Hey folks available now from a heart, a new series or scented by T mobile for business, the restless ones join host Jonathan Stricklin, as he explores he coming technological revolution with he restless business leaders who stand right on the cutting edge. They know there is a better way to get things done and they are ready, curious and excited for the next technological innovation to unlock their vision of the future in each episode will learn more from the restless ones themselves and I've deep into how the five g revolution could enable This time tomorrow is now available to the I her radio up or wherever you listen podcast. Hey everybody, to see you soon, yeah, especially first of all Toronto in Chicago in Toronto. Hats off to you guys, tickets are certainly gangbusters Chicago. I don't know what's going on with you, I know Chicago What became of you Chicago? I thought you loved us here really with your call. Dogs in your thick beaches, Yan in

That's really. All you need is a major advance. So we're going to be at the hairs theatre on July, twenty. Fourth, that is very soon We are going to be the next day in Toronto at the lovely Danforth, music on July. Twenty fifth That's not all. Is it? No, that's not all chuck were also going to be going to Boston in August for by Portland Main, which is on purpose by the way right, Wilbur Theatre in Boston, the State Theatre in Portland main we're here, the Florida for the first time, everyone Central Florida yet applause alive in Orlando in October night and then the next night October. Tenth the civic theater in New Orleans and then we're going to wrap it all up and spank it on the bottom. With our annual trio of shows at the Bell House, Brooklyn New York October, twenty three twenty four and twenty five in the twenty fifth is almost sold out. Yet so you can get tickets to all of these shows by going to ask

I asked K, live dot, com or home on the web for touring, and that will send you out to all the great little sites that have links to the tickets in info everything you need, so we will see you very soon starting this July, welcome to step you should now a production of Iheart radios, Housetop work woke new podcast, some Josh Clark nurse Trouser REACH, o Brien over there, whose Jerry over their Susan stuff, you should know bill to break it. Ok, I didn't know it was not paying attention when he said which, when we are doing- and I thought you know what I'm going to pick up on the clues well then, the right of right out of the gate. When did you have a when I said those Charles, the reach of bright and plan to break ok? Get there was pretty shark chuck amen after eleven years

Zizi is that you can read my mind. So, let's talk about the civil air patrol these is through real likely. There wasn't enough for me to stop it. To their I'm excited about this link is planned. Obsolescence is one of the things that sir, I think just annoying to people Gus. Were you were you raised with the idea of plant planned obsolescence like for you, but when you are younger no, because when I was a kid, things seem to last longer like had the same refrigerator, my entire life as I only say metallic p refrigerator, leaving it like a re. Faced like that, allow long you could have been applying. Like that? It's like the styles of changed, so just get a new front for it. That's

standing man. I didn't even know that you could do that. I mean a doubt if you still can now but earthly can't you back there like here. This is a fifty year fridge. So every twenty five years get a new thing on the front yeah? Well, if you're sitting there going a girl when checks at fifty year fridge, that's ok that's the where we live and now the point is it didn't used to be that way, things to use to last forever, never right! So what chain that's a big question, that's on people's mine and what a lot of people point too is something called planned obsolescence, which is pretty straightforward. If you think about is basically, companies deliberately making their products so that they laugh, a short amount of time in order to I give the consumer have to go back, can buy another one, much more

much sooner than you normally would things were built to last longer yeah, and there are a lot of ways at this can go down. It's not always just cite K, build it cheaper, billet at a materials, but that is certainly one way to do it. I obviously the you know with smart phones in the technology sector of the world. That's where you really hear a lot about this, because I know The people have been frustrated with smart phones and the fact that, like hey, maybe I wanna go five years with a smartphone and Have a new update make it slow? or not. Have my battery not work after three years and stuff like that right and I mean like it should- have to be like a in identity statement to have to keep a phone for five years, like your swimming against the current or sticking to the man. Ride like you should just be able to keep your phone furs as long as you like, and it

still not only continue to work, but also to be like compatible with the rest of the world. Going on around it? I am still does not the what does not the case. That is not how things are made, especially in the technology sexually gears. Right and here's. The thing is, it's like this is something that company is not gonna admit to now, not against the law. Some people say it's a myth and it's just like tinfoil hat territory. Other people say no, it clearly totally happens in other p, even say, yeah happens, but this is for the economy did keep people making stuff all the time right. So there's. This idea of you know is planned obsolescence, a real thing and if it is real, because I think you can touch with that. Third group. Some people are like add is real, but it's not like to

were it and out of like ascended, avarice or exploitation is just kind of part of the world we live in these days. I think people there are like now it is real and it is deliberate and it is out of avarice in it little Athos, the think small. First but there's a lot, there's a lot wrong with it right here. So this this early light bulb story is pretty interesting way back when Thomas Edison invented a light bulb wait. Eighteen hundreds that people could use in their homes used carbon filaments, which were eight times thicker than the tungsten filaments. That came like later, like three decades later, so they things lasted a long time, and built a last in can't believe, I'm forty years old, and I never had heard of the centennial light, which is a light

