The ten percent happier podcast dan harris, the hello everybody why you might fairly Ask em. I interviewing rain wilson, best known for his star turn on the sick com. The office playing I'd, shrewd, the hilariously disregarded paper salesman with less for power in a tragic hair cut why you may get my interviewing that dude about mental health and spirituality, because in real life, rain Wilson has spent many many years wrestling with religion, sobriety and marital ups and downs and he's a new book called soul boom, in which he cracks a lotta jokes and also makes

dead, serious case for a spiritual revolution, I'll explain exactly what he means by that In this conversation we also talk about the role of the high faith in his life. He explained with a high faith is all about. Why he was so miserable at the height of the offices popularity. I found that fascinating what he considers his greatest achievement in life, the importance of sport, dual pilgrimage and the ingredients of the perfect religion. We he insists, must include potlucks a bit more about ran before we dive in here he won three enemies for his work on the office. He owes to podcast metaphysical milkshake and he's got a new travel series on peacock called rain Wilson and the geography of bliss. I want to remind you of something before we get started, but today's episode, if you want to learn how to apply the wisdom from this podcast,

you dont, actually meditate yourself, yet or review, meditating. You want to go deeper into your practice. Our app can, help and in celebration of world mental health week, we are offering subscriptions at four Percent discount until June first, we don't do disco, of this size all the time and, of course nothing is permanent, so get this deal before it ends by going to ten percent dotcom, slash forty, that's ten percent. One word all spelled out: dot com, slash four zero for forty percent off you subscription our ready now with the show. We are oh, that quality sleep is important, and science shows that getting good sleep helps improve not just your physical health, but also your mental and emotional health too. Number smart beds, individualise your sleep experience with features such as adjustable firmness on each side, so you and your partner can each choose what works for you. And that automatically responds to your movements throughout the night, helping you to stay asleep,

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and while listening to a jazz playlist, you might be inspired to buy a relevant book for all of your interests. Amazon prime, has you covered with an endless array of options from shopping to streaming to saving it's on prime visit amazon dot com, slash prime, to get more out of whatever you're into. rain. Wilson welcome to the shop, thank you, Dan Harris. Thanks for having me on the show huge pleasure I am a long time found, so it's really nice to gets talk to face to face, albeit to virtually let me ask you this: what is a soul boom? I saw boom is a much needed spiritual reboot. I feel I leave that ass americans in contemporary life, have discarded so much about spirituality, because we have such a profound distaste of most religion that we ve

a throne, the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater And there are really beautiful and powerful spiritual tools to make our lives better and not only personally. By can our society, transform for the better, there are many things: don't ask about all that living to start with a definite. tip here. What do you mean by spiritual? I am talking about sciences that raise the dead interview, Thank you. Everyone thinks that they have to say. I know I can go there with you. Most pod castors would be like the moon, but it should be told. That is a super important question. You been at this a long time. You understand that cause people have very different definitions to some people. It does mean ghosts to some people. It means going to church on sunday and that's what's beer tool is and what it means to me. It's anything that has to do with being a human being? That is not of the material so

body. What my body want and need it needs food and drink right. Occasionally, sacks of my work it needs shelter once comfort and It's the kind of primal part of my animal brain wants a certain social status right, a social certain social capital which is very important to us human beings and to building societies. Putting all that aside, the as to the stuff, his spiritual. If my heart, it's my consciousness my soul, the light of my divine. Qualities of kind as humility, openness, compassion honesty all of those divine qualities that we all have within us. That is what spirituality us, but is the soul and the spirit, and in this Hey, you mean soul in the classic, really

just sense that there is some essence of us that is immaterial well I wouldn't say immaterial, but I would say that, yes, I believe from my own person, faith. Tradition, from a lot of study and reading that we are spiritual beings and we're here, the human experience as father They are t shirt famously said we ve got eighty or ninety years. If we're lucky can these meet suits and our reality or spiritual reality continues after bodies, fall away just as babies in the womb had one reality. That was our kind of. Reality and we're growing arms and ears and legs and eyelashes that we were going to need on this physical plane. we are growing spiritual qualities on this material plain for wherever our journey takes us. This is bad I by every faith, tradition now some will say. Well, you know

new tradition, you come back to launch come back. Sometimes you continue if you're wrong I've been enlightened. Sometimes you choose to it it is about a supper, but every faith tradition has some kind of idea that We are more than the material and our journey continues after death. In some way shape or form and I buy it. I'm in. Sign rain. All the way up. Having said that, though, my limited understanding of buddhism, a foundational principle, of the buddha and to say this pact is heavily influenced by buddhism era. One of his foundational principles was There is no soul, there is no self. There is no nugget of rain, hiding behind your eye socket somewhere. That actually thing to see, as you are inextricable intermixed with the universe. Yes,

there's a lot of different interpretations are obviously of buddhist teachings and what the buddha man and what the buddha actually sad verses. What a lot of his disciples sad- and I know that you ve done on your part- asked a lot of deep dives into into really the reality of the boot. I love what you're doing this new series about getting to know the eightfold path and the four noble truths on and the life of the buddha. So I'm no authority at all, but even if you believe and the idea of the boat that you have. a reality and the your body dies, and this arrived in life awakened cause buddha means the awakened one. If this awakened reality, part of yourself chooses to It can return to another corporal sense too, further the work of increasing compassion and reducing suffering so

however, that is seems assault me. It's maybe just a day definition. Here's how with changes in the high fades tradition. I'm a member of the high face. This oneness thought the buddhas talk you my and when you go back to the vague as a new punish jobs and the romantic thought of the reality. As we are all one, there illusion of separateness is inherent to part of the suffering there were all undergoing this illusion of separateness can be be described metaphorically, can the behind tradition as thinking about the ocean. So there is this credibly beautiful ocean and their waves on the ocean and were all waves on this sea. So are we, the visuals. Yes is a wave and individual think is the wave part of something much bigger. Of course, both of those things can be true, there's not a dichotomy between the individual and the collective, but I-

