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When you use it to buy a new. I found fifteen airports or any products at apple and automatically grow. Your daily cash at four point, one five percent annual percentage yield way you open a high yield savings account four apple card in the wall it up on either. of a card subject to credit approval. Savings is available to apple Cardona, subject to eligibility savings by goldman sachs bank usa. Member empty- I see terms, apply this week or start talk. We look back at an episode where we featured doktor edwin Moses olympic four hundred metre hurdle were and learn how he applied

the laws of physics to ensure that he would win gold? In that event, also, we can ask the question: can the application of science to human performance go too far, up next on startup welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture alive. Nor talk, begin right now. This starts off course addition and looking to title this episode in a rocket science. I do I have with me. Of course, gary riley. Gary new former professionals soccer player in the uk continue play was told me up crystal palace. and brightened and hold out in all premier league teens right now. So good news. Ok, ok,

a trade a lot You I mean everyone wanted you. Would that mean no one wanted to which this all of the above yeah, so a former pro as words commentator lucky to have your thanks and, of course, as always. anybody I do man until well my nerves, startup, to medium and, dare I say, actor there. There were well, you know you will be daring, so you got some gives coming up with mabel episode and we're that's go, and so we had to have you guys take a look at the the upcoming olympics olympic. Twenty twenty one. Of course they were cancelled, postponed out of twenty twenty due to the pandemic. Wisely. so Nan, so I just get a sense of what it means to compete at that level of what people to enhance their performance to get to these levels and

got a former olympian. I Moses Edwin, a walker yea minding my ass. They do I know man is like this is crazy. they are. Not only Lived. A golden It is not only the greatest heard over of all time. bowing murder. Is a earn dollar their listener? You said earlier, Is she heard her gesture avatars, no care what isn't people away or will you never know? He read it now resort every sort of burning might be an olympic support when it s going. whatever it is, a pamper is or ever was Edmund would would have a metal in it yeah. Well, let me let me flesh this. Actually, arguably, in fact not even just are the greatest forge a meter earlier of all time to come, let the gold medals thanking seventy six

You surely would have won one in nineteen. Eighty Bobby boycotted the Moscow olympics, yonder, middleton, cold war and then came back and then did again, a nineteen eighty four banning eight years. It is extraordinary, especially threat that event and you're in a marriage. As chairman of the board of united states anti doping agency, spend a whole segment on there and hope. did it. I resisted could be seen as a low entropy yoke out when we review you know. Sometimes is hanging you that I do not share the glory of worlds what's academy, so I'm so this is This is rather rex, some of this this this time of you as ever, earlier- you had a unique approach to the support to the to your true you're too, the at just tell us what me

your performance, unique and my father, to run track and heat. scribe to me what I was looking back as I'm old enough to remember all this. He described what I was looking out when I saw you in the night Seventy six nineteen, eighty four olympics, but I went up. Everybody got well the stories It's that time. I was pretty much of a nerd in high school. I studied yet I was never. I was straight out nerd I in fact they they could have had me, playing the character of because that scholar blue blew up. I was smaller than everyone else. I was pretty good right, but I wasn't superstar zombie, credible goin to achieve colleagues, I couldn't get the scholarships Y gotta, an academic scholarships gotta moorhouse yeah engineering. I was in a door degree programmes by major them physics and engineering. I'll. Have there was no track no field, so I had to really look at everything.

Only when it came to being able to train every day. So I used to the to jump, says we used to car porter report tried. around hurdles did not in the hall wade's. I have heard that I jumped in the hallway and winter time. Just on I was will be the most unlikely person to three years after going to more house with no track no bill, jumping over fences to become a limp. Exactly so, I had to reinvent everything- and I said it by religious, technically with the hurdles and also use ie using a size to really take a couple of beaters off the track. Without anybody else, no in itself The combination of sheer will going to the right school at the right time. Are you not being added You see you at I wept when I was seventeen years. All begin at our three black arm in universities. Here is where I was able the drive and now study, and they are good it was hard, so I was odd. I didn't have time for france

these girls, I was physics and track unveiled saw, that's right, that's why? But I couldn't be, I'm I'm thinking of bobby behaviour. In this example, where you didn't, the traditional path of chess training that so many other groups asters and masters did so. He had to be sort of inventive all on its own and then when you start onto the world seemed no one knew how to handle. Him is the fact that you had to invent This on your own, Contribute contributes to your unique running style when you finally ended up competing when I was a, I think, a sophomore junior in high school. They added a bet. You probably have heard of it before. I twenty four hundred lady yards shuttle wrote a relay where these things eyes. I need ten hurdles, but one runs up the track. One runs down and I jumped in as a substitute and really taught myself how to run hurdles. So that was how I started, and I think Tommy smith,

