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Alec Baldwin just said one that shows brought you buy square space into Alec following collar, so delightful welcome to study should know how stuff works that organ of the partners? This shows the beach Bryant Jerry, Their hosts nasal drift, some sort that makes this that it makes this room infections zone, Jerry's, sick. She says she's, just learning zone should not. Are you sick Norman? I feel great good desired. Are you or your dad I'll dad's attire?

How do you know why you time to stir didn't get it not sleep? Last night? Ok, but not because that's ok, we'll leave it at that and have had for building a wall back away from that question shower instead, Chuck take my hand to wander off into the forest. This is pretty need. I gotta say I was excited about this because a incidents like a fourth be it's cool like a forest and see it provides a great canopy over our heads. It does a canopy of knowledge. I reverse engineer that last one: oh, you did yeah man, he is word and we're gonna get a few. Nor can get some stuff wrong in this one of its correct. I feel like any time we tackle something. That's in any industry like

The people in the industry are gonna have way better current information that we will. I think it's funny, because I picked up on the same thing, not just with the industry, but also with the battle over forestry right. This is a minefield, my friend it really because I this this, some article has written a number of years back in his very friendly to the forestry industry. Yeah, it's not like extraordinarily. Innovation minded as far as I'm concerned, yeah well, bombshell, not only earnestly out, is pretty neutral no man like gum, they hear something I was and we'll get to this later, but the initiatives and certification programmes that will get to later I didn't know like which one I should like and not like. At the end, I can tell you: well save it a carrot,

somebody. Tell me what the like, in that light, I can tell you just say that our I'm saving- let's talk about forests in general chuck. Yes! Well, let's talk about our country a little bit united States. Well, even more or less talk about our continent. Ok, North America, that, right when settlers came over here there was a lot of trees. There were a lot of trees. Do you remember our pigeon episode like the idea that there is so many? What was a passenger pigeon that that died off their words driven to extinction, because humans magnet Dana, I'm pretty sure, is passing? I remembered negative used in the episode about which was very confusing Thea and they think that ultimately, the pigeons

been managed by native Americans who are wiped out by disease so that when the first Europeans really came along, they saw tons of pigeons places. Overrun pitches deserves no one there that to hunt anymore right near same thing with the forest. They think there was so much forest cover. It was because the natives kids who had manage the forest grey or had all died off right, largely died off, and then what we thought was just this crazy stretched forth. It had always been. There was actually fairly new but is probably not the king well, at any rate way back in the sixties, hundreds about forty percent of land North of Mexico was trees, not too bad. No, it's alive. The trees and trees. A great does it give us. Would I mean they lead to you? No pre metal, it was all about, would yeah. You know, ships.

Buildings houses will again volume hair. Throw this. Article yea makes that the very smart point that we came in cut down, trees and basically built in a new should now thoroughly new economy. Several new relations out avoid definitely for sure like literally out, avoid routine the world and planet earth about thirty percent. Is forest land and Russian Brazil led the way because they have huge tracts of land yeah, but as a continent. Actually Europe is the most they have them Forest of any kind must dance. I believe that they have one thousand and one million, which is a little over a billion hectares hectares. Point four acres right sure my total number of acreage. If you're in the? U S of forest land throughout the world, one point five billion:

prison forests. Is that the most broad definition of the forest? They include everything and that in the U S No, no! That's the world one point five billion in the world at you, yeah, because in the U S there, if you, if you talk to a forester, they will say everyone thinks that you see a bunch of treason, forest, but they would narrow down that definition to at least one acre right of land, which has at least ten percent tree cover. That's a pretty good finish Infer forest I'm on board with death. Well, if you're talking definition than the? U S. Has about seven hundred and fifty million acres, seven sixty six in Canada and that's that's forest. My friend whom were done

yet there was a minefield very navigating, but this is about timber and that's different than for us. It is different in force. So a forest is their definition that you decide its an acre of land with ten percent recover right. Timberland is a type of forest land, but it has to have a certain amount of usable trees on it or timber, yet make it Timberline dry ass. I grew up in a forest, actually, never think about our ear. By that definition, nice was a cop called Chuck South South Forest area. There was, I think we had. We have an acre and a half, and most of it was three so that more than ten percent of yet you see seed, a dense forest

he's pretty debts that far from yet you weren't decline, freeze out there now, but I used to get poked fun accident grow up in a neighborhood like most kids, it's just a street with like successes in the fourth who would make funny you for that? What were they think? Well, you know it's called a growth in the neighborhood when, in the eighties came in, I grew up in the neighborhood Is it wouldn't that great? I was jealous man, because every one else would sneak out at night and then go to their friends house and there were swimming pools and tennis court then looming owners, and it was just like me in my book. In woods, but I guess I got older neurons. Like did your house's awesome. You live in the middle of the woods yet well, plus you're, lucky to have your brother to hang out with he's a great guy troop deployment. So you know I had I adore that led out through the back porch. We are growing up figures, the sneaking out. I just open the door and went out for my room. You re like go ahead, come and go as you, please

