Hey danish words here. Host of the brand new podcast Popcorn book Club feel like so many books. These days are getting the Hollywood treatment and I am one of those people that has to read the book before I watch the movie, and so I talk four of my smartness Anthony as friends into starting a book club with me were reread super fuzzy box and talk about them every week. If you like Marianne, we'll talk about it like you know, I do anything. You want me to an elite man, I'm like you're, a human being you're, not at them like a control so coming June, twenty nine listen to popcorn club on the Iheart Radio F on Apple pod casts or wherever you get your podcast.

Happy Saturday. Everyone coming up on the show. We have an interview with Doktor Rachel Lance author of the book in the waves, my quest to solve the mystery of a civil war submarine that book or accounts are Phd in research into the disaster aboard the HIV humbly. And since the interview is more focused on her research than on the greater story of the humbly and what happened wanted to replay that earlier episode is Saturday Classic for folks. You may not know or may not remember the details. We briefly discussed for research from back before the book was published at the end of the episode. One thing to know there's discussion about, one of the huntings predecessors, the pioneer in this episode, which her research uncover different information about and we're gonna leave that the upcoming interview. But when you get to that part just now We will be revisiting it in a couple of days. This episode originally came out August thirtieth. Twenty seventh welcome to stuff human.

In history class, a production of Iheart Radio and welcome the baton cast. I'm Tracy be Wilson and apparently fry. We have passed a subject that has been in the news lately. Tat is the see us as ancient humbly, that's a following: a newly published paper on the cause of death for the people who were inside that confederate submarine when it was lost, and typically it's this, of news that we would cover with an episode update where we would either play the previous episode first and talk the new developments afterward or the other way around, but that previous appearance of the hungry our show, is from the twenty eleven episode more shipwreck stories battleships. So it's only about eight minutes of an episode. That also covers several other shipwrecks as well. So, instead of doing a normal episode update that we might do typically in another

circumstances. We are going to give the HIV humbly, though full treatment today and huge huge thanks to Rachel Lance who dropped as a note about the humbly. A few days before we recorded this she's the authors on this paper that just came out about it, which actually grew out of her Phd research that we will be talking about that some more later in the episode and the story of the no honey. We really begins with the union blockade of the confederacy during the civil war, which was ordered less than a week after the fall of Fort Sumter in South Carolina. So for a quick recap. After multiple slave states cleaning South Carolina seceded after the election of Abraham, Lincoln Major Robert Anderson of the. U S, Army occupied Fort Sumter and refused to hand it over to the Confederacy and after a couple of skirmishes, a confederate force attack the fort on April twelfth and the. Union surrendered it on the thirteenth. The attack on for some, is generally marked as the official beginning of the war

immediately after this, the United States government started working on a plan to cut off the southern ports from international shipping. The goal was to prevent the south from exporting its goods, including cotton and produce, and to prevent southern states from importing trade aids, weapons and other material that would be needed for the war, as was all part of a military strategy called the Anaconda plan meant to choke off the south and bring a speedy end to the conflict. There is some debate about how effective this wise. It definitely made things tougher on the south, but the war was definitely not brought to a remotely speedy end. By putting into place the government had to mean options for stopping commerce at the southern ports. President Lincoln can issue and executive order, closing

or a blockade could prevent ships from entering or leaving them either way, though, cutting off the southern states to shipping would have a negative impact on international trade, which meant other nations were likely to object. So the like, international response had to be part of that decision. They were pros and cons to each of these two strategies and executive order. Closing the ports would be simpler. It would not require a massively huge navy to enforce, but it would also be difficult to enforce business actually true, since violators would need to be tried in the state where they violated the order, which at that point would have been a state under confederate control. That would make such a proceeding highly unlikely that was really easy to imagine someone just ignoring the order, knowing that it wasn't likely or even impossible that they would be prosecuted for it. A blockade, on the other hand, was an internationally recognised wartime action and standards for blockades had been outlined in the eighteen,

these six declaration of Paris. Although the? U S was not a signatory of the declaration, it could expect other nations to respect the blockade as long as it was implemented and maintained in a way that followed international law. The only exception would be of other nations were willing to officially take the southern side in the conflict which would put them at war with the United States. But at the same time employees The blockade would shift the framing of the war. You might remember how, in our podcast on nuclear close calls, the United States presented its blockade of Cuba during the cuban missile crisis as a quarantine, rather than as a blockade, because a blockade, seemed a state of war and the United States was not at war with Cuba at that time. So this was similar blue. Creating. The southern states meant that the union was recognising the confederacy as an opposing belligerent. This meant that,