John Carlos about these sixty eight olympics. I was thirteen years old, is getting ready to reorder. I do that had a big remember. I got my whole outlook going on in the seventy two olympics, with, as it was a debacle for the united states and the seventy two a leverage there was a guy, but an amazon actually bore from uganda smashed rattling around forty seven by h. Two seconds lay one, and I am myself being that keyboard. am I went out onto the track. I had no idea that, four years later, I would go to the olympics window. They are gone mad. I am breakers wreck a bet. That's that was my art. I take on tracks. Lesson. literally take a step back you must have heads my idea about the biometrics because of your physics, background An engineering you'd have dismantled the whole events and then rebuilt it in your style. In your form, the gave you surely

Did you have an unfair advantage is what I said earlier. There is called a fair, a bad job. I told myself to run well thirteen hurdles. That was a very good high heard there. I was running like thirty six nanda I'd drop, my point, your black down so be clear, there would be two hundred and ten metre high, largely grand yacht. Yes, I want once again and then I ran from my sophomore year, my junior. I won the conference in forty seven five and I felt like I made it and track and feel the first of my junior year, which was seventy six of the plot. realize. Ah, I started to see the wit of forty six once that I was like a second, and I have a dream right from the beginning and then, when I ran a foreigner hurdles for the first time I have been doing a lot of power running cross country run is why was didn't tip top condition? All

to do with myself, how to run the hurdles. Thirty, five meters, in the first time I did it. I found myself running third thing about myself: I used in my left leg was the inner leg with voting rights rights which will stop there. Iranian closer to the curb, and then I figured out that I run aided. away from their dinner lie, which is where the badger, the land, is it up to a debate in the middle a delay, the I'm saving three to four metres for rice, which is like fifteen paid anywhere from twelve to fifteen peace. But I was Just when I made my way and what are you saying while the effective links of europe have because you start out in box right and of course you have to stand your lame because that you are hurdle all the way around. So the link these sure four hundred metres is not

center line of the width of your line, eight inches aided from the inner life. I didn't know that aid for the analyzed my endeavour was the right is close to the inner line is I could write as most people just all over the lies, and by doing that, I calculated the radius of the track and bring out that I was saving three to four meters per raised. So that's twelve I was, I was left out back. That's a long distance that, whereas the appearance of anything there's no nice so everywhere was always ask me what the secret was, but I would never talk about simple. As that I don t doubt. Why would I want it? day, but it was the combination of third these steps. I was a very good solution I ran with my inner and I leg I left leg was one: did I went over the hurdle erstwhile, so I was able to run

July woods, godly, twelve to fifteen feet and advice, and I will first thing on my mind, coming out of the box at the embassy become out of the box on reading almost on the line around start over wait. Wait! Wait! Wait! If you take thirteen steps, that's an odd number of steps right. So you're saying your left leg only took you over the first hurdle, but your right leg is going to take you over the second one now left leg every time, because they don't count to step it sets down. They don't count that what they count the following one, And I and a number of steps will have you hardly on the same leg and even number you switch. You switch why anyone wonder why he was well champion living. Only then will you thing is where we saw You go over your left leg yeah since we all run counterclockwise around the tracks that left I assure you that you will be closer to the line aid and sharing Erika I argued Landon somewhere else. Oh my god,

if any run with your right leg, for example, a body has remained within the vertical plan of forty eight answers to lines of forty eight. It is wise to have your nay swings outside of la langue. Technically, you can get eliminated from the race, it's a bow and they will call it any olympic games, because those guys who who run with their right leg going over the earth in their left leg, is what they call hooking going outside with life or even unto the plane of the hurdle. the linking of their speaking of fowls. But would you need just just just use your phone? What goes straight out and over and then your trailing leg it around me on up over so there's a whole drag motion, their rights that has width to it and that's what you're describing that's right as its exiting the way, that's right and if the exits delay that could be a penalty. But if your left leg, you don't have to worry about it and you running inside right. Let me ask you

