This 2017 episode covers Tudor's clever plan: In cold weather, he would harvest ice for cheap, and then sell it all around the world when it was hot.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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happy Saturday today is the birthday of Frederick Studer who was born on this day in one thousand seven hundred and eighty three, so we thought we would bring our episode on him back as today's Saturday class
tutor, remain at stick invents, but world that I use was a basic necessity and that transformed from
then New England, upon water into something that he could fell
all over the World Bank, where this episode came out weird,
several listeners that they wished. They ve known ahead of time that this ice was not exactly clean, which is going to come up toward the end of the episode.
so now. You know also at some point in this episode. We say: nineteen, twenty six when we mean eighteen, twenty six, we're hoping the meaning is clear from contacts numbers of the things we most often club GAD, somehow just turning any numbers into a nineteen cabins. Astonishingly, often in the studio, this episode came out August. Sixteen, not nineteen, seventeen, but twenty seventeen so
joy welcome to stuff you missed in history class, a production,
of Iheart Radio and welcomes the tag cast. Tracy me well said I'm hardly from most
The profiles of Frederick tutor that are loading around the web. Some of his story like this and that
we maintain century. He noticed that one thing Massachusetts had a lot of in the winter time was ice, and so he hatched a clever,
plan that in cold weather he would harvest that ice for really cheap, and then he
sell it all around the world and it was hot single handedly. Turning I
into a commodity and becoming vastly wealthy in that process.
as so often happens with our show, it is way more complicated than that, beginning with the fact that it was not.
Even his idea. In the first place, like
I saw articles
A lot of I mean generalist, publications, mainstream stuff, but all repeating the idea that this was his idea, but it wasn't
he also didn't do it alone. He had a lot of help from things like tax incentives and economic systems that ultimately skid things in his financial favour. So we are going to look at that more account
located story than is often in the way.
Paid to write up today. Yeah, he really don't I mean I haven't had not really
What about him? But he really does usually get lauded as like. This really insightful idea. Man who
That is why I am certain ran with it. Wasn t an entrepreneur in its like, oh yeah. Apart from that we're gonna talk about some other issues, so
Drug Tudor was from a prominent Boston family, his father William, had gone to Harvard had studied
law under John Adams and had been in George
Washington's continental army during the revolutionary war, including serving as its judge, advocate and after marrying Fredericks,
other Delia Jarvis in seventeen. Seventy eight he left the army.
Set up a law office, and he would also go on to serve in the Massachusetts Legislature
as secretary of the Commonwealth Willie,
Delia had six surviving children between one thousand seven hundred and seventy nine and one thousand seven hundred and ninety one and Frederick was born on September. Fourth, one thousand seven hundred and eighty three their family was comfortable, but it was
really until seventeen. Ninety six, when Williams Father died that they became truly wealthy, William and
Here it is in a state that was worth about forty thousand dollars, which was a lot of money at the time I didn't try to translate them into. Did it. Today's dollar
because that is always its tricky and its there's. Never really a wonder one way to do it, there's really nice,
It's really like throwing just the larboard at some dollar signs and landing on
something it's. It was a lot of money, though AMS, but that point he retired from law and became age,
two men of leisure. That's the dream
of leisure, while also being in the state legislature and serve big, didn't work.
Time job anymore. Yet
tutors were also an active part of Boston Society and Delia, was so charming and charismatic that she was something of a local celebrity. Although
the word, would not be coined until eighteen. Sixty the tutor family was part of the Boston Upper Class, known as the Boston Brahmins. Does co opting the word from the highest rank of the caste system in India, yet to be clear that word,
Gimme a far longer than eighteen sixty, but it was an eighteen sixty that people started applying it
Influential rich people in Boston for the most part
Frederick, siblings, started off following the path that would have been expected of the children of such a family. His brothers
Junior, John and Henry all went to Harvard
sisters, Emma Delia, married, a wealthy landowner and a prominent navy officer respectively. Although dealing
didn't marry until the age of twenty six and that marriage was rocky and ultimately ended at a messy divorce, which could have been its own pocket.
