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doubt linked and jobs linked in jobs, helps find the right people for your team faster and for free post, your job for free at link. Ign dot com, slash, acquire that's, linkedin, dot, com, slash acquire to post your job for free terms and conditions, apply from a b. This is the ten percent happier podcast calm down harris I. Hello today. Show. We ve got some strategies for getting over yourself. Joseph Goldstein is a fan favorite on this. There is also a personal favorite of mine, given that he's been my meditation teacher for more than a decade every year Joseph. Does it three month retreat by himself at his home. Massachusetts this year he emerged with a bunch of thoughts on what are called the three prolific rating tendencies or three proposed chose to use the ancient polly term

These are three ways in which we perpetuate a sense of self, not a healthy sense of self, but an unhealthy sense of self like the beatles sang about in that song. I me mine, as Joseph has explained. To me and many others before you can think about the process of going deeper in meditation as a process of lightening up or getting less self centered you're about to get a master ass in doing just that, for the uninitiated. Joseph is one of the co founders of the insight meditation society in bury massachusetts. He, working at that time alongside to other meditation titans share in salzburg and jack cornfield, since I m s was founded, thousands of people from around the world have come through to learn about my fulness from many many leaders in the field. I in fact just got back from a little retreat there myself Joseph, has been a teacher there since the

The place was founded in the nineteen seventies and he continues to be the resident guiding teacher he's also a founding teacher of our committee. and in meditation app, he created our flagship courses, teaching the basics of meditation, as well as some advanced courses. Compassion and stress. So if you want to learn directly from Joseph and maybe even put into practice some of these, he shares in this very interview you can download the ten percent happier app today, wherever you get your apps. Kay. Here we go now with Joseph costing hello Joseph I then begs for coming back on the show I haven't there. Equally, nothing I've done in the last whenever twelve months as you ve, been on, the show has efficiently, alienated outta that you ve got the enemy for life. Now it's a pleasure to be here then So I had the pleasure of watching some talks that you had gone Recently, you, where you were talking about.

What are known as the three proliferating factors? I think I have that right. am I using the terminology correctly proliferating tendencies, what do you mean by that and then what are they? Ok, so, first, just out of general interest. I just want to mention the polly word for that proliferating tendency. is the language of the ancient buddhist texts, because it's it's one of those terms that comes up frequently even in our modern discourse, and the teachings? So just to familiarize. You know, listeners to that term, it's poncho and I liked the pilot, because it sort of is on a appear sort of sounds like what are the his pipe. I'm sure it's just the mind proliferating any elaborating from Bear elements of our experience from the building blocks of our experience. We then,

build hold worlds and then get enmeshed in one way or another, in those words and so three main tendencies which led us in that direction, and it's very helpful to become aware of them to distinguish between them. and to learn how to free ourselves from them. If Completely at least to have more wisdom in relief. And then when we see them arising through its basically what poncho is proliferating tendencies of mind, just it expands in quite a powerful way, just the complexity of our lives, particularly with regard to her sufferings created and how we can become a little more free

when I use the word historically, I must be using the sanskrit version because I have often said per puncher. It sounds like that difference between poland, since group, which are very close. I love that for a punch, our puncher, whatever you want to pronounce it or spell it, and I've heard a translated as the imperialistic tendency of my and in the end that you you, you take out data point from the present moment, like you, stub your toe and you colonise the few you're with ms hautala, I, why am I always? The guy was doves neto. You know this is gonna hurt forever and what you are talking about here, these three sort of run away too aims of propaganda that are really three of the main contributors to how we suffer as humans yeah. I, like your description of them ringing.

Stopping imperialists in our own minds that occurred those tender. So, let's go through that tendencies. Yeah should we take them one at a time. The first one is craving. Maybe before we do that, just set the larger framework behind it. All it's expressed in one very succinct teaching of the buddhas which he actually gave to his son rahul. So it's it has a kind of touching aspect to it that the buddhist leading his own son on this path of liberation and there's a whole story behind it, where the buddha is. Telling him everything should be seeing with perfect wisdom. This is not mine, I am not. This is not myself.

so not mine, not I not myself. Everything should be seen in that light and saw the papa The three proliferating tendencies are connected to the sense of mine or belong to me or to I am I am- this or that or to the view of self, so that those that's the underlying framework for understanding that proliferating tendencies, not mine, not I'm not myself, something mine is connected to craving taking things too belong to me so a million examples of this. We do it all. The time saw this give one example from a meditative practice. I might begin to see the free,

aspect of it. You know we doing walking meditation, for example, and we're being pretty mindful of the movement and the touch it would be quite common to have, One might almost say a subliminal or very fast, the overlay lay, thanks of leg we walkin leg offered. So even if we're feeling the sensations of the movement in the touch very commonly very quick, it overlay would be that sense of leg foot but actually we don't feel the fact we don't feel like there's, no sensation called leg. The with we're feeling hardness. When we touch me round- or maybe you know movement so leg- is the concept.