I ever closer to enlighten meant by really thing- those boundaries that separate us, part of our spirit, your journey and again you can find out in the bible with Jesus. You can find that with Mohammed. I the section and sole boom dan hairs. A look I happen to have a copyright here. I had a section about religion. in here I have a chapter called: hey, kids: let's build the perfect religion. Where I talk about finding the bits ups and downs in dad's of all the faith, traditions that we love the most and putting together in one jambalaya soup of a new religion. But before that I have a chapter: the fabulous foundations of faith where I, Scots, the universality of religion, because it's really easy to look at the differences but say between buddhism in Islam, which seem wildly different. At first blush in so many ways, but if you

that aside a little bed and dig a little deeper there are some founded, external elements that are one one hundred an alignment and said the bulk is not to propound any specific religious faith. It's to dig into spiritual ideas, so I want to say like ok, let's get some differences between the base, let's put them aside. Let's with, look at the universality and what we can learn from them I want to go into those lists, but later in this interview, just so people of more of a sense of who there listening to those who you are Q educate us a little bit about the high faith and its role in your life. Sure who I am is ridiculous, looking sitcom, actor so, for those who are just listening to the dulcet tones of my voice on the podcast app of your choice, but this particular actor was raised a member of the high faith and then

was really beautiful and cool. I left the by faith for a very long time. In my twenty in early thirties and started. My own personal spiritual quest during at the time, but for those who don't know the bahai faith is very accepting an inclusive of all the different faith traditions and that is its foundation there is only one god, this guy it is not an old, white man with a beard I a cloud obviously unknown, really believes that. But there is nothing that is escape deity or a persona or person, or like a demigod who can throw lightning bolts and find your parking spaces, and that's not what god is, but this unknowable force, that is beyond time and space that exists in this universe, in an infinite other universes anyway, that's all living. Have a good conversation, but this god force for lack of a better word.

Sends down divine teachers, to humanity every five hundred thousand years or so these include lord krishna. The buddha than ever My face Abraham, Moses Jesus the prophet mohammed and I also believe that there is a new what behind would call a manifestation not approve but a manifestation of god, because that's what these holy teachers are for how long. and by how allow lived in the night in century. In persia and the middle east is spent his whole life. In jail and being banished him orchard, essentially, like all of these spiritual teachers, do like, hey, we believe in love, that's persecute you and attack you and imprison you in crucify fire. So behind are also believers in the teachings of power law. name means the glory of god, The title I was given to him and

work for peace and love. And unity in lots of different ways, and we accept that central teachings of the world's faith traditions, soda I think I'm using this word correctly. I think that's sing, critic, impulse, tat, ecumenical impulsive. Let's combine different philosophies, world views that seems to be, in quite powerfully into your new book. Yes it. Does very much. The book is very inspired by the high faith in a lot of different ways. Is behind book I'm not trying to convert people the high. It's really not. that it's just a playground of ideas about spirituality and kind of shaking things up and getting people to think about it. talk about spiritual cons some fresh ways. You said you left behind in your toys and duties, have you come back to it and what is your practice or pay the patient look like. I have come back to it. I spent a lot of dark

aids of the soul in a kind of mental health, any of my own. I know that you suffer from an have suffered from anxiety I did the same. I had a period of time and my twenties wide crippling anxiety attacks that would leave me the floor. Sweating and shaking a lot of depression and addiction issues? loneliness and alienation and. As I had jettisoned my face, I thought- and I use this phrase before, but I love- and I kind of thought have I thrown. These spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater by june listening religion and I'm so miserable? Maybe there's a spiritual solution to what I'm going through smart waterways to your path, so I read, the bible and read the bug about and read the koran, and I read as much as the rig veda punish odds as I could under damn

really did a deep exploration in finally, after a very long period of time, at least twelve years came back to the high faith, so I am a member of the bible. What does that look like for behinds If no clergy, in my face, which I love theirs pre, serve more leisure, gurus or anything like that. It's a democratically elected and run organization, not dissimilar from like a power, twelve programme runs itself and I get up in the morning- and I read wholly writings from by writings at some point in time. During the day I say a special prayer similar muslims who bow five times to mecca behinds once a day turn there toward the holy land in the by faith, which is in israel in haifa, Israel, where power allow his buried and I say I bear wit oh my god that thou has created

to know the to worship, thee. I testify at this moment to my powerlessness, into I might to my poverty. And to thy wealth that there is no their god help imperil the self subsisting I read. A wholly riding at night- prayer and meditation practice that I do and- is a period of time in the year whereby eyes to a fast, a spiritual fast, similar to ramadan in some ways, and then I would framework to bring light to the world and make people laugh and make the world a better place and be of service, and That's what it is to be a bye. You go over the words of that prayer that you say how can you do this again so bear witness. Oh, my god, that thou hast created me. To know the and to worship, thee, so. I love at first sentence of the prayer because it said

it's and I think, Baha'U'Llah allows given it to aspire to safer. Very specific reason is the meaning of life. We have been cut. It- is to know and worship god. Now. Let me copyright there and I know, there's a lot of skeptical buddhists out there. What does that mean to known worship, god First blush: do mine, going off afghanistan, I loved, Whatever the opposite of mind is I love. It so at first blush you're, like too I wouldn't worship, god, okay, what does that mean? I'm going to read stories from the holy books and I'm going to say a lot of prayers and say: oh god, you're so great. I love you, god you're, so wonderful that that's what that means, but dig a little deeper. in the behind teachings the one aspect If god that is most accentuated, is that god is unknown. The unknowable essence he's called throughout my writings so where's, want to know the unknowable

is a dichotomy that I love is it really impossible? God is an unknowable essence! And yet we seek to known. How do we do that. through the arts. through sciences. Einstein was very much. You read his court on a journey towards trying to understand god through an understanding of the mysteries of the universe and cosmology by knowing other people. It says in the koran. No god is to know thyself or actually data I said from the krona- might be ideal, but to no, god is to know thyself. So as we to know those guys. I'm components of who we are. That's also getting to know god. Now, let's talk about worshipping, god by framework of worshipping god, the highest warm of worship, is service to others. Yes, our prayers and thereby faith in. You can certainly say god, you're, so wonderful, an Lamar has that wonderful book called help.