was no longer an insurrection or rebellion or some kind of internal matter. It was a war between two separate opposing entities. On April nineteenth, President Lincoln issued a proclamation ordering the blockade of the entire confederate coast, with the exception of North Carolina in Virginia he issued a second proclamation eight days later, which added those two states to the plan. In the words of his initial proclamation quote. For this purpose, a competent force will be posted so as to prevent entrance and exit of vessels from the ports aforesaid. If, therefore, with a view to violate such blockade of vessel, shall approach or shall attempt to leave any of the said ports, she will be duly warned by the commander of one of the blockading.

Those who will endorse on her register the fact and date of such warning and if the same vessel shall again attempt to enter or leave the blockaded port she will be captured and sent to the nearest convenient port for such proceedings against her and her cargo. His prize as may be deemed advisable, This was a colossal undertaking. The plan involved not only blocking the twelve major southern ports, but also guarding its higher coastline. This is about three thousand five hundred miles or five thousand six hundred kilometers, and although leaders hope too that it could be done with about thirty warships, it became clear really quickly. Thirty with not nearly enough small vessels, dodged the warships, guarding the ports by travelling along inland waterways and commerce, continued sexually unimpeded. I mean it was harder to do, but at least they did make much of a bent and bid getting done

that continue to the southern ports. For months, Gideon Wells Secretary of the Navy then established a blockade strategy board which convened this Miss Sony, an institution and made an extensive study of southern waterways to try to figure out how to bolster this blockade. Their research stretched from July to September of eighteen sixty one and they ultimately issued ten total reports on how to make the blockade more effective. The number of block eating ships would RO well into the hundreds, and by the end of the war, the United States would have the largest navy on earth. Meanwhile, the confederacy worked out a number of strategies to try to get around this blockade. For a time the confederate government tried it. In letters of mark to private tears, to operate from the southern ports and try to take prizes from union trade ships. This was particularly effective at distracting me And it states, maybe for the first several months of the war, but as the blockade got tightened, privateers,

not being able to sneak out and in to the southern ports, so their usefulness decline and eventually they're used in the war really waned. Another technique was blockade, runners, small lightweight sailing vessels and steamers, most of them, civilian vessels that largely operated at night blockade runners would sneak in and out of southern ports and carry goods to and from neutral ports like Bermuda and a soft Charleston. South Carolina was a hotspot for blockade runners until early one thousand, eight hundred and sixty three. When the union significantly reinforce the blockade there, then most blockade running activity, move to Wilma North Carolina, small vessels ran the blockade all through the Gulf Coast throughout the war as well anger and have been North Carolina and spent a fair amount of time in the windin and rightful beach areas. In the summer blockade runners have kind of a folks.

Quality, like they're kind of a nod to the very romanticized idea of how the civil war went down. Re have kind of a stick: into the man running them ok, related spirit So I have always found the story of the blockade, runners kind of fascinating from that point of view and life experience yeah that it certainly leg conjures images of just sort of some interesting stealth moving and yet- and I can see where it gets- romanticize think they're they're, even in hotels and restaurants, and things like that named the blockade, runner or or nods to famous blockade runners today. Those words will always mean star wars. So, of course, there were not just efforts to run the blockade, but also to destroy the ships in the blockade themselves, and that is what brings us to the sea as S h, L humbly

but she will talk more about after a sponsor break this episode of stuff. You missed in history, glances brought by Norton three sixty with lifelong, how use your time and what you Mustn T was totally within your control, Europe, personal information. On the other hand, that is another story, because when you shop Bank or browse online, your personal information gets out there and you can lose control of it, exposing you to cyber crime, but you can get back the sense of control over how to help protect yourself and your personal information. Thankfully, there's Norton three sixty with life, in all in one membership, for your cyber safety that gives you device security, identity, theft, protection, a Vps for online privacy and more plus, if there is an item, Did he theft related problem? They have agents who will work to fix it now, no one can prevent all cybercrime and identity theft, but Norton three sixty would lifelong is.

