This is the ten percent happier podcast cast dan, hence hallo, my fellow suffering, bees. How we do in the phrase get over yourself- is often used in a flippant way, but I think it's actually speaking to a pretty deep human need to get out of our heads to get off our own backs to get out of our own way to be blown away. In fact, the greek word for ecstasy translates to standing outside of oneself at a fundamental level. This is what buddhism is all about seeing through the illusion, the self the self is the source of so much of our offering we spend so much time, building it up and defending it when in the anders really thing there, or at least not as much as we might think, to be clear in a lot of people get confused about this in buddhism?

we're not saying that you don't exist and we obviously you look in the mirror. You'll see yourself, it's just that if you can learn to take her thoughts in your emotions, less personally, you will be less owned by them. You can lighten up, so many buddhist practices are designed to help. You unlock this. source of self centered suffering in today. We're gonna talk about a foundational buddhist list that can help you get there. It's called the five aggregates and I won't go to a detail or any detail really right now about the aggregates, because our guests the true dharuma nerd he's gonna hold forth with great eloquence. Pascal o clare has been immersed in buddhist practice. And studies and ninety ninety seventy now teaches retreats all over north america and he's the co founder of true north insight and one of tea, and I guiding teachers. I had never met pascal before this, but I found him to be utterly delightful.

Just to say this episode is part of our end of the year deep cuts series where we dip into the archives to find some of our best episodes that we think can most effectively address any holiday, stress or madness, you may be feeling the holidays are coming up and maybe you're planning some travel with your family or friends too great time to check out via tore to consider booking some experiences the share together and makes a memories fight or has over three hundred thousand workable experiences and something for everyone. Everything from simple tours for extreme adventurous plus via Oars travel experiences have millions of real traveller reviews, so you can have. It permission, you need to put the best activities for your trip. I went to denver the little man recently we scroll through a bunch of possible activities on via tore would get some other trips coming up in the future and its great to get a sense of what we want to do and then maybe even book some experiences through via tor

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Ten percent happier is brought you in part by amazon, prime, for whatever you're into amazon prime offers a range of services like prime video, amazon, prime music and prime fast free shipping, I've been here in rhyme video to watch some of my favorite rock n roll documentaries and of course, I use prime for shopping for all kinds of things. I've got a pretty gnarly. Sneaker habits of private comes in Andy This is just one example of many ways that prime can make life a little richer from shopping. Just remains a saving. It's on price visit. Amazon dotcom, slash, prime get more out of whatever you are into. Pascal out of clare, welcome to the show a thank you so much. Thank you. People at home can't see it but you're wearing a fetching sweater that has a

scarf knit right into it. This is high technology. I put my best to look for you, then yeah. Well really excited to have you here. I know how to talk about this buddhist list. The five aggregates, which I am fascinated with its a great way to deconstruct reality, Let me start with a sort of foundational question, which is: why would we want to deconstruct reality in this way? What's in it for us? Yes, yes, great question, yes and thereS. Many way we could deconstruct reality. Just by the way are we could divided in two say: what's sight of me and the physical round. We could divided three past present future, so theres many wasted deconstruct reality we could say, but this particular way. I find very useful because in each of these five aspects there

is the way that we get in trouble that we get the particular way we get stuck sets a good way to study, stress, confusion, the suffering and the end of it, so each aggregate is and that the technical term, I believe, the polly term, the ancient term from the indian sub continent is scandal or power el, the buddha liked to talk in agrarian terms, which may not be so resident now, but they were super as an advance, because people did a lot of farming back then, and so you could think of these aggregates or parts of our experiences, a pile of hay or manure. Whatever probably manure would be more useful here, and these are piles of conceptual hang ups- that hook us in in a way that prevents us from seeing things accurately. Am I in the right action here with this word salad. Yes,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, pile it works for me, the pile, but you know the way I think about it. Then it might come from jack kornfield them that actually sure, but I definitely think of them as not the five aggregates, but the five rivers the five rivers of things happening so away to think about. This is just even as right now as your listening to me, or anybody at home is listening to this punk cast this five types of things happening: once and so, if you want- let's look at it just now- inexperience as its happening sufferings. There is, though, with the first act with a river running through. It could say the river of materiality it as you are, there does stations in your, maybe your, but on the chair, this Stations in your hands, so there's a river physicality materiality running through right. It's happening right now

could put part of it like the sounds. The sounds waves that are coming to your ears, so does a river of sounds, and so this is one river that is running through right now, the other that is happening is the river of pleasure and displeasure. If I say something that is pleasurable to your ear, you're gonna next, hence pleasure right in the moment, if I say something that is either fusing or disagreeable so there's always fluctuation. That's why I call them river, because it's always changing the breath is happening right now. Coming in coming out. So what we called the body the river of different sensation. It's a river also of pleasure and displeasure that is happening and, and other thing that is happening on top of it at the same time here is that this the river of making sense of what's happening, so does not only lets say this sound waves happening. There's also makes sense. You understand something of what I'm saying

So you know if there was not this river of making sense of the world, it would make sense there's a way that the mind is always organizing organizing what is seen what is found? What is heard, and so that's it third river, then there's another river of intention I find, so far the city, then I have to call myself to you bet- and so as are listening to be right now in anybody else's. Listening to this does not only a river of making sense. You know a series of sense that it makes there's also- intentioned intention, maybe to listen. I think I can see it. The way you listening to me that the sum happening. The mine does intention to listen and maybe somebody else at home, as has the intention now to cut the carrot or banana. So what is it to be human?

