Support for this episode comes from Chile type. Your staring your inbox waiting for a newly to confirm the time for their product Emma staring anyway waiting waiting, waiting, surely pie, paves the waiting there concierge tools built by marketers for people to know that speed to lead is the name of the game. It doubles inbound, conversions into leads in the meetings instant by eliminating the weight time between form filled and response. Turn meetings into leads instantly visit Chile, Piper Doc, slash box to learn more. That's chile, Piper Dotcom, Flash Box from CAFE, welcome to stay too I am preparing, so I'm a student of history and I realize that people had done really hard things to give me. The

opportunities that I had as white woman growing up in the nineteen fifty is, even though they were limited and continue to be limited for women. Ok, but I realized that people had suffered a lot for other groups as well, I'm not going to be something that just change two overnight, that's Brenda Bergman, in the fire department of the city of New York for twenty five years as a twenty nine year old She was the only named plaintive in historic class action, lawsuit that forced this to allow women into the FDA and why, for the first time, render Bergmann tells me a story of justice and personal perseverance how she went from being student at the N Y, you spools law to becoming one of the first forty women, firefighters in the cities, history he also toxic. How, after the first plane, hit the World Trade Centre on the morning of September eleven she rushed to the

yours, firehouse and joined the ranks of Europe's heroic first responders, but first, let's get your questions. That's coming up, say too. There are a lot Daily newspaper casts out there, but none of them are anything like today explained from vocs every day Sean, Robys, warm and team pick an essential new story that defines our moment. What makes the show stand out is how they tell that story listening to do explained is kind like calling up your smart really connected friend to help you process the big story. At the end of the day, it's all killer, no filler laugh cry was thin, but you'll walk away with a real understanding of, what's going on tomorrow, boxes as recline joint shant debrief on the third democratic debate, this is an episode you won't want to miss so subscribe to today explained for free right now to get this episode autumn.

click and understand the news. Every damn day I create Jody in Denver just read the article at other times about the informant longtime informant extract without Russia, somewhere safe here in Europe. I seen as anybody else concerned, or is it just me that chump would actually give the location of this informed that helped us all these years? What do you think? I love your show things by Jody in Denver. For that great question, which is a lot of people's minds and by the way since you're in Denver, you should think about coming to light show. Then I tell her twenty fourth with Shan and what we ve done. two questions and some of the craziest thing with respect to national security. Over the last Today's, instead of answering the questions myself, I'm gonna do one better, invited into the studio. My dear friend and stay tuned, Regular LISA, Monica

who serve any Obama White House, as you may recall, as assistant to the present for homeland security in counter terrorism, so LISA Least, some of these difficult questions that people of an ass and I ve been asking myself. Lisa effects are being where lifeline great to be here at last. in it. We called you and said, come on in an educator on some of these things and help us understand how bonkers they are, or maybe they're, not so, with respect to Joey's question all this reporting about the ex filtration, which is the term of american asset in Russia because of concerns about that asset safety, because in part of a worry that the president might not keep that thing a secret. What do you make of all that? Well, first, I should say I'm just reading the same public reports that you are in the Jody is she's right to be concerned, because if there is or was such an asset, meaning somebody who was working on behalf of the United States government too

our secrets and to help the United States. National security would be a really really important thing for the: U S: government, to have for our national security and the reports that were reading today and yesterday, frankly, really concerning to meet that were even reading about cause. Look. The press is doing job, and they should be doing that. But at some point in time somebody who was it seems trusted with: U S, national security secrets decided to disclose those and that's a problem, but the concerns expressed by Jody and others that I've read our spot on costs, person if they exist and if this reporting is believed to be true and again, I'm not confirming or denying any of it. But you find a credible while two things are true: pre one is this year put out a statement denying it, but the reports that I've read our sourcing to multiple current, a fish

rules mean and currently serving Trump administration officials directly involved? I think, is the words were used in these discussions and planning for this supposed extraction. So U way, those two things and its report that ought to be looked at very carefully is something that is worthy of congressional investigation. I think so, but a few different levels right a if this is true. This means that somebody who was in a position of trust disclosed information that was classified and if the other parts of the reporting are true that some of this,

and for this extraction was concerned by the intelligence community that this person's safety was a risk. I certainly think- and I suspect, the intelligence committees who, of course in Congress, operate with classified information and do a lot of their work. I think, appropriately in secret behind closed doors, you can bet they're looking into it hypothetically if there were certain extraction with that, in your view, rise to the level of the intelligence agencies having to give notification to the chair cows and vice chairs of intelligence committees of Congress when it happened. I would think so, as you know, cause you worked on the hill. The standard here is any significant intelligence activity and a move like this, I think, would probably qualify. Do you think that notification would have included

true that one of the bases for the extraction was a concern that the present of United States himself posed a threat of disclosure. If that was the case, I'm guessing that the intelligent committee would have potentially financed I think there might be other ways that the intelligence committee gets than information. I'd be skeptical that it would appear or in the formal notification right. I was wondering also who would be responsible for getting this information out now which were concerned about. Is it possible that its Congress? That's really, point again. The sourcing that I have seen says individuals directly involved in the extraction, so anybody's gas, but that tells me that those folks who have very good information about this supposed extraction but we think about the related reporting which, as the Donald Trump really doesn't like the idea of spying on our adversaries, people have been quoted as saying the present. Please. We shouldn't be doing that to each other, that the president believes those p

are selling out their country and so he's not into human intelligence on a scale of one to ten. How bonkers is that it's beyond bankers, and it's beyond bonkers, because These are individuals who are putting their lives on the line to help the United States are granted they're gonna have all sorts of motivation. Maybe they don't believe the policies of their own country? Maybe they have financial motivation. Maybe they want safety and safe passage and of different life for their family. They can have all sorts of motivations, but the point They are now working for the United States

in our national security interests that good for us, the intelligence community spend an incredible amount of resources and time developing these assets. So this report about this alleged russian asset, who was extracted people, should understand that person was likely decades in the make in terms of developing that source of information that incredibly important. To the United States national security. The other thing pre about this is this just seems to me in line with the president's hostility to the intelligence community right or you know, we are giving about a totally different context. We both share time and experiences prosecutors to, he also requiring witnessed exactly what did they say to all of a piece it in their it's in the same vein, and you have to gonna ask yourself Why one it? I think it betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of with the rule of law in the case of the intelligence Committee, with the role of an asset is it in the United States interest and in the press