No, I wasn't supposed to re. Write was unlike sneaking involved, there was opening the door and quietly closing you didn't have to always the shimmy up a drain by up to my room, shimmy up or down down the lot easier than up. I can assure me when I was ten or twelve They know shimmy at anymore away, so people sent in that guideposts cover that you now it's just another word about nineteen. Eighty four playing the trump yeah never played the trouble. What was Louis Lockers Patsy doesn't look like you, but I was like now. It may not have been a for peace picture, but I think it was someone who find it. I hope so. Ok, so, let's get back to timberland yes, timberland is the forest is capable of growing something like twenty cubic feet of commercial would per

acre per year. That's right! That's it! In people estimate the two thirds of our nation is forest land and five hundred and two million acres of that is timberland. Sump n, not bad at all. No, so the key here, though, is- and this is where the big debate comes up when I can get into a necessarily now, but the key is that, yes, you can have a that is capable of growing twenty cubic feet of commercial grade lumber timber a year but you also wanted to be able to re grow yet sustainable harvest right. So what you're? After is what called the net annual increase the surgical, causing annual gain? That's wrong, the annual increase, which means that the amount of stuff you grow. In a given year- is more than what your harvesting leopards. Seen again and again,

I understand the industry term gotcha yeah, I looked up, no industry gain earlier net and your game, and they said you must be city folk, right, idiot increase, so the religious- basically principally you just want to less trees in your growing in a particular year, or that you have, then you have in in reserve yet and I m. Actually, the United States is has been an annual gain for for decades. Now, yet greater it's a real concern into cause for worry that we over over harvest trees, where we used to man that we d forest. If you look at the historical data, we are growing more trees and we're taking every year yeah. I think the status since the nineteenth since nineteen twenty, we have it.

Anything worse right and apparently, and since the fifties we ve gotten way better. I think that with four times as seventies were like kind of bad, but I think that was like the the transition decade yeah. Yet what does this mean? really appreciate were early conservationists alley that he only well yeah because posts. War enduring priests or even people, just sort of took what wanted and did what they wanted with the land there wouldn't want of foresight and so early innovation, is we're really fighting an uphill back then I think so despair. What respect for them! I need to say you know what our enough. This is smart, what's gonna happen in a hundred years, if I'm gonna get you log cabin jabber dire was boggling amazing. That debate still goes on, MR, but having just with timber with climate in general change. Things like that agreed right. So if your scientist you're gonna, classify forest usury,

by what kind of trees were there. For instance, a tropical rainforest you can have broadly evergreens the boreal forest you're gonna have need a leaf evergreens then there's the temperate forests, which is like what we here, the southeast yen and the? U s her five major regions, Pacific Coast, Rocky Mountain, North, south and love it. Alaska has its own region, yes discuss its. It deserves and there's a lotta trees up their here and, in fact, there's been a little bit of a scandal recently. As far as Alaska entries go there again that is the teeth, but we're going to consider a couple, a regions here and we're gonna mainly be talking about the United States. Is this where we live yeah, but there are trees everywhere and unify the to a lot of places, but at Easter, the Mississippi

Is the hardwood region in West is softwood, and if you're talkin hardwood you gums, maples oaks walnut very Hardwood Walnut Managua, his money, Actually, I think I think mahogany easy tropical rainforest tree, I'm an idiot NATO, that's it! I give her come up with something of my own southwards you're, talking pine, spruce, Hemlock, Douglas FIR, redwoods southwards, sir. We're just getting started. There's a lot of information coming your way through take a break Jimmy. I don't know it sounds like you. Working towards that there was a break. He set up. What I was take a break will come back and we will talk about why. What is good,

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As a long time for people to building fires a million and a half years ago there were that completely reshaped my ideas of hominids from one point five million years ago, what you think about it before, not that they could create fire there, much called doped little bit. Maybe that they just kind of may do with what came their way rather than actually making fire. You know we should do if I guess, under the origins of fire, we did. You want I'll fire yeah, but don't we covered like the first fire said we are. Did we probably not? I think I, since seen quest for firewood three talked about via good movie. Can I want to know

my favorite part, but this is a family podcast, so I won't gathers it's pretty the brutal and a lot of ways and you are it's a wise. What good like I said you can make stuff out of it, and other big thing is carbon sequestration, which is why you hear a lot of people battling clear: cutting forests because carbon sequestration great traps carbon, so the build up of Co2 is reduced as a matter of fact, trees account for seventy percent of the organic carbon locked. In the earth. Yet canopies is important. They also provide habitats for our animals and birds and insects and other plants and good things that we love and the hydrological cycle. So a forest will help soak up rainfall and filter the water as it becomes groundwater off

important yeah, feeling drinking water. You can think trees for helping keep the soil in tip top shape to filter out all that nasty stuff near so yes, forests are extraordinarily important right. What is good, but you also can make pretty good use of it. I can. If you are a clever primate likely humans are, you cannot only use it for fire which a lot of peace? still you around the world firewood, is still a huge use of wood here of timber round the world. Nothing beats natural. What fire and a fireplace in your head, No it's true, but am dimmer when we were when we shot those Toyota come the third videos. Adam Carnegie, Melanie I am one of the innovation things was like a filter like an easy, cheap, portable filter for cooking fires, yander cooking fire- remember that gives us a big problem, be more like make it using

fires to cook with, but they're doing indoors and like suffering all sorts of lung problem, then that still happens. You know none industrialized nations. Yes, there, what we call things. It's that says it's a prime, it's the primary fuel for cooking in heating in developing countries right not industrialized, anything very aright. So here in the? U S, so in a lot of countries these days, only seven percent of timber is used, for I guess heating in cooking yeah. There's a big push against even that seven percent really that's a subject, I agree with you: I got a virus. I realized what its wasteful, yes, Well, I don't have a working fireplace, so I just like them. He is like that yeah. Well, I want one, but I have one of those old houses from a nineteen thirty. It is expensive to get it retrofitted. Have you forgotten,

