Hey folks, available now from Iheart a new series presented by T Mobile for business. The restless ones join host Jonathan Stricklin, as he explores he coming technological revolution with E restless business leaders who stand right on the cutting edge. They know there is a better way to get things done and they are ready, curious and excited for the next technological innovation to unlock their vision of the future. In each episode will learn more from the restless ones themselves and I've deep into how the five g revolution could enable their teams to thrive. The restless ones is now available on the Iheart radio up or wherever you listen to podcast, hey everybody Dear old pal me Josh, and I M here to bring you today's as wide as case selects episode call how patents work it sounds like it will make your eyes bleed out of boredom, but do not get it wrong. It's actually one of our most interesting episodes ever and it is seriously sincerely

honestly, everything you could ever possibly want to know about patents, and I would guess that we ve never said the word patent more then we do in this episode so enjoy. It is, from November two thousand fourteen take a little time to learn about hands welcome to study should know how stuff works that are you walk into the park, Josh Clerk, there's Charles the future and this, Mr Fischer, no there's jerry too. By the way a jury is ready for January me, twenty fifteen years for a new year, I'm ready for this year. I think it's been clear. Nothing has been fun, I'm just

I feel a bit much were arrested in twenty four thing. It's October, you ve got a little while ago. I now is my favorite month. Do can drag, which I am so tired. You hippy reasserting far out next currency it is far out and so Chuck. Yes, I'm ready to see it, patents turning now man, I'm not that I don't have an inventive mind. Only the my brother does and he had some good ideas that have later been made into inventions. I didn't patent in every every time I see a new and ascended to say, hey Herman when he had this idea of twelve years ago. Scar What are you doing now? I've got a bunch of pinball tables who is doing all right here on the patent on them. Now. Nobody could you know why cause it's America, that's right.

So it turns out Chuck and doing little better research that there's a mention of patents in patent protection in the constitution. Yeah do not even the bill. Rights. Freedom of speech is not even mentioned in the constitutions and the bill of rights, but patent protection is in the constitution article one section, a closet which is known as the intellectual property clause, and it says quote: Congress shall have the power the lips to promote the progress of science and useful arts by securing for limited times to authors and inventors, the exclusive right to their respective writings in discoveries, and since this is the lay eighteenth century, a lotta that stuff is just like randomly capitalized, six greater their centre right and my apologies all of you, six great listeners out there who know

capitalization, like we love proper now, so it's in the constitution like if you invent something. That's new novel and cool. We think you should have some sort of government sanctioned monopoly over there at least for a limited amount of time. You know why why cause very early on the United States said we want to encourage inventiveness and forward thinking and entrepreneurship and great ideas there on board pretty early, even though it's sort of a mess these days which we'll talk about it, gets me and oh yeah, we well but you're the whole point. The whole purpose of the patent system and apparently every it's one of the hallmarks of the of the the modern society. I guess you have to have a patent office and it says

we value innovation, revalued technological progress, artistic progress and we're going to show a commitment to that by by basically saying you you have again. I guess it is the best way to put the monopoly on your invention for a limited amount of time and it Harkin's back. Apparently, the first patent was issued fourteen forty nine in Jolly Old England by King Henry, the sixth who gave it to guy, didn't even have a last name, well, yeah sure of, is not a last name. That's where you're from that served- Josh Toledo, I'm just saying this medieval is that the sixteenth century? No, it's not so John of Buddhism, gotta patent from King Henry, the six first stained glass.

New factory yeah back then patents in England were there was little bit different. It was more like hey. We want to protect the crown in our country and our good friends and our good for ya get friends of the crown. And make sure that they have an idea that weaken go after anyway out in any other country? Even if it's something like stained glass, that's already clearly being done in places like ITALY right, there was based we, like you now officially, are the only person who can make stained glass eels a bit of a sham yeah. They would they would give out patents, not just on a an item or in dear an invention, but like a whole industry. So, like this, somebody held the patent on the publishing industry for a while, apparently got out of hand because of his royal prerogative left and right, and you did last that law now by the sixteen twenty four they started to pass statutes and laws to try and curb that abuse of power.

Anyway, they could in and make it a little more like the patent system that we know and supported a yet. They were like the crown candy a patent unless for a new invention, yeah, so that that is very similar to what we have today. So right off the bat America's like new country were setting up a patent office and the first person to get a patent in the United States was one Samuel Hopkins. How Kinsey last name it not Samuel of Pittsburgh, penetrate the theme, your Hopkins, it's pretty much! That is good. He get it a patent for an improvement, making in the making of potash. Does it potash protest? I don't know. I said it eight different ways and my head earlier, while at one of those rights, yes, and so he held the first patent actually person that reviewed his patent was a man named Thomas Jefferson, yet he was begun

Innovation, as was Lincoln and Lincoln, is only president actually hold a patent. He got a boat stuck one time in river said: hey that we need if we could find a way to not get boat stuck right. So we devise a system to unstick boats when they were stuck on. A sand bar for the rivers tune shallower something nearby in fighting some we say that it is basically that you flowed over and there, like President Lincoln, it's a great idea: here's your battened, so he was a congressmen at the time, but yeah he's the only president to hold a pen and then Jefferson handled the application, process for awhile before passing it off to you know, other cabinet members and then eventually, like you know at we. This is all out and we need to establish our own patent office, and I did so in eighteen. Oh, do ya think they do I underestimated the number of patent applications they receive. Got their inventions on here. The first patent that Samuel Hopkins received

percent examined. He signed it. He gave to the Secretary of WAR who signed it, who then pass it under the attorney general who signed it, and then President George Washington signed it so there wasn't a sustainable process and then check. There's like tens of millions of patents, who think, like five point, seven million patent tons of millions and then five point seventy two time. Yet it is There is a notable one that I think is kind of hilarious, Mark TWAIN beloved american humorist, but I'm sure he invented who didn't like Mark TWAIN Man, his allotted tween haters. Well, he invented the elastic brass trap. Really. I wonder why he he envied an improvement in adjustable in detachable straps for garments, which he suggested can be used for pantaloons or vests or other garments. Usher basically saw look at it. You, like that's a bra, Strap Abed that the old sought garter benefited from the idea

