Small business saturday is november twenty fifth, so let's go shop small with american express because everything you want is in the neighborhood through new style is in the neighborhood was trying to some clean green, are in the neighborhood especial get Definitely in the neighborhood november twenty small business saturday, and it's all in the neighbour. Let's go shop, small with a powerful backing of american express, at ford, we pride ourselves on building strong, capable vehicles, but we're only as strong as the people who drive them. People like you, Why don't you see and f one fifty but see what they bill because build ford, proud. It's a pact between us, our drivers and what we can do together ford, proud. Some

transit features may not be available. Maybe subjects judge a boost mobile, passionate determination fuel what it means to get after that's why they build their offers. Keeping in mind those who go, the extra mile loose mobile is pardonable champions from across the nation to empower with device. servants they won't break the bank joint boost mobile, get after him. Which the boost mobile now and get a free samsung galaxy? Eight, twenty three: five g for power by america's largest five g networks: the offer details at boost mobile dakar terms and conditions apply the one thing we can never get more of his time or can we? This is watson,

work is straight away. I designed to multiply productivity by automating tasks when you watson ex your business, you can build digital skills to help human resources, spend less time generating offer letters writing job rex and managing schedules and spend more time on humans. Let's create more time for your business with watson. Ex orchestrate learn, or an I b m dot com, slash orchestrate, ibm, let's create folks tonight classic episode it is one that is near and dear and frightening to all of us. It's a question. Will google start impersonated you yes while all the days of July, twenty eighteen hours, so naive, o the salad days of twenty eighteen, when we were so young right We had no idea what was going to happen, because even DARPA can't fully predict the future yet. You know, I remember going back to

lived, really. Swirled office for throughout remember going back in during the and I make an there was, is scary moment where I saw somewhat when our coworkers calendars left on, like march thirteen through fort like the day, everything shut down. That's like zombie movie stuff, that's eerie. I think it was a rap on roberts dusk. I do I just remember seeing that to ban like oh while it, oh sped, it was our are buddy Seth, yeah long time worked on stuff, the boy your minds, but yet it's the disturbing the last of this idea and then all we talk about in this episode is attack that I don't know if it made it all the way through to fruition. That's certainly not what we associate with this kind of stuff, but google was I think something called duplex that was attack for conduct. Natural conversations to carry out real world talks over the phone now the name of the game, for that is chat, jpg

and all of the many worms that come in that bag that were in bag badger bag. But this is kind of like almost like a peek, a sneak peek into like maybe what could be a precursor to that right, guys four percent yeah, because this this idea? of all. eating ones day today they routine interactions. It feels cool I am certain that in episodes like this, one of us will will all enough employee reference that scary scene with mickey as a wizard in fantasia. You know what I mean he hit em up and at first it's easy. It's lot of fun. This brooms were psychotic, so come with us, back to those happy days of twenty eighteen and let's discuss what ai might become, knowing it has become from you.

but those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know Hello is welcome back to the show. I'm no standing in ferment. with that line, because we never match not here better now amount then- and I always look at each other for a few minutes and realize that we're not quite sure how to start the show however. Never fear met is off on a very special secret project that he cannot wait to tell you about. We will to tell you sometime soon. I look forward to that new spoilers. In the meantime, they call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer, Paul the purse

Will digital assistant death, Yeah pdf. But, most importantly, you are you, you are here, and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know we're we're pretty excited about today's episode. One pdf stand for when it was like a palm pilot was a personal digital assistant. Ah, yes, I believe, so. Was it ok? So there is public display of effectual as that, but they used to call like blackberries pds back before the advent of the iphone and the more tablet like device Personal digital assistance has to be as not funny them go. That's kind of become a new thing, because today we're talking about the kinds of personal digital assistance that you can talk to and can potentially talk back. Yes, let's look at some of the content, It's a very common troop in science, fiction, robots, impersonating, human being with increasing levels of fidelity, and we see it and pop culture all the time.

Some stories like in every episode of the terminator, every everything related the terminator franchise machine consciousness, tries to mimic humanity exe. lucidly as a means of waging war and other places. Or other series, such as the matrix artificial, entails inter alia, attempts to surround us meet bags within impersonation of reality, complete with individual machine minds. They can pass for humans and, in other cases, humans worked together to build technologies that can in person Other human beings in any number awaits them sometimes for sexy times reasons church. Sometimes you just companionship and we ve seen go awry I mean a terminator. I think the whole point of that series was that humans created skynet. ever for their own to serve their own purposes, and then Skynet said what up humans were done with your going. Our own thing or like in west world

and this goes for it like us at any number of ways from increasingly lifelike androids, two entities that exist purely in the digital sphere, able to help genuine seeming conversations and functioning at or above what we would consider the average of all of human intelligence, as history has proven. Science fiction is often prescient and it's not uncommon for authors to spin fantastic tales only for those tales to move years decades later from the realm of science fiction to the world of science fact and the quest for this humanlike technology in real life is no different yeah. I actually saw a youtube video, a bunch of clips the times that science fiction films have predicted technology that totally a thing right now like a star trek. For example, there is little communicators, their basically iphone, and remember that seen in total recall where their walking through a full body scanners at the air

or me see like their skeletons. You can see the weapons ironing and such as pretty much what we Now, at the airport, we gotta put our hands over our heads and stand in those full body scanners where, hopefully they just draw a little cartoon of us with the naughty bits as scrubbed out, but in theory they can see everything so two is a high and the kinds of things are talking about today, yeah and the concept of what we call artificial intelligence, long time listeners, you may recall, as we use this phrase, you may recall that, as some former guest of ours have objected to the term artificial intelligence with a very good question, what makes it art official? What makes it if we're talking about consciousness? What makes it any less of a consciousness than our own right and we think that's a good. We think that's a very good and bad point. We tend to agree with it, but for the sake of brevity, we're just gonna go with a sigh as now

