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welcome to stop. You should now a production, and I heard radio pay and was applied jest. I'm Josh and there's shocking jerry's here too in this stuff you should know yes, yes, you should have said this sea away and welcome to the pod guest, I want to issue a sea on this- one- ok This is one of those that is, So broad and dense an awesome that, like I almost feel bad doing as you know, refurbished minute episode of eid, guest, yeah, as ever futures them is so vast. It's like it first sometimes these do not feel like will.

explain what it is and then just like list a bunch of us some people yeah, you know but this this illness. Of oliver episodes. This one is meant to whet the appetite more than most, I think as an end induction to it. the future is that you go check out lots and lots of That's yourself cause. That's all I've been doing yeah It should title it an, tourism, one or one. maybe not even what's what's below one was in the ninety nine Ok, maybe right now I can remember there is actually a number for insight, remedial college courses that you have to take to catch up, man I can remember, but what we Look it up and maybe that'll be now because then we will get email saying. How could you not mention so, and so How could you not mention so and sows other thing? even though you mention them right

just one of the things which is too much, but I'm hopefully this others introduce people to this idea in this concept of this cultural Instead, again, philosophy yeah This is definitely one of those episodes that we should try to define what we're talking about, first, which, by the way we took guff for not telling people in depth. who milly finelli were, I was so taken aback by that, like what do you do even occur to me that we needed to like go further into defining. we vanilla from the outset. I know I thought even our younger listeners. I thought that was such a big cultural thing that you know like I know about things before I was born nope, note that, while this is not merely vanilla, this is what we're talking about after a future them in our futures and, like you said, it's a huge big, that has a lot of different definitions, but probably the

the most distinct way I can define it in this means finding it is that it is the visions of the future. fantasy world were alternate realities which all funded fall under the umbrella of speculative fiction. Speculative literature yeah threw up, african american lens right. Yeah I will just drill down a little bit and say that incorporates obviously literature, but music and dance- and every kind of art you can think of movies. Obviously, in television We kind of any thing that has cool sort of sci fi bent through the lens of african americans and I will get it. More definitions gives you know it's one of the things that people can really pick apart as far as what counts

and what does it and then after its around for a while. I should we even becoming at this now, and should I call at this and what will get and all that, but suffice it to say that, like all of us, of is just really cool and awesome and serves It has a title because it is serving a people that it has been under served when it comes to science fiction, yeah, so it's kind of evolved in parallel as its own thing, but it grew out of originally science fiction. Writing, so one must, people think of afrofuturism, they think of sci fi novels, essentially but once you start to look into ever features in answer to understand what it is you see it pop yup all over the place like it was right in plain sight for me, and I never really realised what I was looking at night. Taking. All of it is like individual. Like are too take things rather than a part of a collective, so it's ours too. There is one

giant movement that it's a part of like. I said it does finally have its roots in science fiction, which is pretty appropriate, because, as far as any literary genre goes science fiction, has explored the theme the rise in racism and other Nilsen alien. This more than any other, I would say. Yeah, and I have a little stat sort of drive home. My underserved point and this was from twenty sixteen and walk so it's it's a little dated and things are getting better since then for were but per cent time. Eight percent of the top grossing cipher films of all time black protagonists when forward Ten of those were well smith, wow, so The from will myth four percent of movies of course, if you look at you know that big to star trek in star wars,

star wars, gonna live better now, but the original trilogy had one black character, of course, Lando And then start tracked, which I know nothing about, and I'm sure things have changed since then as well: the time I think only head in all of the star trek properties had known it said, look Then twelve black mergers and I'm not sure that means well you didn't say eleven, unless one was on the fence. I have an idea, I don't know yeah. That is an odd way to put it for sure. I a tricky could explain to them. I am speaking of every time I reader le research about star trek roads is comes up. I have to go watch that william shatner siren at live appearance from the news. Yet get a library speaking at a star trek convention, it's just priceless every single time, if you've never seen that just look up William shatner star trek, I mentioned Saturday night live and you won't be disappointed. for a younger listeners. William Shatner is an actor

