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stuff, you should know from howstuffworks dot com, the podcast, I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant stuff. You should know the podcast, not the least of which is membered by Jerry. I have a bad cold, yet my brains not functioning clawing yet

Not the old days? Were you have the six weeks of cold right? Hopefully this will be a couple of episodes is here with us there, but to make up for it, I have all mighty. Finally, its constant pendulum. That's right! I got things from one was the get all toothed up yesterday, feeling good. The eight months is over it. Like click your teeth together for everybody, I'm afraid you are you like the precious yeah. I got a treat them very carefully and I got fitted for a bite guards like my grandma teeth at night doesn't keep happening, so things are looking good they're giving come on up Jack.

That's funny you has a vague our two from groaning, her teeth. Yeah so too are the most significant people in my life vanity, but can t did she butterfish anymore? I don't do she bought me now. Take up my stresses on my body. Yet as our short nails do they hurt doings ache. Now they sometimes I

overdo it. They do. If I think, when I caught my nails and I feel a little too short near they just eight for a day or so afterward, there were two habit of always done it yeah like, since you can remember here, a war that the bitter polish for a while when I was a kid to transfer to drive through it also better still must fight a kind of like we re here. The pardon me that hate myself love that people so weird chuckle sunburnt another have it. I haven't that humans have had for a very long time and there is the habit of using animals as models for humans standards for humans. But we want to test new things. Find out new things about ourselves, the alike. Will this kill me? Let's put it on animal rights,

Does the heart or the lungs actually pamphlet around the body, cut a dog open and find out there that we ve been doing it for a very long time. Yet, in this article came with its own on intra story, which was pretty interesting. I thought we haven't done one of those in a long time that used to be like a standard aspect of this year. Now I just babble the yet it is sheer. What's gonna lies or day pretty much sorry, everybody must be a real, let down. I think my should we do this. I am sure I must go back in time back to nineteen thirty seven and as a company called a farmer company called S E mass NGO,

at a tendency and they had a great, almost wanna, say wonder drug there was any by antibiotic that worked really well in its powdered form, and people started claiming that we love the stuff, but sure would be great if we could put it as a drop under my tongue. Instead, right, I likely Quizzer nothing on powders church like that weirdo Richard Petty, who just takes goodies powder? Lets me. I love that over. Do this my go to mere caffeine, that's what helps yeah fur migraines to a relic half in the big one. Yet Emily can't do, but that that it's my I couldn't you hang over here. I see that I said that I love you did they works wonders at that body marries where your hang over? No, I'm not I'm not here the daughter, that's what it was for you know yeah, I'm getting a subject. I thought so they decided. We need a liquid form of this wasn't

The drug saw fennel men at his head, it so family, my yes or soften over mine. I think so final, a mine, that's how I would say it. If I were nineteen, thirty, seven Tennessee and well, they had a chemist name, Harold Kilowatt. Can she went to the weapons that are eight? I was dissolved the stuff in something called die if Eileen Glycol diagonally there. When I now worked pretty well, so they add a little raspberry flavouring wouldn T make it palatable. Nay said smells pretty good taste, pretty good, looks pretty good, but sell it, and they did. They saw the bunch of it just like one one month after mixing up a batch of the stuff, they had six hundred and thirty three shipments, all over the country, yes huge demand for this I mean like so so family. My was already established drug, the idea of it being in some sort of power to perform yeah that was gangbusters raspberry like whereby had syphilis that they need to take care of back then in this kind of thing would help,

Give me a pleasant experience will in great and they now there was substantial when they made their first shipment right. Yes, by October middle of October, actor were eleven to be specific group of doctors and told her contacted the amateur American Medical Association and said we think, there's something really wrong with this new mass in your product, which they called so family. Might elixir yeah we're elixir of Finally, my we think it's killing people actually in killing them in one of the worst ways imaginable year. Was it a just go sleepy time now it was a pretty bad debt write arising in agony. You probably puking, gets up. You get your dying from from being poisoned yeah, so they may got ahold of some stuff, and I said you know at the actual drug is fine, but this is the solution we mix it with is the culprit is pure poison, who knew

