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welcome to blow your mind production of my heart radio reopens stuff. To blow your mind, my name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe Mccormick, and here we are with part three of tears. If we had an interruption between ports, two and three. But but here we are to conclude the series: that's right so it s with their past episodes where we ve kind of test. We ve done per one in part two and then a part three, and maybe more he's gonna, there's gonna be a lot of catching up on things that we will discuss a little bit on previous episodes. There's gonna be some new stuff. Some Nothing is disorganized, but it and be disturbed What are you kidding around its more or its more organic gets like we we're? We are exploring in reporting back

in real time: so on the island. one area wanted to start with. I just wanted to share this little bit that I read in a crying from two thousand and one by Nikko Van Harrington and in it the author here is just sharing out the couple tidbits about how ancient societies thought about tears quote In antique science, it was believed that tears came from the heart Egyptians about fifteen hundred BC. The brain and this they tribute to hypocrisy span the fifth and for centuries see or glance at the puncture lachrymose retributive galen in the south. Century see. However, after school send described the tier ducks and the main locker gland in sixteen sixty two. It was accepted. The tears united there, the other a ton of great beliefs from the ancient world about the anatomical origins of tears, ideas about like when you

feeling a swelling of emotion. That makes the bunch of vapours condense in your heart and then they rise, I'm here your head and after leak out through your eyes, that's a good one, but I particularly like the idea of Galen that the tears come from the puncture in the eyelids. These little holes, which are actually the holes through which tears drain out of the eyes, because this is the same misconception that I had before I started reading about the anatomy of the eye, and the here, Sir remember in part one. We talked about how the the tears are actually secreted but the Lachrymal gland, which is above the ice, would have above the island to the outside drain away through these punk to eventually and two: Cromwell Sack in the in the tea reduction the nasal cavity through threats that those are looking on the inside of the eyes, and Apparently I haven't tried to look in my own eyes, but I have seen

measures of this. Apparently, you can actually see your own pumped lacquer malice, the little holes in your eyelids the tears drain away through. If you look really close, I believe I've I've spotted mind before area by but look at them and thinking this is where the tears come from its like. If you were to look at a bathtub say, are this hole in the bottom? This is Which the waters rise and fill the tub for my bath random, but of course that is how you're feeling you're bathtub something is wrong, oh really, visiting our theme of the deer ducks being the sewer of the eye. Yeah now. As far as tears emerging from the brain, I really love that idea to cause it's because on one hand, it is kind of cool in a sense you're talking about emotional tiers, especially bites the idea that, like tears, are in some level like brain juice, I think that's what

the special we're talking about how tears are generally seen, as is a kind of pure a nation of the body, but if we were to give them, as is the leaking of when emotional brain suffer enraged, brain or whatever. You paint a different picture now, what interesting thing. We have heard back from a couple of listeners about is we ve gotten some resistance to the idea. We discussed in previous episodes that humans are the only animals that are known to cry tears as an emotional response to shed liquid out of their lachrymal glow and in response to emotions which we want to be Very clear is not the same as saying that other animals don't feel emotions and righteous that test are a particular behavioral anatomical response to emotions that appears to be present in homo sapiens. Other animal have all kinds of complex emotions that we may be couldn't even be.

To fathom they just don't particularly seem to have this response of liquid coming out of the eye As a result, and, and it turns out that this conviction that in rules must shed emotional tiers of some kind. Does to be it does seem to go pretty pretty far back with people making case reports here and there I was reading an article that I'm definitely cannot return to in this episode. I would add that was by by ad vigour. Hoots who is a dutch psychologist is a researcher on terrorists who we mentioned in the previous episodes and will come back to again and learn in bills, mom in emotion, review and twenty sixteen and they discuss the emotional terrorism in non human animals. They say that there have been reports of em penalty or fulness in horses and lions this goes back to plenty the elder in crocodiles. This goes back to alien. Who, who is a road in the second century, see I think, too,

like Shakespeare, talking about how dear can weep emotionally, of course, reports of L, hence crying emotional two years. This is something we come back to in a minute guerrillas and so forth. But despite these case reports, they They did the best systematic studies that that involved, surveys of veterinarians, zoo keepers and other professionals who work with animals on a regular basis or scientific capacity. essentially yielded no evidence at all of emotional tears in any animal species other than human. So it really does seem to be a uniquely human trade, but it fun to lookin to to attach too, as you answer the question of, why have we come to believe or or say that certain animal shed tears right so, let's start with idea of of crocodile tears. this is a fun one, because it touches on crop biology, folk belief and, of course, alligator persons in the bag in fog

I also wonder if part of it comes from western bias against non spontaneous weeping which a little bit later, and I think of touched on a previous episodes. a western bias against it in their own culture, but also how it is utilised and other cultures in tears on purpose, cannot be real tears in the end as will discuss. This does not seem to be the case. But anyway, the idea with the crocodile here is that a crocodile sheds false tears for the prey it has just killed- and this tends to something sinister about the crocodile and something duplicitous the human you're talking about community. That's what we're talking about like. Oh, that politicians shedding crocodile tears this person shedding crocodile tears, which is to say their putting on false face of emotion, their intentionally,

being emotional or even if it may be in some literal cases, they are literally shedding tears, and you doubt the authenticity of those tears yeah the idea of crocodile tears as something that sort of like called out by the peep by the writers of natural histories and regarded in some way as evil or suspect does go back further than the eye of crocodile tears as a specific case of hypocrisy there's a section about the history of the concept of crocodile tears in add vigour, whose Look why only humans weep unravelling the mysteries of tears. This is from Oxford University press. Twenty thirteen as over who does tracing this idea- and he mentions a writer, a bishop, a christian Bishop named Saint Asturias, who is running around the or four hundred who wrote that quote,

crocodiles, mourn over the human heads they devour and weep not from repentance, but because heads have no edible flash as like that? That's not quite yet to the idea of hypocrisy see, but it is saying something about like that. How could I was so greedy and so cruel that either when it's gotta human head in its mouth. It's not satisfied is just like this is not good enough meet. This is just so depressing. This head is garbage. In terms of of actually observing crocodiles and the eyes of the crocodiles, so yes I cannot do- have non emotional tears because they do have to be, their eyes, lubricated apparently they ve been out of the water. For a spell these tears, maybe more noticeable and may in maiden in may be observed, while the animal is feeding. If it is then on feeding or messing around with up with some sort of a carcass on the shore.