and I will show my ignorance because I've always been just so too afraid to ask this question. You see the guy's running. and they're knocking over all hurdles being penalised for that, because every time I was heard, rumours and I see them and over the hurdles. Unlike what that guy sauce, I could do that. Knock it off the federation. Got a racing, did a trick on that, because when I was running, I think it's a eighteen to twenty pounds to table hi I heard a voice did not get over. They reduce that twelve, Do I roger kingdoms era and he wanted metals. Those guys were knocking over hurdles every time. My error big, led weights on it. What was or wait. Awhile was flat back. If you have any harder it would, they would say,

wipe a job. I have had to say in my day in both the right and we had an eye guide. Him utilise rules to keep up with all dogs, eyes, Lastly, I would like to add something This is where it says that about The electricity detract from age at times fast sahara, You covered that because you went from, but I would seemed to track We call, it taught me get say I've taught in tracking and that obviously energy rebounds back out of that some guy, the engineer. How did you come to the effect that the head in your tape the usa, about the most important thing being the take off. So there was a boy you before you do that. Maybe there's somebody listening. Those like me, who is not a threat Fear not like you three, nobody, it know cinder track and a titan is.

Rubber tracked to the tracks. You see now the rubber rise surfaces, that's what that's what he made this a trade ban in about three different names, a mind, those tart and record, and there's quite a few brandeis but they're all essentially rubber they're all have a standardized. Our are Compound that they must have ran on dirt tracks in dayton, ohio, then there are basically was there. It is again dirt tracks, hurled wooden round up tenders and stand there. May god they would? I get up and get attracted a role it down. So it's almost like god, like you, would see on it at a construction site right before it and put up everything is this road latin habits and we used these long three quarter and spied set at a problem with that is when you're behind you literally a dark for people in front of your kicking up dust and sad, gets in your teeth, your eyes. The person I ran on out of rubberized track with with great shoes, was in the nineties

six olympic games, I had. Always I'm? U run well, one His the burning, I really really felt. The difference Brand of issues that were made by ADI does enable custom made let the games and the olympic track, which was a lot bigger, just perfect Veronica. I felt like I, I just got like a ferrari. Add that with big whales, odd, that the total amount, a grip that you can get the alas density When you take off amid you could feel the energy coming out of the trap. If you put it adds of when I felt that Montreal ran around our track. I just know it was gonna, be all over. I for water for the pact for the rubber. I shreck Correia though there, like my, would like nine millimeter, something like that. Like a quarter of an hour to less than half of the nets sire. I know

was those shoes raw my feet. It was all over as far as I was concerned about the day that governance right there. This is, where being disadvantaged becomes the ultimate advantage, because we We have the accrued from on in there just giving you are the latest the best your light. Ok, I'm spoil you don't have any there and then you get it. It's like! Oh, my god now this is the elevation lay on the floor. Right now, there's a brother somewhere in africa that skiing on dirt and wind and when he gets his snout is kobe. Oh, are you I'm a fan of dance and I learned that you took ballet classes was specifically to to to help you work on your hurtling arm at some other just general interest, my roommate at moor house Josiah young doktor desire young. Now

I guess one of the first male principle dancers. At the atlanta ballet when we were in college. He was that good. He had been taking it all of his life. He would come out to the track and watched, and I would watch them compose our dances and stretch. flexibility. So I learned a tremendous amount about flexibility from him and I actually took one class over spellman imbalance and dance. He dragged me over there because he was that so many guys that wanted to take it that I went about sending because I was interested in the flexibility and stretching part of itself. I learned a lot about an hurdles and ballet berber assembler. I I consider myself morbid artists and cheese and when it comes to tat they run into hurdles but using scientific background of baden, tip top condition: abner cardio, vascular, trade has been a bad boy, good sprinter, everything's. So like you had combined mind body soul into one sort of holistic package,

had a fair way to think about this. I would say so because today But I didn't have- was a track with the requirement for track of gas via the blue island. Think think of everything. Flexibility, diet, your eye, had to use every advantage and everything I could think of, because just as today we see basketball jones, that's what they call them walk around with a basketball and baggage shorts and cut the pairs of shoes. As I was walking around with track shoes and thinking about running all day long, but we gotta take a break. So when we come back when I want to get into what your role has been in the sort of anti doping movement with regard to the purity and the efficacy of, stay with this and start on