by four nineteen o, one that is still working in California. Yeah, a fire station in California, in its on almost all the time is only be they turn it off. For thirty five years, at a stretch now, you re, probably wouldn't want to turn it off. At this point, I would die we had Probably the only reason its workings guess it doesn't know it doesn't have to write they ve got like the scotch tape over the light, switch They do not turn on phenomena. Damn. Now, though, I saw that it's down to about a night light for, what's or so, it's been burning for a hundred and eighteen years, give it a bright. Hey man, I'm not, I'm not knock innocent. Any allied he's my very little old light, buddy now my presence but yeah I mean that thing point as they were built to last. An initially. This is because electric companies installed maintained. All these systems, including, like hey, you, need a new bulb like, will come and take care of it for you,

and I got shifted to the consumer and they were alike pay. And they literally were like hey, because there was a concerted effort that wasn't dislike. Some abstract thought, though, something called the Phoebus cartel. The nineteenth twenties when all these electrical Chinese from around the world and bold manufactures got together and litter they colluded in said: hey, let's make light bulbs not last as long as we can sell more collusion. Can you believe that actually believe, it's very nice that you really like they got together like they sent some letters or smoke. Some cigars are happen to have like a conversation at a club or something like that they met in Geneva Switzerland to hold a secret meeting to form a light bulb cartel here to make light bulbs last a shorter amount of time, so they could so more. It's just happened there I mean that's, that's very much

proof if you're like planned obsolescence in really a thing like there's prove that one point it was definitely a thing. It was a thing one of the earliest industries around in the post industrial age yeah. So so the light bulb cartel kind of it indefinitely like that. Just kicked off everything where rose like oh yeah, what we're gonna do from now on there. It's almost like the impression I God is that this is a An independent idea that, with this kind of carved up throughout the course of the twentieth century, but the next people they hit upon it, I think No, it's entirely possible at these guys we're all sharing info. You know where the light bulb. As we like. Hey you. U karmic! you're being idiots. Here's what you need to do I say and places in the cat skills every summer. That's what I would guess. In that young upcoming comedian, Henny Young man do less so

the automakers were the first to say had on at next in specifically a guy named after peace loan. Who was a groundbreaking early. President of General Motors, who said, I got an idea. We could sell way more cars if we just make little updates here there every year to the same car, but just change it out enough, so that you want the newer car. It's newer words flash years better than car you own. So maybe after a couple of years, somebody will take their car that still works just fine and traded in for a new one and he's the guy who came up with that gathers called dynamic obsolescence. Let me now we take it for granted because that's all you hear about is the new model year, but previous to that, mean I'd love to do a show on the early, auto industry. I guess that dismayed cars and they were called the whatever and maybe when did they make new ones, every five or six

years when they had a real innovation. While he had the idea in like the twenties or thirty? So they there were. They wouldn't have been cars for that meeting very long before them, but I think it was just like the model. Sea or the model, a worthy, the box with wheels you now to which all of those were yeah. They actual term, though planned obsolescence was in a pamphlet for the first time one thousand nine hundred and thirty, two written by real estate broker named Bernard London in this pamphlet, was called. You know, it's nineteen slash, thirty, two! If it's like the big pamphlet writing days, you don't get enough of those anymore. You really don't see too many pamphlets outside of like it, a government office or something right or if you're in Vegas, and it's just got you know, Those of us here those kind of pamphlets right but this was a nineteen. Thirty tunas called ending the depression through planned obsolescence It's all right there it's in the title

time has ever been used, and this was a plan for for products to include artificial expiration date, so The idea was, if you're consumer and you continue to use that product beyond that date, sword like taking a old pillar drinking old milk, except you would be charge. Attacks like hey you're still using that fridge, it's two years passes dates. You gotta pay attacks on that now right and it did not take hold surprisingly or not surprisingly, right there's. Supposedly from where I saw others. Fifteen copies of that pamphlet known do exist still in their all in libraries, and there were twenty originally raid, exactly but their Bernard London. He had you know he had kind of an idea, but it was Miss P. There was in the wrong place. It was like nobody wants a taxi, Sumer, for using an item they paid for fair and square. That's that's, not gonna, be a very popular idea, so he had.

He was kind of on the right path, but he founded tree any sort of barking up it and it was the wrong one. You know I mean yeah but that was in fact same year. There were two other guys, Roy Sheldon in this great name. Egmont Aaron's and they wrote a book that wasn't for us that pamphlet called consumer engineering colon earlier of Colin Title, a new technique for prosperity. And they called it creative waste and, just basically flat out said we should make things that are less durable, because you know We're gonna, buy more stuff right now. The ninety Thirty, two yeah, which I mean, lays the foundation for the consumer economy that we live in today, like that's it right there. These guys came up with the basis of it. Yet me thinking about like when you, when you there are places that make really awesome things that horse, like their selling point

