The ten percent have your podcast, I'm your host guy dan Harris the we ve got a great conversation for you today. I am not exaggerating. I loved this conversation. You ve been here from a guy who quite recently experienced a bitter and very public defeat and is high knowing it with an enormous amount of grace in ways that can be instructive too pretty much all of us, I think, I'll admit here than unbiased this guy's a friend. His name is tim ryan. For twenty years he was a democratic congressmen from ohio We ran for senate and lost to his republican opponent, J D, vance timid. I became friends many years ago. In fact, he's been on the show before we met not through my job as a journalist but

meditation circles. Tim was probably the only bigtime washington politician who was openly practicing and promoting meditation. In fact, he wrote a whole book on the power of mindfulness called healing america, and he has a special talent for talking about the benefits of the practice in an utterly unaffected and down to earth way. In this conversation, we talked about how his practice helped him, whether a brutal and like us at very public campaign, why he has joined the ice bath craze. The link between breath and meditation how he is adjusting to civilian life after twenty years in washington how he handled things when he realized the race was not going to go his way and what he was thinking and feeling when he made his concession speech. Don't miss out on the enjoy everyday walking meditation pack over on the ten percent happier up its available for free until august twentieth. If you haven't tried walking meditation,

before I highly recommend you check it out. Here is one user had to say I'm quoting here, I'm in my six the year with ten percent. I start and end my day with it. I like their walking meditations to use when I'm out exercising or walking the dog the longer I the more I learn, nuances and subtleties and refinements of the process is life. Changing. That's awesome here, download the ten percent happier after day wherever you get your apps and get started for free. The show is sponsored by better help. Sometimes in life were faced with tough choices in the path for it is not all clear what did yogi barrow say when you come to a fork in the road. Take it not very useful, although I guess Carter funny, but yeah. We don't always know what the right way to go is, and I find myself and many forks in the road or places where it does more than fork, and it can be really helpful to have expert advice to make better decisions. Whether we are dealing with this,

around your career, your relationships or anything else. There be helped. You stay connected to what you actually want, while you do your life, so you can move forward some confidence and maybe even some excitement trusting yourself to make decisions that align with your values is like it. else and life. The more you practice it the easier it gets. I spent quite a bit of time going over big decisions with my therapist ten, found them to be massively massively helpful if you're thinking about starting therapy, give better help a try it's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Let there it'd be your map with better help visit, better health dot com. Slash happier today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help. H e l, p e dot com, slash happier. Maybe you've stayed in an air bnb before and thought to yourself. This actually seems pretty

global, maybe my place could be an air be envy the could be, employers, starting with a spare room or your whole place. When your way you could be sitting on an air b and be gold mine and not even knowing I stay in air being bees and while I really enjoy it, is actually a terrific alternative to hotels, especially I got beach vacations when my family will have to be able to have a house more space for ourselves. So big fan and it really is something that many of us could take advantage of as an economic opportunity. For example, if there's a big music festival or tournament come into your city. That's a perfect opportunity to get out of here

I didn't avoid the traffic you can air bnb your home and make a little extra money, whether you could use a little extra money to cover some bills or something a little bit more fun. Your home might be worth more than you think, find out much more at air bnb, dot com, slash host TIM ryan, welcome to the show great to be with you, ma'am nice to see yeah, it's been a while it's cool to do this in person yeah. So we all watched you go through a really. Tough rough and tumble campaign, and I was wondering the whole time how's he doing again, as the meditation helpful you seem like happy warrior, but I don't know if you're politicians always be totally real. So does the metal, and how can you meditate, when you're on the campaign trail was essential? Lotta breathing cause you you know when you try to set your mind just going. Nods and you don't have like forty five minutes to like sit like clear out everything. So I got in there like really deep, breathing allow that women stuff

a lot of the art of living, stuff treasury teachers, and I was really helpful in five six minutes of that, drop right answer. I was able to do that pretty much almost every day, and then I would have liked before I went to bed. It was always like back in your body and so it kind of worked, but I'm just going to be geeky and ask a few like technical questions yeah. So when you're talking about deep breathing, you mean you'd, do five or six minutes of deep inhale and then exhales that are three times longer than the inhale yeah. I wouldn't mind the reds. I would do that. I would do the four seven eight like the andrew wile kind of in for four hold for seven out for eight. I would do that a lot but then, like the wim hof stuff, was like in out deep for, like thirty or forty wraps acts hale, which I've never done this until I start doing the whim, hostile acts hail and hold your breath. I've always been, in inhale for four hold your breath for salmon out for eight and for some reason his is like exhale and then he had occurred,