while the three kind the prayers. I love that title. Its help, which is you, can ask Hey god help me. My cousin is sick. Thanks witches praise and gratitude which you, buddhists, love. The gratitude grateful for this beautiful I am assured, and I get to talk to Dan Harrison. He know so much about happiness and wow is cash. Life is so were, and beautiful and wonderful in the universe is so magnificent. So those are there. Three prayers in her book. I love that book were dripping. God this service to others, also in the high faith, the crew, vision of arts and sciences is worship of god. So you be listening in your like an electrical engineer. Making the work better by bridge power grids right, that's worship of anything that is bringing well together using your creative

well to your imagination. Your mission of service to others is worship of gods. When you unpack that sentence- it becomes a lot more mystical and very gated. Then you would think that first blush yeah and I know there's more to get too from a prayer, but just to say. I think this doesn't really describe me any more, but I think there's an older version of me when I heard somebody reference god. It just sounded creepy, well you're describing is. At least to my ears in arguable me with their so much mystery in the universe. We don't there's just one universe and there's some mysterious animated force. But if not forces behind enmesh into everything. We don't know what just is how it arose and so, when you say get to know god, even though your gendering, god the key that you really talking. It seems to me your correct me about,

engaged with life instead of I engaging with the minutiae of Your ego, china, but heads with the mystery a little bit love that you used the word mystery two or three times because When I was feeling the same way as you did two ago ago, god Godfrey creepy, I thought about cod and adjust- was so patriarchal resist like this male energy, judge mental, it was like watching me like. Oh, I m doing these drugs and god is that their going you it's no good, you suck do knows drugs rain, as if god is like your uncle Carl or something I really really struggled for years. But I decided to go on a deeper die. A lot of people stop there, and I will pat myself on the back- forgive me I'm in every mountbeliard. I want

the dive deeper and try really understand what was meant. The word god. In fact, I have a chapter in my book called the notorious g o d digressing here but based on a television show. I tried to pitch called notorious g jihadi. I wanted to do a tv show about god, because I went on this quest. Looking for what god could we mean and I thought you'd be funded, taught the scientists and aid programmers and pygmies living in the bush and born again pendergast tools in new age think there's an atheists and let's explore this concept, is one of the most ancient concepts in human history and one of the most important and influences course of our lives, so I had a picture Dad can assess all real and we went out at episodes outlined and the whole thing. You got was turned down everywhere and the the thing I ever heard was from nets. And they said yeah, we're sorry

The topic is just too controversial, that is so typical of hollywood really netflix, so you can have drunk Wives of dallas throwing garbage at each other and the boom. Slip out and then someone it hits each other and vomits, and then they all hook up. That's, ok, that's perfectly fine flight entertainment, but an export god is too controversial. So that's where we are as a culture to say, no there are many serious jeffrey Dahmer and it was the number one show anyways thats a separate topic, I'm getting back to the word mystery that you use when I went on this journey read a lot of native american spirituality and I m, came across this idea from a lakota coda called call. oh come car, which is there for a higher power, which literally translates as the great mystery

You could say the great spirit, but also the great mystery, and as soon as I read that stop me in my tracks, like wow, I love mysteries, anathema mystery I cast my leg essential mysteries of being alive and there conception as far as I and my limited white man. Understanding of it is that this power that is beyond time, and space runs through nature, throw beauty runs through the wood. in the trees. That is the power of the ancestors, that is, on time and space like I said that can be felt for directions. In fact, their seven directions, theirs for directions than theirs up and down, and the seventh action, is in internal that This all loving natural force guess how they. Understand, quarter,

oh god and that nature is all a metaphor. So the sun is a reflection of the power like and strength of cod rains or that abundance and bounty of god. The spring time in the growing of the crops is how The gifts are given to us and it goes on and on so that was a big part of my ernie as well. There is more prayer, though, can you do the the ok? Maybe there is a second stanza yeah? I test fight this moment to my powerlessness into thy. Might to my poverty into thy wealth. That there is none other guy but help in peril The self subsisting So for me, when I say that prayer and in my work My meditation practice in my prayer practice, because I trying to both humility, is important, and I am naturally arrogantly entitled in its image For me, too, humble myself and

In remembering that this great mystery ass. All of reality in this universe, an infinite other universes beyond this one he for lack of a better pronoun as all powerful, and I am, and I'm weak and just being in that state. of submission that there is great mystery. And power in beauty in that act of prayer. Having a brain wilson talks about why he thinks we need a spiritual revolution. What exactly at means annie, this of spiritual pilgrimage. The dell technologies summers, sale event is high and with limit, quantity deals on top tech. Save