the sort of thing it's just easier to say it that way. The concept of the has surprisingly old roots nor culture, especially if we consider ancient tales of non human entities, impersonating human beings, the fairy stories of changeling switched out a birth or are god's changing shape to breed with animals or people or shape shifters in the twentieth century. The concept of this artificial, inorganic King life form was popularize, just like the point me with science fiction through culture and fix it. I get we if you think of one of the earliest artificial intelligence is there. blew up in the western world. It's the tin man

wizard of oz yeah. I never thought of him like that, but I guess it's true. It's a good stand in for that cause, even the heart that he gets it. The spoiler alert for the wizard of oz sure is like a clockwork heart. You know it's like something to add to his machinations. It's not actually a physical harm, so he's absolutely meant to be like an automaton which is kind of the earliest form of robotics that go back to ancient times, even when you have these incredibly intricate creations, that move through a series of gears and pulleys and what have you but are necessarily imbued with any kind of like the ability to make choices. But there are some that can even I play games with him as well. It's like a writer, the mechanical turk, that's right, yeah yeah and they were lauded for their ability to appear to do human esque theme rice, but people generally did not think they had a soul for science and it kind of goes back to your mentioning we'd. Had some folks say he had take issue with the term of artificial intelligence. We've also had some folks write, I'm taking issue with the term the idea

machine learning, because you know it is a matter of were still at a place where we have two programme machines to do what we want. We certainly have no have yet to fully experience this. Like idea singularity, were the machine takes what we ve imbued with and develops its ability to go outside of that are like make decisions outside of the parameters that weave represent very rarely have we seen then, and we do see it. They typically get shut down. Its yeah meadow cognition right, so I was thinking about thinking, rather so by the nineteen fifties. Scientist mathematicians Philosophers were familiar with this concept of Colin Powell, artificial intelligence and hour species began to cognitive. We migrate from this world. A fantasy toward a world increasingly grounded. In fact- and we can, we can hit some of the high points of artificial intelligence here in nineteen fifty the fame.

Code. Breaker alan turing made one of the most significant early steps in real life ay I, when he and some of his colleagues created where we now when we call the turing test is named after him. Of course, he wrote this paper old computing machinery and intelligence that laid the groundwork both for the means of constructing ai and for the he's in which we can measure the intention. So that a or our success building at which might kind to be two different things and adler well, amazingly, and sadly, this line of thought was ahead of the curve. Touring could not get right work building these human, like mines or more specifically, he couldn't get were building mines that could fool humans into thinking. They were also human minds because the technology, the time had hard limits like to the point you make nor about the maker.

Google, turk up until nineteen, forty, nine or so computers couldn't, the store commands, we can say commands or decisions here they could only execute them, and this meant that the computers we could build at that I'm were unable to satisfy a key prerequisite of intelligence. They couldn't remember past events, past information and therefore they could not use this memory to inform present commands or decisions, and in this way computers began at that

tabula rasa state that blank slate state that so many mystic spiritualist and philosophers spin their lives attempting to attain. I think that's fascinating computers by people in practice, hard core meditation existed mentally only in the present yeah, we'll get back to that concept and a little bed in terms of some of the newer computers and how they are able to quote him quote figure things out some better than others by. Let us go back to the fifties for a second and computers were insanely expensive, eddie, mrs no secret. They ran you you at least one he couldn't even own, and I wasn't a thing for about two hundred k a month which I believe been in two days. Androids. That would be about two million dollars for one month,

Computer use yeah in two thousand and eighteen dollars is a lotta netflix subscriptions re, my friend, and only of course, the most prestigious universities and huge technology corporations could even you know, afford the cost of entry and so for turing and his ilk and to actually be able to succeed in building something resembling anywhere close, artificial intelligence. They would have to be part of Some network of high profile very wealthy eventual funders of research, yeah yeah, that would that they would be able to receive just a an absolute boat load of money from to get this Work done and imagine you know, that's a hard sell. It seems really interesting now, but that knowing what we know job here but back, then literally walking up to people and say hey we're good at math and do you remember, the tin man from sort of oz. We sort of want to make that. Can we

have all of the money, so that's that's tough, but the soldier dawn in nineteen. Fifty five another groundbreaking event occurred. There was the premier of a programme called the logic theorists it was supposed to mimic the problem, solving skills of a human being and it was funded by her favorite shady buggy men, the research and feldman corporation known today, as ran to rand corporation. That sounds like something out of a sci fi movie in and of itself, and it's still around doing pretty interesting and secretive work and I believe they ended up having a good relationship with the the. U s: oh yeah government, big time, apps you're, absolutely right This logic theorist is considered by many people to be the first technically the first artificial intelligence programme, and there was a big conference in nineteen fifty six

who stood by John Mccarthy and a guy named morven minsk ie, and in this conference they presented the logic fearest as a proof of concept. The conference is called the Dartmouth summer research project on artificial intelligence, and you know I thought of you with this issue, how how we both love acronyms, I feel like in this one. The deal would be silence. I'm going gonna call it sir pie, that's great! That sounds better cause. The diet know you. You can't really do a D s, sound surprised, the weird it's not gonna fly so the conference itself. Fell short of the original, very ambitious aims of the organizers they wanted to bring I gather the world's best and brightest subject matter. Experts and, by god, make an artificial mind. Yeah, it's been a week of a weekend right right, they said it took. God seven days? That's what he said. We could do it for like that, but the problem was pretty much

