This is the ten percent happier podcast dan harris heads up in the boston area, we're doing a live taping of the show on september, seventh, at the armory theatre. That's a thursday can't tell you who the guest is, but I suspect you will very much enjoy the conversation we'll put a link to purchase tickets in the show notes. Okay, Now to today's episode. I am a dedicated now in in the diet wars, I've learned to keep my mouth shut on these issues the hard way Over the years I have adopted plenty of food religions, paganism low carb, to name just two. I've track my calories obsessively the whole nine.

a few years ago, as many of you know, I made a decision right here on this show actually in the middle of an interview, to ditch all of that and adopt what has sometimes been called the anti diet. I did this while interviewing a very persuasive person named evelyn. Tripoli will put a linked to that episode in the show notes if you wanna hear it. Evelyn is one of the code: hunters of intuitive eating the theory of intuitive eating is basically that you should eat what you want when you want it with two key guidelines. First, you should listen to your body for cues as to when you're hungry or full, and second, you should definitely have a basic. Rasp of what he is healthy and what is not healthy, intuitive eating. Folks called this. Gentle nutrition As I said, though, I am a non combatants, I'm not here to tell you what or how to eat you can do it do it of eating. If you want, you can skip bread and cookies and strive for could tell us if you out, whatever god bless, but for me This whole intuitive eating thing just makes intuitive sets. The data suggests that most of the time and for most of us die it's done.

We're going on a diet can actually be a predictor of future waking worse, the following what other people tell you you should do about your food and how you should look, etc, etc. Can warp our relationship to food and to your own body, but one of the tricky things about adopting this whole intuitive eating philosophy is that the gentle nutrition part can seem a little vague if you want to opt out of what many people called diet. Culture then know exactly what should you eat? My guest today is endeavouring to answer this question too cute about it to put some meat on the bone. Rachel Hartley as a certified intuitive eating counselor and the author of a book called gentle. nutrition, unknown diet approach to healthy eating. In this conversation, we talked about the basic intuitive eating her thoughts on whether or not we should our ourselves- whether adopting intuitive eating means living with your face and a cookie jar forever, how her work has

What's your own body image, the eight guidelines of gentle nutrition, her provocative contention that the healthiest choice isn't always the most nutritious choice. Her take on some of the court, eggs, have intuitive eating and her take on the trendy new weight loss. Drugs like olympic this, I should say as the sixth and final episode of our series, which we have called get fit. Sanely you miss the earlier installments go check them out. We covered longevity exercise and the impact of food on your mental health. Hit me up if got a moment on twitter or on ten percent that come with the feedback, doesn't really, I think, probably the most amber series we ve ever done and by and we would love to know how it landed before we jump into two his show many of us want to live healthier lives, but keep bumping our heads up against the same. It goes over and over again, but what if there was different way to relate to this gap between

what you want to do, what you actually do, what, if you could find intrinsic motivation for, have a change that will make you happy or instead of sending you into ashamed learn how to form healthy habits without kicking your own ass, on necessarily by taking our healthy habits course over on the ten percent happier app its taught by the Stanford, ecologist kelly mechanical and the great meditation teacher alexis santos to access the course just download the ten percent happier. Wherever you get your apps or by visiting ten percent dot com. All one word spelled out: ok on with the show positive lets you enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app do always find the best of what you love or something new to discover. As an audible member, you can choose one title a month heat from the entire catalogue, including the latest best selling, and new releases with audible ass, you can listen anytime anywhere wild. traveling working out during chores, you decide I judge

downloaded the memoir crying in each marked by michel, zeiner ivory, I love hearing authors read their own work, new members. Try audible, free for thirty days, visit, audible, duck I slashed ten per cent or text, ten percent to five hundred five hundred, that's audible, dot com, slash ten per cent or text, ten percent to five hundred five hundred to try audible, free for thirty days, audible, dot, com, slash, ten percent will know this intuitively, but it's helpful I think, to say it out loud when you're getting high quality sleep. It helps everything in your life get better you ve, gotta, live to live and things. so don't undermine your performance with lousy sleep with asleep number bed. You can customize your sleeve experience, making quality sleep every night effortless each bed has more firmness on each side, so you and your partner can choose what fits you best.

and in the morning you can see how well you slept along with personalized insights for even better sleep, sleep. Next level unlock your unique potential with a smart bed that form as well as you and now the queen sleep. Now we're three sixty see too smart bed is only eight hundred and ninety nine dollars save two hundred dollars, plus special financing. For a limited time, only at sleep number stores or sleep number dot com see store for details. Rachel heartily welcome to the show hi. How are you doing great thanks for coming on? I would think so much for having me, I am just thrilled to be chatting with you today. Likewise I'd love to just get some ground on you. How did you get interested in this now on diet or anti diet approach. Why? Yes, because it certainly is different than the traditional dietetic

model that is all about calories and portion and more rigid control. I think a lot of it actually, what to do with my bringing around food. I consider myself someone who is really privileged with food growing up in beings around by lots of different cuisine, they had parents who were kind of food used before no food ease. That was an actual term that people were using. So I always had this kind of groundwork of understanding that with a lot more than fuel of correspond. Became a dietician. You are tat a very, very different model of relating to food. It is so much more about control and I think that created a lot of confusion for me as the dietician trying to square. You know my upbringing with food and how I had seen different people relate to food as well as, just like me.

calling background in psychology? It things really didn't fit for me, and so I wish I could say that there was some Eu single aha moment- or I was like a high like you know, intuitive eating misses the thing, but really it was this very slow messy process. I was working as an allocation dietician in a virus medical center and counselling clients on your, whether was dying these management or the council that I would get for weight loss son. I knew with that? I had this interpersonal skills with clients like I felt really good about the work that I was doing with them. I always remember we had this patient satisfaction survey and I was ranked like cato ninety per cent of people rigged your score. this excellent, and I was so excited at first those like wow, what a great feeling to have, and then maybe

day later. I was thinking to myself, for why do I feel so effective at my work? Why do I feel like I'm not really actually helping people by teaching them things like, clean eating and portion control. So over time I think, first day a little bit about mindful eating and became interested and dad. Of course, they read in Tripoli and the least dress there, I'm back intuitive eating, and that was like a huge moment for me and learning and growing. I still don't necessarily know how to put that information into action with my clients, but it was definitely the slow process of law being and gradually integrating it with clients, though, is working. Well, she felt off because you been raised alone food and now you're helping other people manage food as opposed to enjoying it yeah absolutely people would come in and they were just feel so much more stress