aid from before you were born and acting is where you ve performed under your on screen any screen the dry, so the eight percent is actually progress compared to the early twentieth century. The hum and most people don't think that there were any blacks. I writers, if you think about that kind of thing, at all, until the sixties, really, when a guy named samuel, Delaney came long he's off, because it is the first black sigh writer, He made a huge splash in the sixties kind of almost single handedly taking the genre sigh five out of the realm of martians. invading an earth outpost right to. Let's explorer sucks irritation, gender fluidity race. In really like high handed manner and was producing books that were over eight hundred, It is long in some cases. but he really move things along. So not only was he one of the first african

american sigh fi writers. He was one of the first takes. I find too much deeper directions. Gear friction sure, but he's also a guy that when you see interviews with them- and I watched quite a few supercool guy but he's one of the first ones to say no, no, no! Well! I had people before me right it just it never became hugely popular. For obvious reasons, but not those again, eighteen, fifty seven, nay, martin Delaney, who is a kind of it echo all trades. He was a doctor and a journalist and an author and abolitionist he wrote a book, a novel called blake or Lots of a which was as a lot of these are alternate histories. That kind of supposed like but with life be like she had either slavery not happened, or slavery, happened in a different way or what, if you know the white people were enslaved in black people.

were on top and is just sort of looking it kind of a lot of things through the lens of the diaspora, and you know, I'm not into cypher books I never have. But, alas, this stuff. It made me want to read sigh for the first time just discuss it sounds cool cause. I love alternate history yet for sure That's definitely part of speculative fiction, alternate history in general, but yeah, Martineau amy's bleaker, the huts of amerika was written in eighteen, fifty seven and it wasn't until I mean I think, the another couple kids things would come out sporadically, but there is a guy named edward johnson who wrote light ahead for the negro nineteen o one and he imagined a black man who was transported to a socialist version in the united states in two thousand six were things were much much better so that these ideas. These alternate histories are kind of coming out. Little by little, but they are very, very clearly under them.

What you would call now speculative fiction umbrella and they written by african americans much much earlier. Then samuel Delaney long before he was even born. This sub was happening. It it was happening like almost in a vacuum like, a black author or a black leader would have agreed idea to get his point across by writing an alternate history and that there wasn't like a genre. There wasn't a movement or anything like that year. and do any also points out that the like that Pulp rags a lot of those were written anonymously and it. China was an area of literature where full of color women, who you know couldn't get published published, is readily at the time the yeah right under these pseudonyms and get stories out in these pop magazine, articles and stuff and stories and but you know who knows how many you know that

americans writing this kind of stuff yet because you did the whole thing through the mail and apparently at the time you were more likely than not to be using a pseudonym for that stuff, because that was just like keeping the electricity on I'm kind of writing. It only mean dear So that's it. That's a really great point, but the I think the underlying thing here is the reason that there weren't more black. Authors of sigh. Five in part was because it was just riding in general literature in general. There is like a general pushed to keep african a mirror. It's out of things like that as much as possible and then is, as african americans became more more integrated into american society. The thing that kept africa americans out of sight, fi writing actually came down to one guy. Who was named John w campbell junior and its slightly hyperbolic to say he was the glass ceiling that that the gatekeeper that,

sigh fi white for decades. He was definitely one of the one of the gatekeepers. He was editor of I think back then it was called astounding science fiction. It went by a bunch of other names, and now it's around is analogue science fiction. In fact, yet in fact I say that with a comma, but in fact it's a period actually period but he was the editor and, like you said he was a guy that You know he wrote a bunch of essays in the nineteen sixties that supported segregation at one point: he held slavery, a useful educational system and because, as I can that were gatekeepers these stories didn't get through, and people like Delaney, and I take a butler who were going to talk about a lot more. She talked about being in school and even her teacher saying things like you know: unless it's like really necessary for the planet,

You shouldn't have a black protagonist unless it's like for a reason or you know if you're gonna talk about race in a way you know in science fiction, maybe might make some extra terrestrial instead of black disorder, like a metaphor, because the two heavy for people to do. You know to really take right. take a butler wrote a really great essay. Nineteen eighty called the lost races of science fiction and she look on that their excuse for why there wasn't more black people in science fiction works. and she's she's, your it on star wars as an example. The first one answer The war ok planet! Why? corruption. Ok, kidnapping, ok, the sight of a minority person too heavy to real tissues now they like there's plenty of real world stuff that you you can consider pretty horrible. There is just fine in science fiction, but racist too distracting, and that was like.