body disagreed on how exactly you would make a human like intelligence, and at this point there still thinking in terms of artificial intelligence being like humans, which is a huge. Gumption, but the unanimously agreed for the very first time on a single, crucial point that it was possible to make a in this set the stage for the next two decades of research, so from nineteen fifty seven to nineteen. Seventy four artificial intelligence interest in at our research in it they flourish computers. They could stick it out. They were by improving by leaps and bounds. It could store more information, which is crucial and, of course they became faster and cheaper and more accessible. Machine learning, algorithms also began to improve people got better knowing which algorithm to use for their particular purposes, which was also important because it was,

you know that there are sort of an established language of algorithms that people could pick and choose from to suit their particular problems. Early successes like the general problem solver Ben tell me a little bit more about the general problem solver, it does what it says on the tin You should give it a variety of problem, this guy and, generally speaking, it would attempt to solve the nine a silicon do the most creative solution by yeah and again, that's that's like an early days thing. So at the time it was very impressive, but of course it was just the beginning and I eat you know we yet another example, I think of a high apple occasion in that time. Yet this is when alexa was first invented. Hope he s getting. Let's call eliza, but is this go a spoken language interpreter which I dunno I wonder if elect says it is a nod to eliza when you think then only valid.

Pretty cool only a couple of letters up. It was a spoken language interpreter that helped convince the government to relate okay. This is something that we're into, and this was really important for our story today. Yeah it convinced the government specifically DARPA here in the united states, you start funding artificial intelligence darpa. As you know, if you are a long and listen. The show darpa is the resident mad science department of the united states government and it stands for defence, advanced research projects agency they're, the ones who do all the x files level or a fringe level stuff you hear about in the news or often, and it's gonna be therefore, for

debate and then there's also stuff like Matt's favorite public private partnership. Skunk works is just a good name. I mean I if you can like it for nothing other than that, but they do all the secret air force projects, and you know spy planes and all kinds of stuff kind of technology. Think about that is probably years ahead of anything we've seen out there in the world today at stake. For? U F, o's are a great in this made. very gas, very optimistic, because that's another very human thing that we haven't quite learned how to program optimism in ninety Seventy marvin minsk ii that guy who co hosted this conference. He told life magazine from three to eight years. We'll have a machine with the general intelligence of an average human being

he was wrong, but your point about suppress technology know who is wrong so far as we know, it's interesting there to not get too far ahead of ourselves about with everything that's going on with big public facing companies like google and amazon and apple and stop you start to get a sense that may be the secret government stuff isn't quite as far ahead at once was right. I this is my opinion at a now. Will I think it's it's a good thing if something we won hear from you about, ladies and gentlemen, its proven that in terms of physical hardware. Material of warden weapons in aviation and stop, it is proven that the? U s in most other governments, want to keep that stuff under, wraps. Absolutely. I guess what I'm saying is when you're, when you're, looking at a company that trying to sell you something and you see how far they advance with each update every year right, you kind of get a sense.

Maybe this is about where there actually at that's. That's the point, so I bring up the the asian stuff and the weapons of war stuff, to contrast it here, because what what seeing also is that the governments of the world- this is true. The governance of the world usually can't pay the best and brightest as much as the private. to getting so their grabbing some of the best workers. Unless those people are severe. the ideological and then they're, making most of the progress which they would later cell to govern. So I think maybe there is a little more transparency, I think so, which is Interestingly, positive thanks, but let us look let's get her again, but keep would keep him and ran along so the quest for human. Like artifice intelligent soldiered on, but it still had tremendous obstacles. Although computers could now

The were information, they couldn't store enough of it and they could not process it at a fast enough pay, so funding dwindled until the eighties and that's when a I experienced a renaissance which will get to after. from our sponsor introducing apple lot series nine now, there's a magical new way to use your appalache without touching the display just doubled. Happier Next finger and thumb together, you can doubled, have to accept a call you can. Doubled? Have this news an alarm? You can even double tab deposits on and started up again, apple watch series. Nine magic at your fingertips, iphone tennis or later required with additional wireless service plans, may boost mobile, passionate determination view

It means to get after it. That's why they built their offers, keeping in mind those who go. The extra mile who's mobile has partnered with champions from across the nation to empower you with device. servants. They won't break the bank joint blue smoke get after him. Mobile, is partnering with people you already know and love like the is jason revere wrapper. Song writer to see and professional skill. Border and olympic athletes of maria bravado to highlight their unique talents aspiring journey and how boost mobile helped them continue to get after it loose mobile knows the importance shining spotlight neighbour, kids, in showing up for the community's therein. tommy join booths mobile, yet asked switched to boost mobile today can get a free, samsung galaxy, eight, twenty three: five g powered by america's large five g networks: new customers of taxes, extra wonders I spurlock foggy, not saleable every other research

apply to check out the full offer, details that boosts mobile dhaka terms and conditions apply. Get your home holiday, ready with robotics black friday specials november twentieth through thirty of get two hundred and twenty dollars off the all in one q, riba robot cleaning device from eight ninety nine, ninety nine to just six, seventy nine. Ninety nine save three hundred and fifty dollars on the air, seven max ultra four. their dollars on the s a pro ultra, a one hundred dollars on real iraq's dyad pro amazing, like five ideals today: mobile rocked icon and amazon com, you're an innovator, a founder, a pioneer disrupt industries, creating the next big thing, you're busy, launching your product, hiring teams and thinking about funding for the next stage of growth. You in velocity without the volatility age bc. Innovation. Banking is here to partner with. You