How can you like time? How long can you hold your breath, for, I think, part of its like what they got use. You stressors, you are stressors where you try language stress yet, like you just trying to prepare ourselves for like worshipped the half, hi you get used I'll read like the ice Bab like it's really good for your body boats, also good for your like dealing with pure of death and freezing the death. So I that that was really helpful. I mean that put me in the zone like for pretty much the whole campaign and I'd sneak in a hot yoga here there when you're running the senate in ohio. Do like not want to see. Have anybody know or notice that you're doing deep breathing in october. I know your beard, you ve, been out. Look about your meditation, have it for a while, but demand In a race like the one in which you were locked, you don't want to forget that stuff Vienna really may now. in the foreground like hey, I do kettlebells hey, I do you know why people don't want to hear about you you're there to talk about them and their needs and everything else. If people would ask me

but I'll tell him, you know that I do it about me, but in their we're all almost every event. Somebody would come up and say yeah. I read your book or hey. You know I practice meditation. It was pretty cool, I mean it's out there. Still, especially you know in ohio, not to the extent we probably needed to be, but there are people out there that are interested in it. You talked about five or six minutes of this deep breathing. Would you then, if you had time, sit and do some traditional mindfully, meditation yeah that was the beginning and then I'd try to do ten or fifteen minutes depending on the day like some days, you could sit there for twenty minutes cause you're in between events in there's, not in the dew and unlike amount of time, but at eliminating the do right now, I'm in a lake just be so that really to me is preparing to drop in and out of breath the preparation of one hundred percent. I mean I just honestly, like I don't really meditate any more without some serious, deep breathing beforehand. It just drops yeah I mean I feel like it saves you like, you can meditate

forty five minutes in my mind than the system sure people be critical, but I feel like I could do five to sixty the minutes are really deep, breathing and get like a ten minutes. annotation after that and be like in the same spot. I would be if I did a forty five minute meditation. This is interesting to me personally, because I had a guest on a couple of years ago was talking about deep breathing as a very complementary practice, especially at the beginning of a mindfulness meditation and I think he was talking about straw breathing, so, okay breathe in as deeply as you can through your nose and you breathe out through your mouth but as if you're breathing through a straw, and so I do five six seven of those before I said, you're gonna die A friend of mine got me this you're going to die. Telling me this that we're not on tv, but this guy, a friend of mine, sent me this and it's like, I know if it's titanium or what you can make it through the airport with it, but this is for your out breath. Oh so that's strawberry.

that is the first facilitated straw around my neck, and this has become a family joe by the way. So this is just a little jane with a little behalf, a straw, that's titanium! something I don't know what it is, but like the family joke now, because of my wife on my daughter. Somebody will be. There will start talking about something like stressful going on and somebody s, wife and I just is that right and the island and the like Everyone says that latin americans are not good. Law is better, but their works on the amounts of galicia is yet again is that people are making, but what you're making me think is that I should do more of it. I usually do made a minute or two, but perhaps I could really go for it and do five six minutes, because what is there to show they made a meditative or maybe they're, telling themselves story by other shady meditate

and allow for you not a romantic data if you don't have that store lying on his lips are going to use that for me, if I'm going for a longer said, which I hope to do daily, the first fifteen twenty minutes, your clearing out the guy image before there's some level of stability yeah, and I think what I'm hearing you say is actually, if you can do this breathing for a couple of minutes. Yes, deep, breathing, you drop in to use your terminology quicker. The one hundred percent- and I learned this through doing work with veterans- and the art of living foundation has a programme called project. Welcome home troops, get better and to have a lot of drama and those that can't really said their data that are going to sit in the sea common home would like real trauma and lake figure it out, so they go through a series of deep breathing technics dyke. I've been workshop. They have three day five day whatever, and you spend two or three