it's these rivers of intention does one left that I didn't name: shied name it now, yes place. Yes, the fifth. One and maybe we'll be able to come back on all these. We have time the system, is a river of consciousness. So all these things are recorded that received the sensations. Pleasure, the meaning. Tensions can be known, and so this is What we're doing just now, we are actually deconstructing where our immediate experience into parts ends yeah. It can be fun to do and so maybe one other wages to explore this. Just for a minute, if you allow me, I would suggest we Look around the room if we just move our eyes around the room. with so many things up material round. You know, I see a window, lamb, drier books, so there's these

arms that I see- and maybe I see- flowers for example, and a pleasant to me- the flowers that turn my partner me so does a feeling that comes with it is not just like collars and form. It affects me in a way said, is happening right now is moving my eyes, and I recognise things he would be bad. If I didn't recognize window lamp things like this, I need to organise the world, so this is happening at this time and so what This is happening, while did the intention to move the eyes around is happening for me and all this is being known and in a way. It looks really. The word comes in french here and a day like not so important yet but slideshow. Yes, yes, so not so important, but as I was saying earlier in every aspect of what is happening of these five aspect, this something that can happen that can lead to confusion afflicted

motions disappear it meant getting trapped in my conceptual world, all kinds of things can happen and that and not only when I look around the room, but it happens in my relationships happens in my own mind, and so that's the kind of play or practice around. This is too deconstruct to find out how I get in trouble with each one of these things. I heard this sad teaching, maybe off more. twenty years ago and it was kind of intellectually interesting to hear but also it ignited. Something in me like I want to actually go closer to get intimate with these different things and to see how I was getting in trouble and experiencing a deuchar. This word disparity word of suffering in feeling of separation in them

the time in my life, I was not aware of this and was not aware of how I was perceiving in conceiving reality. It was like yet unconscious and it was revealed to me one time when I was in the doctors office, as I was twenty five years old back in the nineties and I'm in the doctors are facing. The doktor tells me hey pascal something going on it's not good. There actually gonna die you don't have an immune system, anymore and you're hiv positive, not only are you hiv positive at this point you have aids there's no more immune system that works in your body, so I was sitting there and what happened? You could say one interpretation of this is that there was a spiritual experience. Everything I thought was solid crumbled like youth half life, that I thought-

was permanent and solid. Suddenly, my spiritual teacher of the time of at that moment the doktor was telling me everything. you thought was solid and reliable and stable actually is and so that for me, I was sent on a quest and a big quest because, These things were revealed to me that what I thought was solid and permanent was not, and the buddha when he talks about this first aggregate a form the body material wealth. He compares it to farm. He says by the side of the ocean or along the ganges river or any river foam dangerous shape with every wave with every wave that call she's on the shore, the phone there changes does nothing to its end then show its changing its ephemeral, its there's nothing inside of it. Well, the body is the same.

There's nothing solid in the body, and so, when I heard the stitching ivy recognize. Oh, my god, that's exactly what the doctor told me there in the year in his office, he told me what you thought was solid and permanent, like the body is not there's going to be death. Health is not solid, either there's going to be disease, it's coming it's there, and so I think to me that's how, when I heard the teachings of the the particularly these teachings, how it was. How would you say in english, striking and so I recognize there was something true in the body as foam and then he talks about that say just stick another one of these aggregates or rivers perception how we perceive things he talks about mirage, then I thought this was so incredibly right on so right on high perceive

and see or interpret things to be their little different, so that matched my experience of you. No health buddy you with her the stability of life. Suddenly, he was saying to be that I took a very personal. Your seemed to me: hey what you perceived a solid in the way is a mirage. It appeared like you owned health, for example, but life revealed to you that you don't own health health is, Conditional when the conditions supporting health are there, there is health and then, when something comes in and you know with different condition, and health suddenly shows that it's not that solid or for that matter democracy our peace, and so when I heard this especially this,

image of the mirage to talk about how we perceive things. I think I got ter hooked too, but this practice and buddhist philosophy he answered a question. I was gonna, ask you, which is. He talked a lot about We can get in trouble if we're not seeing the aggregates for what they are and the answer is we assume things are more reliable and permanent, and then we set ourselves for suffering. When we find out that yeah you're gonna die, everybody knows gonna die yeah, you think you're, perceiving things accurately, but maybe you're not can be hard news to hear. But if we're walking through life understanding that everything is in aggregation. There is no core nugget of you that is permanent, it's hard to see, but it's better to see it than to be surprised, but he had because the dumb

side of you know making all these things. So I in mind, because that's what we're talking about constructing this kind of sharon averse, solid permanent south. You know them. Bad side, of really buying into this solid ridge. the eye. Is a sin an impression and experience of may be separation, no yeah like. You feel you might feel that you were in ones. the reality. You know inside the little consciousness inside this body, and there is the side, environment is a separation and Separation very stressful because its viable you know this man, one side in the world on the other side, its viable, but it's they require a lot of work. I'm gonna have to be made the aggressive. At defensive, our strategies that so with the sense of I that is very solid that we might

I have this way of conceiving things. It comes with loneliness feeling of separation and because we make it solid, this kind of sense of I it might come also with fear fear of death. Fear of what's going to happen. When I die first, it looks to me. I don't know how you feel about it, but to me from that view of solid permanent, south death seems totally weird It seems like a nonsense and insult either it doesn't match it doesn't fit with my conception of reality in the way that I feel that I so exist and its also the expense I have when somebody that I know dies It's so strange that they existed they so existed. There were so in existence and now you're telling me that they dont exist anymore,