pollution scenario, what the role of cooperating witnesses to help make cases to bring criminals to justice. So with regard to the end, just committee. This is all in a long line of hostility to the intelligence community right. The president's stood up next to Vladimir Putin questioned on foreign soil questioned him intelligence, community and favoured pollutants analysis. He has called the intelligence community, all manner of names. He says there, the deep state when these or career professionals working to protect the United States of America, so it is bonkers. It's me bonkers, but I guess I was not surprised ever wanted him. No, I used the same scale, a views previously, it's like the old phrase it goes to eleven. This is vital to this is vital to have examined so. Another thing happened this week: National Security adviser John, but the bidding and he believed fired resigned. so not everyone loved him alone. People on the demo, I didn't like him is a good thing that he's gone

abandoned his kind is Trump deserve credit for getting rid of this guy. So when I think this is the surprising news this week. Quite frankly, I mean that the right had been on the wall for a while. This is a national security adviser who was reported kept out of major meetings forget about being kept. that means these are meetings at the national security adviser usually calls and runs to the idea that he was invited to a major national security policy mean was affirmatively kept out of. It is again bonkers scale beyond bonkers right. Well, past ten. So this unsurprisingly contradicting the president and clearly he's not in alignment with the president good about your country. The whole thing is chaotic, so that bad for the country right, I dont subscribe to the view that Bolton might have been an adult in or might have been a moderating influence in the sense that he was not look

to double down with Kim Jong on on talks. He didn't want the Taliban to come to Camp David. I think the whole thing reveals basically the chaos theory of foreign policy. So that's not good for the country the one thing I do agree with in this may surprise: you pre is some of the supporters of the present have said: look the press, it deserves a national security adviser who he trusts and whose aligned with them I agree with the president is entitled to, an adviser, particularly one who served in the White House and disposed to be his closest foreign policy. Visor, isn't it to somebody who he trusts in is aligned with what I think with this reflects. Is there is no national security policy process ongoing right that has been completely turned upside down and is non existent and golden seems to have forgotten the number one rule of serving in the White House, which is your all staff. I said

in the White House, as you said, presents homeland skirting counterterrorism adviser. It's a little bit like what was in the situation and stay in the situation did morose another currently master the fact that all of these disputes have been spilling out. Certainly it's fun for folks to ff follow the back and forth and whose up in whose down and all the internal? affair, but it's not good for national security. But you do not the principle that a lot of people are articulating right now, which is John Buildings, on television and go on the upper pages without devoting classified information, but should describe the discussion in the White House and how dangerous the president of the United States is really keep his mouth shut. Or should he speak, as some people think will be a publics, Well, he's already spoken- and I dont think when you John Bolton to tell us that there's chaos in the White House right, so I was to the quaint notion that you want to keep your advice to the president to yourself, and you

use leaks as a foreign policy tool because it doesn't help our national security. What our adversary, Yes, and frankly, are allies. All see is complete upheaval and not a coherent foreign power see and not a coherent foreign policy process. That's not good for America currently the President United States planned during the week of the anniversary, nine eleven recording this on the eighteenth anniversary, nine eleven. He plan to invite leaders of the Taliban to Camp David. The fact that we're even having this discussion, let alone on such a solemn over as today's is is frankly saying the notion that you would say higher than bonkers booking loaf the notion that you would have leaders of the Taliban who live.

really have blood on their hands, for the attack on this country is, of course, that harboured allocated. They have not renounced Al Qaeda, they have not engaged in a cease fire. It is in saying that we would bring them to Camp David, a seat of the presidency. Quite frank much like the White House and frankly, give them that propaganda tool, can you imagine what they would do it that are so how to me? How do you mean it emboldens them? It legitimizes It gives them frankly a photo off. As importantly, in this instance, I imagine would be devastating to the families of those who died on nine eleven. So it is definitely beyond markers it in the same category and, I should say, pre it's a laudable goal to try and bring this conflict eighteen years on to a resolution, and to do that,

you're gonna have to deal with unsavory characters. I get that, but there is a real difference between doing that and bringing those people to Camp David and setting foot on you. I saw LISA Margo thanks for dropping by sure, don't be a stranger. Do this again great to be. Let me off the hook global happy to do that. Forget my guess this week is retired hefty and why Captain Brenda Bereavement, she served New York City. a quarter of a century and was of the many off duty, firefighters who ran into the rubble of the World Trade Center on September eleven she returned to the for months afterwards to assist in recovery efforts in retirement captain movement. Volunteers still, today leading tour at the nine Eleven Tribute Museum. We talk about her incredible journey to become the fire fighter why she ended up return to the same court room for nearly five years, how she fought fires and dealt with daily discrimination from male colleagues and also her

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The show and tell your story is one about justice and also personal perseverance so you began after going to college and after getting, I think, a masters degree current until you decide to do a thing that I also did which go to law school. You went to the law school where I teach, I know I'm anyway or loss of Asia. We were there. No, I am. I am genuinely pleased about that. I'm glad they snagged you, you do law school in fact tell us think about law? School really did not love law school. At that point, I was married to a lawyer. My father in law was very accomplish lawyer. He had his own firm, so small firm, but- so I had role models and my own family at that point of people who loved law school- maybe my husband not so much. Went to law school with the idea that I was gonna use allowed to achieve social change. That's why I want to do with my an you did

Well, I did but knowledge or Lord as a lawyer, although that entered in vibrant, so I get to laws and then I discover that in fact the law is a very conservative mindset people understand that, and I certainly didn't, because I didn't have any lawyers and my family growing up. You know and I didn't know anything about the law, really other than look. What all the great things had been done with it during the civil rights movement have Talkin Bout, the sixties and the struggle for racial justice. At that point, and you know the judges and they had turnkeys, who were so courageous and and represented people on my my late father law actually had represented. black youth who had been accused of raping a white woman. You know I mean there was a lot going on to us army in the law. Then I get to law school and in your let them I was very much let down

they want to work for a social justice organization. I want to do of represent workers for employment law stuff, that's hard to get a job. That I mean I ended up doing some immigration law and representing applicants for asylum. Pro bono basis, we could use your help now again, where the laws changed a lot in hours. I retired from the practice of law, but because you decided I went I just I struggled, I got to know managed it. I've met people who went school and then later doctors. People, their law school go into media, become Hollywood, and also to do other. You are the first person I meeting who went to law school, and decided to become a firefighter yeah. What was vying with my luggage. Do you know how hard it is to be a firefighter decided? You want to go out this can be for me. Personally generally, we get to your personal vow Manuel

somewhat. I didn't come from a family of fire fighters and I didn't have any role models of fire fighters growing up, because in a women were not firefighters and aid didn't, even allow women to take the test in New York until nineteen seventy seven. I was in law school. I knew that fire fighting is challenging, have to know a lot of things about a lot of different things. That was part of its appeal for me. Actually, to know a little bit about a lot of stuff and it's fun to figure out stuff. More importantly, really to help people, which was away that I was raised, I knew was going difficult and I knew was going to be difficult for me personally, because I had worked as a law student. I had worked on a case that involved women police officers where they were challenging the lay offs. When did you moved to New York, pre for