Once we already have that concept, leg v, harry commonly we would say It is my leg so right there where. Getting involved in this, belongs to me This is mine and it's mine, we have kinds of wanting saw cravings about it. I want whatever's mine to be this way or that way or not to change all kinds of things. Come out of that believe that things belong to So. This is a very simple example just walking, but just imagine how many times this place out in one's life. What's wrong with claiming my own leg is mine, what's wrong with it? Is that it's not

he's living at the pollution once again the so. For example, if we really deeply embedded in that both the view and sense The being mine, then a couple of things. One is. We are going to suffer when things happen to it, that we don't want it to happen Let's leave the example of the labor: we just take the whole body taking the body to be mine. Belonging to me well more attached to that view,

how do we feel as the body ages as it gets sick as it dies, that's going to create a lot of suffering, whereas if we see the body and adjust the physical elements which make up the body as being just an aspect of nature, its non personal, it's just these physical elements in china, certain configuration fulfilling their functions subject to the laws of impermanence and change. When we see it in that way, we will not claiming to be my hand, then as it goes through the inevitable changes. This is not like. It happens to some people and not the others and all of our bodies. go through this process, then we really it is where, in harmony with nature, rather than creating a punch,

creating a mental proliferation which adds to the basic experience of what's happening. This idea this is mine and you and say that when that strong, then it leads to a lot of craving of how Would like the body to be, and just how much of our society is built on advertising things that appeal to our sense of what we would like our bodies to be like, because we take it to be me, we take them to be self. We take it to be mine, so it has What have consequences you know as we play out our lives. So craving is one of these pontius lash pro poncho, let's just say, per punch: let's use the Paul okay, let's just do what joseph says

it's a craving, there's no craving that! So that's that's craving! The next is conceit So this is really interesting. First, it's to understand that in the buddhist terminology, conceit means something else. Different, then I usual understanding what I mean. An english beginning. It's generally, we use that word to mean a very inflated sense of oneself. Some one is conceited. The pali word for conceit is mana m, a n a so in this buddhist usage of that

word how it's been translated in English has concede is much broader most. Basically, it refers to this deeply deeply felt sense of I am it's fifty I am this, which manifest in a few different ways it can manifest. I am in comparison to other p So I'm better, then I'm worse than an equal to just some. Comparing function is all considered seat, because, even when it's in a negative way no, I'm not as good as that person that still involving around that. I am sense, so that's one way the conceit manifest in comparing and it would be interesting to notice,

Not only the obvious times when that's happening, you know where it really very, very clear in our minds, but my senses that it has a lot often under the radar, and it might be interesting to notice when we interacting with people particular People may be that we're I don't know that well or perhaps a meeting for the first time just to see if there's any underclass, and in that meeting of comparing. Maybe comparing personnel eddie you're, comparing intelligence are comparing looks of what ever, you can kind of going on in the background that I think

is often unnoticed, but still exerting its influence on our minds. So that's one aspect of conceit. Does this comparing and the other aspect is the I am over it I'm. So when we are thinking of how I was in the past. Or how I am in the future in the present how I will be in the future, so that that also is an expression of conceit. So it's pretty pervasive and it's a contraction as soon as we become identified with that proliferation. In the mind the I am it, it's not a pleasant stay, the same quality of happiness. It just feels like this contraction of our being emptied out. There are many people

listening to the show who you are familiar with basic buddhist concepts, who will completely understand what you're talking about, but there may be others who are so new to this and are thinking it is this guy talking about what mean I am in across and pain. Of course, I am. I look in the mirror and I see me so wise that a problem so first in order to come of come to some full understanding of all this. I think it's helpful to you talk about the basic building blocks of our experience, because then the proliferate nation will become more apparent. So what are the basic building blocks of how we experience ourselves in the world

Well, it's quite a measuring because it comes down to some very simple things and the buddha talked about this and he gave one discourse which he called the all, so he described the all, which is everything in six phrases So decides pretty amazing, ok! So what is the or what is the all. the eye, invisible objects, the ear and sound the nose and spell the tongue and taste the body in sensations And the mind and mind objects, thoughts, emotions images, tat are justly six things sight, sound smell, taste touch an object of mind,

and the buddha challenge people. Does anybody experienced anything outside of these six things. I find this quite amazing because very often think our lives is so complicated and other such confusion. but really all its ever happening is one of these six things happen so In some way. I see it is our lives everybody's lives. It's like a six peace chamber orchestra. That's playing the music of our lives. so what makes the music. Either harmonious and beautiful or discordant are not the first five know the sight, sound smell, taste,

What touch there's no problem in any of them. Some pleasant some are unpleasant, but that's all fine. Complexity in the confusion and the suffering comes in our mental response to these six things how we relating to them buddha pointed out those way of relating that cause suffering and those ways of relating to these six very simple things in ways that create peace, create happiness for us

So the point in talking about, I am the conceit. I am this an important doorway into freeing ourselves from a lot of suffering side. I just want to read something grasping and cherishing that which does not exist. Is the centre of all our suffer, so we have created the sense of self, which is the last of the three per of the view of self. We ve created this view of self and made it into something substance.