the monotony yeah any chimney work, Anita Vigour, fire box, it they said something like eight or ten grand a guy like try to talk me out of it, the bitch, the dude. I was like talking to make money we're going to fire. You, girls were expensive, I wouldn't wasteful, so having percent, goes towards that lumber, which will get too in a minute, is about fifty three percent in the: U S of timber yeah, and most of that goes to new house construction. It turns out, they make sense, pulp and paper thirty two percent and then composites, like plywood veneer, the other seven. Although I think we're missing one percentage point Army, Harare, yeah. I wonder whether that is its the mystery, precise mystery per se. God knows what they're doing that one percent of wood

side saddle. The word lumber and lumber isn't just cut, would know just like timberland isn't just forests. Yeah no forest isn't is timber Lumber is actually a specific thing. It is, would that is squared or rectangular Joe, and you go to the the hardware store you see all the two by force into by sixes and all that stuff. That is lumber, because these, where you point to a post, around posting, go gimme. Three other

numbers that they'll say boy where'd. You come from Yale you're wrong in a couple of points here, so that's call round would actually here that doesn't mean that that's not included in lumber. That's all nit picking, if you're outside the industry. I think say I agree with you wholeheartedly, but someone pointed out then put him in the face with the two before it's not that lumber. That's groundwork, memory hacksaw, Jim Dugan, didn't he attacked people with the two by foreign, W W S add in Washington wrestling. Sure he heard like a to buy, for they make sense its violent construction. It's about a fifty fifty split with lumber, I'm in the! U s about half goes to construction and about half goes to a pallet, creates and furniture yeah yeah. I dunno I read in extraordinarily interesting article on the pilot trade. I'm sure it's there's like a whole cartel.

Going palette, added apple, revalue again and there's like palette thieves and counterfeiters, India. It like just it's a really interesting I'll see. If I can find it are posted in the park has paid for this poor palates you can you get me article things at a pilots and a lot of people are finding other uses, so they think he can go behind the grocery store and take them. Sir. So now a lot of places have big signs that are like do not take these ballots. No especially if their blue, like that stealing, if their blue palette their view, you can get the place three sullen from sued yeah. That's the saying: if the palate is blue, it's not for you because you'll get sued. That's a packet furniture if you make further are you gonna like hard? Would like oak and maple right is its durable and it has that lovely grain

in their mahogany that we all love so much right. The software is no slouch either now, but palette through using hardwood took his sturdy right, but yes off with the different the nano. Usually you suffered for construction lumber too, because it contains fewer knots and things like that and actually southward is used chuck more for construction lumber, because it you can make it long straight, which is tat. You want your construction lumber. In ST nobody wants a kind of a topsy turvy house- oh yeah, maybe a crazy person, but most people, though they want street plum houses yeah, although it's tough, if you ve ever done a home, run a project to find straight. These days? Is a right yeah you go in there and there they all seem like their warped in bed in a very yeah, and if Europe amateur like me, it doesn't help yacht any.

Numbers not stray now you want straight up like I know how to make up for that. Like my buddy Isaac and Kansas me, do my house right, he would go pick out. Stuff announces curved. He built. I can account for that, but I can't he's got like a special Morgan and the brain is called smarts construction- Carpenter, smart. Ok, that's lumber right, yet you can also make paper out of wood yeah. This might be the fact that the package you ready for this year paper is made out of wood. A hot, but you had something else you got me, have we don't want on paper before seemed awfully familiar now, but I will say this:

Such stuff, like five different topics, that we should cover ok paper being one of the origin of fire paper here, but of deforestation in earnest. We're gonna touch on it, but in the nose a couple more, I think. Ok, pornography, just getting so. Let's talk about the cellular structure of. It is this very important work, especially when you're talking about paper like that was not just a non sequitur. It actually makes sense exactly so. Trees like everything else, are made of cells cracks in the trade, and will you take enough of these cells in stuck together? You can create something as strong and tall and rigid as tree, but it takes a certain kind of cell to make a tree yet the cells, if you think of the walls of the cells they make the tree strong, and there are a couple of chemicals that make up

walls, cellulose, indignant and cellulose is flexible and bendy Ligon. There's! No, no, I'm your glue sailors and keep you more rigid, because I don't want you to bend right. They worked together, yeah together, cellular likes it or not. Yet always wondered about that. He has to go along with it, so I wanted to Bin Laden get out of my face right, Agnes, like now no colouring outside the lines. So, if you separate those things which we ve been doing for a long time now, you can get a cellulose fibres and actually make something called pop, which will eventually make paper. Right, you can form it into a map present riot and bleach it and turn it into paper. Like you said, you can also make other stuff to technically Fibre board. You know the stuff they used to put on the backs of dress. Yours and things these days, fraud. There that's actually made from paper pop,

yeah. But if you're, if you're at another hardware store in some guy that works, Lady says what you want to use his empty if further medium density, five reward in that way. They want think your city, folk, insignia, mdf, sure totally and then they ll, know your city full of you like everything else. Yes Then you have hard board and that's even stronger than Fibre board. It's just. I think it's harder because its pressed together with so much pressure, it's more dense, yeah fibre, borders, pulp and glue presty impress. The other harboured is the same thing for pressing. I, like you, said under pressure:

and then completely different? Actually, although it does seem like it will bear a pre. Striking resemblance is particle board right. Yes, these Euro composites fly wooden Particle board above Composite Frank, but they are different. The difference in India from particle borders, mdf is well part, word is cheaper and it's made out of sawdust, whereas the mdf is is made about actual fibre right out a pulp. Yet they make sense here like Chuck, you realize that stuff, you should know, has hit such stride We're talking about particle board. It just hit me apply. Wood is when you take. If you look at plywood on the side of it, you'll see that it's a lot of little veneered pressed together ass other cop veneer, souvenirs plywood great. But if you really want something, that's just as tough distance, durable, the cheaper,