looking around and I two thousand six study at the University of Florida founded, does seem to be something to these observations. but in the end it member that I mean, then people may have observed crocodiles appearing to shed tears, that clear are not emotional teachers, but it may be due to warm air force through the sinuses, gearing feeding, pushing out more liquid, ok, It would just be like a to the extent that this could actually be something you would observe its just. They serve coincidental byproduct of what the animal is doing with its head, while exceeding its like. If your observing certain varieties of some of the coin is that debt swim in the end, salt, water and in their blood, lasting salt out of their face when there are here who is they do when there on the shore like that is not emotional, it's it's made. So you can also say: that's not even crying that's a step beyond but yeah. We can't take this anatomical processed and say that this is this night,

some sort of an emotional pouring that it has anything to do with. What's going on with human emotional tears, though, many years later, this did develop into the idea that that is the origin of the expression crocodile tears. Now that that the crocodile will will sort of weep false here is as a way of eliciting sympathy from a victim or like luring someone close to them and then and then it will bite them and weep wallets eating them. if it wasn't adaptive trade, I think that would be a crocodile crying and we're like, ah little body, he sad about it. Clearly we can't lash up, but you should I share the crocodiles anyway, Byron the other major animal that you sometimes see discussions about regarding their their potential tears these involve the elephant and we actually heard from at least one listen. I think more than one who wrote it

on the topic of elephants, allegedly shedding emotional tears, thing is you do see this still make the rounds on social media, and part of this is. elephants are sometimes in tough situations and they do you seem to have have. the complex emotional lives. Denying that that and have emotions and when we're looking somebody scenarios you we want elephants to be able to cry to some extent like we we knowing that they have emotions. We want, you give them human tears, and you re area accounts that make the rounds on the internet about them. Shedding emotional tears like look at this baby elephant, it's in a tough spot. It shares tears look at this mother elephant horrible happened. She is she is shedding tears. She is dead, displaying emotion and we can connect with it or again. I think this might be actually illustrative of something about the importance

of tears as a social signal between humans that we have instinct. That says, if, if an animal is experiencing real important emotions, they must be capable of shedding tears, which again is that does not follow at all. Like you know, and What could have perfectly could have stronger emotions than humans do, and just I have this behavioral response to them. Absolute like so? We are not denying elephants, complex emotional states, but we will deny them tear ducts, because that's exactly what evolution has denied them in this is where it gets really fascinating. I I I was not familiar with this or I had dinner one of these things, like maybe red in the past, and it didn't really like you know, strike a chord with me, but These are facts. Not only do they lack tiered dots, they actually lack of the plumbing associated with mammalian tier. So no glands, no doubt snow, canals nothing interesting, yeah, they retain mucus glands, but nothing else.

One theory as to why why this is the case is that they seem to have evolved through a semi aquatic past and loss your tier systems, during that time, much like modern, not pinup heads lack you're glands anterior dots are funny, so there may sort of be an aquatic ape equivalent of the the elephant. The elephants evolutionary ancestor this sort of a life more based in waiting around in the water rights. Ok, but doing the opposite of what you know. We got right out in the previous episode about the This data that here in tears, and our ability to shed emotional tears are somehow connected to suppose it. Aquatic eight passed will here is preacher. with with what seems to be at least semi aquatic past, and it lost the ability to shed tears, like other mammals, do during the transformation interesting says. So what is going on with elephant eyes? Oh get so

the elephants a thing, is you still, your eyes still need to be moist. That's that's the important thing here you can. You can't do without it, so with the elephant, glance around the I were re purposed through evolution, and provide moisture to the eye so there third eyelid gland. We talk about third eyelids before you know. This is like you have that the ILO, one and two are the ones that we have the top and bottom, but in a lot of animals have a third as well that is involved. So the third island gland was an accessory gland. Re purpose. The third Eirik land is found on other animal is well, but in the elephant it's extremely well developed to make up what for what was lost, and there are also some other tier cocktail differences with the elephant tears as well due to these chain. Just so you can. Those scientists have been able to like look at the substance of the other of the than the moisture the liquid in

elephants I am making they can see. That will be the actual chemical make up of. It is a little different from what you would find in in typical, mammalian tears. Okay, so despite their debts an anatomy. They were some kind of liquid combination of mucus and and and old, and some kind of liquid that may be on and around the eye, and that's just sort of hanging out there now, if they dont have tear ducks through which these things would be draining away. Where does the liquid go, and that is where a lot of these observations of elephant tears come from they and a blue like their crying, because the again their eyes don't have ranged, canals their eyes just fill up and then, streamed down the face? Sometimes, there's even a foam due to the accumulation of see them and mucus, and this fascinating, took as this reminds me of my sons, issues with his tier ducks. Having like that was, that was the reason is, is I his eyes would well up with tears so easily, not because he was emotional or or anything it's just. The drainage was was messed up

So he would his eyes would well with tears just by virtue of not having the drainage system in place until it was correct it with the two. Also, if it's common for elephants to have sort of liquid mucus various things rigged dripping out of their eyes as a standard feature of of what's going on with their ocular anatomy and you para that with elephants, sometimes being in situations where they appear to be experiencing, emotions probably are experiencing something that you could call emotions and you'd you pair those. Things together and you think of the elephant is weeping because of its situation, absolutely so. It's it fascinating. I love how this it others. Turns out what we think about regarding the nine tears on its head and, in course it plays into our are tendency to want to see human emotions, not only human emotions, but but human, Adam. He and other creatures

do you really want to learn more about this, I have to say that their Rachel gardener has a great post on this at why animals do the thing dot: com it's well cited and well written. I highly recommend look the utopian thine eyes to see the two magic of forced its storybook world. For then you look and see a tree. They see their wrinkled face of a wizard with arms out stretched Guy basic treasure in pebbles. They see a winding path that could lead to adventure, and they see you there fearless guide. it is fascinating or find a forest near you and start exploring discover the forest dot. Org wrote to you by the United States, boys service and the council adaption obtained from foster care as a topic, not enough people. Now

and we are here to change that. I'm equal Dinwiddie host of a new pod cast navigating adoption presented by adopt? U S, kids! Each episode brings you compelling real life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. it adopt. U S, kids dot, Org, Slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by adopt? U S, kids brought to you by the? U S: Department of Health of humans, services, administration for children and families and the council. Have you ever felt depressed about work only to have your daddy like why you're so down, so he told them. You hate your job and he said well you're, better talk yourself out of it, and then you thought I love the talk. I could supply gas and then you want a speaker my heart and started upon gassing got good at it. Then monetizing quit your boring job and told her dad thanks for the advice and it was like. Well, that's not what I meant and I don't understand what a pot cast is, but you seem happy. So that's great kiddo! Never do that. What you could at speaker, dotcom! That's s! P r e k, E R asked your dad. You actually dealt