but he knew and the reason why no news, because mass and go and call Watkins their Harold call walking and his his group of chemists we're not obligated to test the stuff out. Yet, while people knew, though that was the one frustrating thing is our studies out. That said, the stuff was poisoned bright and I guess I just didn't read them right: they didn't research, the literature

a big deal, but they also didn't tested out on human or animal ahead of time and vague again. They just looked at the Tec. There, the appearance, the smell little, where the taste, yet no one took a full those who this apparently here and I'm people died. I think a hundred people died and fifteen states in about a month or so before they could get the shipment back. I think the FDA barely born FDA. This is one of its first actions was going and getting the stuff you and the president of the company said enough. We haven't broken any laws, Gaza, guesswork laws on the books

time and the head chemist their sadly killed himself because of this year, like the struggles for bed worse right and I'm a pretty japanese of em we're here. What do we do? A full upset on that on suicide or not? I mean how to carry, but it had another name to write. Sepulchre yeah did we do that? we just mention it encourages meant. America may I think in the japanese stragglers and probably the samurai mayor and their revenge, one boy started, keep track these days earlier. Really so this led to a nineteen, thirty eight Congress in the U S and acted the FDA Cosmetic ACT, which said that you know what you need to test these drugs on animals and that therein sort of started, at least in the? U S, the official like

three that you can and should do this, but even going a long time before that right, Buddy Galen, who talked about before voting further back than Galen. If you look at the Greeks, as at least as far back as about five hundred BC, the ancient Greeks were using animals for testing poking around figuring out how to how the human body works, and there is the idea that there is an analogy between all animals that human shared so like a lot of the same physiology of all animals, and there is a great disagreement among the Greeks in particular about whether that was true. But it didn't stop guys like Aristotle,

an error sister this year and hypocrisy as well from basically poking around inside, live animals, which is the that, where the term for animal testing came from the other terms, vivisection right vivisection is cutting something open, still life. Yes, specifically, animal right- or you can be said to me again here guess I section recurs after death, bright vivisection is like cunning open. I think a technically surgery would be, but under the idea behind vivisection is that there's. This is just for experimentation, not like. Let me he'll that organ right there right which, by the way, go back and listen to our human experimentation episode great One, remember down so Flash for Tibet to second century room where our friend Galen, who we just talked about him.

Progress are lie stuff in UK in Ireland, a right which, hopefully people here Jim. Yes, he was a medical specialists than he said. You know what I'm gonna do a demonstration in the public Arena Hall. What's the thing here? Basically, I'm gonna get this pig. What is tat? and I'm going to prove that we are all a bundle of nerves by snipping certain nerves of this big. You want to see him not squeal anymore. Watch me snip, nerve right- and I was all planned in this philosopher- Pretty Taylor guy he had punching cookies out Here- is really excited for this day I prefer that was in attendance name, Alexander De Miscentes, yet Damascus, one of those two. He I said you know what this is. Bs does approve a thing and in fact none of these demonstrations prove anything, that's a pig and worth humans. Why

Audrey right. Apparently, the Romans had adapter from the Greeks. The idea that empirical evidence didn't really if anything, yet they have until now, if you saw something it does mean, it was true, a fact which is a weird fast. He liked then the little more I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that you're. But that's just like such a completely radically different paradigm from what we have now the paradigm. Science, we're seeing is indeed believing that it requires empirical evidence used to be the opposite, and that Alexander's big objection like hey man, you can cut that pigs all day long ensure I saw it have that effect, but doesn't prove anything and gaily was like a hate you. I hate that idea. I hate Aristotle yeah, I'm leaving because Aristotle was apparently somebody who said I you I've, I've poker

in a bigger to my time, and I have concluded that the heart and the brain is the centre. This idea that a nerve connected to the brink control anything is hogwash. If you'll forgive the point, the aerosols is too big dummy There are still so arm. Galen did in fact say I'm leaving. He said, I'm taking my medical back, I'm going home. And then everyone there was. I bow. I really want to see this pig get caught apart climb, please! leave she said. Ok, you guys are it twisted. My arm came again perform the experiment. The demonstration- and this was the one of the first recorded- Examples of experimenting on animals for science yeah. So the ball was rolling yeah and.