hours a day, and you start just doing the deep breathing through the power breath workshop in its unity. Put your hands up into the nose like thirty times, slow thirty times, medium thirty times fast, and then they settled and I've seen these vets go through this five days later down there, like, I don't say their healed, but they're like eighty percent of the way there they ve process the trauma. I said shit. What what am I like, screwing around fork, cause I'd, stood there for fifteen months like your minds, one notch. It's like talking yourself right. I got a conference call going on in your head as a meeting, but you do this breathing and I don't know if it's, I think part of it's gotta be physiological, but it's also like one too to your counting gas. So yours you getting your my ass kind of focused, that's part of it too. and then you're nervous system, parasympathetic and all that stuff that you ve talked about. Like you to settle in bone, then like ten

fifteen minutes goes a long way after that, so you're doing your practice in the midst of the early burly of a campaign and wondering what is the hardest psychological dynamic for you, when you're locked in this kind of competition with another candidate? Is it managing? Maybe your personal feelings about the other person Is it being at what it's like to be attacked with not only by your opponent but also by your opponent's allies and all this money that pouring into the stated to dismantle you? Is it fear, losing or at all of it events my naming all the triggers yeah pretty much all of the above am in part of it was like. I wasn't getting any help from democratic. There are some like I'm in this big fight. I'm good this guy on the robes. I can't get democrats in D c. The pay attention so like a band than men should assume that wasn't like that bad. But here all this

you know in the senate was hanging in the balance of the was like a lot alike. Man we can either go with them direction. Ass, sir go with whatever and you're gonna like determine that one was, but I gotta tell ya in. I think part of this is my f letting background. The lot of it has just been the meditation. The practice for the last ten fifteen years. I knew I didn't have any control over that stuff. In the last couple of years, I've gotten like stoicism and read all right, holidays books and following twitter and daily stoic, and it's like you only have control over what you have control over, and so I just kept back to that in that kept me really in the zone for like the campaign, because I just I have control of chalk humor. What's up fifty million dollars and make my case All I have control over is this stump speech I'm giving now in front of a hundred and fifty people and date, no I'll and am I gonna move them so that they walk out of here and want to campaign? For me? Am I touching them

ocean. Can I mean them only way. can do that is if I'm here and so that. Became a real disappoint for me, like as a personal development, regardless of politics. In anything else, I do more as a human being being in the fire of having to be mentally upon the like. Not given your ego, not that I didn't now we're about losing our about winning a word about the outcome, but just being in the moment and it was tested under fire, but it does sharpen you like it. You know you want to be in the present moment, like okay, have a bunch of people coming at you with stuff, and stand the present moment and if you can do that, then you're pretty good to go. Yes, I believe it is not a scalable p. of advice to run for Senate that no it is not, but it's fascinating, yeah yeah, it's fascinating. You know he talked about stoicism and it brought to mind

and by the way, I think we're trying to get right holiday on the show ran all day just for people who are not familiar with them newsletter and our social media feed called the daily stoic in his written, a bunch of books about stoa, yes, hello, Riah, the code that was my for me was actually not from a stoic philosopher. But from a fellow politico years ago I heard David Axelrod ran obama's campaigns and worked in the white house I've seen em contributor in a pot cast her. I was in an off the record briefing with him in two thousand wells and somebody who's asking him like. How do you manage the stress of running the reelect for Barack Obama? And he said, all we can do is every we can do. I thought that was perfect. You do everything you you gotta do and that's all you can do that's all you can do yeah I mean and he's teasers and master. You know I did a couple of days at his institute in january And when the bulls game with them, which is like font, it's one of those weird things that happen. You in life, like the chicago bulls, game