or a will. To come back to the subject of human tears and the evolutionary explanation for why liquid comes out of our eyes when were experiencing strong emotions. Why this unique behaviour all reaction that humans have to their own emotional states into the emotional states of others. I wanted to come back to two this author of mentioned several times now. The dutch psychologist add finger hoots in one thing I wanted to start off with was so. There is a paper I said a few minutes ago as a resource for the claim about a other animals in in these systematic surveys of veterinarians and undue keepers and stuff now not showing emotional tears that same paper published an emotion review and twenty sixteen by finger, hoots and learn in bills MA that's a good paper, because they review a bunch

the different sort of findings about human terrorists in and their uniqueness, all in the same place, and that they argue that crying should be considered a unique human behaviour. That quote obeys the laws of operant conditioning and is under the influence of biological, psychological and social factors. It is not merely a reflex symptom, it is a complex behaviour that appears to have that. How the has kind of biological genetic precedent. than is strongly influenced in its expression by situational factors, both psychological and social, and they. That's some other interesting facts that sort of help solidify the question of the question were looking at here and one of these like they're, so ok, acoustical, crying that the sound a baby makes is obviously an attachment behaviour that maintains the proximity of the parent. I think this is pretty clear that this is the main function of a baby, crying that the crying of

be draws, the parent nearer to provide care, protection and feeding and kind of thing is necessary for helpless human infants, because human inference can do essentially nothing for themselves. They are, they are all there exceptionally helpless. As far as young animals go now. It's point. We know that newborn babies cannot yet shit here's, but at a certain point point tears leaking out of the EIS, become a standard part of the crying repertoire, so win win. Babies are displaying this attachment behaviour. This sad. This occurs go crying in order to summon the care of apparent. It starts in corporate in tears as part of that behavioral repertoire and then the interesting facts, is that as people get older, years could be seen to in some ways replace acoustical cry So as we age ass, we get older people tend to cry less frequent,

and when they do cry, they don't display the whose tickle wailing properties of crying as much as babies do. Instead, they just shed tears and that's an interesting. act as well. Wire terror, retained into adulthood in a way that the wailing of a baby is usually not another interest developmental fact about the role of crying is the effect of physical pain on the terrace So the authors here right. They quote until adolescence. Physical pain is a very important trigger of tears, but for adults, elderly. It no longer plays a significant role. However, feeling of loss and powerlessness seem to remain important for crying throughout the life span, so when, when children get physically hurt when their feeling physical pain, they scuff there near something. Crying is a very common response that most Lee goes away in adulthood, adults, rarely cries or result of physical pain and instead mm

contain that specifically emotional pain, feelings of loss, powerlessness or helplessness as the primary triggers of emotional tears it his interesting. I thinking about them about times that I've been hurt. physically heard as as is as an adult like the the one example that I can remember where I was heard, and I really had to choke back tears, whose win I was with my my sign of the times very young and- he was. He was looking into a cooler full of ice cream at a store in a public place. And I leaned over, to look in his well right above him and then he excitedly hopped up. Unlike did I like leaping had bought into my lower jaw like just like a child opera cut and and it really really her for sectors like you know, it's like being punched, with an opera cod and

and I like I had walk away for two seconds: they not out of the store, but just a few feet away. I felt like I felt like tears, of of of associated with the pain, but, of course there more complex situation there, because it's like you you're there with your son, public place, I'm guessing there might be some level of like, like maybe I'm trying to balance out some level. It's like my pain needs to be reviewed added to the child who It is not going to understand what happened. Does I think you'd think he'd really even picked up as much language at that point, so This is the only time I can think upwards, like I of physical pain, plus something that the provoked here yeah, and it's not that adults never cry tears in response to physical pain. It's just dramatically less frequent than it is for children tat gap. With with young children who is is everything you notes that the skin me it's. The the boat toe but then weirdly.

The thing I was found, amazing, is that it will with it wasn't like clockwork like a child would also dislike. Sometimes they would. They would slightly fall over there, in the wrong mood than the tears flow, and they need to be comforted at other times they being deploying something and they'll take a fall. That would just just lay out an adult for the rest of the day and they just pop right back up. and there they don't care, there's no emotion spots in those situations. Well, I I can't help, but immediately go to thoughts about helpless. in versus agency in those different situation, and and where the situations where, as a kid, I remember sort of like popping right back up after an injury or the times when I'm sort of like really engaged in a task, and I can continue it yeah. You know I don't feel like I've gotta stop, but when you feel like you're, hurt a way that makes you want to stop doing what you're doing that's when the tears would come on it would seem.

Bit the end and that may tie into the idea of like ok now that I'm no longer inactivation mode, but I'm in a sort of like receiving care mode? Ok, it's time to cry Campagna I need apparent. I need comfort, I need help and so on. here is a good place to come back and briefly describe a few more of the hypotheses that have been offered over the years about possible ever your explanations for emotional tears in humans in previous episode, We discussed a handful of these that were probably we. We judged on the wrong track, like the yard, the smoke from funeral pyres idea, which seem to lack a lack, a coherent mechanism for how they would become a genetic behaviour or or talking about the detox patient hypothesis, which had a number of strong arguments against it in the press episode. We at least concluded- or at least I remember saying, I'm pretty well convinced that whatever the

In truth, personal function of crying may be, and it may have some functions like that. I think I think I'm probably convinced The primary evolutionary justification for adult com, dying of emotional tears is interpersonal, is, is a social signal of some kind. That is, to have an effect on other people around. You may be to elicit caregiving from them to get them to help you maybe too relies aggression, things like that but anyway I wanted to sketch a few more of these. These hypotheses a note that What I am about to say here comes from summaries of these views that are there in that book by adventure who its why only humans weep. As So this is his take on these different hypotheses, including some of his criticisms of them. So why.

