just being like, oh eight, he didn't say that he didn't have lack of sleep now he really doesn't like me or who knows why? But I think it's

Also, it's just a matter for us to learn to work on ourselves too, because I really feel like. I can trust you and trust you to be direct. Even in preparing for this discussion were having now. I think there was two or three times where you're like I don't understand what you're saying and I was like, oh my god, I'm a buffoon, and that I was like no actually I'm so glad. You said that, rather than not saying something because bernay brown again, she says clearness of kindness but were not used to direct communication and back to the gender question when we all have the communication discussion. There's a lot this sort of socialism. Oh, what a round how we communicate. I was even saying, like I'm sort of tired of using exclamation points, but I dont know how to quit them so, and I feel like that, something that being socialized female as needing to kind of have a little happy face. So I think we are all trying to like D programme ourselves slightly for the common good and its great that we're doing it in community, yes or no, and public yup

I'm so exposed I in terms of taking risks. I've, yemen on probably too it's about and it's not going to get better, because I'm writing a whole book about it. But I've talked a lot about how I got a three sixty review, which is like this anonymous survey of the people in your life and this, and this in two thousand eighteen and was really devastating and one of the peace, a feeble I got was on de, and it wasn't about being a liar because I've many shortcomings, but that's not one of them. It was about that. I wouldn't tell people if I was upset, because I personally wasn't willing to take the risk vulnerable, and give clear feedback, because I didn't want to deal with the global and I'm really train of even those uncomfortable should be direct with people in a respectful. Hopefully, respectable kind way, because I really agree with what eight rounds edge

clear, is kind, and even though it may be the harder choice in the moment it is the best thing for everybody, and you know you asked first you're not just doling out the feedback, like I think, for a thin. So it's like, creating these norms together. Yes, I mean the buddha was very clear about this too. As you know, he said to his son say that which is true and useful and at the right time and that's not a bad said it rules for feedback, I mercer we're almost there this and then, by the way I can hear my wife and my son just brought home a new kitten, and I can hear them in the next room. When I want to go see this kitten. So just let me ask you- and this may be a little bit perfunctory, but is there anything we missed? What's the name of your kitten, I think we're going to go with Curtis because there's a great comedian, tony baker, who does videos on instagram tik tok, where he takes animals doing funny.

If any voices them over and you get a recurring theme of a cat and dog courtesan rudy, and so I think we're going to call It has been. I dunno I good I'll, go, find out and see what the the bosses have decided. Okay, you'll have to let the listeners now my will you can tell us a little more about the news letter. Yeah. Ok, so the newly afrits deadness should hegemony moaning, this news letter, which is the reason we are doing this thing in the first, but I guess the newsletter letter you can sign up. There's a lincoln the shone out. You can sign up there and every week, you're gonna get a wisdom bomb so that some piece of quick actionable piece of advice for doing your life, better They you're gonna get some what we're going fixations some stuff from the culture that I'm really into whether it has to do with meditation or happiness or not often it doesn't it's like some video. I've. Seen I really like a tv show or a book or a song of act, Mirza and and I have created spot spotify, I playlists that were calling the imf, an ear of all of the very, very catchy songs or cat,

to me. Songs that I like and then I'm doing more live events both for the pakistan, otherwise put a running list of live events that I'm doing and were so gonna do a run down of this week's podcast episodes. All very quick and pithy, and will be your inbox on thursday mornings and yet did I say everything: mercer yeah, I'm really biased, of course, but I really loved your newsletter. I've already watched an amazing documentary, I'm about to start up a great novel. I've heard some new music. I've learned some great wisdom, and it's also just it's pithy and precise. So I really appreciate that. Thank you and you're a huge part of that too, If we're taking the risk in doing this marisa. I think you did a great job on this and I'm grateful I'm glad thanks and thank you again to marissa for participate

in this experiment. She, by the way, had a revelation after this recording that maybe there's no such thing as mistake. Digging into that with her at a later date, don't forget to sign up for the news. Let her go to ten percent dotcom, slash, podcast way there will be pictures of Curtis new kitten in the newsletter. I promise ten percent happier is produced by Gabriel's ackerman, justine, davy, Lauren smith and terror, anderson dj casual, our senior producer moorish nitrogen is our senior editor. As you know, Kevin o connell is our or of audio and pike s. Production can be regular. Is our executive new sir alisha Mackey leads our marketing and tony magyars. Our director of protests, nick thorburn of the great band islands, wrote our theme Was he right back here on Monday for a freshly, a brand new episode a prime members. You can listen to ten percent happier Earl,

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