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not come slash. What's your wi fi, more information, that's t e l, a d o c health, slash. What's your? Why. We're back startle warts addition were here with edwin, Moses olympic, great, from a period where I was in a first really getting into the olympics back in the nineteen, seventy four: that's how old? I am ninety seventy six and eighteen. Eighty four gold medals, four hundred metre hurdles and and and something I want to pick up in their first say, I am you: u one, how many consecutive races at the end If my career was one hundred and twenty two straight right,

a hundred a hundred and seven of those were finals one but it, but it was one twenty two why anyone even bother to say here too, Take the metal about me should the bar right. If anyone knows you're gonna win what to do. The runners believed that they might be able to be true in that one time oh yeah, yeah everytime I ran and somewhat this is my. They were in an olympic final and I knew that every step of the way and a lot of people thought of me when he was easy but running faster, probably running more than the other out these I had to be prepared all the time and the best you run more at her. So I was the one it was in vain all the time I was always ready for that and I was present almost ten years. Geometry. Times. Did you

break your own record in those a hundred and twenty two wins. I choose seventy six. I brought the world record and the olympic games year I was breaking my all personal records, all the way up and silly let the games, and so my personal record became the world record. my subtler. There is high on our didst thou didst, thou love. That's why you become a world record. How did I mean it becomes harder break your personal records, you might get to a bridge answers a year. If you run twenty friends is that everything can be. right for me, someone on his shoulder to try them to pursue I didn't have that's why I didn't have. I will pass over you and went away. I jobs are most. Is that just need to correct you on one thing, you said it sounds easy.

What does it look easy when you see it on television? It look like. I was surprised it away, but I had the right or at every time you look like you would just floating these days have hard. You have to run hearts made side thirteen, especially at the end, so What I had like a zone where I could run thirdly, steps slowly around, maybe the eight three forty eight eyes and if I ran past and I to run this as far as fast as I did down to forty seven latch. Just like a second rise times are generally gonna, be in there. Whether you run fast asleep It's a matter of intensity during the rise. an internal stopwatch them gap, amazed, so I did you give him You could have made this calculation and wondering if you did this, there's a calculation between how much time you spend airborne verses, how much time it's. In other words, the ark

of every has varied. the higher you go, the more time you're wasting coming back to earth before your foot hit the ground again. Is there some ideal elevation? airborne elevation above the track that maximizes your forward motion, and can I add to that and say, and is there anything that in that way, we'll just said that changes the gate itself? Yeah? That's that's really. The those two questions are really the gay, because there's only one perfect take off point whether her there's only one point- and you might I may be for me it's about nine to twelve feet away from the hurdle. good. I'm taking off for me, what I was. I never thought that I was going up into the air Aaron gone over an object. I thought I was really an exaggerated step and all I did and because I was flexible, I was able to take over the right Why I began my movement, Jeremiah leg, just

the three big eyes, but maybe three bait to agree adzes wait a minute. I went way way way way. Did you just tell me that your launch point to jump over hurdle. Is two nine feet. Yes, and did you notice that he just as the holy grail was twelve feet away from governments in dublin, love is out of it. I think for feed on the other side of the little. Basically, you would join before join that, basically, the air, Basketball rams. When I was I at that age, when I was writing, go up Jaeger with by fighting coming like a cat, I can, I can jump. I gotta play ball. Above all, I really love tracks. Basically on us. Another good what you gonna do, I'm done with your horrible as yet exactly war, but like twenty one hundred baghdad is like twenty six hundred dollar thirty five meters above cannabis,

the hurdle in front of me. So I had to concentrate on the once a golf ball. For every day about count the number steps and then wait for the herd. yeah, but I never really focused visually on the hurdle. It'll be interesting to eat. For you now, I always you know you are writing platform The thing is moving your mind is working, but I saw myself as the stationary object. saw, the hurdle is something that was moving at may runners, they say? Ok, I'm moving object out there, I'm running at that, but I saw myself as a stationary object. I hold mental frame of mind. Was the hurdle is gonna get where I wanted to be all I have to do is take off when I get there he's trying to aim at a spot is twelve or fifteen feet in front of her. This is difficult, galilee and transformation. I travelled wonder you know that it is an area that track is moving under your feet. There there it is