and deliver what your business needs now and in the future our team is led by experts in the tec, life, science and health care industries, combined with our international capabilities, we're here to help your business by new opportunities through our borderless platform, banking for Innovation doesn't look like it used to and we excited to supercharged the visionaries of today to find out more visit innovation, banking, that hsbc hsbc, Innovation. Banking is a business division with services provided in the united states by hsbc bank usa. Any member f, I see so the nineteen eighties new tools and methods gave I feel the day I ai aids that renaissance that that Ben mentioned that kick in the digital pants and

and in John hartfield and another fella named david Roma heart popularized, this concept of deep learning, which is a technique that allow computers to learn using experiences using and paying attention to surroundings, for example, the the idea of the fact that our phones are serving us ads because we're talking about stuff, that's taken them from an in and using it to do. Something and learning are our habits right, and this is a really important part of things like these personal digital assistance that we talked about at the top of the show,

and on the other side of the brain. Here too, or I guess, in a parallel approach, a guy named edward fagin bomb introduced expert systems that mimicked the decision making process of a human experts. What happens is the programme will ask an expert in the field like it would ask super producer Paul or richard feynman a question about production or physics, and then they would say how do you respond in this given situation and it could risk and it would take this for every situation. It could soak up and then not experts could later receive advice from that programme about that information. It sounds basic now I would sounds like how a search engine canoe with increasingly accurate levels of fidelity. What question you mean to ask when you ask a question member, when Google used to be super passiveaggressive and say Did you move when I just felt it

four years ago instantly and the reason for that is that it has access to every inch. That anyone is ever put into google, and so it combines all that information and makes the best guess as to what it thinks you're, probably certainly for based on what everyone else that has started. Searching for that kind of thing has also done, which is that same deep learning, stuff that is coming into play, which makes predictive tech so funny it can be. I guess it depends on this planet you're on and with a little bit eureka. Sometimes it can be really bone. Haven't you figure this out yet siri boiler alert well, he but this was all really put to the test in the nineties in two thousand, when we really hit some big landmark moments: high water mark moments, an artificial intelligence like with

with Gary kasparov, who I know that you are fascinated with, although he has had a problematic figure at time, yeah yeah radiators him. It's his him aside, yeah chess grandmasters, the human ones, at least right- are immensely even fractals compelling because there is always some other layer to their personality, and you have to wonder about the purported correlation between mental instability and high thresholds of intelligence short because well that's a story for another danish. I you know, I guess I make it a little closer for us, but we can do it oh yeah you're, seeing he was defeated by deep blue built by ibm a computer just built to play chess. This was a joke. on Henry moment for the human race and then

scientists name, cynthia brace l created kismet, a programme of recognising and displaying emotion now for all our technical futurists philosophers in the crowd? Does kismet. Recognising and displaying emotion automatically mean that kismet experiences, emotion story for another day: these purse in verse, programme. One on one matches didn't stop with the game of chess. There was also jeopardy right.

And then there was one other one that had tremendous implications for the world of programming yeah. That was much more recently with Google's alpha. Go: let's go as in the ancient chinese strategy game of go and it successfully defeated a go champion, kai g and go as is in a tourist lee complex game, very difficult to predict and always have to be many many move ahead of your opponent. So that's pretty cool. That's almost a step further, wouldn't you say, that go would be taken more challenging for a computer to beat a human opponent than chess. Even yes, this is like a and had a real serious leap forward. I would absolutely agree, and a lot of people were even more skeptical watching that game people under

to go. We can also go out there and say it Paul. I dont know if you are familiar with this, but are you? Are you oh enthusiasts, do play this game. No, not really I've never played. I remember it from the movie pie. Remember me, the one one of their aronofsky's nazis virtue, in which people crap on better I enjoyed it, allow when I was young anyway, but that movie is about a kind of a mad computer science, it's to realises that there that the cabal contains some kind of coal who'd involving the number for pie and gets, goes down a crazy rabbit, all insanity and paranoia but goes- is a recurring bab game in that movie, implying that it's all about high level, very, very high level. Thinking yeah. I think that's a, I think. That's excellent. New pie is a

task, but jarring film, you know, and so we see a common trend in these again will call them John henry moments in every. people generally know the story of John Henry right. Now you think they do and if he was a steel drive and man beriah Gimme, some more will John Henry. For anyone who is outside of the? U s and I dont think being. We know for sure how common this story is in the states any more. He was in focus He was african american steel driving man, S. Nor said that's absolutely true, and his job was the hammer steel jaw. Bill into rock to make holes for explosives right. They would blast rock constructing a railroad tunnel and in the legend. He was pitted against

new fangled steam powered hammer. It was a man against machine race in the historical aspect of whether this did or didn't happen, as did people go I come forth on it, but what we are experiencing now with the eyes a series of increasingly high stakes, John Henry moments, key Jeez said Gary Kasparov was: it was akin jenin play deep blue yeah. It has. I own body ali can jennings ever omnibus, fame and another things yeah he's Are you really want a bunch of everything? yea at. In addition to you know his big tend item witches. Hang it hanging out with us it herself right. So now we are the cost of a world. That is both brief. To quote out watson watson, as is lots in, is defeated. Keyser, deep, blue yeah, that's the chess with just one. The watson was there:

where's the quiz, but also by ibm. The right, that's correct! Ok, yes, so can Jennings verses, watson, kasparov, verses d, Blue and now we are on the cusp of a new world that is both brave. To quote Aldous, huxley and strange the bridge citizen in a developed country, interact with some form of artificial intelligence on an increasingly frequent basis, even if its indirect and you think about it. When is the last time you called a large company and didn't first go through an automated line, a rough impersonation of a conversation with a computer. I just always start asking zero right away, does need to ask the exact because they, it's so annoying because it's like, if I thought that that a computer simulation could help me solve the problem. I probably would have just done this online rank ass. It I'm calling the company in the first wave