about the way they were feeding themselves and I would see the sense of shame that people were experiencing if they were now struggling, with eating behaviors or may be they weren't changing the way they were eating by not losing weight or they ate some day. they deemed as bad just part of this traditional diet, headaches paradigm. That is really shame, inducing many people, listen to this may be familiar with intuitive eating, but they're, probably a lot of people who are hearing about it for the first time mentioned evelyn trevally, I probably will have said this in the introduction, but I work with her personally she's been a huge influence for me. Can you just give a basic description? what intuitive eating or what is sometimes referred to as the non diet or aunt. I diet is all about re gas. Absolutely. It is the paradigm for learning how to feed yourself where the focus is on, while being rather than weight, loss

and when we say well being we're talking about not just physical health, but your mental health as well here with something that is a tool for just building a healthier relationship with food and learning to relate with food in a way that feels good. I sometimes describe it as instead of getting super personnel It is about what you're eating and when deserve eating, what you want when you want it with the caveats that you should learn, listen your body about when you're hungry, when your full and they should have a background ambien Understanding of what healthy nutrition looks like without getting obsessed with every little detail of the healthy nutrition. I think that's a great definition yet, and I wish it was as simple. Practice as it. What you want when you why? Yes, intuitive eating, is about eating what you want when you want with this connection cheer body with

sense of embodiment and awareness of how food makes you feel, and I really want to name that that is so much harder to in practice when you are in a space, a really filling negative in your body. If you are some who is in a bigger body and getting a lot of these external societal pressure, is about how you should be eating but yeah, it really. Is you having honnami over your own food decisions and you having Honnami over what is your definition of health? What is health mean to you? It's not pushing a bright or wrong way of eating is creating this space. That allows for you to figure out a way of feeding yourself that you feel good about. I completely

read at its. You could put it in a way as I did. That sounds reasonably simple, but there are a lot of devils in the many many details and I've been working with evelyn tripoli for several years, and it is still quite difficult to mean, for me at least gum china undo decades of conditioning, maybe lifetimes, of conditioning whatever's handed down to me through my genes about my ass about my body, other people's bodies? How much I should he what I should do when so, it's not easy, and yet it is liberating because I've spent so much of my life subscribed dogmatically to some sort of, religion that took me out of the moment and will also set me up her feelings of failure, all the top right absolutely, and I love what you say about how the way that you were brought up around food how it took you out of the moment, ino oftentimes, when we think about health, we're really focused on the physical and

what you're describing there of that lack of presidents? That happened when you were subscribed to die a culture that something that has a huge em I've done your well being and the well being Your family, in your friends in the people who were around you, he'll our ability to be present in our life and to be connected to the people around us into connected with our environment and our community. That's part of health to end its part of nutrition. Is part of you know how we feed ourselves. We connect with other people over food, that's how humans evolved. So I just I really appreciate you adding that point there. yeah. I think there is a key moment for me when I was interviewing evelyn tripoli, for the first time on this by casting she's got me, thinking about how just that morning, I've been eating some avocado toast and feeling guilty about the fact that white bread is alive

Italy, sinful in realising oh, we have, but I was in that moment not tasting my food and not connecting with my wife and child, who were in the room with me. What a waste of good advocated Yes m precious time so yeah. I may I think to me: you can look at this, just as I like super tactically through the lens of what you eat, or you can look at it through the much broader lens of a how you're living in them quality of your life re, looking at it from a sense of well being and how. How is food, how it my relationship with food, either supporting my while being or chipping away. My while being so, let's talk about what ass, a boy were not run through some of the critiques of intuitive eating. But learn more about what it actually entails. Your book is called gentle neutral, and what do you mean by that you had ten attrition, so I wrote my book on the last

principle of intuitive eating witches honouring your health with gentle nutrition, its nutrition? It's all evidence base nutrition, but its focused on using that nutrition knowledge just support your while being rather- and manipulate or control your body size? So I think of it as having a few different points, or maybe a few different places where it converges diet, culture and diet, mentality. One is that it is about your self care rather than self control. So we are approaching gentle nutrition from a place of not controlling food or controlling our body, but caring for our body and supporting its functions and its health end. our well being its flexible,

other than rigid, so diets oftentimes come with these really rigid rules about what to eat but not to eat. Gentle nutrition is something that accounts for the fact that life is going to then I have huge renovation going on in my house right now and I dont have access to a kitchen, so gentle nutrition. For me, it's going to look much different, then, when I actually have a kitchen with stove and like not a house that covered in dust in plastic and all of that gentle nutrition is individual. We, all have our own unique individual nutrition needs and our own relationship with food, which has an impact on our ability to engage with nutrition. oh, he was someone who is odour versus someone who is younger, someone who is an athlete versus someone who is you know, maybe you just kind of moving war it lightly. Some.

Who has a health condition versus someone who doesn't have a diagnosed health condition: gentle nutrition. It can adapt to all. Those really individualised needs that people have no other points with gentle nutrition. It is something that looks at the big picture, so instead of hyper focusing on each individual meal, each individual snag or on specific foods. Gentle nutrition is something that zooms out and looks at our patterns of eating over time and helps us gonna get away from this paper focus every single bite of food that we put in our mouth. I know evelyn, often says you're, one meal is not going to make or break your health, and that is so true and yet the way that diet and food and nutrition is traditionally todd is with this emphasis on every single meal has to be perfectly balanced and I have to eat

the right foods- and I have to always have healthy foods are. I can only have twenty percent unhealthy that may eighty percent healthy foods are these silly rules that take us wave from evaluating the big picture of how we're feeding Ourselves- and you know. Lastly, I often say that gentle nutrition is about positive nutrition rather than subtracting so we're focusing in on adding foods and rather than taking foods out of our eating pattern. We have some of the questions that a lot of people ask when they are confronted with this pretty radical, idea. One question is you talked about how much she way are you saying we should never way ourselves? I don't reckon. Then people way themselves, I'm not here to say that you should never each person out there. It is individual, but the number on this scale you what kind of info

reason is that giving you is it actually giving you information? That is helpful for you figuring out how to feed yourself in a way that feels good the clients that I work with in my practice, often times what happens? Is they hop on the scale and they see the number is either up or it's down and it has an impact on how they choose to feed themselves. For the day of the number is up, they might say: oh, my gosh will screw it leg. My awaits us I feel happy about it. So you know I set out it all over monday or if it's down you know that my reinforced restrictive eating behaviors or conversely, if it's down, they might feel like gush I've earned at this specific food instead of getting connected to their body here when we wear or so It's something that takes us away from our own embodiment and our own connection with our body and its wisdom. I always