lot of drama and possibly espionage, nice
Drake, though, was having none of his family's expectations at
teen, while his parents were on a european tour that they could finally afford to take, he left school
and he apprenticed himself at a store
brother, William, who graduated from Harvard that same year, thought this was an absolute disgrace Frederick. On the other hand,
Harvard was for lay about something he would confirm for himself. A few years later, when he
that is another brother there and found his roommate Washington, Alston, art stuff all over the room.
Side. No Washington often was an influential romantically. Painter fifties studied at the
the Academy of ART and Alston Massachusetts, which is a neighborhood, is name
after him. I would not really call him
lay about ripped from Trent, Frederick, tutors perspective, lazy
yeah Fredericks whole argument.
I'm leaving school was that this apprenticeship was going to afford him a much better education, but it didn't stick with it forever
long and with his parents still out of the country he went to the families country. A state of rock wood, which is northeast of Boston in spite of this whole are
You mean about Harvard being for idlers. He spent the next few years somewhat lazily. He did do some work on the farm at rockwork, but
Not particularly strenuously and more of it was about
experimenting with agricultural techniques, then about putting a serious effort into making productive. He also hunt
and read and dabbled in various investments in aid
no one when he was seventeen Frederick, accompanied his brother, John on a trip to Cuba, John had been advised
to go recover. Someplace warm following a serious me injury and since Fredericks business deal
had included trading molasses and cigars out of Havana. The tutors already had some contacts there, but Johns condition.
didn't improve and soon they were back in the United States. They crossed paths with there
other and brother, William, near Philadelphia, which is where
died on January, twenty eighth of eighteen, o two and by that point Frederick,
William, had already gone back home back in Boston, Frederick, started working in the offices of major William, be Sullivan. He wasn't exactly working for
the major it was more like Sullivan's office was his home base where he took
salary and invested in whatever seemed like it might turn a profit still not with any particular dedication, and once he turned twenty one. Fredericks father set him up with a business of his own, where at first he kept doing the same basic thing: investing and trading in various odds and ends
Frederick finally found something to take seriously in the summer of eighteen, o five, not going after his
stir Emma's wedding to Robert Hallowell gardener. The family was at a party
would enjoying drinks that we're chilled with ice that had been cut from their pond the previous winter and then stored in the ice house for the summer Fredericks brother will
I'm casually remarked that people in the West Indies would probably love such a luxury. This was not a serious
treatment at all. The very idea was absurd. Cutting ice
winter and storing it in an ice house for the summer was common for New England. Families of means an societies with access to ice have been storing it for later use. Since antiquity,
but loading ice onto a ship and sending it thousands of miles away and to the tropics was a ludicrous idea. Not only did it seems,
like the ice, would just melt on the way but pirates private tears and the navies of multiple nations
we're variously at war with each other all had ships in the waters in the Caribbean, the island's themselves,
we are also seeing their share of unrest. Slave uprisings were an ongoing occurrence and recent
Here's had seen the second Maroon WAR in Jamaica, as well as the haitian revolution, but Frederick Tudor last arms. You, his brow,
There is off hand, not serious comment as his next big venture.
long with claiming that it was his own idea
later on his insistence that here
and not William had thought up. The whole thing would lean to it,
severe falling out with Robert Gardener, who basically told the truth,
somebody asked him about it, Frederick, never
gave him, even though Robert and William Junior both insisted that it just didn't matter who had thought of it. First, since Frederick was the person who actually made it happen and wondering
into the details of how Frederick started to build an ice business, but first you're gonna pause for a moment and have a sponsor break. This episode is brought to you.