nineteen. Ninety, our Europe was long gone by then this is the so called fiscal crisis right and they were all these lay and Anais were laying Women disproportionately because women had been higher later because it will be discriminated against. Nobody remembers. The police department had a three percent quota on hiring women officers and those women got much higher scores on the exams and the guys had, and they would have a higher place in on early hiring, but for that discrimination. So my Father in law, was representing these women. What happened to them? Well, the name class plaintive godsend the middle of freak and nowhere in danger. area and shield really didn't know if she got in trouble of somebody would come so their lives were threatened, and their careers because they stood up,

but I knew the challenging the status quo in these non traditional jobs for women was not gonna, be a piece take. Did I understand really how incredibly if a collar was no ma foi. Here's another in nineteen seventy eight they were, how many women fire fighters in New York, city and nineteen. Seventy eight zero, zero yeah. You decide to be one yes, so so Seven was the first time that they opened up the tests to women so like I say all the time you know did manner what your physical capabilities words, a woman. You could have been olympic caliber athlete, you could not even apply you couldn't even try condemning show up. You can shop we cannot change the law and for the first time, titles seven was applied to states, municipalities that affected the fire test. So, yes, it had gone into effect earlier in the seventies but fired test.

not been given for many years there's a physical test. My man stood in a written to enter written to sew on the physical side. First described my audience. What your physical condition was back then my physical condition. Also, I was running marathons and I was training- and I was Cross country Scare, US lifting weights, and I was doing sprint son I was you know. I was a jack and I had been really my whole life hockey player. No because title nine hidden. I grew up pre, title nine, so I tried to join Little League bud The little league coach sent my mother's five dollars back in our and I was told no girls, girls dump a little league, the is very limited. Organised sports opportunities certainly very limit. Training or of competitive stuff, but you were very fit. I was reply was wave. Ok and I

carrying my ex husband up and down the stairs and our apartment building. You know trying to practice to prepare for the test, prepare for that. What was the test at that time? All kinds, goofy stuff, you noticed items were not really firefighting items, they were so abstract measures of footmen such as standing broad jump up also the walls Doesn't really work which really have to do is measure the fitness component, in the manner in which the person performs go back read the media calves from that time. It's really misleading, because even the new taught even and especially the New York Times. God things wrong about what was being ass, what was being required, but just to give a couple of examples, so they

have to analyze the city had to analyze. What are the ability is needed in order to be trained to be a fire fighters, so they come up with a list of of physical abilities. They think people need to be trained. One of amidst stamina. How do you tell first stand? they tested for stamina by doing a mile run Usually a mile run is not a test. The stamina, it's a test of speed. Could you can do twenty six of them by anaerobic, not a robot, yeah, ok, so that that summer, one, but there They want to have a cut off pass mark, so the experts say the cut off pass marks should be, I think, was ten minutes, something like that for a mile run not really fast, but in no way more fitness, most firefighters care on a mile faster than tat. In spite of the experts come up with tenants, they have a meeting of five

She says you know my daughter can run a mile in ten months. I think we should have at seven and a half minutes and that's how they came up with the pass mark for the mind. Right now I was a runner and no problem running anything around five minutes must have been a short mile. Then you know he had a jump over and eight foot wall I mean literally had jumped up pull yourself overnight for war, and they had some kind of explanation for that which had trial was shown to be totally bogus s. Not what people do we I'll throw people upon our shoulders and run up the stairs with them. We don't do that. Robot, that's what they were testing some of you, how'd you do on the test failed, as every single woman, only ninety VA showed up of the over four hundred. There were eligible to take of physical exam so by foreign women at pass written. But then it was all this press hardest Chester,

given for fire fighter. Women can't do it. They're gonna do terribly so women just in show up. I was around If only run the test was relatively easy cake. Reluctantly I mean I'm sure people still failed, but not very many people failed it. So the physical tests became these soul determinant of whether you're gonna get hired. Even what It was rank ordered, so the previous tests have been passed fail. So if you passed every part of it, you pass the test with our test. It was how you did on every element of it. So he had to pass them all and then the faster we ran the mild pyres scored such so. Even if women had passed the test, they probably would not have been hired off the list disorder

here. Are you saying that when the law required women to be able to sit for the physical test, take the physical test, they changed it to make it more difficult gap and at the trial, the civil servant personnel dive for the city was in charge of administering the test. Said. It's a hardest test we ve ever given for anything now that raises yours, indiscretions just a little bit, but what people don't under, and is said if the city had been able to prove that the test was job related, namely tested for the actual abilities need to be trained as a fire fighter. Tests would have stood right. Your complaint was not that it was too hard Now it was, they were testing for the wrong, while so they were higher in the wrong guys. You know, if you want to take this out to its logical conclusion and they would be hiring the wrong guys as well, because it really testing for the correct abilities in the right way.

Then you get a bunch of all the media was holding these public opinion polls so, like the Daily NEWS would say they would ask. Do you think so there should be lowered in order for women to be hired as firefighters nobody's going. Saying yes to have, but I wouldn't say yes to that's a leading question inside you know what it. What do you do? You think standard should be changed to have a fair test that actually test for the abilities to be determined. Yes, everyone, I think, would agree to that and that's what I was saying. But that's The way that the media was portraying the test and then you know the union was very much against my law suit. And when I won the law soup before the district court and the Eastern District of New York, namely Brooklyn, The city did not appeal. The union took the appeal up to the Supreme Court You know the union is is gone around San

These women are too weak. They're gonna be a danger to the public. They're gonna be a danger to their fellow fire fighters. Are gonna, be a danger to themselves and you know people bought that they bought that, including some of the male firefighters. So how old are you when I finally won my law suit. Nineteen. Eighty two- I was thirty one, so dependency, the lawsuit and the press is picking up on it? Did you feel like a pioneer? Did you feel like you were doing for yourself and maybe would have consequences for other people. What was going through your head, when you're going through all the struggle, sir, student of history, and I realize that people had done really hard things too, For me, the opportunities that I had as white woman growing up in the nineteen fifty is, even though they were limited and continue to be limited for women. Ok, but I realized that people had suffered a lot for other groups as well. and that this was not going to be something that just change

two overnight. I thought if they could go through all of that They could lose their lives in in all. Listen Martin Luther King Robert Kennedy, all those, people. They were in my personal experience, and I thought this is a little thing in the big scheme of things. I thought it was an important thing to not give up. It was so thing. That I thought- and I really believes is that the community and the fire service, both our advantage by having different people as their fire fighters. So women we're going to bring a different set of experiences to the job that would benefit everybody. People of color people who grew up in the city, different generations. All these different perspectives and life experiences. Third gonna help the fire department do a better job, and you know people thought this is this. Is the thinking oh lawyer,

and feminist F word so so she's, just a bra bernie from as she's gonna win. The law maybe probably not if she does he's never gonna. Take the job. She's, never gonna, be a. There is a lot of money riding on that. I wish I had taken those, so people thought you were destroying MC, appoint yes makeup, You really want to be a far because I what yes, because I was a sole name class plaintive. I was on the stand, put understand by Judge Sefton to testify If I won my lawsuit, I would quit my law practice and become a fire fighter. If I had said no, I'm not gonna do that that would have been the end of the loss, because there would have been no name class plaintiff no plaintiff I told the truth I mean I owe you know I wasn't lying under oath and like so many other people do occasionally.