rail with measure might get off. My lawn monopolies do seriously it's like they're. Never that helpful. You always have to repeat yourself over and over again, and you usually do not get the result you're looking for and which could change with the some of the new technology we're talking about today, which I think we can get into right now: possibly, maybe maybe I'll change is one of the big task for artificial intelligence right now. What what we use these applications for now is big data. We have built so many ways to scoop up information there, for old, primate brains, which are built for foraging and living in small bands and forest, can analyze and process all this stuff ourselves. So we built machines and codes in this case codes could just be standing four lines of thought to decipher all this data. For us and the application of artificial intelligence in this regard

done, amazing things and industries like technology, banking, marketing, entertainment It was automation of like sweeping through giant sets of data sure so that humans on how to do it and using particular- and what's the word, ai algorithms, I guess one way of putting it or just rules yang. Look for this day in this set of data. It hearts out this file. If then, whatever so, that's kind of been the primary use of that. Up to this point, in all of this, things you say so What's next right right because right now It doesn't matter if whether the algorithms improve much. It doesn't matter whether there is a sea change. The basic concept is there and this massive computing approach, this vacuum cleaner approach, For instance, the usa uses allows artificial intelligence to learn through brute force in the future. Going to see more variation in ay. I will see autonomous vehicles will see predictive ordering sir.

Mrs, which I know most of us were here and soon it will seem strange not to have some sort of artificial intelligence existing in some aspect of your everyday life. But today's question and a spooky one is how close to human can these programs actually get and I think we'll get to that After just one more quick, little sponsor break introducing apple lot series, nine, now, there's a magical new way to use your appalache. Without touching the display just doubled happier, index finger and thumb together, you can doubled have to accept to call you doubled have two snoozing alarm. You can even double tab deposits on and started up again

the world series nine magic at your fingertips. I've antennas, relator required with additional wireless service plan, may boost mobile, passionate determination, view let me get after it s why they build their offers, keeping in mind those go. The extra mile whose mobile has pardoned with championed from across the nation to empower you divide, this isn't a that won't break the bank joint blue smoke and get after him, this mobile is pardoning with people you already know and love like the but he's jesse revere wrappers, fingers, songwriter to see and professionals a border and olympic athletes of maria provide to highlight their unique talents aspiring jerry and how boost mobile helped them continue to get after it. loose mobile- knows the importance shining spotlight neighbour is in showing up for the community's therein. It's time to join boost mobile get after it switched to boost mobile. Today,

can get a free, samsung galaxy. Eight, twenty three: five g powered by america's large five g networks: new customers, only taxes extra wonder, ice prolong foggy not available everywhere other risk should apply to check out the full offered details at boost mobile darker terms and conditions applied, one, a vacuum that smarter about messes and that I do then jump on the robo rod black friday sale on amazon, dot com and robo rock dot com november twentieth to thirtieth, get the key people for a six, seventy nine. Eighty, nine, rather s, seven maxell to produce nine forty, nine, nine or the s April. Well you're for eleven. Ninety nine. Ninety nine and the diet. Pro is just three forty, nine, ninety, nine all roma, rhonda com or amazon, dot com an innovator, a founder, a pioneer disrupt industries creating the next big thing. You're busy

launching your product, hiring teams and thinking about funding for the next stage of growth. need velocity without the volatility aid es bc. Innovation, banking is here to partner with and deliver what your business needs now and in the future. Our team is led by experts in the tec, life science and healthcare industries combined with our international capabilities, we're here to help your business by new opportunities through our borderless platform, banking innovation doesn't look like it used to and we your excited to supercharged the visionaries of today to find doubt more visit innovation, banking, that hsbc hsbc, innovation banking is a business division with services provided in the united states by hsbc bank usa. Any member f, I c the

it's crazy hey. I'm I'd like to reserve a table for Wednesday. The sudden seven people, it's four for people for people when wednesday at six p m Actually, we lisa like opera like a fire people of vehicle before you can come How long is the way, usually to be seated when tomorrow a wiki or for next wednesday. Ah the seventh a nice, not too easy is it. You can comfortable Oh, I gotcha thanks, but then I did that didn't sound like anything at all, I was just a conversation between a young man and the proprietor, de the chinese restaurant ray

and who was who is? Who ever has a great time? Making restaurant reservation that now, because we have over table for that. Am I right right? I, like many people, our generation hate talking on the phone? It's true, there's even a term for that I think, was a telephone yeah. Yes, yeah good one, but now I felt yeah what I found out when I was like. How can you make a? Can you just make any? a phobia, and if you can, I think, its view Are you american english? Now I have microphone a phobia which is weird considering that I sit in front of one all the time and right now, I'm in utter terror, but no, I was being coy that clip was not between two humans. I think you can probably guess which side of the conversation was the nonhuman nap yet because, if you listen back to it, I think you'll notice, a couple of tells

in that there was a few, there were a few kind of wrenches thrown into that that exchange where the the person was trying to call to make a reservation, and there were some fusion from the person on the other end about how many but one day they one of the reservation, to be how many people were in the party im right and it ultimately ended up with. Well, you don't really need a reservation, so the person on the other on the phone was an equipped. It was not something they would typically do. Reservations seemed like not really a thing in this restaurant and so that the the color kind of repeated himself things like the specific time and day, and then there was a momentary pause when they said we will we do reservations for groups of five. Yet more knows I gotcha which still sound very human. It did. It was. Though it was a conversation between an unsuspecting restaurant employee, as you mentioned, and a computer program, this is an example of google's do