the kind of the drum that was beaten by guys, like John w Campbell and the reason why they were so powerful was because the time if you wanted to get your novel published. Basically the mole, direct route was to have it. Syria lies first in one of those magazines that guys like join dubuque, campbell edited gear and then, if you keep black off, there's outer blacks. I try, who also large Keep black readers out of as I too, and just by private, People like Samuel Delaney from getting his his story. Cereal eyes, black safe, I writers, were- were basically kept out in his. genetic who won best? You writer, of two thousand nineteen for science fiction. Writing. which were to think it was actually maybe that same award from analogue science fiction in fact

She said that sudan title four big really. Is she so that John w Campbell had kept science fiction? Stale, sterile male white the salting of, imperial aspirations, colonialism settlement industrialism and she was basically just. I mean we don't worry. I can a harp on this. The whole episode, but there was a huge block in this- particular genre, and it was just a handful of people who everybody else went along with. It seems like for sure I think, that's a great initial fifteen minute overview

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Oh africa, afro future ism- it's kind of hard to say we sometimes it was coined by white writer, name, mark dairy and early nineties. Ninety ninety three and a peace called black to the future, and- in that pc interviewed a few writers Delaney these greater name, gregory tapes and patricia rose, whose a sociologist, and basically was like the whole point of the essay was. Why are there so few working novelist african american novelist working in this honour. What happened to get us here? Why aren't there more now, and what can we do about it to change this in the future and any others like especially like science fiction, seems especially suited for people of color, because- and this is a great he said in a very real sense there, the descendants of alien abductees and like you think of it like that,

makes a lot of sense that sigh firewood canopy. You know something that really fits yeah and he was It turned out to be a great fit for africa. arrogance I fire writers, but still at the time there were basically for that. He could think of ink putting samuel Delaney in your butler then also a guy named Steve Barnes who's written basically everything that has anything to do with science fiction, and then another fantasy authoring, Charles Saunders in those, Basically, it misses the mid nineties that this guy was writing this. I say in doing these interviews but he hid it right on the head that it is a really great this spring springboard for for black writers, the kind of explore the past and the future but he defined. It is a speculative fiction that treats african american themes and addresses african, american concerns in the context of twentyth century techno culture and basically.

he took what was already happening in firmly labelled it and put a lot of constraints on it when he coin the term ever a future ism and then defined it like that yeah and that's where there is some, I guess eight over whether or not it should be strictly limited through the lens of african americans and the diaspora or just black culture world wide as a whole, and you know it I think at the end will talk about some of the some other more inclusive names. They kind of income that's all. You know what kind of world wide black culture, but there are people that kind of on both sides of the fence in I mean I guess for me, you know I just I just think it's all great, so nit picking about you know the exact definition is not for me, but,

We had to pointed out that did it out there and there is a debate. Yet one of the big things is whether it specifically african american because there's a lot more, communities out there than just african americans. Third one many you ve got the entire continent of africa and all of its various groups. You ve got the diaspora, like you said african american, the sentence or african descendants living in your the nature and all around the world. Then there's even like some types is well like that, african american diaspora is made but people whose answer There's were enslaved in america and then once they were free moved out of american that mexico, canada, wherever so that there is a lot of different groups and what mark dairy did situated exclusively in the realm of african americans. That's a big! That's a big point of debate. Still today

but the thing womack points out in that book, which. You know is very easy for, like a middle age. White guide overlook is the fact that these efforts the future is. The aims, are a way of you talked about a method of self liberation, self healing so you know to imagine a future for europe, is a hopeful thing, so if you're in a hostile world, It's probably very easy to have a very bleak depiction of the future of your people and these stories like their shirts science fiction and in his you know, science fiction is always a sort of Not light is actually very heavy. Lotta cases been, maybe not to be taken seriously by by some people, but you know I don't think it's like that. I think the egg offer very heavy commentaries and it can offer hope to people that, like If we can write about ourselves in the future, then,