contact, glancing glasses. And if ryan aid or they bought up. Then I was in trouble, so I had to look at it from a completely different way that, with the strategy in the diet, I tried hard, I trained every everyone's and I'd like to say that that I I became better than people. There were much much better than me because I stayed in london and just became better than them at work. and so now tell me about at the time and even continuing decades to follow always been rumours of doping, in one way or another, doping is, I guess, the broad category of what anyone do today, cells chemically usually to the bad children, hence their performance, so in your later years in europe, I guess in retirement you become a big anti doping advocate so, just described what you're motivations where they are and why bring her back. It happened and, at the seventies

so let the games, which was my first one. I was twenty years old and from my perspective here, I am As for you beat her learn. The world are running it under forty eight seconds, and I see these women for romania and east germany and bulgaria and russia they have, one must was the bay, and I was I what the hell you now looking at them with the swimmers, the track and bill people not to mention the discus and hammer, but all the runners. If you go back and look at any book and had to seventy six olympic spreads, hundred to four hundred eight hundred fifteen hundred. It was dominated by east bloc, women and that really bothered me. One reason was because I came from from an atmosphere where I didn't even have a track so for me to take drugs and think about cheating really beyond comprehension and during that time to be honest with you. Both of the cheating was done in these block their were you us, is the united states, but most of those were like the disc is

drawers away guys drake video. It had a strange words here again the updates transports and saw as my career for grass after nineteen eighty, It really giants in the united states as we lead towards the nineteen eighty four olympic games, because it was money on the table for marketing and, as was rightly away, roads is out there that we show outfits what to do, and I began to fight it quite frankly, back in the seventies, it was an up your bottle. I was one of the few athletes. There was not afraid to say anything because we were gonna lie. Sort of like our code of honour that they have a month. I policemen, for example, was that kind of an area is Is it right doctor that you, you received death threats because of the actions that you took to change this? won't. Keep it clean. Our ties with russia, with these guys were doping right, and Europe still beaten, you're you're, not for one hundred percent you're clean.

Team, they're hopped up on whatever andra, whatever they got in them and you're still winning. Which is why, if you look very closely at the seventy six race that you took a world record, there's one dude in back giving you a fingered the entire way around I missed that on youtube, yeah, but so open the door famously lost some race to some guy in germany, and then it later beaten by fifteen metres right- and this is a widely talked about- so was he doped up when he beat you? so an accused you of doping up in order to beat him right when we go out

I think he was. He was one of my competitors that I ran against many many times. He was my arch rival, Harold smith from germany, and he was clean his whole career. He worked hard too and we both both started in the seventy six. We both better in nineteen eighty eight game, so We wish to help. So how could he? How did he beat you? I was to be honest with you, I was staying at a I gotta get out of a guy who owned a mercedes dealership in berlin and myself and the guy named Maxie buys we were out of the pool supermarkets, it is that we should have been warm it up. Is I got out through the tract got out? There lay. It was my second a third rate ever in europe- and I just wasn't ban attention- was in its answer. Your lips, I clipped the hurdle. clip the night tired when he passed me and then I'd launched at the wrong finish line, and you know it was too late to beat him and at that point they did matter. There was no winning streak or anything like that.

I yet to break a winning streak and you- and you kicked ass a week later, just to anger me that that was very Michael Jordan to say: okay, Neil Neil there's a little phrase in there. What anger? Don't you see when we, when you hear an athlete, say there, and then you look at the history of what that triggered you realize how condense that power was and there how that was brought forward. So that, for me, is a very powerful show it and automated everything about doping over the years it gets more and more sophisticated as important dodge loopholes, which I guess you just have to plug the loopholes, but also There's? No look all you do so that they don't get caught. So how do you approached this? How can you expect to be effective if this is like whack all in every next drug that gets developed? Somebody does something different. Well, there's a couple of different

roads is now there's a deterrent model that they set out with does statistical analysis in canada bases certain events weather by outline bob's that attract appeared on probabilities about these leading to take drugs of baden, that type b, that, when a competent These are what countries they come from. Why did the trainees cycle that therein we also have new tools out there? What is what they call it non analytical positive, the computer? Our neo has really helped in the fight against doping, because most people think of drug testing. As like a litmus test. You have Then you know you can. as for a lot of things like the obi, cocaine, steroids, stimulants things of that nature and those are pretty much the same. The g cms, but then we, also how about I guess, not four marijuana, then you just to get a lot of us around the world is some places, is legal,