you gonna go for thee, oriented strand board, O s baby, which is basically like plywood, made out a particle board year in its it's all, but replaced plywood and construction these days on construction, because cheaper. It is stronger, more durable and I was wondering why it was stronger and its because it comes from it's right there. In the name, it's oriented the specific orientation of the woods strands. Minks makes it stronger. Ok, let's not just the haphazard, they talked together, impressive by God, specifically oriented right, invented nineteen sixty three man, California, in actual nice, so Let's be. If you go into your heart, restoring they'll, say you Andy ever owe us be so I know what I'm talking about so dont train dont, trying to trick me right, didn't is followed by the turn of the lumber truck

where are we now? Are we harvesting it? Yes, so to get to this point, to get all this wonderful products of law bird timber. Sorry man, I have a lot of trouble, not confusing lumber with timber. The lumber is timber, timbers necessarily lumber erect. That's it. I was taught as a young boy. So when you harvested timber there's a couple of approach is right and dumb other several approaches that they really under two umbrellas. One is the take everything to Hell with ecology approach called clear cutting. Yes, that is All these trees can make some money air go. I'm going to cut down all these trees, yet typically over five acres is a clear cut. Yes, anything under that is called a patch cut. Ok, although people disagree on that definition too, but the suggestion is that, as under five acres, an area

small could recover being effectively clear, cut, much residue recovery, to do with the environment- and I am not sure that I always clear cutting you, going you cut down everything, it's it's pretty straightforward. Really it takes slightly more thought to come up with a good. Let's call the silver culture approach The culture takes into account the idea that you want the area that you cut down to grow back to renew, so that again you hit that no annual increase There then decrease right to where the amount of trees you have in stock or growing in a particular year is Chile, more than the amount of trees you harvest that same year. Right they do that. You have to be selective yet to be smart in the number amount in type of trees. You cut down during any given

tree cut yeah with clear cutting when you hear that you just think like. Why would anyone argue that that's a good idea, but people do very controversial if you're in the timber timber, industry, yeah, forestry and forestry industry, you can say you will think in good confidence that you can say that Adding is fine if you do it the right way. I dont get that yeah. They said that there are seven conditions. If you meet them, then actually better four up again, and you will agree that such decisions I do when regenerating tree species that needful sunlight to stimulate seats, running ceiling growth when dealing with sparser exposed shallow Rudy trees. Danger being damaged by wind. I went

prison, even age, stand and stand. I found as a group of trees. There are the same species agent, condition that can manage as a unit the stand of trees tat when regenerating stands of tree species that are dependent on wind blown seed route, suckers or cones that need fire to drop seed when faced with savaging over mature, stands or stands, killed by insects, disease or fire when converting to another tree species by planning, receding and finally to provide habitat. For while I species that require edge new ground and high density, even aid stance, I could make sense out of any one of a really stuck out to me, and I was there for wing cutting down an entire area. That's been hit by past sir disease. That would make sense to me if you're, trying to contain an epidemic, their mature, clear cut. That makes sense everything else.

Green is there were some there's. Some logic to release is now just total madness. Yeah opponents declare cutting off it increases soil erosion, water degradation increases Sultan streams. Rivers aesthetics is the main reason that most people are opposed to it. I am aware that many people are is it. It just looks a wasteland right well, the problem is also with clear cutting. It sets the stage for invasive species of say, like fast growing weeds, to overcome seedlings here, and it keeps the forest from regenerating here. So therefore, clear, cutting most people- I guess, except for the people came seven conditions tend to believe that is its an unsustainable method of harvesting timber right More sustainable method is shelter, wood, cutting, that's a type of silver culture.

And that's when they use partial cuttings over time, we're talking over ten or twenty years, only two to four harvests, where things can naturally regenerate during that time frame. Right sounds like a good idea. It is there's also see tree, can't see, see tree harvesting and then selection harvesting, which is where you basically go in and say this the tree tat tree yeah effort that are more marketable. But opponents are proponents of clear cutting, say that's worse, I don't know either could see, I can see what the Sami liking Violet here, maybe artificially this request being here and you're you're, disrupting the balance, the ecology of the forest by say yes, these great We have always other crummy out here, but the thing is, is your also affecting me?

ology, by cutting down everything legal system. I would like to hear from someone that really knows there stuff that has a proponent of clear cutting to explain it better to me now than the internet did. Please do So when you do what, when you do use any kind of silver cultural technique in United, clear cutting, you have to go through the forest and figure out what trees you're gonna take a lot of times. And even with clear cutting. They will leave trees, that are say six inches in diameter or less in size, the two young psycho. You leave phones. When you deer hunting, yeah the exact same thing I love the name of that process when determining in serving the land to work at all got cruising group crews, the forest everybody drives around the force, yet a pack of cigarettes, roll up in their shirt, sleeves

Next comes following an I got confused with tree felling in the correct way. So I put a little post on Facebook. And I had a guiding Gabriel Friendly, who worked as a for a service fire and fuel management. Dude any said: I've cut hundreds, if not thousands of trees. So you want to hear what he says because we would screw it up by guarantee are you about to say that you know better than this guy. I dont know ventures in this guy. This this article was definitely wrong from everything I found yeah. That's exactly! Why asked he said terminology it is depending on where you are, who you talking to them. We're different ways to do so, but the safest and most common is to cut a wedge out of a tree measure about a third of the amateur that measuring about a third of the diameter of the tree in the direction you want the treaty fall. Then you that's, why I will stop here. Am I

this other than you getting this withdrawal required to cuts of Whitecotton sloping cut that meets the flat cut and freeze the wedge. The combination of these two cuts is commonly called the face cut. Ok, so then the that is on the side of the tree in the direction it's gonna fall correct and it's like a triangle year with one one. The bottom cut is ninety degrees. The top coat is forty five degrees. Except the car. The wedge acts as a hinge, so the tree falls in a safe, controlled manner. Then there is the third cut, most commonly called the bat cut, which is a straight cut in the opposite side of the tree about half way through the diameter of the tree, maybe a little more and that's about two inches above.

