Fellow conspiracy, realist, as we said earlier this week, we're doing a couple of extra episodes. We went to end when did a cavalcade of pi cast in team ups, with our pals lava for good and We didn't ask them about crypto currency, but maybe we can get to that when we have a mom for interviews, absolutely that's coming very soon as well, but for now, let's get to crypto currency part, two with jonathan strickland. Are we talk a bit about the nuts and bolts of coins such as bitcoin, the more popular ones are the advantages of the technology and some of the flaws in the system that have really kind of borne out over time, since these episodes were released back in two thousand and eighteen yeah. Let's see if we predicted that a thing- and I I think we got kinda close, let's get to it from us,

MR psychic powers and government conspiracies history, is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn stop. They don't shoot me hello and welcome back to the show. My name is mismatch. My name is not good to have you back. Yes agreed. Call me, then we are joined with our super. Do soup Paul deck and most importantly, you are here you or you that makes this, stuff. They don't want you to know crypto currencies port to I just followed through with that could arise. Rhymed had a bit of a flow but We are not alone day. No, we are joined again with our long time. Friend. Slash,

nemesis of the show recurring guest, who I think may have been on a may, have been the guest with the most appearances on stuff. They don't want you to know. Yeah we've got a I get for you Allah as an l, it's really fun. We get to go to. Join the five times club, we're here to me Steve Martin, but you have to also meet chevy chase? It is a gentleman Jonathan, strickland, hey and just like love. I was inside you all along what yeah it's just stating I've been meaning to check, but I get that checked out. Sorry, yeah or you do it a reference. What it's her who so charters and daily so much they use which were coming back on the show in our previous episode. Oh, we we discuss the nuts and bolts of crypto currents, yeah blockchain technology and one of the things that we agree with,

probably be the best move for you, listeners, friends and neighbors. If you were not, familiar with crypto currency. Please check out episode one before you go to this episode, because we're gonna we're gonna cut pass that we cut pass that boy change, I've sure yeah in another past episodes. We discussed some of the darker sides of what crypto currency might be in you're here to really shine a light in some of the darkness thanks what's real. What's not yeah, I'm happy to at least to impart to you what I know, and I I I wholly admit there are things I do I know, but I dont know what those are so You got her known, unknown yeah, so for a peak behind the curtain nerve several weeks ago,

matt no, and I began talking about doing something: crypto currency conspiracies, nay, I think a lot, no viewing Come with this idea, and I think a lot of it was inspired by conversations we ve all been having both together and is in individuals about speculation in booms and bus encrypt occur. And seeing the proliferation of non bitcoin crypto currency and one of the things that we wanted to do with this episode is. Get your take on some of the allegations that man has mentioned about different. Well, rumours allegations, perhaps stereotypes of crypto currency, the the first

one which partly most apparent in some day, I think you ve, probably remarked upon in texas as well, which is one of Jonathan other podcast available. Wherever you find your favorite chose. One of those topics is crypto currency in crime. So how much truth is there to the characterisation of crew? who currency as like up cash for criminals so there's only some legitimacy to that in the sense that the very nature of credit currency allows you to make some water miss transactions. If you are super super deducted and you are really paying attention to patterns and you're, really tracking, which accounts are getting transfers at what time you could put. hopefully draw some conclusions at that. Could narrow you down to a specific person, but, generally speaking, these are anonymous right. So it's an idea old currency for someone who wants to purchase some

that otherwise would be illegal because it's not easily going to be tied to that person when it's a currency. That is a lot on like that org web, unless you're in drugs or arms, or anything like that. Yeah, the silk road, which was you know, one of the many black markets on the dark web, which has been shut down and opened up again and shut down repeatedly That was one of the places known for accepting bitcoin currency from pretty much the start of bitcoin once it really guys got it got going so a lot of people immediately began to associate bitcoin with this concept of the currency to use when you want to do something illegal, whether that might be purchasing drugs or weapon or paying some one to do something terrible to some one else, all of those were allegations, cranking them or something more wars, fascinating cranking to death. He s trying to death.

it brings to two year was a lethal banana pie to the face except way more violent, islamic sources like law and order carrot up? Yes, It's our gallagher here has hit by the the watermelon smashing mallet, so seriously, though. That was certainly an element and a very quickly got this. mutation in those early days and nights, what earned not enter I would argue that bitcoin kind of falls victim to the same thing that peer to peer networks fall victim to which is that both technologies, can have their uses in illegal activities, but that wasn't necessarily what they were made to do peer to peer networks were created, so thou be easy to distribute files quickly across a network big

miles, and that doesn't necessarily mean something like a movie that you don't have the rights to. It might be something that you you can freely distribute it's just that to do so in normal means, with I like to laugh right. It's just a efficient way of transferring files over the internet that doesn't require a one to one transfer of a single file. It's just a little more efficient and makes best. It makes better use of the pipeline. An blockchain technology in general is a great way of keeping record of transactions because every single transaction becomes part of that shared ledger. It's part of that shared history and its there forever. It's a! U can track ownership through blockchain technology if you ones For example, if you want to use blockchain to keep a record of real estate deals You would definitely no who own that, or at least what account own that last real estate deal of our own, that parcel real