I would guess how, in other things, I wonder yeah. He also held two other points, one for witty banter a game, and he invented a game to help players. Remember important historical dates, gay again, We saw a dime on their own, I'm sure there and then a self pasting scrap book which wouldn't become a huge until the nineties yeah. Ninety myself, pasting means is already sticky yeah, like the photo albums appeal back the plastic in that that she'd, underneath the sticky uses static electricity. Now it's actually sticky do it. I think is static, really sticky. I think it's dickie, I haven't looked at a follow up and walk or have the right to go to.

I don't know the hallmark story, but I cannot do it well we're going anyway, so I know the new Christmas heard a minute or so chalk. Let's talk patents, men yeah this! They had this idea because I am a big fan of shark, dank the tv show and there's a lot of patent talk. I was watching at the other day, and this is where we have the utility patent, but not the design batten. An hour's like, together with the stuff up methodologies, means and what will get to that in a second but let's start out and will probably do shows on maybe copyright and trademark. At some point, maybe there stood there were mentioning here, the yeah copyright, those are all forms of intellectual, but protecting your intellectual property and copyright is the the easiest and most broad and wide, reaching and longest lasting form right? Because you can write something and it's yours

the automatically in the United States and it lasts for your lifetime plus seventy years, not bad. Now and literally once you like Chuck. If you write a short little story, you can write when you finish you can write, see put a circle around area shock bride. Two thousand fourteen- and you have your official copyright, the train like that's it legally! You you're done just work as you created a work of authorship. Yep and that's pretty great if your company and you then have a copyright as accompany it last them up to a hundred and twenty years. Depending on whether they polish Right MA, am yes but that Sir,

eventually does run out, and then it can be shared and other people can make money off of it like, for example, all them hp, love, crest stories you I could take a bunch of love crest stories and say we wrote a type of put them together and publish them and sell those books. Really, yes, like a collection, the United to get any kind of permission nope it's in the public domain at that point. Well on to the world S right, while we read the reality and we have to read something from the public domain, I note this is really expensive to do. Otherwise it is trade marks are a little bit different there, a lot more narrow and what they protect and they protect designs and phrases that businesses use or may be trade secrets. I, like a formula for a soda elicits, does are different as its own thing. You ever the sole trademark.

I thought it was suffer from a trademark. Nothing. So so with those are evil says it's a trademark trade secret or with the trade secret, it's actually a it can be beneficial to keep something under wraps, as a trade secret is, if you have something you pay you're protected for twenty years. In the United States, your patent is but part of the patent processes will talk about is to publish it. You make it ex every detail of public, so then twenty years, when you're Pat runs out, anybody can go and look at your patent and recreate it and not give you sent for Visa trade secret as long as no one discovers the Thee say secret formula for coke by accident or by being this american life and rooting out right in and then yes, so they could see this american life for damage. Jews, but once it down the public like this, no longer a trade secret and other people can use it legally

The other way you can do is to take coke in reverse, engineer it and come up with the formulas successfully that way: that's not protected by trade secrets. Right but then again cook diffused that. Well though, they were can like great good luck. Supposedly they keep it in a bank in of bank, while here in Atlanta, I really like you sure, and in the last one is a service mark which is like a trademark for a company that provides services rather than products. So, like a viewer plumber, you might have a s M next year on year. Logo right does the different types of intellectual property protection protections afforded in the United States checked by the final one, and the one we are discussing and at length is the patent, and that is a copyright for an invention. And U S Pat Long defines, as quote any new and useful process, machine, manufacture or composition of matter or

any new idea and useful improvement thereof. End quote, and that is we'll get into all that. But the wording there is a sufficiently vague and specific. Because you're talking about inventions? It's gotta be a little bit vague yeah, because you don't have it all worked out. Maybe now, because with the copyright, for example, what you wrote down is is protected right. Certain structure. The paragraphs you use the wording you use that's protected the thoughts that it's getting across. The little puppy who got lost in came. Com in everything and it really well acute near the idea of a puppy getting lost Campi copyrighted with a patent. It's the rehearse like the actual invention, like the platform shoe.