is. This is really built last right. Well, Walter you know some clothing or something. Now there are these. There are these high and, while at makers now there are sound like this is the one that you can have for sixty years. Like your father, I don't know about that, but they often say things like you know: use military grade of fabric this or that- and I think this just like back then they to use the highest grade right in calling you military grades and or fancy, but That really means is we you stuff like they used to, because it just left the now only the military does that kind of thing you know get night think you're absolutely right. That's it that's what Our London employ Sheldon an egg, my errands, who fear that the foundation of their ideas, even though they were separate ideas, was that things were made to well back then, and

our London's idea was well. You can just keep making I'm really well, but do you have to say that you can't use it beyond this this date, which would work but Roy, shall then Enigma Aaron said? Well, we can go. Opposite way and just make stuff less durable right. And sell more of it. That's the whole point to stimulate economy. Remember both these were written during the depression and they their idea was to stimulate the economy by artificially creating report Customers that otherwise wooden exist because the stuff that that you would go by is too durable like if you go by a hose and that hose is going to, ass you for the rest of your life and you're, not in a business where you need, multiple hoses you're, just a homeowner you're, not the whole business you're a homemaker, while I'm actually referring specifically to a hope that my dad bought from some years back in the sixties still got it

he still had until the nineties and it sprung the leak and Sears used to guarantee everything that they sold for a lifetime. My dead, through Sears any gave him another hose in the ninth US right. So, but the idea of a hose last thirty, something years, let alone being replaced with it. You know for free when it when it breaks like that was that was the problem. Stuff has just made too well, and you can actually go on the lake at Sea and Ebay and sites like that today, Chuck and there's like a whole the whole like sub culture. I guess of people who buy vintage appliances, idea that still work they were they. They work like they did the day. You bottom like. I saw some be mixer from nineteen thirty and says: like works perfectly. Well, has a few scout's honor, that's it from nineteen. Thirty that coming up on a hundred years ago, yet it also waste two hundred and seventy five pound

in a case is your so you'll have you pay a lot of money to have it shipped, but yet I mean, crazy Cosette. Was this we planned obsolescence was in the thirties and Fortys when we think of that's when they were making great stuff and right now. It's progressing point. Where is cyclists cyclist make pure garbage right, but it won't last a year the point originally was that there would stimulate the economy if you could sell the same person stuff mould four times over their life, rather than making something that lasts a generation to that they only have to buy the one hope for their lifetime right. Well, you're dead, his tuna now, the herbal elvis- and there was one of those one whose Clark Why should we take a break? I think so. I was sick of it can we can come back and talk about a man named, Brooks Stevens right after that,

problems, its human nature, to hate problems, but why is that, after all problems, inspire us to mend things bend things make things better? That's why so many people work with IBM on everything, from city traffic to ocean plastic, new schools to new energy flight delays to food safety, Smart loves problems IBM put smart to work, visit, IBM dot com, slash Smart, to learn more by us, so decide is out there planned obsolescence,

It's been written down, it's a term really became more common in the nineteen. Fifty is even those first written about an early nineteen. Thirty seven and this is where a man name Brook Stevens enters. He was a Milwaukee industrial designer he did a lot of stuff. He worked in the automobile industry, he worked in the appliance industry and basically his whole jam was, No, no. We need to make things obsolete and not last very long, because this good for industry right, let's go get that bread, yeah go get them in key people work and keep people make and stuff at a nineteen fifty four advertising conference. He gave a speech where he said instilling in the buyer, the desire to own something alone, they were a little better. A little sooner than is necessary. End quote yeah to write their just make it a little crap here a little for and you'll sell more of them over a long period of time again,

the long view of it and like if you are looking at a strictly from an economic sense like an academic, since this makes by total sense, is perfectly normal and rational in a kind of a good idea, but it when you put it into practice, we found, Is there is a lot of problems that start to emerge pretty quickly, yeah and emerge so quickly that Brooke Stevens, you know, gave that very famous people famous among industrial designers, but he gave me that speech in nineteen fifty four by one thousand nine hundred and sixty Six years later, there was a popular book by Guy named Vance Packard, called the waste bankers, and it was basically about all the problems come from that kind of mentality that planned obsolescence, creates all the waste

so soon with the all the unnecessary consumerism of keeping up with the Joneses. That emerges like just six years after that speech, so really quickly. People started to see the problems with planned obsolescence like right out of the gate, yeah this vans Packard, I think maybe we could try and do a short stuff on yet easily, just kind of reading up on him. He was a sort of a pre of Nator Social critic and I guess NATO was a little more toward like public safety, but Vance Packard. He wrote a bunch of school books and essays I would call the hidden persuaded is tackled the retiring industry in subliminal rising and stuff like that he's like the arch enemy of ever Bernice, I am those one call Annesley carbon naked society, which headed you in the nineteen sixties, I think about consumer privacy. Yeah. So like know ahead of his time, yeah