When we have not an area should never encountered that New York. There's a lot of there's a lot of pressure that the lawsuit energy issue deluded DO with Brenda Bergmann versus the New York, those lot in did you ever have down moments during that ha ha play. Father in law got fired from his his client uniform fire officers union. In reality, stellar job for them? For thirty years he got fired because they thought he was a simple me in this, and you know encroaching men and in fact my Father law was not anxious for me to become a fire fighter. My ex husband did support me, but there are consequences. I mean I got death threats I to get an unlisted phone number in the days when people just did not have endless phone numbers again, I'm sure you can adapt to fight with us in a people leaving death threats on my answering machine. It was shown up in my apartment building. They were follow me around on the street, threatening me

sending me threatening letters pornography to life, this is all before I came on the job. We're going to get too when you gonna job in our lives will be lost additional injuries to both the public and to the five, but I think yeoman why people I didn't even know your we surprised at how angry people got and people might have a different point of view. It was a long time ago, and they might think are carefully that you shouldn't have a woman our fighter, but why? Why so much anger and bitterness about it? Such a challenge to the image that people have the last bastion of male supremacy? And I would say combat military, combat, similar kind of thing, and maybe to also to some extent the trades is skilled traits, but there's a sense of entitlement. in a lot of these families, that this is a job that reserve for my son, my cousin mail,

You know my mail, neighbour, etc. you know, women are competing. Guess are gonna, get all kinds of special advantages. You know, because that's what happens with the minorities even know we're not a minority you know, and then my son won't get hired as firefighter, but I think a deeper level on this I see even non firefighting. Families is a threat to their like world view. What men are still regarded as lesser, and if women can do this job than somehow it under cuts, the pedestal that we have put these men on. This is how I see it is that it is. It is real hard weathers racism or massage any were discrimination, gets people based on their religion. Its ignorance is ignored

and an idea that there are groups of people that are not as good as you. Therefore, because people have to establish a top dog hierarchy them and then so this is like the ultimate challenge: America's heroes, everybody firemen and people still say firemen, civil service term change, before even came on the job in the nineteen. Seventy, so please say firefighter. They have this idea of six foot six muscular man with a handlebar, mustache, usually white, and that's your firefighter well news. Flash male fire fighters have always been different sizes and different physical capabilities and different backgrounds in some respects, and They managed to get the job done. So why wouldn't women do so? You achieve what allowed people thought you couldn't have achieved me when the suit and everyone this? Happily ever after now, the law fixed everything right

this is another. You know to eighty two, you man before you go on to what you had he's after that. How do you feel when you found out you one yea, because I lawyers in our so lucky I had lost, rigour in the women's rights clinical and why you were you not teachers just keep giving and why you outta here will be very happy. Another well, and so Lord had taken this case, but very wisely decided add this- is way beyond what me in my students can do in the law, clinic casinos, multi million dollar case, really in terms of the resources that had to be thrown out to one on for close to five years. She brought in double voice, implanted big law from a new law, firm white, shoe law firm, they have very senior litigators, who were assigned to this case and very accomplished associates in those days all the types and all the people who are making the zero axes and all that and they could, the experts. You know which cost a lot of money, and so on

that, in a word to my favor and then when we one since the sole name class plaintive and the other women hadn't exactly flocked to our cause, the quest it was really knows only Brenda Bergmann gonna be interested in having this job, while, fortunately more forty women decided to take and passed the revised physical, ok, the new job related, physical. So now we had a group of about forty that went into the fire academy, the hats, so normally in the fire department. When you get pass the test and you go in the fire academy. Us there's a little bit. You know torture that goes on and stuff, but basically in New York City people were not fired at the fire kept me. You know they were trained and they were sent out into the field so we were there and it was like open.

season on the women I mean the guy's might as well not than there. Nobody was really looking at them or painting intention them. There were certain instructors, there being encouraged by the union and others to get rid of the women and the fire academy. So we were really abused a lot and the fire came. In fact, there are a number of instances One mama was very seriously injured. Out there are other women could have been seriously injured and killed. We were given smoke relation like I've never had not maybe nine eleven I've never had an this one on basically on feared with you know, because he wanted to do was trying to get you to drop out right. You won the lawsuit we're not done with you yet. No, no. So we're gonna get rid of you in the academy and they did succeed and getting women a few women to quit was Standing to me on some levels is

that way more women didn't quit and they just stuck with it and many women had to repeat the course I did not have to go through the fire. Count me for additional days. Graduated on time with was was very small number of us, maybe ten or twelve of us out of the forty something actually graduated on time. and again why we graduate and other people didn't graduated was nuts they capture. During the standards in the academy so that apartment was complicit in so wasn't Jesse's individuals and the union. The parlour was Changing the standards for graduation practically every single day, it was your way to fight back during that period or eat a sort of drawn out. I didn't know what was supposed to be the real deal out, cadmium in how had been done in the past, we did have some support from the Vulcan society, which was the group of african

african fire fighters and officers who have had and go through similar kinds of things and they This was at a whack, but the thinking was we just have to get through this right. We just get through this and then once we get in the firehouse will well beyond problem Sean for a year and will be some people who obviously won't like us to be there, but will get through that right so then you go to included the firehouse, much which firehouse I ask you to put it into words. Which I have to go to so I went to fire. Come that no longer exists, although the firehouse still there, Mayor Jenkins, close engine, seventeen on the lorries side underneath the Whisper bridge there. It was not great place to send me to there were for leadership there and issues with us. things they went on that didn't make

a welcoming place. Okay, so I get there and in the media wants to follow me all around. That's really helpful when you're trying to learn the job and you're already feel, like you know, an official in the guise like that either so little time passes and some of the men start testing the the waters water sinner. So they start doing. Little things, and then they start doing bigger things, and then we, the only woman at the very outset I was the only woman and that battalion, so they say All the women to fire houses ever places separate place. All medium to very busy houses. Nobody, no woman went to a slaughterhouse where very woman, was alone wherever it was, as I saw is only if you went to something like a big fire like a second alarm, the you might see another woman But then there were the women fire fighters who didn't want to see the other women in because they were told you're. Ok, but that woman down in over there she is