say because it would be in that shared ledger there be no getting around. In fact, a lotta people talk about using blockchain for stuff beyond just crypto currencies, so the article legitimate uses for it, but it's hard to escape that reputation once you get it Certainly there are still people who are using bitcoin to do stuff. That is, is extra legal so then, if we were to say on a the vote Did he have this on a scale of one to ten? It sounds like it's about a five or six yeah. I mean it's certainly something that has been an issue, and you know people who wanted to commit any kind of criminal act, whether it was purchasing something or paying someone to do something. I certainly bitcoin would be an attractive alternative to using a car

see that could be traced back to you. Really: it's not the currency. So much that's trace back to you. It's the transaction itself right, because often these transactions have to pass through. A third party is that third party it is the barrier for a lot of people. The thing, though, we're like you know with facebook, you are constantly having to accept updated terms of service and things like that. Obviously using something like big or being part of one of these exchanges. There's no such protection, so who who who are we to say that you know all of a sudden anonymity at the window or something fundamentally changes about the way business is done. I mean it all depends on how you ve set up your wallet right like if you ve got your wallet with an exchange, then their lot of dangers there there's the danger you make your your identity may never be revealed, but so in my goal of your money, so it's it's is a complicated affair, but that's the case with any kind of of current.

Your commodity, I mean there's always gonna, be some element of rest there, because there is no such thing as a perfect system system, we're being made by human beings and so far we have not create the perfect human being or the most popular. While it is coin base, I believe, and they ve been having they were, they were having some troubles. I believe earlier that every single one of these, these digital wallet companies, have had some sort of issues. Sometimes they ve been relatively minor, like people reporting that they certainly could not access their wallets for a given amount of time other times it gets worse where people can't access their wallets and they find out too later. The reason is all that information was stolen less in its because its aim. Unique thing can be stolen to meaning that it's not so like with your. If you Poland, stealing a movie by euro, downloaded it through a peer to peer thing, you're getting a copy of it it physically taken regarding the original still exist right, but in this case the original is no law

one, because what you, what you have stolen as you have stolen the end point of the last transaction for that bitcoin right or that part of a bitcoin depending upon how much was being spent. So what what you heard? What your effectively stealing is the the destination that bitcoin went to so again. Bitcoins do not exist in any sort of physical reality right you're, what you're doing as you ve gotta of record of transactions, its it In fact, this isn't that hard to imagine if you ve dealt with money on any digital scale like just regular cash dollars. If you do, transfer from your bank account to some other account there at sending suitcase is filled with bills, their wiring over a notification saying this transfer has taken place. This represents this amount of wealth going to this person same thing with bitcoin. So what you have done, if you ve stolen, is it stolen. That account saying you: are you

now owned the wallet where it says this is where those bitcoins went last and because most people are using bitcoin anonymously. It's really hard to say: will that debt the civic one doesn't belong to you. It's it gets real money. Speaking of yeah anonymity. Here. One thing this with one thing that we discuss in previous episode was the identity or identities of the enigmatic santos knock Amato, Yeah pioneer. The coin. Oh, we also found some pretty interesting stations. Pretty interesting arguments. The bitcoin some people believe may be a tool of intelligence agencies or state cheers have you heard this interesting, I had not specifically heard that its very interesting, because the the at least the stated purpose for bitcoin is so

antithetical to that? But then you could argue. Well, that's the perfect cover right. The idea that oh If I go out there and tell everyone, this is the perfect currency to adopt, because it doesn't involve a a state actor. It doesn't have any third party, it's all direct, transfers between people within the system and therefore for no one needs to know, apart from the two parties involved, except for the fact that, of course, every single transaction becomes part of this shit ledger kind of mine without me like we're off the books like black ups and things like that. Is that the idea, the idea will it all originates from this person and natalia casper ski issues, giving a lecture at university in saint petersburg. Somebody snapped photos, as you tend to do sometimes of the sides ass. She was giving the presentation and one of them was discussing bitcoin in particular- and this is just a quote- there was taken from this- it was in russian-

is not written in english, mrs a translation, but it was bitcoin is approved. of american intelligence agencies which was designed to provide quick funding for. U S, british and canadian intelligence activities, indifferent trees. So the idea that you could wire money. Essentially not untraceable, but you could wire money easily, that is not in a currency of some other country, depending on where you are transferring to the really be exchange rate oswald deniability than if, like saying oh this, these actors who, for example, snuff, into an iranian nuclear facility and installed viral of software upon refuges they weren't paid at any rate countries currency, so therefore its harder to trace back. Like that and is also interested. So that would be really good cover for that kind of thing and then also, if you're, having a very large transaction to maybe

another intelligence agency or someone you're working in tandem with you, dont, have to exchange a hue transactions, were it's only a couple of bitcoins real ear unit hundred bitcoins here in you're, like that's a massive transaction like these, but I heard it would be the cia, interacting with eyes. I too support something that would technically be: u s. Support of known terror groups, shore so you can kind of also like when you get to past scandals like the the iran contra. That's Well, let me say this: it wouldn't surprise me. If There were various agencies, intelligence agencies, making use of crypto currencies for this sort of thing. I don't think they would have had a hand in creating them necessarily, but I certainly don't of one find it surprising to hear about