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I am extremely grateful to my therapist who helps me with all sorts of issues, including avoiding burnout which we've, as a team, been semi successful and sometimes I still fall into that rut. Old habits are hard to break, but nobody's offering perfection here, we're just offering better tools for managing the inevitable Vexations in vicissitudes of being alive, if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help. Try its entirely online just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licence therapists. You can also switch therapists any time for no additional charge, find more balance with better help visit better help, dotcom slash here today to get ten percent off your first month. That's better help hd p dotcom, slash. Have you. so you got back into the face of your upbringing elevate later in your life, It's to map some of the anecdotes,

you ve shared about your own mental health onto what we know about your career. Were you having of anxiety and depression. While you were on the office was this before covers? Put it in the timeline, I would go into the corrals, trailer and up on his couch. Ends, would come in and be like what the hell I'm be like Steve, I'm so anxious, I'm just kidding. We just did We have fun while we talk about- a deadly serious topics by that time, I was in, ivory by the time. I was deep in therapy and I wasn't dealing anxiety in the same way during those this year's? It's funny, though, because I had a recent conversation would be J Novak. We did a book event at the ninety second street. Why and someone asked whether you regret about the office in its funding. We both had the same regret witches, and this is very

much in line with your pod cast your audience and buddhists philosophy which is I did not enjoy. It it was there. I was not in the moment and drinking in my gratitude for having the greatest job ever so when I was on the office. We were getting Emmy nominations I was getting. I may nominations are making a lot of money. I was working with beautiful. people making great comedy terrific show it doesn't a better in the rain. Let that be tough And it wasn't enough for me- and I was like well- I want this other movie and I want a studio deal and I want to have a first look deal in how come on getting paid for this, and I want an that hungary ghost part of myself. was really activated, so I struggle with that for a lot of office and an and clean We spend a lot of really unhappy because I was

Trying to get the next thing or the bigger thing her why am I not as big a movie star, as will feral and jack black and ends comparing and all the thing as humans do and it just it wasn't enough, and I wish it had just been enough, and I wish I could have just been like I'm Can I just revel in these nine years of playing this amazing character with this amazing group of people I couldn't do it, so that's a simple of my anxiety of the spiritual disease that I've been struggling with. I will say this is a funny story and totally true All of a sudden, then my Anxiety. If I just address my anxiety, started flare up and talk shows, and I had a crippling

fear of going on talk, shows especially ones in front of like a studio audience. It was a little bit. And it was also a little bit understandable. Considering my background, I had this unnatural fear that I was going to freeze up and not have anything to say and people want a laugh. They weren't gonna like me, and I would repeatedly stay up. You can ask my wife. I would get three or four hours asleep. I would have diarrhoea, I would you be going over. Like my colleague what material the stories I was gonna tell on the talk shows, and it was blue and it took a lot of work into therapy. I did hypnosis. I did he de are to try and get to a point where I could do a talk. Show with kind of grace ease and without kind of crippling anxiety. I proceed. much of what you just said really relate to it. Just this may spear superficial place

again in the wake of the rather profound things. You just said about revelations the aegis share with us. just on on talk, shows I'd always ever been on when a late night touch. I guess I've been on the daily shook with down the daily show or a cold we're back in the day, it wasn't rehearsed. It was really extent prized at least as as the guest. I didn't know what they were going to ask me in advance, but I thought on the late night, talk shows if you went on fallon or whatever they actually, you went through a rehearsal beforehand, with the host et cetera, et cetera. So why would? be so different from being on a tv show, on the office. A script. It you see, you you don't do rehearsal you, don't you talk to a producer, a couple of days beforehand or dared to beforehand. And they ask you a bunch of questions and they ask you: are there stuff you want to talk about or do you have a funny story and they look at your social worse than they sell. I hear recently that you adopted a donkey when you tell us about that, and you do this banter with their produce

sir and out of that, the producer kind of like figures out. Oh here's funny story and here's the three or four things we talk about, and They go over with a talk, show host the day off without you italian brain can talk about his donkey and then ran to talk about his new showers project whenever so, is this weird hybrid, on a talk show, is what screwed me up as it's not memorized, but it's beat it out. They want you to talk about, but you can also improvise if you walk as those talks with us or so good, but that I was always through me and also the fact that their this big audience, but then a camera does on you like this big to play the camera and the host, or You played the audience and I like was like

because I come from a theatre like do I played it, but if you play the army's, then you're really big, because you're being captured this camera and do you improvise or do you go as I'm trying to remember the story and trying to make it as funny? As I told you when I told they were just never quite as funny and I would refer said and go over to my head over it and would get stale, and can I get messier plain and simple. I hear it in your retelling that the you re you just got coiled up into intense over thinking. Yes, the more profound thing you talked about, though, was the hungry, which I relate to men I ruined. I was in the news business for thirty years and basically ruined many of them years by doing exactly what you described this sense of insufficiency in comparison yeah. I really relate to what I think a lot of people will and just out of here yesterday and you may have spoken about it before, but how does that manifest for a news guys can like, while I want them anchored desk at seven p m wearing me ass, a better shower, so I was never in twenty four hour news I was on abc knew so there are very

few slots throughout the day, but whose either a job on good morning, america oral do tonight or nightline or three principal shows. Why did that? and get it and then on a big, slightly lower level like me, who was getting to cover what stories allotted that person send to Iraq and I wanted it and yet pretty intense and I did not handle it. Well. I didn't, handle the office stuff well and mostly it just made me a jerk and I added not hand on my marriage very well either. Can I was I would rage and I would get depressed and I was just talk myself in my career non stop and you know forcing lad. Good therapy in is kept workin out at and it got better- and I would say by and I want to set a date on about two thousand ten eleven. I was much much better and it's been just so much better since then, and the years since the Fears have been wonderful, like I haven't as an after I haven't really hit much that has really taken off that people mostly love the office

but I've loved it. I've played some great interesting roles and to be on our track, and I get to big action movies and I've got? do weird little comedies and films and play dramatic roles and it's really watching them and guess what I don't really care much. I get to play a great roles and that's why I got into this business. How did you to the point of not caring and by the way this is a sort of a healthy, not caring as a programme nihilism. How did you get to that lets? You call it healthy apathy, I know that a contradiction in terms, but how did you arrive at that? After being, as I said before, coiled for so long, I'm asking for free- nope her great I don't have I have one realisation that I made but Let me actually let me start with that. My main realisation was really had to do with the serenity prayer grandmother serenity to accept the things. I cannot change the courage to change the things I can't