This is so strange, it doesn't add up so death, a strange and then after death. If there's a solid, I'm disappears. It's totally stressful. if it continues its also stressful, because I don't know in what form it's gonna continue, and so here the buddha seems like very gradually very method, tat dick cleats, some words like this methodically thanks, but of dinner. So the very many sided way the british saying hey, let's start to question this little bit I'll, give you a few different, forms to do this. So, let's removed the lands. You know the glasses of what I want, but I dont want was his mind. What is not mine and, let's put on let's say the

lands of the five aggregates, and let's look at experience in this way, and what we might find is that there is constant death in a way constant appearance and disappearing the things you know. The body sitting feels away an hour later. The body walking physically little different way. In my mind, is the same body, but inexperience, it's a completely other buddy the mind. the mind. That is happy the mind. That is sad the mind that is confused or shameful or arrogant. I think it's my mind, but when I look at it more closely, I find such different event phenomena textures you know, and so. That's how I understand this invitation of the five aggregates of five rivers of five aspects of piles. You know the buddha saying come a little closer to this look at it in actuality, while it's happening and let's see how it behave,

lives and we'll find a lad of comings and goings, and this might release the heart on mine from identification, fusion, appropriate, patient wrongful run full appropriation laughing at wrongful appropriation because one of the courts I love, have higher through Joseph, but he has this quote from some monk who says so it's the effect of when you think of anger. As your anger, that's a misappropriation of public property. Yes, it's the public domain, but yeah. I've heard them also said this, and you know when we talk about this, it seems little intellectual conceptual, maybe fun fun to think of, but it is not clear that we and grasped the relevance of this unit the importance, the I want to see the seriousness without being too serious about it, but you know that this tendency that we have to appropriate to define

two year identify with all the events that happens in the body mind. This can lead stress and we know one day we look in the mirror and suddenly youth is dripping dropping. To some fearing crumbling. You know, and if you'd defined so by youth are intended, and then you have one night without sleep. You know, but I'm supposed to be these two little intelligent and now I'm not at all, and what I find fascinating and liberating is to watch how these different aspects of our lives, how they're changing how their conditional. My opinions, for example, is just another thing. That I can the propria my opinion and it's something I heard you say, may be on your bud. Casta one of your guest unites, suddenly becomes my opinions may happen, Until I hear somebody, I say something more clever, and then I just hook up on that one and then a fight for it I opinion is you know in two weeks later it's probably gonna be little different and there's this constant appropriation, I imagine,

sometimes then that, like a monkey jumping from rope to rope or whatever that, where this for that thing they jump on. You know this constant appropriation. Now, I'm my back pain. Now I my opinion now, I'm my buddy now, I'm you know I just keep identifying like this and I dont notice. If I dont look, I just think there's a permanent compact, solid ongoing. I yet did sir. series of moments of appropriate, nor identification? There was a film back can't remember which wine it said, there's a little character. It said: maybe this disney movie or the lion or something like this, this little character and when they run away from some danger in the little animal? In the

google is running and used. It keeps saying everything he sees. You know this is mind. This is mine. Oh, this is my branch. This is my fruit. This is my river. This is my mountain specific, linda erratic. Exactly like us, we keep identifying identifying to what two things that are constantly changing. A team disappearing. Peering this I dont, know how many lives I had since the small I think that I know I'm going to talk to you. You know proud of it suddenly you're doubtful that I have anything to share. It's suddenly something else. All these emotions, they're, not mine, they're of the public domain. You know if I take them so personal and made them me. It's gotta be painful, but I recognize us dear Joseph says. You know how his fear his pride. He is doubt here's peace, his joy,

something so beautiful to assess how much mew gets liberated. It seems its things that get liberated fears liberated but does sphere thing speaking here. Let me ask about you told that harrowing story of being back in the nineteen these in getting the diagnosis you appear to me to be thriving from what I can see through this. little. Video screen on on my computer monitor, but I'd be curious to check and to get the answer from Europe how're you doing, and how You currently relate to the. Negotiable prospect of dying yeah? I think I mean you know isn't because if I went to the doktor and suddenly there was a diagnosis, a situation like more will he revealed that through this practice, and I'm answering you the most honestly, I think I can like I'm in answering you a button. I'm seeing in myself is

I see it see like I'm getting really close in a way to death. A certain kind of death in a when I'm actually aware, mindful generously, attentive or a little bit more tend to end that I see moments disappear. I see a mine state disappearing, a thought disappearing, a breath disappearing and an idea disappearing. I saw these things appear and disappear. It seems like a very slowly I'm getting used to it. six of dying of losing things- and I think it's really wise of the buddha because is inviting us to do- this right now, when it's not that important, when I'm moving around doing things around the apartment. Take notice how things disappear the time pascal, because one day something important will disappear. That's when I hear him say like I want you to this noticing that things are very unreal.

a boy in this way, unstable intermittent are now what's the word that you use for the flame of a candle flickering flickering that such a cut of a buddhist word to use not flickering the flickering, isn't it True, like sometimes I think, somebody's as something against me, you nor is ass bad intention and later it's revealed that now I just didn't understand what I said and suddenly, but my point of view changes in the once Can one you data when new information and in another world. I'm not in front of an enemy anymore, I'm in front of the friend and dying it just vanished like this, and so to me. There's something about this about the dying process of things. Things are dying all the time and we can notice through the small things, and maybe in this way either develop some equanimity, some balance of mine or some to meet talks. Also about

about appreciating things because their ephemeral, they're, just passing through the precious because they're gonna vanish in it talks are so about compassion, so relate others, a lot to qualities of the heart. Compassion to see that my opinions changes opinions of the the others changed severe, unstable things, change like this all the time, the something tender rising in that for me- and I think you know it applies to the aging process, to the not knowing. What's gonna happen with the To talk about this disease, I have a virus. I have its dormant right now. Medication is working, I'm in the west bank. As to medication. I live in canada, maybe a good country to have access to healthcare, and so it's a little bit hidden for me right now, so that you know it seems like doktor is another

as I say that I have as much chance to diet eighty five, then maybe you have or anybody else so the prospect seems good, but we don't know what can happen at any moment, so that death is a little hidden for me right now before the medication came ended, the cocktail therapy was not hidden, it was were dying you know, you know in the eighties and night many of the nineties first half of the nineties it was right in my face all the time when it was on my body that was dysfunction. getting dysfunctional in all kinds of ways, but now its citizens hidden, I'm glad to hear that yeah coming up task, owls favorite aggregate, but after this