I own a gale and had done at first in here he obviously had dinner first became a few hundred years after startle who had done that. But if Aristotle had done it eventually somebody who was curious enough foot of grabbed a dog or a chicken or something in this cut, it open started looking at what was inside yeah. You know for sure like it what happened, but these are the people who are recorded doing at first go forward in time a bit to the late nineteenth century, those of micro biologists from Germany, Robert Coke, and he had he had some my some anthrax. Yet some blood from cows kill by anthrax right started. Looking at it under a microscope and said, you know something in their looks funny to me, that might be the anthrax salami. Take that put it in a mouse, see what happens. The mouse died- and he said I'm on it,

Then here, I'm pretty sure those the anthrax yep yeah big deal. It was a big deal again using an animal to experiment in order to further human understanding and protect human health and life. The Triton, those are the biggest that people have used animals for yet, and that was actual like medically. Let me try and Cure disease, yet not like the early guys were words as to what happens. If I suffer this year, It is my ancient greek impression. The point I was gonna make it.

Was later on. In the nineteen fifties, people started, and notably this russian Dmitri Bell. You have started using research on animals, not necessarily for curing diseases, but to study behaviour right right, yeah it we talked about them, honoured animal domestication up. So yes, what he had the great idea for these cute little silver foxes he's like I might like one of those is a picture. I have a niece who, with. None of those man of using this box videos yeah where they cry and walk around crying well or calling her when he and shake their noble tail when he scratched her belly- and I don't know if I see now rikiu that makes your violin purring little chirpy per

in wiggle their tail and wagged his tail and dislike man you're. The perfect combination of dog and cat foxes pretty cute. Yet so I want to teach them well, that's exactly what he did to any thought. I know that domestication usually takes many many many years, but let me see if I can do it and like twenty twenty five years right in Chuck. Speaking of behavioral studies, one of the most famous Vall using animals was Pavlov's dogs, and I was researching and I had no idea

Pavlov didn't just like ring a bell for his dogs and make him salivate. Ratty surgically altered his dogs. He went and got their salary glance and put them on the outside of their faces. He could collects, lie the samples more easily while any created member that cow in Athens. They had a port hole in it yet same thing for the dogs last, so that he could collect gastric chusest, digestive juices for samples as well. So what you're saying is that he was a crazy man here. So I think the larger point here is that humans have been describing animals or even breeding animals for the sole purpose of using them to understand things a little more right. Yes, whether it be cutting them open to see how anatomy works too.

Using them is, as for medical experiments to determine that anthrax is actually blood borne in, can kill you two behavioral studies right here, and we should point out that at work he was able to weed out and buy weed out. I mean call and by call we mean kill and by kill we mean probably break their necks yeah. I think that one of the big problems with with this talking about this stuff is so many from isms are used yet, like you, just you just demonstrated their so on what he did was he was able to weed out the foxes at work is time, and eventually he ended up with a fox that was bout, accounts domesticated here and I saw a pet. It's a dimly korean and it's not just animals that are cute, that we contain,

animals and we must avoid Sayer. Roughly the lower end of the spectrum, as far as life is concerned, are very frequently used. Like nematodes fruit flies her they come into use largely because they have some similar process is like a few studying at a very ancient process right or very ancient part of the body, like I'm insulin, regulation that you're gonna find it throughout the animal kingdom it's gonna be pretty widespread, so the idea is, if you can track insulin regulation in a fruit fly, you could conceivably extrapolate those findings on to a human right and humans insulin. Regular,

in the event of a through fire nematode that there really easy to breed her and they reproduce very quickly as lot of em. So if you like Dmitri, believe and you studying foxes yeah, it took him twenty five years to go through twenty generations near it would take you roughly a month. I would guess to go through about twenty generations of fruit flies, so therefore you can track mutations much more quickly to much more inexpensively so through via new methods. Other again, lesser lifeforms have been used extensively in medical testing as well, and they make their countless.

