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the deal on minds, the business small business success stories, a new show from my heart radio and into a quick books, will learn what it takes to run. A thriving small business on the pod cast hosted by financial content creators, Austin, hank, wits, engineers torres you'll hear inspiring real life stories from dreamers and creators about the business models that turn their ideas into reality. Listen to mind the business small beer, the success stories on the I hurt, radio, app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast, Happy saturday, race, We in our episode on Susie king taylor, we talked about her account of celebrating the emancipation proclamation with a barbecue Finally, that section of the episode also had a discussion of the preliminary emancipation proclamation which basically gave the rebelling slave states a deadline to stop fighting and rejoin the youth

Otherwise, all enslaved people in those states would be free. Where was the laundress for the first south carolina volunteers, which were officially mustard in on november? Seventh? Eighteen sixty two in the window between when lincoln, issued the preliminary emancipation proclamation and when the emancipation proclamation went into effect ass. She watched that a lot of things with I've been laundress, but that's how she was enrolled in the volunteers so that part of apis out. I cut that out. It wound up feeling kind of, like a digression, but we do have a whole episode on the preliminary emancipation proclamation and the political strategy behind it and its impact on a civil war. This was an interview with doktor John, be king jr, who at the time was the secretary of education under president Barack Obama. Today is chancellor of the state university. New york, this originally came out on august thirty. First, twenty sixteen enjoy welcome

don't you missed in history class, a production of I heart radio. Hello and welcome to the podcast tracy me and I'm holly frye. We have an interview today, yeah you did. I did I did do it. We haven't had an interview in a while, that's correct. Today we are talking into the secretary of education, John b, king jr and secretary king, join the united states department of education as a principal senior adviser and twenty fifteen, and before that he was the commissioner of education for the state of new york. But his career really began as an educator. He taught social studies and zan in puerto rico and boston Massachusetts, and then earlier this year we got an email from the department of education asking whether we might like to have him on the show. I just I'm going to go ahead and thank the department of education for asking that, because this turned out to be quite lovely

because the answer was immediately. Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but then it was also k with. How would that work? Because we were not really, you know an education policy, pod gandia that would that wouldn't really billet. Our listeners would be up for so what we did was we quickly decided on a topic that, at that point was completely new to me and I think, also to highly it was the preliminary emancipation proclamation I had never heard of this before it was never mentioned in any of my history classes. It also come up in any of our many previous episodes about slavery, the civil war and reconstruction of which we have a lot. Until our recent episode on contraband camps, that huh, the research that actually was researched after this whole interviews, scheduled. Yes behind it happened. Yet it hadn't happened yet, and I think part of it is that this particular document,

gets a mast into like a big kind of glossed over thing of well. There was a lot of back and forth. You know leading up to the emancipation proclamation in it kind of gives lumped in and it doesn't get a moment to stand on its own and be examined dear. The emancipation proclamation. The final one issued by Abraham lincoln on january first of eighteen. Sixty three is of course way more familiar to most people. That's the one that declared that people enslaved in states that were rebelling against the union quote are and henceforward shout be free. That January first emancipation proclamation did not immediately free everyone who is enslaved in the united states. It we applied to the confederate states that were in rebellion, but it did just set. This age for the eventual abolition of slavery in the entire united states. Another date that comes up pretty regularly is june team, which is june nineteenth of eighteen, sixty five, which is when the people of Galvin

and Texas finally got the news, the emancipation, proclamation had happened at that point. The war had also ended, as so a lot of times that comes up as like the last, like the last hold out of channels. In the united states. Slavery was formerly by abolish nationwide, with the adoption of the thirteenth amendment on December, eighteenth of eighteen sixty five, so we're talking about today is as all stuff from way before that The preliminary emancipation proclamation was basically a one hundred day warning of the proclamation that was to come that following january, that gimme itself is one of secretary kings particular interests. and while he was commissioner of education in new york, he took the document itself on a seven city tour as part of an exhibition called first step to freedom, the exhibition started out at the schomburgh centre for research in black culture in new york city, and