and then the lasting he wrote in nineteen. Eighty nine was called the ultra rich coal and how much is too much how much is too much year, so he die a few years later, like up until the very end, was kind of fighting the good fight her saying what a you know, what a wasteful invasive growth society that were building here in the United States. Yet there is an interesting definitely the kind of author that you know guys gum Gladwell in Friedmann and all of them sorted INA, followed in the footsteps of, but he can't laid the groundwork that kind of reporting on you know, Canada, ugliness of the this, the society that sold to us. I think we should definitely do a short of on him. Ok, some pinkies, where peace, where her earlier Pinky sculled, had soothing them

here frightening and should be low frightening, I'm frightened by as they feel, sweaty guys, think Josh's dead. My this follows off onto no problem. The funny thing is as long as you can keep on getting at migrants, mainly for a whole year, like corpse judge you by me, like a steel, Rod d go in, and I said I had for the Christmas yeah, but to buy when every couple years, because they don't last like that, it's true they don't last like these, That's an opening a! I really really want to say this chuck because I'm sure to assist- some of our younger listeners. We think a couple I now geese whose like they don't make it like the? U sucre, no, it's proven. They don't make thing like they used to its, not just people like pining for the guy old days or anything like that like there is a definite progression of increasing proteins

among the stuff. You lie in the old of shortening the lifespan and durability of the things we by its just happening. Yeah, it's funny. When I see stuff on the media about people complaining about their fridge, that doesn't work this or that, unlike what about the lemon law, I am always like uh, that's cute, ensuring you're real far with the lemon law, although You look into that verse, shortstop Ducas! There is such a thing, I just don't know how you know pining for the good old days or anything we talked about it before. I may be where we are, we could we deepen did ashore years ago I wanna extend teens man. I harking back to that Chopin. Frequently like whenever I'm offered an extended warranty MIKE wow. That sounds like a really good deal what did we say in the extended warranty episode? Oh yes, never you don't you never worth. If I remember correctly, are eight

should we each had a little bit about some of some of the worst offenders these days, get first up on the tea ball. Tee is apple. Apple is in the news allied and is very much at the centre of the talk among the sceptics and on the sceptics websites about their evil plan. To if you on their machines every couple years through you know, updates that slow down your phone, which was proven true, yeah, others class action lawsuit against them, for so here's what happens if you live under a rock apple got they send out an update years ago and the update was shot. And they admitted that it did slow the phones down but their whole response was hey. This is because the battery stinks, we're trying to make your battery last longer, so we're slow and some things down in order to give you a better battery life and then here but will do everyone we're so sorry, we're gonna

through you new battery for fifty dollars cheaper, for twenty nine dollars have seventy nine. So they rode eleven million batteries and twenty eighteen did they re I didn't know that yeah up from about you know, replaced for twenty nine dollars, apiece show from one to two million on in an average year, because on another there was an Iphone, but have it doesn't have a look? switch on the back that you just pop a little thing and put a new battery in that's another big part of planned obsolescence I will talk about. Is there is a control over the product, even after its purchased area that they want to control through repair through everything. So I was looking up, lawsuit exerted nowhere landed and I think it's still going on and the late article I read was from February. That said, basically apple is SK whirling away money, because they're gonna lose this thing,

because I don't know if you ve ever seen an Iphone but have it does have a little switch on the back that uses The opened up a new account. They went down, the bank said just call it loss it the count Here's the thing with Apple, it's not just the update, like anyone who has bought a laptop from them like me, lately or one of the newer phones in your like. I wait a minute I can't plug like have done Since I had my walk man, I can't plug my headphones. Did the sing anymore without buying a little dongle or I can't plug in a usb port. Cuz is none unless I get some little adapter, they also sell right. So that's a classic hallmark. Of planned obsolescence is creating a new or model that is compatible with older model. So if you want to keep using the older model you can after Shell out, so money one way or another or

even if you buy the newer model, it's kind of it even bigger slap in the face to shell out even more money for additional peripherals like chargers or headphones, or something like that to make them it had was just making stuff in compatible with older versions. It's it's a it's a big part of planned obsolescence. Yet you know, I wonder how much money they made on the little headphone adapter. Oh man, just like nine hundred and ninety nine I've got one and I'm like you know how I could really use another one of those, because I know the worst thing that can pop some money to way human another or even of headphones, buy for, like you know the flight on Delta and then one for your phone because they have more money and on tat I mean to have to keep up. A two says I had found is basically as horrible as it gets on. Probably skinny their visions. It's it's a it's a big part of planned obsolescence. Yet you know, I wonder how much money they made on the little headphone adapter. Oh man,

stop watch movies and tv altogether. Yet sticking to the man the other one other big offender that really gets my vote and I know we are all goes complaining here: that's fine but wine for, like you, know the flight on Delta and then one for your phone, because they have two different ends on past I mean that wasteful and environmentally damaging scams on the planet, yeah which I didn't know about this. I've got to I'm just going to go ahead and buzz them. Cuz, I'm pretty proud of what they what we got fit an Epson printer at home and it has like reservoirs that you feel ink and then hold a ton of ink escrow, unlike our the bottle. And there's no cartridges involves or anything like that, either the bottles you refill it from her recycle bullets is good before we had cartridges, but they didn't have this particular component, which is a smart