With the goldfish tank and he'll that you invented right, yeah, the you can't defend their actual tangible shoe here, but the idea, the design of that shoe. That's what a patent protects yeah and you can't steal. It gets a little tricky with things like writing or like movie ideas, he can't steel. Someone's idea like there could be to movies about loss puppies, but if you could somehow prove that you met someone at a meeting in pitched in this idea for the lost puppy and then six months later they came out of the script for loss puppy. You might have a case that egg, I don't know man that happens all the time, ok, but think about deep impact in Armageddon. Let's go back to that. Well, Well now, I know that I say and you can have two movies there. There lawsuits,

Dave Alvin Hollywood Hollywood over it stolen intellectual ideas, but am whether not successful whether you can make your Kate Siena depends upon each one. That's a good point. The first thing, if you want to patent invention, is that you have to what has to be sufficiently novel, is what they say. So it can't be I make me similar to other things, but it has to be different enough to something is already patented or been published in a publication to grant the patent yet because if this that's really keep point, if you, if the even, if you invite,

did something right. Unless a you wrote about your platform, shoe with the Gulf is tank in the heel right. If you wrote about it and don't file a patent application, if it was published yes, yet within a year you, you can't file a patent after that. Yet why the first thing you need to do is file the patent right like no one invent something in rights all about it in the Washington Post for a year and then says. Maybe I should patent exactly so that you as a first step right and certain net. That's what makes a novel and like you said, if you can be taking different things that already exists, but putting them together in a new way that people hadn't thought of, or that wasn't what's called obvious, so that the invention also has to be non the invention also? Has to be non obvious, yeah, that's what most inventions these day things that already exist like there are new inventions, but a lot of it like

like there are new inventions, but a lot of it like that. The great example they use in nineteen seventy seven when Jerome Lemelson invented or patented the idea of the camcorder. It was so start at the time, people with paint hit record a video and sound at the same time, just that denied yeah, that's just silly get out Let me say he said actually now, that's kind of a good idea in its super easy to do is allowed to do is take the tape recorder to this camera he's probably dead, and he was able to get the camp quarter past. Of course, and now, if you go the patent office and do some research there, probably thousands of patents that have to do with the camcorder get each individual little peace that someone innovates. They can patent rights like night vision on a light attached to it right exactly, but you couldn't say: I'm gonna patent, a camcorder quarter this

I came quarter. I'd read but he'll be green because it's an obvious chain yea or this article- gives the example of like a toaster. Like you couldn't pet patent, a toaster that has an extra two slots for bread. Is anybody could think of that exact its it as obvious as single? None of this is to bigger toaster, and then there is also useful. Useful kind of the last of the triumvirate for what makes up a patentable item or invention and like it has be something that works. So like the example given in this article is like you couldn't, right then, do anything right. It doesnt work, it's not useful, but if those gears transported, you knows a new way of transporting something from one you know it's a new way of transporting something from one place to another more efficiently. Maybe then you could patentable patentable and then the in the same vein, something that apparently the patent office interprets something there.

That they consider that nine useful, because at the end of the day the patent office is supposed to be doing this for the benefit of society. End of the day. The patent office is supposed to be doing this for the benefit of society, so I guess they feel that they also can morally interpret things as well yeah. What is it like? You can't patent like a Turkey still like in your bedroom- learn or not- I wouldn't think you'd be more harmful than that. I, like maybe a doomsday laser that only works on children who live and learn anything on anybody of, but the tombs, baser forbad. Kids is great. Where see my point: Annabelle there was a great example appears to me and then-

Similarly, you're device has to be able to be too not just work like yes, you could say was random configuration of gears a work. What can I patent yeah? It's because not useful, and in the same vein, you can't Patten like a time machine right again. These happily give this. This article, lousy with great examples yeah like with we try it actually to get our way back machine patented and they said guises rock. You they're like this basically to sound design things for wasting your time. We could probably trade I get the, although good people who are made rocky and Bullwinkle would sewer. There are serious yourselves the patent in the United States- and I apologise that this is not patents all around the world, but we don't have like eighty hours now between research, each country

again in him, any modern, developed country typically has a patent system yet and good advice. If you have something that you think could be used internationally, you need to get patents in all the countries. You fear my rip off right because ear your that you have received in the United States protect you in the United States NET, not Canada and Japan school, not China, not anywhere for twenty years. These days, that's ollinger patent will last that's right, chuck is to be seventeen and I care her when they changed it, but it wasn't too terribly longer within last couple decades. I think actually will cover the types of the patent real quick to, because one of those the design patent is only for fourteen years unless such changed design patent. You you'll hear their on short tank all the time. That is something like. If you

signed a new chair like an IKEA chair that would be design patented. You can't go and rip off that chair, oh, but the idea of a chair, self isn't patentable. It's just this configuration of the chair concept, bright or Steve. Will design a shoe. You got an steed men can put a design patent on that issue, even though its issue you can in patent the soul of a shoe if it's some innovative new tread trade or for like attire that channels water away at something like that. Exactly by not think those are design. Patents, though, I think that would be a utility patent, design patents are, that is for fourteen years utility can. That is There are five categories: there can be a process, a machine and manufacture a composition of matter or an improvement on an existing idea.

And it might find it certain category like more than one but it'll only be patented for one of those categories, but its covered. Ok and, alas, for twenty years So basically year like the the coffee maker, that so it makes an egg and toasted the same time. There would have gotten a utility patent rights yet that adjust yeah nice Emily said the best egg she ever had. Was it a cafe? Utah where they could. Using a like which he used to heat the milk. Like that sprays out the steam there were steam cooked weird yeah like to make an espresso. They put the raw ag like as if you would make an espresso and cook the eggs with that steam. I've never heard of him. I never have Elinor and then there's the super weird plant patent and that is granted for any asexually or sexually reproducible, plant or flower. That is now

and not obvious yeah. That's that's kind of a big one, because there was in an Australian. It is this is the way it is put in the? U S. It was up in the air for a little bit that you were worried that, like naturally occurring genetic sequences could be appended to were basically which is crazy here in the United States. I think in two thousand and fourteen the Supreme Courts it now anything with them even to save your life, unless you pay us is in Australia there, one of their federal court said yeah like newer totally down with that which is crazy here in the United States, who think in two thousand fourteen, the Supreme Court's Edna, we're doing that you you can

hat and if you can figure out how to manipulate genes yet to make them do something that doesn't naturally occur. Yeah knock yourself out totally patent like, for example, Monsanto Seeds, that that prevent themselves from receding or creating more seeds, yeah or some new strain of tree. That's hardy against what some kind of insect sure you can patent right, but you can't go out and patent in oak tree no or human gene. Now you can, in Australia, which we should not be allowed to do. But in the? U s you can't do that now is a big load off of, I think a lot of people's minds, including mine, or that's good god. You can sleep than I am feeling great plant. Patents are good for twenty years as well. So I don't know I design Petroni fourteen, but you know maybe they just want to encourage more to nobody values, design like they should that's the problem