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On August, first, nineteen o five Frederick tutor began documenting his ideas for exporting ice and a newly purchased journal that he would later dubbed the ICE House diary. Even though he were
used to acknowledge that the idea had first been his brother Williams. He pulled William into the scheme, along with their cousin, James, Savage, Frederick and James or each twins.
One at the time and William was twenty six frederick
sent William and James to the Caribbean, to set a business relationships, oversee the building of ice houses and generally just handled the caribbean end of the business
This included talking to the government on each island and trying to get an exclusive licence to distribute. It was deeply important to Frederick that he not only
the right to sell the ice, but then he also,
have a monopoly on it. They began in the French
territory of Martinique once William and Jane.
Arrived there, they did secure and exclusive licence to sell ice as planned
They also noted a couple of good locations for ice houses and compiled a list of prominent people who should get a free sable once the ice actually got. There
but not long at all. After they arrive James got yellow fever. He spent weeks recur.
Ring during which time William went on ahead to other islands, to try to make similar arrangements there, Frederick followed behind them departing for Martinique on February thirteenth, eighteen, oh said
you couldn't find anyone willing to ship the ice, so he bought a brig called the favorite for four thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars, and he modified it with a wooden ceiling to separate the ice in the hold from the hot upper deck. When Frederick arrived on March. Fifth, his cargo of ice, which have been insulated,
Wood shavings was surprisingly intact, but he was not pleased at all with the arrangements that William and James had made since they'd marked some sites for an eight ice house, but they had not. Actually,
built wine. There was nowhere to unload the products of Frederick had to get permission to sell it directly off of the ship, and even though he did Celso mice the people who buy
some of whom had never seen anything frozen, didn't really know what to do with it. In a letter to Robert Gardner, Frederick, wrote quote their methods of keeping it are laughable to be sure one care
it through the street to his house in the sun. Noonday puts it in a plate before his door and then complains that ill foam, another puts it in a tub of water. A third, by way of climax, puts his insult you. He did eventually print up some handbills to give
who instructions about what to do, but his instructions on the handbills. Wouldn't have been all that helpful. They were basically like rapid in a blanket
well. I am I like how he's there's like I concede to the whole thing right, you don't
what to do with eyes. Now we ve never seen it
Frederick last, between three thousand and four thousand dollars on this first attempt and
placed all of the blame on William and James. It did not
to him that James had been critically ill for weeks, he hadn't been able so even leave his lodgings for a long time, or that
We have had secured an exclusive import licence in multiple other caribbean nations, even as Frederick was
failing home William was on the way to Europe to try to get a general licence from the nations of Britain and France to sell on their caribbean colonies. So he would not have to negotiate
every single island individually. None of that compared to the fact that they didn't build a nice house, so Frederick had nowhere to put the ice he he he put all the blame on his brother and cousin, Frederick tried again in eighty
seven, this time having ice houses ready before the ice arrived and tinkering with his methods of insulating and securing the cargo. He was more successful this time than one thousand eight hundred and six, but he couldn't try again in one thousand, eight hundred and eight because of the napoleonic wars. The embargo act of one thousand eight hundred and seven drafted in response to the wars closed all US ports to export shipping.
basically trying to stay out of the wars themselves, while also retaliating against the fact that their ships are being harassed in transit. So, with exports completely closed off, Frederick had to spend a couple of years biting his time at risk.
We are trying to make ends, meet and experimenting with different ice house designs of different methods of insulating them. In the cargo, taking really
meticulous measurements of how these different designs and insulators affected, how quickly the ice melted times or hired for most of the tutors around this time, because Frederick
Father also lost most of his money on a failed land speculation. He wasn't able to.
You're his finances before his death in eighteen nineteen.