If it's alive organism, that's being used for experimentation purposes, yeah it can. It depends on what you're trying which our aim, as which our goal is to what animal you do use, because you can't just use any animal for anything and here's a fun fact that did not know that the armadillo is an animal that can actually get Hansen's disease. Again, leprosy. We knew that we talked about the leprosy outnumbered mentioning armadillo, I'm scared to death of armadillos now, because it really oh yeah. When I see it, I just lookin, unlike leprosy, you don't huh anyone know If you see him on the side of the road you know were hit by a car, something like ten minutes. I always double check, while here in Georgia, to elevate always check to make sure that Air recirculated is on when I pass him by that, like the leprosy didn't waft into my car, is I drove past there, the road so well that I was damaged by the leopard?

episode. Will they actually have the perfect body temperature to allow study on vaccines for leprosy in speaking of by the way? I'm sorry to interrupt you Betty, I just found out last night: they Koala is carry clear media really and transmitted sexually and can die from it. Man yet and are actually partially endangered in some ways, because they have clear media. Think about that. Next, You want a hug from that cute little credit right, elbow, veiled, tear your face are too should table breaker, let's take a break in weakening it. We're gonna come back and talk more about the different animal used, and why

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Offer afore weak trial, plus free postage and a digital scale, and there are no long term commitments or contracts just go to stamp that come click on the microphone off the top of the home page and type in s. Why, as K that stance, I come promo code S, why S K Stamps outcome, we'll go to the post office again. Check out before you back to. I want to say this: is this this episode in the other one, that's coming out Thursday, I as a sweet here, and there can be done in conjunction with these guys, I'm Joe and TIM, who run a site called primer stories,

calm and they do seasons there like animators web deeds, and it shows they know what they're doing and they basically taken they they'll take essays. I wrote a messy when they take it. Break it up into chunks and they animated Reiser you're going scrolling down here. Reading, but you are also experiencing the dead. The art, the animation that kind of brings out, The ideas of each one really really neat site: they are they contacted us after are simply show last year right for no early this year and on they said, you wanna. Do one of these and I went and looked in. I was amazed yes, yes, I totally do so

you can go check out the essay. I wrote at primer stories, dot com, slash ass White Ass K and that one is one where releasing after this incorrect it. Well, it has both it's kind of this. I say about humans, changing attitude toward animal right there by the ears fun to do. There could hold it for sure, and I like what to do- and this is the fourth season forth- he's in less pluck nice work things out, so we were talking about using different animals and how, if it's, you know, reply her name, it owed people, don't get their hackles up too much If it is a rat or a mouse, people start getting their hackles up a little more

in mice are very famously used a lot. Ninety percent of our genes overlap with this mouse, specifically this one, which is it move. Moose amuse, genus mice, MRS Genus mice, so that's the one that they use most often Has the ninety percent overlap in their cell structure? An organ organization are basically the same as ours Oh they do a lot of testing with these might result. Everything from you know, disease and staff to genetics, behaviour that they can run again. It right I might get for sure, and from that point not they tend, I think, run the gamma summer low morsel.

Rick than others like beagles, apparently yeah. I really come in handy when you're testing, prostate cancer or muscular dystrophy, both yeah, because they can contact the developers, so they make great animal models yet these cats, who, because of their sight in their hearing in their balance, I have to ask: how are you feeling I know about this episode,

Well, what do you mean like about the topic? Is your home together? Really? Well you mean I'm not crying. It checked my emotions out of this one. Ok, I think this two parts we will get points across sure thumbs, relying on that I'll get weepy later tonight. Do you remember the secretive name, yeah sure, I'd forgotten the secret was right. I don't think it ever dawned on me with the secretly wasn't. I went back and was reading about the mice right there, rats, rapture and secretive name, while we polish currency would that be spoiler yeah. I think so. It's like these boiler like this in the title. What if the secretive name was that well, as in the sixth sense, was dead all along. You know what I think was an even though it is that a smaller he I think it was. It was years ago, at least, if you haven't seen the success by now, the t S for you

save your email gusty, the others, though lotta people have seen the others without success. Now don't they call commend our yet good men, those great airy atmosphere, Moody found that one and the orphanage yeah yeah fantastic, accurate orphanages, maybe even the better. The two yeah, so monkeys primates, while non human primates. We can train nice. Specifically, the MAC Monkeys used a lot because there is a lot of them and their widely distributed a robber. Population. So you don't. They made a lot of advances into neuroscience, thanks to them a crack monkey and then