idea that this one was actually kind of interesting, even though there are pretty strong arguments against it is the idea of crying as a mucus defence. So around the year, nineteen sixty the british American anthropologist, Ashley Montague argued that tears began as a mechanism to protect against that hi duration of an infants airways during distress, vocalist Asians, and it would go some something like this. A baby need something the baby begins to scream and whale for help. It once apparent and causes a lot of rapid inhalation and exhalation through the nose and mouth, and this rapid airflow could potentially dry out the protective layers of mucus that are present in places like the nasal cavity. Now we dont, often star to appreciate our mucus, but your nasal mucus is a wonderful beautiful thing. It is a wonderful biological adaptation that is extremely important. It protects the body against tat. You know,

retaining contaminants like dust and things, but it also, very importantly, protects the body against infection that the mucous in your nose is a major first line of defence against pathogens entering the body and infecting you and under Montague hypothesis. The tears that drain into the nasal passage through the tiered ducts help keep this passage from drying out, especially dear, at times of heightened airflow like the screaming and wailing that would accompany a child's of vocal distress signals this further, backed up by the idea that tears also contain a natural enzyme called life, as I'm, which has antibacterial properties, which would seemingly per further evidence that they, the shedding of tears during distress, vocals nations, may be helping to protect the body from infection, so in sting idea, but finger hoots has several arguments against this hypothesis that that I think are worth considering

First of all, he says he will babies, don't shed tears for the first several weeks of their life, as we discussed in a previous episode at this would be at a time when the would be the most vulnerable. Another big strike against it is that we don't see a tier response in in re Two other activities, especially like exercise, they cause rap inhalation and exhalation, which could potentially dry out this mucus and sometimes does dried out. If you got you know running in the coal liquor, your Airways can very dry. Can you imagine what ten issue shoe commercials would be like? If we stick Rapid tier shedding was part of exercise. Hilarious, will I mean one thing: Nike commercials and others? Why is it that athletic shoe commercials are always so wet? I mean I understand, is true the people sweat when they exercise, but like commercials really want to show you the moisture they always shone like like beads dripping.

Of people's elbows and things. You know I'm talking about iron and they want to drive home the physical exertion and probably sexiness of glistening bodies. behind you. In a water catches, the light it's maybe it's just more interesting to shoot, looks good and slow. Yeah. I can see that, but anyway, I I think that's a pretty big strike against this hypothesis. You would kind of think that if it works like this, each other cavities that could cause drying out of the mucous membrane in the nose would also illicit tears, and it did doesn't work that way. also. Why would other mammals not have a similar adaptation? So in testing, but I think some pretty strong strikes against it. So there's another hypothesis finger hoots talks about which- The idea of crying as a sort of away for adults to temporarily become a child. This. When is it true? to a dutch ethos suggests named friends. I should have looked up how to

This are: oh, he s a might be rose, arrests, maybe, but like this. So most adult man, does seem to be born with genetically determined instincts, fuel tendencies, to react to physical markers of infancy with nurturing behaviors and with reduced aggression. Why do we have such a deep? biological reaction to things that are cute and white, is cute. This almost perfectly correspond to the characteristics of infancy. These are the things that are sometimes called Infant schema things like Having a large head. Having low lying eyes on that head having bulging cheeks. You can look for this in everything from acute cartoon, characters to stuffed animals almost anything and everything that is supposed to be you'd in some way, mimics babies or mimics inferences closely related mammal species and this

even true of like inanimate objects like em inanimate. Objects that people find cute tend to be small, and into maybe in some way look kind of helpless like a baby. This reminds me of how especially an inanimate, but I think you, this in western animation as well. There's this tendency what something's being super cute, sometimes the the eyes are made to just well with tears, like there's vibrating with moisture, very observation and- and I think that's some significant support for at least in part this idea, because it seems that there is. Obviously there are. These infant schema things that that look like babies in one way or another tinges, powerful trigger us to reduce aggression to increase care and nurturing behaviors to make us a all in one approach and take care of whatever. That thing is even if it's like a like a little like inanimate chair, that's just kind of cute and stubby in some way, powerful instinct, but

as other elements of this infant schema that are based not only on static physical appearance but in behavior. so here only directly from finger hoots as he describes. This quote: juvenile, birds and primates sometimes behave like helpless newborns, particularly in begging situations, for example a young Greece, Sparrow, with a well developed ability to fly, may in the presence of apparent helplessly shake its wing imitating the poorly coordinated wing movements of newly hatched offspring to support its begging for food, and then he also rights quote in chimpanzees, the pout face, which is the typical Russian of youngsters, when separated from their mother, can be served in older animals when they are begging

juveniles. The behave in this way receive more food and support than those that do not display such behaviour. This imitation will increase their fitness and thus has the potential to become part of the behavioral repertoire of a species even beyond its infancy. so in a given all this rose. Arrests argued that human, crying, including the shutting of liquid from the eyes, was selected. I evolution for this reason, because it made the faces of juveniles and then even adults, resemble more closely the faces of helpless new born infants and we're we're just strongly programme to react to the faces of helpless new born infants with nurturing carry behaviour such as say giving things to them or not, responding to them with aggression and so on,

This hypocrisy is crying even in adults, is a way of triggering sort of the new role cutaneous alarm in our heads to turning us into infant caregivers, even when the person crying is not actually an infant and this is summarised with with a number of different ways- that the the the moistening of the eyes with tears could if someone more closely resemble a newborn, these points include in this is from from finger. Who'd summary here quote the moisten the face which may remind us of the faces of newborns wet with amniotic fluid the UN coordinated, almost spasmodic respiration, which is similar to the initial respiratory efforts of a new born the core. spawned ends of the acoustical aspects of human. Crying to this, operation or distress calls of other animals closed eyes the wrinkled scan around the eyes, the spotted coloration of the facial skin and the open mouth, all of which are typical, crying expressions shared with newborns so

This could have some arguments against it, for example, still wooden explain why emotional tears would be unique to humans, as opposed to say, other primates, but it could be partially on the right track. No one- lightly over a couple more that he mentions. One is the idea of crying as a symbolic representation of suffering. This one is attributed to the spanish ophthalmologist one Merou Bay, though the vigour Notes that the american neuroscientist Robert Provide has offered a similar explanation and here the idea is that crying is a social signal of emotional pain that is adapted from the reflex tier response. That comes from certain types of physical pain, would have some precedent and animal behavior, because animals seem to of evolution, airily developed social signals to one another that are based on the appearance of behaviors that originally not for signalling, for example, the idea