mayors, we said it toured to seven other cities. Secretary king also co, authored the text that went along with that exhibition, the first part of our interview with him. We are going to talk about why lincoln decided to basically warn the rebelling states of what was coming and how that document fit into the arc of how this, a war progressed from originally from in point of view being more about retaining the union to eventually from the union point of view being about abolishing slavery, third joining us today. As secretary of education, John, be king Jr. Thank you so much for being on the show today happy to do it though I have heard from so many folks on your staff, that one of your passions is

the preliminary emancipation proclamation and so on september. Twenty second eighteen, sixty two, which was one hundred days before he issued the emancipation proclamation. President. Abraham lincoln issued this preliminary proclamation that sad, among other things, that if the rebelling states did not return of the union therein, enslaved populations would be forever freed. So what led, to president lincoln, basically warning the rebelling states that this was going to happen. Well, you know. In many ways it was for lincoln a manner of political strategy right to build public a round the emancipation proclamation he wanted to both convey that the south- have had an opportunity to return to the union and also build public understanding that this was a essential

step in order to successfully prosecute the civil war, an interestingly he here he's timed issue and preliminary emancipation proclamation. For a moment when the north doing better in the civil wars over the date that it was is actually bound up with the. battle at antietam, and it was this success there that allowed him to issue because he had been warned by secretary seward in July that if he issued the primary mandate proclamation at low moment in the conflict, it would seem like desperation, but if he did it after a victory, it would seem like a more confident maneuver done tat. Give it a chance. To returned to the union and on the right terms or to move forward to finish the war

There are any chance at all that that their rebelling states were going to region. in the union after this essentially threat. No think this really was lincoln s master politician, figuring out what it would take to build public. Well, he also on a real live the historical importance of demand emancipation proclamation. In many ways it was a a fulfillment of the promise of bad exploration independence, their critical defining moment for country, and I think one in turn have the amount Patient proclamation have the strongest possible ball

foundation a because he he recognize it's importance so that part of this was, as you said, leave laying the legal groundwork for future emancipation. So what would have happened if these states had rejoined the union in an effort? it's not have their slaves emancipated will increasingly in the preliminary emancipation proclamation their language around the possibility that there would be answer. Financial, renew admiration for the owners of flame. If that play states returned that language does not appear in the Then the january eighteen, sixty three emancipation proclamation and so lincoln had a vision that we see in fear.

That the institution of slavery could have been on a path to disappearance eliminated in the territory's sir phased out and now states that had slavery and place, but I, but I think, are ultimately lincoln understood that this was a step that would ultimately change the nature of the war and make the war fundamentally not just about protecting me union, but about ending the institution of slavery. That really leads really well, and so my next question, which at the start of the war. Several slave states had basically promised that they would succeed if lincoln was elect it, and so then he was elected and they did succeed but from lincoln's point of view, the war at them getting was not really so much about slavery as it was about preserving

The union, and it was like the focus actually became. It came around to the abolition of slavery as the war progressed. So where does the preliminary emancipation proclamation fit into this arc of of moving from it being about preserving the union to also being about ending the institution of slavery You think question and one that them willing the scholar of lincoln, have debated there's one view that is then lincoln always intended to make progress towards the eventual abolition of slavery, savvy and thoughtful politician understood it first step- was to not have slavery. Expand into the internet territories as the war began saga, or to nanny jammu

towards emancipation and, pursued, the preliminary emancipation proclamation and the emancipation proclamation as a as a tactic to satisfy his ultimate goal. Of the elimination of slavery. That's one view Another view is banned. Lincoln was most guess always on preservation of the union and end We have chosen there above all, our new. There is, of course, that in there fine language from lincoln, where, where he tries to make that make the point that he would preserving and above all else, whether that was with or without the institution of slavery Our view is that that was agenda. article articulation of his view and and and another view would be, that it was a political strategy,