Powerful ally to help protect EU in today's connected world sign up today for Norton, three sixty with lifelong membership and you'll save twenty five percent or more off your first year, go to night dot com, slash history, that's Norton! coms, lash history for twenty five percent off. The eight hour humbly of men for tourists and Lawson Huntley was born in Tennessee on June Twentieth, eighteen, twenty three. He got a law degree from the University of Louisiana, which has now two Lane University in eighteen, forty, nine and he opened a war practice in New Orleans. He also work at the North New Orleans Customs House, and he previously served in the Louisiana Legislature in eighteen, fifty nine eighteen sixty he bought a plantation

in addition to the enslaved labor that worked on the plantation. According to the eighteen, fifty census, he enslaved eight people for domestic work at his home in New Orleans by one thousand eight hundred and sixty one. He was doing pretty well financially, but he was always interested in finding new ways to bring in additional income, and one of these was the development of a submarine vessel to be you the Confederate WAR effort. This fairly seems to have been a scheme that was driven more by money and by pride than by patriotism. Although He himself was a slave owner and he supported the institution of slavery. He also thought it was really foolish and short sighted for the south to be going to war over it, but business man and they can. Government had offered substantial prizes to anyone who could sink a union worship and only really hoped to get himself one of their prizes, and he was

though, wanting to make his own mark on history of establish a legacy for himself in his pursuit of a workable submarine humbly teamed up with other financial backers and went to James Mc Lean. Talk and engineer who was living in New Orleans Who had also been working on a small underwater craft with Baxter Watson, and once they were all working together? Their first attempt at a submarine was the pioneer which was at thirty five foot long, roughly cylindrical vessel with tapered ends. It was powered by two men turning a crank while a commander controlled the day and used Finns to steer. Although the pioneer essentially worked- and it was authorized for private hearing with the letter of Mark it, one particularly refined, it moved slowly and the league

and it never saw combat. When the union captured New Orleans in April of eighteen, sixty two, the team intentionally scuttled it so that it would not fall into enemy hands. This might be where things like privateers get romanticized, because you have to have nerves of steel to be like. The centrally a big beryl. I think I'll, take an underwater and pull a crank. Yet this hall they talk about in the prior episode, which I think was room surrender Billina about how nerve racking it must have been to me in any of these vessels and Emily point being in a submarine is still a pretty closed in tight quarters experience. But these were just basically metal tubes that you had to crawl into and crouch yeah yeah The submarine I built in my back yard. He could take on the war effort in it. That would be scary and from their humbly Watson. Emma Clinton fled to Mobile Alabama where they met Thomas W Park and Thomas be lions of the park and lions machine shop, and it was

the bees these five men, along with William a Alexander, worked on another submarine american diver, their efforts with the however, one merely as successful as they had been with the pioneer, though Maclntyre spent months, trying to develop an engine that good power the sub, rather than using the power of human beings turning cranks because moving fresh air into it, merciful, craft was a tricky proposition, musing and ends in rather than human exertion, for repulsion would give it a greater range and more power, but and get an engine that was small enough to fit. So we ultimately gave up after having spent months trying and then went back to the crank method that they were using before any wound. For the design that was slightly larger than the pioneer and had to should a crude, a power that drink performed well enough in time,

in the lake, but even with two more men working the crank. Once the american diver was launched into the sea, it wasn't powerful enough to overcome the pull the tide the crew had to struggle just to make it back to port, and once they did reasons that are entirely clear. The vessel was immediately swamped and sank, and it has never been recovered. So not only have seem spent months working on a vessel that didn't work in real world conditions and then lost it. It also sunk all of their capital into that venture. They would have been out of the submarine game entirely. Had they not found a new investor that was EDGAR, see singer of Texas, who is an expert in Turkey? Those and singer arrived in mobile in the spring of eighteen, sixty three and was impressed enough with their progress that he funded work on another submarine which took place over that spring and summer. The result was the shall Huntley, which was originally named. The fish boat had not clear to me exactly really

used it to them only tell was longer than the pioneer or the american Diver, with a total link, the forty feet or twelve metres that included at twenty five foot or seven point six meter, main compartment and then running all through that compartment was the crank connected to a propeller by a series of gears that would be operated by a crew of seven space. Inside of the scrap was very, tight. Those men would basically one at a time crawl, oars, sorted sidle their way and then Kuntz over this central crank and the man he was the one in the income and of the vessel controlled the depth and the direction I am so cluster phobic just hearing that description, Tracy's watching we win