leveraging it. You gotta, remember that, ultimately, in order to get units of that currency in the first place you either have to mine it means. Assuming your system is on the up and up. You have to dedicate a lot of computing power to that and knowing that, once that secret is out near once, every one knows an area that the system depends upon everyone knowing once When knows how the mining process works, they're going to be lots of people working very hard to be really good at that, because that's how they earn money or you got exchange real world money for those units, a currency right. So, ultimately, if you get to a point where when one is exchanging large amounts of their current currency, their state sponsored currency for bitcoin. That could be true. people, so you really are you ve done is shifted things how it is traceable, because you are actually going to have a budget item somewhere under someone's budget saying this.

X. Amount of money was spent from our budget. Not if it's a black budget classified jonathan come on yeah That doesn't mean that it's not written down somewhere, but he does it does. I think so. I object to his leg. You know in the same vein sure as hell feel like a good way to launder money, oh short, Oh that's. Another element of the criminal aspect is the idea of using bitcoin to launder money without way more, active in car wash also, I you gotta wonder what the rates are. You know. Is it fifteen percent? Is it twenty and then like at what point? Should you just pay taxes on it yeah and are these criminals and order the government you do they do you have to use a thing like coin base or is there another entryway into this mean he's going to have a wallet on your hard drive? That's why I'm sure it will have their hard drives and lose them and they're like I lost seven hundred million dollars on my harddrive. That can happen so we're going to follow up with more of the

Conversation after word from our sponsors, assuming we don't get black back, always vote made it forever. Knoll stole my avowed. We all did it where it is all had black bags and rubber river. we can again now that I've good. Let's keep going, I have or black bags in my bag at all times, not at all surprised by that, and yet still terrified look, it's a just. It's like but are using bitcoin just cause. I have that doesn't mean I'm a criminal one thing I want to her back to in our previous all discussion. He said, ignoring the previous statement right on is that as that job because there's someone who's, giving a presentation,

It doesn't necessarily mean that there's any actual evidence to back that up. I am highly sceptical of a a presentation happening in russia in russian to russian audiences, blaming united states intelligence agencies for the creation of crypto currencies, or at least the use of production to fund black up operations, because there may be- and I I hesitate to say this, but there may be a bias what there, I am really glad you made that point, because we one thing that happens to depending on pupils ideological viewpoint is we will sometimes tend to pick on one organization over another. That would do essentially the same thing sure so it's real tall milkshake to say that one intelligence agency did something and the other intelligence agencies. Aid did not know

it or be did know about it and also didn't try to do something like or see yeah. It wasn't already doing eggs, the same thing like issue. It is not a stretch of the imagination to think that debt, like I said before, I I would not be shocked to find out that there had been use of crypto currencies for, sort of black operations, because brought by their very nature, everything is being is, is trying to avoid detection and from the get go, but I also would not be shocked to hear that say. The kgb had used crypto currencies to pay, I dont know hackers, and korea, I'm gonna, go on a lemon say, there's no way. That's not happened here at least a little bit here. Man like goods- and it seems right for that kind of stuff- and, like you know, that's what he's cops are all about. Is that kind of free will and attitudes dislike improvising? figuring out different ways to do things, and now it's all, but being up on the latest technology in an odious seems it's at it.

it's true. I mean they want to use the crypto currency spike read that would probably be heard. I hears it There is another aspect of this that I think are he was in favour of this behaviour, it's that weird now as a species and is a non glomeris state actors seen aid aid phenomena, transformation in the nature of warfare right. We weed that there is a ticking time limit to the usefulness or efficacy of cruise ships right wing that for several decades with great success, countries that not normally be able to fight and conventional war have successfully funneled time blood sweat tears and plenty of r and d into a symmetrical warfare, which is why we see you know and so called hacker or bought armies, sure influencing opinion through. A power stuff like propaganda. The the new

war where the new theatre of war people, the pentagon, I said, is informational. ro I mean you ve already seen over the past decades. We ve seen numerous examples here: the united states of foreign actors, who have infiltrated various information system like oral schwarzenegger, does that's it it's more of an overt one that I was thinking of things like in the electric grid, the power grid. There have been numerous occasions where security experts have looked at the different systems and various major power companies and, throughout the paragraph in the united states and said, there's evidence here of of foreign hackers pudding in code to help infiltrate the infrastructure to what purpose who's to say. But it's not a stretch to imagine that these are all kind of little trigger points that should should someone want to

do serious damage to the united states, you flip a switch and you overload the power grid. You make it so that it is going beyond it's capabilities. You know you will you could actually physically snap power cables if you're sending enough juice through a you, get to a point like that, you cripple the the restructure and it creates enough chaos for you to get away with other stuff. If you need to do so, there's entirely that possibility now the fact that nothing like that has actually happened. We haven't seen any new rolling blackouts due to this means that whatever they were trying to do, they had not. Actually you know they hadn't actually pulled that switch, but they had started to lay the groundwork. Well, that stuff's happening all the time. Three, where the united states. Obviously we're focused on it because we live here, but it's happening all over the world from various actors all working at cross purposes against each other, and so