with the bull about these, where it's quite likely that they will use it, and I found it all known, mariner every help. Anyone do any support at all can help in some sorts basically cards up the legal system in terms of dealing with, as it appears that that's what they don't. I have a right to actually raise the limits a couple of years ago and I think they almost decriminalize it in sport except for and competition. Now Dr Moses does something selective, androgen receptor, modulators I gotta talk to you, abandoned then step aside, sir. They are not that college star, but they are precursors or they stimulate the production of anabolic steroids. Some kind of war about in your body, most them our research. Drugs is a bunch of doctors from around the world that get these drugs from Laboratories in china- or

from a lab under the auspices of doing research, an egg of both these drugs and take them back them up, but they make your body produce more. Our laws and not not all of it- is the straight testosterone re Andrews. it'll stay and die on as an eighty or carolina loud, is about five or six different drugs that they now are part of the reason that the body does overproduction and stimulates muscle growth by three Now, what did I say now: analytical positive chester, looking now they're looking proteins, stairway add, and there looking like two hundred three hundred different strands, dna that they know, we'll size, and I know that not that your body could do about it to reverse sonata, look at it in the dna strands on protein, and now they are able to go up to it. I d say all your six nine two hundred now he and throwing a javelin three hundred bake. How can you a breast cancer and be pregnant? You know

investigate that actually is? What's happening, women? Who as though they have to stickler cancer. For example. Why are so It's very birth, sophisticated and an end. Those those matters are there be because there an imprint of the doping that they have time these small molecule things that they put in the body, that's the imprint that they may be affected, the needle They may not be an imprint that it makes on the body, but it causes something else to happen that the brain ass far ass is not necessarily rebuilding a blood test, but you do grant genetically out of it were right, but I Those not add a little capacities. We don't even detected drive, which is now that we did a kind of animal rights some of those research jokes are based on a gene therapy.

Is there where we are that, since some of them are some of the, how do we do tat? They are we go right through the manufacturers of somebody's drugs in a farmer's suitable houses and make agreements with them so that we see the research way in a bat we are able to figure out where we see a. We recognise it that's? What I'd do it out? As I read a story, the it sucks out their agents. We have guys from the d e and f b I and all that Brian imply ready, are says it really do a bastard, as we have a whistle blowers all over the world. So there's a lot of different elements is not just europe bloody borders very sophisticated intelligence ago them. We have to take a break out for our third saying, because we wanted just what it should do, shit and just sort of speak in it,

completely disorganized way onto the two previous segments. With your permission, you can hang on and when we come back more starts, what's the. Hey you, ve been searching for a hotel for that epic trip that you ve been planning, but there are so many options that You can't decide which one to book the two, so hotels, family, a brands, has over seventy five hundred locations with a hotel for every type of stay like Cambria hotels with offerings like rooftop bars, by like bathrooms and convenient downtown locations or of comfort in for the whole family to enjoy

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I I've always known I've kept my phone. As I said, my father ran track and he told me about it and I ran with them a few times. Four hundred meter raise with or without hurdles I Everyone agrees is the hardest race in war track and field and which would because to lie to spread the hallway. So long that you could place yourself so is this is a fair. commentary on it? Every bear the only other rights They will be equally don't you made it. Eight hundred meters awaited the running. That dialogue is a rather like one. Forty one, forty two of has become a hundred metres as bags way and agitators. You don't have to leave your lagging and go over something and then come down a spread and their rights and go over socrates. No eight hundred metre hurdle is whether they were so is the top. They call it the man hilary benn, so I'd go a little further back story again, so getting chemistry

as a kid you you did you a geek kid. In other words, today. Would be blur lacheneur gap, georgia, the term that is so tell me some other geeky things that you did you Your father was a tuskegee airman. Is that right, my dad was the sky urim and he studied the botany and biochemistry at kentucky state he wanted to be a doctor, but he could never get into the school backdoor in those days and then early busy, try, india university, a buzzing schools. He was very frustrating when its education, but I grew up looking out my dad's chemistry books, organ chemistry books. I know what I was looking out, but I was this turn of pages ambassador, algebra geometry books we had all basic pillar was colleagues books you today, maybe it'll fell back their books or they, as you know the idea that a book is something the femoral This is so anathema to me that I'm glad you're, the