away from giving these very. Like specific know, you should never do that, but I would have a lot of concerns about someone weighing themselves, but is there no connection between number on the scale and your health, there is much less than the connection between the scale and our health than we have been tied, traditional health care or teaches us that food and fitness are, we are sort of the end, all be all of health, yeah. Our weight can have an impact on health, but I think in a very different way than most people recognize. You know when we look at research and weight science on the relationship between waken health, we actually see things like wait, stigma and waste I claim that have a much greater impact than ones you just their static number on this scale? So, for example, I said, wait. Cycling most people are familiar with yo, yo, dieting and the up and down

happens in our body when were going and I are going off a diet losing weight regaining way. Well, that's a lot for your body to have to go through to go, for, oxygen eating and nourishing and moving a body, that's bigger, to smaller, to bigger to smaller and back again. We know that that puts a lot of metabolic stress on the body is so now wait cycling as something that accounts actually there some research that suggest that that might even be the vast majority of the difference. in correlations b, c and health among people in an air quitting I'll, be out. My is there in the higher be eyes. The other thing I mentioned was way stigma. If someone is eggs Sting in a larger body, they're getting constant messages from society.

Their body is not. Ok, it's a stressful thing to navigate the world and a bigger body. And what is the impact on one's house? That's again, it's not to say that, even if we eliminate wait stigma, even if we eliminate wait cycling that there is zero relationship between way and have you know if I had a magic wand and could just magically away if someone in smaller body? It is certainly within that roma possibility died. It could have a positive impact on their health by we don't have a magic wand, someone

in a way that involves some dieting. It involves them taking medications that involves them having a surgery all these things that are not health, neutral behaviors. So is it your view that diets flat out do not work yeah? That's really what the research shows us that other than a very, very small percentage of people and studies vary, but it looks like somewhere between you know three and tennis percent, and then we could have a whole other converse sure about that three, two hundred percent who lose weight and keep it off for a long time of like how many of them are struggling with disordered eating or and eating am disorder, but yeah there that research shows again then again that there really isn't one single way of someone losing a significant amount of weight and keeping it off permanently and the final question I just want to get up.

Yes, I've talked about this with everybody's come on whose a proponent of intuitive eating, but again for the new bees. Here, I suspect, eviler. And thinking all along and waiting for me to ask. If you tell May I can eat whatever I want whenever I want, I will live with my face in a cookie jar forever. Yes, that is how people often feel- and I have heard the fear again and again and again, and I have seen that fear dispel it again and again and again in my practice, so that might happen for short period of time. There is the thing how the honeymoon phase that many people go through when their loosening restrictions, you think about it, if you haven't had a lot of experiences with like orioles or something

of course, you're real learning how to engage with orioles in a way that feels good and that's probably going to involve some faced plants and to oreo situations so care. That is real thing that happens, and it can feel so scary when someone is new tend to it have eating if possible. I always encouraged like working with somebody. Of course that's really. Privilege thing to be able to have someone who can work with one on one or at the very least having a facebook group or somebody else where you can try there are these things than normalized that experience of the honeymoon period by what we see again and again, is that it really is the restriction. That's fuelling the

faced plant into the orioles behaviorist. So it's not. The orioles itself is the fact that we have been deprived of them and for me personally cheeses, like my absolute favour, food, like I love like fancy cheese play, there's always that joke about like, in our view, the bread person or that she is worse than I am that she is first, and that is my favorite and it for some time. then I don't know like there is a plague that infected cow them, we're not going to have any it. She is any more. I would be running. Training escort restore just like all on the all the wheels of brie and just either going to town on it. It's that restriction, as that fear, of not having it in the future that leads to behaviors that feel very out of control with food. So, yes, that fear is valid and you probably will have some instances.

Where you feel kind of out of control around food at first and its subsides over time as you're getting more practice eating those previously off limits foods and as your chipping away at that most of restriction, that fear of dispute is bad, or the food is going to cause some sort of catastrophic held the fact, as that is becoming a bit more normalized your behaviors, with that food are going to feel much more comfortable to just speaking for myself, I can't remember if it's been three or four years that I've been working with evelyn on intuitive eating, but I definitely went through that honeymoon phase, which is like, I think, not probably the right way to describe it, because it doesn't feel like a honeymoon. It feels like a desert. esther began. So I was completely I had two like completely gorge and then crying to evelyn about how totally out of control as you like? No no you're just working through giving yourself permission to do this, and once you

feel genuinely in your bones that you can have sugar anytime, you want it. You won't feel crazy. About a year like still the kid whose parents and let Gimme deserve more than like once a week and you're rebellion, and that makes a lot of sense, I would say many years later, I have a very different relationship to sugar now and I can still have day where, if I'm tired or I m not mindful just the other day, there was a bunch of scream sunday is on the table and I would just mindlessly eating at a meeting in the media fell like shit, but I would say that happens way less frequently than it used to and now I am much more likely to view a day like that as a data point rather than an abject failure and a trip down into the toilet. Vortex. It's like oh yeah. Ok, I figured out that if I'm not paying tension you'd, if I'm well slapped and not super stress, if I'm not paying attention, sugar

super addictive and I come you know get is anyway. I said a lot there does that leave that land for you gas new. I appreciate you sharing that example, because I think people think of intuitive, and they bring a diet, mentality and intuitive eating, it's almost like I'm doing. it or I'm not doing it like tomorrow, I'm going to be an intuitive eater and I think what you share. It is a wonderful example of how intuitive eating it's a practice and we're gonna have days even myself, this being an intuitive eating. Counselor I am days I have your meals were not very connected, I'm not eating very intuitively and that's ok. We can get curious about. Why did that happened like what was going I'm died here. We were eating obvious. I screams damages to the point about stomach ache, but you don't have to look at it. From a point of shame, I like to talk to my clients,

lot about the difference between shame and go, and how shame is this idea that, when we make on this a girl when we do something that doesn't align with our values. This, because there are some fall within us, is because we're broke in. We have some character flop rather than gill which, and you might feel a little bit we're do this on a sound like I'm telling you, you should feel good see about that, but skill you know. Sometimes we make a mistake with foods. Sometimes we eat in a way that doesn't really correlate with how we want to take care of of ourselves and our values around food and taking care of our body and ok really feel a little bit a key about. It may be that doesn't feel good, but can we just get curious about what were the factors leading up to it, and you may be there thing to learn from? Maybe there's information that helpful for you another day or maybe just