and the wisdom to know the difference and almost to do list there's. No it already, but I want to pull it out. Say that grandmothers running accepted I cannot change what can't I change. I can't change if audiences like me, and other rules or not can't change if judd out doesn't want to cast me in his next big studio, comedy change your file studio. Network doesn't want to make a show with mere do something with me. It's completely My control, it's like I have chosen They have a career in hollywood, which is one of the most unfair crazy making upside down. This is in the world I have chosen to make my living there in what ways is like a giant popularity contest whose and who's not end. A lot of my movies that I try bombed and no one watched some men, that's fine, it happens. Sometimes two people to talented people,

and ass. All that's out of my control so day in day out. Whether someone is to make a move in with me whether someone wants to watch the indies on that I did Adam. I control the kurds, the things I can't. What can I do? I could be wrong scripts. I could be meeting filmmakers. I could be generating projects, I can have meetings with folks. I started a production company console pancake that was uplifting digital media company for years that we ran? I can try and make a difference in the world, and so that's why I put my focus now. There's were to it. The narratives twelve step meetings. It was therapy talking to my wife. It was meditation. It was surrender to god willing the prayer that we too about a lot of it has to do with my worst defects as a person which is people, pleasing scratch any actor and underneath you maybe a newsman to you get. I hope you like me and I had a lot of that people, please, in co dependence too in lead

that goal and the abbot it's been a long- it's been a long process, but how manner It's been such a relief. These last Twelve years have just been so nice I could sense it, the ones and zeros for sure curious? Did you and your wife make it through? yeah, my we ve been together twenty eight years, married thirty one. together our names, holiday, ryan, worn, she's, affection writer, she went to the higher riders workshop and sheep toils away on these and credit. Beautiful short stories that she publishes and talk about that like she work like a year on a short story and publish it and like One hundred and thirty seven people will read it because people don't really read, but she loves it and she's, brilliant and she's. Far more, a spiritual and grounded than me and we ve worked on a lot. Stuff together and throw lot by far. My greatest accomplishment is too, this marriage, keep it going and learn how to be a better partner.

To be more humble, and went intimacy is and its related to happiness. I think his intimacy, because When you have intimacy, you have a greater well being, but so many of us we don't learning intimacy, have to learn yourself. I d learn intimacy like from a therapist wages. I was embarrassing, but my parents didn't have intimacy than ever hoped They never talked about emotions to grow up This will give you had emotions everyone like ignored. You shunned you and pretended that the emotions didn't happen so I learn how to do that and it takes them doing pick some work aid- is a really important point. You're, making it actually my wife and I went to a couples, counselor pre pandemic, and he made the same point to us, which is that, even if you had great parents- and I actually did grandparents, who work touchy feely with us and each other all. Greatly. Nobody ever really gives you

your personal hygiene on any level, but you're not taught how to be a friend or co worker and certainly not how to be a good partner in a romantic arrangement. We learn from our parents and the movies and the move. Where which are designed to have a heightened drama, keep you engage, they cut out the boring, important stuff, the chopping of wood and carrying of water. That's involved in a romantic partnership. Like listening. That's an important one. Listening to your partner I'm not trying to fix some guys have that's that and see the kind of like the partners, will talkin I wonder if it is a guy thousands are caught, it must be a cultural kind of thing, like well, you should do do do do and you should do why? Don't you do blah blah blah? Why don't you fix it by calling someone so and just asking for a book like no one wants to hear that I was the king of telling people the best way to do things, and what do I know

but speaking of what does rain? No, let's go back your book. The thesis, as you explained it earlier, is that we need a spiritual revolution. What do you mean by that and how would it help so, great question and that's the thesis of the book. I talk about. There's two paths and spirituality, and I compare them the tv shows so the first path I compare to the show kung fu from the seventies. One of my, what shows of all time. For those who don't know, quite change came a chauvelin monk and martial artist. Who came? china to the old west, look for his brother, and he encountered these racist cowboys and angry people in greedy people, and he brought beautiful eastern wisdom, confucian, taoists buddhist philosophy and helped people long away, and there were some good asking along the way as well, so that

to me as a parallel to the spiritual path of most people walk when they engage with it, which is prayer meditation. I want to make myself a better person. I want to bring my peace. tranquillity that I generate in turn, lee and bring them to the world and when I grow in my own personal wisdom, etc, that personal spiritual path, the other show I talk about it. Work is star trek. in star trek, which I believe personal, because one of the most spiritual shows of all time and broad, I would hate that I'm saying that, but I really do believe that, because what's happened and star trek, there's been a big war on planet earth, and out of the ashes of that war. We ve learned how to get along, finally, we ve created a world federation eliminated income inequality we've eliminated racism. We accept of all different skin colours and classes and culture and celebrate their diversity, and

we ve eliminated sexism and then we are allowed to go out and boldly go into space and explore space ass. No man has done before. So. To me, that's the other aspect. of spirituality, which is communal, witches, How can I help you? world. How can I help make the world a better place? How can I relieve the suffering of others. Even the buddha talked about that a great deal, about. You work on your own suffering, an attachment and non attachment so that you can go out in the world and relieve the attachment and non attachment and suffering of others right and you that through increased compassion, so this is humanity's maturation, as evidenced by Star trek now allow the founder of the by faith, says all men? created to carry forward an ever advancing civilization. So

we all have a role to play. You play that role, damn beautifully pod podcast that has brought joy and duration and uplift meant millions and millions of people over the years. You sharing on personal story, this. Is your contribution You don't need a hog cast, foster an actor to do it. You can be an accountant. You can be housewife, a dogwalkers bus driver. It doesn't matter you can. Be in service in your work, you can help other folks, you can a grass roots movement, so spiritual revolution is looking at those spiritual tools and looking at that, systems through play in the world. There are so broken and some guided, the example. I use that still just stand me as our health care system is based on profit. Healthcare system should be killing, people who are set not profit, off of people's sickness. We almost one to be more set so that the end