Essential in our view, and then we cherish it or we hold onto it, and we do all kinds of things but, as it says, we're grasping at cherishing that which does not exist, because all that really exists are those six things of sights smells taste, sensation if in mind objects, are we getting clear or more confused? Let me just ask a question: let me just channeled. They know they did they generally felt. Yet the me of your or just to do a service Some listeners who may have non nude newer to this yes, okay, so of its six peace chamber, orchestra and my sense of myself is this- is a beautiful phrase. From my friend and colleague, the buddhist teacher.

michaelson if my sense of self is born in that blur of these six aspects of them all. and to claim any of it of as mine is as an to quote another buddhist teacher who I first heard of three you have to claim any of it is mine, is misappropriation of public property and causes suffering. Where does that leave me? Because I still you know you need to function in the war old. As me. Yes, ok, I think before addressing that specifically and You may have to remind me again of the question I have to finish this little digression: I'm getting older, then, I think I just like to spend a minute or two talking about the view of self or what self means.

fix everything we ve been talking about. really rests on that understanding or misunderstanding For example I like to give in terms explaining what non self means and is this Kind of understanding of non self is absolutely central to the buddhist teaching of liberation of freedom. You know of greater happiness, so it's a really semi central essential point. to begin to explore it's not that easy to understand because its counter intuitive, you know, just as you said when you mean there's no, of course not here I am, and I need that to navigate in the world, so example that I'd like to give special in these last couple of years is that of a river

so we all know what a river is in its sitting of this body of flowing water and. Lots of rivers, and we give the rivers different names Is there anything that is a river separate from different than or indeed pay, didn't of the flowing water now river is sick. a designation river is a designation for that process. Water flowing in a particular channel. Some river is not a thing in itself. It's just a word. We used to designate that phenomena. Self is just like river, health is a designation for this,

changing process of me body elements? Self is a designation for the all which is in constant change, constant flow, just like the water that we call a river. In understanding non self. It doesnt mean that something is there that the suddenly disappear from those people who have that bad. feeling. Oh my god, if I really understand no self, what's gonna happen, all disappear in a puff of smoke. Has some honest, of course it's not bad at all, it's him understand thing that the word self does not refer to anything substantial in and of itself. It's just a designation for the flow of changing elements

Ok, so once we understand that, then. The I am. No one in a river, do you know it Eddie is another what is flowing down stream and then came a hit some obstacle and part of the water flows back. I can go around and around and around. So. If one is canoeing or rafting or something. Accordingly in eddie? just go around and around until something gets you out and you you back in the stream, so the I am the I am is the concede, its liking, eddie in the stream in the flow of our experience, We're going along going along and then the minds of just the flow of that or the mixing

Fourthly, the flow of the river or the sixties chamber August is playing the music going along fine, but then we get caught up in some mental fabrication, get caught either in that comparing mind or lost impasse lost in future, all revolving around something that isn't there revolving around this man The creation of I am or self which, as I just said, is really just a designation for the flow ok. So then, I do remember your question Ok, so if we're not caught in win accordingly, puncher no of mine. I am or view of self. How do we actually navigate Being this river of change

a flower flow. How do we know? get in the way that skilful and, of course, all, but his teachings are really about. The package is bring us ways of living in this flow Of impermanence of constant change and movement. but in a way that brings about harmony where the things about peace, with just another way of saying: how can you live in harmony with the nature of things with nature and so here's where another aspect of the teachings comes in which is really important. I mean this is this is fundamental that our actions, whether it's illegal actions, you our body earth in speech,

Actions of our mind that all our actions have consequences, so they're not happening in isolation. Innovation could save it. There are ripple effects from everything we do and the buddha just pointed out what kinds of actions bring about suffering to ourselves and others. what kinds of actions bring about peace for ourselves in others. So once we learn that, then that's the blueprint for the template. For living in the world, not needing the sense of I am ass. The solidification or contraction. In order to live effectively and happily.