I'm sorry, it's just that you too many eyes. Edward said them. That's part of life and it doesn't have to be a big deal. That's another! Do yes, the fifa. The way it's often talked about in men asian circles, is the difference between shame and wise remorse, shame iceland has to think of shame is like a kind of a psychic constipation. It keeps you with your head up your ass. because you shame is all about you telling yourself a story about how bad you are. So you get real stuck in that place, whereas wise remorses, whatever fuck up you ve, just make it's not about you holistically as a person, it's about you made a mistake, and maybe you hurt somebody else or you hurt yourself, but can you not get stuck in telling yourself a whole shame story, and so I find that really useful end that helps me when I get. You know that, just like, I did this past sunday, where I was my spoon just kept finding its way back into this huge

sunday, over and over and over again, and I felt physically and cycle Jake Mckenna shitty afterwards, I was able to pull myself at a spiral much more quickly than I would have in the past. I love that I've one less big picture good for you about intuitive eating and that you have these eight guidelines to what you call gentle nutrition, that I do want to run as well. But let me just ass the one last question because I think for me a big piece of intuitive eating has been too and I'm not in any way all the way on the other side of this, but is to have different expectations about how my body look in the mirror and I'm just curious about how you with that because we live in a culture where four guys, it's you know, on instagram your buddies or posting post work out pictures with well defined jobs and blah blah blah, and I find that I'm just constantly taking the voice of the culture in

the moment where I look at myself in a mere after I've got now that the shower and I've gotten better at that, but it still like I've still wrestling with that. As for you, are you like just down with work, over your body looks at any given moment here. Do still obsess about that on some level here about my small body here yeah. I appreciate you asking that acts. I think that's an important question because we bring our bodies into this work. You know been doing this work for a long time, and I am someone who deeply values that all bodies deserve respect and I'm somebody sometimes struggle spit The image I found that I know my specific triggers like I know for me when my stomach, father in me like that, was always in area for me body image why's that I was really sensitive and self conscious about, and so

when I have an upset stomach when I have like reflex or something that often times that physical discomfort will turn into this thought of my body as the problem dad. You know where I feel and happy with my appearance. I also notice that there are certainly times where I'm around can like yours, paganel looking on instagram or you're just one year with friends that sometimes when I'm in a social situation where I feel a little may be out of place through. I feel egg, and a little bit of that. Oh, my gosh, those are the popular kids in high school, feeling bad. Sometimes I feel a bit uncomfortable for a kia, my body and I feel so grateful that I have gotten to a place where I know that those feelings are going to pass and that I'm not someone who's acting on it but yeah. I think that's such an important question, because people

I often feel like they can't practice intuitive eating unless they feel like one hundred per cent accepting of their body, and that's rarely the case. You know. If someone has the one hundred per cent of accepting of their body, they probably are just naturally for pretty intuitive eater really normal to feel uncomfortable in your skin? times or maybe all the time, and I still think that intuitive eating is the paradigm that we can too great and and utilised as a tool for helping you a healthier relationship with food as something that can help. You noticed that discomfort and sit with that discomfort and not necessarily have to act in a way that is harmful. Yeah I've been very influenced by one of the their interviews. We ve done in the series in the series were running about getting fit without losing your mind, car alai, who is a friend of mine and amazing, meditation teacher. Why

we'd. Her recently, we ve already posted at and she talked about instead of body positivity. Just like body respect, here again you can you just be grateful for the fact that this whole system, this network of networks in your body, is functioning. largely outside of your conscious control, and so you know it. have to try to exercise all of the culturally ingrained thoughts about how your body should look. It's can be hard to do that but can you have easier cooler, more supple relationship to the south, system around that and wake up in those moments and revert back to yeah. Maybe I'm having a moment of judgment about how distended my belly is, but I'm glad

add that all the parts in there are working well and that I'm generally healthy, et cetera, et cetera as a body respect? Yes, yes, I love that. I oftentimes talk to my clients about the difference between body, respect and body, kindness and I think of bodies, Does this very elemental like your body needs enough food like that is part of respecting your body here body has its like basic needs. You know, no matter how you feel about your body, no matter how you feel about your appearance. Your body still deserves adequate. Food at still deserves to eat enough to be able to function and to be able to function well, and if we want to take it one step further and treat your body with some kindness, here's how we can integrate some nutrition or some pleasurable movement, displeasure and general with food payment coming up rachel. Hardly about the eight guidelines of gentle nutrition and her provocative contention that the healthiest

choice is not always the most nutritious choice. Andy's list is now angie and we have heard a lot of berries about why I thought it was an eco viewers bless paper. It was so you could see it faster, no were to be more. I caught. It must be, as acting by those are quite right. It's because now you can compare out from prices book a service instantly and even get your project handled from start to finish the nomes easy and it makes us so much more than just a list get started at angie dot com, that's Angie, I or download the app today, hey I'm a regime and I'm brook and where the hosts of wonder he spied cast even the rich, where we bring you absolutely true and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen are numerous.

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They ve got a lot of vitamins, minerals, nutrients, fibre. There is a lot of great reasons to be feeding, our body, fruits and vegetables, and I think we can do that without crowding out Other sources of energy guideline number two is whole grains and other fibre rich carb sources? Okay, this is slightly more controversial because we vilified carbs in some corners of our culture these days so up say more yes, yes, yes, a symphony to see how carved have become, this controversial food and and greens, it's sort of selling me when you look around the world and see other different cultural values of eating. Carbs are always the basis of different cultural, I had such a huge part of how we nourish ourselves for eternity is, though, it's really wild to see carbs get vilified, but I want to kind of point out with this one- the refined grain

get a lot of bad press people talk about white red or white rice or white pasta as if it's this really damaging thing to eat, as if it will cause harm to your body. But instead, but I like to do, is think about how can we just add in some fibre rich grains. We know from larger studies that people who eat carbs and people who eat whole grains at that this is associated with good health. So Can we integrate it in a way whereby not diminishing pleasure with food? So for me, when I work with clients that oftentimes looks like finding wetter, whole grains are other five rich carbohydrates, that you really enjoy tell me they enjoy potatoes, which are a fiber, rich carbohydrate. Thoris me they enjoy holgrave brain but they really hate brown reyes than they really hate. Whole grain pasta. So how can we just kind of work with what you like and integrate some