We can imagine ourselves like thriving in the future yeah. Similarly, it's a way for african americans and people of african descent. In general, to stake a claim of the future right, because if you think about the future- and I think I'm mark dairy made the point like- if you look at tomorrow, land at disneyworld and disneyland. It's super light The future and generals just wait. It's like a projection of current times and for future ism says no there's a different way of looking at it too, and that this was the one they kind of trigger them. Understanding. For me, the distinct between after a future ism and just any other kind of say sigh fi that feature like a black character, is that you're? Not just taking like african, american and making him them an astronaut

the structure of the current imagined future, which again is super white bases of our future. Ism is completely re, imagining the future, completely re. Imagining the passed through a black lance kind of like, if you, if black people were in charge of but producing the future. This is a vision of what it could be. Like kind of thing you, rather than just following along the current trajectory that we ve been on. This time in america, which is a super white trajectory includes other people, but the basis of everything. The structure of everything is through the white lines. This is taking it through a black lanes and its I saw it. De familiarizing, what we, Think of is like the future. Now I like that term, I thought so I thought you would yeah. Since there's one guy who we have to mention. Who is you know,

complicated goddess haseman leeson, and that is one of the first sort of twentyth century f, the future of writers, who is george schuyler, He wrote a generally for black publications, but he wrote all these books, he wrote novels and essays and short stories and things sometimes or pulp stories- and they were exam- what we ve been talking about. There was one in the thirties Syria lies pulp stories about. We'll black uprising its white colonialism, buddy these hundred pseudonyms, the sooner nam samuel I brooks, and schuyler himself in. I rl, I would right essays kind of slamming store is that he wrote as brooks. He wrote that he said it was hokum and hacking.

In the purest vain and was a very conservative guy in Israel life unlike backed Joseph Mccarthy's camp, and against the kind this then he was sort opponent of the civil rights movement in history, men are needed, dive into the sky little more and see that some serious complication right there. You know for sure he is, but he wrote that book black, no more. Where you you could visit a machine pay, fifty dollars and after three a three day process be turned from black to white in it clearly a ban society in civilization, both in the wake me in the end, the black community, and he wrote that is words skyler the conservative guy, but he's is considered one of the first progenitors of the I for a future them in the twentieth century. And then simultaneously chuck as guy like schuyler, writing and samuel? I brooks The same guy

writing. After a few tourism, a meal the girl form of after a few tourism is kind of developing too. And if you look back in the past, it was just a few people popping. in doing something they eventually a couple. Decades later you could say off fall into the same general category yeah. I mean these rob sort of in the cases of schuyler and that the gas to talk about is all these are like retroactive titles right, because there the term wasn't around back then, but you can't talk about after a future ism without talking about george in sun raw on the is inside and spent the basics, all day, listening to a sunrise, playlist and it is, you- know I had to be in the mood for this kind of jazz. It is it's tough, very free form, it's very odd in

it's not like you know this very melodic super listen, a bull can afford. its challenging music and sunrise was a really interesting guy. He was born in Birmingham and nineteen fourteen as herman blount and he moved to Chicago in the forties and played a little more traditional, tight jazz, but in the sixties, went to new york and things really he really freed himself up of what the de of jazz or just composed muse. It could be used in out there. The cat, then all the right ways for sure He made more than a hundred and fifty albums with his arc extra in whole premise of it was there. He was essentially kind of like the profit returned from saturn to help lead, humanity. If not just african americans off of earth,

because things like slavery had ruined earth and he had this whole methods. This wasn't just like a concept album that he he put this right wholesome counter career yeah yeah for decades. This is too how he lived in Hee Hee inspired a lot of people in I'm with you, The kind of jazz is hard for me to to listen tuna matter, who's playing it but he had an album from nineteen. Fifty seven that I think is super easy to listen to called supersonic jazz thickets technically before before he moved to new york and really set up the orchestra. But it's clear leave sondra like you? Can you can tell answer? If you want to try out. Sun, RA and you've tried some of his later stuff and you're, like I'm, not ready for this listening supersonic jazz their album first and seem to think that don't let them down there to that that confusing don't so confusion jazz,