and, in fact the freer. We are from that contraction. The happier we will be, how can I be held responsible for the consequences of my action? If I don't exist, yeah, you think you're going to stump yeah right now. We could get into a little a whole. Little thing again in the very way you asked the question- forgive me for saying this, but reflects the delusion of the question because how can I take responsibility for my actions if I don't exist so in the very first

part of the question. You're already positing the I that really didn't exist. You wouldn't be positing it in the first place, but that, having been said, I just had to decide to play with you a little. But it's much more a question. The consequences of one's actions. It's that simply a conventional way of saying that the floor all of our lives the unfolding of our lives, the flaw it's happening lawfully, and so the prey send, will condition in one way or another. What happens in the future?

sense of eyes not at all necessary to understand that actions have consequences. If this, the understanding that a certain action- and this is using the buddhist teachings, for example, if it's based in greed or it's based in hatred that the result of that action is going to be some kind of suffering. down the road either immediately, no, which we or perhaps but down the road, it will be a seed for future suffering. for that on this. No, I know sense of self needed to understand that cause and effect relationship, and so, if there is the desire for

Greater peace or happiness, rather than the desire for suffering, we should pay attention to the causes behind those different results, and none of that has to do with an eye or herself the civil law of nature, planting and apple seed you're, not gonna, get a pear tree. So what kind of seeds are replanting what kinds of seeds are being planted? We don't need the eye in there at all and we're gonna get to that. The use of the passive voice, because you ve got a very what I found a very powerful practice. to run that just staying on this question of not self one framing that, help me, I think understand this begin to understand this.

Is talking about things on a relative level. This is these are terms of art here, relative level and an ultimate level Can you explain those terms of art and anything I'm on something here in terms of despair, a way that we can kind of grapple with that given that we are more jobs? run deal that now and then spread, but never big the german. So this understanding of in sun schools of buddhism, it's called the two levels of truth, relative, Furthermore, ultimate truth. Another word that I like to use instead of relative is just conventional, conventional truth and we could more, ultimately, So on the conventional level. We use the term. cell phone, I knew and businesses.

very ordinary way of understanding things and for the purpose of communication. That's totally approach, It is also a matter of suggesting that, as we begin to explore for ourselves- and maybe even have some experience of what non self means, we don't give up conventional language, thereby very awkward to say this process of the mental physical elements, is feeling hunger I'm hungry, so it's ones that is totally fine and appropriate to use conventional language. The problem is that for most of us most of the time. We are seduced by that language into believing

that that is the more ultimate reality. Language is really important in terms of condition it how we experienced things I'm it's it's very, very common, as I just said too, to be seduced by the conventional lange which of I mine interval, leaving that that has some substantial reality, as opposed to being just a convenience of communication. Let me give you an example of how understanding the proponents of conceit of understanding that and how its working in recognising it can free the mind from a lot of unnecessary suffering. So there's just happened to be on a recently.

great, but very fresh in my mind, so I was on a cell retreat at home and doing fair man. Sitting in walking but not super intensively I would begin quite a lot, but at other times I would be doing little reading or perhaps some writing projects. But in one afternoon I just found myself frittering away some time. I didn't know what I was doing now, but I wasn't doing anything very mindfully or constructively and I recognize this. I began to get down and myself a little bit now a little self judgment, came in here on retreat and is buddhist, meditation teacher

What are you doing just frittering away this time? I was definitely feeling some kind of suffering involved in that self judgment you know, and for that short period of time, not feeling great about myself and for myself coatings, but I'm familiar enough with all his teachings that at a certain point for me it. Time. It didn't hurt bad law, you know maybe five attainment some wallowing in there in the self judgment, but then, as often happens, when I'm suffering a lot. It peaks my interest, the ida what's going on here You know why is my mind in this place of suffering and I realized that it was just a situation of I aiming I'm so bad because

wasted. All this time, I as soon as recognized the mindset of concede that particular the fireman Of mind, rather than focusing on the story of you now spent all his time really waste which created that bad feeling. As soon as I reckon I thought this is just conceited- work, the sum to stop what aiming immediately in the recognition that the whole mindset just let go. I was back in the present moment. because I was recognising the basic element that was causing the suffering. It wasn't the fact of frederick,

That was just what it was when it was obviously wasn't some great saying, but still it was enough to create that feeling it myself, but it soon settled go of the self story, the I am story through, recognising that this is just conceit working. This is just this particular punch up the whole thing released. Incivism very Practical application of this everything we're talking about is not just about buddhist theory or buddhist philosophy, it's really about understanding. Suffering is created in our lives and how we can be free very precise level. In turn

of understanding how our minds is working, at least as nicely to these practices that you ve laid out that can help us get little tastes of third the freedom you're talking about. I believe you ve got three practices which, from what I've heard in your recent public utterances on this subject, three practices that help us deal with the three proliferating factors of craving cons. and wrong view, and the first of these practices, you already kind a reference which is the he's kind of using our language to kind of reversed. engineer and insight into our molecules in