There's some animals little just do because they contain flesh like pigs and goats. Right are used to in with called life tissue trauma, training, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's used to train battlefield medics in the military here and the coastguard apparently, and the animals and ass the ties deeply to like surgical, plain levels and shot or blown up, or are we just weird stuff Don T wait to stimulate a battlefield trauma so that a medic can do live what it's called life tissue trauma training, so they can save a life on the battlefield. You have it in the youth and eyes the they kill they. Animal lasher were but yes on the battlefield. That's the whole amidst the whole point.

They're in their saying, there's no substitute for that. Well, which is sort of the what they scientists in doctor say well, we'll get, and all that one thing we should mention, though, is that if you look for labels that say this was not tested on animals, it sort of like the whole free range chicken myth. It's not exactly what you think. It is right, all free rein, sickens within the hatches havoc, a port attached to the structure. They don't even have to have access to it. You just have to have that the door open, so they can leave if they want yet, but the ear

We'll have images that children's running around the fields and the idyllic countryside here, but they don't they there in the barn where the food is in a kind of don't leave, but the door there's other technically free range. Unless something strange, when I worked in the chicken industry, those sad that said here or whatever it was, I would guess I plead nothing. She probably so, but if you look for labels, say cruelty, free or not tested on animals. It may not mean what you think, because technically there's no oversight on a label like that, and it could mean that we did not in the final

product of this cosmetics tested on animals. We didn't test this rude, but all the raw ingredients that went into this from our suppliers were tested on animals or back in the sixties or seventies. They tested these same ingredients on animals in there's, no need for us to test them again. So now we can say not tested on animals, even though lately these sittings, rightly things were tested on animals years back here, and actually China has changed things recently is the West was getting further further away. I think the EU banned imports of of anything that have been tested on animals cosmetic twice now in China has gone the opposite direction. It is mandated there

anything imported into China. Cosmetics wise must have been tested on animals for kind of reset things here in the West, because there's a lot of western companies like yeah. I want in on that chinese market and China thing where you got a test you're like the whole thing on animals before it comes in here right, interesting. So here's the deal over the twentieth century we ve made a lot of medical advances. Life expectancy is gonna needs that has gone up about three months per year in the twentyth century, largely due to stuff like this testing for disease. Well, yet people who are advocates of animal testing say that would not have happened. Maybe at all had we not use the animal strike and life expectancy was extended three months a year from, I think, like eating forty, two thousand six or something like that: it's not ever

and then there was advanced by finding things like antibiotics and vaccines and all other things that are not just extend the human life but make the extended years more enjoyable as well, where healthy and that's a huge rallying cry for people who point to animal testing and say this is this is necessary and had I continue. Naturally, there is a two thousand eleven pole of biomedical researchers by nature, which is no slouch of a scientific journal and they found a ninety percent agreed with thief. The sense uses animals in research is essential rights to doesn't eleven two heads that got that sentiment isn't go. You are now. I think, that's probably much accurate. Today,

on the other side of the coin, you have animal rights activists in an even if you're, not an activist, just your average Joe on the street or jane- I might say you know at this- is unethical- does a lot of harm its wasteful and there are better ways to do it. In fact, some people say it's not even doing the job that it should be doing. For instance, they can cure cancer and mice, and we have been able to do this for a while. I can't hear in humans of the eighty five HIV Aids vaccines that were tested successfully on primates. They don't work on humans and one of a may have even made humans more susceptible to it. Yes, so agenda in others to very strong sides. To this argument, the FDA has said that nine tenths of all drugs and development dont work in humans

they worked in animals because you just can't sell writing. Actually I like that of the it's it's a little bit of a fallacy more like ninety four percent, while failing create clinical trials, but that's all pre clinical trials that so you're, not just animal testing, but also non animal testing where it passed the first stages when it made it clinical trials. Ninety four percent of all drugs failed to work or actually, humans, there's another side of the coin there to check how many sides ratifying this. It's like one of those. Resided die that you never know how to use here. There are probably a lot of drugs out there that harmed animals and were shelved right then didn't make it into clinical.