Then he realized he had to build public will over time and on end some of lincoln trading. You hear him talking, the idea that public will is essential to accomplishing things that are hard and that you need to bring the public along though I love the idea of the president's meeting, to bring the public along with him ass. He and the nation were gradually moving towards abolishing slavery. Let idea has been present so so many social changes we have talked about on the show before, like we've, talked about some really difficult times in the united states, where at aims needed to be made and it took a while to bring. People along to be more on board with the change. So it's really interesting to talk about this document as one he's, a more gradual attempt to to change the public view too

the idea that abolishing slavery was really something the need to happen entirely. It is its You know we often think about this period. I think, particularly in history, in way where it it gets taught in a very black and white way, and I don't mean that to be punny. But it's like this I bend and then everybody got it and then this happened and everybody in it's like no. No, no, it was a slow burn like it. None of these, epps were immediate. They were not. You know like a door opening closing. It was all like. Gradually, you really had the lake coax it through its processes, setting continue the coaxing more than a century afterward. So weird

take a brief break for a word from a sponsor before we get back to talking to secretary king. This episode is brought to you by I and love, and you is your pet. Your best friend, one of a kind plus one listen. One of our cats is an old gentleman and every night when I go to bed, he climbs up on my chest and he puts his face up against mine and he purrs me to sleep. It's amazing and is one of those bars. Instead you just can ever replicate. If you feel that kind of love you feed this kind of love, I and loving you is sharing the love with all the food and treats are dogs and cats would make for themselves me now if they could, in partnership with their own patsy and a holistic veterinary,

am I in love, and you creates a variety of meals and snacks made with quality meat and vegetables that contain zero, fillers, preservatives or artificial junk. Nothing. Weird as they say, we know you're not going to taste the food, your pet is so it's all about what you can see and smell. That's why we say it's the taste: they'll go nuts for food, that's fun to eat and gives their body feel good nutrition. You can get I in love and you pet good for both cats and dogs in stores nationwide and online. At I, l Y pet dot com find the full assortment of I and love, and you dog and cat food online at amazon dot com and it I l Y pet dot com and use the code history. Twenty five for twenty five percent off the products are also available in stores nationwide, including albertsons, walmart, publix and sprouts markets. Eu

this week on labels, ammo does America John? There was visits miami to find out how this city became a mecca for cubans leaving their homeland. Since the cuban revolution, cubans have been flocking to miami anyway, they could boats. lanes and wraps little about it is filled with the crazy amounts of latin ex everything, but the best part is the people like me. How much does america all new episode Sunday April, twenty third at ten p m eastern on MSNBC and streaming anti got this episode is brought you buy, discover at the end of your first year, discover credit cards automatically double all the cash back. You ve earned that's right. Everything you earned doubled all the cash backroom eating your favorite soup, dumpling restaurant doubled all the cash back from their trip. Were you sort of learned to snowboard also doubled and the best part you don't have to do anything ridiculous to get it nope discovered? Does it automatically seriously, though, see terms and check it out for yourself at discovered outcomes?

ash match. So next have been Tracy's talk with secretary king they're gonna talk about the language of the document, which is a lot more formal and legal than the lincoln era doc. meant that a lot of u S, school, kids, windup memorizing for class, does not at all sound like four score in seven years ago, not not remotely So one of the things that I think a lot of people remember most about lincoln from their just regular history classes is the getty the gettysburg address, and that is an address that you would probably describe as being beautifully written. It has this almost poetic flow language, and this document does not really have that. It is a lot more formal and legal in its tone. Can you talk about that difference? A little bit.

Sure well, you know lincoln, was a lawyer, and he thought about this as a as illegal action. That would mean to be legally defensible and italy emancipation proclamation as exercise your presidential war powers, and so the document is in very legalistic prose and intentionally so, and he took great care in personally authoring the document The version of the programme and proclamation acclamation that new state library has the original in lincoln's own hand, even have a pasted sections from confiscation acts.