The linguistic change you're suggesting is the passive voice. Can you talk about that? Yeah, just a little sidebar here I just finished listening to a really interesting book called the code. Breaker. By world isaacson and was all about fairly. Recent discoveries of was called crisper, which is basically tool for gene editing the editing dna, which has tremendous implications for perhaps cure doing or preventing disease, and yet but to getting on with just as you said on that sell you le level, nine added something that creates problems. is now happening in biology. So I like this is. Kind of gene it we get away getting in there to see? Ok, what's in it,

any of our understanding and can- the edit out those genes that create suffering. So, one way of editing one little practice we can do, which could give a sense of that is an application of a linguistic framework of how we are describing the world to ourselves in language now most Lee? We use language in the active voice. Does the subjects no and object. I'm walking to town eating some just a very simple basic grammatical, construction of active voice, a subject performing an action, the passive voice

does something very interesting, and that is the passive voice takes the subject out of it. So, just as an example in the active voice, we might say I'm hearing a sound. I am right there right there with built in the I am this week. built in the sense of self. Just in our language, ordinary, conventional language to begin to play in the passive voice. We would say a sound being hurt or a sound is being known, and so the passive voice takes the subject I out of the equation, and I found this to be I an extremely valuable frame for meditation for a whole variety of reasons. One is

lets us more in alignment with the actual state of affairs that we not positing a designation in a conventional designation, to be an essential element of the experience which, what we usually doing just enough. What Mary use of language some way in the past. voice in framing a meditative expired, and then all of our experience. Things are being known, it's a way of really touching into the effortless nature of meditation. If there's an aim, that is trying to do something. So then there's an effort being involved for that. I

I am especially at the beginning of people's factors, but even later on as well, that effort in quality which is different than arousing energy, that that's that's a different thing. I'm talking about a in unskilful effort being or forcing expecting all of rooted in the eye as soon as we drop into the past. The voice of things being known. We can merely settled back. We ve taken the eye out of it. And new experiences are arising by themselves in each moment. there's no one there doing anything I there, the all the other, those six things

or just a rising one after another sight, sound smell and so a very simple meditative exercise, which I think would give people a a real, immediate sense of what this means is just to spend five minutes. Ten minutes, not a long time just short period of time. either in sitting or in going for a walk. This can be done it in any time holding the question just holding the frame of the question moment after a moment, what's being none settling back then just recognising what is being known moment if the moment a site, a sand, the sensation, the thought, sound sensation thought sound.

So it's all happening by itself. It's all just flowing along by itself and being known free of set that intention to pay attention in this way be set, that frame what's being known and then settled back and see how effort, as it is, and it also really highlights the impermanent nature, because, when, with back in that way and just aware of what's being known moment at the moment, without an attempt control it in any way or even to direct it, it's immediately obvious how things are just appearing in disappearing moment. At the moment. I don't know how much weight this will carry, but just to give it some endorsement here, but I struggled so much in the early stages of my practice and to this day with

Over everything and did in time, in the city and duration of those struggles has been really reduced by using the passive voice. What is being known just asking myself that question and watch what happens, and it's not, and I am trying so hard to All over my breath, like a rabbit dog, it's more like feeling the breath it and did you dead, though the breath is being for health and it nothing for me to do it's already happening and, yes, maybe distraction comes up, but I see and then go back to things being known on. Their own is incredibly helpful, and I know of a couple of other techniques to help us with the power puncher factors, and I want to take a quick break when we come back. We'll talk about those much more of my conversation with Joseph gould and right after this hi I'm lindsey, graham the host of wonders his podcast american scandal. We bring to

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before we go on something occurred to me in the break that I thought might be helpful to mention when people are both first beginning the practice, but also sometimes well into the practice. It can sometimes feel a little discouraged witness we watch our minds to see, Nowhere in the buddhist terminology are called the the or Sir Canada's unskilful patterns of mine we're suffer young one way or another for ourselves or others, and I remember when I first began practice in india. And I was seeing my mind. You know with greater clarity that I had seen before. I started mended tasting and I saw all these unskillful patterns. You know of different manifestations of desire or wanting agreed aversion, annoyance or whatever, whatever it may be,