ex system, a personal assistant designed to make users lives easier by handling standard phone call, so, like doctors, appointments reservations and so on? Breaking up with of twinning. Without troubling you or possibly even letting, first on the other end of the phone know that it's not? Actually you make the call, and we get it all kinds of ethical quandaries. With this that will get into first, but first and foremost, though, I think it's interesting that the idea is its inherently tricky the whole the whole affair re up. The idea is to not inconvenience either party, but you are. You are genuinely kind of tricking someone new believing there talking to a person, yes and you're, giving up a lot. stuff, so at first. This seems amazing because, like we established earlier telephone afforded In addition to being really fun to say it is a genuine thing and I would argue increasingly, people are resorting to text

I mean how? How often do you talk on the phone if you're not talking to like your mom or dad like an enter a pre appointed time? I mean I'm doing interviews for a pie, tat last sheriff, but that's a very that's a very specific task, not for fun, never for fine and unless I just feel like, I could say something out a lot quicker on the phone real quick than I could usually for business, though works traffic, sometimes or if conference calls, the dread conference call that's also word sittings- the habits of the for fun, not very off, you know, but People in the mix there's totally a dark side to this idea, The super convening an amazing idea of my phone being able to make calls for me and set up my you know my waxing appointment or whatever, because the

patients are are incredibly far reaching aren't they ben yeah. They are no, it's not just a it's, not just an automated phone line, saying press one if you like to make a payment press two, if you'd like to hear a mailing address, it's not just impersonating a generic human. Now it's a program capable of impersonating specific humans, only you capital? Why? Oh you specifically you listening to this and get a lot of sail out of it it's already now we're not saying that it it it it mimics your voice, that's not what this is is implying not yet not yet, but the idea That is, it has access to all your information right. It has access to your date, books in your opponent, person and knows everything about you, because its tied into this little

then you carry around with you. That is basically your life in a wallet form more specifically with Google, this, this initial fear increases or the potential for misuse and crew. Since this journalist aroun excellent article in her name's alex grants to her, the dangers are threefold: first, similar twit, what you're proposing? Oh this is a programme from Google. Alphabet and Google already knows a ton of personal information about you. Whether or not you use an android phone is means a duplex. Doesn't just oh what time you want to meet your tender day at that top as place. It also essentially knows every other single thing. Google knows about your life and What is so widespread that you do not have to have a google account for this to touch you? Second, a criminal, a government, a stalker, pranks tourism

internet troll could potentially cheat duplex out of giving up your information in a phone call. Imagine like somehow being fooled into thinking. It's calling a restaurant to make aid delivery order and then boom. Somebody has your credit card information, expiration date and security code. There it s a really great at a whole bunch of great comments in these in the common section on this gives motor article by alex crowns, and one of them was the idea like how this technology could be used by this term. I love that actors in I'll write off, for example, at what, if you had a pizza play

Is that wanted to use this kind of technology to flood a rival pizza company with fake calls and keep their phones tied up in an anime? That was the particular one in sort of a fetched one, but the idea of the implications being that you could use this for scamming, easily big time as especially with older folks that maybe aren't going to key in to the fact that this is not a real person. and you could possibly automate and scale scamming in a way that would far surpass the way it's done now, because even the least tech savvy people can tell that your hearing a automated voice. You now spamming you to try to give a sign up for a cruise something like that: absolutely an end to follow up on crime just because you said was threefold. So to follow up on the third thing which I found the perhaps the

disturbing here no forget. Perhaps it is the most disturbing thing a person could hijack your duplex account and us essentially function as you until such a point as they're caught. So imagine, learning your credit and savings have been wiped out because you are duplex in a series of untraceable transfers to some caribbean island. Some offshore account there's no think that anyone could do because legally, that thing would be functioning as you crowns and other crew of this technology are also concerned that, at the initial press, innovation, Google, building says another nido feature and they don't say anything while privacy or concerns. It was very much lip what we can do not pay. Should we just like it's like the land from jurassic park. Your scientists were spending so much time to me whether they could never thought if they should and crime

finds away way there. It does, but that in that you may think this is alarmist, but it's just like order to hops, given a jump away from the seven. Obviously, this technology is not ready for Oh, no, no, no one saying that is just kind of like a nido party trick. They did it there. I owe developers conference but yeah you're right as if, if, if its literally the the voice inside your phone. Then it's gonna have as to all the data, that's in your phone and depending on how careful you are with this stuff, it could have every bit of identifying information that a human banker would ask you to to confirm this crazy wire transfer that you want to do. What do they ask you for Ben? They ask you for like the last four digits of your social, dirty number your mailing addressed in your name. Maybe your mother's maiden name or some secret word, something that has to be on your phone in some way: shape or form

unlikely and many people email themselves, those answers or when their online they can check back, including passwords. So it's a very important point to make that it has duplex offers not been assigned any kind of rule out date. People are still speculating just I'll closer. How far google is making this technology viable outside of testing situations and later available to the public, but the problem as this is not the only game in town, sure audio, persecution spooky. But what about video? Do you remember back during the for a summer. Bin laden with various people were arguing that the been lie. and propaganda. Videos wasn't the real guy, but someone else personated him or some assure Erlich snapchat filter right, there's getting, but