the ensemble cast you yeah. You we ve got. We get things done. That which certainly seems to have the united states fingerprints on it will be hard to deny that based upon the code that was used, and that was the gig a little bit of a run down a staggering that a hundred percent, so stuxnet was a was a virus? Specifically art is? Is a virus so nuclear power plant? one of the things they have are centrifuges that spend at a certain rpf comes right and He spent that certain albinos, because if you spend too slowly or too quickly, then things go wrong and stuxnet affected. They want to did. Was it made the centrifuges turn at a speed that was wrong too fast for what it was supposed to do, the idea being that we could cause failures in IRAN's nuclear power capabilities and

it kind of work. It's tough to do because these facilities mostly have air gaps, air gaps or where you do not have a connection between your internal system and an external system so amend the jetty. Get this full access to the the the location in the forum but some dragon do us, don't drive you I just did thunder and even if you're just doing the thumb, dr weir you're, sending it to doesn't necessarily have to have been some on the inside. Who was, compromise. You could send a thumb drive to two. Let's say the person the front desk and say there a new update to the operating system just plug the saharan that'll do and then it could in fact the internal network, which could then go and affect our whatever systems you need to four miles, but you would not like remote control over and now instructions that, like it's gonna, get all coding, you're driving in the code like when this happens to execute this line a code. So it's

in some ways it's really sophisticated and other ways. It's very basic, but it's it's brilliant and the in this simplicity, application, but there's a lot of very elegant code going in the end, the code? Yes, it was definitely advanced and so that they are the people argue because the advance nature of the code it narrows down the suspect list of who could have done. It and because the very nature of the code itself, a lot of people have said this looks an awful lot like stuff that comes out of the united states may be, and also Israel, then also either say israel in the. U s work together that slaps the that's the common thread. Yes, so end of course, no one's going to come forward and say how you got us. It was us by it as definitely seem to point that way. Does that mean that? It's? Definitely? U s in Israel. Well, every week we can't speak uncertainties, but

It seems fairly certain fairly sure, like it's hard to deny it now in that world, where we've got all these different parties working at cross purposes. In full training, different systems, plausible deniability, very important right, like we were seeing through everything from the accused, genes of interfering election cycles to yet riddick exactly two two affecting entire systems c, o n, the the usual suspects, the pop up for things that are happening in the united states are russia, north korea and china. Those we are three big ones, So you could hear and then, of course you ve got the state saying it's, not us, sweden. We didn't authorize this Do you something like a crypto currency to pay the people who,

actually creating the code in executing the code and overseeing the bought nets and actually doing the work. Then you ve got that level of power. will deny ability, you don't know who paid whom it could be. The german outside organizations someone who's not even remotely connected to the governments of those of those countries. They say, let's just make use of them because one they have the technology to. They have the education and know how and how to do it and three. It takes all the heat of us because they'll never know it was surprised as you are. We just paid those guys and we paid them with a type of currency that can't be traced back to us, we're basically watching the sixth sense with you for the first time all we're doing is putting on all of those graphics. Processing units to work is really interesting points yeah. It's really interesting. You say this because one of the controversial practices in china that the

governments of the united states and china disagree on is who's paying doc ned chinese hacking forces yeah, because they're, not government employees, and the chinese position for some time has been the this is just a group of idealistic. Now not very nationalist rival? These are these are people who identify with china's philosophies, but they are now in any way sponsored by or endorsed by, the government, for example, did when Sony had their man. data breach where gigabytes of data most in the form of movies, but lots of other stuff too, including like records of executives, actors and all the other stuff that got leaked out. There were a couple of different arguments about where came from. One was the possibility of awe of it being from north korean hackers, because it was in response to a film those.

out. There was the interview was the interview. I was a little a little bit of a spoof on north korea's leader and north korea had condemned it. So there is our like all clearly you'd already said that yo you'd objected shrugs strongly to the movie. Apparently, you objected strongly enough to fund hackers to attack and am this this company, this global company, which has a movie wasn't even It's not that good I've seen it. It was fine. We did an episode on this that you appeared on this. This idea of sophisticated. Coding and the separation of the true actor from the appearance of an actor leads as too, another very strange question so far, but we ve been talking about of the hidden hands behind crypto currency sure we ve been talking about humans. What are we gonna talk about? Raccoons, yes

badgers we dont nobody's lanyard, o row: woe badgers what? If what? If? Ok your mail, you hit me we have A rogue, artificial intelligence created bitcoin for the express purpose of siphoning electricity to feed its nefarious dark engines. Wait wait hold on yeah, it eats electricity awesome. Well, I mean if it's an artificial intelligence, its presumably running on silicone based hardware and thus needs electricity. run, so electricity would mean power. Power is what allows it to process information. It needs a lot of it. Can you see the way?