much more accessible as george Clinton in parliament funk adele guy the air, I am a big fan always have been. I tend to lean more toward the funk adela records and in the parliament, even though I love the parliaments of two, but he is someone I've seen a few times in alive and I'm going to see him again next month, where at symphony hall, where we're performing phoning I'd just like to share the same. It's not at the same time. Obviously, but just to be the same stage that george couldn't will be on herb had been on this critical yeah we're not worthy, but always a great show his band is, is awesome. I mean it. It's very space age he used to have the mothership that would come down on the sage. He had entered the mothership, all it's a great sort of for the eyes and ears. Hey they're reminds me before you got I'm sorry to interrupt, but they're, just coincidentally the the

in exhibit right now at the national museum of african american history in DC, is f future ism. and one of the core things they have on display is a replica of the. U s, foe that george Clayton would come on the stage in them. The ship, there is like life size. Yes, yeah like an exact replica because apparently threw away the one that he used in the seventies and in the night when they started trying again they made flickr. I think that's the exact one: that's in the smithsonian yeah The first time I saw him was when he started up again, and he was on that lollapalooza tour He played a show us arm of the law, the police, about us on the night before at the center. age theatre. We also played there actually Where does it all george could not but he did the show at the centerstage, and you know he was getting up there in age at the time back then- and I imagine when I see him next month, like he's an older guy now, but he was

he was still getting down back then, and he had the the boys came out at the end and cause they were playing. applause and sort of like us all, starting in sweet. It was pretty great, but am Clinton was a kid who listen, I'm sorry, you watch star trek and buck rogers and was indecipherable, and it was again it was one of the things where he didn't see any at presentation. He just knew what right away. we took ass it later on and watch two thousand space out is eaten in fantasia when he took lsd for the first time and that you know at some pretty profound impact, so the things that I didn't realize cause you know we're living in the post, parliament era, but one things that parliament did was unite generally for actually black community after the mlk assassination, apparently them There was a lot of just fracturing in in the black community and four years later, George Clinton came along and kind of trying to bring

people, together by by throwing a party for further for the effort- american community in the united states oh really, and so the whole pull premise was that clayton and the rest of the people. All source who include like bury war. All are burning, morale and boots collins. They- aliens who come to earth to teach everybody how to party they. This is a quote effort, not capable of funky ties in galaxies man, it's a girl, want to quickly mention local. Ah, atlanta, guy Lonnie Holly as well money you, member matter net, our friend, who We know that their allotted for ways you're in atlanta, but supporter of the arts and matt is lobbies kind of friends, I guess I guess, he's a tour manager and manager but at lahti holly's is a modern,

representation of sort of what ro future is amiss and still plays these small shows in his stuff. It's really real a good area. Just awful. Unlike intense and weird, it's really cool yeah. It's super supercool. I've never heard his stuff, but I'm going to check it out now yeah. If you can see him, life gets it, that's when it gets really can avert awesome, take me to show I well hidden play a lot. I just so. He played new york recently cause Michael stipe of courses, air finally have to new york. What's your problem, I saw a match in in court the other day soap. we were only able to tax from across the court recruitment. There's gotta be a story there. We were both fighting the man, you know we were both right and basically does the bureaucracy of Atlanta had kept us down and find us from various things. Hashtag hero,

yeah. I can get into later later, but both of us were like this is such bs, so yeah, so the whole parliament, myths that kind of developed it actually did help bring people together. Quite a bit in image is kind of a point work, not just black people, but white people and people of all color who were into funk good it has come together and agree on that which is like if If you just kind of look at it like that, it's like yeah they they had abandoned a lot of people like them, but but if you kind of scratch, just one hold down. That's really significant to to make something on purpose, to per we bring people together and other talk about problems are too hammer issues out or anything like that, but just a kind of giver, the place it can breathe and chill together and get away from the rest of the issue. in this kind of come together. That's what parliament did and I think that's pretty neat

They are not the only group that ever did there, but it's you George Clinton's express purpose was doing that from what I get from what I can tell and he put his own like cool psychedelic, futures, spin on it, you know and another just real, quick aside thing another. A musician, that's often overlooked, but sometimes cited as ever. Futurists is least scratch perry who now you're aided debray gay man he did Do some kind of far out stuff use a far out dude apparently, but like just his music alone has like a spacey vibe to it that uses you're overlooked yet, if you dont include it feature ism pressure, we have they were art a little bit in all of this is art, obviously, but jean Michel Basquiat. One of the great artist and in our history here, north America. He is one of the four