walgreens rather than doing a hundred percent whole grains, because back oftentimes led to digest of issues for all that. You here about fibre and whole grains. Indigestion like there is such a thing as too much fibre and so have that may smacks of summer find grains and some whole grains is beneficial, but just to be clear you what we can ok about refine grain, so like white, bread and fresh made pasta and all that stuff and they are not players, and I it's interesting when so I hear a lot from clients about how these foods might impact their blood sugar and certainly, if you look at an effort, was the man eating white bread and then a clone of that person eating a whole graham bread or brown raised and white rice. You do see a slight difference in the glassy make a fact, meaning how that food affects their blood sugar there. It's not a huge difference, but there is a slight difference, but when you're eating

foods as part of a meal. So when you're having a say much that has the whole graham bread or when you're having white raised with chicken or you know, fish or be for whatever protein forests and having some vegetables, but then, when you're getting that makes the fat and protein and carbohydrates there's not a huge difference in how it impacts your blood sugar levels, what about frank, froze french fries, delicious, Actually I used french fries as an example of how we vilify certain foods in these ways that dont really make a lot of sense. When you can dive into the details, so you think about a friend try its potatoes, its oil. But this is a bad food. We shouldn't be eating french fries, but then you think about roasted petition that's the healthy food and virtuous food, but at the end of the day, it's also potatoes and oil. So when our body, when we eat french fries or if we have roasted potatoes potato

like the chemical compounds as that, your body breaks, sat down and digested absorbs the nutrients. It's really. Not all that different like is there a slight difference in fat content sure? But it's really not that different, because fried foods, the process of frying it actually creates kind of a seal on the outside that you're not getting it as much oil, as you might think, that's kind of a funding sample I love to share third guideline is, don't fear, fats, speaking of french fries, yes, fats are satisfying their satiating. There is the purpose for fast, so

when I went to school, were just kind of coming out of that low fat craze and getting into the whole adkins kind of diet, but there are still such a hangover about fats, but I think some of it actually has to do with the name itself. We associate dietary fat with adipose tissue, but fat. It's just one of our three macro nutrients and We needed a place, important functions in our body. It gets integrated entire brain. Our brain is actually a mechanism gonna but you're the number- but I want to say, is like somebody, five percent fat or something like that. But it is the latter nor had raised the glare- and it also play a role in creating hormones- is helpful for digestion. So we really it's a food group does essential begets vilified. I find from an intuitive eating standpoint to when people

overlook fat as part of their meals. They end up leaving a meal feeling now very satiated, not very satisfied. They end up feeling huh very soon after eating and either Benjy later or eating in a way that feels chaotic and out of control. So I encourage people to cook with fat You add fat to their meals to think of it as not just a sort of thing to prevent food from sticking to your pan, but something like a flavouring ingredient? Tail? Were you on butter? Oh, I love it all. I am I'm team that our first sore, it has a flavor that you just can't replicate from other foods. Butter gets a bad rap because the saturated fats and its effect on our cholesterol levels, but it's a great example of how theirs

colonel of nutrition truth that gets blown up and exaggerated to the point where it's no longer helpful for us. So what butter? For example, there are some people out there who can eat larger quantities of saturated vat and doesn't really have a big impact on their cholesterol levels. Yes, there is this small number of people who are more sensitive to dietary cod. straw, but it's not something we have to fear and get overly anxious about. Songs were using lots of other types of that's too in a people who could, with butter, usually cook with things with olive oil or maybe peanut oil Neither using on africa auto oil like we can get something eighty and rather than demonizing a specific food, but you don't want eating sticks of butter every day, there has to be some moderation here I would imagine sure and that's where consciousness comes then, rather than a restriction, I

imagine if someone is actually eating, sticks the butter. There might be some other things going on there. If you don't forget its nessus, really a behaviour that people would engage in without ever know some degree of restriction going on. That's influencing those behaviour so tat. We can be conscious about things, for example, high cholesterol, friends in my family. I have high cholesterol, I've always had high cholesterol. Even when I was a morbid did eat are, and so because a dad, I do try to be a little bit more conscious about butter or saturated vats, but we can do that the way were not restricting ourselves. I often ask people to think about. Does that change make you feel deprived, or does that make you feel restricted, and if so, then, maybe that's not necessarily the healthiest choice for you. Maybe that's not something that's actually improving. Your while being, but if you feel like hey, I can try to

back a little bit on better, maybe cook, with more olive oil, and it feels like a varied shoal, easy change to make great. You have a pretty radical quote here. The healthiest choice is not always the most nutritious choice. Yes, I like to distinguish between health and nutrition. So we label foods as healthy or not healthy, but to me how this something that, very different than nutrition. Health is something that incorporates hours. Illogical while being are social connection with people bear sort of financial situation and socio economic, so health has two is much more nuance them common, vitamin c and fibre is in a certain food. So, yes, nutrition is a piece of whether a food might be a healthier choice for you, but it's not necessarily the end all be all so, for example,

I signed up, I'm not exactly sure. Why did this, but with some friends they talked me into running a half marathon and or they had out. One goes, but I think about when I worked with runners em, what did they do before arrays they take that job hag? What is that jello that energy gel pack it sugar? It's not something provides their body with a lot of nutrition. It's not as the thoroughly and nutritious food, but it's probably one of the healthiest as they can make in the moment, because it provides their body with that simple source of energy. So again we can think about nutrition. Intuitive eating doesn't mean that all foods are equal. That you know, a brownie is just as nutritious as a salad, that's not the case, but that brownie in certain situations might be the healthier choice. For you and that salad might actually be a less healthy choice

I think it goes beyond just like you know it is a healthy choice to action before you on a long run, even though its not classically nutritious, I think, there's a psychological compose that I'm hearing to what you're saying, which is, if king with oil, instead of butterfield restrictive, is gonna, be set you up for binges down the road degrade your quality of life increase. Your stress, that's likely to tap holistically speaking. Some negative health, impacts on your whole body and so yeah. Maybe you ought to think about a different way to approach it rather than straight up restriction. Yes, yes, even if a food by certain I only unhealthy, is labeling it as such, or eliminating it from your diet. Does that actually help? You engage with it in a healthy way, and I think the research and my professional experience is now so the idea of like how nutritious the food is like can think about that, and that can be something we integrate information we take

in, and we use and figuring out how to feed ourselves, but at the end of the day, doesnt matter the nutrition content of a food, is eliminating. It is something that causes stress than I dont know that that is the healthiest choice for you, guidelines four is eat more plants and fewer animals. Yes, thou kind of abroad, again and again I want to be very clear. I noticed thing myself, thinking about the listeners out here who may be hearing these I'd lines and feeling of beds. Maybe ten, third feeling a sense of restriction. Coming up within them or a sense of fear or guilt about their own eating behaviour is so. One thing I want to emphasise is that these are guidelines and very very loose guidelines, just like the principles of into of eating our guidelines and not roles, but guess when we zoom out and look at the big picture of people's eating habits, we know that eating in a more plants

heard way, not necessarily being another there's nothing wrong with that of some months do began and the thoroughly vegetarian again, even though there is nothing wrong with that, but integrating more plants, less animals that is beneficial for our overall health for most people, and I would argue to the environment, which is part of health to their health outside of ourselves. Yeah. Just to interject. Here with some personal reflections, I was vegan for about four or five years, and then I was deterrent for a minute and then I it fell down and now back back armed of land, although pretty heavy on plants and often dont have any meat or fish until dinner and some days, I don't have any at all, and yet prior guests in this series we ve been running at large, that, like we really do need more protein, especially as we age, and that animal approach