The social signal of anger represented by beard teeth, be based on originally non communicative eating behaviors. So maybe the idea you know originally and animal that look like it is intently, like now, not a boner eating or something you don't wanna like approach that animal and try to mess with it, because you know you're getting in between it and its food. Maybe you sort of like re like play, on that instinct, by showing your teeth to another animal, even while you're not eating the saying like I am, you know, don't mess with me right now, or similarly, like add the these social. Signal of discuss two may be based on originally non communicative rejection, behaviors like vomiting or spitting out food are the bases we make that other. can see when were disgusted by something kind of look like spitting out faces or vomiting

and under this hypothesis, tears could maybe be similar. Maybe what was originally a reflexive secretion of liquid in the eyes in response to physical irritation of the eyes and of pain or irritation came to a useful signal of pain to other members of our species, whose it was useful and survival. Sense to know when somebody else was in pain and may need help, and this could become abstracted two types of pain other and physical irritation of the EIS specifically look the your children died to see the two magic of a Ford, its storybook world. For then you look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched guy basic treasure in pebbles. They see a winding path that could lead to adventure and they see you there. Fearless guide

if its path in aiding or find a forest near you and start exploring discover the forest dot. Org wrought you by the United States for Service and the council be sending him sedge anyone anywhere in the world. I can get you and it will hurt. It was a pledge to read out of James Bond in effect nation carried out with the world's most toxic chemical weapon. The victim was Kim Jong NAM. He was the first born son of North Korea's Supreme leader. He should have been they sat instead, he'd be murdered in one of the most brazen and bizarre political plots of all time join us as we investigate the potential motives, can drive and actually had several reasons for wanting to assassinate is older brother, the family back stabbing lotta clover endeavour stop about John DOE and the petty paranoia in North Korea when somebody

I'll introduce you. That challenger must be eliminated behind the most on assassination of the twenty first century: listen to brother on. I hurt radio at Apple taught gas or wherever you get your part cas. If I could be you- and you could be me for just one hour, if you could find a way to get inside each others, walk a mile in my shoes. What mile in my shoes, While I mean we ve all felt left out and for some feeling last more than a moment, can change that learn. Belonging begins with US dot org brought to you by the council. there's another, have This is the vigour hoots mentions that is attributed to a science writer named Chip Walter. Who argues that

crying, maybe a an important part of social bonding development in the history of the human species. I might be a sort of honest signal of genuine need due to what could be called a handicapping principle. Basically, the fact that you know that would make really loud noises of helplessness and risk, drawing predators near by means you really need help. honestly. I was a little fuzzy on how this mechanism was was supposed to work, but then next, when I found interesting in this ties into something we talked about, the previous episode, the hypothesis that that emotional tears in adults are an honest appeasement signal, and this is traced back to the israeli evolutionary biologist or an Hassen who argued that eight here's blur our vision and by blur our vision. They make it difficult for us to be at peak fighting fitness, and so, if it's more difficult,

do enact violence or aggression, while your eyes are full of tears. Hassen argue that terrorists are adaptive because they are an honest signal of decreased capacity for violence kind of like dog rolling on its back and showing you its belly. It's like hey, I'm I'm putting myself in a really vulnerable situation. Don't hurt me it's a kind of hard to fake, why it flag of surrender signalling, I am currently helpless and will not harm you. Please help me, or at least please don't hurt me so under this hypothesis. Tears would be adaptive because they help facilitate social trust. Now whether or not this is truly a primary factor in the evolutionary of tears, this Hassen Hassen White flag of surrender hypothesis. I do think it except on something that we were talking about earlier. That, I think, seems almost undeniable, which is the tears, are strongly strongly linked with helplessness as a condition

studies that look into in all cases like wind. Do adults actually cry these studies tend to find that the adults report the kinds of situations in which their most likely to cry are ones in some way or other, they feel helpless or feel a lack of control of courses, talked about earlier. The role of crying in infants, but acoustical, crying you vocal, crying and tearful crying is quite literally a signal of helplessness. It is because the infant is literally helpless and cannot do any for itself and is requesting that apparent come to help them So I do feel like this is probably a pretty strong factor to consider when evaluating these different hypotheses, which do you no individual ones. We just talk about, may or may not be correct, to vary degrees, but I do think that in adults, tearful, crying is very strongly linked to helplessness and probably serve some important social signal of helplessness and and

signals of helplessness could take multiple forms. They could illicit assistance and social support sent. You know I am currently helpless and need care, or they could it aggression. I am currently helpless and can't represent a threat to you. Please don't hurt me and I think this is interesting, because you can even see this in negative Actions decrying, like winner, the situations when people are the least tolerant of their people crying its Situations where you would the least tolerant of somebody being helpless right you it's when somebody is suppose to be useful and responsible and say, like the workplace. Or in the military, or something that like people would react really negatively to seeing. Somebody else burst into tears, which I mean I do have two mentioned. I think that I think that's ultimately pretty crappy I do of course allow what situation is like give if someone is is having emotional tears like this something going on the

the actual feelings of helpful, helpful helplessness or they are engaging their mirror neurons right within this with someone else's situation or press or some sort of an emotional imbalance going on there like there's something something is occurring say like Aviano, don't cry me, didn't people don't cry and the scenario there's no crying and baseball whatever the though the troll path. Today, I don't think that, doesn't it it right in situations where people are less concerned, for others well being in our just concerned with what can you do for me right now? I need you to be like useful and functional right. It's it's, people are sort of looking at you and more transaction away, and just saying like hey, I just need you to be on the ball. I don't really care what you're dealing with rice. which reminds me even older, upright citizens, Brigade sketch every prohibitionist Michel before the bucket of truth, different do remember. This from we have seen that

the idea was that if there's this bucket and if you look into the bucket of truth, you all you will confront the unmitigated truth of the universe, and, although will overwhelm you and then will be unable to stop wailing and weeping. This would occur to the characters in the scared, but then it these days these debts, where I think they were going out in public in doing this, like this uncontrolled weeping and damage and screaming, if they had looked into the bucket of truth, but in least in one of the states. It was while carrying out some other mundane task, which is always struck me as an interesting juxtaposition. I couldn't really say why perhaps this is that the idea that You are fully engaging in emotional tears. They like this. This is generally the focus of what you're doing your journaling not doing something else, you not like what mailing envelopes or whatever happens, to be the case right and I think we can pay.