several futurists of in the fine art world in he was a guy that was, it was listening to fuck it elegant parliament and groups like that and hip hop culture and formed his art there was this graffiti artist and an more name rambles eu. I looked this guy man, I had never heard of him. He died in two thousand ten, but he was a boy. Sculptor in a writer and performance artist and graffiti artist in history looks really really cool and he was used. Every one of these guys it was you know, dressing is like this futuristic show he was blending cultures and john risen ask you out was bodies with him, so all these people were do the stuff. You know it wasn't like owing to seek fame and fortune as a graffiti artists to dresses up like a futuristic, samurai right. They were doing this stuff cause it was like, but move them in it stands out because there were a lot of black people doing this kind of thing right. That's the

The initiation of a movement that where's, the arts readily octavia a also I mean I mean of hallmark of founder of black science fiction writing and also after a future ism, but just you're talking about ramble z in basque yacht. Like she wasn't. Trying to create like a place for black people, to write in science fiction. This is just what she we to escape her own life and our own self consciousness. She wrote So if I stories like this, we're gonna wait and she was We good at it, there's a a great kind biography on her called spectacular life of octavia butler that was involved that's worth reading it really that's into her her life and a career she's, a really exceptional person, but she just and started slow was They much underpaid overlooked in just kept adding kept at. Finally, in the nineties

for really sorry to recognise our went back and looked at some of her past work and said this this writers. amazing yeah, the first sci rider to get a macarthur genius grant, and there's a tv show Last year, the year before from her book, kindred yeah from nineteen. Seventy nine, which I wasn't I didn't see it. I saw the ethics cancelled it. after one sees them, but that was about it. The premises really cool about a modern black woman who time travels to meet her in the past. Who enslaved her and I remember seeing the trailers and stuff at the time I was like this looks really good, but I didn't realize that it was in octavia butler book. So I just learned that, like today or yeah. That was just one book kindred. She also had a serious called As you know, geneva series from the eighties parable of the solar was

the beginning of a series that she wrote in. I think it came out ninety ninety three, and that was the one that got everybody's attention and then they were back we're like oh good. This lady has a whole can and that we get read now because she was she's pretty me, I strongly recommend going in reading the spectacular life of octavia butler yeah. Should we take another break? Yes, ok, what's he gonna break we'll talk about, can worthing stands now and also just talk about What about the great artist right up to this, every person with a rare, auto immune condition, navigates their own unique journey. That's why, in season two of untold stories

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Starting in the late nineties. Thanks in large part method really realises until you said it too will smith getting rules like men in black, independence day. Oh, I am legend, actually I alongside remember he responded tons of siphoned movies. I never really realized it before but he was a huge kind of glass dealing breaker for african americans inside five, because up to that point it was like a feast a black person in a sci fi movie or horror movie, Now you just knew that they were one of the first ones to die. That's just like this long to any kind of drug yeah yeah, and It started to change in the nineties where they're like. Oh, actually, we can use a black protagonist in and they can actually carry the movie If you get well smith in their who else, can we give a chance to Wesley snipes yeah using blake

the matrix, of course featured not an elite, but they featured you know people of color in their trilogy, I think more and more in the second third movies, even and then you know today owes like his jordan, peel and ever futurists or maker and arrest. Stuff in like he, he dabbled in it. Some it's not like straight up after a future ism. The traditional sense that you might think of, but there certainly elements of it in everything is done, especially this this last when and nope that was more yeah me no spoilers there, but that movie was not the movie. I thought it was. It was way more cipher, airless, horror for sure, but it is kind of you know carrying that torch along in his own way, in a way that kind of dabbled in after a future isn't that his way more mainstream witches Evil thing you know yes,

That is a great example of what I was talking about earlier, where I didn't really realize. I heard the term efforts features and before obviously, but I never really looked into it so we started researching this, but I did I realize, like it, just pops up all over the place and that's a really good example of his jordan. Peels movies like yeah. They say they are not necessarily like. The whole point is, after a feature, ism Is it just shows up? It's like an influence, its part of the whole, the whole thing, and there's a colson whitehead's. Another good example of that too. He is like one of the gleaming. Beacons of literature right now and in his very realistic novel fantastic stuff can happen, and that's that ever futures and popping its head up as well get. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the future, but it falls under. Speculative fiction or speculative literature in some way shape or form yeah,