Good and you, our girl. You know: you're, ok, word. Whatever its you know the mentality of the token there's all kinds of US studies of this. You never ever encountered that I'm sure it. Also some of the women were not supportive of some of the other one road. being like the chief troublemaker. So Why was the academy I formed an organization? The united then firefighters, because I knew we get out in the field. There try- pick us off one by one we gotta organise and we all support one another, so we need an organization for that. So I form that and then they elect me the pros and cons Who would want to be the president of that in our trying to talk to the department about all this So then the men whom I and my fire has put me out the meal so that man, that idea by myself, make all my food by myself now more reading of penal burn jollier. I would need Tina Variety

Jennifer sandwich? This work? I wouldn't want you to know: I would not eat Pina burn jelly for a very long time as you associate it with their time, and you know this is like really again and weeds, but because we are two units in that house. One unit would go out and buy the food for the other unit and we'd all eat together. But not me I'd say: would you pick me up an apple right, the apple would come and be like the worst freaking out life. I mean an inevitable inedible, so I just stop doing that and I just stop asking them to get me anything. So I could go on for twenty four hours. You know up to twenty four hours really would nothing to eat. So then you go through a probationary period and you make it through the torture and abuse, and now everything is fine right now. It's me I want to. I don't want to know why you're listeners to think that that period was the only thing that is going on with me was in being put out of the meal I mean there's a great story about that. I was in, and

firehouse and basically the captain had ordered them not to put me on the meals only there for a month, so he was working and they had covering officer who happened to be african american- and you know coming officers, you can basically, you can get around things are sometimes, if you want to and so they went to him and they say we're on a food, Brenda Candy, and he said what you know. I mean yes, I, like that they had told me- and I was out on the apparatus for by myself crying because this would not happen to me there and I was just like while this is gonna, be career right and he went in and he said well, she can have half a my food who we always have too much food anyway, and suddenly there was enough food for me in all, but it took p like that. A new word guys like that who would stand up for the women

and other women who would stand up for the other women. So there were people who supported us and when from outside the fire department and men from outside the fire department who supported us. But you know I admire tank drained. I had crap left in my boots. I had my equipment tampered. this is a dangerous job. So the idea that you can't on your co workers to support you in a dangerous situation that that's that's not encourage. what did you ever worry when you another calls that you were perfectly safe, separate? isn't it was happening in the firehouse. I told my ex husband something has happened. Where I lose my life, I guess seriously injured. I want you to investigate the shit out of this sorry, I beat you, here, you know. Yes, I had real fears and you know when the death threats, the guy, left a message on my answer: machines, calling from the firehouse you could hear the dispatcher in the background and the fire sizes

and other women. You know their one woman was threatened to be pushed off a roof by one of our Co. Workers in the company in this stuff was very real and. women's stuck with it. Once I got on the job Molly, did they stick with it through the academy through all that stuff, but they did not resign. think there was only one woman who completed her probationary period, who subsequently and then another woman moved and she resigned, but almost all the instead, they all said in other does a good job and allow these women. This is gonna, be the best job they would ever get in terms of money and benefits and and the opportunity for community service and just so many different, is, it is appealing. So then you became firefighter after that year. Well, they fired me in

you have to go back to court again, yes to the same job, guess so first say: torture son. They fire ass. These and myself and one other woman who do. We just happened to be the two most publicly prominent women trouble angel. She had a New York Cover story, her New York magazine Cover story about her where she praised the men she worked with to the high haven't and then they put her out the mail but an unfortunate coincidence is what's been Bonanno call at the two women who didn't make it the two most of all the one on the cover of New York magazine, I'm the one who file the suit random when who didn't make. It the one who made it possible for the twenty two who did so Zeta an eye there other women who were under threat, but we were we were ordered back to the fire coming to be re, evaluated right before the end of our probationary period. We had started out getting really good evaluation,

Everything was fine and then the fire She had a meeting with all the captain's where the women were assigned and said. If you can find a reason to fire. These women are back you up. So suddenly of our evaluation, start going down the tubes. Then data and I got hold back to the camp me when I tell you Well, one guy who's back out there for retraining who is with us. He then tired rather than Goethe, what we were gone through, because he said I'm gonna get hurt here. So I'm just gonna paper at the end of that retesting. Worse, we come into work one morning, six o clock. In the morning I pass a guy sitting at the front desk and he says to me: you're gonna be fired today and I so what are you talking about? he says it's in the daily news. That's all you found out. That's how I found out can be fired and then say that I'm meanwhile, you know sailors like she didn't have the

Your background that I had eyes looked at what was happening to us, and I thought this is the perfect retaliation. I don't think I was a user annoy you out in no way or helpful yes way more than the original case itself. The retaliation case seem to me to be a lock right. Maybe my Lord inquiry that way, but you know so we we got hold. Then we got fired. Google go clean out my locker down my firehouse one of my friends from the women. Friends went with me. They clapped when I left you now just fantastic, wonderful and then we had to have a supper trial and the city kept trying to delay it. Ll edgy chief attorney had to go China, ok Judge said, I think you have a few other attorneys. We gotta go forward with this and sure enough couple months there's an I got our job back and then we had to go back to

I can me again and be evaluated again, but this time there were actually a couple of battalion So we looking at what we were doing in what was happening to us. things were more on a level than we got. Her far has changed and that was at the end from the time you decide to become a firefighter to this moment after two lawsuits? How many years had passed? see. I won the law suit in the spring of eighty two and I came on the job and fall of eighty two come up on the anniversary right now that got fired in eighty three and came back in January of nineteen. Eighty four July Here's the others are years from seventy seven, but then you should continuously in the FDA and why right for a quarter century yeah How how is now? Well the big? Was not fun do. Did you feel

once you got in the second time the job that different kind. Feeling a satisfaction than you had the first time. Initially, maybe a little bed, and not just for me, the discrimination against the first group. One fireflies did not stop Wednesday and I got our jobs back and it continues to this day. It affects women's promotional opportunities. There are Simon opportunities that stuff still goes on, not not to the degree that it did, and things have gotten a lot better, but it took we were before the judge. I'm sure judge, sifting did not back this case to go on before him for like ten years, and you know they tried with various women, they tried to re, assign them to dust jobs and things that were just pure and simple discrimination in open.

from Zeta myself. So we were the income by we, I say my lawyers and the women Firefighter Organisation. We were in court a lot for ten years and it didn't effect to every woman, but my Nothing was said if they succeed, if the fire department succeeds in making women quit and picking if the women one by one that eventually we'll get down to almost no women or no women and sure enough, they did some other things that resulted in Number of forty dropping down down down and thence, though women from the original group were retired by the time that nine eleven happened. So we only had about twenty five women as active fire fighters at the time and nine eleven out of a fire force of about ten thousand five hundred. One thousand by one's aid, and I went back to the fire houses. Zeta ended up resigning.