I remember nothing to my teacher and energy have expressed it this way by basically the sensors, I'm such a terrible parson up Look at all these terrible things that are hissing in my mind, and so it can lead to a lot of self judge. Toward discouragement? He had the fact it's. Why do I want to sit in seawater stuff? Well, something really interesting happens and it could happen either quicker or slower, depending on how quickly one understands this boeing get to a place in the practice. We were actually delighted to see all this stuff, because we grab at sea. It than not see it. So, for example, now when I see a manifestation of conceit I am in one way or another:

the life, it's like, I see you, I caught you you're not going to seduce me anymore, so as to actually uplifting encouraging and joyful to be seeing the, the workings of our mind, with clarity and with mindfulness. I just wanted to put out to the listeners even though they may be seeing things which occur, a problematic in one way or another, but the very seeing of them is enlightening It's a way that we get a lighter and lighter and lighter pics We see them. We are not so caught by them. If we don't see them Then they just run riot and alive. I've heard you mentioned this before and I seen it play out in my own mind, and I really agree

just got me thinking again did just to get back to these challenging questions. I was asking you before about the idea The illusion of the self or the not self doctrine in buddhism that Are there no aspects of this. That are, you it's in other words, what, if you catch the thought of I Joseph I'm gonna reach out to a friend who suffering I Joseph I'm going to write a book there might help a lot of people. I Joseph I'm gonna write a dharma talk that might teach people important concepts that they get used to it their own life. Is there no manner that is good mana? This goes back to that someday. We were talking about earlier. Using that language can Essentially this completely fine that that's how we communicate- and you know I could Very well

say I have said many times. I have this project Emily excited about. I really want to get involved in it all. That's fine! we need to use that kind of language just for ease of communication, because this is how things are conventionally understood. No problem at all. We do that. It's just I understand that, even as we using that language We don't want to be quite biota, seduced in the belief or in our minds. Construct stand shall reality to what is in itself just a designation for peace the process, so the designation is helpful when we use it. But what happens? Is we take the word. We take the concept, the desert.

To be the reality itself, instead of saying I have, this is just shorthand way of saying idea arose in the mind, entered he came to act, that is, we could. We could describe the same thing without the use of that language, but it's just very awkward cell, use of the language is fine. The I am language, but we want on. It then that it's just conventional. It doesn't really referred to anything in and of itself, but mostly people don't make that second step mostly will lost in the world of concept. The convention and we haven't really understood the building blocks of experience

So it be, for example, in science like just as we look at the physical world, take any simple physical objects like a glass anything now so conventionally? We think a glass exists and for a lot of practical purposes, there's no problem with that. We use a glass, but if so, it has got caught by that they would never have been motivated to look ok. Well, what is it? They were actually calling glass. right and developing the tools to investigate that question? What is it What we mean by these designations and in a whole new worlds. Open up. Imagine the excitement of the first person to look through a microscope and then nowadays, of course, it's even incredibly more sophisticated,

The mask whole new dimensions of reality, open up when we not imprisoned by our attachment to the country Glass, even though, on a conventional level into useful designation, sir, it's the same thing you know, so we use it but we don't want to be limited by that concept, and this is really what the buddhist teaching is all about. It's, ok, what's What's underneath it or one of the basic elements of experience and how do they function.

Use the word elements right: there were in the middle of going through three little pieces of joseph homework that we can all do to get under the hood here to go beyond these kind of limits that are pretty deep in her wiring in our dna. These poncho factors and said there's one of the practices is built around a buddhist concept of the elements tell us about that. Ok, sir, over each of these topics could be our long term route trader abbreviated. All. first just need a little explanation of of the buddhist frame. For understanding the elements, because, when we think of physical elements, I think of our chemistry class, the periodic table of the different elements- the buddha in that time-

whether he actually knew all about that, and because I don't know, but in those times they used a very simple. Framework for describing the elements such as the different designation for physical elements and it was a failure in ancient times to think of the elements in terms of earth, air firewater, that's how they would describe the elements. Now. Obviously, there are certain limitations in that in terms of the understanding of chemistry, but they are very practical in terms of having a simple

designation for how we experience different physical phenomena, so, for example, the earth element is a designation for just the experience, the sensation of hardness, hardness or softness. So that's an immediate felt experience which we all have so the buddha just designated that as that's the earth element or movement, would be the air element or warmth or coolness.

With the the fire element. So that's what the terms birthday of firewood refer to right and they're helpful, because it's just a very simple shorthand for describing our physical experience, free of potential of desire and craving and conceit and wrong view. So this is the way that I was playing with it on retreat and it was really quite amazing to me. again it points to the power of language, whether it's spoken language or the language in our own minds. You know, as we are describing or interpreting to ourselves what we are experience, the words we use are going to condition how we experience it so again this,

something that normally we're not paying attention to rethink how you were experience in the truth of what are the hair Not realizing that but I have a language refusing to describe it is affecting our experiencing it. Okay, so, for all of that is background, I was just outside just doing walking meditation and again this was not in a very slow pace, was just kind of a normal pace of walking, but it could be done. It speed and, as I said before, when I was skyping me my in belonging to me. Walking. Even though I was everything I fine. I was feeling the sensations of the movement in touch. I was noticing that I would say almost subliminal sense of I'm walking