Yes, the animals were harm that may not have harmed humans are actually could have cured thing interesting. So there's people saying no. We need to be testing in humans because we're using this for humans right. That's that's what some some problem! I guess protesters against animal testing would say and then another thing that I saw that you intend to think like. Ok, well, it's advancing science, so I can really get in the way that right. But there are one of the the critiques of that it is now. The sciences is good that, having done in like a lot of animal lives, if you agree that animal lives are a valuable and butter, using an animal like to advance scientific understanding to protect human health and life is worthy. Were the use of an animal then that you would also probably grew the

that wasting my animal life and scientific testing is, is unforgivable right bf. So there is a survey in two thousand nine pillow ass, one proceedings, the library, science, one a journal of two hundred and seventy one animal studies. I found that have forty one percent failed, the even state, a hypothesis or objective to the test. Smile thirty percent failed to describe the statistic methods used. In the study? Eighty seven percent didn't randomize. Eighty six percent didn't use, blinding and other basic scientific efforts that you have to make in any experiment. Here are very basic, which means that those things were wasted, which means those animals lives were wasted, and, while the suggestion is, is there a lot of publicly funded? Science is just not very good. Science and its wasting the lives of animals involve.

Well, that's sad concerning get emotional. Ok, let's take a break then, and I will come back and talk a little bit about our old buddy, Charles De Chuckie, Darwin the new, it is us which resolutions do you, plan to conquer and twenty twenty become more mindful, Orkut a healthier lifestyle through diet, exercise and, of course, improved sleep. The sleep number three, sixty smart that helps everyone get the proven, qualities, leap that will change their life uselessly by queue up to help create a redeem. The sleep number three sixty smart bed is the smartest choice for better, and the best bad for couples. It allows you to adjust on each side of your ideal firmness, comfort and support. It, senses your movements and automatically adjust to keep you sleeping comfortably through the night with sleep IQ technology inside the bed,

trucks how you're sleeping and gives you personalized insights for your best, sleep discover proven quality sleep with asleep number three. Sixty smart bed, if one thousand dollars on a queen special edition, smart bed during the January sale only at it, wait: numbers door or sleep number dot com flash. I heart that sleep number d come flesh. I hard sleep numbers. Official sleep and wellness partner of the NFL. All right, so I teased everybody with Charles Darwin. I was then who use

which is why you, every Halloween my dress up his Charles Darwin and tease the local teens. Oh, what are you gonna, dressed up as fur show in DC on October? Twenty nine I dont know, but I'm glad you mention that, because we're doing a show, the Lincoln Theatre in returning to a Pauline Ball, it's Halloween bash, nor even a ball. Here, it's the wrong above the ball, including a reading. About Halloween story like we do just for their ears. Oh yeah posts will be dressed up here, encouraging everyone who comes to be dressed up. Maybe I'll goes Charles Darwin and, as far as I know, it's in all ages show, but it could get spooky and I'll show you get a little blue, so justify even more so, Charles Darwin. Who am I dressed up as I've got, I'm pretty sure. I know what I'm going s I'd, rather not feel at another more at the time. He

was candidate on this game a long time ago, and he was he loved animals, but he also wanted to study animals, but he also wanted to treat them humanely, while he studied animals since Sunday, Charles Darwin, line of approach? Yes, so those in eighteen? Seventy four there was like people were actually starting to get in trouble for some of these things in eighteen. Seventy four. These scientists were actually put on trial for torturing die, dogs because they want to see how absinthe an alcohol affected their nervous system, so they cut him open and expose them to these liquids. Doubts tremendous what I am taking from AG have no idea. I guess so they are actually acquitted, but it sort of brought things into the in the front of everyone's mines and Darwin people sailor

do this at all. Darwin stepped in and said he was a more modern said. You know it lets craft the bill here in the United Kingdom, where you can do this, but Do a humanely- and that resulted in the cruelty to animals act of eighteen. Seventy six yeah, pretty great it was advancement, it was by the UK, actually is long lead the way in the west for animal rights even before their eyes will see they. They were trying to protect animals, as will soon. Its episode, that's right and then later and nineteen fifty four, the universities better and of animal welfare said: let's get these two did zoologist, microbiologists, Russell and Birch, and just do a lot of research guys and come back with some findings that we can use and boy did they get the em they're like there's a lot better. That we can do is important