we can just make more money so is complete. Backward we're not gonna fix with some legislation, we're not going fix it with a bill being passed in congress to don't the these bills in certain hospitals. In this certain ways, that's not in a fix the problem, the sister. Has been created without compassion in mind without basic human. spiritual integrity in mind and we need to invasion in some way, shape and form a transformation of these systems that driver contemporary society and said than done. I know a lot of people might be rolling their eyes me like a great idea. How do you do it so naive and pie in the sky and I'd get down I do try and address that some spiritual practical ladys? For that, but more importantly, we just need to be engaging in a conversation of aid. Can we use spiritual tools to make the work? the better place and to bring people together and here

the vision, I think one other of scepticism might come from folks on the left. You are like. We got a lot of people on the right who were waving around court, unquote, spiritual books as they try, I too, they take away my rights. So why would I want any form of spirit Well, in fact, affecting political discourse, yeah I'd get tat. We ve been bludgeoned with a lot of sense, actuality in religion? Lotta people suffer from religious trauma, religion itself is responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history. The list, just goes on and on I get it and I have been personally attacked from both left and right online as I've been talking about my book. my television show about happiness and from the laughter of here's another problem The timing pretend had he, god isn't gonna, save us in moralising and then from the right of you're, not saying that Jesus Christ,

is the way in the light and the only way to the fathers threw him when you're talking about like social justice issues, spirituality, being used to tackle social justice issues which can be distasteful both sides and again ok. I don't really care that's out of my control, but I do think that it applies to everyone, and I hope that sole boom reaches people who are fundamentalist christians and might get something out of it and people that are diehard marxist atheists. might get something out of it, because I'm a essentially just talking. Increasing compassion, and increasing service to others. Building grassroots movements at the same stuff I'm not comparing myself, I'm not comparing myself to same sex. They guardian, martin luther king, we're talking about it. It's just I just Sparking a conversation is what I'm about you, prince your new tv, show it held ring wilson and the geography of bliss? It's on peacock. You travel around the world to look at summit,

happiest places on earth and kind of an intersection between the show and at least one of the chapters in the book in one of the chapters in the You talk about the importance of pilgrimage forsaken spaces sacred places that you would make a trip to. Why is pilgrimage? so important. In your view and could a regular person who doesn't tv show operational lies this insight into their daily lives I thought this was a podcast only for people with tv shows it would be a small bodies but very valuable forever. Yes, all thirty, seven listeners yeah, great question, so in it wasn't in the geography of bliss. I hate that they added my name to. It should just be the geography of bliss which is based, you're, goin great travelogue I go around the world looking for what makes us happy, because maybe there are lessons to be learned from other cultures. Maybe we don't know everything here in amerika and

but we can learn something from icelanders or people in ghana, west africa or in thailand, which are some of the places that I got to go and didn't way the tv show, was a kind of a pilgrimage. I got you pilgrimages too deeply happy places and learn from somewhere extraordinary individuals that was amazing and I haven't after on sacredness ex cop sacred pilgrims. I took her pilgrimage with family to the high holy land, and I felt this holy. And sacredness everywhere I win and was so special This is in every faith tradition. You can do every tradition as some kind of pilgrimage, even buddhism depending the type of buddhism, maybe not strange kind of yoga, sport buddhism, but in actual buddhist practice there are many different kinds of pilgrimages that are undertaken, obviously mecca slum? The wailing wall,

church of the holy sepulchre there's many of these The holy places. In native american and indigenous spiritual traditions, it might be a local mountain tat or a burial ground or the sacred stand of trees, in the chapter again just raising questions. Why is it that we and our western culture have lost all sense of the sacred knowing is to be that only churches forsaken So again we have this kind of trauma around the word sacred o sake, for my grandparents meant the church? on sunday and everything was not sacred and of the devil. You know there's a lot of that going around, but I do think that we ve lost something by not considering more deeply how to create it spaces concrete, I'm in our home in our backyard. We can create sacred activities

Sometimes my family, you get together just make pancakes on a sunday morning at a time of joy and light and celebration and relaxation that has a sick. Feel to it, I talk about in the chapter the haiku who had bashful from it we'll japan, who would ernie about two shrines and villages and seek places and he would observe nature there, and then he would write icu any would leave behind and he considered the greatest haiku poet of all time and I about him in terms of these sacred journey because that is so beautiful me because it's an intersection of eighth, religion, spirituality, nature. It it be considered? Without? considering the natural world and art the making of art tree, so they're all three interwoven seamlessly by shows pilgrimage, is making heart

by reflecting on nature at these sacred and holy places, any leaves a poem behind at each one, and I was thinking. How could we don't have any? sir, but how could we bring that into our lives? What do you think? That's what he wants. A sacred these for you or how can you What do you do to bring a sense of something sacred and transcend in their eyes, holy into your life, it's interesting using the euro. I have a bit of a gag reflex at phrases sacred or sacred space, or wholly, and yet I realized that's counterproductive, I'm just saying it out loud. I also think if I'm hearing you correctly to maybe but in different language, when you talk about saying, activities are places its. Please tell me if I'm wrong about this activity or a location that elevates you out of the more noxious aspects of the ego, yes and

where there's a transcendent beauty connected with it that feels of the mundane rachel could be there. At the common denominator is ah I think it was a big aspect of it said So I do my best, which is not good. who infuse that into as much of my moment to moment life as I can. I find a meditations really helpful at that, because It's a systematic programme designed to wake you up out of the autumn activity in auto pilot and sleep walking. That is serve mine, sat in which most of us live our lives. And so the more I'm doing that. Just hanging out my son, and I can remember like cap, maybe not to check my phone right now say with literally any other human being than that at all becomes. If you want to use the word sacred sacred, and can you Generate are like I'm in a