The embargo ACT of one thousand eight hundred and seven was repealed in one thousand, eight hundred and nine, and by one thousand eight hundred and ten Frederick, was ready to try again, though he had to borrow money to finance the trip. The one thousand eight hundred and ten voyage was his most
affordable to that point, and he secured a six year agreement, giving him exclusive control of the cuban ice market by when
tried to build on this success and eighteen eleven things once again became shaky fredericks. First shipment of ice to Jamaica, sank off port royal.
an agent managing his operation in Havana swindled him. Turning over, only a thousand dollars of what was supposed to be a nine thousand dollar profit with these things
combined. He lost almost all of his one thousand eight hundred and eleven profits and consequently was arrested and sent to debtors prison on March, ninth of one thousand, eight hundred and twelve once he got out
prison. The United States and Britain went to war in the war of one thousand, eight hundred and twelve, once again disrupting exports from the United States and putting yet another stop to Frederick's ice business. At this point, this threat of
back to prison loomed Fredericks for
shipment of ice after the war left Boston on November First eighteen, fifteen and Frederick himself was on the boat. Having been quote,
pursued by sheriffs to the very wharf.
Slowly but surely have ice. Business started to grow over the next few years and Boston had a number of advantages. As the location of his headquarters, these advantages became more
important as a business got bigger, numerous ponds and the area provided the product for pretty cheap, including fresh pond spy part.
Jamaica. Pond and even Walden Pond, where he would go on to bother Henry David, throw by harvesting ice there in eighteen. Forty six of the nature of the shipping trade through Boston also meant that once he had proved it could be done. He could move his product at a lower cost ships sailing too
tropics from Boston to retrieve goods such as sugar were often empty, with holds full of rocks as Ballast Frederick filled these otherwise empty ships with ice, replacing rocks with cell
cargo and the ships owners glad it was no longer a wasted. Trip gave him a discount. The fact that he was mostly
things like wood shavings and sawdust, which were waste by products of the lumber?
story. Also men think even the things that you are using to keep keep things frozen in transit that was free or cheap. Also in eighteen, sixteen he built an ice house in China
Stem South Carolina when we started selling his eyes for him. There, an ice house in Savannah Georgia soon followed, and is the business groups,
in addition to your securing licences and building ice houses. Frederick was selling people the idea that they needed ice. One of his eighteen
team diary entries describes how he would start with the bars here's a court
It became necessary to establish with one of the most conspicuous barkeepers a jar and give him his eyes were a year. The object is to make the whole population use cold drinks instead of warm or tepid, and it will be affected in the course of three years. A single currency
he was barkeeper having one of the jars and selling steadily his liquors all cold, without an increase in price, render it absolute
necessary that the others come to it or lose their customers. They are compelled to do what
put in no other way be induced to undertake ice really had been considered a luxury. Until this point,
but Fredericks, whole model relied on it being thought of as a basic necessity and on tepid or warmed.
which is being considered undrinkable. He remarked that he knew his business in Charleston was successful once he saw enslaved people with cold drinks
We should note here that, although slavery was effectively abolished in Massachusetts, the year that Frederick was born his business, which he created from scratch
It was built on selling ice to slave states and two caribbean and eventually south american colonies and nations, whose economies wrought relied heavily
and slave labour for ex
but the Emancipation proclamation was issued the year before he died and Britain and France both abolished slavery in there,
colonies during his lifetime. But this was long after he started trading with some of those Karla colonies. Slave
he wasn't abolished in Cuba or Brazil until long after his death in Tracy.
the research on this one and she didn't find evidence that he had directly enslaved anyone, although
there is a troubling account of an agent from
the bringing him a quote servant as a gift, but I think
doubly likely that at least some of the people unloading ice at southern and caribbean ports and working for the year round, agents and ice housekeepers living Leir words
lived in a lot of Fredericks customers would have been buying his eyes with profits that came from slave labour. It's a good exam
Full of how industries in the United States were complicit in slavery. Even when founded and run from states were slavery had long been abolished. Some of the thing
He was investing in before he started this ice business
similarly were being produced using and slave labour, like has his molasses,
trades re molasses was made from sugar that was formed on plantations that used and slave labour. I found it
strange thing: that
ray row of the accounts that I looked at about both Frederick tutor in the ice trade. In general, really got into the fact that he created
Then industry selling stuff too, in slavery, like that is
where the money was coming from, so to get back to his basic story.
although he was selling lots of ice and eighteen teens
He was not breaking even because he still had so many debts to pay, and we will talk about how he finally started to break even briefly after another quick sponsor break.