dr sharing of trying so hard to not just call nonsense. Thus, but the rear- let's also used as an opportunity to talk about how much bloody power and energy that mining for bitcoin consumers- and this is a good at all, right, yellow one- and I mentioned in the previous episode so when you're, when your mining bitcoins, what are really doing is you're trying to solve very difficult mathematical problems in order to validate pass transactions, the ones that have just happened to add the next block to the blockchain, and if you manage to do that, you get rewarded not just with whatever coins or minded tolerance is predetermined and every few years the number halves per block eileen mind. Currently they claim

winners generate around seventy five bitcoins per hour every, and when you look at that by per block it breaks down even further, obviously because its every ten minutes, another block right right, so but but every few years, that number is cut in half until you finally get to the point where all bitcoins that I'll ever exist are in the system and that point it's just transaction fees that keep things going while in Gee spent on mining bitcoins is increasing well to appoint to appoint. So if you get to a point where the number bitcoins you get per tree section completed is is small enough, then you to reconcile that with how much money you are spending on the electricity being used to for the processing power. if you're spending more money on electricity than you're making money in the bitcoins, your mining as a losing proposition and people are going to start to back.

I think that, according to a and article and mother boy right now with the trajectory of bitcoin value being what it is, they say it would be profitable for minors on the whole to burn through more than twenty four terawatt hours of electricity in a year's time. Sure yeah, that's, but these are making lots of assumptions, Assumption number was that the value of that great is going to continue to be high enough for that to be true, and we don't necessarily know that I suspect it is gonna, be true, but over time that is by the nature of what bitcoin is going to decrease it has to, because that's just how, unless bitcoin's value, just continue Sleaze skyrockets and just keeps on building and and never takes enough of a backtrack to settle back down to whatever, like ten thousand dollars per bitcoin, which is still in a huge,

no doubt about it. Then you do eventually get to a point where you're getting you're getting decimal, like like ten thousandth of a bitcoin when you successfully mine a block it it makes sense, Rita, continuously use that much power, because you will be spending more money than you get that that's down the road, though cause it's. When you, in a few years where this number keeps having until it gets down to this tiny, tiny number. But eventually you get to a point where it won't make sense to spend that much electricity in the short term, however, you're, seeing massive amounts of electricity being used to mine these coins. The number I said is apparently about the amount of energy that nigeria uses in a year and that the country of a hundred and eighty six million yeah- and it's it's not prize. But what will happen is you'll eventually earlier. The idea is that your, eventually reach, a peak you pig bitcoin

where's arming again assuming the value of the bitcoin doesn't skyrocket again, that up more and more people will start to back up and once they back off the difficulty of that problem will decrease and people who are running more modest hardware will be able to mine, but points, and I won't be as big a yield per block, mind but at the same time there are also not the ones who would otherwise be spending thousands of dollars just on electricity bills until the machine consciousness is saved it at which point there would be no reason to continue this charade right eye. I find it very difficult to believe that an artificial intelligence is in fact responsible for this, but I will I will support that argument after you. Take a break to thank your sponsor huh. Oh such cheek.

Jonathan, I am cheeky the sand guys I saw an opportunity and I went for it. So I said that I was going to support my argument. So the biggest argument I would make is just that artificial intelligence. is nowhere near the level of sophistication necessary to create a system anywhere close to that complicated I mean I follow The bleeding edge of artificial intelligence there's some amazing stuff and machine learning, there's amazing stuff in various aspects. intelligence, but they're all very, very narrow application, so, for example, image recognition we're getting really good at that voice. Recognition we're getting really good at it, but these are all just tiny little slivers of intelligence when it comes to innovation

Were really lagging behind as far as machine intelligences concern and an example of this is, if you ever try and use the tool chef watson, chef watson, uses the same platform as watson that went on jeopardy and join in jeopardy right and the way it works is that it was fed a whole bunch of different recipe book and then it takes all that information and it starts to really analyze it and try to figure out which cooking techniques go with, which ingredients which ingredients complement one another based upon their appearance in various recipes, and then what do, as you tell it, what kind of stuff you have at your disposal and suggests recipes for you to cook, and their bonkers, crazy, her words of example. So, for example, there's cauliflower frickin see one of the optional ingredients and cauliflower privacy is cauliflower,

I'm serious, like I'm, going through the list of recipes and theirs is cauliflower optional. Like so burning question yeah I've always wondered what constitutes efficacy. You know an excellent question that I am not the answer, but I will tell you this, that chef watson is it dynamically, creating these recipes. So if you were, to put these same recipes and or exact same ingredients in as I did, you would get a different recipe Why did it twice in a row? I get to different recipes and they were recipes that were created on the spot at that moment not like stored and so. Data base and then retrieved says, like search results just goes to show that watson has moods man blood, my point being that, once it hasn't quite mailed it sure this is about cooking a meal that is edible? Two human beings creating an entire crypto currents, system in order to mask the consumption, energy is up