benefited from kept books. We as yours was cyclic. We had cycle Britannica. Ah, every day from making a volcano, potassium chloride or whatever it is blown adopted school. I had a big here. I have also collection. As that collection, frogs snakes, I butterfly collections lots model rockets at a chemistry set at a biologist. That's why I was just Although the total nerd after my dad and I'm so loving, I was- and I I had braces and big coke bottle glasses, so I used to have to fight a lot. I would get bullets You really were uncle house house was appeals that were after I get out who are the leave like five minutes before I start running up here with my soccer above I never got caught. So that's. What are the reasons I was able to

and say, because I was afraid to run up here. To get afford. Molly's were outlined in a police are like a whole thing today. The other centre, the principle or kicked out of school, back in our day to day just a fundamental part of life in high school and effect? You know people forget that the movie back to the future that whole story like exists only. there's a boy. I've got you think of just think about how that is and what the worst today that would mean not that would be tolerated ministry of level, even if it was you, know the terror of the kids in the school. So you get all this backdrop and I'm just loving. I love hearing that, let me ask you approached the whole sort. Politically, as we described. as one generalised package rather then send out interpol to catch cheaters Is there a way, and I don't want to sound on it all new agey on you, but is there a way to?

change the culture of performance, athletics, so that No one would even think to do such a thing. Yes, doctor must regain human nature and well I was I was sitting around the edge. I don't you might have a solution. Job is mine. I was the chairman of the world anti doping agency's education committee and we realigned the education to really even at a young age as early as like three four five years old to really kind of integrate, ethics and fair play and sports at an age appropriate level. or eight to seven years old or twelve or fifteen or example. If a kid, if you put a together group of those preschool goods and you let them run across the road. Twenty metres is something you go but one kid and brought it to the others and what's the other was go off, they know. Innately was cheating and was fair, and what's that

they began to talk to them at the appropriate level. Why it's important to play the rose understand arose A blatant example. Have you gave an obvious advantage to another to buy? that's why I made that they know that right off the bat. So when you can engage them at age, appropriate levels with those principles, then, You can begin to our deter star wars, and then you have to talk about the rest as risk and rewards raw or for that out. These are willing to take in order to become a world class job can become an olympic jacobean. It may help. Arrests were up. Innovation risks The rest Frank began, I like always as I was playing around, should talk about physical risks because, as the progress because there might be some future doping thing that has no other side of it. and so they don't do this because you will lose your testicles or whatever

the only reason why I know you don't want them to do it, because it would give them an unfair advantage. The rest, it is just a byproduct, ok doktor moses, your athletic It is nothing short of stella. The campaign and your application for a twin sport is amazing, but do you not regret? Having passed, It has to be a national lots of conscious space yacht the story, as I got trapped, in nineteen. Seventy five pass the test, the goat, become a navy bomber navigators that war was still going on. I think I was a junior software junior at a more how still and recruit came by, he was in the marine corps. He said: well, it's another one of my business partners. We both got on the same day, this came up, so we were generally going vietnam- and he said I give you guys at source. We said, what's that he said you can go to bed now with m16 on your back or ethics

was there with a fixed date agree. We were supposed to go down the prince the collar data, trying to become a bob we're navigator. But this was not good enough for pilot but tab, and then that was actually gonna be the path to become an astronaut debate, because there was no black astronauts that and that we were recruiting us because we were physicists and engineers saw had that path. very interested in it and then the next year I went to the olympic games in all bets are off the prize. The airway clearly. I cannot run to the moon. It here, Dr moses looking forward, and hopefully in twenty twenty one and Tokyo, are we going to get on top of sport and made plain or are we going to Vincent repay me

sounds of previous olympians. Generally olympic sport is claimed that the standards of you, your bad player, is dead. promote the use of drugs and run him right prescriptions and it's all over the world, and our group is fortunate. Regarding EU us majority about these wanta be clay and because of the work that we ve gotta usanga. They trust us to do what is necessary to keep the playing field level for everyone about. These does positive. We have HU. I do something about it, so they have the confidence that there is some one. There is gonna keep the playing field level. That's been the greatest thing when it again, This is a word that we ve gotta. We ve actually been able to add a clean up lane build up and make a levelling and have the out. These think that there are no substance where, whether you you're a lance armstrong or whoever out you may be that there is no exceptions that we in Europe these days, we go out to everyone, including the eighty five year old little old lady, whose in our cycle