I hope, not mingling the advice, but that animal protein is really the easiest way to get it. So, what's your take on that advice, gas, I think there's benefits to including animal based protein in our eating, and that doesn't mean that someone shouldn't be a beginner, a vegetarian. If that's what they're asking we called for this is all very individual. There are some people out. There were maybe eating a totally plant centre. Diet is what feels good for them, and that's wonderful. Other people might find that they really feel best eating more animal, protein than eating a more protein heavy eating pattern, and again that's great for them too, but overall there's benefits too. Including animal based protein, because, like you said it is probably the easiest way to get protein in and we do have a little bit higher protein needs as we get older. Of course, with the caveat that most people

really getting more than enough protein in their diet, but this is a great example of how we can take information about nutrition and how do we want to apply it to ourselves if someone is ethically called two b of the again, that doesn't mean even if knew for certain that their body would get some benefits out of including animal proteins. That doesn't mean that that's the choice that they have to make there's a lot more that goes into our decisions, about food, so guy hope that can it gives a little better than you once they're, just as the friendly place from new out low number five- is have dairy. If you enjoy it again, another food group that has been really demonized. I often say: there's these colonels of truth in nutrition that got so blown out of proportion, and there is the kernel of truth that many cultures

just don't, eat dairy, it's not part of their traditional beating patterns. It's not necessarily a thing like you have to have to have, and Add to that. Like, I definitely think they're, you know milk. I you know when I was growing up in the eighties, was certainly pushed on you quite a bit from you know all the got milk campaigns, but there are actual benefits to dairy know. A wonderful source of protein calcium and other bone building. Minerals see think of potassium and magnesium. It's something! That's delicious and hasty and convenient, and a simple thing to pack as a snack so I really love dairy, and I also encourage people to go for a two percent are full fat version of it. My teeth

much much better. In my opinion, and it's gonna help keep you say she had longer. Next, one is be mindful about sweets gets going back to that sort of like consciousness, without being obsessive about it. Again, I'm putting myself in the position of the listener- and I think under this principle- and this is something I talk- out. Quite a bit in the book is that, most of the time when people are eating large quantities of sweets, oftentimes it's under the can it's kind of deprivation. We've all kind of heard. Those rat studies about like the rats who are addicted to sugar and what I love to share with my clients is that they actually didn't show those addictive behaviors around sugar unless they were being deprived of food. So if this kind of classic

as a study that get shared about why we should be careful about sugar, you know you're going to get addicted to it, and you know once you start eating it, you're never going to be able to stop, and when we actually look at the studies that worse reporting, that the only mice that showed addictive behaviors towards sweets were hungry. Food, deprived mice and mice were given free access to food. They didn't actually show, though his behavior is towards sweets. So I always tell share with my clients like if you want to have a healthier relationship with sweets, try baking some cookies, actually allow yourself to eat some sweets and at the same time we can have some degree of consciousness Does that make you feel better eating sweets without pairing it with that some protein

So how does that feel when you're going a period of time where you know maybe you're eating a larger quantity of sweets? Like? Is that what makes you feel good? Maybe it doesn't make a difference in how you feel or beer note a thing like yeah, I gotta get some proteus than here we're gonna get to this with the last of the guidelines which, for my money is that the most important but yeah I do think it's like for me- it's been about How do I feel I had a day this past saturday, before sunday gate the ice cream sunday extravaganza miller had the following day where I was in my son all day, went a baseball game and were at a birthday party, I would think I had anything to eat that day other than desert, and I felt like garbage, like total garbage, if it did the worst and so I think, just tuning into that is useful and yet and here's my question. I think you're a lot of people myself among them who many nights per week, if not every night after

having had abounds dinner, I like to a little desert shit be feeling any guilt about that. Given that you said be mindful of sweets, when I say my father It does not mean eliminating sweets. We have plenty here for him to be able to eat speeds every day. It's interesting to study is that look at sugar, consumption and health, but the caveat that correlational studies are not that great, but we certainly do see a correlation between health outcomes and sugar intake, but even at that lowest level of sugar intake where we see the best health people are still eating sweets every single day. Those are still people who eat swedes so tight culture has taught us that sweet sir to be eaten like once a week or every once in a while, but we can include her regularly, and that doesn't mean were harming our health or body knowest. What to do with that?

Nobody body knows like when we digest star desserts when we digest a snack that has added sugar in it. You know it goes into our stomach. It gets broken down into glucose and all the other parts of the food, but once that food enters our gut once it enters our blood, dream that glucose from that sweden is the same as glucose from keen my or oatmeal or nino, potatoes or whatever other food. So again, it's not something that we have to get obsessive about. Penultimate guidelines here emphasised fresh food yeah. There is again kernel of truth that fresh foods have lots and nutrients and at the same time I love convenience foods. I think they're a wonderful tool for feeding ourselves when we're busy when we

dont have a lot of time when, like me right now, when you don't have access to a gets them, there is the purpose for convenience foods, and can we incorporate some more fresh foods and can we emphasise more fresh foods? in our overall eating pattern. So yeah, I I always want to be. I know clean eating, has sort of put unprocessed foods are whole foods, whatever that means up on a pedestal, and I think it's important to really look at it as something that has been that's something that we can incorporate more of in our overall eating pattern without out alive. been eating processed foods without demon, hissing foods that come from a box or come from. I can cause it's a really privileged way to think about food. You think about that time and energy

goes into cooking a meal, that's made from all fresh whole ingredients and a lot of people I don't have time for that It also might not have the money for that. So again we can highlight the nutrition benefits of a food or food group without demonizing other foods You have word allowed on social media that there's been some fearmongering around chemicals in food. You have this post, this joking processes worn These chemicals are hidden in your food, such as die hydrogen, peroxide, ok, water, sodium by carbonate, a k a baking soda and you go on and on, but should we have no concern Some of these unpronounceable ingredients. yeah. I love that post because, My goal is to have its a scary, sounding bang and oftentimes. There are certain added sir ingredients in foods that have a longer unpronounceable any more lives.