I am cut on the other side. Ok from what I saw, I said I deal you want to leave twenty percent of the diameter of the tree intact during the bat cut no edge mass called holding would- and I think he said, holding what is just what it sounds like a holds a tree together to make like it's not coming down on your head. Basically, it hold it together till you ready. He said if you ve done these two correctly three. Actually you should be able to simply push the tree over with your hands while or drive a wedge into the back. The tree down I'll bet. That's pretty. Also push a huge tree down with her hands and yell timber, so thank you to Gabriel Gabriel freely, thanks Gabriel, for fire fighting forest fires. Now it's pretty me or start now I'll come on no force. You service does control burn Sally. I thought you might like, because there have been cases where they ve found arson and it was actually a fire

Or his mother, firefighters, you remember that now there was a dude who was a wild fire fire fighter who was not giving work. There were many wild. What I was thinking was it the mom mom went so that are saying could make some money. Cap, lesser, not really, but you know the man that just wants it, like figure, businessperson, bright eyes, so check you got to you cut a bunch of trees yet the first thing they loggers do, is they have all of the trees and go have a purpose?

cut all the while the limbs off. Yes right and scope, bucking yeah and then once you get the tree barked, you cut it in the huge logs from top to bottom, and then you tie the logs up a chain of new tractor. An u skid them along is getting trail that right to what's called the landing area and they plan these skating trails jealous is very important, is Willy nilly because they are trying to protect the forest at Saint. Yeah, because if you have a bunch of tractors driving out with lots and lots of heavy logs heavy heavy logs attached to them, you're going to compare the soil like this was a tree ten minutes ago. Right now, it's a log, yes huge logs, and so if you're gonna compact some area, so you might want to compare the same area so rather than a bunch of various soil, so that the rest of the fourth can stay healthy and when you get to the landing area, these logs are gonna, be basically graded and sordid,

and some of them are either going to be sent straight to the port mouse to be created in the paper. Prettier logs jointly right or fibre board. Something like that and then others may be sent in the higher grades. The wheel folly we sent to arm sawmills right or concentration yards right, which are basically The second stage of these landing areas where these people say we're gonna, put all these the specific species of trees over here, because this one saw mill likes only Oak, sir we're gonna say in their own right, so either the landing area goes directly sawmill or those that extra step of concentration yard in there. Yet it's dangerous here, it is

depending on what year you're looking at logging is either the one or two aside from commercial fishing, most dangerous job in the United States at least either way you can find documentary television shows about these professionals, Discovery channel its right jack, you local list and other channels this past year. I think it was commercial fishing airline pilot was number three I find that very unnerving yeah right yeah, what I thought I'd like up planes didn't crash much what's up with that, my fear find came back farmers and ranchers reform. In case you wondering mining machine operator, then roofers, sanitation collectors, which I thought was interesting- are issued. Selling military jet pilot dude soldier wasn't even listening,

ten km airline pilot but, like I said, I think they go by death in that previous year on care. Surprise depends on if were at war, or you know Ok, but airline pilot with Ireland. What else did and then truckers an industrial machinist, especially ice robed truckers. Probably efforts will I'm sure among truckers, that the power have the higher mortality rate. Will you are showing for discovery? I think that was a history. Ok, you showing more for discovery now than when they own, which is here. It is where what you think Yesterday's Pike Esther prison. He cushy unless apparently you're on a commercial airlines like a one in ten million jobs of death. Yes, if your bike, Esther I'm on a job death. I'm really you know we can figure that out. If we knew it math was. I don't like it. I'm trying to think if, like how he would die from doing this.

Flying somewhere to July podcast problem. I would say if somebody law, the door and Jerry sounded a fire in here, then we could probably die from correctly. In our case it would be of Jerry. Finally, snaps Indus murders, as both on I think we could then Jerry, are so Chuck once the stuff. It's the saw mill over there we're gonna hit the pot mill. Which stink by the way one of the FAO smell than earth, nor those here you're, like the can, I D say: export no way worse than that. I thought it was like that real sulphur Ismail. Now that's well! Why? they're down in Florida. Okay, this is like its own smell you surely smaller before your window, chicken form, that's, ok, Europe,

there's nobody. There might be the worst relevant authorities to work on chicken farms do in software, something there now on farms, ok, but but other people in our company would go to the farms in like a hand, teach them how to use a software smell so bad, which is imagine that job going teaching these people that have been like literally counting chicken heads for their entire life, teach them how to use the computer to do it here. They were not receptive. Many times talk about hunting, pecking, yeah, those lot honey and beckoned, so I'm at the at the saw mill right yet when you're cutting up while when you're, when you get a bunch of logs you'll like these are some good logs. But I can't you must have this park. It can use mulch. I kind of thing

sleep marketing realises park represents basically one of two organs of the tree. Yesterday. Actually three, we talk about the inside of a trial that neither this is interesting amateur, so the bark is the forum. It's the shirt, conducting cells phone flow on hand in basically just provides energy transfers energy throughout the tree. Yeah like the internal piping part of it, is the flown and there's that one bugs bunny, it makes like that. You know that bug bunny assembly lines on murmured, a totally powerhouse powers, something here so that's the sound of that makes a few listen very carefully in a forest True, there's another set of internal piping, the tissue called asylum