squirm and the air there aren't gonna forget episode on that I'll be on. Our website is like a diagram of white. The thing look like it is fear is very sweet, tight and leave her out of the water. The huntley looked like a giant metal too, would tapered ends and fins and a couple of domes on top, but in the water it was pretty easy to mistake for workers are a dolphin bellows and snorkel teams are used to be fresh air into the craft, with a lip candle, providing an early warning system for oxygen getting too low. It's one of the things that private hosts, remarked on is being full nerve racking to have to keep an eye on a candle to know. If you had enough air, the graphs buoyancy in depth were controlled through a pair of ballast tanks, one for and one aft, and each of them was equipped with own pump. The pumps were also capable of removing water out from the crew compartment, which was somewhere. It should not be the vessels. Buoyancy was a very

delicate balance and too much water collecting in the main compartment would cause the vessel to think they began testing the hermit in the Mobile River in July of eighteen, sixty three working, the bugs out before inviting confederate military officials to observe they conducted a successful demonstration on July thirty, first, which involved approaching a barge in the river while towing a mine, and when I got close to the barge the Huntley submerged pass under it and resurfaced farther up the river. Meanwhile, once the mine came in contact with the barge exploded and sank it. This demonstration was a clear success, but it was not met with the unanimous approval. Among the Confederate Navy, summary

technology and general was viewed with some suspicion and a lot of people thought it was dishonourable or underhanded to sneak up on an enemy and attack it in a way that had no hope at all of defence. The whole of the whole collection of torpedoes in mines and things like that that exploded in the utter were all known as infernal machine at this point in history. The counter argument to them

I believe that it was desirable to be using these things to blow up a ship when people had no way of defending themselves was basically that, as underdogs with fewer naval resources than the union, that confederacy basically had these. Whatever tools, they had a hand Rear Admiral Franklin, Buchanan Commander of the naval District of the Gulf, was one military figure who did not entirely trust submarines. Yet he was the one who contacted Flag officer John Randolph Tucker, who was in command of the Confederate Navy in Charleston, to unreservedly recommend the Hamleys use against the blockade. Their Tucker pass. The recommendation on two general p e g T Beauregard, who mediately requested that the humbly be sent to Charleston Tucker had apparently been confident enough. That Beauregard would want to take this infernal submarine off of his hands that he had already made arrangements the transported it Charleston before he actually got that permission. The homely winter

Burleson by train, or it arrived in August. Soon the Confederate Navy took control of it feeling the civilian team's progress was too slow, but on August 29th, one thousand eight hundred and sixty three, while at the dock being prepared for a training mission, the Hunley sank: Five of the eight crew aboard were killed horizontally then demanded that the control of the submarine be returned back to him from the confederate military, and this was granted, but it did not end well for him either. On October fifteenth, he planned a demonstration and in which he would dive a confederate vessel and in surface again on the other side, with himself in command of the vessel. But after the guy, the humbly did not come back up again only himself, along with the rest of the crew were all killed and due to bad way.

The vessel wasn't recovered for weeks when it was recovered at turned out. A vow of on the ballast tank was open, which it allowed water from the sea into the crew compartment, which had sunk the vessel and killed every one aboard, although they had managed to raise the HIV humbly from the sea floor. After both of these incidents, General Beauregard was understandably reluctant to allow the vessel to be used again, but Lieutenant George Dixon, who had previously lived in mobile and had worked at the park and lions machine shop when the humbly was built ass to be put in charge of it. Dixon was finally given permission to target the you USS Housatonic, which was part of the union blockade of Charleston fixing, carry out this operation on February 17th, one thousand eight hundred and sixty four after about two months of training and practice for the crew, and we will talk about the mission and how it went both well and poorly after sponsor break.