right. I had thought of what I'm trying to say is. I had no idea existed until I researched. This puts some printers inkjet laser printers home printers. They cartridges have eight a little ship on em, which is, I guess, what you pull the tape off of when you loaded into the printer like a new cartridge, and it actually talk to the printer and says here How much ink I have laughed a words. What are you gonna do this Friday? I gotta go no job coming, excuse me and then eventually, the ink level gets down to a certain amount where the smart chip tells the printer no more printing. They ve The preset amount, not the amount where they actually run out of ink, but the amount that the company determined is enough. You can use, you can go by another cartridge now and these cartridges also the smart chips prevent you from using other companies cheaper, knock off cartridge area, because the chips monk communicate with the printer. So it's like the parameters doesn't know the there

and you can't refilling their design not to be refilled, so they have to be thrown away you have to go by another cartridge yet had happened before in the past, where I get down to. If I'm putting something out just like simple black text. And it starts command Brown and then stops them like I'm. Ok, if it's a little brown bread, I decide what General printer. I know. So that there are at the very least, I can tell you about Ex, a printer out there that has reservoirs that you can refill with bottles in no smart ships, Mackay Gimme some money. Ups, the auto industry is, do you now still Canada, the same thing for that they start so many years ago, which is discontinuing parts that could keep car running for a longer time make, those minor cosmetic changes for that new model year

retiring models of cars that are really really popular just because They want to bring out something new make it harder to fix your old car, so repairs took like we kind of teased earlier. That's a huge part of planned obsolescence like if you're the company that controls the market on your parts and who can repair you have your products with those parts. You have a little basically saying like. I can see this product through after I sell after to the customer, to ensure that it is that experiences just their artificially short life. Yeah and that the things so Manning about this is you can just here in the meeting rooms. You know yeah that that, like and here's the best thing guys, we control the parts we control the repair like the only we dont control, is the shipping, and maybe we can some deal with red x on that right to get a little kick back again.

If we had another really happened, some just making it our probably does now I've got my tinfoil had on, but is and just hear it in the meeting rooms and that's what so frustrating as it is just this is use of greed with no regard. The consumer at all, right you said, lay it out. Basically, we know in explicit terms if your company and you make a product, you can control their product after you sell it by saying. If you take this product, this product breaks and you take it anywhere, but where we say you can't, you say like to the apple store or an authorized repair shop. You voided the warranty, there's no warranty after that, you just you just voided it, and by doing that, they can say they control what parts are used, which means They can be the only people who manufacture the parts that are used yet

you say, can I will get it fixed under warranty three year than there? Are we don't cover that under their hopeful horse tee more on, so that with the repair parts controlled they can, they can raise the price or lower the price? they can adjust. However, they want to make it so that its actually as expensive to repair as it It is by another one or close to it to this basically nudge, to arrive, this throw this went away and get it gets the new model, or they can also. This is a really big one. Specially. Also in the auto industry they can, they can start making those parts which are. Only parts that you can use to repair so it ultimately eventually becomes impossible to repair that thing, because all the parts, the finite amount of parts that, wherever produced too to repair him or all used up, there's no more parts veiled will go by the newer model. Did you see that used you go than the new used? You

Now someone put a you go on Ebay that had four hundred and eighty miles on it while and had, and garage since it was? You know since nineteen, eighty eight or whatever. How much do they want for nine grand is what it's all for, while which Nine grand plus you gotta, get that go and again just it's been city therefore, that many years it's right, clearly not road ready, but it was cherry in it. I think it's gonna funny that some no doubt tech, brow with a little too much money wanted at the most ironic car this gap. That is as ironic as it gets for that every time you're about you goes Chuck. I am reminded of member that sooner live commercial for the Adobe. Now it was like the first car under a thousand dollars and made actively Meda clay. So when you can defend a varied, is pouring water on it all back. If only as, unlike that that fill Hartman error is the

opposite a planned obsolescence. It is clothing, is the same deal that they make and again there are some clothing companies anything more than ever now in recent years. On that more than ever but more and then in the last twelve, here there are companies that army really well made close yeah, but there they're, not cheap, There are many many more companies huge huge stores and big brands that are just pumping out cheap close because they like, first of all the styles change, so you want something you don't want anything it's gonna last more than a year to anyway right, but my boy and we're out of, brands microbes, keep it going but I was at the younger. You could buy a pair of Levi's and have those four a long long long time, yet a russian would trade you a you, go for here equally And now I can't

apparently lies for probably five months before I got a big rarely in them and TAT said it's sad Levi Strauss rolled over his grave on that- and I know man Cosette use- that was the thing is just like. These things are tough as leather sure, alas, too, so long like there's nothing better than inheriting. Dad's old Levi's, an like you know, or five months here that that's pretty said Is there a middle ground? Can I get five years yeah five years would be pretty give for some Jean I take it. Is put em, although I do less than I did before, but my dear, it always wear out or my two thighs, my big fat thighs, rubbed together. Sure that's what go first year, but then you can that, for a little while, until one day you can't write, it is hoped that the day comes in uniting public, I'm gonna patch. These guys are still comfortable, but you shouldn't have to chuck shouldn't have to this committee.