As far as we mentioned Jerome levels and as far as inventors go, he ranks second to Thomas Edison in number of patents. In U S history, not necessarily number of inventions, though a lot of people would point out. Yeah he's a pretty count where's your guy. Some people see him as a philanthropic genius Toma Edison arouse talking about levels, and here he is he's controversial himself too. Yeah, because he is accused alot of people of creating what scald submarine patents which are basically something just like that being developed here and you don't let any one now and you just hope it doesn't get their attention. Developed here. Then you don't let anyone now and you just hope it doesn't get their attention and then later on, when its huge you come out and say hey. You owe me a ton of money because I had this seventeenyearold patent. Yet now this this Glenn Wilson

Basically, what you're talking about is a form of patent trolling, that's right and that he does definite stand accused there, or we can say, is foundation stands accused of that. But since lemons and hat, was incontrovertible e, a genius inventor who finally did come up with a lot of really great ideas that we all use right. Meetings like they came quarter things like bar codes evening. They got his in that basically the modern world. A lot it came out of level since Head Jerry level since head right, but you are right, his foundation, has wrapped up like a billion dollars in licensing fees core awards near from these kind of these kind of lawsuits in litigations until he ran up against one, whereas I could think a bar code scanning case a couple of got put together now and then they they were added angelic. Seven others and the judge in the case found that basically this,

even other isn't necessarily statue limitations, reasonable statute of them, Nations had run out right on the time between when bar code scanners came out and the time they filed the lawsuit right and they used the term submarine patents in this article and said times basically run out. These things belong to the world now right and in a sorry, Lawson Foundation. You're not gonna, get this money interesting. Was it something passed in nineteen? Ninety five called trips agreement agreement on trade, related aspects of intellectual property rights, and that was supposed to kind of curb submarine patents, but they'll still pop up every now and then I think, think Tebow rear their head. I think it's not something about that. I know the details, though, with the submarine patent saying, hey everyone with a Comcast tv.

Are we actually been vented that whole technology- oh yeah, yeah much your Helen opened out, though it and get the look into any further? But it's interesting well, sir, keep at it we'll start again right after these messages, sir, new year's resolutions are very very difficult to keep getting exercise save more money. What about this? We have a resolution that you can really work with stop wasting time going to the post office that right, you stamps dot com instead because they bring all the services of the. U S: postal service, right to your computer, with your small business sinning invoice,

is, or packages or an online seller shipping out products stamps that can handle it all with ease yet and get this with Sampson com. You get five cents off every first class stamp in up to forty percent of priority mail. This right? U S, postage twenty four, seven for any letter, any package, any class anywhere you want to send it, there's no risk and using our promo code, ass white, ass, gay you're gonna get this offer afore weak trial, plus free postage and a digital scale, and there are no long term commitments or contracts just go to stamp that come click on the microphone off the top of the home page and type in s. Why, as K that stance, I come promo code s. Why, as K, Stanza COM, we'll go to the post office again. Ok! So Chuck beer! You talk about Edison, so yeah

said Lamb Jerome levels and was number two with five hundred and fifty seven patents held in the: U S but Edison eclipses that One thousand ninety three patents and he had set up a Menlo Park, New Jersey. That was just like the idea factory, basically, which ironically, is unrelated to the Menlo Park. U patent and trade Office on California really, that is just coincidentally name from what I understand interesting. I never do that connection. He, when he set up the Menlo Park he hard a bunch like really bright. People said, let's come up with one while invention every ten days when major invention every six months now, but my name on all from exactly and if, if the your hackles are raised, right now go back and listen to our Nicholas Tesla episode, which is a good one. Edison was a smart guy in many ways, cues quite a good promoter

sure, like the light bulb, is frequently credited with inventing the light bulb. A lot of purists will point out like now Tita, invent the light bulb, took a lot of other innovations that were included. Light related and he figured out how to put him to get into what we understand now is the light bulb well yeah, but that's an invention. The ideal ended and he went and got the patent. In now everybody says: Edison invented libel, Cosette, and I like that, took as you know it. That's. The kind of the whole point of patents is this stuff is available, the public to look up, and that was one of the original reasons they made it public is so people can look up other people's ideas and build upon that right. That's one! That's one mark in favour of patent offices. The patent system in general is that its way to disseminate scientific information and encourage growth- and you know, invent

that's right in the red with away does that is by offering an incentive for inventors to invent, because that can be a very long, arduous heartbreaking experience, inventing, and gonna do that and go to all the work of research and development, and then right. When you come up with it, somebody can just come along and mass produce. It then you're you're not can have any incentive to invent anything. You're, just gonna go off in like or work on a road crew or somethin. Instead, because it's probably a lot more satisfying at the end of the day yeah, you can't just go to the. Ever and say hey they. You need to look into this they stole my idea that I have patented the government would be like. I don't care what they may care it's localities, but they,

say: that's not our job that you can go and take someone to court. If you want to challenge this, but there is no government agency that, like patrols, the patents, infringement notes of the patent holder, tat to monitor and police thrown patents which they have begun. So let's talk about the courts a little bit like twenty years ago. If you have held the patent and you took some one to court for infringement, the court's typically. Sided with the infringer. There was a, I guess, kind of a either a thought that you are stifling innovation if you're just kind of suing people over patent infringement, you know- or else they just didn't view. Patents like they do today. Nowadays, it's going to the other extreme, where the courts rule in favor of the patent holder so frequently that a cottage industry of what are known as patent troll spring upright you have