David Axel will happen without but he's a total, then master, and that's it. I think anybody you see performing at that level. running a presidential campaign running for president, Tom Brady, sir currently the other night lebron that last night, whatever their? Not worry, about the fans cheering not cheering or winning there in the moment and if you're not doing that, you're not functioning at the highest level in the lot about trash, talking and stuff and we're kind of the same age. So I periodically for like just kind of mine, candy I'll go back and watch stuff about larry bird or, like guys, I grew up watching, and it was all this trend talk and that bird they said he was the worst trash talker history of the mba, and it would be like John sally and it would be like Michael cooper. All these guys are the worst here's the worst. It was a strategy he get in your head

and he figured like if you're not mentally, disappoint enough. The handle my shit talkin to you, then am I get the edge and so what you think people scream and Tom brady them. You know with cross the line. Of course. Does he listen prominent in you just a kind of transfer this to the next. Joe I'm out of office, and when your home, with your kid, you know when you're spouses talking to you when you working on something else. Are you able to then transfer for The battle to calmer, more contented of living. Then on a campaign boston among the campaign to go from mortal combat to play with your son or just working out domestic issues. We wife that strikes me as a very difficult

transition is how my wipe it out or were you at them like for my area that yeah now, because, like you're in the combat, so you're adrenaline up and you're more easy to focus, but that's kind of the track, and so, like I tell myself if you could do it during the campaign offer that to your family and the work you don't now coming up Jim ryan talks about what it's like to be outside of the deep fishbowl damn that comes from not living under a microscope and the kids basketball game that made him realise that is, life had truly change. when you ve gotta health thing going on. You just want to make that thing less of a thing, so you can feel like yourself again, but we. Have to weigh days for a doctor's employment or shift your whole day around to get into the dockers office that health thing

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So the campaign didn't go the way you wanted it to. How did you handle that for real? I know you gave gracious concession speech and you gave quite a rousing farewell speech on the floor of the house, as you ended may be your last term. Who knows that's really up to you and the voters that I want to lie. Don't want to make make that an asset to have a say. So you you gave these great speeches, really great speeches and I'm I'm wondering, like now how much you're willing to reveal about how it went down for you internally to have the race not go your way. ah stages of grief but honestly happen from the time I started realizing it wasn't a work out that night, to huddling up with my campaign, manager, my media guy, Steve, it's a buddy of mine, he was there on election night had campaign with me. You didn't looking campaign?

on tv and whatever, but we were there and like the site like shit, you know, I said the about five times in a row on the parking lot outside my nephew and, and it was just it- it was ass like shit and then you gotta call your opponent, As you know, the guy you been wrestling with but again like from a sports perspective. If you gotta go shake the guy's aunt like the game's over anyone and Steve said to me, he said one thing he said: do your duty to do your duty. He said Is this an honour that even can run in school? Do your duty and that's why I went on gave a speech. And nobody, like my staff, had a speech. I didn't read it. It was just like off the cuff, but it was all like do your duty, I'm grateful. I'm thankful, you know, and we all should be and really now and you you you'll understand this as a dad too like are too or kids were there

I'm a year olds. Air Brady was there and he was just so upset in our lives like dad if you're not anything anymore, you're, not a congressman you're, not as senator I'm like hold on buddy, like I'm your dad still, I'm your only your mom's husband, but I said to myself: I have to show these kids more than anybody else in the world about how to handle the democracies and none of that stuff, but This will be the moment that my kids will see me facing adversity. probably more so than anywhere else cause. He has block your kids from a lot of the stuff that you're dealing with bills or death or whatever he you can keep them from. Couldn't keep him from this, and so I wanted to make sure that I handled myself in a way that if I were data that value and got hit by a bus that these kids would have a lesson that my dad ships were down, he handled himself with some class and that's what really be me keep my stuff together up there Brady was standing right there looking at me, and I could see him

for my eye and so try. told me dad moment really, you know ended up as really proud of how I handled it, but not because it was what our country needed to hear it was because my kids needed to hear and see. While I was proud of you for both honestly, I do want to go back to Brady, because my a year younger than yours but kids of this age, actually products at any age. Have this knack of say. shit to their parents deliberately or not totally devastating yeah. That's the problem, it's a collateral. So, by the time I was talking to my son and I said, made some annoying joke and he looked at me said I don't know how I've survived seven years of you Good now was laughing when he was getting, but it's still very beautiful, but what Brady said words