I, like I, wouldn't have that in my kitchen, but marriages, regular, Ingredients may be there. Vitamins and minerals that have been added so here is that to say that we should have zero concern. You and someone who certainly looks at the food industry with some degree of scepticism, Joe I'm, not someone who puts all of my trust in who'll large company, yes, and I do think we need to chill out a bit on ingredients without getting too can a detailed cost. I think a spur we get until will be more individualised stuff like yes, there are certain Ingredients are additives that might not be the greatest for certain people, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be eating processed goods or that, if we see something that has an ingredient. We can't pronounce that that's automatically bad for us coming up. Rachel talks about the final guideline out of the eight guidelines of gentle nutrition, for my money, for whatever it's worth. This final guideline is the most important

We also talk about her, take on some of the critiques of intuitive eating and we'll get it away and on those trendy, new weight loss. Drugs, including olympic life, is short, and it full of a lot of interesting questions. What is happiness really mean? How do I get the most out of my time here on earth and what really is the best cereal? These questions I seek to resolve on my weekly podcast life is short with just in long. If you're looking for the answer to deep,

some of your questions like what is the meaning of life can really help you. But I do believe that we really enrich our experience here by learning from others and that's why each episode I'd like to talk with actors, musicians, artists signs is and many more types of people by how they get the most out of life. We explore how they felt during the highs and sometimes more importantly, the loaves of their careers. We discuss how they ve been able to stay happy during summer the harder times, but if I'm being honest, did say it mostly just fun shots friends about the important stuff like if you had a sandwich named after you. What would be on it follow life is short. Wherever you get, your podcast speaking also listen ad on the amazon, music or wonder yeah. Finally guideline, as I said before, I think this is that you may agree or disagree or no to me this jesse like truly the bottom line, and maybe exactly why you put it on the bottom line,

pay attention to how food makes you feel- and with reference to this, you know like with sugar, I like like eating sugar, but too much of it or feed at the wrong time of day or fight the wrong You know a certain type of sugar certain products- I am, I feel like shit, and so just listen to that. Yes, yes, human beings were designed to be flexible with there's no one right way of eating, and so I know a sort of world pattern of eating. That feels good for me and it sounds like you. Ve worked on discovering a general can a pattern. Floating you're eating? That feels good for you, but that doesn't mean it's going to feel good for another person, and this is where I get back minutely anger, hidden, fired up when I see people lie in saying: hey it's like my way or the highway. This is the right way to eat if you're eating different than the spire, then you're hurting me Well, your harming yourself, you're killing yourself, like the fear among around that the reality is, if you

look around the world and you look at all the different patterns of eating that we have evolved to thrive off of theirs huge differences like We can have big differences in our macro nutrient composition of our eating. We can eat a large variety of foods or there's some cultures for humans and where or they have less the variety suit to say that there is one. Right away, I think that's selling false promises. I think it's using fear too. A programme or a product it something it's me angrier how we feel that can be a incredible source of wisdom and feeding ourselves. We can tuna. and and check in with our body and notice. What feels good in a non judge. Toby intuitive eating is an is eating, meals that you feel ass. Some after life happens. Like your example, the sunday gate years. Sometimes we in ways that don't necessarily feel good

it doesnt mean we ve done catastrophic damage, tar body, our bodies are not these like delicate little flowers that we have to care for. Our bodies are designed to take rough and tumble and admitted these some people their bodies, the rate of it more than other people's bodies, but we still don't need to approach intuitive eating if every meal we're going to leave the dinner table feeling like like my dear justin, is grades, and I feel incredible and energized in a way that it's just not realistic you every time I worry about beating up my body. I look at Keith richard that, due to high grade cocaine, crappy heroin for decades he's still kick, and yet as you know, my dad but assyrian analogy that I often use here there is the idea. Diet. Culture promotes this idea of treating her body like a temple and economic to say. Ok with twitter, How do like a house? We wanna keep up

third general maintenance of our home, like you, don't want to spring a leak and let it go and- and you know like a year later- have like all sorts of damage going on some mold. For me, we wanted to take care of her our house. We want to make sure we're engaging with some amount of upkeep, but also like we don't have to have this pristine in a perfectly clean architectural, digests type home, and so our house, just like our house, can survive. Whether or not you know sometimes like do go wrong with our house than like. We can fix that. We don't have to be so pristine with howard, caring for our body, so let me ask about some of the critiques we ve heard of intuitive eating in the course of this size. These we had on doktor mark hymen and behaves generally pro intuitive eating, but he did say- and this just picks up on your point- about listening to your body. He was just saying that, like it, if your brain has been totally hijack for years by diet, culture

and or just terrible nutrition. You know you ve been just living off of a fast food. That's the way you were raised that is asking each can be very hard to learn to listen to your body and intuitive eating may not work in those cases. What's your rebuttal of any yeah be curious about let his definition of work means if work means achieving. sort of way of eating that alliance. With his view of what healthy eating should look like, then, maybe not. It is true that we grow up around food influence. Is our taste buds. Our tastes, preferences and intuitive eating is about figure, out away of eating that feels good for the individual. So you know, if he's gonna look and as someone who is that, upon fast food, and I thought they beaten for every single meal. Wool intuitive eating can help support them and

figuring out a way of improving their both physical health and mental health, without disregarding their tastes, preferences so yeah. I find that when a little bit hard to square and also just thinking about the people who have worked with who have felt like they were addicted term sweet, sir, they struggled with been cheating disorder. perhaps the view that their eating pattern objective, They were not getting a lot of nutrition and, and still there was deprivation in there. That was feeling those behaviors which you wouldn t think, because if someone is eating at a fast food, all the time or whatever their eating. It said not being deprived, but that emotional restriction around food has a huge impact It's one thing to allow yourself to eat food, but if you're telling yourself, oh, how bad for doing this there's something wrong

with me. If there's a lot of shame there, it's gonna keep em trapped in the same behaviour. So I would also add to that that what role is done basin playing in these supposedly occurred hijacked eating behaviors. they also just kind of wonder what is the alternative you know is that so and who were we throwing just like our rigid way of eating at that person and kind of expecting like if it intuitive eating, is off limits for them. What is, like within their their means within their capabilities. Well, I mean, I don't know in reading the new york times article in your calves. It a big take out recently on evelyn aaa in her power. Or rash, who came up with intuitive eating low these many decades, and it was largely a quite complimentary, but there were a few critics in there and I you might be able to recapitulate their criticisms better than I can. But if memory serves