People are companies or individuals who just go around either applying for patents that are really abstract and really shouldn't have been approved. The very vaguely written right in their typically software related to because I think there there's a sentiment that the the? U S patent office. It doesn't We grasp software and in the internet, nineteen that kind of stuff you. So you either going in file for and get up and on something really overly broad and vague yet or you by a bunch of other people's patents, and you just start for the whole purpose.

Going to people in Seigneur, infringing on these patents that I now own anatomy, some money, I'm gonna, take you to court. It's a business unto itself. It is. The problem is because the court's moves so far in favour of patent holders that people would sell settled out of court to avoid litigation, and so, as a result, this this whole cottage industry came up. The recent there's- been some steps taken to kind of reform that a little bit there was something called the innovation ACT area they innovation ACT passed. The house was sent to the Senate, it was in the Senate, judiciary, committee and then Senator Patrick lay. He killed it and the Tec Community, whose really big into patent reforms you're accused him of being in the pocket of the pharmaceutical companies. That would never happen in this country who are really big into prison,

the status quo bright, and if you really look at what's going on with patent reformed a day in this argument, Chuck you ve got the pharmaceutical companies roses. The tech industry, yeah tech industries, like things, are moving so fast in their so many ideas coming out that we are legs, we can focus on patent infringement. It shouldn't be as big a deal because its stifling innovation, yeah, there's people here that are scaring people from you- know licensing computer software, because this guy says that he a patent that you could says you can put software under a cd rom and an incel it right that you know that's the kind of potential thing on the other side, the pharmaceutical cup. Say: hey man, we make tons of money, licensing are patents, and so, if people are afraid of infringing on patents because they can get sued yeah, then our investments, our portfolio patents, are going to be protected. So there's a

huge behemoth, lobbies like hammering out right now in in the halls of congress- and it seems like the Supreme Court in the federal Government- are citing on the text. Yeah they m. Isn't that great article from Forbes about just the problems with the modern patent system? And that was one of the great points the camera who wrote the article, the guy, who found a pricing J Walker really here, yet he said that you know people are so scared. Companies are these days of infringing on patents, cause if you can prove that you knew about this patent Then you could be in big trouble, so they're, not even looking, which is the original idea of making these things published, is like I said earlier, so people would go and look up how someone did something. Maybe I can improve upon right. So people even looking now cause they're afraid that they will be it'll, be true.

Back and diagnose. We know that you saw this year this patent pulled three years ago, yet because the penalties for accidental infringement and wilful infringements are vastly different yet too big problem, while the J Walker suggests that you can cut the court's out and maybe make some sort of make it easier to license things here, so just create some National Exchange, where somebody can go and easily give somebody some money or temporarily licence whatever they need. Now and he sites some, I think, a forest research study that suggests ninety five percent of the five point: seven million patents that the? U S is granted to point one act of patents, Ok, the ninety five percent go unused in unlicensed and of those people. Millie half a million are considered to be high quality patents

they just a lot of nerve from university research and they d sit there yet and so protected. If this same the same study found that What like one trillion dollars of revenue is not generated Ici in the United States, because it this unused innovation. That's just sitting there in this. This in this big part, a big guarded vault with a pot in it of unused ideas, which stiffly goes again spirit of the original idea for sure enough, yet which means the system is broken, it is broke thou their way that it's broken to is the enormous backlog that's going on at the patent and trade office, I would just getting it reviewed, and yet so if you file patent, we're gonna talk about this in a minute, but if you file a pen chuck and they reject it,

That is not the end of the story. No, you can't keep coming back and back and back and back effect you usually will get rejected on the first. Try, yes for one reason or another right, but every time you come back you add. The pity owes already big backlog, yeah, of course And so apparently there is a night. Another study, the hours Technical wrote about or carried out, that debt found that there is a huge decrease in the backlog under the Obama administration, but they suspect that it was because the pity of lowered their standards and issued patents for a lot of shoddy patent right just to get people to go away to clear. The backlog has at the best way to get rid of somebody who keep reviling. Their patent is just grain of the patent. The get him out of your hair, while they're saying yes to decrease the backlog, but it

do a lot of shoddy patents which in turn led to the patent troll industry and a lot more burden on the courts to such all this stuff out later. Exactly the problem is the patent office has an incentive to keep lead? people file and file again, because they make money every time they generate revenue. From that year cost I mean the actual patent itself will cost you five seven hundred dollars or so that yet it keep every year and pay a little bit more maintenance fees, yeah. Well, it depends have you seen the fee schedule, yeah, there's like thirty or forty different things, you could pay fees for Leah. It all depends on what how detailed your patten as and when you are trying to get through. I will a sock about what you can in can patent. We talked a little bit about it