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see the boys in the boat. Only in theatres, this christmas get tickets at boys in the boat movie, dot com, dover get. If you look in the top, somebody do life better and twenty twenty four, and also, if you're looking for a last a gift, you can get a gift subscription to the ten percent happier app. You can visit ten percent dot com, slash gift, that's ten percent, or one word spelled out dotcom. Slash gift to snag one for your friend or loved one. I think what might make sense to do is to walk through the individual aggregates to really tariff approach it with a little bit of the methodical nature that the buddha himself tended to muster. So what do we started? The first aggregate in and they go from there, how sets up

yeah? So the first one of these rivers running through is the river physicality of form, or we could think of our body, and with this it's right there. You know my body like check with you. Is that the way you feel about it? The way you sense it would be very natural if there was an kind of appropriations in defining of south and the east being very methodical talks about four ways that identify with things, and so, let's take the body. How do you feel then? Do you feel that the body and it my data for views might happen at the same time, but I do feel that the body is yours is your body. It depends the know, I'm in meditation. I can start to see that it this aggregates. I can see it's just a flow of since it

since, however, if somebody stands to close to me. Well, I'm walking through the streets of new york city. It really does feel like personal violation. That's great! That's great with you saying, because. showing the conditional nature of our perceptions. How we hold it is and depending on the mind, stayed the situation, the environment and I like this because in their this fluidity, what I am hearing you says this fluidity and my sense of how I hold the body, and so it can be that it's my body or the view at the buddha talk about is like it's either mine or its. I, I am the body. It's mine or another view, is its in me, so this very simple: it's either. You think something is yours. It's you it's inside of you or your inside it and you're, saying to me. Well, it can change. I notice that sometimes it's just maybe a field of sensation

when I'm in meditation, you know expansions and contraction of the bell. You may be what tingling and I love this in meditation. When you sit the first time before you ve ever meditated you're like distant my body- I mean it, it's mine, it's me, then you sit and if you stay there and a little bit at some point, they would not so much my hand. Maybe, but tingling is happening. Suddenly the perception changes its very informative. For me, when I that my perception can change, even if I'm still sitting there in the body, I can view it in a different way, and so what happens with tat, the body or material form, so it could be things physical outside is that we tend to either think there

Cars are not ours and we can do this with the partner. It's my partner and we can have ownership to claim something. It's good if we do it with new ones, like all for the time being, it's my partner, but some. So make things absolute like it's absolutely mine and then, when the day the person says I'm leaving, you suddenly were like oh you're mine, your my partner, well, you're gonna, have to adapt your perceptions here, because it's not true anymore, and maybe it wasn't even true two weeks ago, but I was it's getting ready to tell you so that something is mine, my child, my car, my Oh it's tricky. No, ah, it's very ricky. This is very sensitive. What I'm talking about when I think my child, my partner and his absolutely mine and the wisdom seems to want me to acknowledge in some ways

that things are changing the condition of the could change. They will change and how can I all this should I owe this with rigidity, her with some kind of fluidity, like your sense of the fluid sense of by its mind, and it's not mine, it's my legs, my mobility- and maybe it's not I'm anymore. So this and since we have then are functioning now, their functioning. Only while, and so we want in a way to reflect on this prior to the event happening so that we can go through change more smoothly. That's why I find this very rich to think of how I appropriate material form? I remember one retreat than there was one person who at the queue- and they was asking one of them monastic swear leading to retreat. The person said I own a restaurant. So that's the first second,

form I own a the physical restaurants, my restaurant and somebody comes every week and they do brevity on the window of my restaurant, so. What about this? There was a question to the monastic and the monastic said well that's? Where wisdom and putting it in my words now but the monastic said that's where wisdom becomes really important here, it's your restaurant! Yes, on a conventional level, it is absolutely but it's also not your restaurant, because you cannot on something physical, absolutely you can on it. As long as everybody else agree, we went to the liars assigned papers. Whatever you do you own. Everybody agrees. It's a contract, you on the restaurant, but if wire starts it does. In some countries we know, and suddenly you can find out that it's not your restaurant, absolutely

I find, this very intriguing and worth reflecting on things are mine yet they're, not absolutely mine? How can I hold that gracefully carefully carrying me, and so the monastic was saying: if you really think it's absolutely yours, you're gonna suffer. But if you understand that yours and not yours, maybe there's gonna be less grasping clinging to it and it doesnt resolve it everything, because the person with the painting-

I come back next week, but the understanding can be partly liberating. Oh yeah, it's not exactly absolutely mine to me. It removes the kind of possibility of the tantrum, so that's a little words for the forme de ser. First to aspect of experienced, it were invited to come closer to be intrigued by investigate the become attentive to our relationship to it and how it behaves. There's something also that comes to mind that I find remarkable. I heard this a couple of decades ago:

It's the buddha reportedly saying, there's a difference that talking about this aggregate of form he sang dear the earth element the earth elements wise beings, they recognize it when they see it to experience it earth the hardness solidarity, they recognize it and they stop there. The unwise beings, they add a little bit and that creates suffering for them when they expand the earth element. They recognize it like the wise beings, but they go a little further than they say it. Mine, it's my and then they are in trouble how they in trouble. They recognize, while they're sitting that this pressure on the butt and instead of stepping right there pressure on the but they make it might

and from there is born the fear of death. What is gonna happen to me, my body, my earth, I'm that I'm in sight of this what's gonna happen to me. And then the practice of careful attention, loving aware this satin polly mindfulness, we stay calm and then maybe we can clarify bit thing. So it's not mine has just public domain pressure pressure gravity names. Thing that is more of the public domain and gravity and we make a personal and then we build. We conceive the something very fascinating for me that happens in our experience is that what we experience like pressure on the bar tingley nor a sound or taste, what.