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even though Fredericks Brother, William, was really a lot more interested. In being a writer, we published several books in his lifetime. He was one of the co founders of the
often Athenaeum, which is a membership library that still exists in Boston, William,
money to join Fredericks ICE House business and eighteen twenty. He was
and who manage the introduction of Fredericks ICE into New Orleans, which would become his biggest market in the deep south in eighteen, twenty one
Frederick finally managed to get ahead of his debts, and it seems as though the iceberg
I would just grow from there, but that year, Frederick had a nervous collapse. He had been working himself to exhaustion, trying to make the ice business lucrative enough to pay off his
that's everything, was compounded by his generally weak health and the fact that he'd had both yellow
However, an malaria, along with other ailments, while he was in the tropics, he did recur,
though, and by nineteen twenty six. The ice business had gotten so big, but he brought on Nathaniel J Wyatt to supervise and direct the harvesting side of it. Why it introduced several
improvements, including a horse drawn ice cutter that he had invented the price
year, previously ice had been cut by hand, which meant that the blocks were uneven. They were harder to insulate and they were prone to shifting and transit, but why it's cut
scored the ice in a perfect checkerboard which allowed crews to cut the blacks into very regular tightly. Spectable blocks that left very little space for air or for shifting and also let them filled
it's a lot more full in January of eighteen, twenty nine. Why up also suggested a method of making the blocks thicker? Basically cutter
She device sliding it under solid ice to make a double layer and then cut
around the stack to allow it to float. While we freezing this, let them make blocks of ice up to twenty inches thick. When previously, they had considered themselves lucky for a naturally frozen layer of nine to twelve inches,
so you're, starting to do financially really well and then to events massively changed Fredericks life in eighteen, thirty, three, when he was forty nine, he stopped
making massive investments into coffee futures and he also met you phemius fellow who was aged nineteen,
Tudor was immediately smitten with her and they were quickly engaged, but he kept it.
and the wedding secret from his family, who he was increasingly estranged from there, was a lad of,
drama in pettiness, Tudor family. If, if you read accounts that
get into his family dynamics, it's real,
Lee his his,
or other alarm Robert. How old gardener that comes off the best of all of them,
so by this point he was not really getting along and he did not tell them that he was getting married, but they got married on January fifth of eighteen, thirty four and they would go on to have six children,
the coffee speculation, on the other hand, would not be nearly so productive coffee prices collapsed and he lost about two
and fifty thousand dollars of his investors money. He convinced his creditors
to allow him to continue his ice business unhindered, committing to pay at least the interest back every year and estimating that it would take about six years to pay off
the sale of ice to India is what ultimately allowed him to pay off this that he had already play
to expand into India with a couple of business partners even before he realized how bad his financial situate situation was because of this whole coffee situation. In spite of the fact that it was a four month,
Fourteen thousand mile, that's twenty two thousand kilometers journey to India that involved crossing the equator twice. It turned out to be his most lucrative destination. By far I feel like if he had just invested in coffee after I had been born, he would have been far better. Yes sure I mean I have a many many cups a day habit, so I could have kept.