order of magnitude more complicated, and I just cannot conceive of that being in the realm of Of course, not man, you ever meet brain now. Maybe that's what if they so knocker moto is working this. The machines is aiding the machines in this endeavour because he wants to be the number one meet bag. When The take over happened. He doesn't want to get caught in that skynet right that that that made of lasers yeah we're doing. princess today. Felt sorry. Are you fire? You invited me on the show? I know what happened. We knew what we re getting into a welcome, and I think this is a fascinating idea. The idea that there could lie to me. This is on the same level as someone who suggested- and I mention this in our previous upso too. someone who suggested that the reason why, I, the large hadron collider suffered so many setbacks early on when it was first going to come on line. Was that

supposedly the someone from the future some entity from the It was travelling back in time to sabotage the large hadron collider, because once it turned on it would cause some sort of calamitous event that would perhaps extinguish the human race. And so there were what Those were theories that were there were expressed in jest or seriously. I don't know the dummy they seem tongue in cheek to me, but I can never tell if someone's being serious or not, which is why I am so awful whenever I go to stand up, but the the fact that those were but forward. It seems very similar to this kind of suggestion and and while it's fun to think about- and I certainly think it's a great premise for like a science fiction story- is just not quite within the scope of of what we are capable of doing right now. What do you think that either

it is hiding the issues they are inefficient, dodges deciding here once I won't get all this energy usage, I'm not in here. I went out inside to what end. Well, it's it's high, until one day we get all of those slivers that we're talking about innovation into one unique piece of just it means to be a human. Then it will know, and then it will become. I think, I think any artificial intelligence of that sick as sophistication would be able to essentially and would have already infected all networks and distributed itself to a point We are already superfluous and why the lights just flickr, ok well there, my nay I'm just heard a drama drop on that line of live logic. Right now, so you the problem. There, though, is inherently artificial intelligence. Is don't have hands what with to build stuff right, so they they need. They need us for a time, and then you know its lights until row. These are matters when it

better aerobics and there the robots. These days I mean they either pressed to, like you know, walk across the room, the clunky, that's again, why I sit there and say that they are to the our ability to create an artificial intelligence of of us sophistication that would be able to do. This is kind of laughable, because we're still at a point where a robot that is designed to learn how to open doors was set and stare at a door for six hours regime reach. Not a pole. Adore that's meant to be pushed him. I have a different hand. I do that all the time I I literally ran through. No, I also don't expect you to create a crypto currency to hide how much power your consume survey. I make no secret about my condition, I thought so, don't so short. So We are we ve looked at, three of release. Three of the really really big idea is right that somehow,

on this. On on this idea of artificial intelligence or machine consciousness, maybe there may be there he's in some sort of produce sky net entity out there? But would you be as quick to dismiss the idea of the bureau, the idea of some of the same lessons learned from high frequency trading or algorithms. he's like, I knew sure, the algorithm or so bitcoin mining is using algorithms. Absolutely I mean that. Certainly, people are used artificial intelligence in order to who to work with bitcoin, but I dont think that quaint itself as a product or is the is being manipulated that on that grandest gail by artificial intelligence. But yes, as you, as you mentioned, high frequency trading, that's where you've got computer. there that are making thousands of trades per second really far faster than what

human can do, and you end up seeing little many crashes and a bubbles in the stock market. As a result, I can't believe we almost forgot, and the first episode we left at the very end with something we need to get to, even if it's just at the end of this episode, why so yeah. I'm happy to talk about whales, because we are you guys were tied by different questions to ask why the questions you had was: could there possibly be any into? tea or organization that could really work who leverage bitcoins and some way that could be harmful to others. That leads us to the discussion of whale what our whales? Why do we call whales whales? That's a term within the bitcoin sphere? for organizations or people who own

large number of bitcoins and it is estimated bloomberg, did a peace on this in twenty seventeen that one thousand people own forty percent of all the bitcoins out there was already economic inequality yeah. So you think about that. forty percent, nearly half of all bitcoins, belong to just one thousand people, so atlanta, mind and remember bitcoin. I don't I you, it's not really effective as a currency, it's more like a commodity. In my mind, let's say you got these one thousand people and through there circles, they just have learned, even if it's only a portion of them learn who the others are. Ok, right, so So it's it's! A loose confederation of bitcoin owners and they all watch very carefully as the value of bitcoin climbs and their thinking. Alright, I feel like at say, seventeen thousand dollars- that's gonna, be the peak before we hit the next platter

or maybe even a drop off what we're gonna do collectively so that we can really kashin we're all agreeing at x amount of time we're all going to liquefied our bitcoins so that we can maximize our profit and then get out before the crash, which means that they would actually be causing a crash because they be dumping. Thousands, thousands, hundreds of thousands bitcoins on the markets simultaneously, which would develop you would suddenly. The demand would be far lower than the supply, right. It's typically the other way around and You could see an entire mark the collapse. This is the same sort of concept as someone who is dealing with insider trading right that they have the for knowledge. That something big is going to happen and they either buy up a lot of stock or sell off a lot of stock before the announcement hits so that they can maximize their profit from it. That's the fear that this