I guess we can talk about music, a little more yeah, let's be again it just like movies. In the late nineteenth things starting in the early mid nineties, things really started to take it after a future. Stick. Turning in music and by way of hip hop. If you look at the history of hiphop, the They have ever a future ism, as is kind of woven throughout it. You know earlier or groups groups that I really like digital planets and I don't know if you ever listen to any cool keith stuff, but cookies had a character in a concept album. He did called doktor octagon. It's very weird and awesome, and I won't giveaway is kind of weird he's at either time travelling, gynecologist right So I guess I did, can we give it away, but it's really good, which hang course specifically rizzo with Bobby digital, and then when I was looking at you,

like beyond, say users can have ever of futuristic aesthetics and a lot of her videos and stayed shows and so large does to but when I was kind of reading about them and genoa monet his certainly They represent every ever a future ism I could like Mr Elliot like. Why are we talking about miss eliot? Guess she was before all of them in was could real, get out there. As far as you know, talking about riding around spaceships instead, yet oliver videos are super afro, futuristic, even when she s sitting there in front of the camera like like rapid, like she's he's doing weird stuff foresees an outer space or season virtual reality, or something like that. Yeah she's. Definitely at least him if not an influence of afrofuturism features I know what I saw that I hadn't consider, but, unlike oh yeah, totally digital planets aspires their first time. They were from outer space. They were insects from outer space come to help.

World out, and I just never thought about that before. yeah they're, that's all that well? I got a side story, lt off air, but then I saw them in college in athens and then- and you saw them in court last week and then the only other, and I saw them, was on their reunion tour. A couple years ago area so the big breakin between but whose great, but the second item It was really awesome and it wasn't ever a beauty No, but it is one of the greatest number of all types of good giant where we can't talk about all of the people, but we'll talk about a couple of more because I want to mention John jennings and Stacy Robinson, two? Are there in the comic book world? They work under the name black kirby, which is obviously a refund, the great comic book artist, jack Kirby. And they re imagined sort of kirby stuff through the african american lens and how things are, the unkillable buck instead of the incredible hulk and stuff like that, is really cool. Looking

and then they are, I think, influenced by one of the first african american comic book, and writers was larry, fuller and the late sixties. I he created character, name ebon, he be o n, which I think was, First, like superhero, at least among the first. Yes, I want the black kirby characters is major saint coca, Recent creature- you say it, but it sanctifies, like it means get the spirit of going look backward into the past. And taking what's good there and take moving it into the future and it was major saint cofa. Instead of captain America and its it's cool, I like that whole concept for sure yeah. And if we're gonna talk, comics we have to choose without stanley inject kirby, because they created black panther and that is sort of, maybe the the biggest most mainstream exam. Or of afro futures. on the big screen

though we ve ever seen. These black panther movies are huge there. Why? they successful there award winning and they are afro, futuristic like to a t yeah Apparently we have chadwick bozeman thank for keeping all of the air, can characters from having british acceptance here. Man can you imagine, like colonization ahoy, like all these pity, eyebrows jackson, so heap insist, did that they speak with the south african accent, not the british kind, but, oh sir, I did it that that day, the the action they were speaking with the poster closer you did it I gotta three down. Those are pretty good. I think it's hawser, no, not anymore. we'll german knows as a different. The hard thing to do? It's that the zulu? You know I click language for lack of a better Term, but it some it's hard to do it is you have to go

at the same time that you're saying something. I practice it earlier, and I was like- I can't do it. So I was going to try foot hats off to you, sir. So casa assets held trevor. Noah, said: ok and of course he was on this down Well he's around south africa of the fur to him so where are we now with afro future ism? We are in a better place than we therefore ban. As far as more and more stuff, it's becoming more mainstream. Is just sort of different in other than it used to be But this is where we ve got to the point where people, or to drill down on the term. Some people say like you know, is it? Is it just two broad of a thing all sort of all this stuff. F, you ever a mannequin messing up after future ism. When it, you know there are people,