Hey danish whore tier hosts of the brand new podcast popcorn, both club feels like so many books. These days are getting the Hollywood treatment, and I am one of those people that has to read the book before I watch the movie, so I thought Four of my smart. I stand funniest friends into starting a book club with me. We read super buzzy books and talk about them. Every week, then we will get an elephant writing and then right the book about and then she breathed before we go into the rest of the budget is also our favorite rough allows. My Russia is brown, eternal sunshine of the spy glass at is good, but we start June, twenty ninth with normal people by Sally ruining. Oh, my god, if you have read it, you are absolutely going to love that irish teens and love totally irresistible. You might fall in love with colonel and

If you watch the tv show, I'm telling you now Marin is gonna, make you want to cut your on bangs dont. Do it trusts me it's a mistake so June, twenty nine listen to popcorn, club on the I hurt radio ass, an apple pie casts or wherever you get your broadcasts. When the AIDS L humbly embarked on its mission to destroy the union. Ship use a tonic. It was no longer towing a mine behind it, as it had done in that initial demonstration in the mobile river. Instead, it was equipped with a black powder torpedo attached to the end of a twenty foot spar. So for the sake of clarity, he knows at this point generally did not have any kind of propulsion or guidance like they do today. They were a lot more like minds than modern torpedoes. They usually have

Just be rammed into their target and some physical way, the plan for the Hunley was to do exactly that and then raise a blue phosphorus lamp to signal with the mission was complete and after seeing the signal men on Sherwood Light, a fire at the Huntley could use to navigate home. The only approach, the Housatonic at about eight p dot m on February 17th, one thousand eight hundred and sixty four Robert F Fleming one of the few black men stationed aboard spotted something odd in the water. He alerted act masters mate. Louis, a comp who observed the objects and said that it was a log Fleming, did not agree with this assessment, given the objects shape and the fact that it was traveling quickly across the tide instead of

the time he alerted another sailor on watch that there was a torpedoing coming, the whose satanic was prepared for a submarine attack. Thanks to word carried by confederate deserters. The union knew that the Confederate Navy had a vessel that could approach ships while partially or entirely submerged the semi submersible David had also attacked the. U S: s New Ironsides, the previous October. So all the blockade, ships in the area took the precaution of anchoring in fairly shallow water and keeping the boilers ready to move if necessary, evil. So the responsible lose a tonic, was kind of sluggish, flemings observations, weren't readily heated, leading him to say he was going to slip. The anchor chain himself if he had to and was only after complicate, took a second look with binoculars that he actually sent word up the chain of command that an incoming vessel,

on the way eventually acting master. John Crosbie alerted the captain. Charles Pickering, as the rest of the crew began, trying to take a base of action, Pickering began Irish on the homely with his shot guns, the homely had already gotten to close for them to hit with a cannon, in spite of the efforts aboard the who satanic the humbly successfully deployed its torpedo, blowing a huge hole in the side of the ship and causing it to rapidly sink since it had been in shallow water with the hope of deterring a submarine attack. It came to rest with its rigging above the waterline in those crew. Not able to make it to lifeboats were able

cling to the rigging. While waiting for rescue by other ships in the blockade use a tonic, sank and variable aboard with salvageable afterward, most of the crew did survive. Five were killed out of a total of about a hundred, and fifty five Fleming reported that, while awaiting rescue, he saw a blue light on the water, presumably the honeys signal of success and are some debate about what he might have seen, though he wouldn't have had knowledge of the Hamleys Signal plans, and he wouldn't have had reason to make it up, but it seems likely that the only light actually burning aboard the Huntley was the king oh that was used to monitor the oxygen level only also never made it back to port data will lapse. In communication there on shore officials in Charleston didn't actually realized. The ship was missing for days and with no sir

driving witnesses on their side, it took the Confederate Navy awhile to confirm that the new satanic had been sunk as well. The confederate Navy tried to keep the word of the honeys loss from spreading. It would have been impossible to try to locate or raise the ship since it had gone down in the vicinity of the blockade and no one aboard had survived to give its precise location, but it was useful to the confederacy for the union to believe it still had the capability of a surprise: marine attack and believing the humbly, or at least the crew were still out. There was also a boost to flagging confederate morale once it was clear, that no one had survived theories abounded about. What might have happened that my aboard the Huntley perhaps but water had gotten into the homely when the hat was open to raise that blue light and it had sunk. Perhaps the explosion had

damage. The vessel or gunfire from the ship had pierced the hall or maybe in the thrill of the moment that candle had burned out, and nobody had noticed since the captain of the So was the only one who could really control its direction or its depth if he had been killed or injured, somehow than his loss would have doomed the whole crew. There was a lot of speculation, but no one had any idea the humbly stayed in its place. Seafloor long beyond the end of the civil war in eighteen, sixty five more than one hundred and thirty years later on May third, one thousand nine hundred and ninety five and expedition by the national underwater and marine Agency, which she'll see abbreviated to Numa, spearheaded by author Clive Cussler discovered it in the Charleston harbor. Raised from the sea floor on August, eighty two thousand, but when it was open, things became even more mysterious. The entire crew were bill at their stations, apparently having made no effort at all to escape and showing no