Expanse, very natural, that it would happen what we experience we perceive. We explain in some way or recognise so what we expanse we perceive and what may perceive we proliferate on and so that what happens? Does he the wise being. They sit on the their cushion or the chair and they're, not as just there's gravity and for us we go a little further. We what we experience we perceive and then we proliferate we add on. We embellished we built on, and so this is my not just like. Oh there's gravity the me sitting here. What am I gonna do later I to go over there later and then we built a whole story and we're entrenched occupational by that story we live in that story and meditation is to come back to some very, very immediate body, sitting. Breathing, it's a really

conciliation we renounce into the union. The assessment that we get kind of trapped in. What? If this happened to me later, what will happen to me later? Will I experienced this later than we feel fear and a lot of things happen from that construction and then the practice of meditation I could be under pressure on the chair, but it can be a son in life to keep things very simple here we are here. I am standing only. I am stressed what, if it continues, what if this person says that to me, what am I gonna? Do others, embellishment, making us further and further way from reality and further and further caught into south in engaged. So that's aggregate, slash river, number. One number two is often referred to as feeling tone tell us about that. Yes, so this is also something that its constantly happening itself.

Now, as we speak, and sometimes it's more obvious than others, but that something that is part of our experience, other time saw with anything that we experience It could be something seen something heard something tasted it could be a thought. It could be an emotion with anything that we experience. It comes with it, some kind of pleasure about it or displeasure or the absence, the neutrality of it. If it wasn't there, I think we wouldn't even recognize life, so some taste with pleasurable some taste displeasure, this some things we hear we like hearing them, some things there on pleasurable to think of, and many things, are they don't stand out in this way? The neutral

many of these moments and in breath, for example, for many people breath. What's that I am, I got it so pleasurable to breathe. Sometimes it might be. Sometimes displeasure move, but very often may be, for many people breath is neither pleasant nor unpleasant its new. in this way. So this the buddha, oh, my god, so important central in his teaching, and it makes it one of the aggregates it in puts it in almost all the lists inviting us saying: hey dan, hey pascal tune, in here. there's a lot of trouble possible around this. If we tune in to these expand, of pleasure, will notice how they arise and vanish rise and vanish.

So they're nuts table there unstable unreliable? You go back to the same restaurant, you meet the same person and it you're not sure that it will be ass, pleasant, ass, the last time or unpleasant back its very hard to control. You go to see a movie from your favorite director and there you are bored to death. It didn't work this time. Are you ve seen enough of this style or her style, so the something in it very liberating when we become really conscious that alike. the sun, reliable or even here in this meeting with the sir person this evening, black, it keeps changing It's really really pleasant and then suddenly whipped. Something happen with the. waiter or with the taster and vanished We are in a relationship over the course of a few years, and so the buddha

seems to invite us to pay real attention to see the variation and how, as you know, we tend to cling to things that are pleasant. And we tend to fear are relieved as aversion to what is displeasure bull and also to not notice, what is neither pleasurable nor on pleasurable so there's a whole fee, of our lives that we miss the mind and even notice it because it doesn't feel pleasanter and pleasant and in meditation with the minutes eight of attitude that we can bring to daily life. For with that aspect of, maybe we could call investigation when something pleasurable happens? We notice? How did look at this pleasurable? Let me stay in

relationship to it instead of may be wanting to keep clinging to it in a. Let me yet experienced pleasure and notice how it appears and disappears. And when something unpleasant happen, let me see how could you pleasure led to com or integrity. Our patients are care or honesty and Dead of irritation closing down exploding, how can an experience that is on pleasurable led to healing or stability or compassion? or humor. Maybe that's really intriguing to me that something that would naturally lead to more trouble could lead away from trouble. It require of me a lot of attention in life, the capacity to recognise a fortunate oh if one hears

something happening. It's not what I wanted it's. What I did not want How can I develop courage here, a patient sore yet again in time. The. How can I have my value of respect or consideration be added, Foreground here, when it's being challenged, not easy and so there's a whole field here that we exploring the buddha use the image of the bubble to talk about this almost sing like hey honey, don't put all your eggs and the same basket. If you try to make things, the bull and safe and and fun pleasure ball, and as you like it, it's gonna be really stressful right because you're not gonna, get it. There's gonna be a pleasure. Displeasure and not of neutrality. Maybe, and how can you be free in the midst of that sum, here's a whole field. Here's a pile worth worth checking. You know, and that's for aggregate number two

aggregate number three on my god, my favorites. I love this one, so rich that's percentage edges whereby we are listening audience members to a true darwin, nerd. I'd say that with love, I'm an aspiring darwin, I respect it yet! Well, you know this. I think this enthusiasm it develops. Also in practice we talk about the jai for inside the key yes, joy, the giraffe curiosity, I'm so thankful to my teachers, because they showed me this that, instead of in a version or not noticing things that I can actually come close experience things and find things out about these phenomena that I am experiencing every day and with third, this curious contact, the curiosity,

comes very slowly becomes a joyful curiosity, and so now I'm like oh can't wait for something displeasure butter to see how I could do with this. It's like the next episode of a netflix, serious error, what's gonna happen next year to year, and so this third, the aggregate, I'm relieved to see us think about it, because you know it's perception, how we perceive things, and so when we were talking about the feeling tone, it's more like how we are affected by things and how they're experienced as pleasure, bullet displeasure ball, and now it seems like it's more about the object. The thing- south. You know how we perceive the things, and so imagine that the classic example you walking in the woods and it said getting dark then you see across the path, the snake and a new job Freeze want to fly, fly and so