Where you can see that literally at them out and peace to them, and there is even a spot. We can see lincoln's thumbprint and glue on the document as he cut and paste it in wait. So this was this was for lincoln a very careful step and it isn't. You know, I think, one of the powerful things the teacher I'm as you're teaching these documents as to see the complexity of the role of historic um figures. You know that lincoln was president making political judgments thinking about I'm his legacy. Thinking about the importance of these events, in the grand sweep of of history, their significance for the country. He we wanted to make sure that their emancipation succeeded want to make sure you dump public support

he had a strong legal position and then navigation navigate to emancipation man, while preserving the role of the border states that were met so the union a very, very carefully executed by lincoln the first time that I actually read this. It was a transcript of the document, because I have a very hard time with historical handwriting, and I didn't realize until much later that those sections of the previous acts were literally cut out and pasted to the document and that quickly became one of my favorite things about it was that he he cut it out and pasted it on there. So it would

exactly the word for word and then also not have to rewrite the whole thing: yeah yeah old fashioned before him, and before long before that the cutting and pasting of of microsoft word yet. So there is there's one copy of this document. That's in the president's own handwriting. What happened to that physical copy? Once signed it well. So in a later the document was. Donated to our commission that was set up for the care of soldiers and medical care of soldiers The commission then held a auction and an abolition part one document an auction. He bought a lot of tickets and the auction and raffle and then the near it legislature allocated by the document from him.

and that's how I came to be in possession of their state and I say periodically shared the document with the public I was the commissioner in. I was privileged to be a part of an effort where we developed in exhibit with I'm an aim, inspiration, proclamation and also a speech that doctor gave on that anniversary of the preliminary emancipation proclamation, and we built an exhibit for kids, I'm with the two documents and took it all around the state, and it was during the time at the lincoln movie was coming out, and there is a lot of interest in when we had thousands of people in thousands of students. from schools all over the state come to see this exhibiting come to see the document, and you can really see people, appreciation for lincoln and they

enthusiasm, just just to stand in the same spaces as this document. So I don't know if this is the case. Now a nice when I was studying you know, k through twelve american history. This was in the late nineteen eighties early nineties. and ease, and this whole idea that there was a preliminary emancipation proclamation and that there was a process of setting legal foundations in order to abolish the institution of slavery. That was skipped completely over and it will. It seemed more like the emancipation proclamation, just kind of appeared out of hull cloth and, and then the slaves were free and that its that's not at all. What happened. Why do you think so much of that process is omitted from so many

strict lessons about the civil war and the abolition of slavery. Well, you know, I think, as ever country- and you know we so celebrate lincoln, like you see the notion of of lincoln as the emancipator, which is true and right, but This also nuance behind that, and you know what things. I tried to do when I type in high school history of high school civic was the china? Have students get a sense of the complexity of politics throughout our history is the great things about the hampton musical is having its given generation of americans a better understanding that these things here is in history on just two dimensional characters that here in our currency that their complicated people operating

complicated times making political judgment making very strategic decisions and you know, I perspective. It makes lincoln, even more heroic because as you understand that he had to have a carefully, illegal strategy, a carefully pilot, political strategy too, publish emancipation and and ultimately to win civil war Things about some of the recent but study on Lyndon Johnson and the path to the seller, act and the voting rights act. These important achievements are the product, not of sudden inspiration, but rather careful

execution by very capable partnership and Sometimes the word politician is put in a negative light, but Abraham lincoln was a very, very capable politician. So before we get to the end of our me, we're going to stop for one more brief word from a sponsor an after. We hear from that sponsor. We are going to talk about why this particular document is so personally important to secretary king. This episode is brought to you by I and love and view. Is your pack, your best friend, one of a kind plus one lesson. One of our cats is an old gentleman and every night when I go to bed, he claims upon my chest

said he puts his face up against mine and he purrs me to sleep. It's amazing and his. What are those bonds that you just can ever replicate? If you feel that kind of love you feed this kind of love, I and loving you is sharing the love with all the food and treats are dogs and cats would make for themselves me now if they could, in partnership with their own patsy and a holistic veterinary, am I in love, and you creates a variety of meals and snacks made with quality meat and vegetables that contain zero, fillers, preservatives or artificial junk, nothing. Weird, as they say, we know you're not going to taste the food, your pet is so it's all about what you can see and smell. That's why we say it's the taste. They'll go nuts for food, that's fun to eat and gives their body feel good nutrition. You can get I in love and you pet,