I says she just could not catch break and I got to be too much for her and I you know head issues I just I decided that I was going to study for promotion and I was going to stick with us. I was going to try my best to make a contra, to the fire service. Now my own department didn't want to hear anything from me, even though I had all these advanced degrees- and you know think of myself as like kind of an analytical person in some respects and like to study things they're like no answer. So I I looked outside my own department, so this is like an example of sometimes the things that you think are the worst thing that can happen to you in your life may end up being a really good thing for you. So I went outside my own department. I joined and became the President legal advisor for the National Organization of women.

fighters. I got put on National Fire Protection Association committees at a time where fifty and I really didn't purchase, pay them that certainly fire fighters didn't participate, and that might be some very high ranking chief I went all over the world, people invited me to come and speak, and I met people from all over the world and I realise that it didn't have to be this way. We know that other departments, other organizations we're doing things differently, and better and that you know we could learn from these other departments. We could make things better only for the women here, but it's always been my belief. that, when you made things better for the women and the people of color in the fire department, the white male fire fighters benefit from that in way say that you know they may not initially see Porto well.

You're. An unseen and everybody's got tunnel vision and are thinking, Exactly the same way, and so that can get your hurt. You know if you, if you, Some people have different life experiences that they bring. To this end, there actually heard their opinions actually respected. There are encouraged to to participate in the organization and an equal way which didn't happen all the time. That is, to the benefit of everybody. Operations recognizes, say no, that you need different voices in the room and the fire service, been very slow to come to this realization, some departments much faster than others. New York, like a dinosaur but

You know people recognise and they admire firefighters, for the fact that we do what we can to help people in their worst hours. In a we see everything we take people out of vat subsidies stuck in their bathtub enough. We see terrible things, people that have died. Speaking worst hours. We preferred a few times to nine. Eleven tell us about September. Eleven two thousand one your morning so I got up. I thought I was going to be working in a political campaign and go vote. It was my day off and I was having my second cup of coffee at my apartment out in Brooklyn

beautiful day and now unbelievable and is looking forward to the day. Change my care, pain assignment from lower Manhattan like two blocks away from the trade center. This is how the day went for people. Just luck. Ok Brooklyn, when at nine o clock in the morning I get a phone call from Kentucky and my friends turn on your television. That's when I see the north tower burning the South Tower and been here. I look at their nervous and who must have been small plan or a helicopter, and I'm looking. I'm thinkin. Terrorism is a huge gash, multiple floors, Fire I had been to helicopter crash is plain Bob and in a little things I looked at then I thought that's a commercial plain and genoa

pilot would have been in the Hudson River before they would have flown over there. We don't keep our gear at home. I start, I think I'll run to the headquarters in Brooklyn. Then, while I'm outside of my apartment, I hear II planes gone into the South Tower firehouse. So I run to the firehouse that I had been promoted out of over and Brooklyn is in two hundred and nineteen ladder, one hundred and five and I get there. So I can towers, burning, Brennan and there's about half a dozen of us. They come in from home. They hadn't recall this, yet no fire trucks, no equipment, no members for New York's, Fire department could have happened at a worse time, change a taurus night or was there day tours at many times double the number of firefighters got on the trucks they took all the equipment with them. So we're trying to figure out cops and shut down all the bridges and tunnels

People remember this, but you couldn't was hard to get off your journey, we're going anywhere so that you know the public transport dispatches had sent all train traffic. Swear, you know the subway, isn't everything so you couldn't get there were that my firehouse was north of the tree. center, and I thought who am I going to get to my fire house. So that's why I went to the Brooklyn firehouse and then we go next or the cops. You laugh about this. We go next door. The cops say. Could you please give us a police officer in advance to drive us over the men Manhattan, so we can help out and tourist surprises, say: ok, because normally it didn't to us. Actually they had arrested one of our members stupid stuff so say: okay, so we go back to firehouse when we were watching the television like one third of the entire world is watching the trade center real time, and why were watching the South Tower falls in fifty six minutes.

And about that time your comes a police officer with the Van now we get in all we basically have as stuff on our backs. Are codes are pants. Maybe a spare acts, nobody apparatus no radio to communicate with no tools to speak of justice. We're getting across the Brooklyn Bridge the only vehicle on bridge when we start across on inbound side, mobs people covered and dusk gone out to Brooklyn on me. Side coming back here and other or looking at them. We're. In our little van we to the Manhattan side. We are big noise nor tariff down we're in this gigantic does storm and please us turns on his Winchell wipers can see stop. The van we're gonna run over somebody. We have up or coffin theirs of chief stand in their right on Broadway.

He's got little line of officers. I walk over time. give me a slimy numerous, as Brenda Guy firefighters with his people had come over with a scattered array. There are standing on Broadway a group of my own off duty fire fighters from my own firehouse in Chelsea. They have no equipment either. No radios, no breathing apparatus snow hose No, nothing. We gonna Simon. We walked towards the trade center. Worse than anything you can imagine. I tell you you can't. You see the movies, you read the books, nope, that's not it it's so much. It was so much worse. I thought I know the people with me thought we're definitely going to die today, but woody into do. We thought that was people are trapped in there. We have to do whatever we can. We ve got no water, the water mains are all broken when the towers fall down. We have no communications, we have no tools but working.

Do whatever we can to us, we start looking for the people that might be on that up in the sides we can find- and we do this we do. We walk over toward somebody says: you're fired is parked over we're in a word church street fire trucks parked on West Street, on the other side- and I think ok, let's go over there because any on duty. People they have all the equipment will get the truck gone when put water on the fire and I'm thinkin all this. We can be useful. We get over we can get the truck started, its awful a dust, you know, won't start nobody around no equipment completely stripped off, so we continue looking for people. When did you understand how many firefighters had gone up into the buildings? before I knew there have been thousands of firefighters down there, because I

new. They had sent all the fire fighters from a hundred twenty fifth street South, all of them all those companies yeah pretty much, maybe not some of them anyway, most everybody and all the companies in Brooklyn that ringed Manhattan, Laura hand and or special units, and then people like myself just came in from home and got there. You know so everybody, There were thousands of firefighters cops and does the civilians. You know I only learned this after I start doing volunteering as a tour guide for the nine Slash eleven memorial that fifty thousand people worked in that building everyday those building, seven buildings and every single one of them was destroyed on nine eleven we're working over and were is getting dark and crazy in other people, joy, with me because it lost track of who they were supposed to be with, and all that people are other minds and

five! Twenty in the afternoon we are big noise and we were in the collapse zone for numbers. Of the World Trade Centre. So we start running down. The streets were in the dust cloud. Another dusk law really forgets about. Seven as you can forget about that, because only forty seven stories only the people who have conspiracy theories- you know don't forget about seven but no seven fell down, we could have been killed then, and we ran into a building. We got out of it. Waited for stop, came back out again. and continued working and Bob and I thought well, we have anything to eat or drink. Really here everybody's get there not right. We gotta go back to firehouse. So that's when we go back now, we discover the initially thousands of people were listed missing. I was listen missing. Initially the man whose gear I had borrowed in Brooklyn to put on Veni Broughton.