Thanks to the British EAST India Company. India was home to a lot of british people and Anglo Indians and among this population it wasn't.
audibly fashionable to complain about how hard it was and to describe the Indian Sub continent as the most
punishing we miserable hot place on earth and all that
The British had adopted a number of local methods for dealing with the heat, including using saltpetre infused water to chill bottles of wine,
Many of these ways of coping were very time and labour intensive o a lot of more affluent households actually had a person whose Shaw
it was to use this saltpeter infused water to cool things and like that person's job is as important as the cook. Ah, it took a lot of work, but in addition to two dedicating people,
filling stuff. India also did have its own sources of ice. One was iceberg.
in from around the Himalayas to further south in the sub continent
and the other was a novel way of manufacturing it, people would cut pits into the ground and then fill the pits with straw, and then please
shallow earthenware dishes onto them filled with a couple of inches of water,
the water seeped through the earthen, where a vessel that acted as an adapted of cooler which let the water freeze, even if the air temperature wasn't quite to the freezing point. Yet some cool science at work right, but
method didn't yield much ice, and some of it was more like slush, so the british pound.
Relation was incredibly ear for a steady supply of tons of ice. At a time, the british population of Calcutta
raised money for ice houses under the under
demanding that some of the ice stored there would be reserved for medical use
In years, when the ice harvest was poor or ships were lost in transit, the ice in India was strictly rationed and you had to have a doctor's note to get more muscle and actually the first doctors no
It is an important role in the story. When William was trying to negotiate a licence with the british government to sound the british colonies, they thought that this idea was so far fetched that it must just be a front for smuggling.
so he had to get a note, Thermo Doktor, explaining how ice could be beneficial in in caribbean colonies. So.
Tutors. First ice delivery to India arrived in Kolkata on September, sixth, eighteen thirty, three and intense british demand
for it made it an immediate success. It was not
just the demand for ice that made the anglo british market so lucrative. The British EAST India accompanies terms were very favourable for Frederick tutor. He got a lot of exam
friends and eggs and incentives that made India more profitable than any other market
there soon. He was expanding into other indian cities as well in eighteen, thirty, four Frederick also
again. Shipping ice to rio- and this was coincidentally, where his brother, William had died. William had left the business after being appointed to U S, counsel in Peru and eight.
Twenty four and he was appointed charged affair for Brazil in eighteen, twenty seven, he died there of an infection on March. Ninth one thousand eight hundred and thirty
oh Frederick, babbled in plenty of other aside investments inside businesses over the course of his life, nothing was ever nearly as successful as the ice. Trade and
is doing so much business through exports that he was mere
The unaffected by the panic of eighteen, thirty seven or by the start of the civil war completely stopping his shipping to southern ports and that as a side note, woods
Some of the development of artificial refrigeration technologies, as the south had come to rely on these ice exports that they could no longer get because they
are at war with the north, the they needed there Ain tea. We love it miss out Tudor paid off the last of his coffee debts in eighteen, forty nine. He was sixty five at the time. It has actually taken him fourteen years
do it during which time he paid about fourteen thousand dollars worth of interest. He continued
be heavily involved in the ice trade until very late in his life and
Actually, a lot of the New England ice harvesting moved north into main. The harbor
things season was longer. An ice could be harvested directly from the Cannabich River and then loaded directly onto a ship rather than having to transport it from all these ponds over land to the harbour in Boston. Also, the ice in Massachusetts toward them of his life was becoming a,
dirtier of the land around the ponds was more developed and, as the horses used draw, the ice plows left there.
behind by one thousand. Eight hundred and fifty six ice companies in New England were sending one hundred and fifty thousand tons of ice to forty three nations and similar businesses had sprung up in other cold weather parts of the country as well.
Although Frederick, had continually sought monopolies and did occasionally managed to secure them. They didn't
only last for long. Competition with other ice exporters increased over the course of his life, especially when I tell you and traders who are much closer to India than Boston was began. Transporting alpine ice and his New York began to overtake Boston in terms of overall shipping must
the ice trade head move their Frederick Tudor died on February. Sixth, one thousand eight hundred and sixty four at the age of eighty, and he was by then vastly wealthy, both from the actual profits of the ice.
aid, but also really, importantly, from the land value of all this property that he had bought decades before to build ice houses on his way.
ran the business after his death, changing her
to fend mode tutor in eighteen, sixty seven, possibly don't actually know her motivations for sure, but the speculation is
so that correspondence in the ice trade would assume that she was a man.