not because all of the crazy tech blows my mind how much research and development they put into the snapshot felt earlier in the more you see them the more realistic they get and the more I could see them. Turning into some pre nefarious ways of mapping people's faces and making you look like someone else entirely and making it not just a silly, mustache, but totally believable la dapple, gang yeah, and we ve seen look visual the is a tale is old, is journalism we ve seen doctored photos aplenty purporting to be evidence of your phone giant skeletons goes and We have a species have known for a long time that photos can be faked. Some with a handy knack for photoshop, Paul, really work wonders and now my case, we ve got up. Yonder touch. Ups of still image

have you seen that doctors that they don't want you to know I'm logo or some something fishy gone on that hand suspicious, indeed, by again no spoilers reg If you're wondering fans of west world, yes, that maize is for you as the urge reported in july of last year. Twenty seventeen were, according to twenty eighteen july, researchers at the university of war, Clinton, invented a tool that takes audio files, converge them to realistic mouth movements and then graphs, though onto existing video. The end result This is someone saying something or appearing to say something that they never actually said. The scary part, is it's really convincing? It's not like mean level give food me a lot of their earlier examples used footage of former president barack Obama. Did you see this stuff will do there? And I know I keep harping on this, but there was a Barack obama snapchat filter and it it does have

that uncanny valley look but first of all problematic. You know, for a lot of reasons, sure to to put on the the visage of someone. That's a different race than you and the character, and you know I'm just snapchat users were using. What wasn't you literally a snapshot of is also another one. That was a bob marley you now with like, but but pretty damn realistic other then there's things they probably did on purpose to make it less realistic, but that kind of map- quality that you're talking about the implications, their natty yeah and luckily for it I just got scooped out. We have some good good news here. First, they didn't just choose Barack Obama, because they had some sort of ideas logical thing, or they were like we like this guy or we hate this guy or anything. They did it because a high profile, individual, like a celebrity or president will have

time more high quality, video and audio footage. The pool from and also this is this thing takes its a huge attrition process I had to have at least seventeen hours of footage just to get started and base so there's another neural net kind of learning, vaguely learning son. So this is a problem. They say that their goals are wholly good. Hearted got a clue, you're the team behind the work say they hope it could be used to improve video chat tools like skype. Users could collect footage of themselves speaking use use it to train the software and then, when they need to talk to someone, video on their side would be generated automatically just use in their voice. This would help in situ. Since, where someone's internet is shaky or if they're trying to save mobile data, but that's what google saying about

plex is just a nifty le handy dandy tool down you book, your hair appointments, so you don't have to talk to people on the phone. They never talk about the year exactly and this would we can't we can't ascribe motive. We can't see these people are lying to you, but we can say that this sort of technology is a pandora's jar and once that lydia screw. There's. No. there is absolutely no realistic way to prevent both the spread of these faked segments. And this head of things being accused unjustly fake segments. This this poses Some inherent dangers for journalism. We already see how easily completely fake story can proliferate on facebook. I'm a bot generated store yeah. I'm lay utterly and a I'd generated twitter account for ample that can mimic the style of some one of the particular ology or whatever the

there is another aspect. Ever there's an article from the information dot com, Google's controversial voice assistant could talk its way into call centres because, like we're saying earlier, if you, if you get an automated voice the phone. You know it's not going to be actually very helpful at all you're, probably just going to blast past it, and they know that- and there are a lot of people that have their jobs being that person. Then it gets passed off to so. If there were a more successful voice, recognition and communication tool like this, it could put a lot of people out of jobs. That's a very good point. It could get us. closer to not the post work economy, but the posts worker economy and up to now we ve talked about these. Two forms of impersonation is screen, indifferent things right, audio on one side, video on another, but what if they become combined, would have a digital, impersonation of a human being then you know- or even you, Paul or even me- critics

online with no one, but you and the people you meet in person. Knowing the difference I mean, let's think about it, would sound like us. It would look like us and if, pulled from our online data footprint It would also know a lot of stuff about us, including the relationships we already have with other people and how interact with them. So it's possible, for instance, that of fake version of matt, frederick rights to us from Massachusetts were foreshadowing and responds to the three of us. The way that the real matt wood and we would know the difference we send a weird mean, isn't thumbs up and doing our inside jokes and you would already know all of those. I must be honest. I'm in a lot of times, text, conversation and email conversations are already kind of in shorthand or in some kind of a little bit more terse, not mean, but just kind of like we're trying to get it done. That's how I depend on that method of communication over talking, because it's a lot more boom boom boom. Let's get it done

move on, I would think it would be easy issue for an eye to mimic those kinds of, exchanges and not raise a red flag for you, or I that's a great point because even They get something wrong. We would just think oh matt must be in a hurry, typo or you know, fat finger whatever and or auto correct, auto correct exactly like I've. I've I've sent texts unlike seen how mangled they were but be. Like. Oh you'll know what I mean yes, legalistic letter, yea. I because again it goes the time would be alarmist for us to say this would plausibly happened to the average person in the near future but for a high value target like a politician, a celebrity controversial business person and so on. It's completely within the realm of possibility in speaking of alarmist, open, wide the doors of science fiction and do a bit of speculation here completely unfounded. Imagine a world where the only communication you can trust becomes face to face in person

Imagine a world where you are accused of a crime you didn't commit, but you don't have a rock star our alibi of your activities at the time of the alleged crime and surprise, surprise they have you on camera, committing it and then confessing to it, and you cannot prove it is not you with this mean that eventually, video evidence becomes inadmissible in court. Does this technology pose an existential threat the fabric of digital reality is really us talking to you right now, yeah man, I don't even know it I don't know and into to answer your hypothetical question earlier yesterday, mrs absolutely a threat, and we rely on things like video evidence, but I could see far enough remove from this particular technological time and place. That could be something that is just a thing of the past and unity and yeah can you can

picture. Ella, I'm trying to think of an of an analogue of something that used to be infallible and now is a completely up for grabs. Like I dunno polygraphs, Yeah polygraphs. Exactly example er. I dunno. This is a little bit more of an ephemeral example, but even something like the press or like the news you know now we used to be able to depend on some level rigour and truth in any kind of news. Reporting easy and now, as you say, because of the internet we can see stuff is completely generated by artificial intelligence that tricks people all the time into believing that its You know, god's truth and it's insane so why? I wonder you. I have questions for you do you know, I don't wanna put you on the spot, but this is this. The only conversations we can know is actually happening between us right. I mean we are sitting here looking at each other in the eyes of the art indefinitely, both human.