you see the snake and then you look a little closer and suddenly your perception changes and you discover its and you see how see in turn all experience changes. The thing hasn't changed, fascinating to me it's the same old thing that is on the ground there, but it's perceived differently and therefore the All of the inner experienced changes when I felt like there was a threat. I need it to defend myself. I might, die poison other embellished. of my mind. You know: suddenly it's a completely different thing, and so this is an all classic image, but this is what we experience life. You know when we perceive things. We think that what we perceive is what the thing is yet as we pay attention will discover that there's a lot of projection in their because

past experience. When I met somebody looking like that person, it doesn't look good because a person who looked like that person in the past something to me or I learn through education or the dominant group, that this kind of person I dangerous, they are dangerous. It's not a perception to me. It's a fact there There is a need to change the sight of street, no go on the other sidewalk and with this practice we learn to tension and recognise things for what they are, such a buddhist expression recognising things for what they are seen reality for what it is here. The work is to recognise that what we think is objective is actually very, very subjective that I somebody- and I will it's not- that their desirable or dangerous it might be.

It might very well be in many cases I'll find out that I was actually infusing suffusing the site, with my own learned, conditioning and sword wow, that's remarkable so when I think, for example, of the future looks bleak to me, the amount of freedom possible. When I'm able to recognise that this is a momentary perception, it's a mirage. If I'm confused like. We are often we take our thoughts to be reality, so the week is gonna sack the years. Gonna sack The rest of my life is gonna suck, that's really painful. Unless I know it's a mirage if I know it's a momentary perception, then maybe I can hold it more lightly. The looks bleak, that's how it appears. Right now, appearances.

and I can learn to relax in my projection. We could think. Oh, yes, it makes sense for the future, but it for the past now maybe with practice, are closer look I might find out depending on my mood, I'm gonna. receive even the past differently. I always said I suck, I always said everything else with everything I expense in my sucked. Is that more about reality or its more about the mood? And so here's perception how I appeared to my ass in any moment how others appear people then people people when we're impatient people, they sack people sack. That's a fact. That's me. How d you know on a bad day, new york city, we are trying to reach their destination and all these producers.

you know they sack, and then you come up retreats meditation. Something just happen to you, some beauty, some beautiful moment, and then you walk in the street and people. People are so touching. Some moving people so much compassion for them, trying to find their way be safe. Experience ease the p Oh, how they perceive and past and future and myself in some ninja ji. You know that one hears one of Joseph teachers. Yes, yes, and when he says the thoughts about your mother are not your mother, that's kind of basic liberation. It's you its basic but huge, to know that morocco is a mirage this so helpful in life, our pascal gallia discouraged. Of course it looks like this instead of buying into a daring into any perception to see. Let's see, let's see, what's gonna happen

I think it's good to know. It helps me for me when I meet people who have a different view on all these three different view than mine, you not to say, of course they can understand things differently because of their experience with their been exposed to and what I've been exposed to, and one thing can be seen so differently from people coming up. Pascal talks about responding, instead of reacting to staff and practices for working with selflessness Give giving is always a challenge, no matter how well you know somebody, but this year he might consider giving a few special people something I'm pretty sure that they will love cashmere sweaters from quince. It's great timeless essentials that never go out of style, including swayed bomber, jackets, organic cotton sweater.

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owed tee and p r c n t ten percent to get free chicken wing for a year. That's three pounds of free range: organic chicken, wings, free and every order for a year when you sign up at butcher box, dot com, slash ten percent and use code. Ten percent. Just to take this aggregate in a slightly different direction, I have not done much practice using the aggregate says the focus of my meditation practice, but I certainly heard of it discussed this buddhist list many times and upon retreat shortened by cast interviews or just imbibing buddhist book sir dharma talks in my day to day life and is somehow the notion of perception has wheedled its way into my practice in the following way, which is every once in a while, be sitting or doing walking meditation, and I will hear something like a fire engine or

cap puking on the rug or whatever and I'll notice. Ok, lightning, quick quicker than I could ever have seen, play out real time. The mind identified what that was, but it wasn't me. I was not, therefore, that it just fine orange and came into my mind, and so that's a very quick and, I think, very easily accessible way too. On hook from the self. Yes, exactly said the mind: does that it recognizes things it labels things it. It's perceives things yeah, so it does it on its own, such not that personal right yeah and by the way there One of the perceptions we want to correct and meditation is a refinement of perception you could say, or what is meditation, it's a training and perception and What do we do partly had ceased? agree with me on this. We can compare notes that

when we practice, we start to come closer to experience at as their happening and we are invited to notice the specific characteristics of things. This is a taste. This is a thought. This is agreeable. This is disagreeable. This is felt in the how's this is felt in their hands. You mean we get really specific about the experience and at some point in that perception. Training, what's starts to stand out is the characteristics that are not specific, but universal two things, so some things are tasted something's, I heard some things are thought some things blue, something's, our red. They all have specific characteristics things. Some things are pleasant, other things are unpleasant, but what did they all have in common is what's touched to be noticed in the meditative attitude in meditation when we start to know

This is that things appear and disappear. Some things are heard. Some things are seen, but they both appear and disappear in experience. Some things are pleasant, others are unpleasant, but they both appear and disappear. They're all additional and none of them are that person on which is the most in rigging, encounter intuitive aspect, but, like you just describing po through meditation, I'm able to recognise that perception is just does its thing. You know, there's a sound. And right there there's the image of a cat or fire tracker. It just labels things at organizes. It's not that personal. I totally agree. I totally agree. I do Why, on the clock a little bit- and I know if two more aggregates to sort out here it so if it's ok with I'll not just in the direction of mental formations. Yes, mental formations

That is the aspect of mine that is large enough to include many things. So you know the feeling tom is how we are affected by things pleasure displeasure. The perception is how we perceive interpreter, see the thing, the mental formation is, how we engage how we react to respond to events, sudden the emotions, the thoughts, the intent that arise in my mind or in our minds and so right now, as any of these aggregates, are always happening at this at any time. They're always happening right now for ample, you have the intention to hear me. So what you hear be agreeable, a disagreeable you perceive the sense of what I'm saying and it illicit sorry. It's something you sometimes it's a disease. Two pushed away sometimes is the desire to keep sometimes its desire to think so.