we all say from experience that were usually not at our most functional and and efficient, while we're crying yeah. Unless, unless you're composing, poetry, maybe or her or a beautiful song there, so many great songs about crying- oh no I'd, say even there, like, while you're crying you're, not in composition mode. It's only reflecting upon those feelings later that you're really good at writing about them If you try to write about, if you ever tried to write about strong emotions, while your currently feeling them, I find it just doesn't work like you can't really. Theirs to say about them, while you're feeling them it's only thinking back on them later that you can talk about them three and in the best Lena. yeah, I guess it would be a blue- do tended to feed it. If you got into a good writing, though, because you would get into the flow state and then your your kind of removed, form from whatever emotional state might have proved provoked, it, at least

from the experience of those emotions and put in a place where you can that reflect on them but obviously looking into a truce back. It is a different matter. Yeah you just have to row with that point: wolden anyway to round up my thoughts about helplessness as a factor in tears. While I M we strongly convinced that helplessness as a major part of whatever would be the ultimate primary evolutionary explanation for them helpless, obviously doesn't explained every case of tears, or at least it it seems. Difficult to like you can imagine, realist crying scenarios where it is difficult to see how helplessness is relevant, not impossible, but difficult dead, just to think of a very, very light example hey. What's a comet, what's a moment in a movie that often makes you cry, I think about, like some other moments in movies. That made me cried. The most are win a character who you didn't know:

if you could depend on in fact, comes through for example, at the end of star wars, when HANS Solo appears in the millennium falcon, you know like that moment where he, you thought he laughed and and gone off on his own, but he returned stick to help his friends that those are the the moments, the kind of like get the tears swelling up in my eyes, and it's hard to see how, that really relates to helpless Maybe you can make a kind of very abstract argument has something to do with like needing the help of others. I am not sure I, when I, about it. It often like really tragic moments in films or in other the death of a protagonist like the death, Key character in in the mission generally opens up the tit. the water worked for me, in a very these kind of these kind of moments are: oh, I remember

watching the Untouchables and under the partnership, countries character dies every micro emotional, when I was young also that movies super bloody out an allowance watch and that as a kid bottom There is another one that came to call out logo name it. What's the name of that actor? Who plays the who plays the assassin forum for Capone in the o straggle drag Billy drag out a letter. I yeah he's in he's in the movie. Vamp is well here. He be often played a very good lizard. He kind of his allowances, reptilian yeah, dad do better than that felt that the actor. I also remember, as a young child watching romancing the stone began. as watching romance and started thinkers pay for it, but I really Burke crying when the villain died, because with sight or appeared to die. Readily

I think this could you get his hand, did by firecrackers Alien did off. You know, kind of a captain hook moment and I was been backing. The party that was just it was sort, violent and and terrifying, and therefore that was my emotional response to that: and I remember an adult, it was their comfort. It means like no look. He's ok, he's back to internet, heroes and then I think he died again I mean you if you're willing to get really abstract and stretch it around. I think you can come up with helplessness. Are powerless explanations for a lot of these, even so called tears of joy or things and movies, and so forth, like I think about- the tears of joy like apparent experiences observing their child do something for the first time I mean you can argue that may be. That has something to do with like feeling being overwhelmed by the unstoppable passage of time. Right you know, time is just like beyond your control and and you're. Seeing that divide meant or

or just generally being overwhelmed by positive emotions. Maybe just the fact that you are overwhelmed puts you in a sort of strange state of powerlessness or helplessness, even though the feelings are good. yeah yeah, I should say that as far as evolutionary hypotheses about crying. Oh, I know at vigour, hoots himself is sort of advocated the idea that maybe adult emotional tears serve a kind of purpose that is simple or to what would be done with vocal crying by babies. Eliciting is the social signal trying to elicit attachment, behaviors and and care from others, but that there may be a specific advantage for humans in the shedding of tears, instead of say loud local wailing in situations where you need to be more subtle and directed. Maybe you need to signals nobody strong emotional states and the need for help just say, like one

closely related person instead of making loud noises in drawing the attention of everyone and every thing, maybe even local, predators and stuff? So I don't know what I think about that, but also an interesting idea, maybe too full crying is. It is a more targeted way displaying this infantile helplessness that that elicits carers What from cavalry audio the studio that broad you, the devil within and the shadow girl comes a new true crime, podcast, the Pink moon murders, the local sheriff believes there may be more than one killer. It's been four days since those bodies were found and there's no arrest us this morning. They afraid his patient out in that area, what if they come back or whatever it scared meted out. Like a scared me if I was very, very intimidated, deliver crazy to thank you sleep one night, maybe smokin with your loved ones, and never wake up.

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So at this point I thought we might take a lot of what we discussed here and take it into the realm of mythology and religion, because Did you see? This is another vantage point from which to try and figure, or this out now in step, you know when we get into the realm of mythology, and religion were often a lot more specific. since the idea say that dog carrying a flaming stick when you started for explanations that- and you know you don't have as many cultures to do to go to you, who have perhaps more of a riddle as to why this is a thing. But when it was to weeping ecology and religion. When it comes to gods, weep humans, weeping, demagogues and heroes. Weeping like a lot of it, I guess it's kind of Bobby. As you know, we are humans, we weep, we could These up these these deserve this things that are important to us and, of course, you're going to weep and they will keep the humans and our story in the human like entities, and our stories

going to weep as well and dumb and on a certain level might not even seem that fruitful to really examined the scenario much beyond that, but I still think it's interesting two to go into at least some of it and also look at some of the broader theme, so we ve. ass. The importance of water in both life itself and in the sorts of myths cycles that humans build up about themselves and their origins. Life depends on water. Life is water. The key aspects of tears is that the data they tend to run clear or clear than anything else. It's gonna secrete from a human being, they are like water, they are are. Producing water and so in any mythology, especially this is enough to connect the tears of mortals, but especially with the tears of demagogy, in God's with the rain with oceans with rivers and floods. All of these, of course, our our bodies of water play heavily into myths cycles as well.

I was reading about some of this in pansy and flood nets. Gondwana myths and beyond by Michael Eve, vessel and the author point out the various tropes one finds in various religions concerning floods, now clear. There are floods in myth that are connected to Europe. To blind to this, to the Spirit the spilt The contents of a monster, whale vomit but one also finds various accounts, were tears, generate floodwaters or rains, and they might the tears of God's or monsters. from Adams tears of repentance theirs The item is in Adam and Eve, and also from the tears of grieving lovers, and there seemed to be just numerous examples of these. We are going back to her an episode. We did a long time ago causes me to think about the tears of re in egyptian mythology and then the tears of the sun, God re sort of falling to the. I believe becoming bees. The bees that there would be used for for beekeeping

the making of wax and honey and ancient Egypt yeah yeah Kennedy, we do see life emerging from various bodily secretions across the global mythic landscape, in cleaning, I did certainly but also including tears. the twentieth century folk lowest, stiff Thompson in his book, the folk tail it of the broader, miraculous birth of the hero, trophy one finds just threw out and throughout north american tribal beliefs, their new, examples of it. Pregnancy by rain or caused by food emerge from a dead mother the ground or from a job, but also the birth child from a climate of blood from a splinter wound quote tears or from other secretions at the body and then, interestingly enough, we also mentions TAT the most frequently this is from because of the nose again in north american tribal beliefs. I felt that interesting. We often don't think the divine nature of the mucous yeah,