He also Emily continuing pile of things that may make us wonder whether Frederick was there much funds
round. She went through in annotated all of his journals from the early years of their marriage. Often saying things happen in a
a different way than were written down in the journals and alleging that he
open sharing, quote the marriage privileges with a woman he had lived on and off with, since one thousand eight hundred and twenty four, I don't know who that woman was or Flash may have been. Since this is an allegation, we have nothing but Venmo tutors word at that point and during the window of
when tutor was the ice king, though the ice trade was changing the world. The first home refrigerators were powered by huge blocks of ice and the name icebox. They didn't just help peoples,
if money, by keeping their food longer without spoiling, though they also improved public health, without the ability to keep food cold pathogens multiplied in warmer, whether leading to acute diarrhoea known as summer complaint, which could be fatal. Aside from that, just as examples hospitals use ice to cool patience, you
hi fevers fishing vessels were able to stay at sea longer because they could keep their catches on ice and perishable feuds could be shipped much farther away. So this change the types of food that people were able to eat. Tropical fruits could also be shipped much farther packed and ice that had first been shipped to that.
Topics to pick it up, the British Royal Navy even used ice to cool there, Gunter its and, of course, the ads.
Of artificial refrigeration and ice making once again changed everything. Mechanical refrigerators were in development by the eighteen. Seventy ease and
refrigerators were becoming ubiquitous by the nineteen twenties. Once manufactured ice became a possibility, most folk stopped wanting to use frozen, pod water that could potentially have horse group and, of course, the ice trade. Much as was the case with butter versus margarine. The ice trade tried to make up a lot of arguments about how artificial
I was bad and chemical. You should want this naturally fresh pond water, that horses have been pooping in hand onto her ivy. We still right. There are variations of that that are not so it's legal arguments as Mark
schemes. Rightly I want this water fresh from a stream, not one that's been processed
I don't think it maybe he's making the case for forest group. Water have hope one of his
students donated all of his papers and all the family papers too big
library at Harvard Business School, and I don't want to go down there and poor through them and try to figure out like did he think about what he was doing regarding establishing a business that, for so long was
is exclusively trading to people that were making all their money off of slavery. Like I hear,
to have known right now,
slavery being wrong, especially since he was literally harvesting ice from where Henry David threat was hanging out. The row is a staunch apple
yeah. But I couldn't find
Anybody, but had looked into that at all
most of the sources are really candid about the fact that he was selling to you know in a british Colonial India, which has its own set of
its use and human rights.
its concerns and rights of that, but I didn't find
Annie. Anyone really looking into the part where he created a trade that was so reliant on slavery for so long. I would be willing to wager- and this is a bad thing compelling ever be proven out unless we somehow managed to reanimate long decease people- I would bet he didn't even really think about it. I add that, as my sad
suspicion. I suspect he was like. I just want to sell my eyes. I don't care who you are not going back to prison man.
I do know that there is a letter that
in some way related to slavery, and to that that movement rabble is abolition.
That's listed in the finding guide of the tutor family papers at Harvard, but I'd like I don't know what that letter is is about Ray. I feel like its. We have gotten comments before on social media. About
how, like the the money related to slavery, was all the southern money and that's so false. And to me this is a really good example,
how a northern industry could really be heavily connected to slavery. Even if it was
using and slave labour or directly enslaving. Anyone know out of that, as I was like
I really was I don't know. I should not have been astonished, but I was, and as well as looking around trying to figure out if there was anything that anybody had really put together about this, and I kept finding artist
where the only reference to slavery at all was the caption of a photo of some ice being unloaded by enslaved people in a creamy import now psychosis, my unsatisfactory experience,
We are in an episode. I chose because I thought it was going to be more fine than talking about eugenics, nothing's ever
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Transcript generated on 2021-09-05.