You cannot patent, something that is exist in the natural world like a discovery like they give it another great example: Einstein's law relativity he can't copyright that are patented right. I mean it's it's a thing he he might have named it and figured it out, but it occurred long before Einstein was around just in the solar system become, it belongs to the universe. It belongs to the snaps good ways in it. You can Patten like an industrial process like we said, computer programs, you can, but it gets a little dicey and you know if you, if you have something that you think might be patentable, patentable, patentable or not. You watching the first step. Repression is like higher in either an agent or an attorney at an age or a patent attorney in a lot of people. Do

and this is, if you like serious about this stuff, like you really think you're on a sudden. This is something you do not just saying this idea for a thing you, United Oarsmen, thousands and thousands of dollars. Unless you really think you're gonna, some rights are the first step. You want to talk about the steps of patenting, something yeah guess the first up you can do is to do a search yourself. I think Google even has a search function to search patents in the United States easily. But if not, you can definitely go to the: U S: an office site and search you some key words, the kind of generally Descrie boy year invention is: did you see off the bat if there's already something out there? That's panted and they're probably is yet its view rare, to have a truly truly unique idea threats days, but if you have thing in your like, like the guy who made the thermonuclear few

Henry actor in his grads a sixteen year old right. If you wanted to patent that, there's probably a pretty good likelihood that he could get that patent and then it's gonna be worth a ton of money. So we're going to take that kid- on him through the patent process, because it's gonna pay off form in the end despite the enough, This amount of money that is going to have to spend up front to just to get the patent protection in the United States right to he searched the database. Let's say he went to the office in person because that's what kind of kid he is in. Look through the files, and he found you know what I think, Amanda something I dont see. Anything else in here, that's super like it. If you like its novel and its innovative, and it's not obvious- and so but it's there's a lot of money on the line here sung and a higher hat and lawyer who patent agents aren't attorneys function. Similarly, but an attorney obviously has a little more power under their belts, while they have technical degree Tippit

and a law degree yeah away under the ancient just knows about the patent rights. Have the lot agree? They have the technical expertise cause. You have to be able to look at the the actual invention and understand how it works, or if somebody does China, off the something dumb like you're you're, not a divorce attorney in a patent attorney wreck, you might be Probably the shift is barely one out there so a patent lawyer will review everything and say yet. I think you are I'm something here with Europe guys nuclear fusion reactor kid, you're, you're a heck of an inventor, and I think we can take this right through the roof. So who's this guy he's. Well, you know the kid stays in the picture. Do is little huts was the guy the producer legendary producer, our right yeah, Robert Evans. That's you see this attorney s, yeah, ok, we'll work, it must nail

with nothing early filling it out with great detail, although by Our hearts are, I'm sorry, Robert Evans may say you know there is a patent here, don't waste your time! Yet it's up to you, but like really somewhere in these ways or maybe hey. This thing is super similar, but this actual process within your pen, the applying for, is super unique, so maybe should focus on that right. Then you can licences to the person whose already got the patent I had a view here and then that's the point where the kids are. I want to move forward on the smaller part or the original patent, and I wanna fill out my application. Like anything else, it's the first step has yet to fill that applications in it in

with the money, but some money, depending on who write the pay that right, it's for the for the application fee area, yeah and then after at that moment, once you file your application fee, your patent starts so that twenty year protection yeah that doesn't kickin when Europe Patten is granted like kicks. From the day you filed your application, so you can go out and put pat impending I later more nuclear fusion reactor and start selling it to people. That's right in your application. You you can the spell it out for me: you can't just throw idea there and say you guys. Do the research and see if there's anything else out there right you have the list. Any kind of potential roadblocks than prior art that may be similar for them to review. Yet, if the briefly summarize, your invention, you have to give a description of what they call the preferred embodiment, which means are you

uses thing. Basically you our like what shape? Is it supposed to take account of the components fit in together, right, and then your claims, which are this is the most important part, and this is what actually gonna be arguing about in court. If you have to go that route, your claim- and that is the actual legal description of your invention, right and your claim, is very well written if you spring for a great lawyer, Robert Evans yeah. This this claim is going to be very well written, very concise, very descriptive and so, but also sufficiently vague sure. You know, because when you do take some

the court, and you say this guy has totally writ me off. Here's my patent. Here's the description of what my thing does yeah now look at what this guy's doing. It's exactly the same thing that my patent lawyer described years ago when I filed my patent applications. So the claim is extremely important. I mean like it's basically is important- is getting the pen itself here, yet totally how much you gonna pay. That attorney all depends, of course, on how many hours they spend, but they put in this article between five thousand and twenty thousand dollars yeah. I saw more than that, I'm sure can get up to as much as you know. I'm sure corporations pay these people a lot of money. Yeah, oh good. The patent office actually has a sliding scale of some fee fee schedules so like? If you are a micro entity, I think tat, which is like you probably one guy

an inventor you're gonna pay, the least. If you're a corporation, you gonna pay the most and that's for the patent fees, not the attorneys fees right. They don't care about those, oh, but if you're corporation- and you have a lot of like a large patent portfolio- and you have an hour in the company- you have a patent attorney table a patent values are working on at anyway to have their own office in your building press offer a in a two thousand five. Article I saw a study had found that for a small size business, so probably the middle slot of the Schedule Fee It would cost about three hundred ten thousand dollars to get and maintain patterns in ten industrialized countries. While so I mean like if you ve got a thermonuclear fusion reactor here and it works.