When a patch these you wanna, know another racket near yes, or should we? the break in talk about it. We could take a break if you want, or we can wait, you know, yeah, we'll go we'll finish later racket. This is fun by the way I'm having fun like complaining about how stuff doesn't last like a used to how about the college textbook bracket, okay, hey this is a new edition from the previous year. Oh, what's different, the page numbers right so by the new and yet not the used one, yet, which is I mean, like you, return, follow along and class. It's kind of maddening has the the information, usually not that much, but it's enough just throw everything off right right, whereas they, if they just put these things, is like a son men are in Appendix II, something back. Then you could just or even to sell the additional stuff separately. The you could be a lot better, yet it is said the little man

but for eight hundred and ninety nine and probably make money. Fifteen copies. How about the toy industry? So the toy industry frequently guilty- and this isn't the case across the board, but it kind of is of a specific subcategories of planned obsolescence, called contrived durability, garbage product, they basically the tone history is the only one that does it, but they're the ones that come to mind when you talk about this in this is purposefully using inferior parts that just going to last for very long at all, especially the functioning parts, the stuff that moves or where the most stresses is anybody, forgotten. A switchblade com been a half an hour. Is opening a closing opening it in closing it, and then it breaks on the fiftieth time here that comb was most likely made through a process of contrived durability right and it's a big problem, part

for. Our part of the problem. Is that another really good example of a type of item that is just the? Where are you going to take a switchblade come into the switchblade com, repair and if you, if you did, how much would they charge? You would be any more than you paid. You know for like that, ping pong balls at you manage to get into like a guy fishbowl where you won the switchblade come from. I don't think so ray and actually we'll talk, little bit about some of the problems after this break here in a sack but just an early sporadic early shout to the the death of the repair person yeah and died there. There are still some other things, but like try and find a tv rip, sharp near you. There you try to find one that open to is the other thing. We can still find them in any given large city, but it sir

like it used to be where it was just like. Oh in any doubt now. There's a locksmith there's some Taylor. There's a tv repaired person then any kind of repair shop. Yet they are very, very few and far between, but there may be changing its will see. Let's take break get them. I had a lot of anxiety building up cuz. I knew that breakers looming Madame paper ends. We want to talk to you about the future of phone service because it is here and it's called visible yet for

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What line terrible, bundled blindness as a matter of maternal mortality, better hurry Chuck, so I feel equipped. Hit upon the idea that planned obsolescence can be problematic. But let's talk specifically about the problems it does produce right, yeah. I mean one of the big will. First of all, I saw some stats just so people know we're not just being angry. Ok, Those who study about four years ago, in two thousand fifteen by a company in Germany, the Turco Institute, no e on the other institute, which is so german, looking really its institute, otherwise they found. Obsolescence was on the rise percentage of electrical and electronic products sold that were replaced because they broke within five years rose from three and a half per cent

thousand four to eight point: three percent in two thousand twelve and then household appliances, which is one of the big gripes for people closer. I dollar items that you want to less Nina fifteen years large household appliances had to be replace within five years, grew from seven percent to thirteen percent yeah doubled between two thousand forty thousand thirteen, unlike You drive it. This is a really rare study. Most of the evidence about this stuff is anecdotal right, like if you ever get your hands on an appliance repair guy who comes they will talk ad nauseam about the house. They literally don't make things like they used to and that the delay banner is like two to three there's five years if you're lucky, but prices are still real,

high like it used to be like. Okay, I'm going to shell out some money for a really good fridge and you can tell basically by the price of the fridge. How long is it going to last that ended a decade or two ago yeah, you can still pay a significant amount of money for a fridge that has a one year warranty and it's gonna last three to five years, even though spend a significant amount of money. It's crazy yeah, sometimes as applies repair people get specifically I don't know if you ever had this happen, where they say they want to say like these things. Your junk now though say like. Oh, you know what they started doing is four years ago. They started making this part out of plastic and the same repair over and over and over now write an and it costs eczema. For them to even come out and diagnose the problem right x, amount to put in the new part, and then you also have to pay for the part, depending on the appliance Amene, like it's a fifteen hundred

two thousand dollar refrigerator. You know five hundred box, my worth it rather than replacing it, but you're you're, fifteen hundred, refrigerators just became a two thousand dollar refrigerator like eighteen months later right. So that's part of the problem. The cost of repair when it is available can be a problem, but if you're refrigerator does manage last five years and they start making replacement parts for four years after four years, you're on mere out of luck after five years, because you can't repair it anymore, like we talked about yeah we had a dishwasher that broke a lot from the first year that we had it and it got, that point where I kept paying to repair it, and getting angrier, and you know Emily was eventually like neither one of us like I'll. Just get the noon issues I do were spending more like we could have bought the noon for what were spinning repairs because you're being stubborn about saying this thing

at last longer. But you get in that sort of conundrum where you like you, don't know what the right thing to do is yeah yeah an event we like just about anybody's, can be like fine. I've more money and it would have cost or replace yeah somebody's everybody's going to cry uncle, Julia over used to some some people. Do it faster than others, you know, one of the other things with planned obsolescence is a company. Can you know it's very rare that accompany is just that company. Usually there owned by some huge goober company downs, any of that companies that brands I voted. Yes, are you just of the inner something it's a bad rap. You can just right that brand and slap your name on it and it's the kind of the same so you don't know you don't know anymore if it's a good or a bad brand right, and if you just have a couple mega brands and they're all doing the same thing with their multiple brands, if they all alone and that which is their just all kind of