and they carry. This island carries the water up and down the tree and they are well suited to do so because they are like pipes. They are shaped like piping right, so fallen foam, that's bark! Yet the asylum that's the void inside and in between the two. You have a thin layer that, basically, cells. It's called the cadmium and the cadmium produces flow on and Zile themselves and it produces island cells, inward right, yeah, so the stuff, the part of the tree, the closest to the bark, is also youngest, yet heartwood now led an incentive, deeply. Others. The sapling it further inside her into the tree? That's the older asylum and that's the heart. What it's just the oldest part of the tree? Yes and you win- the law gets to the saw mill they're going to basically separate those two things, because there's different uses first southward and for heartwood, but the

things are going to do is get rid of the bark yeah. They put it. I d barking drum and is Canican night club. It disconnects everything rubs together, get they put it. Several different logs and unlike the logs, rub their own bark of one another year they put a little music. It's pretty horrific and found a machine like you're a tree and all of a sudden. You haven't naked tree, stripped the skin right off then that bark and become a mulch What else of fuel feel pretty much it decorative molten fuel, The once you ve got that naked log you're all set, so you want to cut the m the southward from the heart one, because the the heart with extraordinary, strong and use it for posts in TIM,

in beams, and things like that. You really are gonna, put a lot of weight on the floor, and sometimes at right, sometimes in actually there's another article. I read once about this: they get this commercial diving company down in Like Central Florida. Yeah that their whole job boys they will go down in the swamp and like raise old, Cyprus logs area from the nineteenth century. There ve been down there since then there and down, They sell em as like reclaimed original, like heart of Cyprus, for flooring pay mind boggling amounts for computer. Is this. This log was felt you know a hundred ten years ago have, and it just sank. I happened to be one of the ones that sank and they couldn't do anything with it back. There are so many Cyprus trees that they disdaining to bother with those. So now

guys go down and dive and identifying them raise him up, and then some that jack his heavy and actually that the perfect time to mention my buddy Jason from Damn castor guitars. He built me accustom telecast, her replica and they use old, would form a dam in Georgia that had been underwater for like a hundred years. That's really cool in this thing. Is it's the heaviest guitar, it's beautiful, but it's tough on. My back is the worth of the young man. It's emulous gorgeous the wood they get is really just heavy in dense and gorgeous wood, and they got this big load of it from a dam that they tore down and they Columbus Georgia, and so they got all. This would now that they're making these sweet guitars out of wood, you name your guitar. I haven't named it really, nay, my guitars, although he wanted me to

yeah, so familiar guitar, I got forget. Tarzan won through for my user name, one geronium one charge he at least in one people right next to each other than one fancy and wonder Ralph Mouth now here, on Visa, Weathercock Leather, Tuscany, I think it has either whether sisters so was Pinky the younger sister, There was one they look like Joan. Jet, in particular, is the one that look like a bombshell model. Like that, you know the pink sweaters, in that. The big proof AIR, so he which quantity date. Thank you dated pinky, ok, leather. She didn't you guys. She was wrong. I think I remember you talking about I don't remember: Pinky Tusky. There are definite, remember leather Truscott here man, whoever wrote that shows a genius keep right or their doings or satisfying everyone. There, like you, like the ladys rough and tumble. You like him dressed up in pink,

I would like to see here right. Do you like him with an italian name? Where are we he barked, wherein no, you may deportees Milwaukee right. Yes, we have the bark to answer your question. Ok, so we ve bar to get a naked bog. If it's gonna be paper, it's gonna go to a cheaper. Which cuts the log in the little little swears about two inches by a quarter of an inch thick and they're gonna mixed those chips up with chemicals, you're going to put it in a digest her, it's a big pressure cooker, and that is what separates that cellulose from the linen that we talked about earlier to get your pop yeah funny get that leaning out of their yeah. It's wet its fibrous. They bleach it to the proper shade mix it with water again the big mats and then press him under these incredible rollers depress out all that water right and in their young. You ve got what will be,

you're right and if you're, making lumber U I stingier year, Log tv Scooby do head rig is what it's called the Atlanta things are awesome the thing that people are always tied on going toward out of here and discuss the login half her. It cuts the edge laugh and maybe like just cut out the heart. He had stood a rough set out right and then you have a couple of other types of size, there's a tremor that squares the ends before that you have an edgier which creates the while the edges for your lumber here and of course there is a whole other process involved in making round would a posts, which are now lumber. Evidently, your heart, what is gonna be older, obviously, is you know how you can tell a tree by the rings, as into rings that we talked about The silent brightness they can be M is creating more zile themselves there going on there heartwood yeah

is growing. Our inner brings me more knots in that heartwood too, which is so. It branches pass it's sturdier, but a lot of people will also be like. I don't want to see so they're not going to use it for you or I do want to see not yet been what you're doing sicker like a good, not in the right place. For instance, my Qatar has a beautiful not in the center of the back. That's the gorgeous Joanie. Now that I would call this one up thinking they're, ok, so that's thinking tested air around. Maybe leather demanded from there, but actually looked up. Not. Like wait. What is a night, not even thinking, of course, is just a former branch think about that either here it's either a branch base or a branch bud that never happened. How do you know

not only did I not think that's what did not was even think think what are not worth there are in the last part of that process. Is you get a dry the stuff out, so you stack up sorted out. New Dryden Kiln, correct decision made something out of clay. Should we take a break, fell, sick, brakemen, animal taken home. Here's the thing saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball because there's always that guy. Joint your game. Ever passes. The rock he costume Briggs theories and who completely happy with. Put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico it's easy to swim. Save on car insurance. No need vacant ankle sprain, because you're, absolutely exhausted switch and save with Geiger. It's almost better than

what's so Turkey kind of me. Unlike early conservation folks You were in all of John you're Teddy Roosevelt. Mere was cool, weirder yeah and these people. They reacted to this rampant, dumb deforestation that was going on like there is a significant amount of logging that happen between the seventeenth century and the mid Nineteenth century yeah up to thirty percent of the original forest land by the indivisible. Was gone yet and words along about a billion acres that was originally there. So thirty percent of that gone right and there was what was called. They are very worried that there is going to be with a quote national famine of wood here and that it wasn't just conservation at a time like plastics had not been developed.