animals. They scientists are typically dumb and can only remember things through a liberation. So these guys came up at the three are perfect, something that could be put on appear, say, poster and the three hours understanding about the scientists think our replacement reduction and refine right. Yes, so your first goal is to fail to find a replacement of the animal. Is there any alternative to animal in this experiment? Yeah well like An animal would not like it with a worm, perhaps instead of a mouse right or you know, if you can find a willing robot right that that's a bill second ones reduction, you want to reduce the number of animals used to the absolute minimum. You don't want to have any spare orangutans hanging around you want to know how many gonna use

Those are the ones that you can kill, correct and then finally, refine, which means in this, as you know, the sword, the opposite of what you're talking about with those awful stats that you said right like. Let's refine this in at least get your technique. And so well that the suffering is minimize to its bare minimum the waste is reduced here and that their data, that was nineteen, fifty nine, that Ruslan Birch released the three hours was a two thousand nine that that one study I cited was connected thirty years later here, so Peter in other people for the ethical treatment of animals. We talk about them, but a bit on the They are down with the three hours of course, but they say you know it s. Not enough, though, we have a lot of studies that show that their way better ways of doing things. These days then using

oh yeah, I with the computer modeling that we have now and software in humans and there they figured out techniques using a stem cells to grow organs or organ cells. Nurse, like say skin cells in vitro and then exposing them to the chemicals. You wanna test again now really. Well, you have your reaction or non reaction. So have it with like a human human cells. Yet so it's not like. Oh it, it mister rabbit, face up pretty bad

I will just assume that it will make up a human skin as well as no the stuff really burn through that that human skin tissue that we synthesized so now we know for sure not to give it a human right. There is also something called I'm a big objection to that is well, that's you sit at the skin is a group of skin cells in vitro that doesn't really replicate. You know these really intricate inner plays that make up organs and systems of organs. Yes and there's a cup, the out called arm in arm with a cold, but their invention is organized on a chip awhile. It's amazing dude. I watch this video about it. Last night I gonna teach up. I hope it's the only way I could be better. Did you get it afterward, but it be pretty messed up. If you did so, it's like a usb stick size module, that's the word and go with transparent and say the long on a chip has some brain

stuff and inside there is a layer of lung cells and the that replicate in stimulate human long writer, you have human lungs- are growing in the war in range, in the way that they would in the human mind, and then the this device allows you to pass air over the top and blood over the top and introduce bacteria and introduce white blood cells and study what they do. So you replicating the function of a human law on this little thing, what should always simulation it is, but it's a real simulation AIDS is using real long cells in their functioning. Like a long normally. Would you accept you don't have to you? Don't have to use a united to say here in in inhale this we'll just pass this antibiotic across the long cells and it'll treat it like the human long

it's amazing and then yes, you can eat it. Afterward anything human long ourselves with some guacamole. Fifty like the circle of life, is complete. Well, that It is one of the big points so that peat and a lot of organizations uses that we were so advanced now with our computer. Let me simulations in there. Actually, they are better ways than like it's sort of archaic to expire, on an animal like these are not only cruelty free but its smarter and better right. That's the argument. They may yeah, and I mean the statistics cut both ways like if you look at Peter stats there, like animal models, are predictive it in this dismal range right for you, no human outcomes, and then the people in favour of animal testing, say well, these these computer models are actually the ones that have dismal result right, so both sides it. I guess it's just two new, maybe unproven near but