I can't less maybe three to five years. Then that means that there is actually technically no bad brand they're. All bad brands is also no good brand either. And they just trade on these brand names that you were raised to hear from your parents or from repairman or whatever, that that's a good brand, but this brands not Good and then you have like a bad experience with that bran, so you switch to another brand, but there's a pretty good chance that those same Those two brains are still owned by the same company to whom it the same fears, giving them the money. Ultimately, Yeah, I'm sorry. This filled with so many anecdotal stories, but I was tv sharpen reason and there was a tv that seem like a really deal and that got good ratings on all the places, but You start reading the customer experience and like a lot of

or saying this as a banding issue, where you can see like lines on the screen when the screen is darker and stuff like that, oh yeah yeah, it was ubiquitous. It was all over the place in these reviews, and a single one of them, the manufacture would reply and say boy Sorry, you had this experience. We ve never heard of this in its certainly- outlier so to get in touch with this and injustice. Manning psych, no man, like thirty percent these review say this, and I say that Sometimes when I'm when I have to call about thing like that: man. I know it's not like I'm not the only person. This is happening to yes all over the internet and there are like well arm. You know where no love share stuff, like that, sir, I have the same in my experience. So choose

One thing that has gotten better over the last couple decades is customer service. Do you think yeah, I think, for the average person the the companies want to please customers enough, that they, They make the experience of dealing with them better than it was before. I think boy had think about that. Ok, I think maybe some companies I've had the experience with some that are so big that you get the feeling that lay they think it costs more to give a hoot right. Yet I think that's definitely true out there, but there are so many like. I think smaller companies and text startups come from this place of like a week, the customer really? Well, that's just do it just seems to be more than there was before, whereas before it seems like it was all big companies you had to deal with, and they all had terrible customer service, I think the night these- were like the zenith of bad customer service. If, if I'm not mistaken,

So so there's a really important point. There were were kind of dancing around here right, like you know, thirteen percent of large appliances, breaking in five years and in having to be replaced. Like eight point, three percent of of smaller. Electrons are all electronics, those things being thrown out it. It doesn't sound like that much you actually translate into numbers you talking millions of things of items of products that are being thrown away, the because they broke and the vast majority of those things are just like. I said, thrown away there now psychology in the United States, six per cent of small appliances are recycled, which is a paltry amount that means. The rest is going to landfill, yeah and its especially egregious because Not only is all this stuff getting tasks but e waste, or some of the biggest offenders

as far as environmental damage. So you ve got through hundred and fifty million cartridges and the United States Tom then landfills every year. Yet you know three hundred forty, eight million of which are even empty right, because the smart ships you get you know, refrigerators being thrown out. We did get a new refrigerator a couple years ago, even though our old one, there we bought use was still working, it was kind of a workforce, but we sold it and I was like you sold it really. Cheap was like about this thing. Is it lasted us ten years with problems, like so someone's getting a good old workhorse here for a couple hundred bucks nice So you know we try and recycle our stuff or sell it or donate at these days early set on fire. It's, not somebody else's problem the Good NEWS is, though, I want to stop Pooh Pooh, as there are places in the world that are working on this and trying to change things yeah

not here in the United States, of course, but in Europe they are working on. Creating some standards, there's a program called Eco design directive, which were basically open up regulation of industry based on Their. Whether trying to do is set new standards, durability and repairability ability like make it by law right yeah like they're there. The resource efficiency is whether kindly give energy efficiency. How much water does that derives your years? This is how long does this thing last, like put it on the label right exactly kind of like them? Nor does London's idea, but rather being an expiration date to where you start to get charged for using it beyond that date. The right how well this one's gonna last five years is it my seven, I'm gonna go with the seven year, one raina and because of the resource, they think use the seven year, one is more efficient by definition. In the five year, one in least you can

in choice as a consumer right here in the states like us, the federal government has in doing anything, but when it comes to the aids. There are some groups. There's one movement called right to repair started in the UK and is now catching hold thinking. Two thousand eighteen or eighteen states that introduce right to repair bills, some of which have taken hold, some of which have it, but it basically requires companies to me it possible to repair their devices on their own or take it to a repair, mom and pop repair shop. And not have like the warranty voided yeah these these laws all kind of their different, but they have in common. The idea that ok, if you guys, are gonna, build junk at least make it easier for them to be repaired like design. Them, so a customer can repair them themselves or take them to an unauthorized repair shop and those repair shops should be able to get

hands on parts that are as universal as possible, and you guys the manufacturer should be supplying repair shops with repair manuals for them. The reference like stop doing the opposite of everything we just said it in order to make it hard to repair your stuff, if put out junk if you want, but let us repair, that's kind of what the gist of those bills are yeah. You know like we mention before there is a segment of people that think that firmly believe that this is all great for industry. It's all great for the economy, it keeps an me of employees working at these cell phone companies and smart phone companies. Designers and engineers because of that cycle. So That's one way to look at it. If you turn over goods really Equally, then, that's a lot more stuff that needs to be manufactured in a lot more truck strike and things, and you know what it might be an environmental nightmare, but those trucks are yeah.