This is the response, are reaction that arises Andy image for this, that the buddha use in that chicken suitor. Where uses these five image for each one of the aggregates is the banana tree trunk. and so the story goes. Imagine somebody who wants to build something solid So somebody wants to build something solid Oh, they go to the woods there go to central park, looking force, truong would to build a refuge or something Did they walk in the words of central park and sunday? They see the banana trees like there are many. I bet in central park being south of montreal. So they see a banana tree and bright there. They think oh wow, look at that. Big leaves big flower. Big fruits. There must be solid, do would in the heart of this banana tree.

So with their acts. They start acting the banana trees to find what at the core of the banana tree fibre, nothing solid, no hardwood and saw the buddha use that image of the banana tree to talk about all this, is that a rise in us and if you're meditating I'm talking to the audience here the listeners you know, if you ve meditated just a little bit, you know how the mind will construct something. You know you're sitting wanting to be with the breath or just the sound The silence and the mind starts building up something that creates a story or next week. This. I have to make sure that those there and then ten twenty minutes down the line. Suddenly you wake up hope, I'm just here banana tree trunk. There was big flowers, big leaves big fruits, but in the carve it nothing, it was just a construction, mine, mental formation, a generation of mind and the buddha says these guns?

action you have to recognise them for what they are, because you take them to be solid, to be factual to be reality when they construction of the mine there just ephemeral things that peer, unlike the banana tree, will fall on the ground after having been born baron. In its foreign fruits. Yes, yes, yes, so and These emotions, for example, that very naturally, with takes so personal and are so invest. in the emotions that we experience and Take to be mine are inside of me in your mind, are I you know the buddhist as it does now, there's nothing to it, it's empty in its nature, it something that as the nature to arise and pass an inn. adaptation. We will find this out. Suddenly, a big wave of anger rage, a big waves, doubt shame a big wave, a verb arrogance

I got it. I understand all the stuff you know only to be followed. Twenty minutes later by doubt, what am I doing? Am I doing it right? How should I go about this and so the buddhas inviting us to notice the ephemeral empty nature of these of risings? And if you interested in court a kind of counter, intuitive, essential buddhists thinking we could think. That's the intention, the intention to open the fridge, the intent, shouldn't you go to displace at that place. We could think this is really I this is. I. Maybe I'm not the body. Ok, maybe I'm not the emotions. Ok, they come and go. Maybe I'm not the pleasure comes and go, but the intentions, the one that in ten this is me this is This is inside me I'm inside this or something like this and buddhists as well. I put it in my words in a but well, I looked into it and I found it

I in there you know intentions arise out of condition. Out of education prior experiences. You could think some of the people decide. I'm gonna take up the weapon to go, defend my country it might like a personal decision on a one level. You consider very personal decision, but the intention to take up weapons are arms arise, of the conditions. If there was that the war in my country, maybe the swish wooden, rising me it. Wouldn't I just wouldn't, and so even this that's inside the core of human experience, the intention, I'm the one, decide to think just sit a few minutes and you have discovered that it so let in there and that certainly not I once others think as

the data I just want to be with the brass, but it keeps thinking so the thinking is not so much a core. I that does it. It's just had bit compulsion net, so personal and then the last aggregate consciousness is that I get Carl Sagan anything. So I tried to make it to get the attention of the listener, because this has been going up. Will not I grabbed the attention a bit here and so consciousness while the image, while so powerful the buddha, compares conscious, ass to a magic show saw a moment of hearing a moment king a moment of experiencing an emotional moment of feeling something in the body and backward the legs, she'd are these moments of consciousness, one

on the other, a creates. The amazing magic show of I The illusion solid permanent intrinsic permanent. I and so the buddha wanted us. Knowing of the confusion that king and now we can get caught in sight If our selves, with the sense of solidarity with all its compassion, seems to be saying, hey honey, note? The knowing mine noticed in knowing quality of mine, how it appears and disappears and you might find that does not even the eye in the center of this which she would think this is the last hideout. god. You can take everything away from me, but the observer. This is the one that experiences this is. I and buddhists says you can got that.

Has to question that assumption, with questioning all assumptions, I'll preconceived ideas in meditation. That's within fast, negation does you know we sit there and we notice that a sense of I there's a sense of iron. We start to the consumer, It's our sensations. I met, I they come and go. Emotions are not I becoming go. Perception happened by themselves. They come and go and consciousness, maybe who is in the public domain name, is just a knowing knowing is just knowing, maybe there's nothing that I need to identify or appropriate here. And maybe through this second lose fear of death, because, if think I'm the little consciousness isolated inside this body and