Cheap, easy metal, alloys, weren't developed until savour, mid twentieth century right. Yeah, we never use overlaid. Yet we really used would y yeah and for also for fuel for cooking for heating. All that stuff tat we needed would through the air was gonna, be a big he'll if we ran out of wood and, as a result, a lot of people got behind these conservation efforts, and especially the government. Here in the United States, all government levels own forest land, but for the most part the federal government owns the most yes and they don't just protect. It say this is off limits. They say you guys can come in hey for the right to cut down some trees from here, but you you're going to follow our rules. Yeah. Three hats. In twenty three million acres of federally owned land in this country is public forest land, yet so either like National Forest, or, I guess, to be used by the logging industry. If you meet

right conditions exist here, but I think even national forests fall under the that. The umbrella layer added mean there that they were not the same. Wait wait does happen, sometimes essay and animal will be placed in annex that calls for slander. Timberland at home will be placed on the endangered list and as a result of that, the forest industry will just completely shift, and that was the case with the Mexican spotted owl in the ninety sailor, happened to that guy, so the mexican spot, it all was on its way to becoming extinct here and it made its home in the west. The western softwood temperate force the right and on the U S, government decided that this was enough of a problem, that they put it on the endangered species list and protected it, and that meant that its habitat was protected.

Which meant that all of this public clan that all these logging companies use to go on long island near they couldn't log there anymore. A lot of heat didn't hurt like No they didn't know is enormous, and you know that the federal agency is doing its job and is being sued by conservationists and logging companies right. Yet at the same time, over the same thanks, you're so or else there not doing their job a horrid depending on how you look at it. But eventually the Mexican spotted owl was protecting, its habitat was protected, and so the the forestry the timber industry shifted eastward yeah, and so they there. The there was a ship not just indirection on the card,

but also in where they were taking timber from rights are now more timber is taken from privately held lands in the east? Then public held lands in the west because it makes because of this one type of our great completely changed the they complexion of the timber industry in the United love. But Timber industry is doing just fine yeah. You know it's a real. It's a real testimony that like they can adapt here. Yet a man, the Mexican spotted our can adapt, but Mohammed industry Pollyanna PAN. You ever see else where the I have before by their amazing the levels gorgeous in that wingspan. It's like its remarkable, we'll see one fly. Yes, it's like woe that looks that's bigger than most birds, have you ever had one like protest side of your window? Are you trying to sleep you work out? We have one that lies behind her house. Doesn't keep you know. We seen it

four times- and we heard a lot- which I love it didn't like wake me everything we had one that was keeping us awake really should not. Now that's went out in China Flash lateness general direction there in pike down, never hurt Yes now, so I got the message catch it and we were always after that he's like check out the Flash Ladys bad. Is it not even, as I said, if the federal I've been on a lot of land, which is managed, managed managed by two different bodies, but it's you know they tried to do their best job with things like the healthy forest restoration ACT sign in to three thousand three by J W Bush will you help protect forest land, targets about here, though, that like this is when I was like, I feel like, were really waiting in two and explain territory

for a steer there's a lot of like, I suspect, a lot of green washing going on, and so I started poking around here and I found that the sustainable forestry initiative is very frequently accused of green washing the ESA. Yet so you know I like em, like fair trade, look for a fair trade label and I'm gonna pay a little more for this, because I believe that the people who may were paid a better wage rank. You know this computer that wasn't fair trade, that's the sustainable forestry initiative. Seal of approval was meant for that. You could look for it unlike ream of paper or something. Say how well this thing was. This paper was harvested using, say, shelter, cutting techniques as some sort of silver cultural techniques near that that promotes sustainable forestry. Ok, the thing is, is there's some other groups say like forest ethics,

a nonprofit. Can a watchdog group that has come out and really aggressively said that the the sustainable forestry initiative is basically just a green, washing front operate, really that's funded by paper. Companies is international paper international that may occur a couple of others. That's what think Your Hauser was one, maybe that that find this. This approval compare organisation so that the S from what I can tell real it looks that way and yeah it's it's very disconcerting? Fortunately, there are some that do appear to be utterly legitimate and the chief among them is the Forest Stewardship Council. Ok, they do the same thing, but there the real deal So this article you sent me that there are a lot of major brands dumping the ESA by ice. That, and I would like all that's terrible, but they're. Moving to the better standard is incorrect. That's the impression I have ok,

that makes sense now, rather than bearing the ESA fi seal of approval like for buying paper that bears that field. Because not even a surly, the paper companies that are doing this because once funding the ESA by right. It's like office depots, longer by ass. If I sourced paper, ok, I'm guessing I'll be going with the efforts, see the forests, Stewardship Council, so Hewlett, Packard, eighteen T, Pitney balls all state while on a paper shouting about right is, are doing the right thing. It sounds like yeah. That makes more sense. I was confused. I thought they were dropping the ESA Fi, which was a good thing, but the air dissolve clear now