Because, as far as I know, we don't have human standards that are believable and after the trick either one of its taken terminator the first ones. You could tell the difference re so was so. What do I do? You have any thoughts on the likelihood of this kind of technology, progressing or being used to disrupt the spread of reliable information? Do you think it's a definite? Do you think it might happen? Do you think it's a little bit sensationalist? It I think I I think it absolutely could happen. I think it's another one of those things that are kind of an out dangled out there like a piece of bade on a fishing hook for the american consumer to buy. Onto and in bio this'll changed my life for the better. This will make it so easy for me to not have to make her appointment serb schedule, with oil changes are what have you and then you, you know once the by in happens. Then it started and opens that pandora's jarley you keep talkin about, so you know

no doubt about it: the more access we give our devices and the more central as our information is- and I guess, by central as it is mean within a particular service where it had access to all of it. Yes, that's what it that's what it takes right, what is SIRI suck okay license. I was want This is a rag on apple for him. It yeah siri is not a good personal assistant because it doesn't learn, it doesn't keep track what you say in starting from scratch. Every time you ask a question right. This is siri apples, personal system, which is one of the first ones, to hit the market but fizzled ridiculously because of google's and amazon like says that, because those actually learn and are connected to the internet and learn your vocal patterns and learn your preferences and have access to that bigger network, whereas siri is just kind of dumb, it doesn't really do

that he can tell you stuff about apple. He could tell you a lot of stuff about the history of the company and it can do google searches for you, but if you say, hey SIRI, what time is this movie it'll? Probably give you some tangentially related answers, but not the exact answer you want time was invented shortly after the big bang, as I siri tommy a joke, that's always fun, but no, but google assistance will do that because it learns your habits and figures out what kinds of questions your asking. So that's what I'm saying? start getting into that. Where we're tapped into this larger network, it does seem like a slippery slope, but yet people, even the most paranoid of my friends. Some of them are all about these home assistants. In this competition we always have where it's like I'll give it up. If I,

terrible box to turn on my lights. For me, I was given one of those things in a plug in when I'm cooking and unplug it afterwards. So it probably thinks that I am always cooking or just don't have power. My house, which I'm fine with, but we want. hear from you assuming again to the earlier question? Is really us talking to you now? What would you like to tell us where the robot versions of us impersonating the biological versions of us to have a home assistant? Do you by you who's this facial recognition, software that is so often market? It is a free the recreational pursuit. Do you believe that the future will be fraught with the thing They make us question digital reality. Is there way to combat it. Should there be? Ah, you can find us on in graham, you can find some facebook. You can find us on twitter if some version of us I feel like now,

we have to say you can find some version of us on there are. You can also, of course, visit our one of our favorite places on the internet, our facebook, page, here's where it gets crazy? Where you can see me no and I well, what are we do there? Where, on the internet, here's where it great all kinds of stuff lurk, sometimes sometimes we he responded hop around in the threads and postpone little gifts, eames and have a good time, and there is a lot of fun and if the end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact thus, in a number of different ways, one of the best just to give us a call or numbers one. Eight, three, three s t d, w whitey k. If you don't want to do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. We are concerned, for she at I hope, radio dot com stuff They don't want. You to know is the production of a heart radio, for more podcast from my heart radio

visit the I hurt radio ep apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite, shows. this episode of stuff- they don't want you to know, is brought you by top. Get tomcat makes rat snap traps and other road control products, so they wanted share a little rat history with us. Did you know back in the fourteenth century, flee ridden rats, helped spread the black death wiping out a third of europe's population? and during world war one soldiers in the trenches had to contend with massive rats. These rats spread diseases and added to the intense psychological stresses of the soldiers now enter tomcat, rowan control them modern solution to an age old problem, ensure history doesn't repeat itself in your home. Tomcat kills and prevents at massage envy self care, isn't a luxury, it's a necessity. So oh you're doing so much for everyone else. Make sure to make time for yourself like up.

fashion, massage our facial customize. Just for you, it's all part of creating the perfect self care routine. You can stick to em love when it's time to put yourself. First visit your local, massage envy, franchise, location or book. An appointment today Massage envied outcome, massage envy, where better begins, make it a clean sweep this black friday with incredible deals on state of the art, robber, rock vacuums, kathy Alan one q, riva we're just six. Seventy nine, ninety, nine or the seven max I'll try with robo rocks best features for nine forty, nine. Ninety nine andy ass saint profile has it all for eleven. Ninety nine, ninety nine. But these deals mom gather dust. There only eleven november. Twenty three thirty eight at roma rocked outcome and amazon dot com. This they see as work on setting comedy tickets. Great your wish live nation that judgment

dozens of shows Saint Louis chelsea, handler delta jonas brothers. Look it's on the black! Now boy, demographic ammo design, it david shells and send a helpful hints of landmines has ever been. is he to get what you want an unbroken one night out with your favorite artists. Great your wish list today. My vision that comes last wish list