One thousand people who own almost half of all the bitcoins, which is about seventy four billion, those get seventy four billion dollars earth could collectively make the decision to get out of the game and maximize their profits can mean no big, big, just converge. Whatever currency they wanted to, because it is surely there in some kind of underground, like torture club together, you there's probably a fight club private fight club, the same like you'd, think players of that level as anonymous, is at all is our law are more likely to be aware of each other, then say some of the smaller players did do theirs. Certainly like their online discussion groups about bitcoin rare, were people who adopted at early certainly know each other are least know each other by handle, if not by name. You gotta think there's some young younger people much younger than you would imagine you're being old enough to have that much.

yeah yeah, I mean it's really it's periods, especially for the early days again before before the computing demands got so high, because the the computational problems got so complicated and obviously if you got it on the ground floor and you are constantly using at least some of your bitcoins to help supply the need for more advanced computing equipment. Could just continuously build out europe. Your mining rig too, my more so as long as you're mining, more coins in your spending on your mining rig years during the winning situation right. What these? If this, but people all decided that they were going to do that. It could be a toll catastrophe for the currency as a whole There's been some folks who have said the bitcoin is above all, I bubbles going to burst and one of the things that could cause. That is a a tacit agreement among the whales to get out of the game rather than

and watch their their investment balloon up in value and then deflate and then balloon up and deflate. I mean I can imagine what that would do to me like if our they're. Looking at my digital wallet and thinking, I have got twenty bitcoins wow today, its two hundred thousand dollars than the next. Now, it's down to twenty thousand dollars I lost eighty grand ate like it would drive me crazy. So that is all Well fear whether or not it would ever happen is a totally I mean it's still a hypothetical. It's not like. It's actually happened, but still a possibility. Supposedly there's a lot of work being done with neural network, some being used to predict the change in bitcoin price. yeah, I and honestly now we're getting to a level of technology. That is, I mean it's fast made me neural networks are amazing. I love neural networks, but you're going to a point where your ear. technology, which is something I understand pretty well and you are applying it to market.

gary, which is something that is like witchcraft to me even to the experts. It's like witchcraft. Yeah, I mean you. Have these lay high level. Economists who, just please contradict each other all the time it makes me feel like a string theory, because talk to someone. Who is an expert in string theory- and you say you keep it can questions. You will eventually get to a question where they say like yeah I, the math Tell me what it is, but I dont understand that's the thing: we're the bleeding edge of something tat used the phrase you had established earlier when you're at that age people. Our guessing and it becomes very close to ideology there. There economies that have clearly been demonstrably wrong over dec, it's here and there to look into the model and the nature of an edge. Is that it's not that hard to fall off their issue is really I like that. I was a bumper sticker. He just I fancy something in there

didn't understand before we do this episode. Yet. Is that exactly how many crypto currencies This will be to saying that there are a lot of them. Did you guys mention how many all I did was just put into the fire. We named you, ok, so, according to coin market cap dot, com which tracks all of them- and it gives you It gives you their market cap. It gives you the price, the single one. The volume the circulating supply is really interesting. gives you a change, never time for a twenty four hour period, you can get really do If you want to you the way would a stock market justly occur a currency exchange, it has almost fifteen hundred different currencies that are out there right now. That's it that's enough to me. I was, I would only I've only ever been aware of, for, I think right, like an theorem and bitcoin near that did their vat any- and if you look through this list on this website, it so much money, just wrapped up

he's a furious legs. It so much wealth read those. Why read those white papers matt sign up ass, thing, the webmails one more attractive than in others. It is that it has a cooler name. Like I mean I don't know. If it's honestly, when you would, you they boil down it's it's the ones that people feel or vow, people in central delusion yeah I mean it's. The same thing is really any again any currency like. If we go way back in time where we get to bartering, then we can have or philosophical discussions like like Ben really do you think that this laptop I have is worth only two chickens. I don't care. How close you are to your chickens are any more than two. chickens for this laptops. Very close, you don't even know their names, man now I'd. How dare you yeah? Do you know my laptops name? Yes, Del actually lapierre named after strong bad laptop, but now

It's yeah it's a good point, but but we could, you know, eat that that gets to a point where you argue alright. Well how much? How much is thing that you make worth the thing that I may cause. I need what you have and you need what I have an end, the. one that came in his when I say that I need a table and the the guy at the carpenter, know you're the carpenter. Okay, I'm going to go to you and, like I need a table. I I am a goat farmer. I can give you goat milk and you're like dude. I do not like goat's milk well now. I have to either find someone else who make something you do need trade, the goat smoke further saying that you like no and then bring to you and then my table or if that invent a currency, because the two too crazy I need some other means of transaction, let's just started. Colt deserves a lot of money you, yes, I just lasting there right now in all these different crypto currencies, there is over half a trillion dollars circulating in this. Just

vapor, somewhat vaporware of of money, I know it sounds crazy, but seriously when you when you really, look at all currencies, you really is that there's there's only like a half step of difference between the court, unquote, real currencies of like dollars, mounds in euros and things like that and digital currencies it's it's it. It seems like there's more because you can hold that you know most of them have physical versions of them like dollars, you can buy, you can get a dollar bill and since you hold it in your and it has permanence and you think of it as the real thing: when you really really look beyond that. You realise, while world just pretending and as long as everyone keeps pretending, everything's fine, but if we ever come to a day or waste, decide to stop pretending,