right, you pay. Something may think forest ethics apparently routinely gets distance then desist letters from paper companies in the force, the azure for sustainable forestry initiative and then check they. Therefore, service itself is often criticised for being in bed with the industry, I'm sure, they're they're Alaska thing I was teasing earlier the area. What is there is something called: the big Thorn timber sale, six thousand acres, sixty two hundred acres of seven hundred year old forests to in the targets in Southern Alaska, up for sale, for clear cutting my clear cutting and that the problem is, and I hold growth forest. Yes, it is exactly right. The problem is not just the people are worried that the forest wont work,

but that this forest is also used by other industries like fishing industry, right tourism industry. These people are like a more using this acreage. Kansas condom commanding cut it downright here's, a couple lawsuits to stop that sail, and I guess a federal judge into doesn't fifteen, I think Mark ruled that guy you're within your rights smile, maybe disgusting, but go ahead and sell sixty two hundred acres of all growth forest in Alaska, for clear cutting with the presumption that it will go to a log in company. Yes, you'd be great, is like a lot, Warren Buffett bought. It said about a small house in the middle of it needs a thick ass. You were a cape, so arm d, for It is a thing, and I agree with you. We should definitely do an episode just on my right. Yes, but that's not the only threat to the forests

world now it is a serious threat before me are not the only threat now, there's a few more natural threats, insects, of course, specifically invasive species like the eurasian gypsy moth came here in the nineteenth century, and when it's a caterpillar it eats the leaves of hardwood trees. You, like a lot of em to the tune of since nineteen thirty de foliated An eighty million acres that is so many of these Ghosts- forest eighty million acres just on the EAST coast, the subtle caterpillar. So that's an insect. Disease is a problem. I know here in Georgia with sudden oak death is a big problem and said:

it was originated in nineteen forgets found and nineteen fifty five. Ninety five heard what I say: fifty five, a full forty years after that. Ninety five Armand. When this happened, those public Clinton's fall. It was Clinton's fault since, in its killed more than one million oak trees, yeah, that's no gypsy moth, but that's a lot now and then Leslie invasive species. Real problem codes, you that was the other one I want to do I do I'm cutting forget so arm could see was a great example of here, an invasive see, that's a non native, fast, growing vine that- and I think it's native Japan has plenty of natural predators that, like to eat

right here in the United States in the South EAST, the United States, where it was given as a gift by japanese businessmen in the thirties near it doesnt have any natural predators in its grows like crazy and the problem is it grows up and over trees and creates its own. It uses the tree structure and increase its own canopy around it. They basically creates a Dyson sphere, the around a tree to buy it. It's the ETA reversed Dyson Sphere, right, it's excepting the sun from the outset, rather harvesting it from the inside tree death is what it means. I know that you hate seeing their. I can't shake my fears that it cuts. You like it offered a tree to stay

ground, but the ever take time go there with your scissor shush, yes, cut it off that tree very frequently mile a minute. Wheat is another good example, apparently and other asian import that his choked the MID Atlantic region. I guess lesson here: is this an asian business an ever gives you non native plant as a gift. Smile politely say. Thank you very much. I also don't make eye contact for profit and say thank you very much, but I cannot accept this gift, but would you like to go? Have a lovely sushi meal nice you anything else again about so those timber. Few want go. Take that word into the search bar. Stuff works that camp and, since I said, search bar cipher, listen around. I'm gonna call this coup is tat. You have seen hey guys listening panic, panic today and I loved it. I love that episode by the way we get some good feedback during the night

hates must have. What we do. She's even aware must work. She was born in nineteen. Eighty two, this writer and she says I remember family members talking about parts of our home state of Kentucky there were lousy, was Satan worshippers. One of the things I like best any have certainly been talked about. The influence of works of fiction haven't superstition, Let me think of how I have encountered this my own life and the great love of major boards. In fact anything she heard episode only towards that she didn't references. That was a good episodes carried. We did an episode on that. You should listen to it. I think they're pretty and have a great memories of playing with one is a kid I have quite a few. Home, including quite a few weeks ago. I don't, including attach you on my chance and she attached a photo. She's got like the upper. Lettering of the wage aboard like right across, like under her neck lying at the top of her chest on a yeah

like when she wears like a dress with that expose threatened. It's just lovely. Looking at that point and everything I saw the photo and photos legal looking, but the portuguese people commit what's up, girl dvd boys. This has led to some very interesting conversations of horse with people a lot of people, You like it like me, but some have been a little freaked out by thanks the movies like exorcist and more recently region the report has been given a lot more power and I feel that a really deserves my tattoo for over a year and not noticed any here, more activity surrounding me and I have not been possessed, matter. The demon use my chest weight to our world. You think I will be ok, we'll see, keep up the great work that is from Harry parentheses, like the moon, Love and horror, movie references and then yeah about was very cool. Tentative nice man,

well carry right. That's right! Ok, thanks a lot carry for writing in If you want to write to us, you can join us on Facebook that complex subjects. You know you can tweak suicide as why escape, I guess send an email to step back at the house of worse I come and as always that are home on the web stuff. You should know doc for more on this and thousands of other topics how stuff works, are com investigative journalist every Stevens is approach by fixer for the rich and famous was ready to hand over his client secrets. She thinks she's had a journalistic jackpot, for when her sources killed, every finds herself at the centre of a criminal conspiracy and soon murdered herself can you saw of every death is part of a cover up inspired by true crimes solve the world.

First, interactive, murder, mystery podcast, the pits you as the lead detect. To begin your investigation had to the Iheart Radio podcast. Wherever you got your podcast one crime we're suspects. Can you solve it.