I'm separate from the world. It's scary, it stressful, but if I discover that are now it's just something that happens now. That's the most subtle point and all these aggregate stand there they're going from the more growth to the most subtle, she's notice, but expanses of the body sensations, tastes, very cross and then pleasure, and then section o already very, very subtle, and then what weapons in the mine hearts so tricky in a with thoughts and emotion. We can get caught and then consciousness, which is transparent It's not the sensation, it sweat knows the sensations. It's not the taste at what's experiencing. Taste is very transparent, it doesn't have much features, but there can be an identification or clinging to it. As I it's inside of me, what

it just says: do you recommend to probe this selflessness of consciousness? Wow! That's a good question! Well to me, it's such a subtle point that it comes much further in the practice. That's what I would say just here spontaneously, because I don't think it's easy to investigate, that's why, in practice we, with the breath and then the walking the pasture the sitting and then the emotions and the thoughts and like it's very far. If you go sit, a typical retreat usually does no talk about consciousness until the day, eight or nine said the very end of the week. Long attendee retreat that they'll start to talk about this, because one needs to have a mind that is very quiet and stable. I think to start to be entreated by this, so that's maybe a first response, but one way we don't want it to become hetty, that's the danger. If them

doesn't have a lot of silence in it, but one way would be to ask who whose hearing, whose thinking whose sitting and then we can maybe feel it's not that we shouldn't cleaning or identify what we want to do in practice is recognised as if it's happening, oh yeah. The sense that this is I sitting here, observing or feeling experiencing reality is a very clear, definite sense that I am meditating good. Nothing to do just noticed is high and then suddenly, as you describe suddenly perception happened by itself. It was not I perceiving, but perception was a function of the mind. It happened by itself, and so it's not like you have to get rid of anything, but just get curious. Where is the eye? Is I'm sitting here

If the miners agitation to it, it will become discursive conceptual I'll, be thinking, but if there is some quietness, then maybe I'll be able to sense how it appears to how is perceived in this moment is listening and maybe sometimes something happen. You know why we use the language and we can play with this. Are so maybe that's gonna be My last possible answer here is sam. You know how, when we practise the wording, That we use might we might remove the eye as we practice instead of saying I'm hearing, silence or sounds in the street. Just to say, hearing is happening. Hearing is happening. How this fear Fear is known instead of I'm experiencing fear or I'm knowing fear or joy. Joy changes happening

so we remove the eye not to go towards the dissociation. That's something out ass, we remove the eye from the language just to see our lands and the experience how there is chopping. Carrots is happening there. And suddenly we might experience it for a few moments that the media No, I in there and no one is disappearing. Nothing is disappearing. We just removed that way. Perceiving conceiving the world and things keep going to questions before I let you go. One is is there something I should have asked but failed task during this romp through the five aggregates nodded nothing. He said a basket could have asked

something I should have said there could have said- probably the the it'll come later, but this is what happened here this time, I would say an important thing to me: do that I tried to do, and I teach- and that seems very important- is to make the connection with, these things that can seem so conceptual and almost call you know no, sir, not I make the link with the hard, because I think to me that's why I'm still practicing today. It's because of this that we are talking about these things. They become practice and they can become practice and if they become practice there. Make the heart vibrant to me. What I see in this strangely enough, is that its liberating its liberating the hard it's freeing the heart. What's at the end of it, I don't know what the very end but what's happening appearing. Is that

Joy is more available that tenderness compassion arises more spontaneously that there's more calabrian, equanimity balance inside the hard mine- and that does more compassion relationship. send joy in appreciation that healing is possible to me. It's really related to healing to the heart I don't know if I was able to convey it today, but that's definitely to me what it means out. This is that joy becomes available and care. there can be less self absorbed fascinated by south in things like this. That tibetan phrase comes to mind all the time at moments like this. The rough translation The tibetan phrase for enlightenment is a clearing away and bringing forth, and if you can

clear away all of this grasping energy, then the a lot of good stuff that can take its place so beautifully send yeah yeah clearing in bringing worth it here's my last question, which is: can you for the many people who will have listened to this and may want to learn more from you? What are the best resources out there to get more pascal, even though pascal's an illusion, of course, I thought you would ask about. Like could read more about the aggregates and yeah, but let's talk about one, Well, you know teacher and I'm a bit. You know different places city, in countries in europe and north america and no there's a website. My name on it and you know on them and dogma

seeds there's many teachings there that can be found. That's what comes to mind now, pascal clara dot com, yes, we'll put a link to that in the show notes: dharma seed, which Pesco referenced, is a website that aggregates to use a loaded word, dharma talks given at retreat, centers all over the world, and if you go to that website, which will also put a link to a new search for pascal's talks, you can find them there. Thank you so much for doing this. It was a delight and was so great to meet you. Thank you and thank you for everything you do it it's! It's really good you're out there and I thank you for today listeners and I love practicing with people said to me that you know nothing greater than sharing a hard together for a few

as you know, in discovering human nature, which is quite a thing. Thank you done. Thank you thanks again to pascal, clara is great episode. Ten percent happier is produced by justine, davy, Gabriel sacrament, Lauren smith and terror. Anderson DJ cashmeres, our senior producer, were assessed, I remain as our senior editor kevin o connell, as our director of audio and postproduction and Jimmy regular. Is our executive board Sir Alisha Mackey leads our marketing and tony magyar is our director of cod casts. Finally, nick thorburn of islands wrote our thing if you like, at present happier- and I hope you do- you- can listen early and ad free right now by joining one very plus in the wondering app or on apple podcasts. Prime members,

listen ad free on amazon music before you go, tell us about yourself by filling up a short survey at wondering. Dot com slash serve hey everybody, its dan on ten percent happier, I like to teach listeners how to do life better. I wanna try, oh hello, MR grinch. What would make you happy? Ah, let's see out of business sign at the north pole- are a nation wide ban on carolyn noise noise noise? What would really Make me happy is, if I didn't have to host a podcast. That's right. I got a podcast too hi. It's me that grand pooh bah bah humbug, the o g, great grub, that grinch from under a chance? The brainchild eight october is a pathetic attempt by the people of all bill to use my situation as a teacher, told movement. So joy may the bridge

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