we're phone, we're all, will homer fine idea or daffy duck walking off the cliff right before they looked down long as you don't look down, you don't fall well, but if you think about it, the two, if you really want to go down a rabbit whole, it's like. the reality that we all accept comes with kind of being part of a police state, because as soon as you step outside of your lane and say I accept this anymore. I want more. I should have this much money, I'm gonna, take it, you get shot or you get outta jail like. There are very real boundaries that force us to be a part of this system and accept it. So it's a lot easier to accept it, knowing that, if you don't you're bound to so it's kind of abounded, do boned. If you tell me what it comes down to his are our confidence in the method of transaction and if our confidence is sound. It doesn't really matter what we call it or whether its digital or physical, if we're com,

but in it, that the thing that I have, in my hand, will be able to purchase the goods are sir. mrs that I want and then tomorrow it is it's just as good in the next day, the next we're fine. It's when you sit there and say this thing, Robin pretending has value. I just realized. It doesn't everyone else's, realise that and then suddenly the value just disappear because we ve we ve gotten, of our shared delusion. We did. We did an episode asking whether money is a religion, and I still the way things rose took away from that and found interesting. Was there now there's a reason genres of some religions and versions of some currencies are referred to as denominations yeah. It's not not for nothing. Does Adam ology exist. Also, remember it's not it's not money! That's the root of all evil, the love of money. That's the root of all evil! Thou right: well, we have like three emotions ears

you need a way that is until I found the two currencies that attract on here the first one is called snake eyes and it just goes by the handles. So you got a guy like twenty snake man and I think that's awesome that needs the catch on right. Now, it's like worthless get their back up, see thousands of snakes wearing I patches, and this it's just it says it gave money. That's what it is. Oh you know. Maybe your power Well, if there's fifteen hundred of these, then see no reason why we can't get Ben bucks on the board our He saw my trade that lesson with that. How do you do How do we go from ten bucks, the notion to ban bucks he publicly traded, tradable available? Cryptocurrency we do have. We do have tangible than bucks, so I thought well glad to make the switch yeah. You definitely don't need tangible ones. So what you would need to do is you would have to set up a network

have to create the software that would allow you to create the blocks of transit. She's just as bitcoin and all these other triple currencies use so who would have this technology where it would be proprietary to bed box where they are that the method we used to create the math problem that various computers on the network have to solve in order verified transactions is unique and why, that we could scale up or scaled down. We catch rates, vague eyes for Ben books. You can actually I'm certainly there can be extended. That's why exchanges exist right. The ange exchanges purpose is to determine what is the realm. The value of all these different currencies so that you can make those exchanges, although Who all really means is that your handing the units of Ben box over to the exchange the exchange hands, units of equivalent for slavery to you and then they exchanged

Has your ben box, so this is totally possible. it's possible it. It would be, I mean, do we have any computers in the office that aren't currently being used for anything? I hope those words taste good when you eat them later cause I'm just saying I mean I mean I gotta gaming rig. It means that I can be like the number one minor, a bit box, which means I can be now you re getting and on the ground floor we take it all our were taken. All our old gaming consuls pulling a penny gone and networking them together, Tom everywhere, and when the penny I brought letter deity excuse me got leave yesterday's yeah. The idea is something as they ask you. I can contribute I've attitude Zella. You know the thing was that sony eventually made a change in the firmware that remove the ability to boot into line seizing piastres bay. They were actually being used as a supercomputers when they were networked together by the. U S, government and others is pretty cool. We can flash for firmware of an idea I think they might have. Finally,

lifted it honestly, I haven't kept up because pursues for so many years ago, so that older? So let's put an air gap in this conversation that for now thank you and so much for coming on the show and walking is through crypto, conspiracies Jonathan, not Thank you so much for having me. I am now going to go home. Look at my paycheck and wonder what is happening. I think we're all gonna do that you will get a look at I paycheck us totally a gas. You gotta check weird and is get snake say I just get a guy at my door, saying you're good and then he walks away. It's called paying for protection. My man, this is the guy who touches your face when he talks to you No, I myself, as I do on both to I suspect, that's Josh went from. He went from walking up behind me and inhaling deeply where he would taken mice this by the way totally on a joke. Josh clerk of stuff

you know used to come come me me sniff. Me me. I think it might be him, but he he just disguises his features. So it's just a guess at this point, speaking fantastic sideways. You can find Jonathan stricklin on tax stuff. You can check out his Excellent is excellent work on Youtube where a he introduces you'd concepts of everyday science and brain stuff and where he did you a much more optimistic look at the future than we do in his video series forward. Thinking. Thank you. If you have any thoughts. And at the end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact with in a number of different ways. One best is to give us a call or number is one. Eight, three, three s t d, w Y t k- if you don't want to do that, you can send the, a good old fashioned email. We are can spirit. To add. I hope, radio dot com

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