crappy hotel room in Louisville Kentucky right now. Can I generate staring at this foe granted, top perched my laptop on yeah, why? think about all the hands that touched the slab of plastic but culturally, so much of our Colonel environment is based on crass materialism endlessly I need to get out of the car, go just like the next sky and get the bulk toilet paper. I wanna go down to the o reilly otto parts and get it boil filter like. We got a sharp, I'm not like anti consumerist, but yet at the same time. So much of what I see when I drive around, especially los angeles, goes well small town outside of LOS angeles, which is prettier, but it's all this kind of chain, stores in boxy, hotels and auto glass, grocery stores and parking lots and dumpsters and freeway divides and try

the quiets and we Culture haven't sacrificed the way there, We do? Business had an off its possible, but Do we really need to settle for that? We need to settle fur world in which we interact. It's just so cry, ass, an ugly, and I don't know I'm not trying to be a elite is about it, but I feel like we should be talking about that, but the more I think it's both in my opinion, that, yes, we should have more beautiful or inspiring transcendent places that are available to everybody, because that does uplift the mind and I think that it is possible to generate are in the face of anything I've rift on this before So I apologise if I'm being repetitive apologizing to elicit listeners here, but we just think about everything happened since the big bang hugh ocean of cause and effect. So what did it take in that chaos?

to land us at this moment. What did it take for that dumpster to get bill? and placed where it is as ugly as it is. As you drive around doing your shopping, what did it take for this foe granite tabletop to get made? You can look anything through the lens of cause and effect. The buddhist call karma see it as holier sacred or just holy shit, yeah yeah. That's well said, I struggle with that, and I dont know what the answer is, because we can just have beautiful, fountains everywhere and gardens everywhere. Can we or maybe we can- I don't know, but I have a chapter on death chapter on god, a chapter unconsciousness during the meaning of life like these big spiritual questions, our ones to ponder that ones to debate, and I think it's a really interesting conversation, because culturally. I do think that we have lost something by losing our sense of the sacred, the profound, the MR kohl and the holy and

I understand that distaste understand that, while coming. in the back into the resentment, that sounds like holy water into some cleric without with robes in. like antiquated ritual that has no bearing on my life and I Nature also is have you said the greatest source of awe and its. place that we can go to that is his. A grid, but guess what we're not treating nature as sacred were not climate change is the grandaddy of looking nature is unsafe, grand it's just something to be scooped up. spit out. Draw the elements. We from it. The way on nickel and copper and whatever, and then we just spewed detritus, back into the soil in the earth- and I know, sounds like a dippy environmentalist, but there is a spiritual disease in our culture, that causes us to accept that we nature in this way, plus one

brain is gonna talk us through an exercise where he creates the perfect religion, and explain why one non negotiable ingredient is potlucks.

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you include in your book and theirs. where you do this exercise of coming up with the perfect religion. Can you us through that, where you landed right, so I see I have this chapter called: hey, kids, forgive me, I'm looking at this chapter is call hey. Kids, thus create the perfect religion. Am I I also have a list that what the ten universal all religious faith and yeah here's some of the elements of it. Some of the elements are, these are somehow every aspects of religions that I would love to see? People gathering around and embracing one as the centrality of the divine feminine. If you do a little reading around spiritual, topics. You see that humanity up until ten thousand years ago. Religious faith was to around the feminine goddess.

And the harvest, energy and the mother earth And we could learn so much from going back to some of those belief systems, getting away from this kind of patriarchal view of god and again aggression and survival of the fittest? That has gotten us here, one aspects I draw on this list is the harm science and religion. I think there's. This is one of the greatest false I in religious and spiritual debate is How many times and people said. I don't believe in Why would I believe in science? Yeah, unable even science to and I believe in spirituality, I think they're, both ways of understanding life or both of understanding the world. One is processed, if to expand experience patients, a process of understanding the physics processes and data think of knowledge and here is how to live in it. Why were here? What gives us mean

what gives us per person. What other kind of mysteries of the universe might be there that we can't pick up on any kind of action enter algorithm, so profound connection to the natural world focusing a life on service. emphasis on music and the arts. The list goes on and then I end with potlucks. Why potlucks. Alex is one of the greatest inventions chris native american contribution to modern society, but potluck spring people together? Everyone likes a hot dish. Have one likes it After all, some everyone the vinegary being salads, those other stuff that doesn't get eaten, but people coming together, bringing something sharing together, communal table like its essence at its heart? A great potluck is one of the greatest symbols of

spiritual unity that exists. How often do you get to go to bed I do politics all the time. The are very good at pollux, so every month. Amount about luck, beloved he, does combined the social interaction we all need with a kind of levelling effect of sharing food, tat, everyone, my food, I would like sharing a great way to celebrate diversity. To give your with em families and there's just from around the world in your sharing what you love about their cultural heritage and celebrating the diversity to which is another one of my main tenets of the perfect religion is celebrating diversity. We are all flowers of one garden and garden is beautiful when it has a variety of different flowers and We need to celebrate, differ skin colours and different ethnic here

Judges and different music and different ways of being social and embrace as one of the strongest best things about being a human being and potluck. Do that, essentially but I really pressure you talking about publics that other aspects of your own life in this, precision end to watch this change from it sounds like in your office day. that there were times when you did inhabit the darker aspects of deutsche personality and it also. He was like you, ve wrestle. With an exercise some of these medicine. That's very quarter to see in the erika That's one reason why I wrote this book is. I think the essential question is like why the hell is the guy who played dwight writing a book and spirituality. The hell is this guy, but you know I've been My story for a while now and I share my purse no story because its away, in again to looking at spiritual tools and

spaced wisdom and it important to me, you know, had helped me and I want to share that, snow level, and I also think damn it's really friggin important- were in the midst of some of the biggest crises that humanity has ever faced: a mental health this among young people right now is staggering its horrific and guess what their our spiritual tools that can help here, this mental health epidemic you that's a lot of them on your part cast and look at climate change and there are spirit tools that can help us he'll are released, and ship to the natural world. There's the, of war. So these discussions is not like an airy fairy new Agee thing like oh I'll. Do you the class in a crystal and breeding are totally quote and think about it like there too, is that we need