evidence of Syria injury among what remained of their corpses. Dixons pocket watch was stopped at eight twenty three leading to questions of whether it had been running slowly and had stopped at the moment of impact or if it had just run down, and the time was a coincidence, in terms of it being close to the time of day that they attack the here's, a tonic, dixons lucky twenty dollars. In which he held on to you after it partially deflected a musket ball that struck him in the leg of the battle of Shiloh was recovered from the wreck as well, apart from the condition of the crew, the vessel self, was also intact, with nothing to indicate that it had been taking on water or incapacitated in some way. There were two holes in its sides and missing glass pains from one of the viewports, but this was eventually determined to have happened long after the Huntley came to rest on the and floor, and this all brings us to the new research that made headlines in August of twenty seventeen while doing work on

Phd dissertation about injury and trauma patterns from underwater explosions. Rachel Lance looked at data from several famous historical battles that involves underwater explosions, and one of these was the EL humbly. This eventually lead to a paper published in plus one on August, twenty third, twenty seventeen entitled quote air blast injuries killed the crew of the submarine h, L humbly since the Hamley was on the sea floor for more than a hundred years. Coming to this conclusion required construction of a one, six scale model of the ship which they make the sea s S tiny. The Csf tiny was exposed to a variety of underwater blasts in a pond in Saint Louis North Carolina with the data from all those exclusions collected and analyze. You can read this entire paper online and we will link to it in the show notes. But, to sum it up quote the blast produced likely caused flexion of the ship hall to transmit the blast way

The second very wave transmitted inside the crew compartment was of sufficient magnitude that the calculated chances of survival were less than sixteen percent for each crew member the summer mean drifted to its resting place after the crew died of air blast trauma within the hall, the blast wave wasn't enough to physically through the crew around or damage their skeletons, but it was enough to cause massive lethal pulmonary trauma which either killed the crew instantly or incapacitated them beyond the ability to trying to escape this. Of course, I have some limitations, no matter how accurate a scale model is still a scale model The analyses required proportionately scaled down blasts to be done in that lake. There is also some debate about exactly how large the payload of the Hamleys black powder torpedo was, and also to confirm.

Findings, modern autopsy would have needed to have been performed on the bodies of the crew when they initially died more than a hundred years ago. No, that's not gonna happen. So when time travel gets invented, we're going to assess this. We have so many terrible since that time travel on light, could you maybe have leg? prevented us from. We re all know we're going to figure out what happened, but given all the other factors about how the event transpired in all the other him unanswered questions and how the crew Was found, it does make a lot of sense as an explanation today, the angel humbly has been through a massive conservation that has removed more than one thousand two hundred pounds or about five hundred forty four kilograms of concrete action from the vessel and its at the Warren Lash Conservation Centre in North Charleston, South Carolina, the where conservation work is still ongoing, tours are available, but only

Weekends. To allow for conservation work during the week, the Hamleys crew were also given a funeral and buried on April. Seventeenth, two thousand four in the same cemetery as the men killed in its prior sinkings had been laid to rest. The next successful attack by a submarine during a wartime would be on September fifth, nineteen fourteen. When the German, you twenty one hit the british Pathfinder with a torpedo sinking it and killing two hundred and fifty six one of the angel We ve gotten several requests for the angel hundred humbly over the years, and it was only more recently that I realised that it had been in that one eight minute segment earlier. Yet so, thanks again to Rachel and for setting as a moan about this and where we will link to the paper. Does have other authors. In addition to her as well. We willing to that from the shadows for folks who want to read it. It is very interesting.

Thank you so much for joining us today for this matter to a classic. If you have heard any kind of key mail address, there may be a facebook url during the course of the opposite that might be obsolete. It might be doubly obsolete because we have changed our Emil address again. You can now reaches at history podcast that I heart radio, dot com and we're all over social media at missed in history, and you can subscribe to our shared on Apple POD, CAS Google Podcast, the eye heart radio app and wherever else to us in the pod gas Duffy missed in history classes the production of a heart radio for more planned cats. For my heart radio method, but I her radio haven't my casts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.