Or my leg, it wasn't an explicit statement in my mind, but I could feel A trains loosened veneer on the experience hardly noticeable, but having just read this one particular discourse of the buddha to his son were ruler in which he was describing miss barry practice as a way of counteract, the poncher of Aimee mine. He said practice. Seeing the physical experience in terms of the elements of her, so I just read bad so in the walking I just started every time. I would move yom of black. I just

it lightly. Ogier element, no one. I touched the ground earth element just that. That's all I just change the language, but connecting those words to the expense so wasn't just kind of words going through my mind, unrelated to the walking it's like really connecting the words to the experience It was amazing what happened just such a simple thing. This simple change of language moving element, kurth element. It became so clear. That the earth element or the air element. didn't belonged to me that the book longing to me like my leg or my foot conflict

we fell away was just earth. There was just a couple of minutes doesn't belong to anybody and the whole sense of I am fell away. Even though we might say you know, I'm walking, I'm walking Would we ever say I the airlines and now the change of language removed that veneer I me mine and he dropped the whole experience into simply being the elements being now. That's all those the I disappeared, the I m disappeared, the mine disappeared and even if it's just

for a few moments at a time right. So I suggest you have people who are interested. They might try this and play with it. It doesn't have to be a big project, can be take five minutes or ten minutes of walking and just play with us and see if any of what I have just said, resonates with your own experience. But for me it was so striking and so immediate to see how the application of the understanding of the elements was. The antidote to I mean mine. This might be just a good chance to give the background story to the buddhist teaching to his son, in which he described exactly what I just said to use the elements

So they were gone for arms ran into a village, he now to go, collect food and so the boat I was walking ahead and rebel at his son was walking behind him, and revenue is looking at the beautiful form of the buddha hours said to embody physical perfection as well as, infection of heart and mind and reveal lowest kind, taking fried in the. That he had a resemblance to the buddha- you know he was his son and, of course, the buddha through his power of my new, what within motherless pipe it. So he stopped

He turned around a ruler and that's when he gave this teaching. Everything should be seeing with perfect wisdom. This is not mine. This is not I. This is not myself, you know, so all the pride that rahul was taking in his physical form. My body looks like this and is in this beautiful right, Well, the buddhist saying see everything with perfect with it, not mine, not I not myself, and then he went on to explain one way of accomplishing that is through this meditation on the elements because, as I just said, when we that the I mine just falls away, we're back just in the basic six elements of experience that it's just those six things being known moment after moment search. Medicines liberating in freeing,

even if we are not living in had space all the time. I think it's very powerful. Even if we have brief moments of it because it like planting the sea, in our ongoing flung stream of a deeper understanding. Those seeds are really important, big saying we're not completely captured. By the world of conventional and concept, no kind of poking holes in that and the powerful that really begins the process of labour, in the time that remains here. Let me proud you to describe the third exercise which, if I were call has to do with seeing how quickly everything that comes up in our mind passes away. We got through different stages in practice

and even at any stage, you know that we may be an of course one of the fundamental insights These are things arise and pass away and things come into being and vanish. So this is not difficult to understand or to say I can, a good part of the time. Our minds are focused on what's arising, rising each new arising experience catches, our attention arising arising, rising, but we could as well focused on the disappearing side of things because of course they doing both. But I think our minds have been no condition in general to always be

it by the newly arising at it, but something very different happens when we start to focus on the disappearing aspect. Because, when we're just focused on the arising aspect, that's very easy for us to get attached to to have aversion to to claim as being self. We, we do all kinds of things in me listen ship to seeing a new object arise, something completely different happens when we're focusing on the disappearing So how to do that in a way, that's really vivid how can one day I was just out for a walk with mary work? Being

As mindful as I could be ass, you know, but I wasn't it wasn't like slow meditative workers, just an ordinary walk And the thought came to my mind, but what happened to the step of five minutes ago? It's good. That means it's completely gone really glad because there was nothing of it left and then he said well what about one minute ago, god? What about thirty seconds ago gone? What about one second ago it's got, and so I just put my mind up. To the very lip of the flow of like what over waterfall gun. I'm gonna go. So I

mind right to that point of things is disappearing, disappearing, disappeared disappearing, and it was quite amazing, it's like being in that experience of things disappearing, it's impossible to hold on. The thing is gone by the time we could even hold onto it, and so the mind has let go of any kind of grants. Spaying or attachment, or even wanted things are just continually disappearing, and so we get into a kind of free flow, just a free flow of experience without getting caught up in any of the eddies that I mentioned, you know of getting caught in some kind of attachment, a reaction to the present moment, experience and circling around that bill.