he was believed to be alive because people some turn around. You know, but it wasn't. Him owes me weren't as gear he was killed. I mean it was just So, ultimately we learn that you know the on duty, lieutenant that day from my company, Lieutenant Phil, petty from ladder twelve unto my fire, my firefighters were killed, evacuating people from the myriad hotel guess from the myriad hotel and other my fire fires were stand and only ten feet away from them survived. We lost our two highest ranking people to be killed that day bills and and began C on Wall Street and the engine and my firehouse who were standing next to it.

they ran a different direction and they all survive. You know it was just a fluke yeah, so you you work night and day busy doing stuff. Colonel look for four people can help them at one moment. Did you begin to take in the magnitude of the loss not just to your colleagues in the fire department, but the country in the city? Immediately I mean what are incredible, dangerous toxic Terrible, I mean people talk about the people, were there, remember the smell, more armor smell for months Mr designers Orient was right across the way in a very close you come out the Brooklyn bridge. Subway stop. I would come from twenty second street back then.

And into a second street, the air was sort of finally could smell little bit. They come out at the Brooklyn bridge. We would say, let's miasma like death for a long time and again the fires burn their fur. You know about six months because we had to keep going down down down in layers and woods raising the meares and nobody was killed after nine. Eleven I mean it was such an incredibly dangerous side, particularly at the beginning, things could fall on a few fell. into the pile. Not only might you in a burn up, but you could get cut to shreds because Scully everything that was air was like a field of razor blades. So. you don't people got injured, I got injured the second day. I was down the twelve, they cut my arm open. Nobody went six, some guys had driven up overnight from Maryland. You know people showed up. This is what

I really want to emphasize about the story, so it was terrible and in the fire department, I'm sorry it was totally unprepared for this. It was not. It did not have the large incident capabilities that we needed for that job and we had to call in the U Dot S fire service and the National Fire Academy and bringing people to give us a hand all these people showed up so volunteers. We add half a million people from all over the world, come to violence, to help us here in New York and Tat was amazing. Now we didn't item in the pile because they were danger to themselves and they were danger to us, but they did all kinds of things for us these people and we were incredibly grateful, even though we may not have acted like it at the time, so that was that was important. That was really important. People wanted

to one say thank you and they want to help the most of all. They want to I remember the lines of people standing, Donnie, blood, donor, blood and in no blood was really ever needed was one of the saddest moments in and images from that time. tried really really hard to find somebody alive after nine eleven, and we did not succeed. Even though people were taking a norm, threats to go in there and look right. the survivor guilt lot of my friends who survive nine eleven these days still talk about the survivor guilt, do feel it absolutely by three hundred forty three firefighters, three or four: either firefighters, twenty three New York City, police officer, thirty, seven port authority, all kinds of other uniform. People in a core officers. They all rush there and try to help them. And then all these fine

tears does well in our group who went to the fireflies memorials actually dedicated to Glenn. When it was a volunteer fire fighter went there are lost his life and then all the people were George, you know and exposed all those toxicity, so the server ever Gill is enormous, but you have to know a lot of people also talk about how out of respect for the people who are lost We can't just those of us who did survive. We can't just sit around and mope about it right. We ve given the gift of life and we need to give back. And we need to try and make the world better There was a lot of anger that came out of the out of nine eleven, especially in the fire department

and I saw my my subordinates and some of my peers sir peers. You know they just want to kill everybody. This Muslim. They wonder in bomb Afghanistan, back to the dark ages whatever you know an but also a group of people who said you know it's hate that got us to this point we need to respond with love, because more aid is not going to help so they started to do things to try and help with habitat, for humanity, or you know, after the the hurricanes down the Gulf Golfer in Japan after their tremendous disaster or after other terrorist attack like when the Boston Marathon bombing or you know the

bombings in the UK and Europe. You know a lot of people did respond in a positive way. They set up schools to educate afghan girls in no they they there is just lot of that that happen to, and so that's what a lot of us have as they take away that We are going to use what time we have left to really honour those who were lost by doing this work. Can you believe it's been eighteen years. While certain times of the year, it seems like right now seems like it just happened and then other It seems like a million years ago. No when, when all the testimony and stuff was going on down in Congress about the nine eleven survivors, getting medical care and and monitoring, and know that that raised a lot of love feelings as well, so

Sometimes you know nine eleven is still very much with us and, and it concerns me and our concern to me that how will we respond? If there's another attack will? Will fire fighters run into buildings the same way. Well, I believe that they will. although I hope that we have learned some lessons from nine eleven, You know how will people who are affected by the attacks respond? Will they respond with vengeance and hatred? nor will they respond. In ways it no good ways. You know what I think Eighteen years having gone by it astonishing to me that there are so many people who were infants, Or were born after nine eleven, some of them cannot vote. How am I I was four months old on nine eleven n and she's. Now the voter and people who

we're just born or born after nine eleven are becoming firefighters themselves and they don't the experience of having lived through it and all the sooner we talk about all the time. What we want, no curriculum to teach it yeah in New York City. There is no curriculum to teach love and others the memorial in the museum he up and you launched. I have a schoolgirl go there and that is that can be a problem in a special if you live in the Far EAST to the queen's or something what why do you volunteer there and can give tours a lot of it to do with the honouring the people who are lost and keeping their story front in people's consciousness, because there are so many people on we. You know we don't get very many people from New York and we don't get very many schools while you we'll get so many people from your there's. A lot of people from New York was never been back down. What lower manhattan-

because it's it's too raw, it's to rob, but people, I'm telling you that if you, I think it helps people to come on one of our tours and reengage by hearing a story and basically thinking back in a in a way that isn't about it. It's going to happen like right now again in and thinking about all the good things and looking at lower Manhattan and if that doesn't show the resilience of the human spirit, not just sir buildings in our hands beautiful memorial, which is the most meaningful thing to me, but also the fact that in a life has returned the schools, the residences, Thee businesses a word he no basically completely destroyed by they attack. All that stuff is back and