I'll man. I was just reading. Actually numb tales from a chinese studio. There's a there's, a wonderful hub, little story that pops up so suitably weird in which, an individual's paying out in his study and and he listened to devise a chinese scholar and He sneezes three times each time he sneezes He sneezes out a small creature and then one of preacher, each the other each another one and gets a little bigger, and then that creature eats the remaining creature in end in. Finally, you just have one like larger creature. Forefront of these different mucus beings, and then it begins crawling up the individual's leg. and then once it gets to like the sight of his torso. It like attaches to his body and becomes a part of him, and this remains and you can see the remnants of its eyes and its mouth while as body or

yeah it's really good. And then, of course it is, is the nature and those stories is kind of like gap that happened the end of it. And the local governor made a report. Yes, yes, speaking of chinese stories. There is a different across a very minor chinese myth. I almost I hesitated to include it because it's it's ultimately kind of Monday, and I think it's also illustrate a vow of tears and stores of tears can factor, and it is just about every level of our explaining the world so there story and chinese mythology related by Yang and in turn her in the handbook of chinese mythology in which the may God Emperor shewn dies his wives grieve for him by weeping and ripping out their hair, the tears splatter on the bamboo, giving rise to a variety of speckled, bamboo, o interesting, certain natural ideological myth having to do with tears now

as far as is tear is the tears of God's go. You know, gods being largely human and conception, of course, economic criteria, It's interesting how their tears are basically to super natural amplification of the roles that human tears play and in many situations, for instance, great tradition, Ios weeps over the death of her son Memnon, who dies of the house, of Achilles Trojan war Zeus's moved by these tears and grants, memnon immortality mortality and then the tears of EOS, the dawn are also associated with the morning. Do not We might turn to judeo christian traditions here and consider the book of Jeremiah so Jeremiah, as it is often known as the weeping profit but summit put these two years is not only being the tears of Jeremiah, but also the tears of god- and I was reading about this in the tears of God,

Look Jeremiah by David, a boss worth this was published in the journal, Deblock and twenty thirteen, The author makes a connection between this weeping. This idea of of one weeping with God to God in the negative, the tears of of God, being part of the scenario makes a connection between this and attachment theory, which we ve been. We discuss discussed earlier so in this, the desired response to tears is empathy and support quote prayers, often expressed a desire for proximity to the parent like deity, who provides sense of security through superior power and wisdom in distress, the deed, offers help in divine Absent provokes anxiety being enters into this relationship when people at prayer hope the tears may motivate divine aid- oh listing. Yes, the idea

Jeremiah it would follow is drawing eyes is drawing on the parent child bond when he is weeping this. This ties in well with the analysis of God, beings in various religions and myths as being a cop sky parent. You know the idea of the parent extrapolated into the supernatural realm, especially coming back to the helplessness theme, I mean you can think about multiple levels of helplessness you can be in this situation, where you are helpless on your own, but maybe somebody else could intervene and alleviate the situation, but there are also ways in which you can be helpless. In a way that cannot possibly be alleviated like now say when a loved one is died, it's not like somebody can come and help you in or in like bringing them back from the dead or something, and they might be offer able to offer you comfort, but they can't actually fix what you know. The cause

of your pain, and here, though, if you think about the idea of being able to appeal to a supernatural parent who is all powerful, they could have the ability to actually fix things that that go even beyond the powers of other people to help you with yeah, I, and so like wind and Jeremiah. We see this, for instance, Jeremiah nine one does the king James version, oh, that my head were waters and mine eyes, a fountain of tears that I might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of my people now the Hebrew God was not the first to weep, of course, that the author points out that several laments from ancient Mesopotamia depicted deities. We being over their cities? He points to the air, do lament, which describes the weeping of the God Inky for the city of era. Do this, as in modern day, Iraq Quote parodies of Lord State outside his city, as if it were an alien city? He wept bitter tears

other inky state outside his city, as if it were an alien city. He wept bitter tears for the sake. his harm city. He wept bitter tears, Fourth also shares a couple of other examples: featuring female deities weeping for their cities by tab. as in God's also wept for each other in the ethic of Gilgamesh. We see it Samples of this issue are weeps over the death of the bowl of Heaven and in other epics too. sweep over a great flood and in Lille, weeps quote over the misery of the gods and then makes humans do their work. I was this thinking about this. This passage from the eridu lament, which is in sitting, because it includes the idea of weeping as a result of separation outside city as if it were an alien city. So again that role of, like the on being on to sort of bring the parent and child together like this. Operation causes the weeping now Basel

also touches on egyptian weeping gods. Isis sweeps for Son Horace and her husband of Cyrus so. In short, there is theirs up. Just a plethora of weeping deities in the region predating the Hebrew God stands to reason that this God to weep as part of its relationship with its people, its children or what have you Interestingly enough, he also points to an eager Riddick text from yogurt, an ancient port city and northern Syria. That desk the brain is the source of tears quote son. Do not cry do not shed tears. Her me spin, not the. oh of your eyes, nor the brains of your head with your tears, the brains of your head, that's great, This is an interesting thing also that a lot of sayings about tears talk about them as if there is a and of economy involved like spending tears is like spending money like you have a like. You have a you know, a sort of night supply of them, and you shouldn't spend them on this or that

yeah- and I guess in a lot of that is connecting I mean on one hand, there is the idea of crying oneself out that, after an emotional outburst, there will become there will come in India at your lease, be exhausted with it for the time being, and also the idea that you can I mean how much emotion, how much empathy do we have to go around? How much empathy can we have for four for those around us in those acts outside of our historic fear of of community- and I guess, a tie, and to those various discussions about it it begins. It gets complicated right because, again, we have strong connection between this. Physical response and the idea of human emotion and human empathy and suffering in all these. These, these ultimately kind of lofty human concept then further cut further complicated by by human, culture, human religion, human mythology and more.