But I mean, on the one hand, though it I do agree with the idea of saying. Ok, we we want to replace. We want people to buy a new phase, every three years. We have to give them a reason to buy a new phone three years. One of the outcomes of that is that technological innovation, that that is happening as a result of that, like just you, know, there's multiple phone companies, all scrambling from the chair so they're trying to our innovate one another and justify customers going in replacing their phone, but barely well yeah because there's other roused they can take, they can take. You know the the fast fashion, clothing, in just do cosmetic updates to it or like the easy Bake oven it all. It does the same thing, actually the same thing from the beginning of its invention till today it was just mainly cosmetic changes that were made to it over time to keep up with the times just like fashion. If you do that with a phone

new technology than yet you're, slob you're you're not doing your job. But ideally, if you really the new version of a phone every few years, and it is just way better than then the phone before, that's ok, yes, there still remain. Actually problem in the waste associated with it that can be dealt with, but at least technology is being pushed forward, at least is not just a total scam. You know me yeah, there's. Also, the idea of value engineering like kind of walking that line as a manufacturer to not make junk, but also to make something affordable for a consumer in it. If we built a card to the last seventy five, there's no one would be able to afford it because it would all be military, great materials or the same thing with a phone like if this technological progress is happening so that a phone actually become obsolete, whether planned or otherwise. In a couple of years, it makes more sense to build phones with cheaper parts that are

in the last forever because then you have to replace a five hundred dollar phone every few years, rather than a five thousand dollar phone every few years to write and that in the Vienna. The final point kind of is the consumer does have a little bit of responsibility. It's a little. All of our faults because might want the new phone in that color one your other. When works great yeah there was daddy by the same Eco Institute. That said of all replacement purchases for things like fridges and why, machines, were motivated by just having and newer better unit, even though their old one is still fine right. So, like manna, that's kind of on the consumer adamant that lasted Chuck

two thousand twelve, more than sixty percent of tvs that were replaced. We're still functioning MIKE drop TVS nets that certainly a big one. You blaming the question is: did this like ravenous consumer society, develop as a result of planned obsolescence or did planned obsolescence, develop it to keep up with this ravenous consumer society? That's a question view, that is a big question plug the answer that we don't have the answer well. Well, we try to figure it out how bout instead islets listen to some listener meal from Chuck here. This is a very, very we ve mail from a gentleman named Tom about his daughter, hey guys think, being a positive influence on my daughter grace. She recently graduated from high school will be attending the University of Minnesota Twin cities, college of Biological Sciences,

majoring and cellular an organism. All you know that word is made up. A new word physiology I guess I've, never organism worried Because of your shows here, he says: she's, even making new words there, because of your shows, unique inside to learning your. U fan the flames of desire for knowledge that you routinely for some awesome and cool knowledge and educate It can be, listening later than sheet to try and listen to an absurd each weight and tried to listen to an absurd each way from work every day. I have heard you read listener males, other parents, that compliment you always give us something to talk about their kids as so too in our home. I recently education to go skiing in Colorado. We stopped at a pony express station in Nebraska its awesome your influence, is beyond academics, do she's involved in her community and articulate educated opinions. Or her passions shields are an eighteen. This file

looking for devoting many, the exam buzz you, given your progress of empowered, her take positions on social issues, I know you know, I hope you know the importance and influence of your show guys. We look forward to your when Chicago NICE, yes in the family are common to from. Gordo annoy to Chicago thanks Summit was Tom stories. They would get grace grace grace. Thank you very much for making us look so good. And good luck in school congrats. Look without you, vague major, we'll see you guys in Chicago. I guess I said if you want to get in touch with us like grace and Tom, did you can what chuckle and establishing Oda common check out our social links to her, and then you could also just send us an email, and if you want to do that, send it to stuff podcast Iheart radio. Dotcom study should know its production

I heard radios how stuff works for more podcast, my heart radio, I heard radio apples cast over every listen to your favorite ships. I'm so it which I am a man of the Elles. Hey there, I'm Bellamy Young and today I'm gonna talk about what I wore when I want to show for scandal. Welcome to what I want the production of glamour and I heart radio. I'm your house, the Paris summit in each week, I'm sitting down with a woman, I find fascinating to talk about what she wore during a pivotal moment in her life. Listen to what I wore when on the Iheart Radio, app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.