can save lives, can bring people together. It can help humanity and help me personally, and it can help their peoples. I'm that's. Why talk about it. As a spiritual revolution like I wanted to have some impact. What I'm talking about? It's, not just! Oh here's, a nice little! Finally, how beside little I side we're almost at the time, but you on this question of impact. Being you touched on this a little bit earlier, but just to say a few words about how I think about it, and maybe you can tell me if you agree or disagree, I think fundamentally agree with you that many of the world's most intractable problems level up to psychological, emotional slashed to all problems in the human animal and it's going to be addressing those that will hopefully help us move the needle on some of the big problems and in terms of my own work and my own impact, I don't know, I think I will

we, humans have always had like really big problems, and I dont know that anything, I'm doing or anything, I'm a part of doing is going to level up to the two fixing them fundamentally and but I think if I and you can help individuals improve their own lives, actually really not nothing, and maybe it Adds up to some sort of larger impact, but even in and of its health Babies, listen this conversation and they decide to take it seriously. It will improve their lives in that does ripple out very well said. we know this from positive psychologists, that, as you strife to help others? You actually helps you live in a culture that oh I'll, be happier if I a crew more stuff and I gain more social capital, but in Surely your appear when you're, helping others and then

one of the great benefits of doing the offices. I can't tell you the people every day was like. Thank you for this show you made me laugh. I was going through such a hard time laughter important? Thank you for the stories that show got me through covert, etc, on and on I will say that two things could you asked about this hatred? was build a perfect religion to Ellen, I just want to bring up which I think go along with this one. Is that we need to create a new mythology of humanity, the old mythology, real quick. As that there's different tribes, we all hated each other. We battled, we went to war and it was survival of the fittest baxter dog, eat dog, the best man win, don't tread on me. Every man for himself and survive were the fittest strongest one, the worst aspects of humor The aggression contest adversarial, elysium, there's a different mythology. We hoped each other. We,

he cooperated with each other, we traded with each other. We learned from each other over the course of human history. There's a different history book that can be written on new mythology of humanity that we grew together we grew wiser, together with we ve helped and at each other and humbly learn from each there's cultures and traded, and this is another aspect of who we are not just these self centered animals as part of who we are have to acknowledge that, but there's a whole their part of who we are as well enough, this by saying another? One of the take ways I put at the end of the book that It is necessary for a spiritual revolution. We addressed a little band which is creating joy far, drain. Joy quashing cynicism. We have to believe that we can make a difference and we can change things it so important if we live in cynicism, pessimism, and I will never change

aren't gonna change and the forces of darkness, the voldemort win. The of sore on win if we're as domestic, so we have to hearing joy release, joy, give joy to others. I believe that we can make a change- and I think, that's crucial for spiritual revolution couple things to savers, one I'm one of those people who feels like you performance specifically in the show generally has been a pretty significant value. Add in my life and definitely during covert I'll. Thank you Thank you. Another thing to say is that I just really agree with do and pretty much everything you said that you can look at the condition through the lens of original sin that we are just we start broken and the only way out is through something way beyond us, and- and maybe that's true- but I my view is closer.

what you described, which, as we have it all, we have the full catastrophe available to us in our repertoire really shady aspect. and really amazing aspects, and there are bugs in the human software. But there is a huge which feature in your articulated, which Is that I think this is if there's a way out of our problems. This is it doing good, for others is of benefit to There is a massive feature in The human operating system and, like you said wise, Dwight shrewd have any right to write about virtuality same could be said to lock up sea level network news man what the fuck am. I do have my humble view that asked active. The human operating system is the way out, that's beautiful man, and that's it just a great place to start boy. How do I start a spiritual revolutions like well. they want to others, and serve others, and it.

your life happier better just start small bring a hot they should casserole over to a sick. Relative start small build from there, it start To become more and more What in your life- and you start realizing- I can't really live my life unless I'm doing so to others and we can start and they will snowball before. I let you go. Can you please remind everybody of the name of your new book and also the name of your new tv show and where we can find both the book. Called soul boom. Why we need a spiritual revolution and can be found. anywhere you like to buy your books, please support Independent bookstores, or to reign wilson and the geography of bliss abuse. May eighteen, twenty twenty three on the peacock streaming service home of the office? How about it synergy in which I travel the world looking for happiness. Is it really damn you're, gonna love the show it's really uplifting and fond and funny goofy, and it just makes

feel warm and makes you appreciate. Other cultures in its canada antidote for the times were living in soil. People check it out rain such pleasure. good on you for using your platform for such a positive said I could get a minor television, sitcom actor and a sea level minor news man having conversations about transformation, spirituality and happiness. Look at us, that's great, Spend such a pleasure. I've been a huge fan of what you are doing for such a long time? I'm glad we were able to make this open and thanks for taking time to talk with me today, will appreciate it. Thank you to Wilson. I always tell you, I don't know who they use in this case, but the conventional wisdom is that you shouldn't meet people who are you're heroes, rain did not. Let me down at all great great to meet him thanks

well to everybody who listens to the show if you've got a minute to do us a solid go rate us and review us that always helps, and thanks finally, to everybody who works so hard on. This show ten percent happier by Tara anderson, Gabriel's, ackerman, justine, davy and Lawrence Psmith deeds, kashmir. As our senior producer moorish nighter men is our senior editor and can be regular. Is our executive producer scoring and mixing by Peter bonaventure of ultraviolet audio and we get The theme music from nick thorburn of islands will see you all on wednesday for a brand new episode, we're going to to fan favorite doctor the watermark marquez she's an anxiety expertise that, with a new book with a three part plan for transforming anxiety something way better. a prime members. You can listen to ten percent happier early and ad free on amazon music download the amazon music tat today

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