There does seem to be a movement afoot in bio medicine to replace as much as possible computer models with her animals with computer models yeah. Some of the other things that animal rights groups lobby for it, like well. How about you just do like cities, cancer, memorize you're, actually harming the animal or of this income Micro dosing, where you actually give humans just very, very small doses of these medicines, that that won't be enough to hurt them. If things you don't work out, but you could tell

if it's gonna, be effective or not yet still produces, that reactionary and molecular level is he's not gonna have a system wide toxic effect on evaluating its pretty neat and in their there there's some change, but at the same time there is also some digging in and on. Both sides is well like, for example, with that live tissue trauma training there is. There is a movement to replace any live animal with dummy, you're, a mannequin, or something like that in the people who are proponents of using animals and lied tissue trauma, training, say man there's something that can happen. Your battlefield Merrick during combat and that's called freezing when their presented with a human being

with a major trauma right, they can just sit there and freeze and freak out, because this is the first time they ve been exposed to it. One of the aspects of in a blowing the leg off of a pig is that these persons having to work on a pig he needs a pig, but it's alive pig right, if not at recess, Annie right exactly and maybe they, the major they made the poorest. Here for the pig for like a week. First, there has even more well why dismay that up, but you could see how the how that would like that would be tough to replace the herself and argue air, but I think, ultimately, the question is raised Chuck and this has already been addressed in the next. The third is is probably the largest question of all in his do. Humans have or have humans ever had the right to use animals for own means right and that, Sir, what we'll talk about that one on the next episode boy? That's a nice cliffhanger, I think so too.

But how do we have listener melded? Yet- and you know what not only that we have a two part listener may also that has its own cliffhanger manner. I well, let's get to it. So if you want to know more about animal testing, you can type. The word in the search bar has therefore, that comment will bring up this excellent article and ass incited search bar it's time for port wine of listener mail. Try. This one was so robust. It's an unprecedented you partner from Eve on not even that IRAN will. He grew to be a good man. I hope so now. Let's leave on other l silent. It does words anyway, but its adorable right here we go for soft guys got to say you're, not only my favorite part gas, but also my tenure old sons, favorite hot gas. Wasn't it

Ray episode at least twice that of my sons also None of your tv show an animated short. Why they are indeed well However, my beautiful fiance is not in fact there have been times when it will be sitting next to her and she's reading a book and I'll have my headphones listening to the podcast, so I dont disturb her and she burst out laughing like crazy person. In her words, this quote crazy end quote: behaviour mine is directly related to listening to you to support for that anyway. What the reasons are right is to call your attention. You said on the sugar powers europhile gas than twenty fourteen. Jackson when they were gonna, rerecord show not realize it we're gonna hear about it. We manage to do it. You probably heard from someone else by now, but you have covered the topic of customs twice. The the most recent Mcnuggets twenty, sixteen,

Yes, one in September of twenty ten! Don't get me wrong. Both were great by honestly think the both of you legitimately forgot. I was waiting for either of you to acknowledge at the second time and that never came and Yvonne. You are right on the money, vow Josh male man, said: hey Buddy, guess what we ve done this it finally happened here. We are said and done it first. I was like shoot, but then I thought you know it. You got a nice bitter trivia. Now was bound to happen. Now. People have it's almost like an Easter egg. Listeners advance can say, like you know it's when they are the twice he drew Van. You know you know it's weird, though, at no point during your research energy

wording of the Customs episode was I like sounds really familiar, or do we talk about this? Nothing, no point whatsoever nope, so that might make the first Customs episode. The least memorable episode. Remember not perhaps so our part, two you can look for in the second part of this week coming out from Yvonne, wherein he made a list of all of our ban names over the years he also made a list of your plans. I am not funny. I take issue with that. I'll talk about it in the next episode rate at that's a great set up. If you want to get in touch with us like leave on even eve on It is something that we say he didn't say, but I'm even inside you sound like a funeral home. You can tweak to us it s. Why escape castor, hang out with me at Josh Clark,

can hang out with this on Facebook at Facebook, that consular stuff you snow and check out Chuck it Charles Debbie, Chuck Bright and me super Josh clerk both on Facebook, weren't instagram we're on social media that has now been invented. Yet year, plus, you can send an email to stuff. I guess the house upwards, that camp is always doing our home on the web, the newly updated stuff. You should know doc for more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff works out com investigative journalist, Avery Stevens, is approached by fixer. For the rich and famous was ready to hand over his client secrets. She thinks she's had a journalistic jackpot but when her sources kill every herself at the centre of a criminal conspiracy and soon murdered herself

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