The criticism ran along the lines of like sometimes actually we really it's a life, a matter of life. that we really need to put somebody on a restrictive diet because they are morbidly obese anyway, and does that jibe with your memory of what was said in the article yeah, I think that was yeah essentially that intuitive eating is fine up until a certain point, but if someone's weight has gone to a point where it's deemed too I then we have to do a diet and we have to focus on weight loss, and I disagree with that. As always, intuitive eating is an option so for someone out there who, as you know, is in a highway body who wants to pursue weight loss, that's fine, I'm bodily autonomy, but I have some questions about. How is that pursued? How is that focus on way over one, psychological, health and well being? Is that actually,

things? Someone improve their overall health and, well being so, I do not see intuitive eating as have in a weight limit. I dont see it as something that is only for people who are in smaller bodies. I work with me the people who will be am I as in that I say the air quote like morbidly obese range, because it's a really stigmatizing term and actually has the sidebar that the phrase morbidly obese was developed by a barrier. surgeon, because you're gonna sell a lot more bury surgery. If it sounds like you might drop dead at any minute, but can I think we're some of that? Comes then? Is people assume intuitive eating is Just eating down ass, all the time or eating swedes are just eating, and this kind of stereotypically unhealthy way and it's hard for them to square how we use this tool for someone who is

struggling with their health, and it's all about like meeting the person where they're at and figuring out like what is supportive for you and taking care of your health. And can we do that with looking at a specific number on the scale as the outcome. So if someone has legitimate health concerns, whether there at a high weight or not. We can do that, while also utilizing that intuitive eating paradigm words were has to happen in your view, is a rethinking round the relationship to food in your body and, if you're not doing that, if you just going with gritted teeth white knuckling restriction, it is unlikely to work in an abiding way exactly because dieting it doesn't change one's relationship with food. and I'll say there are plenty of people who have very high, be amazed who eat just dinner. Overall

healthy way, who take care who care about their health than are active and a few new? They go to the doctor. there are perhaps are licking gray. So there are plenty of people who We are in objectively fat bodies, then I I use that phrase fat, not in a pejorative way, but just as a descriptor, they are healthy. They are just objectively healthy and if someone is struggling with health concerns, what happens when we fail? guess on way as the way of improving their house. Yet we know that diets don't work long term. There is actually a study that looked at tens of thousands of people and the probability of someone in a new era obese body attaining quota for normal beta, like I'm doing a lot air quotes ever hear. It was something like one in eight, now as then, are one in nine thousand. I'm probably picturing the numbers a little bit, but it's extremely

strongly low probability. So how can we just support that person's held without depriving them of food and nutrients, because the most important part of healthy nutrition is whether someone getting an food is interesting, as there has been some mockery around this notion of healthy at any size, because you, you here say well you're, just justifying you know patently unhealthy weight, even though it is true, as you said that looking at something even if their stereotypically quorum quote fat, that they actually maybe super healthy. But there are critics who say how they did. I mean size is basically just political correctness brought into nutrition yeah. I think that arises from a really fundamental misunderstanding, because health at every size- it's not about

finding one's health. It's not about looking at someone on the street and saying like you're, healthy or not you're sick. It's about giving people the opportunity to pursue health, no matter what health means to them. So health can mean different things for different people and really, frankly, if you kind of look at the world and take into account like until health conditions, fiscal health conditions, no one out. There are very few people who are struggling, who don't have something that struggling with, but yeah like health at every size. It creating a world where someone can you focus on things besides changing their body size, to improve their while being so whether that's engaging with pleasurable movement instead of militant exercise, whether its helping people get access to health, care because, unfortunately, in infuriating lee people are denied healthcare because of their way people are denied surgery. Is there

delayed health care. There told that hey. Why don't you lose weight and in six come back and then will treat your condition. People are denied access to fertility treatment, so health at every size is about creating a world where we are really supporting people in their own individual decisions around their body with our foreseeing weight loss, as this solution just a quick question as we wind down here, and maybe there's no quick answer, so you can pass if you want, but just be curious. Everybody is talking about ozone, pick as a weight loss, drug and its up in a part of a family of drugs that people are taking in, I guess reducing their appetite in helping and lose weight which you're take on that guy. It's me

I want to see this medication I mean really is everywhere, and I get so many questions from my clients because they have friends and family members who are using it, and I dont want to demonize anyone who chooses to use those and back again it's your body, not my body, you do what you want with it, not by personal decision, because not living in your body, and I also think there's something really scary about The way that the struggle it's becoming normalised. I'm thinking of, though, is that Jimmy kimmel joke at the beginning of the oscars and a valid email, everyone being honours them back and just how quickly this has become part of our cultural conversation. It's injured when you look at their research around them back as being touted sort of similar, actually to how weight loss. Surgeries were first step. get it when they came out, but it's been touted. Is this like them, your college rag, unlike permanent weight, loss,

look, how much weight people can lose. But when you, first far when you look at how people liked the ring it at there's. A lot of people with the prettiest them veer side effects from the medication, but too we see that the miller to dieting there is wait regain over time. There's research that shown people start to regain the way they ve lost on ozone big. I want to stay, please don't put me a hundred percent say about one. Is there with after two years within two years, not a hundred percent on that one, but regardless people do start to regain way while they're still on it and of course, when someone stops taking them. commission. They regained the way that they ve lost, so I, lotta concerns with how it is being used and actually in and specifically with doctors. I found a lot of my clients. Their doctors have treated them in some pretty ikey weighs about taking this medication.

Almost like, while there is no excuse now for your way, we have owes mpeg when they have some very, very real concerns about why they wouldn't want to take the medication so tat it steadily. Something that I guess to summarize the something I feel kind of about it useless clinic term, yes, Rachel. Hardly author of gentle nutrition Non diet, approach to healthy eating will put a link to that will put links to lots of her stuff in show notes if you want to learn more rachel. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having made this is that lovely conversation thanks again to rachel? Thank you as well. To you for listening, if you ve got a moment, go give us some feedback on this, get fit sanely series also written river Is that really helps us grow? They show. Ten percent happier is produced by Gabriel's ackerman justine davy lawrence within terror. Anderson DJ cashmeres, our senior producer, thanks again to dj for all of us incredible work

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