Can a totally be worth that. Surely, when a patent everywhere, you can possibly do that you, because you're going to make a year, we are going to change the world with him. Dear and probably many sub patents is, you can create a sure. Well, you know if you can a shaky on your idea or you don't think it's gonna end up paying off that might right, then, who knows maybe a high Fullerton patent attorney. Isn't the way to go, but maybe you go the route of like air inventors help group right like there's. Actually one called invent help and some of those, some of those things are scams, elect up, invent help it Here's to be totally legitimate, not getting a minus rating on the better business Piero. What are they do east? Have you ever wisely daytime television there like inventors? Do you want to help get your invention, a market sure they they do every every step of the way like you submit your yet and I think they help you get it. Patented gotcha help you marketed. They may set up a website to sell it.

Get all honesty on tv. Yes, they had a case of the revenue down the street down the line or They may also require fees along the way right, but some of them are kinda scare me apparently invent help is not, and then other good resource for you. If you are an inventor of LE did means, would probably be get the levels in foundation that was established by that. Inventor Jerome Levels and who spent most of his career suing companies right ever using is his patented stuff. They, I think, called levels and foundation that, or you have a bunch of programmes to help inventors, especially young inventor, is good place to start out thing I we're gonna finish up on how to finish up the patent process and nothing more critiques.

Let me tell you about people who love talking and always wanted in a nutshell, PETE played since he was three and big, his mom to let him stay on the ice, why some nights he even slept in his happy skates PETE practiced in practice to one day when he was forty. Seven feet realized. He just wasn't that good, so he threw his gates in the trash but then he heard how Geico proud partner of any Joe could save him money on car insurance. So he switched and saved a bunch. So it all worked out our aid. So this kid is his turned his idea into the patent office. We said earlier it as a pretty good chance of getting rejected on the first pass I will tell you exactly why and then it's up to you.

Whether or not you want to redo it or just bail on it altogether or you know like. I said, redoing resubmitted and see how your luck runs right and the reasons for a region, can it can be myriad like? literally thirty thousand different reasons yeah. So it can be something from the patent office saying like. We think that this is a way to close to another already patented adventure. India, I wouldn't think, is necessarily an improvement. It's not useful, yet the very high level reasons they can be rejected. If that happens, then you might want to go back to the drawing board. Read more brief, we. I think it's like. We think the wording in your claim is a little too vague. We dont quite understand the scriptures. Can you make these changes to this paragraph? Your Going is missing a label like that. The patent is supposed to be flawless, yeah well written the light

few higher, penetrating they're, gonna, higher and artists to do the drawing for that submitted to the patent office. Yet so it's like really spoke the professional and well done, and so for any minute technical detail. They can reject it, but then also explain why and then you can just make the change and refine right if it's something that is kind of open to interpretation. If you have a patent attorney, your patent attorney can be like village, negotiate. This point right and hopefully get the whole thing pass through, and I wonder if you have to go back to the back of the line earth you have a new phone number you can. I don't know for, like you know, man, that's the key, isn't it you get that that secret phone number to it, person who pick us up for the first time and you can be Please help me here, and I think one thing we did mention a few

and then it gets really dicey if you work for a company- and you have an invention as an employee of that company there have been countless hanky situations I remember the one they made the movie about the guy who invented the delayed when she awoke wiper a documentary, the town Netflix they're probably is, but I think

what's his face. I know, let me tell you the guy from as good as it gets the greatly Gretchen here yeah. I didn't see the movie now, but I think that was a case of someone who works were camper worked for company or maybe you didn't work for a company, maybe just presented it to car companies, and he thinks I rubbed him off. But if you work for company, you might get the patent, but the company might still own the the product or the process that you invented. Yes, because he did it as their employ under their purview, but used my saga purse a patent for it? But maybe you might not benefit like you. What is it as a private person now and basically, if you're, an inventor good luck, getting a contract with a corporation, the United States, where you don't automatically sign over every bit of your advancing to that company? Sure or if you are, if you create anything creative Europe

probably have a work for higher contract were all of your work that you write or draw designer compose automatically belongs to the company So the ironic thing is that you are technically the creator of that worker that invention, but if you go in republish it like on your own personal website, you're infringing There has to right right that you're you're coming owns in your company can sue you to get you to to stop her to do whatever it and that's a big critique of the patent system. To is that there is now The patent in trade office can do about it, but just the way the system works right now. Corporations have all the power as far as patents go. Yet that is such a tough thing. Any here, they're just countless stories from history of so in so invented this. This thing that we all use, but they never made a penny-

for that? Yes, they did it for. I began her like the guys who invented Superman. They were paid like a hundred fifty three hundred bucks by DC and dumb. Basically to thanks a lot and over the years is DC, made tens and tens and hundreds of millions of dollars of Superman. These guys, you like with like this, isn't right here Finally, after there is enough outcry, they were granted like some some back revenue. They get a cape. Do you remember a Christmas extravaganza from last year, the guy who post rude off the Red Nose reindeer yeah. That's for sure. Montgomery war is right on hard times and the President of Montgomery Ward granted him the copyright right to root out the Red Nose reindeer vague. That doesn't happen here and that's that's. A copyright not of a patent or an invention, it isn't. I see both sides a little bit. You know. I always think that corporations the ones taking advantage, but if you are