because it beginning they said no. It should always believe his name was his science fiction, fancy writer nigerian american name. Turkey on your boots said, It should always be addressing world, is alec, rising black suffering. Otherwise it shouldn't count. though people have formed other words like astro, black That's a pretty cool one year s no gothic that one's name, my alex out into the black fantastic magical realism, em there's another another nigerian american science fiction, writer name indeed a core afore. I think a pronouncing that right and she going the term african futurists and so you know these these african american or are great like I also like to tell the story, is through the lens of that, you know, africans in so african future ism is, in all these cultures. Yeah

can computers in african jewess defer fantasy kind of stuff. I'm that was that debate. I was talking about earlier. I guess it just through the lens of african americans or what, So when you said it, it's gone mainstream. We reached the point where its becoming so mainstream that it's just part of power. culture, it's not like a separate tangential or additional part of pop culture, it's infused into pop culture, and so you So the point where you liked even need a name for this anymore is right it is what it is and if that's the case, then thin people like samuel, Delaney and all people came before him, octavia butler son raw george cling were fully success. Even if they didn't intend to do to create something like that? they were still successful in their own way out I think it so mainstream. Now there are four

were studio. Executives, that are alike the black people and space thing had networks as theirs. Why don't we have our urgent zactly right, and that means mainstream? means that everybody needs a figure out. A new artistic path to blaze. That's right and I don't feel bad making fun of the studio exacts because they are. I want to pay their artists, fair wages, and that's why the writers on strike. a quick couple, more people, man's l, bowman, as a graphic designer. He does amazing stuff, lina iris viktor, an amazing painter, kamasi, washington, kind of carrying on the vibe of sun ra, but way way more melodic and then like you said. You know monet she's, the poster child of effort, features and right now to her with her concept, Alan turing, computer and book set in the same world memory. Librarian she's is totally going nuts on it and outright you mean by the way, just loves her has a crush on her. She said well, cheap

Is it just about say she's, also, my celebrity crush. You mean I share that really great yeah, it's hard not do I gotta keep you in human genome and out of the same room. Let's get it dirty computer meant what a great record now and I'm was he beyond say later this year and I've never been to a big pop, Joe, like that in my life, and I just like having you know- I'm not even not even a huge beyond, say, fan just cause. Not something I listen to much but, like you know, I want to go to one of these big pop chosen and blankets. Who else should I go to my candidacy? Taylor, swift are gonna, be answered, her less I mean I'm sure the tables which shows great do but yeah bounties looks like more. It might be taylor, swift, her show- This tourists apparently three hours long. Yet it was the amazing my mom when actually she got free tickets there friendlier and then go to stuff like that in my country, concerts and stuff, and isn't it

the big taylor swift, personage, used to suck it was so great. Well, think we all knew at the beginning of this episode that there was a hundred percent chance any less with love. A gunman. Well, if you I know more about after a few truism, you can do a lot worse than going to instagram and search for that hashtag and start looking look all over the internet and you will find a whole new world of pretty cool stuff, including some stuff, you already knew about it, never really thought about. Ok agreed. since trucks chuck's a degree to sign for listener mail, Ok, I'm gonna call this round fat. Oh yeah, delicious. We talked about that and elsewhere linking think of was our intermittent fasting episode Others are pillars of deficit.

Hey guys, just finished listening to it intermittent fasting and was so excited when brown fat was mentioned, I learned about brown fat this past year in school. My biochemistry class is more amazing than what Josh was even guessing in the episode kissing know. I was speaking you are speaking some facts. brown, fats, main biological purposes, to release heat to keep them in temperature. Stable said that actually To do this, it actually breaks down white fat in a way that allows for more he'd, be released. Perfet molecule burn. Then, if regular cells were breaking down the white van, because this helps keep but each temperature stable People who live in cold environments, adapter living there by having more branford brown fat cells and some people who do not Babies are also borne with high brown fat levels and keeps them help them adapt to life outside the womb for the first few days, just really wanna. Thank you guys for everything you ve done for me over the years started listening and twenty eight june in high school,

This graduated with my bachelors and chemical engineering from the university of tennessee. All congratulate sees them. go balls, and that is from Sarah baton thanks. Sarah, thank you very much and thanks to brown fat too. For being so great that Sarah wrote a listener mail about yeah, I mean that's a band name and no need to recognize that at the time MR trump fat, like one of those albums where the name of the band, the first song an album, are all the same. I can't think of one right now, but it's definitely

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