People are back, you know, they're doing these positive thing, so I want people when they go on my tour. I want them to honour the people. I want him to learn more about nine eleven, because there is an increasing number of people that dont noise. about nine eleven. I want them to be inspired by the people who, Every built, their lives and men are trying to do good things in the world which revised to people who are trying to seek true, just like you did he tried to become the first woman firefighter in the EFTA, and why of how to persevere in get through it? It takes a village two things I say frequently, and one is that you know I don't think people achieves, also change, no matter if its Martin Luther King or any one know glorious,

Anybody that we regard, as you know, like the paragons of civil rights movements, nobody achieves social change. By themselves. You know you need support networks, you need lots of people. Doing lots of different things were about to celebrate the hundredth anniversary of suffrage. Women suffrage did not occur because Isn T Anthony and Elizabeth Katy, Stanton and others legs Sojourner truth stood up and said all right. Give women the vote? It's got. People's minds had be changed and it took thousands more the ends of women and men all around the country to achieve that from taking a movement, That was regarded as utterly ridiculous. at a time where women were not even allowed to speak in public, and transforming that into a situation where we can have women as candidates as president that didn't occur fast

seventy two two hundred years, depending on how your counting, ok along time decades, for women even got the phone, and even then there was still a lot that need to be done in terms of true access to the vote? That's the second part one as it takes a lot of people, but the second thing is and we need to work together and this one thing is that it can take a while? So you can't expect that everything's gonna change overnight and can be found I knew you know you may move forward a little better than you move back again, but the point Is we gotta keep moving forward and if we can't talk to one another, if we can't work together despite some differences that sometimes seem insurmountable, but in the big scheme of things, are really not insurmountable, then we're in trouble as a country or in troubles a country it doesn't have to be there

way, you know it doesn't have to be all this public vitriol and it doesn't have to be all the hate that spewing out of the executive branch and it doesn't have to be that way. And now it's been that way before Joe Mccarthy and nails civil rights movement where people are being killed, then losing their jobs and in no all cars. terrible things will happen to them and they persevered, and we owe it to them too. Persevere in the struggles are, we have right now. and the justice system is such an important part of that we can not be undermining the rule of law, which is what is happening right. Now? It's so scary. To me: oh, as a lawyer and a lid again and I know someone whose life was changed by justice in a good way, not always the best way, because no judge is going to be.

wireless within twenty four hours a day. But you know is perfect as justice is. It was better than no justice and we have to fight for that. As a country, every one of us captain rendered thank you for your thank you for being on the thank you man. How are your career enormously? So half my law school thanks. So much. the conversation continues for members of the cat they insider community in this week stay tuned bonus. Brenda Bergmann tells me about the challenges of fire fighting in New York City life was like in the days after nine eleven, and a little about worth monumental. Women, Innovations dedicated to placing the first statue honouring women's history in central park to hear the bonus and the exclusive weekly Cathay insider podcast, gotta catch

our com slush inside this. Just then, you are looking at a policy of very disturbing live shot there. That is the World Trade Centre, and we have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plain has crashed into one of the towers of the world centre. So devastating has happened again unconfirmed reports. plain has crashed into one as it is now, So I'm recording today on the eighteenth anniversary of nine eleven. every anniversaries very difficult, and you can become welcomed by the tragedy that day in the terrible things have happened to so many people and country. For me, some anniversary seem especially poignant. If you were a baby born on around September. Eleventh, like my daughter, was you become an adult and this anniversary, as I discussed with Brenda Bergman,

lots and lots of people suffered on that day, but perhaps group more than your city fire department, their known here as New York's bravest and boy- did they prove it that day, three hundred forty three people in the fire department lost on nine, and that's maybe, what makes it especially moving for so many people to see the children of well who died as firefighters and nine eleven themselves being sworn in defied fires in the city that law so much eighteen years ago. It's not just the children who become firefighters or- first responders. Another variety Spiralling a former colleague Jonathan liken. to me in the southern district of New York, we overlapped Berlin, Thousands surely be Jonathan began, as in the USA into in one his daughter was born. Here's what his daughter Kelly Liken recently wrote a blog. I was

on September, eleven two thousand one in New York City that morning my mom than a public defender at the legal aid society and eight and a half months. it was me, walked I've miles away from the burning twin towers in lower Manhattan to my parents. Parliament on the upper West side. She went, The labour that afternoon, after a cat right across central park, with a police escort and lights and siren. So my mom in labor to cross the barricades. I was born at five hundred and fifteen p dot m by emergency C section at Mount Sinai Hospital Kelly goes on to say all my life people have acted to the story of my birth with wonder. Especially when they hear about my mom's journey from ground zero to the delivery room. I've known since I was little that, although something terrible happened on the day I was born, my birth gave hope to my parents in the people around them. But until I visited the nine eleven memorial for the first time the summer I didn't fully, comprehend that a whole both real and

spiritual- was blown into the earth. On the day I was born visiting the nine eleven Memorial a museum for the first time I thought of my birthday as a test across time connecting meeting Those who were lost that day go to the museum? I felt a strong need to understand the stories of the people who were lost and how to share an honor those stories it's. What did Kelly like in the turns eighteen today decide to do. She has chosen to serve as an official ambassador for the nine eleven memorial to bring anniversary in stories about that date to her cool shaker high School in Ohio Kelly Rights. As I enter my senior year, I will help to tell the story to my classmates all of were born around September, two thousand one as well it had to graduation next spring. We must all take responsibility for understanding nine eleven learning from it honouring the victims in the first responders the world a better place in their memory. Happy birthday, Kelly

always believe that nine eleven taught us some basic things. There is evil in the world, but there is also good. cowardice in the world, but also courage. There is terrible tragedy, but also and I'll, tell you sitting here. ten years on? I still believe those things to be true, and I think these children of nine eleven. If I can call them that help to pay How much good there is in the world and how the future can be brighter than the past That's it for this episode of stated thanks again to my guest captain render Bergmann if you like, we do rate and review the show. An apple pie casts or wherever you listen every party review. Helps new listeners, find the sharp send me your quest about news, politics and justice. You can treat them to me. It brought with the hashtag ass creed or you can call

leave me a message at six hundred and sixty nine, two hundred and forty seven, seven hundred and thirty, three eight thousand six hundred and sixty nine for a pretext, for you can send an email to stay tuned. Cafe, dotcom stay tuned is presented by cafe. the executive producers to marry supper. The senior for do His errand Dalton and the cafe team is Carlos hearing Julia Doyle, Calvin Lord David Philander and jeopardizing the music is by Andrew Dost. I'm prepared statement simply say: lakes, home security, easy with no contract, hidden fees or fine print for just, fifteen dollars a month, you get twenty four seven professional monitoring throughout your home and simple if uses their revolutionary video verification technology. The visually confirm that break are happening, allowing police to get to you three point five times faster, it simply saved our com, slash priests and you'll. Get free shipping in the sixty day risk free trial. That

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