IBM and you have they have given you the resources and paid you money to do this, then that's, you know, quit your job and go invent something on your own. Then, like you know, so I so Ex economy, both sides, but generally, I think, corporations partly sticking to the man so speaking, corporations, sticking to the man or humanity in general, is of the pharmaceutical industry again, so I said that their their very happy with the status quo and one the great criticisms of the patent system. Now, as it is, is you can get a pan? You can buy a patent and just sit on it. May I begin by a patent safer. Competitor from somebody who may be a competitor down the road right and prevent them from making it. Even if this thing Bennett

humanity. Even if it literally save people's lives, you can you can sit on a pen and apparently drug companies have been known to do that. There is one famous case with. When he called Amgen and they developed in anemia drug. That treaty an and iron deficiency and it really well. The problem is, like the body absorbed, it really quick. So you had to take large doses, fur your whole life right, apparently researchers chemist found a way to make the drug longer lasting, which in Jones mind meant, while we can't make as much money offer that selling for your drugs. So this lady was like, can I see your parents- and I can figure out a way to to latch this on your drug gangs and save lives and aunt em like when I can. Let you see our our materials, research through don't wanna make that better man, but so that in that's, that's not is over, is by

a patent sitting on it to keep people from doing it there. But that does happen like it's. It's a little with a competitive way to navigate the business climate. Well, its Josh. You work your way around that one very nicely. I something here if you might take like a year to five years to get this patent from pending to approved and let's say you put in an idea very similar to someone else around the same time. It happens all the time I that happens, I declare and what they call an interference, a dance off, and hence a and they have to actually have little trial a little trial like they serve tee. In everything's in many everything, small the trial, where they basically figure out who got there. First yeah, there's a very famous case of

Alexander, Graham Bell and Eliza Gray, basically putting in a battle for the telephone at the same time there and guess for a long time, it was whoever could prove they invented it. First in the United States was the one who got the patent rights and then I just to simplify things in March, two thousand, thirteen, the? U S changed its patent law so now the first inventor defile is the one who receives the patent right. So he even if its by a minute yeah who ever got there first, is the one who gets the patent. That's why filing that patent rights Why is this your best defense like go now? Stop press pause during it seriously Fiona dimension and scope, more thing, I'm that the old, the infamous poor man's battened report, means copyright for everyone's heard, like I gotta do, is right it out and mail it to yourself. I think I suggested there on this visit. This show before due to remember

I remember that, but that is just old wives, stale, that's not gonna hold up in court, its basically worthless, I Tuesday? Why? If like right when you create the work it automatically as copyrighted? Why would that like each dating it not make it and not just with substantiated, even more while not that number My writing a book. I'm talking about hey, I'm a did this invention in here schematic ending in a male? Ok, ok, yet so it could work for something copyrighted, but not a pen will now I mean if its, if it's just original work of art. You ve created like a book than I like. It said it's already copyrighted. Ok, so they don't even apply. Ok, some put. If you Finance company in designed in this mail, this yourself it's worthless to write. I got you basically, you can't fruit, like envelopes, can be steamed up in a manipulated like that's not going to hold up in court. You can do it if you

Taylor, take it the court. I have an extra stamp that are now at the do: that's right see it again here. If you want to learn more about patents, it's actually surprisingly interesting stuff agreed. You can type that word in the search bar has two weeks that camp and, as I said, that I feel a swimming call. This thanks for the panic attack episode. I'm glad they said everything lotta great feedback. I think this touched a lot of people because their way more common than you think, hey guys, love the episode and panic attacks. Have him in college brought on by normally, I would stress, plus the loss of a blood uncle. I would often wake up in it standing in the hollow my dorm feeling like it not. I could not breathe Sometimes I would be awake enough to think I'm dying. This need to get the hallways when will find me or my body, I sometimes I would just wake up screaming.

Helped. In the reason, I'm writing was some wonderful therapy offered through my universes health services, along with some anti depressants. In the support of my family and friends, I learn cope mechanisms to get me through my anxiety, how to express my stress. So I bottling it all up inside and the importance of taking time to rest, my mind and body with all the help us. I believe there be after a few semesters, was able to recognize that I need again later in graduate school after the birth and my second year, my much love but very implant, child I urge all college students graduate in undergrad to really take advantage of their mental health services that are offered to them. For me, food at my University Eat section was only ten bucks and remember that college. All that stuff was so cheap. Like the doctor, you to go see a shrink for like five dollars. Remember I got acupuncture for like three bucks

She really they have any idea. Now. I did that in a way through is usually there. My remit is the subdued exactly he is good with a needle, and it can also be charged to my births are account which, even though that is Mercer nevertheless, I remember there from college, but I don't remember what it was. I think the word looks familiar The health building was on campus obsessions, fit right into my schedule, and I cannot stress enough how beneficial it was for me without therapy. I would no doubt have not made it through college and grow it's cool, there's, no shame in therapy or medication to help you through tough times turns out pretty much. Everyone goes to it to some extent, and no one is weak for getting help. Admitting you need help is what makes you a stronger person in my view, and Rosalie Maltby Research at the University of Oklahoma Department of Biology. I couldn't agree more well thanks, a lot

Rosa Lee Rosalie Rosa thanks a lot rosalie. We repressive you writing in spreading their message causes to give one very pretty name as well. If you have a patent, we want to hear from you tell us what your pen is so well deal it or not, and about its pandered about. If you ve got a great idea that you haven't yet patented in that to whatever you want to do, you can try to us it s. Why escape podcast? You can join us on Facebook, dot, com, slash the view should know you can send an email to stuff. I guess the House of works outcome and, as always, to answer on the web stuff. You should know that call for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works? Dotcom, no matter what happens? I'm always a disruptor, I'm rosemary

the host of the women, a new weekly podcast from I hurt radio or I'll interview the kind of women where I dont know, I want to be or be friends with them, but then, when I realize I had a voice that I could speak about things that I really care about, whether its nuclear weapons, whether it's part of depression, I too, the women now on her radio up an apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.