you're, not anything anymore, you're, not a congressmen, you're, not a senator. Here, you are, you argue sitting with you and I lay right now and you know you're I've staff with you. Thinking about how you gonna vote on the next bill. That stuff has at least for now on a way, and so that's an identity issue. I don't know if it's an identity crisis. How are you doing with that? Really good, honestly and in oh just, cannot continue the joke, like Brady, was teasing me at an a month or two ago he says you're, not even famous any so he says so my eyes, laughin. I we're trapped I remember where we were so we'd leave wherever we were and we go to the airport and you know big campaign national coverage all this autumn at the airport border, where we were somebody comes up. Ah congressman ryan, you ran a great raise. I love you Bob. I and others look a Brady and he looks at me and he started. Sagan has had any

This, while your little by themselves like that and aids, I'm we're together. You know you get gilligan answer to anyone we're together- and someone comes up to me- I just look at that- that's a little bit famous but really good like it was weird because I spent my thirties and forties in congress and elected office, running every two years, serving the public responsive to the public and and you know after the election there is some panic you gonna, make a living costs on january. Thirty, like don't get paid any more and yes, mortgage and demands in so that down was a little bit of the anxiety like I have this back issue that only flares up when, unlike in stressful situation, to my baxter I wish this is just like me worrying about like how I'm gonna feed my family and kids and all that, and it didn't take long for me to pick up some stuff I started to realize like free. So I can't I got back in the like Joseph campbell

was a huge influence on me grown up, and I would periodically every few years go back and watched the power myth with bill. Lawyers like great stuff means more today than it did twenty years ago, and he has He says you gotta let go of the life you had planned in order to have the life that spent for you. Did he write that, for me Did he write that for a twenty year congressman who lost a senate race like, and so it was like? Okay, you can't judge, because how many times do you go through your life? You know like that thing that hurt show. After you thought, was the and ended up beginning and ended up opening you up to all these new things. So now I'm really enjoying like my freedom I went down there to suggest that like a stupid example, but I was in florida the other day- and I was talking at a conference- and there was like four hours between me- speak in the dinner I had planned pack my bathing suit, so you know,

go I'm swimming in the ocean, and I thought to myself if I was a member congress. I probably wouldn't have done this because someone's gonna get a picture me swimming in the ocean and a bathing suit, an arduous post. Serving the congress in our like. He can't take a vacation or anything like that I'm swimming in the ocean was like Tang as recall after we're about their journey work, what he can swim in the ocean when I want when, unlike right by it, you know it's just those little thing, I, like that. You know I picked the kid up from school, go to his practices. You'll laugh at that show. He plays eight year. Old basketball is about three weeks after the election swing. Election fang debates, warren peace power by you- know the high profile and about three weeks later. I'm coaching, his eight euro basketball team and I'm sitting on the bench and only deputy assistant to the assistant to the assistance of the basketball team, but am the banning of said now, my buddy minds, a head coach and for some reason his about

the bad calls which is like bumper cars out. There's like eight year old basket, bahrain, so he gets up and he starts walking on the work and start screaming at the referee and understood I am now dislike. My hands are folded. My legs are cron just watching this whole thing and he's going nuts, he gets a technical. The athletic director of the league There's not a great. This is eight year has outlined actor league blocks over an hour. In her face now and she tells him sit down. He can't stand up and he comes down. He sits next to me and I'm thinkin myself. My life has changed a lot. I gotta call him has got down like dude we're good, but it's like those kind of things are like. This is great. This is great. You said to me before we started rolling, you feel like you've made a jailbreak yeah. Now I joke about it like it's a jailbreak I escaped ah said situation its grind. I mean it's a twenty four hour day, seven days a week that I've did for twenty two years. So there is a certain amount.