Oh yeah, and this raises another really interesting question about the the purpose of tears, because think about tears on the other side of the equation. Right, like seems very clear, the tears have something to do with a person Who is helpless or feel themselves to be in some kind of state of helplessness or powerlessness, trying to elicit care from others? But tears come on other side to write like you have empathetic tears when you witness somebody else in a state of in a state of health, was no sore through loss or something like that suit. So clearly, there is this more complex response. That's bound up in in witnessing the pain or struggles of others, or even people. Weeping win their helping other people, a kind of mirroring behaviour, their yeah. And in this I want to come back to a book. I mentioned a wholly tears weeping in the religious imagination by patent and holly or edited by patent and holly.

which is another one of these books. If you want more on this topic, this is a good one to pick up, but it goes into great deal more detailed and we're getting into here, but that in that it struck me reading. That is that, yes, there not just one way of interpret how weeping factors into religious tradition, and one of the big one hears you can roughly divide actual regionalized weeping by worshippers into two categories, spontaneous weeping and non spontaneous weeping, the deaf being that certain religious settings might cause one, of course, to be overcome by grief or emotion and commenced to weep spontaneously. But then there are plenty of cultures which weeping say a funeral, is not merely ok, it's not merely permitted, as just this kind of random emotional, our even expected emotional outburst it could occur, but is also right and proper and even in some cases, expected plus

Whilst the weeping might largely feel like an individual experience and many cultures, both, for us and all of us, but there are plenty, cultures, where it is seen as a communal outpouring and one that is less about us and more about the community or about the spirits of the debt you know it if it gets into these ideas of of signalling that I'm I'm I'm communicating with my community and I'm even perhaps attempting to communicate with those who have passed on or it to draw on some of these ideas of of appealing to deities speaking to them Speaking in cars, melodic Lee, in that year you get into this divide of over social versus existential protest that's how they, the authors, who refer to it. We had that a crying could be explicit, Lee Performative a performance in a way that the inner, sometimes people would hear that sail performative crying. That means it's like fake or something, but I mean

it wouldn't be any more fake than say getting up and running in front of a crowd and saying something about your remembrances of a lost loved one would be like did because that is explicitly performing for other people on purpose. Does that mean what you're saying isn't true? Were there? Feelings are real, will know, I mean it's just it it's a way of viewing. You're doing as a display for other people for them to experience as well and also engage in its social bonding. The fact that someone would come in order to be seen crying and heard crying by other people around them doesn't necessarily mean that the crying is in some way, manipulative or false right yeah. So we have this private versus public device spontaneous forces non spontaneous So so again. Coming back to the idea of my crocodile tears, I feel like that is mean not to say I guess,

it couldn't be a situation where someone's tears are guard. Her are inauthentic, but for the most part hey. You know it seems like their tears going on there, some sort of an emotional response going on. There is some there's some sort of an emotional situation. You know him It's an actor summoning, some sort of past store or somehow tapping into their therein their emotional catalogue to read: reduced the physical active of weeping. Perhaps you know it's a: aid more nerve, for example it at a funeral than in that case you know that are weeping for the dead in their there there connecting with the US. Declarations of of this religious ride and perhaps their own experiences It's not like there is not an emotional corridor what's happening. This may be a difference in our experience of how the term is using. I don't think I would have replied the term crocodile tears to somebody who is like morning at a funeral, even if they were doing so in a performative It seems like I most often encounter that phrase used to do

scribe. perceived falls. Sort of weeping by some one who has caused the very harm, they are allegedly weeping over. Look, it was just think, imagine the same thing I could have jack. The ripper went to a funeral right Ok, we're being one of Jack, the ripper. What of Jack the Ripper got caught and then cried in court. Saying like oh, please don't punish me, I'm so remorseful for my actions and people would say like yeah, how remorseful are you really? Are you just trying to manipulate us by by crying Well, you may be put me in a difficult position of defending jack. The ripper can safely say that no their tears and absolutely not and others are more complex situation right, you're getting into two degree. We afford these kind of him in all states too. to criminals, to convicted criminals and and so forth? But I guess the count. Question is

is there a situation where the individual that scenario, is Salute lay feeling no emotional state, to produce those tears like, even if they are there, ultimately only feeling sorry for themselves. It still on. National outpouring its a situation of like the crocodile has no emotion in there its tears are not to be trusted. Perhaps the emotions are misplaced, or at least that is the already that the argument that could be made, I mean ultimately, I guess who knows what's going on within the the mind of the accused in this situation, but but it's certainly situation of of the crocodile Why? I wouldn't blame a crocodile for eating heads, but but they're so they're, so unsatisfying you're, so little need so crunchy I gotta say. Actually, while we were reading about crocodile tears, I came across a thing that really did make me feel super sad for crocodiles, and it was. It was also in that the vigour hoots book, with the section about the history of of the concept of crocodile tears,

any talking about a book called on the nature of animals by a roman author from the second and third century named alien or alien us who does disk. Weeping and crocodiles, but not in the context of of any kind of like hypocrisy or anything like that, instead talks about. He clay There is an egyptian city called Ed FOO, also known as apple apple, where, where people can crocodiles out of the river, and then they hang them up on trees and just beat them. They beat them with like whips and stuff and the crocodiles cry, and when I read that I was like all bodies, that's her! That's not good! Don't pathos crocodiles, If you take anything away from this first podcast absurd, its dont be dont, be cruel to crocodile lions court. yeah. I also don't be like you know. What I mean don't be super nice is unlike feeding them

That also being mean to crocodiles, if you are you're feeling than human food and Lynn leading them to associate humans with it. whether or not it looks like their crying just leave him alone, leave him alone. Let them due to their thing. You do your thing: let's keep the distance all right, we're going to go and close. This episode out here, obviously we'd love to hear from everyone out there about tears, and I certainly of the various hypotheses that we discussed here today and the religious connotation. and I know we have already heard from a lot of people- so we can be talking about some of this. Future listener male installments. I know we have already heard from someone saying hey how about doing how about the firm and What's the deal with crying, so we'll talk about that, specifically probably on the next listener mail. At the outset-

In the meantime, if you would like to check out other episodes of stuff a blow your mind, our core episodes, air on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the stuff to blow your mind, podcast feed artifact on Wednesday run and weaken listener mail. On Monday, and then on Friday, we do weird how cinema that's our time to set aside most of the serious contemplation and just focus on a weird myth. Use thanks, as always to our excellent audio producer, said Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other to suggest a topic for the future. Just to sail. Oh, you can email sat contact that stuff to blow your mild dotcom stepped into your mind is protection. I heart media from our past, my hat radio, by how many laugh appetite cast wherever you listening to your favorite shares

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