some way again that you now with this does so many there cannot be seen as positive as the road will make. Any mistakes is bessie was sought. The man saw, the various related abound grandma. The thing ran out of Burton use like a book. That's use a likelihood that said cause eighty five, lady with muscle function. People supplements Food supplements, the retainer, those with a heart breaking cases or some it was dismissed ass. You know that at go here may dismiss the a couple every now and then you get three thousand a heartbreaking test. A majority of people want to compete, claimed So can I ask the philosophical question because, as we talk about this, so you know these people take these things when their cheating for the promotion of Annabelle ism and then also

for recovery time, yet, though, let's say, for instance, You had a drug that did not promote the growth aspect, but fear decrease recovery time. It would appear that the emperor. what's killing, would that be ok if something like that were or is philosophically it's just the whole act up. Utilizing a substance that is the problem period. cycling. They use corticosteroids mostly used for aubrey to help the body we cover. As if you look at the tour de France, There is no way that you can paddle like that or do any high intensity sports, but eighty when he days in a raw without a lot of physical damage, need density, nobody's gonna, break down all those recovery. Drugs that are armas pseudo goes at our normal. A normal person would take just a field those are all band of raw bad, that certain ways that you can take them in jackson.

Why, for example, but you gotta get them into your scan, rub them on you scan dislike. You can't do just ass run and what not I use eyes. Tat was the best recovery mary, the guys with bath, and when I was doing it back in the late seventies and early eighties, everyone laughed at bay. But now mba soccer day at a bow base. All you see there eyes and eyes immediately after the guy, because I wait a minute what about the others in our work, to do that, they laughed at me two o major added degrees. Thirty minutes, so you're a part apart from the english ballistic aptly and the young girl stretching the diet you embraced, knowledge, you, you knew you were one of them. people to have one of those. Our diameters yeah, the finnish company polar. Alas, that you started to take that will attack on the track and use it that way

Seventy eight. I, when I went to bed to run about three track maids and met the finnish. My sore elbow nicky law who stay with me for almost my whole career and they showed me the monitor and then why do you? I got injured and went up in trade plays cobb earmark the finnish training centre for weeks. and they gave you know where the night is found a way to incorporate that the by training, because I knew how bar was going. I measured everything on my cross country courses around the track, and I used to be a moderate. How much time I will use between racists and I've still got all the charts reginald charge that I plodded at all. They are all absent. You were dead It's about twenty deaths load up, just to be able to count the five, but when I saved all that and printed it all up man, you gotta museum, edwin when is when is the biotech coming out?

actually we're working on it right now. I have a treatment. I don't know which way it's going to go, but we actually are working on it right now based on a book or is it? Is it just something out of just going straight to film? do you want to play young women most? I dont know if it's going That kind of movie- it really just depends bans on powers marketed in who picks it up, but I do see These are my imagination. I see says I may ask the teacher to get. I gotta go to the bathroom. Read it to me, logger, giving my clothes proud of my sites, the bona busted out the door up here with the kids chase to be isolated. at night as a part channel some of my father's spirit energy. Here we must have a couple years ago just that it's it's an honor to have you on the shout to talk with you about You did in that race that all of us were agape at

we saw you when with such grace and such boys and its greatest seated dude. And you just great to learn that you're a blur from way back and am. I would, if we may, what we look comes a little closer if you're not heavily tat by all the olympic outlet, Can we bring you back on and just about the olympics, absolutely beyond the places where we want the world comes together. Just to think about this, or that keeps us together really at some level so be greater heavy back on I haven't counted all right. We got a call it with their zine sigh evan. We gotta run We want to talk me out of here. Was it pretty clear that everyone was destined to greatness? Could reduce name is moses, numerous from the desert? Just

anyhow will call it. Was there so check good to have you? Dare I wasn't religion, pleasure, doktor, Evan Moses? There has been an honour, Neil aggress ice in your personal astrophysicist. The. The first ever it'd be a season tournament. All thirty teams going for one ran neutral mistakes or that a team's advance from the group stages. Then it's down to single elimination. It's gone. The last four standing will battle it out in las vegas baby they're, going to go all in on the hardwood season. Long bragging rights in the first ever nb, a cup hope everyone's feeling. Lucky the n b, a tournament continues on a b c d s ph tnt, star clean record

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