Of freedom that you feel, and it doesn't mean to disrespect the job or the institution. It was an honor and I I loved every minute of it, but there's a point of liberation that psychologically you can't get because you're I always you know. I remember I was doing a writing retreat with Barry boyce who, on my second book thing, was my second book and we're in upstate new york at a friend of his house, and we were doing a writing retreat to write the book. My staff calls the house I'm like what cause like Osama bin Laden was killed last night like where'd they go out from this way. What is like, that's the level of light. You can't there's no there's, no, breaking free you, you know your lot of presidents talk about that here and in our gold plated jail, unremitting, economic

in the presidency. For sure our you know insane, but even being a member of congress, I was a local news. Reporter remain on the day that bill Cohen served his last day and Senate and- and he said to me that what he's going to miss is that he's felt like he spent the last whatever eighteen years. I think it was with his finger in a socket and a nose like that. That livia, crackle and energy totally you're connected to the big events of the day. I can see how it would be, exhausting and exhilarating at the same time blow me ask you- and this is the least surprising thing I'm going to ask you which is: do you have thoughts whether you might want to come back in the game at some time or you just like. I can't it's too early the one day, not any time soon, like

maybe one day you know, I may have one more run left in me. If the right race at the right time will have the right impact cause that to me was what it was all about. How do you have impact? How do you make a difference? I always saw the job as trying to serve the public, but lead public with the ideas that you know we've talked about. You know writing a book on mindfulness meditation was not. You know what a lot of people do. Why did I do it, because, in my experience, that is what can solve the problem? You know I like that part of the public policy. Like let's talk about the his ideas in the system. Right now is not really aligned with new ideas. There's not really new ideas coming out of really either political party at this point me talk about like suicide and fur, killing, trauma you talkin about kanab annoyed for ailing all kinds of different things: you're talkin about region,

of agriculture to sequester carbon and grow healthy food. In all of these things, I did not really part of the conversation in the panel. I did morning here, milken on men and boys, like we got a crisis with men and boys, but it's like light organs boys and girls. So why are we can talk about both? Then? Actually helping boys, and men is actually probably really good for girls and women too, like I have a daughter, I want to make sure that those Men are out there that know how to behave earn living and treat her well and all of that, but the new wants that it takes to like. Have these really informed and adult conversation surely solve solve our problems not happening right now, and so I dont miss, part of it? Like bang, in your head against the wall? No people should do deep breathing instead of get on prescription drugs.

Like. Maybe we should start there. Maybe you do need prescription drugs, but maybe you don't have you tried any of this other stuff? That's free! You know more, so I don't miss that. But if the opportunity at some point presented itself and and I or my family back spend ten years me. My wife had been married and she spent that entire time with two kids and three kids and two dogs and three dogs and me in our ran against Nancy Pelosi run for president had a tough reelect and twenty two money and then ran for senate and twenty twenty two and she's like what you think about it, the number like you. I owe you coming up to him talks about what the rough and tumble of politics has taught him about dealing with difficult people. Something can imagine you much trouble with as well

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Let me ask a macro question: we made a brief illusions earlier to managing what I would imagine to be some level of personal antipathy towards your opponent as your running in this last race. Your opponents jade events, it out you senator from Ohio many, if not most of us deal with a certain amount of personal antipathy towards people with whom we disagree in an extremely polarized country right now, if it's not as heightened, probably as it is when you're running for senate against an individual from the other party, but no matter where you sit for most of us, it's hard to deal with the people we disagree with. So what advice do you have given that you ve been through the crucible here on managing that it's hard,

I, for the most part, was able to not be personal, not feel personal animosity towards my opponent mean it creeps in and it's their knees are not gonna lie about it, but for the most part I feel like I kept it in check because it doesn't really get you anywhere now. it didn't prevent me from making the argument like you could make a dispassionate arguing it's about why I'm better or why they're, x, Y or z, or why he's wrong and all of that stuff and you don't need to pull any punches. You know I debated him face to face and called him out. I'd said to his face what I would say in my public speeches. I didn't pull any punches with him and I would tell him I'd like nothing personal, but like you know, X, Y or z, and I think being able to do that. It's a little easier, honestly, like in this environment, because I'd see him two or three debates right now. Some of the people you're talking about you may see him at work every day, that's