up all the poncho about it now has just gone gone gun and the de felt experience of that He's so liberating and. interestingly enough- and this I dont- really quite understand yet. it somehow being in that space act

evaded. What in the buddhist terminology is called the heart center know this they're different energy centers in the body you know, and each one has it's own kind of manifestation, so I think we will have a just an intuitive sense of what the heart center means. You know the the felt sense of an open heart. Interestingly enough, that's what was activated when I was just in that place of the continual disappearing falling away falling away, with its consequent lack of any clinging to anything. I think, all of that contributed to that feeling of the heart space of it. There is a very free space, even though in just hearing the words it might feel an outbreak of people here, just off

falling away, falling away, fallen, who I know, there's no business stability. It might feel a little frightful. That was not the experience of it at that time. There's one image that might be helpful. in understanding how we experience. this greater awareness of things disappear, falling away, because we, Have different relationships to that? No different felt experiences of that at different times. Somebody once told me of this example: In its, if somebody free falling out of her plain so young people do this camera for sport, this is not in the sports situation. So just imagine somebody falling. the plane one way or another, the circumstances

not really germane to the example, and then perhaps is the first experience of exhilaration just the exhilaration of freefall. So this is very, much like the first experience of things arising and passing quickly. Now, as we continuing our meditation factors and an deepens at a certain point. The mind really goes from emphasising the content of what are arising in others. Is that says, there's this to the process, meaning the process of change. And so, instead of the emphasis being on the what it really becomes an emphasis on the how it's happening. Things arising

passing arising in passing and that perception get very refined. So we see this process of change very quickly so that the sense of exhilaration. Then go back to the image of the freefall negative person realises they don't have a parachute therein this freefall and there's no parachute and then they get really frightened out, there fear theory, terror arises and therefore, following fraid of the head and said Equivalent of that in the meditative process would be after the exhilaration of seeing things arise and pass so quickly, and then the mind begins to focus on just the disappearing. The rapid disappearance of everything, seven, if the felt sense of there's just no secure, any place, there's nothing to hold onto

so back and be a challenge, in time in meditation. You know I'm going through that feeling of it, but then genuine back to the example of the fee, for the first is. The exhilaration, then, is the fear, but then, at a certain point,. Person realises there's no ground when they relax into an echo nimitti that simply enjoying the whole experience of fall of change. A flower said this is quite similar to what happens in meditation because after that, Can a disturbing period of time when we Our highlighting the fact that the insecurity of there's nothing to hold onto other continual disappearance at a certain point, we realise is no ground, which is

another way of saying or analogous to the understanding of selfishness. This is just a natural process going on and we fall into a place of tremendous we need it and the echoing the remedy is so proud and, and it's a very exquisite kind of happiness that comes. We really come to a place of peace and at that point in practice it said even for those people who are still the path, but that place of equanimity is said to resemble the mind of a fully enlightened being, it's just being met,

holding onto anything in his resting in the piece of that the piece of non clinging, the piece of non grasping at that which is continually changing, throwing the exercise that I mentioned this going for a walk and maybe for a short period of time to staying at that disappearing, age of things, Seeing things continually fall away, I think, is very unlikely that you'll be exceeded and seeing the unsettling aspect of seeing this process of change. My Is that you'll really begin to understand the liberating aspect of it. This has been great. But I really appreciate as in, and I really love the three homework assignment gazeta things all of us can do so. Thank you Joseph really appreciate it. You're very welcome, as you know, I love talking about this stuff. It see you next

and then yeah as associate next time, and I like that, because that implies there will be a next time. I didn't do anything too bad this time. No, no! This is delightful thanks again to Joseph always love talking to him, as you can tell. I very deeply appreciate him. Coming back on the show as a note of reference, the topics covered here today were covered in deeper detail within two dharma talks that Joseph gave on a retreat and online eat. Those talks are linked within the show notes and are accessible via the. I s website, highly recommend you check those out and if you're interested in learning directly from Joseph. He is co leading another online retreat, vs spirit rock meditation retreat centre. That's coming up this very week in registration closes tomorrow July. Fifteenth will put a link to that in the show notes as well The show is made by samuel johns dj kashmir can biker, mama rear were tell and gent point we get,

audio engineering from the good folks over it ultra ultraviolet audio and in closing, and as always a big shot out to my absence news colleagues rank has earned josh hand will soon on friday for a bonus. Prime members, you can listen to ten percent happier early and ad free on amazon, music, download the amazon music tat today or. and listened earlier ad free with wondering, plus an apple pie cas before you go a solid and tell us all about yourself by completing a short survey at wonder. He died. Calm, slash servant. You're back with a vast he's, goin ratsey by applebee's. All you can eat bonus wings were twelve. Ninety nine, where we breakdown hot. Take this one says: honey: barbecue is the best wings. Ok, but there are so many sources like applebee's. They ve got six, including classic buffalo, my heartache as wing

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