good for both cats and dogs in stores nationwide and online. At I, l Y pet dot com find the full assortment of. I am loving you dog and cat food or online at amazon, dot com and it I l Y pet dot com and use the code history. Twenty five for twenty five percent off the products are also available in stores nationwide, including albertsons, walmart, publix and sprouts markets, eu this week on they resembled. Does America John? There was visits miami to find out how this sitting became a mecca for cubans leaving their homeland. Since the cuban revolution, cubans have been flocking to miami anyway, they could boats. Planes and wraps little about it. is filled with crazy amounts of lad next everything, but the best part is the people. Like me.

Download does america all new episode Sunday April, twenty third at ten p m eastern on MSNBC and streaming anti got this episode has brought you buy, discover at the end of your first year. Discover credit cards automatically double all the cash back. You ve earned that's right. Everything you earned doubled all the cash back from eating it. Your favorite soup, dumpling restaurant, doubled all the cash back from that trip where you sort of learned to snowboard also doubled and the best part you don't have to do anything ridiculous to get it nope discovered. Does it automatically seriously, though, see terms and check it out for yourself at discovered outcome? Slash match, So, let's get to the end of the interview secretary king is going to talk about but documents personal importance to him and as also how it fits into the greater arc of progress toward racial equality in the united states.

so every person I spoke with our arranging this interview with you talked about this document being really important eu. So what does this documents civically mean to you, and why is wise the preliminary emancipation proclamation in particular that has so captivated you I think, for me it is a reflection of both The ways in which the united states has fallen short of that and founding values. You know that that We have to acknowledge that the united states began very much with the institution of slavery as fundamental to how the country, where and there was a real tension between the institution of slavery and the promise of the day

duration of independence in and then and the notion, the notion that all men are created equal and so there was this gap and We all, as americans, need to appreciate that complexity of our history around issues of race at the same time, document also illustrates in some of the present often talked about that the trajectory of america is towards greater equality. Greater opportune me over time and so this period, the civil war and reconstruction are really a second birth of the united states. You know when you look at the thirteenth fourteenth and fifteenth amendments which were products of the civil war and reconstruction and they expanded the definition,

I american apply in american democracy, and this document was very much a part of that journey. Then the last pieces, the sack It is also about complexity of government. The importance of leaders bring out how to bring the public along on things, are hard the importance of leaders having a good political strategy, a good legal strategy as well as moral, higher purpose and lincoln, combined all of those things, and you see that very much in this document and

and the eventual january emancipation proclamation january. Eighteen sixty three! So is there anything else about this document or it's history that you really think that listeners to our show should know, and you know I I the one thing I would say just as being as a teacher, I just think there's so much power in in engaging with primary source documents, and it's one thing to read a you know a textbook and what the textbook might say, but it's another m to delve into a historical document and really What the author was trying to accomplish the choices the author made you can imagine, our full unit comprised of this plenum emancipation proclamation, the emancipation proclamation of january, sixty three, the getting

work address a the second inaugural address, the thirteenth fourteenth fifteenth amendments. You know just study through those powerful historical texts and it can be a way to inspire students both about a literacy and about social studies. It also can be a way to help students see I'm the nuances in our history. Thank you. So much taking the time to speak with us today was a pleasure to have your michel varying from one to talk with you and thanks for what you do

I'm making sure folks are are learning about our history that much for joining us on this saturday, since this episode is out of the archive, if you heard an email address or a facebook, you rl or something similar over the course of the show that could be obsolete. Now, our current email address is history. Podcast at I heart, radio, dot, com, r old, how stuff works, email address no longer works, and you can find us all over social media at missed in history and we subscribe to our shadow on apple podcast, google podcast, the iheart radio app, and wherever else he listened, the fog casts stop you miss than history classes of production, my heart radio, for more five cap for my heart radio method by her radio, cabin manhattans or wherever you listen to your favorite joe. Don't you

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