more difficult than even run it for the senate, now you're doing cameras in public and have the stones to call people in front of the world and that not easy, either but day to day, it's a little more tricky, it comes in a lot of foul tasting flavors because there may be. Somebody at the office is really difficult to deal with. There may be. Somebody in your family is really difficult to deal with her using on a day to day basis, but it may also just be disconnected names and potentially not even accurate. The avatar pictures that you're dealing with on social media- or it could be somebody you're seeing on tv or could be a political figure who shows up on the news and we're walking around in this era of tribal toxicity with. I think a lot of us are antipathy, Timothy towards these other people. In this borne out in the pole numbers you see

surveys. People are like not cool with their children, marrying somebody from the other party and things like that, and so you know I have a few thoughts on this, but all of this is hard to manage, no matter what level we're talking, yeah, no it's difficult, and I don't know if it's going to get any better in the near term. with an election coming up, but you know again. This is why your podcast work you're doin, like all of this stuff happening, underneath the radar is really important and needs to grow You know your audience needs to double. You know the ardor living community needs to double the you know. John cabins in world needs to double row. She joel like all all of these teachers out there that or do we have to cultivate that and continued try to grow that that's a little more of a long term play than short term fix and hope,

of what I would like to do. A little bit post congress is: how do we can build, build and unite these people in all the the yoga commune the body practice gimme the breath work community, the cell aside and community, like all These different things are all trying to do the same thing, they're trying to heal trauma, which starts with an acknowledgement that there's trauma and, I think, be helpful. I think for people to look at this person, you want to strangle and say maybe some there, may be a need to be a little more compassionate again. What do you have? Control over? You have control than being an asshole or you. control over your response to them in an asshole

control over. Is that you know, and if you don't realize it, then it's just going to keep going and I just think staying off of social media, not watching the news not to be not be inform. You could check a couple of articles out, keep yourself in the loop, but your blood pressure go down take a week to have intermediate detox. I want to say some of this back you because I think you've just given us a really important recipe for how to stay. Sane in in turbulent tribal times, especially as we're essentially in a presidential election right now, and it's only going to get more intense when I'm hearing you say- and this is what I would say is that it is possible. Actually it's really helpful to you to have compassion for people you. the odious compassion does not mean you. Co sign on their bad ideas. Compassion does not you invite them over for dinner. Compassion does I mean you, don't speak out forcefully or volunteer or take firm action. It just means you're, not

burdened and blinded by rage in the midst of that process am I in under present I mean us, the buddha, you know hating someone's like drinking poison and hope it killed the other person. Men. That's just is true. Today, especially in this environment as it ever has been. You can't hate somebody and think that you're gonna be ok with that. You still have anxiety. You still hold that in your body and if you don't realize that you know you're missing out on the opportunity to try to bring about some healing and again we had a heel in Joseph Campbell is just watch and one of his purpose and it was like he sand, like people, think they want to change the world shifting at around, and he says you change the law. By coming alive, one vital person vitalizing and that's how you change the world. You come alive, so you being in this fight with this odious person. That's not gonna, get us anywhere. you being more compassionate adds to the compassion in the world,

being more sane ads. two more sanity in the world and so. You ve, elevated the whole thing by not doing the average act, you do. The radical is drunk habits and used to say, the first retreat I went on. He said this sitting here radical act in the world's go nuts, and so sitting and being quiet. You wanna be a radical, that's being a I loved it. I was like that resonated with me to the point where, fifteen years later, I still remember it. You know we need a bunch of radicals and, what's for them what's going on in the world, but a noise, we need silence bunch of anxiety in fighting you bring com, but again it's not like you can't get in a fight or have an argument. It's not like put your sword down and disk. Give up now use the job

on the campaign trail. All the time is an irish guy said that the old irish saying is this a private fight, or can anyone get into a like? I don't mind that part of it that's kinda like the back and forth. I like that, but without the hate, without the all the other accoutrements. Yes, but another thing you said, while giving us a recipe for being little nodes of sanity. In the midst of this you know howling, sea of tribalism and mistrust and misinformation. What other thing you said, I think, is really helpful, and I just want to hang a lantern on it here is that Action is not on offer like you, you just grab yourself as being new generally able to not fall victim to personal animosity. there are a few times loud and at so we don't need to be monks here. We. We and even months, grew up. We have to be perfectly enlightened beings. Just do our best right do the best you can it's just like. We were teasing about meditators, I'm a terrible, meditator, tranquil yeah, that's going to be one of the

Four hundred and thirty five thought you have in your head when you start meditating, like I'm really bad at this here. Well, then, like you learn a lot that stuff go in its that's, why this practices? Oh foundational to us, moving into a new era of the country is because you have the thoughts and want to choke this guy they're so wrong their bad people. In some instances they are Definitely wrong bride of bad, whose apply at lake now you're engage with me. I know I went on. I wanted it that a retreat with us, Sylvia bourse dean, and it was a loving kindness retreat. This has many many many years ago and she said some that really stuck with me and she said when you're in a fight with somebody you're in a fight like don't be a fight. Why, in a fight duncan You know here when you gonna fight unified in all that that brings

Now I'm now the egos involved now now I got the win the fight. Now I gotta do anything. I can get us a bad things about and it just goes on and on looking to fight, you don't have to make your points. Take your stand. Go relies go, knocking on doors, pick your favor candidate, but do it with a little bit less motion and a little more like calmness and unlike whose persuade it by someone who's losing their fucking mind second like. Actually, some people are right, the other way. I actually think some people are unfortunately in my opinion, the now being a little political myself that I think there are people who are demonstrably losing their mind, who appear to have a lot of followers. Oh yeah yeah. Well, yes, right yeah, I guess you're right, I'm wrong, see that I see about. So I learned something here, but I think when you talk, you know I'm thinkin about like the guy at work. Yes, right in interpersonal,

it's less yeah. I think that you know the guy at work in this, like this you're freaking out man when he freaking out when you want me to like be with you, you're nuts, you know, but if you're like, obviously some of these guys Andrew tate and these other guys who have these huge followings man, I hate to say it then but you're ahead together receiving ahead. Twitter, add replies after the sorry about that. You can believe that about seen you in a little while it's so nice to see you again yeah. It's such a pleasure to really sit here with you. Is there something I should have asked or some pointy would have liked to have had a chance to make that I didn't give you a chance. I don't think so. The only thing I would say is and from my personal experience and others who may be going through something similar knows, conor related to the Well, that I said was about Campbell. It's like you get into a mode You get into a career path that rewarding and all the privileges in our honours, that would come with something like being a member of congress dies level, but you think that's all

you are like you identify for athletes goes the same thing when there are like I'm an athlete and people are children and then it's over, and it's just like you got a lake figure. I had to let this go. You know, bono talks a lot about surrender surrender surrender a lot of these prayers from different religions, surrender shrimp. You have to surrender to that. To open up all of these. the things and you really have to see the impermanence in the world because nothing's going to last forever in like using those as ways to help our kids, because we're at the milken conference and we're talking about all of these different things and to talk about a I, unlike all of these changes that are coming that are almost out of our control, so really tat be teaching. This idea of the only thing that's permanent isn't minutes and in trying to model that somewhat in you did it with your career, ray you, let that go. You had prestige,

You had a title. You were on tv or famous you now, not so famous anymore, but we're and envy you were able to gracefully like build this whole other thing right and you could look backing like that was just like a stepping stone to like all this great work that you're doing now, and I think it there's an element of grace to that. We need as the changes are coming and you see how people have when they don't handle change very well. It gets ugly and again it's not that you don't fight for and try to for the kind of change want, but it's gotta be just grace just a little better little better grace in the world. I think The one thing that I would like to encourage people as there going through some of these tough times that seem tough. This hope, if you keep at it with

that attitude and new work hard. You get your break and then you look back on that moment of so much axed and in electing that was the pivot to the next life. Well, Thank you. My you got my vote of thanks. Thanks are due to draw some scrape taxing into TIM thanks to you for listening a genuinely appreciate you listening do me a solid gold leave a rating or review that actually helps us with the various algorithm run all of our lives and finally, I want to thank most sincerely the people who worked incredibly hard on the shelf. Ten percent happier is produced. Gabriel sacrament justine davy Lauren Psmith and terror? Anderson DJ cashmeres, our senior producer mercer schneider men is our senior editor and human rights

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